MOTM

This is a bit off-topic but I'd like to hear some of the opinions of this august
group.  

Has anyone played around with an ARP 2500 and can talk about their experiences with
the matrix switches used for patching?  I've heard reports of crosstalk on the audio
side but I've also heard that it is very neat and flexible, allowing patching
without the mess of lots of patch cables.  I wonder if such a thing might be an
interesting complement to something like Larry's Magic Bus(tm).  There are
manufacturers that still make the matrix switches these days. 

Opinions anyone?

Eric

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I can attest from 1st-hand experience that the 2500 switches suck pond
water. "Crosstalk" is too kind.
Bleedthrough is more like it!

The switches still exist, but are big $$$. Rather, the IC form (Called a
matrix crosspoint switch)
is used (mainly) for video routing. Both Maxim and Analog Devices make them.

The issue is one of "visual feedback", ie with the electronic version,
what's connected to what?
(Bradley & Barlow immediately votes for 64 LEDs in a 8 x8  grid). Actually,
a muxed 8 x 8
would not be so bad IF you limit the routing to the original mechanical
version: 1 in to 1 out.

HOWEVER, the neat thing with the electronic versions is you are allowed to
close ANY and ALL
switches in a row/column (the switches are analog and bi-directional for
most chips. Some video muxes
had definite in/out pins).

Paul S.

----- Original Message -----
From: alt-mode <alt_mode@...>
To: <motm@onelist.com>
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2000 1:02 PM
Subject: [motm] Matrix Patching


> From: alt-mode <alt_mode@...>
>
> This is a bit off-topic but I'd like to hear some of the opinions of this
august
> group.
>
> Has anyone played around with an ARP 2500 and can talk about their
experiences with
> the matrix switches used for patching?  I've heard reports of crosstalk on
the audio
> side but I've also heard that it is very neat and flexible, allowing
patching
> without the mess of lots of patch cables.  I wonder if such a thing might
be an

> interesting complement to something like Larry's Magic Bus(tm).  There are
> manufacturers that still make the matrix switches these days.
>
> Opinions anyone?
>
> Eric
>
> _________________________________________________________
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> Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
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The designer of one of the other analog modulars I own is a *BIG* EMS
fan/user and decidedly chose NOT to use matrix patching in the system he
designed.  That says a lot to me about the quality of the matrix patching.
I would assume he made that choice for the reasons Paul already mentioned.

However, alternative patching methods (other than cords) makes for an
interesting discussion topic.  I've probably spent a couple hundred dollars
on raw jacks & cable to make my own patchcords for my MOTM (and other
patchable/modular synths), so cost of other patching systems isn't as much
of an issue as the quality.  I believe that they make MIDI-controlled
patching systems for guitar rigs to switch between fx racks & stompboxes,
which could easily be used (I would think) for analog modulars, but I
believe that they're also very expensive.  And anyway, I'm a certified
MIDIot, but I'd be curious to hear if anyone has tried using one of those
for synth patching ...

	-Doug
	 ceres@...

At 11:02 AM 02/25/2000 -0800, alt-mode <alt_mode@...> wrote:
>Has anyone played around with an ARP 2500 and can talk about their
experiences with
>the matrix switches used for patching?  I've heard reports of crosstalk on
the audio
>side but I've also heard that it is very neat and flexible, allowing patching
>without the mess of lots of patch cables.  I wonder if such a thing might
be an
>interesting complement to something like Larry's Magic Bus(tm).  There are
>manufacturers that still make the matrix switches these days.

The matrix switches in the 2500 are quite different from the matrix patch bays on
the EMS synths.  The matrix patch bays are *extremely* compact but they are hard to
get used to.  The problem I would have with a MIDI controlled patch system is the
same one I have with MIDI patch bays - I can't see what is going on!  I tend to
treat MIDI patch bays as a "set it up once and try to forget about it" device. 
Without adequate visual feedback, it is no better than a 2 line LCD display.  I
could see some LEDs attached to some form of automated Magic Bus being very cool. 
Note: you'd still spend a lot on cable since you would have to connect everything up
to the patch bays...

One of the comments I did hear about the ARP matrix switches is that you can
experience some "happy accidents" by sliding the switches and happening on different
signals on your way to another location...

I guess I like patch cords in the end because I tend to feel that I have more
"contact" with the sound - like I'm manipulating electricity with my bare hands ;)

Eric


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In a message dated 00-02-25 14:51:11 EST, you write:

<< The designer of one of the other analog modulars I own is a *BIG* EMS
 fan/user and decidedly chose NOT to use matrix patching in the system he
 designed.  That says a lot to me about the quality of the matrix patching. >>


doug,
and out of curiousity, that modular would be........ ????
best,
dave

At 10:30 PM 02/25/2000 EST, davevosh@... wrote:
>In a message dated 00-02-25 14:51:11 EST, you write:
><< The designer of one of the other analog modulars I own is a *BIG* EMS
> fan/user and decidedly chose NOT to use matrix patching in the system he
> designed.  That says a lot to me about the quality of the matrix
patching. >>
>
>doug,
>and out of curiousity, that modular would be........ ????

Wiard, the only "full-featured" modular I own besides MOTM (although I also
have one of each of the Blacet modules).  Grant Richter's (Wiard honcho)
"main axe" in the spacerock band F/i (big faves of mine) is a VCS3, and I
know he also owns an AKS and possibly other EMS gear.

	-Doug
	 ceres@...