MOTM

>From: "thomas white" <djthomaswhite@...>
>
>OK, call me ignant but what modules are necessary for the MOTM to be a
>guitar synth? I know the envelope follower will generate the gate but will
>it generate the pitch CV as well? Pre-amp for sure. What else in what
order,
>etc! Help please


hello all, hello ignant (sorry:-)
the basis for a guitar synth would be a pitch to voltage convertor- to
convert the musical signal into a useable CV, a gate trigger - for your VCA,
and an envelope follower - so you have dynamic control from the guitar. then
all you need is stick a synth on the other end, connect all the gate cv
stuff as usual and put the envelope follower output into a filter cv or use
it to modulate your VCA. i believe paul's forthcoming envelope follower
module will have all the necessary functions. if you can't wait, have a mess
around with a korg MS-03, (i have one) the pitch to voltage conversion is
pretty bad, but you can get a great Bootsy bass sound with just that and the
#410 filter
which reminds me - i got an old german autoharp - like a zither but with
chord dampers on sprung bars across the strings - maybe i ought to get
around to putting pickups on it Bootsy autoharp - now there's a first..?
oh yeah, and pitch to voltage convertors hate having chords played into them
(damn...)

cheers
paul b

Yes, it generates both a CV (based on waveform amplitude of *all* the
strings) and a GATE and
a TRIG.

<Paul S>

----- Original Message -----
From: thomas white <djthomaswhite@...>
To: <motm@onelist.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 1:30 AM
Subject: [motm] Guitar synthm MOTM style?


> From: "thomas white" <djthomaswhite@...>
>
> OK, call me ignant but what modules are necessary for the MOTM to be a
> guitar synth? I know the envelope follower will generate the gate but will
> it generate the pitch CV as well? Pre-amp for sure. What else in what
order,

> etc! Help please
>
> Thomas (Can't wait for the lag processor) White
>
>
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In a message dated 03/23/2000 8:21:35 AM, synth1@... writes:

<< Yes, it generates both a CV (based on waveform amplitude of *all* the

strings) and a GATE and

a TRIG. >>

But to clarify, per the original message, it will not do pitch to CV 
conversion, correct?

Ivan

Correct. Pitch-to-voltage is like this "Holy Grail" that 20 years of
research still can't
do a decent job.

Paul S.

----- Original Message -----

From: <ivancu@...>
To: <motm@onelist.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 12:10 PM
Subject: Re: [motm] Guitar synthm MOTM style?


> From: ivancu@...
>
>
> In a message dated 03/23/2000 8:21:35 AM, synth1@... writes:
>
> << Yes, it generates both a CV (based on waveform amplitude of *all* the
>
> strings) and a GATE and
>
> a TRIG. >>
>
> But to clarify, per the original message, it will not do pitch to CV
> conversion, correct?
>
> Ivan
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds!  Get rates as low as 2.9%
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>
>

Perhaps a more complete solution would involve engineering a guitar with
outs for each individual string.  But then, you're talking about 6-note
polyphony for your typical guitar.  Then you could play chords without
problem, assuming 1 envelope follower / VCO / VCA per string.  I think?

--PBr

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Paul Schreiber [SMTP:synth1@...]
> Sent:	Thursday, March 23, 2000 5:23 AM
> To:	motm@onelist.com
> Subject:	Re: [motm] Guitar synthm MOTM style?
> 
> From: "Paul Schreiber" <synth1@...>
> 
> Yes, it generates both a CV (based on waveform amplitude of *all* the
> strings) and a GATE and
> a TRIG.
> 
> <Paul S>
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: thomas white <djthomaswhite@...>
> To: <motm@onelist.com>
> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 1:30 AM
> Subject: [motm] Guitar synthm MOTM style?
> 
> 
> > From: "thomas white" <djthomaswhite@...>
> >
> > OK, call me ignant but what modules are necessary for the MOTM to be a
> > guitar synth? I know the envelope follower will generate the gate but
> will
> > it generate the pitch CV as well? Pre-amp for sure. What else in what
> order,
> > etc! Help please
>

Nope. You still would have to have a pitch to voltage converter for each
string, assuming you need to generate 1V/Oct cvs to make a VCO track
correctly. If you are not worried about using VCOs, you could just use the
envelope follower / preamp solution to mangle your guitar sound with
filtering, envelopes, and other signal processing.

Matter of fact, if you used an ebow you could make the string act pretty
much like an oscillator. So there's a lot you can do with a preamp and
envelope follower, you just can't make a VCO track.

Dave Bradley
Principal Software Engineer
Engineering Animation, Inc.
daveb@...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brousseau, Paul E (Paul) [mailto:noise@...]
> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 12:48 PM
> To: 'motm@onelist.com'
> Subject: RE: [motm] Guitar synthm MOTM style?
>
>
> From: "Brousseau, Paul E (Paul)" <noise@...>
>
> Perhaps a more complete solution would involve engineering a guitar with
> outs for each individual string.  But then, you're talking about 6-note
> polyphony for your typical guitar.  Then you could play chords without
> problem, assuming 1 envelope follower / VCO / VCA per string.  I think?
>
> --PBr
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:	Paul Schreiber [SMTP:synth1@...]
> > Sent:	Thursday, March 23, 2000 5:23 AM
> > To:	motm@onelist.com
> > Subject:	Re: [motm] Guitar synthm MOTM style?
> >
> > From: "Paul Schreiber" <synth1@...>
> >
> > Yes, it generates both a CV (based on waveform amplitude of *all* the
> > strings) and a GATE and
> > a TRIG.
> >
> > <Paul S>
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: thomas white <djthomaswhite@...>
> > To: <motm@onelist.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 1:30 AM
> > Subject: [motm] Guitar synthm MOTM style?
> >
> >
> > > From: "thomas white" <djthomaswhite@...>
> > >
> > > OK, call me ignant but what modules are necessary for the MOTM to be a
> > > guitar synth? I know the envelope follower will generate the gate but
> > will
> > > it generate the pitch CV as well? Pre-amp for sure. What else in what
> > order,
> > > etc! Help please
> >
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds!  Get rates as low as 2.9%
> Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees.  Apply NOW!
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>
>

At 10:38 AM 03/23/2000 -0000, "Paul b" <vulture.squadron@...> wrote:
>>From: "thomas white" <djthomaswhite@...>
>>
>>OK, call me ignant but what modules are necessary for the MOTM to be a
>>guitar synth? I know the envelope follower will generate the gate but will
>>it generate the pitch CV as well? Pre-amp for sure. What else in what
>>order, etc! Help please

As with any other modular synth application, there's no "right answer", but
presumably the pitch->CV output will control a VCO, the envelope follower
output will control a VCA, and the gate output will trigger an EG that
controls a VCF.  That sounds like a minimum requirement to me.

>if you can't wait, have a mess
>around with a korg MS-03, (i have one) the pitch to voltage conversion is
>pretty bad, but you can get a great Bootsy bass sound with just that and the
>#410 filter

I have both both a Korg MS-03 (dedicated pitch->CV box) and MS-20
(monosynth with "external signal processor" including envelope follower and
pitch->CV).  In my experience, the MS-03 is pretty worthless, BUT the
MS-20's pitch->CV function is pretty decent and very usable as long as you
have "clean" technique (if you're using it as a guitar synth) - I've even
found it to adequately track a bass guitar signal (low frequencies
understandably take longer to "lock in").  Having highpass & lowpass
filters, and a signal amplifier at the signal input helps, too, since that
lets you cut out harmonics that might interfere with the tracking and lets
you tailor the signal level for optimum response.  The main problem with
the MS-20 is that the CV output is V/Hz (which could be what accounts for
its good performance), so it's not MOTM-compatible without an exponential
converter (unfortunately I don't have a MS-02).  I'd buy a clone of the
MS-20 pitch->CV section with an exponential converter built-in for V/oct
response in a heartbeat!

>oh yeah, and pitch to voltage convertors hate having chords played into them
>(damn...)

... unless you're looking for the "Baba O'Riley" effect.  Semi-random
arpegiation from chords through a pitch->CV unit can be very fun.

	-Doug
	 ceres@...

The Roland GR series uses a "hex pickup" and 6 pitch-to-cv converters.
Success
is based on your playing style. It takes months and months of practice to
even get
above awful.

If you want to hear great guitar synth playing, get Pat Metheney's "Offramp"
CD.
Uses a $45,000 (yes, $45,000) custom rig with a Synclavier. Whee Ha!

Paul S.

Again jumping on the expound-on-random-idea wagon, if "normal" guitars track
better than bass guitars due to lock-in time on low frequencies, then could
you take a guitar, string all the strings with the highest pitch string (I
don't know the teminology for that), fit it with higher-range pickups, and
send each string to an individually tuned pitch->CV for the whole range of
notes?  And can I ask a more run-on question?

It seems to me that the advantage of this type of control over a keyboard is
in the fact that the pitch controlling CV is inherantly "noisey" and
unstable, compared to the stability of your typical keyboard.  Is this
people's expirience?

--PBr

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Doug Pearson [SMTP:ceres@...]
> Sent:	Thursday, March 23, 2000 11:03 AM
> To:	motm@onelist.com
> Subject:	Re: [motm] Guitar synthm MOTM style?
> 
> From: Doug Pearson <ceres@...>
> 
> I have both both a Korg MS-03 (dedicated pitch->CV box) and MS-20
> (monosynth with "external signal processor" including envelope follower
> and
> pitch->CV).  In my experience, the MS-03 is pretty worthless, BUT the
> MS-20's pitch->CV function is pretty decent and very usable as long as you
> have "clean" technique (if you're using it as a guitar synth) - I've even
> found it to adequately track a bass guitar signal (low frequencies
> understandably take longer to "lock in").  Having highpass & lowpass
> filters, and a signal amplifier at the signal input helps, too, since that
> lets you cut out harmonics that might interfere with the tracking and lets
> you tailor the signal level for optimum response.  
>

In a message dated 03/23/2000 1:40:59 PM, synth1@... writes:

<< Pitch-to-voltage is like this "Holy Grail" that 20 years of

research still can't

do a decent job. >>

I remember using one of the old IVL units years ago with an Emu modular.... 
you never really knew what you were going to get.  Seemed to work ok with 
"pure" tones such as a flute.  No surprise there.  Just don't play too fast!

Ivan

> Again jumping on the expound-on-random-idea wagon, if "normal"
> guitars track
> better than bass guitars due to lock-in time on low frequencies,
> then could
> you take a guitar, string all the strings with the highest pitch string (I
> don't know the teminology for that), fit it with higher-range pickups, and
> send each string to an individually tuned pitch->CV for the whole range of
> notes?

Precisely this approach has been taken by several guitar synths in the past.
Of course, guitar wankers who tried it complained about the "feel" of the
skinny strings being weird.

Dave Bradley
Principal Software Engineer
Engineering Animation, Inc.
daveb@...

The only halfway decent systems I've heard about in the last few years
involve a custom guitar, that does not use pitch to voltage at all. To get
around the inherent lag time problem, a laser shines down each string and is
interrupted by the finger, allowing its position to be calculated and a
voltage or midi output derived. It senses sideways position for pitch
bending also.

Dave Bradley
Principal Software Engineer
Engineering Animation, Inc.
daveb@...

> I remember using one of the old IVL units years ago with an Emu
> modular....
> you never really knew what you were going to get.  Seemed to work ok with
> "pure" tones such as a flute.  No surprise there.  Just don't
> play too fast!
>
> Ivan
>

Well, it's not polyphonic or a guitar synth, but I have something called
a Fairlight Voicetracker that works really well. It takes an audio
signal in and outputs midi and CV.  The CV out gives the normal pitch,
gate, and envelope as well as qualities such as brightness and purity.
You can hook it up to a computer monitor and tailor the tracking
response. I find it really useful to sing lead lines on my synth. The
best net info I have found is at:
http://www.ghservices.com/gregh/fairligh/voicetra.htm

ivancu@... wrote:

> From: ivancu@...
>
>
> In a message dated 03/23/2000 1:40:59 PM, synth1@... writes:
>
> << Pitch-to-voltage is like this "Holy Grail" that 20 years of
>
> research still can't
>
> do a decent job. >>
>
> I remember using one of the old IVL units years ago with an Emu
> modular....
> you never really knew what you were going to get.  Seemed to work ok
> with
> "pure" tones such as a flute.  No surprise there.  Just don't play too
> fast!
>
> Ivan
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>

>From: "Paul Schreiber" <synth1@...>
>
>The Roland GR series uses a "hex pickup" and 6 pitch-to-cv converters.
>Success
>is based on your playing style. It takes months and months of practice to
>even get
>above awful.

Yeah, but to be fair, so does any musical instrument. There seems to be
this prevalent attitude that synths are supposed to make us sound good
immediately, which is why synth manufacturors went to the glorified home
organ console route. Any instrument takes practice time, there isn't any
substitute. About a year ago, I picked up a Yamaha WX-7 wind controller,
the thing that looks like a Clarinet designed by Escher. I haven't ever
really played a wind instrument before, and I pretty much sound like crap
on this thing, but it's pretty exciting because it opens up a whole new
area of expression on synths. I guess my message is that, just 'cause you
play guitar real good, don't expect that there won't be a learning curve
jumping to gtr synth.
>
>If you want to hear great guitar synth playing, get Pat Metheney's "Offramp"
>CD.
>Uses a $45,000 (yes, $45,000) custom rig with a Synclavier. Whee Ha!

Agreed. Though Bill Frisell got some really nice sounds from a GR-series
synth back in the '80's, and I KNOW for a fact he didn't have anywhere near
45G's invested in that.

OB MOTM: I've had this really nice swirly oscillator feedback patch
wooshing around for the last day or so, 3 osc's fm'ing each other through
slow LFO-controlled VCA's, all through a 320. God, I love my modular!

____________________________________________
Dave Trenkel : improv@...
Minus Web Site: http://listen.to/minusmusic
Minus MP3's: http://www.mp3.com/-minus-
____________________________________________

A tape head doesn't do anything special for you over a pickup. Here's one
way a P/V converter can work:

1. Filter out as many harmonics as possible so you can look at just the
fundamental frequency.
2. Use a zero crossing detector to analyze 1 or two complete cycles (here's
where the lag comes from).
3. Decide from the zero crossings your best guess as to what 1 cycle is
(here's where multiple chords and finger muffs freak it out). Use a high
speed clock for a time base to count how long it lasts.
4. Convert to either a midi note number or analog voltage through a software
or firmware lookup table.
5. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Dave Bradley
Principal Software Engineer
Engineering Animation, Inc.
daveb@...

> From: hodad1@...
>
> On a similar note:
>
> In an old Roland Users Group mag, there's an interview with Skunk Baxter
> talking about guitar synths.  He mentions experimenting with using tape
> heads as pickups for the strings.
> I'm not knowledgeable enough to know if a tape head can function as a
> pitch-cv converter or
> exactly what they were doing, but it sounded interesting--particularly if
> you've got a bunch of old dictaphones lying around.
>
> tomr

Another good, but obscure CD that is 100% guitar synth is Mark Dwane 
"Angels, Aliens, and Archetypes". New-Age-y, lots of FM/D-50 stuff but
the entire CD is guitar synth. To be exact, the synths are all MIDI modules
and the guitar outputs MIDI. Can't read what kind/brand: looks like the
letters Q M F X in a stylized logo on the side. Nothing in the credits.

Paul S.

On a similar note:

In an old Roland Users Group mag, there's an interview with Skunk Baxter
talking about guitar synths.  He mentions experimenting with using tape
heads as pickups for the strings.
I'm not knowledgeable enough to know if a tape head can function as a
pitch-cv converter or
exactly what they were doing, but it sounded interesting--particularly if
you've got a bunch of old dictaphones lying around.

tomr

----- Original Message -----
From: Brousseau, Paul E (Paul) <noise@...>
To: <motm@onelist.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 2:41 PM
Subject: RE: [motm] Guitar synthm MOTM style?


> From: "Brousseau, Paul E (Paul)" <noise@...>
>
> Again jumping on the expound-on-random-idea wagon, if "normal" guitars
track
> better than bass guitars due to lock-in time on low frequencies, then
could
> you take a guitar, string all the strings with the highest pitch string (I
> don't know the teminology for that), fit it with higher-range pickups, and
> send each string to an individually tuned pitch->CV for the whole range of
> notes?  And can I ask a more run-on question?
>
> It seems to me that the advantage of this type of control over a keyboard
is
> in the fact that the pitch controlling CV is inherantly "noisey" and
> unstable, compared to the stability of your typical keyboard.  Is this
> people's expirience?
>
> --PBr
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Doug Pearson [SMTP:ceres@...]
> > Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 11:03 AM
> > To: motm@onelist.com
> > Subject: Re: [motm] Guitar synthm MOTM style?
> >
> > From: Doug Pearson <ceres@...>
> >
> > I have both both a Korg MS-03 (dedicated pitch->CV box) and MS-20
> > (monosynth with "external signal processor" including envelope follower
> > and
> > pitch->CV).  In my experience, the MS-03 is pretty worthless, BUT the
> > MS-20's pitch->CV function is pretty decent and very usable as long as
you
> > have "clean" technique (if you're using it as a guitar synth) - I've
even
> > found it to adequately track a bass guitar signal (low frequencies
> > understandably take longer to "lock in").  Having highpass & lowpass
> > filters, and a signal amplifier at the signal input helps, too, since
that
> > lets you cut out harmonics that might interfere with the tracking and
lets

> > you tailor the signal level for optimum response.
> >
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds!  Get rates as low as 2.9%
> Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees.  Apply NOW!
> http://click.egroups.com/1/936/3/_/529958/_/953840358/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

Cool web site! The Voicetracker was one of those few boxes appearing over
the years that did not seem to have a reputation for sucking.

Dave Bradley
Principal Software Engineer
Engineering Animation, Inc.
daveb@...

-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Vehorn [mailto:ben@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 2:06 PM
To: motm@onelist.com
Subject: Re: [motm] Guitar synthm MOTM style?


Well, it's not polyphonic or a guitar synth, but I have something called a
Fairlight Voicetracker that works really well. It takes an audio signal in
and outputs midi and CV.  The CV out gives the normal pitch, gate, and
envelope as well as qualities such as brightness and purity. You can hook it
up to a computer monitor and tailor the tracking response. I find it really
useful to sing lead lines on my synth. The best net info I have found is at:
http://www.ghservices.com/gregh/fairligh/voicetra.htm

In a message dated 03/23/2000 3:12:07 PM, ben@... writes:

<< Well, it's not polyphonic or a guitar synth, but I have something called
a Fairlight Voicetracker that works really well. >>

Lucky you!  I remember when that came out, but never saw one in person.  I 
have a Roland VP-70 coming, which is MIDI only but does a similar function.  
Will be interesting to see how well that works with my Pulse and SidStation.  
Of course I could always use a MIDI to CV converter to get back to MOTM land 
<G>

Ivan

In a message dated 03/23/2000 3:41:11 PM, daveb@... writes:

<< The Voicetracker was one of those few boxes appearing over

the years that did not seem to have a reputation for sucking. >>

A good thing considering its price!  I knew a person at Fairlight, and they 
made very cool stuff, but unfortunately the company went where the money was 
and got away from synthesis and sampling and into audio for video.  They're 
still in business in the land down under.

Ivan

I hate to trash a piece of equipment, but I had a vp-70 and it was
absolutely horrible for tracking and instrument other than an unfiltered
vco it rarely tracked anything accurately (guitar, bass, synth, voice)
and constantly jumped around in pitch no matter how I set the pitch bend
options. I hastily sold it to buy my first MOTM-300 -Nate

ivancu@... wrote:

> From: ivancu@...
>
>
> In a message dated 03/23/2000 3:12:07 PM, ben@... writes:
>
> << Well, it's not polyphonic or a guitar synth, but I have something
> called
> a Fairlight Voicetracker that works really well. >>
>
> Lucky you!  I remember when that came out, but never saw one in
> person.  I
> have a Roland VP-70 coming, which is MIDI only but does a similar
> function.
> Will be interesting to see how well that works with my Pulse and
> SidStation.
> Of course I could always use a MIDI to CV converter to get back to
> MOTM land
> <G>
>
> Ivan
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>

>I hate to trash a piece of equipment, but I had a vp-70 and it was
>absolutely horrible for tracking and instrument other than an unfiltered
>vco it rarely tracked anything accurately (guitar, bass, synth, voice)
>and constantly jumped around in pitch no matter how I set the pitch bend
>options. I hastily sold it to buy my first MOTM-300 -Nate
>
>ivancu@... wrote:
>
I saw a performance once that used the vp-70 (I think, is it the small
white table-top Roland pitch-to-MIDI box?) in a way that really blew my
mind. It was a piece by bay area keyboardist/composer Chris Brown called
Snakecharmer. The setup for the piece was this: a mic plugged into the
pitch-to-MIDI controlling a TX-81z plugged into a few effects then into an
am and speaker. Brown would whistle into the mic, and the speaker was
positioned right behing his head, so the mic would pick up the output of
the TX, creating a feedback loop except the feedback was being converted to
MIDI! It created these streams of very fast notes ripping around the room,
and he controlled the amount of feedback by moving the mic relative to the
speaker, and occaisionaly whistling again when it started to die out. It
was a totally amazing piece, really worked musically as well as a chunk of
experimental weirdness. Feedback rules!

____________________________________________
Dave Trenkel : improv@...
Minus Web Site: http://listen.to/minusmusic
Minus MP3's: http://www.mp3.com/-minus-
____________________________________________

the vp-70 is a black 1U rackmount unit -Nate

improv@... wrote:

> From: improv@...
>
> >I hate to trash a piece of equipment, but I had a vp-70 and it was
> >absolutely horrible for tracking and instrument other than an
> unfiltered
> >vco it rarely tracked anything accurately (guitar, bass, synth,
> voice)
> >and constantly jumped around in pitch no matter how I set the pitch
> bend
> >options. I hastily sold it to buy my first MOTM-300 -Nate
> >
> >ivancu@... wrote:
> >
> I saw a performance once that used the vp-70 (I think, is it the small
>
> white table-top Roland pitch-to-MIDI box?) in a way that really blew
> my
> mind. It was a piece by bay area keyboardist/composer Chris Brown
> called
> Snakecharmer. The setup for the piece was this: a mic plugged into the
>
> pitch-to-MIDI controlling a TX-81z plugged into a few effects then
> into an
> am and speaker. Brown would whistle into the mic, and the speaker was
> positioned right behing his head, so the mic would pick up the output
> of
> the TX, creating a feedback loop except the feedback was being
> converted to
> MIDI! It created these streams of very fast notes ripping around the
> room,
> and he controlled the amount of feedback by moving the mic relative to
> the
> speaker, and occaisionaly whistling again when it started to die out.
> It
> was a totally amazing piece, really worked musically as well as a
> chunk of
> experimental weirdness. Feedback rules!
>
> ____________________________________________
> Dave Trenkel : improv@...
> Minus Web Site: http://listen.to/minusmusic
> Minus MP3's: http://www.mp3.com/-minus-
> ____________________________________________
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>

>the vp-70 is a black 1U rackmount unit -Nate

So it's not the same unit, but I imagine it's the same technology. The cool
thing about this piece is that it took advantage of the unit's inability to
accurately track pitch and made something completely different.

____________________________________________
Dave Trenkel : improv@...
Minus Web Site: http://listen.to/minusmusic
Minus MP3's: http://www.mp3.com/-minus-
____________________________________________

In a message dated 03/23/2000 6:37:56 PM, nate@... writes:

<< I hate to trash a piece of equipment, but I had a vp-70 and it was
absolutely horrible for tracking and instrument other than an unfiltered
vco it rarely tracked anything accurately (guitar, bass, synth, voice)
and constantly jumped around in pitch no matter how I set the pitch bend
options. >>

Cool!  I was somewhat expecting that and anticipate using it for very weird 
vocoder and "synth attempting to track" voice effects.  Sometimes bad is 
good. <G>

Ivan

In a message dated 03/23/2000 6:51:08 PM, improv@... writes:

<< The setup for the piece was this: a mic plugged into the
pitch-to-MIDI controlling a TX-81z plugged into a few effects then into an
am and speaker.  >>

Thanks for the inspiration!

Ivan

On the Roland VP-70 note, I also have a HEAVILY processed Kalimba (African 
thumb piano) and hope to trigger some MIDI-based sounds with it.  Figured it 
was easier (and cheaper) than using some of the Pavo stuff and my own 
circuitry.

Ivan

You can buy hexaphonic pickups to retrofit a guitar that give you six
separate outs. While a Freq-to-volts converter is a problem, you could still
do a lot of cool things like stick a sub-octave multiplexer on each string,
envelope follower, filters, and run them all through a triple res filter.

Returning to Wendy Carlos' "Secrets of Synthesis," she demonstrates the
Fairlight Voicetracker on that album. It seems to track even conversational
voice very well.

 -----Original Message-----
From: 	Ben Vehorn [mailto:ben@...] 
Sent:	Thursday, 23 March, 2000 3:06 PM
To:	motm@onelist.com
Subject:	Re: [motm] Guitar synthm MOTM style?

 << Message: Untitled Attachment >> Well, it's not polyphonic or a guitar
synth, but I have something called
a Fairlight Voicetracker that works really well. It takes an audio
signal in and outputs midi and CV.  The CV out gives the normal pitch,
gate, and envelope as well as qualities such as brightness and purity.
You can hook it up to a computer monitor and tailor the tracking
response. I find it really useful to sing lead lines on my synth. The
best net info I have found is at:
http://www.ghservices.com/gregh/fairligh/voicetra.htm

After a Nik Turner (Hawkwind) concert I had the unusual oportunity to meet 
Del Dettmar (also of Hawkwind fame)... (At the time I was still just a Guitar 
player who really liked electronic music...) Del told me some interesting 
things about guitar synths... His biggest tip was if you get one not to try 
and play it like a guitar but rather use it similar to a ribbon controller... 
Del's setup was an axe (from Home Depot) strung with one string and one 
pickup, a home made pitch to cv, and 2 vintage VCS3's... He played it mainly 
by sliding his finger up /down the string while tweaking the knobs on the 
VCS3's with his free hand. Plucking, bending or slapping the string caused 
the pitch/cv to do some really wierd interesting things... Del was the 
electronic wizard behind Hawkwinds signature space sound... I attached a 
cheesy picture of Del with his "axe"... Enjoy

Al

Hi All !

The cheapest hex pickup is supposed to be the G-vox thing .  Used 
with a pc .  Dunno if it's a usable system for guit-midi, originally 
conceived for teaching guitar .  This supposedly circumvented some 
Roland Patents .  Some time ago it was sugested on another list that 
buying this at the blow-out price and just using the pickup for hacks 
would be cheap .  No blow-out in Belgium, i'm afraid ;-)

Anybody tried out the Suzuki Digitar ?  Now there's something to 
improve one's strumming technique :)))))))))))))))

Cheers .


Keep 'em oscillating :)


Hugo
=

Has anyone else tried the Casio DG-20 MIDI guitar controller?
I have one of these and it works pretty good for controlling the MOTM.
Yeah, I know it's toy like, but it has some nice features. The neck is a
wired type, no pitch to CV here, so there's no lag. Also has a solo mode
that plays last note priority, very good for mono synths. Has a mode where
each string has it's own MIDI channel, (different synth for each string?).
Or it
can just play 6-note poly on one channel. Has a legato, staccato technique
depending on if you pick the string, or hammer on.
 It has it's disadvantages too. Only gives MIDI note on/off messages. No
velocity.
no pitch bend, no modulation. But we are talking modular, so a foot pedal or
joystick
could be added somewhere. Or you can stay in the MIDI realm and use a merger
box
to get the added controllers,(easy). Then there's the cheesy built in
speaker, synth, rhythm
unit. I tend to keep the volume knob at zero, but some of the built in
sounds are actually
cool. And when using this as a MIDI controller some of the presets give a
note off after
a few seconds, (I use the organ preset, has infinite sustain). Lastly all of
the strings are the
same thickness, with a rubbery tension, and made of nylon. But I don't mind,
I'm not a
guitar player!!
 I've had mixed reactions from "real" guitarist. Ranging from "it sucks
cause you can't bend
notes", to others that were completely blown away by the possibilities. A
matter of the glass
being half full or half empty. It certainly would make a good starting point
for a custom
guitar controller,(wood body,whammy bar bender).
 If anyone is looking to get one of these, make sure it's the DG-20. The
DG-10 looks
similar but has no MIDI out. Paid 80 bucks for mine, and use a MIDI2CV8 to
convert
to CV. Here is a pic of mine along with many other guitar like MOTM
controllers.(The
DG-20 is the one on the bottom left).
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Frontrow/4877/dg20.jpg

Terry

Hey, didn't someone else make a wired neck controller? Roland? Guitorgan?

In a message dated 3/24/2000 8:04:45 PM, goku@... writes:

>Hey, didn't someone else make a wired neck controller? Roland? Guitorgan?

Hi Terry,

Thanks for the info about the DG-20, it might make an interesting alternative 
controller, if not a real guitar controller.

"Guitorgan?" you ask? Yes, the Guitorgan! In that instrument, Vox was able to 
(through Herculean engineering feats) combine everything good about their 
organs with everything that was good about their guitars(???) ..... and throw 
them all away, leaving them out of this instrument entirely. 

When I was in high school, a friend of mine had inherited one from his 
grandfather. He loaned it to me for several months in 74 or 75. It looked 
pretty cool with buttons and knobs all over it, and had that classic Vox mod 
sixties shape. It was almost as light as two Les Paul Customs, and had wires 
going through the neck for each note (I'd guess over a hundred) of the 
fingerboard. So it had a neck that was almost as quick as a finely crafted 
2'X4". 

Since the string touching the fret closed the circuit which produced the 
appropriate (at least theoretically) pitch for that note, each "fret" had to 
be electrically separated so that adjacent strings would close different 
circuits. As such, Vox (brilliantly!) decided to just make a little channel 
in each fret between the strings. Oh sure, there might be a little problem if 
one were to say "bend the strings across the fret" in that the note would 
suddenly bottom out in that channel dying away entirely, but who'd do that 
anyway! And one needs to make sacrifices if one is to go boldly into the 
unexplored realms now possible with this instrument. And when you think about 
it, how important was bending strings to guitar players in say 1968 when 
these instruments were produced?

Now the bad news, unfortunately the guy who'd installed the oscillators, may 
have had a bit too many on lunch hour -- if you know what I mean. So I found 
that the D string had a much lower range than the low E string. I found that 
I couldn't tune it to any open or standard (raised or lowered) tunings 
because the ratios were all screwed up between the oscillators.

But other than that, it was a fine instrument. Clearly, it was the marketing 
department that screwed up this instrument's chances of acceptance by a 
hungry guitar playing population awaiting everything such an instrument could 
deliver.

Now, why again did ARP go under?
JB