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Re: [motm] Cascading S&H

Re: [motm] Cascading S&H

2000-04-16 by davevosh@aol.com

In a message dated 00-04-15 22:44:07 EDT, you write:

<< 
 Could you cascade them so that the output of one feeds the input of the
 next, multing off the signal at each stage, to get a kind of canonic S&H
 output? You know what I mean? One trigger fires all three, and each time it
 fires, each S&H "passes on" it's 'value' to the next one in line?
 
 Does that work?
  >>



ken,
i can`t address myself to motm specifically on this one but i would think 
that given the emphasis on "open-endedness" in the designs that it would work 
fine. 
while less flexible than 3 separate s/h`s, serge/sts has a module that does 
just that, available in single and dual formats. i had the single in my old 
system and it worked well.
best,
dave v.

Re: [motm] Cascading S&H

2000-04-16 by Paul Schreiber

Actually, this a very is a cool effect very is a cool very cool is a effect.

Paul S.

----- Original Message -----
From: Tkacs, Ken <ken.tkacs@...>
To: <motm@egroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2000 9:34 PM
Subject: [motm] Cascading S&H


>
> Does anyone out there have more than one MOTM-100? I'm looking for a
> particular effect and I'm wondering if it works in real life (not just on
> paper).
>
> Say you had three '100s, dealing here only with the S&H section.
>
> Could you cascade them so that the output of one feeds the input of the
> next, multing off the signal at each stage, to get a kind of canonic S&H
> output? You know what I mean? One trigger fires all three, and each time
it
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> fires, each S&H "passes on" it's 'value' to the next one in line?
>
> Does that work?
>
>
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Re: [motm] Cascading S&H

2000-04-16 by Paul Schreiber

OK I over-simplified. (BTW: taxes done, I'm back to my normal self)

You need to "stagger" the clocks (ie delay the edges) wit respect to the
clock
into the *first* stage. JH uses cascaded 1-shots, and crude but effective
solution :)

You can also use a "multi-phase" clock (ie clocks are delayed by 90
degrees).

Paul S.

Re: [motm] Cascading S&H

2000-04-16 by Tony Allgood

Hi all,

The Roland 'The Synthesizer' book states that three S/H can be cascaded
using a common clock. Because of this I decided to do a four stage S/H
at some time in the future, but I also came upon the problem of the
aquisition time of each s/h. In other words, once the first S/H is
triggered to aquire, the next S/H in the cascade is also sampling the
new incoming signal. No good for cascaded patterns at all. However, you
could bodge this by creating delays in the triggering chain. This can
easily be achieved by simple RC circuits, the last S/H being set to
trigger before the previous one. There is no need to have a second
series of 'buffer' S/H if the delay is small enough, and the aquisition
time is short enough. The BBD has to because of the sheer number of
stages involved. With four stages, you could get away with this delay
method.

Did that make sense?

BUT it could be that the natural delay in clocking a signal through the
S/H will create enough time for the next S/H to reach the correct value
anyway. Certainly the Moog Modular page at that university would suggest
this.

Regards,

Tony Allgood  Penrith, Cumbria, UK

http://www.techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk/projects.htm

Re: [motm] Cascading S&H

2000-04-16 by jhaible

> >http://www.synthfool.com/diy/jhasr.gif
>
>
> This (Analog Shift Register) looks like another great potential MOTM
module,
> although I'd really need about six more VCOs to make it really worth
while.
>
> >How does the Serge do it ?
>
> Yeah! Good question!

I have no idea how Serge did it either, but reading the Serge catalogue has
inspired me to design the circuit shown in the adress above, and it works
nicely. The underlying idea is to pass the sampled voltage from left to
right,
but the trigger pulse from right to left, therefore no auxiliary stages are
required. As you can see, I've done it with cheap monoflops, for both the
3 sample pulses, and the 2 "guard intervalls" between these pulses.

Later someone (if memory serves that was Gene Stopp) showed a slightly
more elegant version, replacing all the monoflops with a single shift
register.

In practice (now, that would be making music, not designing circuits
(;->) ),
the great benefit of the ASR is that you have a set of exactly correlated
random step functions (if you feed in a random signal). And there is the
other application, of course, which is also explained in the Serge
catalogue:
Feed in the keyboard CV to the first stage, and the key trigger to the clock
input,
and you get canon-like structures when you control a set of 3 VCOs from
the 3 outputs.

And the best: You can even play chords with a monophonic keyboard
(or a single CV midi converter): Play a fast roll over the 3 notes you want
to use for the chord (starting with the lowest note if the keyboard has
high note priority), and then hold the chord as if you were playing a
polyphonic keyboard.
This works remarkably well in practice, the only drawback being that
you can only play 3-note chords without side effects. If you play
only two notes after releasing the previous 3 ones, the last of these
3 will continue to sound. But you can even use this to your advantage,
because you have a means of mixing the polyphonic and the "canon"
playing style.

JH.

Re: [motm] Cascading S&H

2000-04-17 by Roy Tate

I'm surprised that noone has mentioned this:

Use a Saw-tooth wave into a MOTM-700 VC-Switch to
generate some different switch points, and plug a
MOTM-800 with sustain turned up into a mult, and from
there into both "B" inputs of the 700.  Use the 700
outputs for two of the 3 clock sources, and the direct
signal from the VCO or LFO (perhaps the pulse out] for
the third signal.  I must confess that I haven't tried
it yet ... but I do have 3 MOTM S/H units, a 700 and a
MOTM-320 (among others!).

Regards,

Roy

--- "Tkacs, Ken" <ken.tkacs@...> wrote:
> 
> Does anyone out there have more than one MOTM-100?
> I'm looking for a
> particular effect and I'm wondering if it works in
> real life (not just on
> paper).
> 
> Say you had three '100s, dealing here only with the
> S&H section.
> 
> Could you cascade them so that the output of one
> feeds the input of the
> next, multing off the signal at each stage, to get a
> kind of canonic S&H
> output? You know what I mean? One trigger fires all
> three, and each time it
> fires, each S&H "passes on" it's 'value' to the next
> one in line?
> 
> Does that work?
> 
> 

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RE: [motm] Cascading S&H

2000-04-17 by Dave Bradley

The problem with this is that the S&H samples on the falling edge of the
clock, not the rising edge. Your outputs from the 700 are more akin to gates
than triggers.

Dave Bradley
Principal Software Engineer
Engineering Animation, Inc.
daveb@...
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roy Tate [mailto:roy_tate@...]
> Sent: Monday, April 17, 2000 2:38 PM
> To: motm@egroups.com
> Subject: Re: [motm] Cascading S&H
>
>
> I'm surprised that noone has mentioned this:
>
> Use a Saw-tooth wave into a MOTM-700 VC-Switch to
> generate some different switch points, and plug a
> MOTM-800 with sustain turned up into a mult, and from
> there into both "B" inputs of the 700.  Use the 700
> outputs for two of the 3 clock sources, and the direct
> signal from the VCO or LFO (perhaps the pulse out] for
> the third signal.  I must confess that I haven't tried
> it yet ... but I do have 3 MOTM S/H units, a 700 and a
> MOTM-320 (among others!).
>
> Regards,
>
> Roy
>
> --- "Tkacs, Ken" <ken.tkacs@...> wrote:
> >
> > Does anyone out there have more than one MOTM-100?
> > I'm looking for a
> > particular effect and I'm wondering if it works in
> > real life (not just on
> > paper).
> >
> > Say you had three '100s, dealing here only with the
> > S&H section.
> >
> > Could you cascade them so that the output of one
> > feeds the input of the
> > next, multing off the signal at each stage, to get a
> > kind of canonic S&H
> > output? You know what I mean? One trigger fires all
> > three, and each time it
> > fires, each S&H "passes on" it's 'value' to the next
> > one in line?
> >
> > Does that work?
> >
> >
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites.
> http://invites.yahoo.com
>
>
>

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