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Thread

Flat rails Part #2

2000-02-03 by Paul Schreiber

I *might* be able to use 10ga steel flat stock. It is 0.134 thck (nom).
Allowing for slop,
if the panels are 0.125 and the screw is 0.250, that means 9 mils until it
hits wood!

But, I *think* (and will need to verify) that standard '1/4 " screws' are
really like 0.219 long
from the end to the bottom of the head. Also, I need to get the minimum
thickness of the rail stock.

I really don't want to use 3/16" screws a la Moog: too much weight! The
screws would only be about
0.055 into the support bracket.

The current 11ga rail is about 0.113 nominal thick, and the screws go all
the way through it.

Or, as a (shudder) cheapo alternative, use flar bar alum stock that is 3/16"
(0.187) and use 1/4" screws.
The issue there is the silver alum "peeking through", and the fact that
tapped alum holes are only good
for about 10 insertions and then you get stripping. Or with Hendry one good
twist with 800ft-lbs.

I may just quote 9ga and 10ga. 9ga rails would weight a ton! Beat polar
bears to death with them! And forget
"use a hacksaw to trim" HA!!

Once decided, I could have these made up in about 3 weeks.

Paul S.
the King of Over-Engineering

RE: Flat rails Part #2

2000-02-03 by Dave Bradley

RE flat rails over wood:

I would be perfectly willing to drill a small hole in the wood behind each
tapped hole to allow for longer module screws. There's no reason to try to
limit the screw length to be flush with the front of the wood surface.

Dave Bradley
Principal Software Engineer
Engineering Animation, Inc.
daveb@...

Show quoted textHide quoted text

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Schreiber [mailto:synth1@...]
> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2000 9:38 AM
> To: motm@onelist.com
> Subject: [motm] Flat rails Part #2
>
>
> From: "Paul Schreiber" <synth1@...>
>
> I *might* be able to use 10ga steel flat stock. It is 0.134 thck (nom).
> Allowing for slop,
> if the panels are 0.125 and the screw is 0.250, that means 9 mils until it
> hits wood!
>
> But, I *think* (and will need to verify) that standard '1/4 " screws' are
> really like 0.219 long
> from the end to the bottom of the head. Also, I need to get the minimum
> thickness of the rail stock.
>
> I really don't want to use 3/16" screws a la Moog: too much weight! The
> screws would only be about
> 0.055 into the support bracket.
>
> The current 11ga rail is about 0.113 nominal thick, and the screws go all
> the way through it.
>
> Or, as a (shudder) cheapo alternative, use flar bar alum stock
> that is 3/16"
> (0.187) and use 1/4" screws.
> The issue there is the silver alum "peeking through", and the fact that
> tapped alum holes are only good
> for about 10 insertions and then you get stripping. Or with
> Hendry one good
> twist with 800ft-lbs.
>
> I may just quote 9ga and 10ga. 9ga rails would weight a ton! Beat polar
> bears to death with them! And forget
> "use a hacksaw to trim" HA!!
>
> Once decided, I could have these made up in about 3 weeks.
>
> Paul S.
> the King of Over-Engineering
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
>       Books, music, auctions and more! Amazon.com.
> <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/afamazon1 ">Click Here</a>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

RE: Flat rails Part #2

2000-02-03 by Tkacs, Ken

>> * " Or with Hendry one good twist with 800ft-lbs." *



Wow, I've got to see a _picture_ of Larry. He must be a 7-foot high
weight-lifter or something the way everyone talks about him...!



	>> * "Paul S., the King of Over-Engineering" *



That's one of the things we like about you, Paul!

RE: Flat rails Part #2

2000-02-03 by Crawley, Eric

Yes indeed!  Letting the screws go into the wood a tiny bit seems like a no
brainer to me.  If 10ga steel can still be cut by normal humans, with hand
tools, then I think we would have a solution that would work for any size
cabinet.  I think that 10U is probably the best general size but that could
go shorter or longer as needed.  You would just order enough segments for
your cabinet and cut them to the size needed.

The important thing is to have the rails drilled for flathead wood screws
for attachement (and tapped for modules).

Thanks for listening gang.

	Eric

Show quoted textHide quoted text

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Bradley [mailto:daveb@...]
> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2000 11:05 AM
> To: motm@onelist.com
> Subject: RE: [motm] Flat rails Part #2
> 
> 
> From: "Dave Bradley" <daveb@...>
> 
> RE flat rails over wood:
> 
> I would be perfectly willing to drill a small hole in the 
> wood behind each
> tapped hole to allow for longer module screws. There's no 
> reason to try to
> limit the screw length to be flush with the front of the wood surface.
> 
> Dave Bradley
> Principal Software Engineer
> Engineering Animation, Inc.
> daveb@...
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Paul Schreiber [mailto:synth1@...]
> > Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2000 9:38 AM
> > To: motm@onelist.com
> > Subject: [motm] Flat rails Part #2
> >
> >
> > From: "Paul Schreiber" <synth1@...>
> >
> > I *might* be able to use 10ga steel flat stock. It is 0.134 
> thck (nom).
> > Allowing for slop,
> > if the panels are 0.125 and the screw is 0.250, that means 
> 9 mils until it
> > hits wood!
> >
> > But, I *think* (and will need to verify) that standard '1/4 
> " screws' are
> > really like 0.219 long
> > from the end to the bottom of the head. Also, I need to get 
> the minimum
> > thickness of the rail stock.
> >
> > I really don't want to use 3/16" screws a la Moog: too much 
> weight! The
> > screws would only be about
> > 0.055 into the support bracket.
> >
> > The current 11ga rail is about 0.113 nominal thick, and the 
> screws go all
> > the way through it.
> >
> > Or, as a (shudder) cheapo alternative, use flar bar alum stock
> > that is 3/16"
> > (0.187) and use 1/4" screws.
> > The issue there is the silver alum "peeking through", and 
> the fact that
> > tapped alum holes are only good
> > for about 10 insertions and then you get stripping. Or with
> > Hendry one good
> > twist with 800ft-lbs.
> >
> > I may just quote 9ga and 10ga. 9ga rails would weight a 
> ton! Beat polar
> > bears to death with them! And forget
> > "use a hacksaw to trim" HA!!
> >
> > Once decided, I could have these made up in about 3 weeks.
> >
> > Paul S.
> > the King of Over-Engineering
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor 
> ----------------------------
> >
> >       Books, music, auctions and more! Amazon.com.
> > <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/afamazon1 ">Click Here</a>
> >
> > 
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
> >
> >
> 
> 
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor 
> ----------------------------
> 
>       Books, music, auctions and more! Amazon.com.
> <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/afamazon1 ">Click Here</a>
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
>

RE: Flat rails Part #2

2000-02-03 by Dave Bradley

OK, so I say go with 11 ga flat stock, 10U long, tapped for the current MOTM
screws, and plan on making wood rails with clearance holes drilled behind
the tapped holes.

That way, Paul can sleep at night knowing his panels won't fall off, and we
still have a shot at the hacksaws for making odd lengths.

Dave

Show quoted textHide quoted text

> From: "Paul Schreiber" <synth1@...>
>
> The current 11ga rail is about 0.113 nominal thick, and the screws go all
> the way through it.
>
> Or, as a (shudder) cheapo alternative, use flar bar alum stock
> that is 3/16"
> (0.187) and use 1/4" screws.
> The issue there is the silver alum "peeking through", and the fact that
> tapped alum holes are only good
> for about 10 insertions and then you get stripping. Or with
> Hendry one good
> twist with 800ft-lbs.
>
>
> Once decided, I could have these made up in about 3 weeks.
>
> Paul S.
> the King of Over-Engineering
>

RE: Flat rails Part #2

2000-02-03 by Tkacs, Ken

I wonder if this wouldn't work:  the wooded brace is mounted horizontally
(say it's a 3" by 5/8" board?) with the rails on the narrow side. You could
use a router to simply cut a channel into the edge of the wood, rather than
drilling individual holes, for the machine screws to set into behind the
rail. Maybe you could even purchase wood with a tongu-&-groove joint prefab,
and just use the channel edge.

Show quoted textHide quoted text

		-----Original Message-----
		From:	Dave Bradley [mailto:daveb@...]
		Sent:	Thursday, February 03, 2000 1:15 PM
		To:	motm@onelist.com
		Subject:	RE: [motm] Flat rails Part #2

		... and plan on making wood rails with clearance holes
drilled behind the tapped holes.

Re: Flat rails Part #2

2000-02-04 by JWBarlow@aol.com

While I can imagine better rail solutions for me, I have to admit the flat 
rail does seem like the best all around solution. 

In a message dated 2/3/2000 8:40:18 AM, synth1@... writes:
>I *might* be able to use 10ga steel flat stock. It is 0.134 thck (nom).
>Allowing for slop,
>if the panels are 0.125 and the screw is 0.250, that means 9 mils until
>it
>hits wood!

Or put washers between the wood and the flat rail!

>The current 11ga rail is about 0.113 nominal thick, and the screws go all
>the way through it.

Drilling the wood behind the flat rail seems like another unMOTM option (OK 
for a stooge or two, but a better general solution is needed).

>Or, as a (shudder) cheapo alternative, use flar bar alum stock that is
>3/16"
>(0.187) and use 1/4" screws.
>The issue there is the silver alum "peeking through", and the fact that
>tapped alum holes are only good

Although a lot of people seem to want that aluminum peeking around the edges 
Moog look!

10U or 12U lengths seem like they would be a reasonable compromise.

JB

RE: Flat rails Part #2

2000-02-04 by Hugo Haesaert

Hi All !

Angle grinder :)  Never taken the top off of a VW Beetle ?  Cheapest 
convertible around ;-)  (Oh my, they're also "vintaj" these days :) )

Routing is one option, a circular handsaw would work too, even use 
two saw blades parallel .  Provided the wood is sturdy enough, no 
sweat to go 5mm deep . (0.2in)  That should give the required 
clearance in one rip .  The wood screws should then have to be offset 
from the module screw line for good purchase into the wood.

Cheers .


Keep 'em oscillating :)


Hugo
=