MOTM

Come on Paul.  Let's  see a vocoder.

Dare I drool??

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thebass [mailto:thebass@...]
> Sent: Monday, June 14, 1999 5:19 PM
> To: motm@onelist.com
> Subject: Re: [motm] Vocoder?
> 
> 
> From: thebass <thebass@...>
> 
> Come on Paul.  Let's  see a vocoder.
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> With more than 20 million e-mails exchanged daily...
> http://www.onelist.com
> ...ONElist is home to the liveliest discussions on the Internet!
>

As I said earlier, when people say they want a vocoder, they mean
a Seinheisser SE201 40 band jobbie that last year one went on VEMIA
for like $18,000.

The current 11-band stuff (Doepfer, MAM VF-11) are "just OK" because
everyone listen's to Kraftwerk "Computerworld" and THAT"S the sound
they want, not the muddy cheapo crap.

A MOTM version would be $$$, like $600-$800.

Paul S.

Hello all,

I want to purchase a vocoder, however there are not many being produced, and I don't 
want to get a vintage one... any suggestions anyone? (you ever thought of designing one 
Paul?)

1. There is one that was made by MAM called the VF-11, which I can probably find 
somewhere although they are not producing it anymore. Has anyone tried this one out?

2. Paia Vocoder, anyone?

3. Electrix Warp Factory - this one I could probably try out somewhere since they just 
released it, but maybe someone has used one and would like to comment?

4. Doepfer

I'll appreciate any insights, thanks,

Ithai B.


By the way, regarding the posts about how synthesizers are not appreciated or whatever it 
was, go see the new Star Wars movie, the score is amazing, and there are so many synth 
effects going on and sound design in general its a real treat.

-----Original Message-----
From: motm@yahoogroups.com [mailto:motm@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
ithaib
2. Paia Vocoder, anyone?

--LH--
http://www.wiseguysynth.com/larry/vocoder.htm

The vocoder thread has been covered before, but it may have been 
several years ago.

To build a vocoder with 20 bands for instance requires 40 bandpass 
filters (to do this right actually requires that each of the bandpass 
filters is actually 4 filters, this is required to get flat response 
across the band), 20 envelope followers and 20 VCAs.  There is usually 
a noise source to simulate sibilance as well.  

This is a lot of ciruitry and would be very expensive.

How many on this list would pay $1000-$2000 for a Paul S. Vocoder?

Of course there are cheaper ones out there, but SynthTech is about 
quality.  There are also many software vocoders which work very well.

JH and I have messed around with designing a MOTM-level vocoder. If you go to 
the master demo directory:
www.synthech.com/demo

and scroll down to the files that are JH_xxx.MP3 these are *7-band*, crude demos 
that are not exactly 'CD quality'. But you will get the general idea.

I.m thinking of 21 bands in a 4U tall, 19" rack. It has about 70 pots on the 
panel. The price would be around $2800 and I would have to sell 6 to break even.

Paul S.

On Thursday 26 May 2005 16:37, Paul Schreiber wrote:

> I.m thinking of 21 bands in a 4U tall, 19" rack. It has
> about 70 pots on the panel. The price would be around
> $2800 and I would have to sell 6 to break even.

I'd like to see the bag of resisters for that one. ;)

- Robert

> On Thursday 26 May 2005 16:37, Paul Schreiber wrote:
>
>> I.m thinking of 21 bands in a 4U tall, 19" rack. It has
>> about 70 pots on the panel. The price would be around
>> $2800 and I would have to sell 6 to break even.
>
> I'd like to see the bag of resisters for that one. ;)

HA! over *4800* SMT components!

Paul S.

What about a vocoder-lite?  

I still think it would be fun to play with just 2 channels in a single 
module.  And those with bigger bank acounts could buy a bunch of them 
for more bands.

Larry







--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Schreiber" <synth1@s...> wrote:
> JH and I have messed around with designing a MOTM-level vocoder. If 
you go to 
> the master demo directory:
> www.synthech.com/demo
> 
> and scroll down to the files that are JH_xxx.MP3 these are *7-band*, 
crude demos 
> that are not exactly 'CD quality'. But you will get the general idea.
> 
> I.m thinking of 21 bands in a 4U tall, 19" rack. It has about 70 
pots on the 
> panel. The price would be around $2800 and I would have to sell 6 to 
break even.
> 
> Paul S.

Very nice demos!!! Another one that makes addicted!

But 21 bands is a lot! The old Roland vocoder SVC350
has 10 bands. What about an intermediate solution, say
16 or 12 bands?

And how did you guys end up with 70 pots in your
design? Was that like 21 filter with freq and Q each
and VCA each? That would make 21x3=63 plus some
attenuation and summers I guess....   wild thing!

How about cutting that down? For example design it
with only variable Q (leave the band frequencies
fixed) in order to reduce parts and pots (and
price!!!)?

Best,

Dino





--- Paul Schreiber <synth1@...> wrote:
> JH and I have messed around with designing a
> MOTM-level vocoder. If you go to 
> the master demo directory:
> www.synthech.com/demo
> 
> and scroll down to the files that are JH_xxx.MP3
> these are *7-band*, crude demos 
> that are not exactly 'CD quality'. But you will get
> the general idea.
> 
> I.m thinking of 21 bands in a 4U tall, 19" rack. It
> has about 70 pots on the 
> panel. The price would be around $2800 and I would
> have to sell 6 to break even.
> 
> Paul S.
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> --------------------~--> 
> In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own
> computers.
> At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide!
>
http://us.click.yahoo.com/c9hWNA/3MnJAA/n1hLAA/VpLolB/TM
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->
> 
> 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
>     motm-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 


		
__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
Make Yahoo! your home page 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

I, for one would find a way to pop for the full-blown 21 bander.
Can you imagine the tweaking with that one! I bet I could turn my
dog's barking into the most... Sign me up!

Greg

Very nice demoes indeed... but $2800?! poof... I'm sure there would be a lot of buyers if 
there was a "lite" version for around $500-$600, no? Would that mean that such a version 
would not be any good?

Ithai B.

> Very nice demoes indeed... but $2800?! poof... I'm sure there would be a lot 
> of buyers if
> there was a "lite" version for around $500-$600, no? Would that mean that such 
> a version
> would not be any good?

Vocoder $2800
Vocoder Lite $700

The Vocoder (big) is for me and JH and a few friends :)

Then I could do a Lite version for the masses.

Paul S.

A 7-band circuit board could be used to build 7, 14, or 21 (or beyond...)
band vocoders. The "modular" approach, dare I say? ;-)

If the filters are adequately field-tunable, only one flavor of 7-band board
is needed. When using multiple boards, you increase the Qs and stagger the
center frequencies. Right?
--
john

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul Schreiber" <synth1@...>
To: <motm@yahoogroups.com>; "ithaib" <ithaib@...>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 11:28 PM
Subject: Re: [motm] Re: Vocoder?


> > Very nice demoes indeed... but $2800?! poof... I'm sure there would be a
lot
> > of buyers if
> > there was a "lite" version for around $500-$600, no? Would that mean
that such

> > a version
> > would not be any good?
>
> Vocoder $2800
> Vocoder Lite $700
>
> The Vocoder (big) is for me and JH and a few friends :)
>
> Then I could do a Lite version for the masses.
>
> Paul S.

Vocoder Lite! I'll buy one. (Or maybe the big one, if I win the lottery before it's done.)

 

skw

-----Original Message-----
From: motm@yahoogroups.com [mailto:motm@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Schreiber
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 10:28 PM
To: motm@yahoogroups.com; ithaib
Subject: Re: [motm] Re: Vocoder?

 

> Very nice demoes indeed... but $2800?! poof... I'm sure there would be a lot 
> of buyers if
> there was a "lite" version for around $500-$600, no? Would that mean that such 
> a version
> would not be any good?

Vocoder $2800
Vocoder Lite $700

The Vocoder (big) is for me and JH and a few friends :)

Then I could do a Lite version for the masses.

Paul S.





  _____  

Yahoo! Groups Links

*         To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/motm/
  

*         To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
motm-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:motm-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> 
  

*         Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Service.

>Vocoder $2800

Does this include a JH PolyKorg clone?

I have 4 vocoders in my setup - an electrix warp factory (24 band), korg microkorg (8 band), novation k-station (12 band), and native instruments Vokator (up 1024 bands can be analyzed). 
     The warp factory has an "order" knob that allows you to change the number of BPFs, Q aka resonance, noise generator, a gender knob for formant shifting, and a built in oscillator with pitch control so you don't need an external source except for the formant input (your voice or whatever). 
      The microkorg allows you to change the level of each of the 8 BPFs and do formant shifting. The synth engine sounds really nice too. Sounds better vocoding drums and such - I find that it just sounds better for that application.
      The novation K-Station has very little as far as control over the vocoder except for a wet/dry mix. IMHO though the lack of controls makes up for the sound quality of the vocoder. Really good transient response esp. for drums. 
     Native Instruments Vokator sounds good but since it is software based using it in real time (esp w/ 1024 freq bands to analyze) makes it pretty horrible for live performance. I use vokator more for the time strectching effects to get glitch/granular sounding samples. Really good for mangling but I have never used it to vocode my voice.
     To sum everything up the warp factory in my opinion sounds the best for vocals while the microkorg and K-station are really good for non-vocal vocoding. The microkorg and k-station sound allright with vocals but I find the warp factory is the most intelligible. Don't by Vokator for the vocoder - like I said it is great for sample mangling but not really funcional in real time vocoding situations. Hope this helps!
-Chaz

-----Original Message-----
From: ithaib <ithaib@...>
To: motm@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, 26 May 2005 01:15:44 -0000
Subject: [motm] Vocoder?


Hello all,

I want to purchase a vocoder, however there are not many being produced, and I 
don't 
want to get a vintage one... any suggestions anyone? (you ever thought of 
designing one 
Paul?)

1. There is one that was made by MAM called the VF-11, which I can probably find 

somewhere although they are not producing it anymore. Has anyone tried this one 
out?

2. Paia Vocoder, anyone?

3. Electrix Warp Factory - this one I could probably try out somewhere since 
they just 
released it, but maybe someone has used one and would like to comment?

4. Doepfer

I'll appreciate any insights, thanks,

Ithai B.


By the way, regarding the posts about how synthesizers are not appreciated or 
whatever it 
was, go see the new Star Wars movie, the score is amazing, and there are so many 
synth 
effects going on and sound design in general its a real treat.







 
Yahoo! Groups Links

I happened to be at one of the first trade shows at which the Warp Factory
was demoed, and I happened to have recently built the Pluggo vocoders, so I
specifically asked one of the Electrix reps how many bands the Warp Factory
used. The Warp Factory does not have the classic banks-of-filters vocoder
architecture. Hence the "order" knob does not change the number of filters,
although its effect is similar. Instead, the Warp Factory has a proprietary
architecture based on the same pitch-following technology that IVL developed
for their PitchRider products. (Electrix was a subsidiary of IVL.)
 
To say that Vokator is not useful for live performance "since it is software
based" is erroneous. There is nothing about software that makes it
inherently inappropriate for live performance. There are many factors that
determine the usability of software for live use, some of which have nothing
to do with the software itself (e.g., the size of the I/O buffers of the
audio interface used to move signals in and out of the software is usually
the greatest factor in the so-called "latency" of the system). The
MicroKorg's and K-Station's vocoders ARE software based, to put it to a fine
point.
 
--Adam
(owner of four vocoders, designer of two)
 
 
  _____  

From: imorpheusl@... [mailto:imorpheusl@...] 
Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2005 10:48 AM
To: motm@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [motm] Vocoder?
 
 I have 4 vocoders in my setup - an electrix warp factory (24 band), korg
microkorg (8 band), novation k-station (12 band), and native instruments
Vokator (up 1024 bands can be analyzed). 
     The warp factory has an "order" knob that allows you to change the
number of BPFs, Q aka resonance, noise generator, a gender knob for formant
shifting, and a built in oscillator with pitch control so you don't need an
external source except for the formant input (your voice or whatever). 
      The microkorg allows you to change the level of each of the 8 BPFs and
do formant shifting. The synth engine sounds really nice too. Sounds better
vocoding drums and such - I find that it just sounds better for that
application.
      The novation K-Station has very little as far as control over the
vocoder except for a wet/dry mix. IMHO though the lack of controls makes up
for the sound quality of the vocoder. Really good transient response esp.
for drums. 
     Native Instruments Vokator sounds good but since it is software based
using it in real time (esp w/ 1024 freq bands to analyze) makes it pretty
horrible for live performance. I use vokator more for the time strectching
effects to get glitch/granular sounding samples. Really good for mangling
but I have never used it to vocode my voice.
     To sum everything up the warp factory in my opinion sounds the best for
vocals while the microkorg and K-station are really good for non-vocal
vocoding. The microkorg and k-station sound allright with vocals but I find
the warp factory is the most intelligible. Don't by Vokator for the vocoder
- like I said it is great for sample mangling but not really funcional in
real time vocoding situations. Hope this helps!
-Chaz
 
-----Original Message-----
From: ithaib <ithaib@...>
To: motm@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, 26 May 2005 01:15:44 -0000
Subject: [motm] Vocoder?
Hello all,
 
I want to purchase a vocoder, however there are not many being produced, and
I 
don't 
want to get a vintage one... any suggestions anyone? (you ever thought of 
designing one 
Paul?)
 
1. There is one that was made by MAM called the VF-11, which I can probably
find 
 
somewhere although they are not producing it anymore. Has anyone tried this
one 
out?
 
2. Paia Vocoder, anyone?
 
3. Electrix Warp Factory - this one I could probably try out somewhere since

they just 
released it, but maybe someone has used one and would like to comment?
 
4. Doepfer
 
I'll appreciate any insights, thanks,
 
Ithai B.
 
 
By the way, regarding the posts about how synthesizers are not appreciated
or 
whatever it 
was, go see the new Star Wars movie, the score is amazing, and there are so
many 
synth 
effects going on and sound design in general its a real treat.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Yahoo! Groups Links
 
 
<mailto:motm-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com> 
 
 
 
 
 
  _____  

Yahoo! Groups Links
*	To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/motm/
  
*	To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
motm-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:motm-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> 
  
*	Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .