Wiardgroup

You got to see this, he claims he did this in 1979.

And it hooks up to a computer... and the Atari 800 was released in 1979.

http://www.cantares.on.ca/portfolio/

Keep scrolling down past the professional porfolio stuff.

--- In wiardgroup@yahoogroups.com, "Grant Richter" <grichter@...> wrote:
>
> You got to see this, he claims he did this in 1979.
> 
> And it hooks up to a computer... and the Atari 800 was released in 1979.
> 



really?
my Atari800's packaging declares it "the Official Computer of the 1984
Summer Olympics"
maybe the Atari400?   i dunno
pretty cool module though

1979 is the date Wikipedia has listed.

For what that is worth.

There were two versions, the 800 and the 800XL.

The 800 had plug in expansion boards (for like 16K of memory). The 800XL was pretty 
much and all in one unit with a whoping 64K of DRAM.

I put one in a suitcase in 198?, with battery power and a 5 inch 12 volt monitor. Kind of 
like a laptop.

People thought I was crazy, WHY would ANYONE want to carry arround a computer with 
them????? It just doesn't pay to be ahead of your time!!

It had Radio Text to speech chipset attached to the printer port. That is what I used it for, 
a fancy babble box for phonemes. Worked great as a stage repacement for tape loops 
(compared to the hassle of using 1/4" tape loops on stage).

That was slightly before the Mirage became affordable. I switched to a DSK model when I 
could afford it. The 800XL system still works and so does the Mirage.

--- In wiardgroup@yahoogroups.com, "the finger" <monkeyfinger@...> wrote:

>
> --- In wiardgroup@yahoogroups.com, "Grant Richter" <grichter@> wrote:
> >
> > You got to see this, he claims he did this in 1979.
> > 
> > And it hooks up to a computer... and the Atari 800 was released in 1979.
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> really?
> my Atari800's packaging declares it "the Official Computer of the 1984
> Summer Olympics"
> maybe the Atari400?   i dunno
> pretty cool module though
>

Maybe an Altair, They were around in '79. There were AppleIIs and Pets as well
but no Ataris that I know of.



--- In wiardgroup@yahoogroups.com, "the finger" <monkeyfinger@...> wrote:

>
> --- In wiardgroup@yahoogroups.com, "Grant Richter" <grichter@> wrote:
> >
> > You got to see this, he claims he did this in 1979.
> > 
> > And it hooks up to a computer... and the Atari 800 was released in 1979.
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> really?
> my Atari800's packaging declares it "the Official Computer of the 1984
> Summer Olympics"
> maybe the Atari400?   i dunno
> pretty cool module though
>

whoa
wait
mine is the 800 with the totally amazing 64k of RAM.   the box asks
'what will you do with all this RAM?'

__Hey Grant, would you kindly give us jonesin' junkies an update on the new oscillator and envelooper. I would like some new information in order to ground my fantasies. Also, could you explain the usage of the term anamorphic in descibing the oscillator? Thank you so very much, and please excuse my nagging. James.
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________________________________
Would Dr. Mabuce please describe and explain the patch located in the files section of wiardgroup named "bug cv+ bug". It sounds so sweet!!!!...and I have no idea what's going on. Thank you so much! James.
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Hi James,

No problem.

I can tell you the most about the Envelooper as I am almost ready to start PC board layout 
for that one.

Back in 1999, a 27C512 EPROM cost about $5, now the 27C801 EPROM, which is a 1 
megabyte unit is the same price. So all the new designs are going to use the 1 megabyte 
EPROM for storage.

The larger EPROM sizes are pin compatible with earlier pin layouts like the 27C512. You 
can actually wire a Grayhill binary encoder (from Allied for about $15) to the extra 4 
address pins on a 27C801 and plug it into a Wavefrom City board. That would give you the 
equivalent of 16 x 27C512 in the same space. That is if there are now 16 software banks 
for the Wavefrom City and Mini-wave. Dave Hylanders board is nice because it give you 
voltage controlled selectrion of 10 EPROMs, but you can fit a chip to hold 16 chips worth 
with a little kludging to any Waveform City or Mini-wave with a rotary selector switch.

The Mini-wave is a single arbitrary function generator (the least expensive ever offered). 
The Envelooper is a multiple arbitrary function generator. It has 4 outputs each of which 
will output one Mini-wave or Waveform City waveform at the same time. The Envelooper is 
setup to use these waveforms for control purposes.

The Buchla MARF is really nice, except it looks very complicated to use and understand. I 
tried to come up with a MARF that has an easy to understand user interface. I used 
something familiar, it is modelled after an ADSR. Each section of A,D,S and R is one 256 
byte Mini-wave waveform, so 4 of these play in series (set by ADSR logic) for a total of 
1024 steps, each on 4 individual tracks.

The tracks are targeted to certain functions: Track one is for pitches, track two is for 
waveshape control, track three is for VCF control and track four is for VCA control. But 
they don't have to be used that way, they are just control signals, and you can route them 
anywhere in the patch.

I tried drawing the waveforms with Wave256, with little success. I tried a program to 
convert .MID files to the control signals, that is OK, but limits you to keyboard type 
phrases.

What I needed was a way to record actual control signal from all the synths that I have ito 
the correct format time aligned on 4 channels. Just yesterday I succeded in getting such a 
system working. I can now record control signals from my ARP2600, 1603 sequencer, all 
of the Buchla stuff, Joysticks, JAGs, Steiner EVIs and anything else that makes a usable set 
of control voltage, then store them as musical control signals on 4 paralell tracks.

The Envelooper has several operating modes. In "one shot" mode it behave just like an 
ADSR, using the gate and trigger signals. When gate and trigger go high, it goes to the 
attack phase and plays out the 256 values stored on each of 4 channels, then it switches 
to the decay phase and does the same, unless gate goes low, then it jumps to release 
phase, or a new trigger will make it jump to the begining of attack. If it gets to sustain, it 
loops at sustain until gate goes low, or a new trigger comes in.

That makes it sound complicated, but it is very intuative. There are 3 loop modes, in mode 
1, it plays A-D-S-R in sequence and the time for each section is adjustable from 1 
millisecond to about 25 seconds per section with 4 knobs. In mode 2, only the attack knob 
controls the loop speed for all sections (handy when you are using it like a sequencer). 
Mode 3 plays each section in reverse. There is a switch that will link the pitches to the 
playback speed so it acts like a tape recording would. Slower playback lowers the pitches, 
and faster playback increases the pitchs.

Think of it as a sampler for the control signals that make up synthesis, rather than the 
audio output of the synthesis. That means it is parametric, which means you can goof 
around with the routing of signals, reversing signals, switching the order of signals in 
order to create new phrases from other material.

Since there are 16 x 256 = 4096 section in the new PROM, I am inthe process of 
programming all 4096 waveshapes to make some kind of usable musical "gesture". The 
need to be a bit generic, so it is not just a tape recorder, but has snippets of musically 
useful material stored and ready to use in your compositions.

No one has ever do anything like it to my knowlwedge, which is the whole point of trying 
to advance the state of the art.

I am trying to be brief, but I hope that gives some idea of the new control module in the 
pipeline.

Maybe Gary or Doc will be willing to comment on the "gestural" theory of music analysis.

I am also being inpired by the work of the "sentics" people who relate physical gesture to 
emotion. Initially, they were studying the shapes of musical instrument key action over 
time and how it related to perceived emotion. Now they seem to have gone completely 
"new wave" and generalized the idea to far too much. But the core concept is still useful.


--- In wiardgroup@yahoogroups.com, fred fain <esoterrafirma@...> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> __Hey Grant, would you kindly give us jonesin' junkies an update on the new oscillator 
and envelooper. I would like some new information in order to ground my fantasies. Also, 
could you explain the usage of the term anamorphic in descibing the oscillator? Thank you 
so very much, and please excuse my nagging. James.
> _________________________________________________________________
> Windows Live Hotmail and Microsoft Office Outlook – together at last.  Get it now.
> http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook/HA102225181033.aspx?
pid=CL100626971033
>

Hi James
--- In wiardgroup@yahoogroups.com, fred fain <esoterrafirma@...> wrote:
> Would Dr. Mabuce please describe and explain the patch located in
the files section of wiardgroup named "bug cv+ bug". It sounds so
sweet!!!!...and I have no idea what's going on. Thank you so much! James.

Whew!
This was archeology! (how many of us can listen to Giuliani and
remember that mankind existed before September 11th 2001!)
offhand, i had no idea how i patched that demo. Based on the date, i
posted it, i dug up my diary, studio, & workshop logs and re-read some
email from the late summer of 2001. The evidence is fragmentary at
best but here's what i could piece together

Out1 -> Aries 327 multimode VCF (lowpass out)->recording input
woggled CV2 -> Disturb CV1
Smooth CV1 -> Aries VCF Resonance CV in
Smooth CV2 -> Aries VCF Cutoff F CV in

the Wbug was a prototype PCB behind a temporary plastic panel at the
time of the recording. (none of my Wbugs are behind the nice
'300-blue' panels) i still own the bug that did that demo but it's
behind a metal DIY panel with my own inscrutable graphics***

i have always been captivated by the bug's performance when used as
both a sound source and a CV source for downstream audio processing.

hope that helps
-doc

*** characterized accurately and colorfully by the late lamented John
'konkuro' Mitchell as 'a chameleon with zits'
=)

___does anyone know of a reputable company that will build cutom enclosures for a wiard system.
_________________________________________________________________
Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Café. Stop by today.
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(that's the funny thing about konkuro... all you have to do is invoke
his name)
;'> 
(puts on fake red plastic devil horns)
};'>

Hi Kwote
--- In wiardgroup@yahoogroups.com, "kwote uno" <kwoter@...> wrote:
>
> So basically all digital aspects are used purely for control on your
modules
> and in no way affect the analog purity of the sound? 

 i think that the popularity of the waveform city/mini-wave and the
noise ring would disqualify Wiard from a high 'purity' ranking within
the discipline of analog eugenics*** because both designs cheerfully
report for duty in both the Audio and Digital range. 
 As for the description of the envelooper-
 Grant has clearly biased it's design toward sub-audio CV
applications. But i believe that it could easily be clocked at audio
rates (at least up into the bass range) thus yielding a signal with a
provenance of highly suspect purity.
C'est la guerre! (+ badly executed gallic shrug)
 Professor Richter's idea bucket draws often from Buchla's well and
one of the things i like most about that school of design was a
willingness to chase good ideas wherever they ran , with no regard for
the arbitrary border between 'analog' and 'digital' territory. ...
even within the same audio waveform !(vis-a-vis the MARF)

thus i confess to a fondness for impurity

(i wonder if there's a sentic gesture for 'impurity' ...other than the
trombone , of course)
};'>

(takes off cheesy devil horns , sits back down, and tries to be good)

-doc 

*** and what about the common square wave???
is it not suspiciously 'digital'?

some time ago Cary Roberts and I hacked a Miniwave to support 32x64 
wavetables instead of the regular 16x16, effectively creating a PPG 
wavetable oscillator.

if memory is now cheap, can we expect perchance a super-Miniwave in 
Wiard's future? :-)

tx

>Back in 1999, a 27C512 EPROM cost about $5, now the 27C801 EPROM, which is a 1
>megabyte unit is the same price. So all the new designs are going to 
>use the 1 megabyte
>EPROM for storage.

________________________________
By including the following information in your answer: 
"the Wbug was a prototype PCB behind a temporary plastic panel at the
time of the recording. (none of my Wbugs are behind the nice
'300-blue' panels) i still own the bug that did that demo but it's
behind a metal DIY panel with my own inscrutable graphics**: 
do you mean to suggest that that wbug has different sonic or control charictaristics than my nice blue one?

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Hi Kwote
(i want to give fair warning about hanging out with old reprobates
like me , Sheriff Mike may (with good reason) put us both in the
stockade for a night for engaging in a round of the 'digital is
sterile-analog is dirty' wild-goose chase on this ostensibly topical
forum)

but here goes...

--- In wiardgroup@yahoogroups.com, "kwote uno" <kwoter@...> wrote:
> i think a big part of that though is the
> massive amount of analog most modules carry making it hard for
digital to be
> nothing more than a nice sidekick to the sound.

speaking from a vantage point of under-the-hood, i'd characterize the
digital portion of the Waveform City/miniwave and noise ring as far
more integral to the sound than a sidekick. i'd call them both true
hybrids. 
They both exploit DACs (venerable, ultra-digital, 8-bit DACs as in the
hallowed Mirage** in Grant's personal history). The DACs are at the
last stage*** and that makes for a pretty 'staircase-y' output wave.
On the other side of the hybrid equation, they are both driven
(clocked) by very NON-digital imprecise analog circuits. But the
output audio is unequivocally 8-bit digital.
Neither portion of the circuit is subservient to the other and the
final product; the sound, is equally dependent on both the digital
component and the analog for it's character. You couldn't make an all
analog miniwave or noise ring...much less improve them by doing so.

>
> i think for me it's the feeling i get from the music and my
experience with
> digital has been disappointing but listening to all the soundclips
of the
> noisering from the old wiard page makes me gasp in terror and glee
at the
> grit, etc. it brings my way.
> correct me if i'm wrong but
> those are the feelings i've felt recently.
>

you CAN'T be wrong!
precisely because it's your -feelings- that your talking about. 
The 'terror' and 'glee' you cite aptly describe my own reactions to 
Wiard designs, They scratch my particular itch better than any but my
own DIY designs BECAUSE Grant does not eschew digital circuits simply
for the trivial and arbitrary reason that they aren't 'analog'.****

and thus 
in the hands of an inspired designer, Vive La Digitale!


i decided to engage this subject for two reasons:
1) the sonic quality of analog vs. digital argument is (IMHO) moot at
this point in time.
2) Prof. Richter has done some very creative and -artistic- things
with 'obsolete' , but 'VERY digital' circuits. He's done so with a
very high degree of success in a market where the term 'analog' is
conflated with 'excellence'.

...and with the envelooper he's about to do this even more 


This leaves a very interesting (and ultimately unanswerable) question:
What does the term 'analog' mean?

Is a 96Khz/24-bit recording of a Moog 'analog'?

Is the output of a Korg Triton 'digital' when it's physically
impossible for a loudspeaker to move in discrete steps?

It can be argued that analog is best described by birds hearing other
birds...

...and they don't care!
;'>

A discussion of this could to open enough cans of worms to take this
group beyond it's March 2007 record of 200 posts before Turkey day
...but ... instead , we should probably do our duty to revive the US
economy by getting out there and SHOPPING.

Wiard's pre-Xmas order hot line is 414 769 0791 BTW!

thanx for raising such a deep question!
-doc

**
the digital/analog hybrid model (ie DCO-> analog VCF-> analog VCA) was
a very short-lived species in the ruthless commercial evolution of the
 keyboard synth. One that, IMHO, got very short shrift in light of
it's potential. Korg & Ensoniq did some great-sounding keyboards using
this model for a very short time in the '80's. Let's face it, if
you're going to insist on your oscillators staying in equal-tempered
(et al) tune over 10 octaves (Homer Simpson shouts "Bo-oring!), then
it makes overwhelming sense to let digital do one of the jobs it does
BEST ;namely, stay rock-steady, consistently, in a huge range of
environments. The analog VCO's i've heard that track 'perfectly' with
such vast precision sound like high-quality DCO's to me anyway....i
don't see much reason to go to the trouble to make them analog. The
real fun comes when you smear that signal with some wobbly, funky
analog schmutz in later stages , downstream, with far less precision.
  i am very happy to see that Dave Smith revisited this fertile model
in his Prophet'08 offering. 
This is a hugely subjective perspective, of course. There are artists
who require high-precision analog gear to do strict tonal and
microtonal work. (Lamonte Young comes to mind) but there's plenty of
fun to be had WITHOUT that precision here amongst the groundlings.
(the muppets drummer 'animal' was always close to my heart)
 
***
ie:
http://www.wiard.com/1200/NR/Noise_Ring.html

****
Grant hardly invented this concept. The Waveform City is an evolution
of the VCDO. Digisound offered a VCDO in the late 70's, Don Buchla
experimented with them in the late 60's. The fabled PPG was a
wavetable VCDO with downstream analog processing. Modcan,and MFB offer
modern ones for sale too. 
  Also, there are many modern makers who offer variations  on the
VC-resolution DAC formula as a processor. It seems to me that the
digital/analog hybrid is  a very fertile paradigm even among analog
'purists'

i'd also be extremely interested. i'd love a solid wood cabinet, about
15u, with bevelled edges, looking somewhat like an oversized vc3, for
my frac rack modules!

maybe try and find a traditional cabinet maker in your area?

gregg

--- In wiardgroup@yahoogroups.com, fred fain <esoterrafirma@...> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> ___does anyone know of a reputable company that will build cutom
enclosures for a wiard system.
> _________________________________________________________________
> Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Café.
Stop by today.
>
http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLtagline
>

fred fain wrote:
> do you mean to suggest that that wbug has different sonic or control
> charictaristics than my nice blue one?

There have ben multiple (6? 7?) revisions of the Wogglebug circuit over
time.  The most fully-featured versions are the blue 300 series, but PCBs
exist in the DIY world for (I believe) revision 3 as well.  

Paul

Hi James

--- In wiardgroup@yahoogroups.com, fred fain <esoterrafirma@...> wrote:
>> do you mean to suggest that that wbug has different sonic or 
control charictaristics than my nice blue one?
> 

i do not mean to suggest that, and the the sonic and control 
charateristics of that particular bug  are -probably-  identical to 
more recent releases of the PCB. Only Grant would know for sure but 
based on recordings i've heard of raw Wbug sounds produced by other 
folks , i'd feel safe declaring that a bug is bug, is a bug.

i only included that detail in the interest of full disclosure (and 
because i was particularly proud of myself for finding the info in the 
dusty depths of my dyslexically organized 'archives')
i hope that it won't discourage you too much if i speculate that a 
significant portion of the sonic character of that recording was 
imparted by that lovely old Aries filter too.

ttfn,
doc

Well, actually, that tidbit does inspire some dispair. Do you have any suggestions for patching an equivalent 300 series example. Why would a borg not call up the same beast? Where do I get an aries?
________________________________
> To: wiardgroup@yahoogroups.com
> From: drmabuce@yahoo.com
> Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 06:00:01 +0000
> Subject: [wiardgroup] Re: bug cv + bug mp3
> 
> 
> Hi James
> 
> --- In wiardgroup@yahoogroups.com, fred fain  wrote:
>>> do you mean to suggest that that wbug has different sonic or
> control charictaristics than my nice blue one?
>>
> 
> i do not mean to suggest that, and the the sonic and control
> charateristics of that particular bug are -probably- identical to
> more recent releases of the PCB. Only Grant would know for sure but
> based on recordings i've heard of raw Wbug sounds produced by other
> folks , i'd feel safe declaring that a bug is bug, is a bug.
> 
> i only included that detail in the interest of full disclosure (and
> because i was particularly proud of myself for finding the info in the
> dusty depths of my dyslexically organized 'archives')
> i hope that it won't discourage you too much if i speculate that a
> significant portion of the sonic character of that recording was
> imparted by that lovely old Aries filter too.
> 
> ttfn,
> doc
> 
> 
> 
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Hi Kwote,
   i'll raise the tent flap a little and confess that when i see a 
term like 'analog purity', i am unable to resist the temptation to 
chime in with some smartass comment...at least on a site devoted to 
the broad scope of ideas from a visionary like Grant Richter. it's 
not a trait i'm very proud of and i'm genuinely glad that i have the 
guard-rails of vigilant and sage moderation here for saving me from 
my own excesses.

--- In wiardgroup@yahoogroups.com, "kwote uno" <kwoter@...> wrote:
>but i will say that the modular domain and CV
> in particular really suit my style of creation. it's why i've 
moved on from
> software and non modular hardware synths. i will say that analog 
is a HUGE
> reason i was attracted to modulars but i feel what's keeping me 
within the
> realm of it all more than the sound itself is the workflow. 
patching and
> twisting knobs vs. scrolling menus and programming patches just 
annoys the
> crap out of me. it sucks a lot of the vibe i get when creating 
music. 

...and i have to jump on this!
first, what you are describing as 'analog' is the visceral control 
interface of patchcords and knobs; the ergonomic control surface 
rather than the circuit designs that lie behind it. The 'telephone 
swichboard' panel was designed early in the last century , 
practically at the dawn of electronics itself. 
But there's something about it....
(Mr. Firman could have a LOT to say on this subject and i invite him 
to share his erudition on this too)
...that inspires me in a way that nothing else does. Mrs. Mabuse 
remarks: "When i see you with patch cords draped around your neck, i 
know you won't be back for hours'
 Now, i'm also a ProTools entusiast and i'm very familiar with the 
creatures that dwell down the Lewis Carrol rabbit-holes of TDM & 
RTAS but there is a quality to the (noisy) pots and (flaky) jacks 
that is inimitable in software. -NOT- in the sonic quality (i 
promise not to chase THAT lop-eared chimera any more on this thread) 
but 'merely' in the way that one is forced to physically interact 
with it. 
 i tell my students time, and time again, that the PROCESS of 
patching analog is equal in value to the sonic results . 
  When you touch the patchcord the music just seems to me to have a 
sound that's handmade.

> thanks for the breakdown on the wiard products. i prey you guys 
will survive
> for many years to come so i can have a chance to enjoy all of your 
great
> creations.

thanks, as for our long term survival, most of us got day jobs by 
this time.... society doesn't value the gifts that analog 
synthesists donate to the culture very much .... so as long as the 
money holds out i think we've got a few years left in us.

in the meanwhile, enjoy the trip ahead of you
-doc

Hi James
--- In wiardgroup@yahoogroups.com, fred fain <esoterrafirma@...> 
wrote:
> Well, actually, that tidbit does inspire some dispair. 
>Do you have any suggestions for patching an equivalent 300 series 
example.

the Omni has a resonance CV  input so that's probably the closest 
approximation in an 'All Blue' rig

> Why would a borg not call up the same beast?

well, strictly speaking , because resonance is not a CV parameter...
...although the old Buchla trick of adding 'homemade' VC resonance 
by patching an external VCA (ie mixolator channel) in an audio 
feedback path might be worth a try. The Borg is, after all, a very 
rich sounding VCF.

> Where do I get an aries?

Sadly, they stopped production before the majority of AH subscribers 
were born.
there's a quick blurb and some pics here:

http://www.synthmuseum.com/aries/index.html

as for obtaining one  it'd be strictly the used market.
Aries sold kits (all my modules were sold as kits) and i hot-rodded 
and expanded one of my 2600's with Aries enhancements back in the 
early 80's. i still love them madly but i couldn't tell you about 
the architecture of the AR327 multimode VCF because even as a kit, 
the core circuit was potted in epoxy....
8(
... a practice that should give any of us old farts pause before we 
wax loquacious about 'the GOOD old days' .
I've also seen some schematics floating around the infosphere but i 
don't remember where. My best guess is that it is a fairly standard 
state variable , possibly with fet-stages rather than opamps, and 
there are many state modern variable-type VCF's on the market. i 
think that filter sonic-quality is the most ludicrously over-hyped 
subject in the field anyway...
Try what you already own... you may discover something new and even 
better!

nighty night,
-doc

Hey doc,
What about the moogerfooger lowpass filter? It has cv controll of resonance. Would you explain the homemade resonance cv patch in depth?
________________________________Thanx again
James.
> To: wiardgroup@yahoogroups.com
> From: drmabuce@yahoo.com
> Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 06:44:02 +0000
> Subject: [wiardgroup] Re: bug cv + bug mp3
> 
> 
> Hi James
> --- In wiardgroup@yahoogroups.com, fred fain 
> wrote:
>> Well, actually, that tidbit does inspire some dispair.
>>Do you have any suggestions for patching an equivalent 300 series
> example.
> 
> the Omni has a resonance CV input so that's probably the closest
> approximation in an 'All Blue' rig
> 
>> Why would a borg not call up the same beast?
> 
> well, strictly speaking , because resonance is not a CV parameter...
> ...although the old Buchla trick of adding 'homemade' VC resonance
> by patching an external VCA (ie mixolator channel) in an audio
> feedback path might be worth a try. The Borg is, after all, a very
> rich sounding VCF.
> 
>> Where do I get an aries?
> 
> Sadly, they stopped production before the majority of AH subscribers
> were born.
> there's a quick blurb and some pics here:
> 
> http://www.synthmuseum.com/aries/index.html
> 
> as for obtaining one it'd be strictly the used market.
> Aries sold kits (all my modules were sold as kits) and i hot-rodded
> and expanded one of my 2600's with Aries enhancements back in the
> early 80's. i still love them madly but i couldn't tell you about
> the architecture of the AR327 multimode VCF because even as a kit,
> the core circuit was potted in epoxy....
> 8(
> ... a practice that should give any of us old farts pause before we
> wax loquacious about 'the GOOD old days' .
> I've also seen some schematics floating around the infosphere but i
> don't remember where. My best guess is that it is a fairly standard
> state variable , possibly with fet-stages rather than opamps, and
> there are many state modern variable-type VCF's on the market. i
> think that filter sonic-quality is the most ludicrously over-hyped
> subject in the field anyway...
> Try what you already own... you may discover something new and even
> better!
> 
> nighty night,
> -doc
> 
> 
> 
_________________________________________________________________
Put your friends on the big screen with Windows Vista® + Windows Live™.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/shop/specialoffers.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_CPC_MediaCtr_bigscreen_102007

Hi,

Here's a link to useful Aries Info including schematics: 
http://leinermedia.net/aries/home.html

Other sites around the net also have the Aries Schem's. I wanted one 
of these as bad in the 70's as I want a 300 Wiard now! I always 
preferred the Aries panels to moog's, and the 300 is a natural 
extension of that panel format.

The AR-314 is a LowPass VCF and the epoxy-blocked part is the expo 
converter which should not be too difficult to figure out from the 
rest of the circuit. I also believe I've seen its schematic online 
somewhere, but I don't recall where just now. 

While I agree with the idea that you should first go with what you 
have, and also that this particular filter isn't especially unique; 
making a clone of this VCF shouldn't prove too difficult for someone 
familiar with DIY. No real unobtainium, you could use a 13700 for the 
two 3080's and likely MPF-102's for the E212's.

Kind regards, Randal


--- In wiardgroup@yahoogroups.com, John <inform3r@...> wrote:
>
>     I think the Doc is right. The Aries is old stuff that hasn¹t 
been around
> for a while. They are great modules but I don¹t think there is 
anything that
> that particular Aries filter could do that can¹t be reproduced with 
readily
> available modules today, IMHO. Unless you already have a partial 
system, or
> you are a collector, I would try out the patch with what you have 
on hand.
>     Now the prototypes Grant built into Aries cases..... What I 
would give
> to get my hands on those!!!! :)
> 
>     Best Regards,
>     John Langdon
> 
> 
> On 11/18/07 1:44 AM, "drmabuce" <drmabuce@...> wrote:
> 
> >  
> >  
> >  
> > 
> > Hi James
> > --- In wiardgroup@yahoogroups.com <mailto:wiardgroup%
40yahoogroups.com> , fred
> > fain <esoterrafirma@>
> > wrote:
> >> > Well, actually, that tidbit does inspire some dispair.
> >> >Do you have any suggestions for patching an equivalent 300 
series
> > example.
> > 
> > the Omni has a resonance CV  input so that's probably the closest
> > approximation in an 'All Blue' rig
> > 
> >> > Why would a borg not call up the same beast?
> > 
> > well, strictly speaking , because resonance is not a CV 
parameter...
> > ...although the old Buchla trick of adding 'homemade' VC resonance
> > by patching an external VCA (ie mixolator channel) in an audio
> > feedback path might be worth a try. The Borg is, after all, a very
> > rich sounding VCF.
> > 
> >> > Where do I get an aries?
> > 
> > Sadly, they stopped production before the majority of AH 
subscribers
> > were born.
> > there's a quick blurb and some pics here:
> > 
> > http://www.synthmuseum.com/aries/index.html
> > 
> > as for obtaining one  it'd be strictly the used market.
> > Aries sold kits (all my modules were sold as kits) and i hot-
rodded
> > and expanded one of my 2600's with Aries enhancements back in the
> > early 80's. i still love them madly but i couldn't tell you about
> > the architecture of the AR327 multimode VCF because even as a kit,
> > the core circuit was potted in epoxy....
> > 8(
> > ... a practice that should give any of us old farts pause before 
we
> > wax loquacious about 'the GOOD old days' .
> > I've also seen some schematics floating around the infosphere but 
i
> > don't remember where. My best guess is that it is a fairly 
standard
> > state variable , possibly with fet-stages rather than opamps, and
> > there are many state modern variable-type VCF's on the market. i
> > think that filter sonic-quality is the most ludicrously over-hyped
> > subject in the field anyway...
> > Try what you already own... you may discover something new and 
even

> > better!
> > 
> > nighty night,
> > -doc 
> > 
> >  
> >
>

--- In wiardgroup@yahoogroups.com, fred fain <esoterrafirma@...> wrote:
>
> 
> Hey doc,
> What about the moogerfooger lowpass filter? It has cv controll of
resonance. Would you explain the homemade resonance cv patch in depth?
> ________________________________Thanx again
> James.

you could use the moogerfooger. the vc res on that is lush ;)

you can patch up vc resonance in any filter if you have the right
utility modules. i think it goes something like this:

filter audio out to multiple
one multiple out goes to vca and then mixer input 1
sound source to be filtered goes to mixer input 2
mixer out goes to filter audio in
cv to control res amount goes to vca cv in
second multiple out is your final audio output

it's basically a controlled feedback loop (which is essentially what
resonance is). of course if you invert the phase of the feedback path
you can do exciting things like turn your low pass filter into a hi
pass filter too!

hope that helped,

gregg

Hi James
--- In wiardgroup@yahoogroups.com, fred fain <esoterrafirma@...> wrote:
> What about the moogerfooger lowpass filter? 
>It has cv controll of resonance.

it's certainly worth a try

> Would you explain the homemade resonance cv patch in depth?

you need 1 VCA (one with an audio input attenuator is preferable) , 1
VCF (ostensibly sans resonance), and 2 SEPARATE jack mults with a
minimum of 3 jacks each


mult1 -> VCF audio in
VCF audio out -> mult2
mult2 -> VCA audio in
VCA audio out -> mult1
patch audiosignal input into mult 1
the output is at mult2

-The VCA CV becomes the resonance CV
-The VCA audio input usually needs to be dialed down to a very low level
-If the VCF already has a resonance knob, turn it down ALL the way (or
don't...if you're an untrammelled squeal fan!)
-it may be necessary to insert an inverter in the feedback path. This
depends on how the VCF and VCA were designed

there is an urban legend (probably apocryphal) that someone scoffed at
a Buchla 200 system in front of Don by ridiculing it's lack of a
resonance control. The story goes that Buchla indulgently explained
that resonance was merely the addition of an external feedback path
around a voltage controlled integrator function (aka a VCF)  and was,
therefore, a PATCH, not an on-board feature of a filter and that the
200 provided the power to implement resonance schemes of different
types which could be designed by the synthesist in accordance with
their needs, rather than one scheme hardwired-in by a dictatorial
designer.

(Mr. Tcherepninwas was obviously listening!)
;'>

cheers
-doc

Hi Randal
--- In wiardgroup@yahoogroups.com, "randaleem" <randaleem@...> wrote:
> Here's a link to useful Aries Info including schematics: 
> http://leinermedia.net/aries/home.html
> 
thanks for pointer, i had completely forgotten about this valuable
site. That's a great ( and nostalgic) photo of the staff, incl. Carl
Fravel, Dennis Colin, and Ken Perrin.
(although, amongst the contributors,  think they forgot the 'k' at the
end of John's name!)
ah well , at least the schematics are highly legible
Thanks!
=)

> The AR-314 is a LowPass VCF and the epoxy-blocked part is the expo 
> converter which should not be too difficult to figure out from the 
> rest of the circuit. I also believe I've seen its schematic online 
> somewhere, but I don't recall where just now. 
> 


My VCF is the AR327, it was a second generation design which added
HP,BP & notch outputs, also VC Q (which is particularly germane in
this thread), and a really nice dynamic 'Q-clamping' feature, which
was really quite advanced for it's time.

The epoxy-potted bits on my PCB are also different than the U6
expo-converter shown in the  314, but at it's core it appears to still
be a pretty garden-variety state variable.

-doc

Hi All,
wow!
ya see????, it's not a trick if everybody knows it!
;'>
-doc

--- In wiardgroup@yahoogroups.com, "mrboningen"
<darkflametwentythree@...> wrote:

>
> --- In wiardgroup@yahoogroups.com, fred fain <esoterrafirma@> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > Hey doc,
> > What about the moogerfooger lowpass filter? It has cv controll of
> resonance. Would you explain the homemade resonance cv patch in depth?
> > ________________________________Thanx again
> > James.
> 
> you could use the moogerfooger. the vc res on that is lush ;)
> 
> you can patch up vc resonance in any filter if you have the right
> utility modules. i think it goes something like this:
> 
> filter audio out to multiple
> one multiple out goes to vca and then mixer input 1
> sound source to be filtered goes to mixer input 2
> mixer out goes to filter audio in
> cv to control res amount goes to vca cv in
> second multiple out is your final audio output
> 
> it's basically a controlled feedback loop (which is essentially what
> resonance is). of course if you invert the phase of the feedback path
> you can do exciting things like turn your low pass filter into a hi
> pass filter too!
> 
> hope that helped,
> 
> gregg
>

Hi Doc!

You're welcome. I found the old Aries Expo schem pic I'd remembered 
seeing and posted it in the pictures section of this group's website.
But I still have not been able to find the Schem for your desirable 
version of Aries filter. Does anybody have that one? AR-327?

Kind regards, Randal

>In wiardgroup@yahoogroups.com, "drmabuce" <drmabuce@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Randal
> thanks for pointer, i had completely forgotten about this valuable
> site. 

> >I also believe I've seen its schematic online somewhere, but I 
> >don't recall where just now. 

> My VCF is the AR327, it was a second generation design which added
> HP,BP & notch outputs, also VC Q (which is particularly germane in
> this thread), and a really nice dynamic 'Q-clamping' feature, which
> was really quite advanced for it's time.
> 
> The epoxy-potted bits on my PCB are also different than the U6
> expo-converter shown in the  314, but at it's core it appears to 
> still be a pretty garden-variety state variable.
> 
> -doc
>