MOTM

> Perhaps I am alone on this but I don't have any clocks to spare on my unit

...

You should consider adding LFOs to your system, like the MOTM-390:
http://www.synthtech.com/motm390.html

> ... and would love to have an accurate pulse (besides using a VCO) to

drive my analog sequencers.

VCOs (VC LFOs, if you prefer) are the best for driving sequencers because
they allow you to do voltage-controlled tempo changes. Hey, look, the
MOTM-390 has a VC LFO! ;-)
--
john

--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "Tkacs, Ken" <ken.tkacs@j...> wrote:

>
> I agree that the internal clock is an easy candidate for cutting
> if more panel space is needed. Most modulars end up with a dozen
> or more LFOs anyway, and if you look at this module as something
> that you might want to own several of, daisy-chained, then the
> clocks on the downstream modules become wasted.

To clarify my idea, I do *not* think the internal clock should be
completely eliminated from the S&H module. (It is valuable and,
because this module is presumably microprocessor based, the internal
clock is "just" software running on the CPU.) What I *do* think is
that a jack to control the asr/loop mode is more valuable than a jack
for CV control of the internal clock. If you want to do the latter,
an external LFO (as a clock source) is the easy solution.

seth

--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "Tkacs, Ken" <ken.tkacs@j...> wrote:

>
> I agree that the internal clock is an easy candidate for cutting if more
> panel space is needed. Most modulars end up with a dozen or more LFOs
> anyway, and if you look at this module as something that you might want
> to own several of, daisy-chained, then the clocks on the downstream
> modules become wasted.
>
>
>
> "Modularize the module."

It might be interesting to have a more powerful Master clock module
that could be used to drive S&H's or other modules.

It would be nice to have a clock that could output a variety of
subdivisions, like 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, 1/5, etc, via individual jacks.
You'd have a rate knob, and then outputs with clocks at various
subdivisions.

That way doing things like running a couple of S&H's with 3 pulses
against 4, in sync, would be a piece of cake.

For rhythmic music, having a powerful clock controller seems like it
would be more useful than having multiple less powerful internal clocks.

Sounds like the VC Pulse Divider to me.

John Loffink
The Microtonal Synthesis Web Site
http://www.microtonal-synthesis.com
The Wavemakers Synthesizer Web Site
http://www.wavemakers-synth.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: motm@yahoogroups.com [mailto:motm@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> elle_webb
>
> It might be interesting to have a more powerful Master clock module
> that could be used to drive S&H's or other modules.
>
> It would be nice to have a clock that could output a variety of
> subdivisions, like 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, 1/5, etc, via individual jacks.
> You'd have a rate knob, and then outputs with clocks at various
> subdivisions.
>
> That way doing things like running a couple of S&H's with 3 pulses
> against 4, in sync, would be a piece of cake.
>
> For rhythmic music, having a powerful clock controller seems like it
> would be more useful than having multiple less powerful internal clocks.
>
>

Hey all, firstly, overall great discussion! The list has been super
active and I have learned a lot from what has been said!

The 730 Pulse Divider will offer us all of the subdivisions and even
more by the sound of it. I would like to vote "for" the inclusion of
a "clock" on the module with an output jack. This would save me from
an LFO and the S&H effects would be in sync with my master clock as
it would be located on the same module. Just my thought on the issue,

Thomas
www.naturalrhythmmusic.com/gear.html

--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "elle_webb" <elle_webb@h...> wrote:
>
> --- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "Tkacs, Ken" <ken.tkacs@j...> wrote:
> >
> > I agree that the internal clock is an easy candidate for cutting
if more
> > panel space is needed. Most modulars end up with a dozen or more
LFOs
> > anyway, and if you look at this module as something that you
might want
> > to own several of, daisy-chained, then the clocks on the
downstream
> > modules become wasted.
> >
> >
> >
> > "Modularize the module."
>
> It might be interesting to have a more powerful Master clock module
> that could be used to drive S&H's or other modules.
>
> It would be nice to have a clock that could output a variety of
> subdivisions, like 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, 1/5, etc, via individual jacks.
> You'd have a rate knob, and then outputs with clocks at various
> subdivisions.
>
> That way doing things like running a couple of S&H's with 3 pulses
> against 4, in sync, would be a piece of cake.
>
> For rhythmic music, having a powerful clock controller seems like
it
> would be more useful than having multiple less powerful internal
clocks.
>

> It might be interesting to have a more powerful Master clock module
> that could be used to drive S&H's or other modules.
>
> It would be nice to have a clock that could output a variety of
> subdivisions, like 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, 1/5, etc, via individual jacks.

Or multipliers. I suspect most avoid this because it's "too hard" to do.

-->Neil

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Neil Bradley "If you owe the bank $100, it's your problem. If you
Synthcom Systems, Inc. owe them $100mil, it's the bank's problem." - JP Getty

Binary Division = Really Easy - A series of divide by 2s - flip flops or
other similar circuit
Integer Division = Not quite as easy - Count pulses then turn on or off -
Easy to implement
Binary Multiplication = Not really easy, but doable - Multiply triangle
waves with precision rectifiers then convert to square waves
Integer Multiplication = Not impossible, but pretty stinkin hard - Only way
I can think of to do this aside from syncable VCOs is to use multiplication
scheme above and then divide using counters - this would still be an
approximation. i.e. 10 stages of multiplication divided by 341 would =
3.003x not 3.000x

Paul H.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Neil Bradley" <nb@...>
Cc: <motm@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 8:28 PM
Subject: Re: [motm] Re: External clock module


>> It might be interesting to have a more powerful Master clock module
>> that could be used to drive S&H's or other modules.
>>
>> It would be nice to have a clock that could output a variety of
>> subdivisions, like 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, 1/5, etc, via individual jacks.
>
> Or multipliers. I suspect most avoid this because it's "too hard" to do.
>
> -->Neil
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Neil Bradley "If you owe the bank $100, it's your problem. If
> you
> Synthcom Systems, Inc. owe them $100mil, it's the bank's problem." - JP
> Getty
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

The Miniwave does clock multiplication. Bank 7 of the standard ROM
does binary rate multiplication from x2 up to x15. The only drawback
is that there is only one output.

Moe
http://www.hotrodmotm.com
http://www.wiseguysynth.com

--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, Paul Haneberg <phaneber@o...> wrote:
> Binary Multiplication = Not really easy, but doable - Multiply triangle
> waves with precision rectifiers then convert to square waves
> Integer Multiplication = Not impossible, but pretty stinkin hard -

Still an approximation.

The miniwave's A to D generating a counter from a sawtooth wave addressing a
ROM is effectively the same as a 256x multiplier followed by a divider. But
since you cannot divide 256 equally by three the best you can do is
approximate. You would have two waves at 85 counts each followed by one at
86 counts. So the average is correct, but the timing of the clocks would
vary.
Two thirds of the time the pulses would be .13% short and one third of the
time the pulse would be .26% long.

I don't think you can do a perfect 3x multiplication, but the greater number
of binary multiplications followed by a counter/divider, the closer you
would get. The same thing using a wavetable. The greater the number of
samples per wave the closer to 3x you would get.

BTW if you think about it the 3x approximation would be equivalent to
applying a pulse wave with 33.3% duty cycle to the linear FM input on a VCO
tuned to 3x the fundamental. There would be sidebands generated. Whereas
using a 256x multiplier followed by a /85 divider would get you a proper
square wave, but with a frequency error of 1.2%.

Paul H.

----- Original Message -----
From: "mate_stubb" <mate_stubb@...>
To: <motm@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 9:58 PM
Subject: [motm] Re: External clock module


> The Miniwave does clock multiplication. Bank 7 of the standard ROM
> does binary rate multiplication from x2 up to x15. The only drawback
> is that there is only one output.
>
> Moe
> http://www.hotrodmotm.com
> http://www.wiseguysynth.com
>
> --- In motm@yahoogroups.com, Paul Haneberg <phaneber@o...> wrote:
>> Binary Multiplication = Not really easy, but doable - Multiply triangle
>> waves with precision rectifiers then convert to square waves
>> Integer Multiplication = Not impossible, but pretty stinkin hard -
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

I would like a clock on the module...

--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "djthomaswhite" <djthomaswhite@h...> wrote:
>
> Hey all, firstly, overall great discussion! The list has been super
> active and I have learned a lot from what has been said!
>
> The 730 Pulse Divider will offer us all of the subdivisions and even
> more by the sound of it. I would like to vote "for" the inclusion of
> a "clock" on the module with an output jack. This would save me from
> an LFO and the S&H effects would be in sync with my master clock as
> it would be located on the same module. Just my thought on the issue,
>
> Thomas
> www.naturalrhythmmusic.com/gear.html
>
>
> --- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "elle_webb" <elle_webb@h...> wrote:
> >
> > --- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "Tkacs, Ken" <ken.tkacs@j...> wrote:
> > >
> > > I agree that the internal clock is an easy candidate for cutting
> if more
> > > panel space is needed. Most modulars end up with a dozen or more
> LFOs
> > > anyway, and if you look at this module as something that you
> might want
> > > to own several of, daisy-chained, then the clocks on the
> downstream
> > > modules become wasted.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Modularize the module."
> >
> > It might be interesting to have a more powerful Master clock module
> > that could be used to drive S&H's or other modules.
> >
> > It would be nice to have a clock that could output a variety of
> > subdivisions, like 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, 1/5, etc, via individual jacks.
> > You'd have a rate knob, and then outputs with clocks at various
> > subdivisions.
> >
> > That way doing things like running a couple of S&H's with 3 pulses
> > against 4, in sync, would be a piece of cake.
> >
> > For rhythmic music, having a powerful clock controller seems like
> it
> > would be more useful than having multiple less powerful internal
> clocks.
> >
>

--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "elle_webb" <elle_webb@h...> wrote:

>
> It might be interesting to have a more powerful Master clock module
> that could be used to drive S&H's or other modules.

If there is a dedicated MOTM clock module someday I think it should
have a BNC on the front panel for 10 MHz reference in. This way we
can sync to a rubidium reference for ultra accurate timing! ;)

Couldn't you use Phase Locked Loops to do either/both
divisions/multiplications and even stay totally in the analog domain?

Larry T.

--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, Neil Bradley <nb@s...> wrote:
>
> > It might be interesting to have a more powerful Master clock module
> > that could be used to drive S&H's or other modules.
> >
> > It would be nice to have a clock that could output a variety of
> > subdivisions, like 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, 1/5, etc, via individual jacks.
>
> Or multipliers. I suspect most avoid this because it's "too hard" to do.
>
> -->Neil
>
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Neil Bradley "If you owe the bank $100, it's your
problem. If you
> Synthcom Systems, Inc. owe them $100mil, it's the bank's problem."
- JP Getty
>

--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "strohs56k" <strohs@e...> wrote:

>
> --- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "elle_webb" <elle_webb@h...> wrote:
> >
> > It might be interesting to have a more powerful Master clock module
> > that could be used to drive S&H's or other modules.
>
> If there is a dedicated MOTM clock module someday I think it should
> have a BNC on the front panel for 10 MHz reference in. This way we
> can sync to a rubidium reference for ultra accurate timing! ;)
>

My synth has BNC I/O...how hard can it be to find rubidium?

I second this. IMO a great idea.

As much fun as it is to drive my MOTM and ACS sequencers from Live
via MIDI I'm longing for "stand-alone" usage of my modular and tape
machines.

i.e. printing a clock (or 2) to my 1" 8 track and then using that to
sequence/compose directly to tape.

I know its old fashioned but... its fun.

On 04.01.2006, at 00:37 Uhr, elle_webb wrote:

> --- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "Tkacs, Ken" <ken.tkacs@j...> wrote:
>>
>> I agree that the internal clock is an easy candidate for cutting
>> if more
>> panel space is needed. Most modulars end up with a dozen or more LFOs
>> anyway, and if you look at this module as something that you might
>> want
>> to own several of, daisy-chained, then the clocks on the downstream
>> modules become wasted.
>>
>>
>>
>> "Modularize the module."
>
> It might be interesting to have a more powerful Master clock module
> that could be used to drive S&H's or other modules.
>
> It would be nice to have a clock that could output a variety of
> subdivisions, like 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, 1/5, etc, via individual jacks.
> You'd have a rate knob, and then outputs with clocks at various
> subdivisions.
>
> That way doing things like running a couple of S&H's with 3 pulses
> against 4, in sync, would be a piece of cake.
>
> For rhythmic music, having a powerful clock controller seems like it
> would be more useful than having multiple less powerful internal
> clocks.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

On Wed, 2006-01-04 at 03:53 +0000, strohs56k wrote:

> --- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "elle_webb" <elle_webb@h...> wrote:
> >
> > It might be interesting to have a more powerful Master clock module
> > that could be used to drive S&H's or other modules.
>
> If there is a dedicated MOTM clock module someday I think it should
> have a BNC on the front panel for 10 MHz reference in. This way we
> can sync to a rubidium reference for ultra accurate timing! ;)
>

Rubidium won't last as long as a MOTM pot immersed in sea water.
Hydrogen masers are the way to go.

I was thinking "cesium."
--
john

----- Original Message -----
From: "jfm3" <jfm3@...>
To: "strohs56k" <strohs@...>
Cc: <motm@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 12:54 PM
Subject: Re: [motm] Re: External clock module (humor)


> On Wed, 2006-01-04 at 03:53 +0000, strohs56k wrote:
> > --- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "elle_webb" <elle_webb@h...> wrote:
> > >
> > > It might be interesting to have a more powerful Master clock module
> > > that could be used to drive S&H's or other modules.
> >
> > If there is a dedicated MOTM clock module someday I think it should
> > have a BNC on the front panel for 10 MHz reference in. This way we
> > can sync to a rubidium reference for ultra accurate timing! ;)
> >
>
> Rubidium won't last as long as a MOTM pot immersed in sea water.
> Hydrogen masers are the way to go.
>

On Wed, 2006-01-04 at 14:37 -0500, john mahoney wrote:

> I was thinking "cesium."

What are you nuts? These things are expensive enough as it is.

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jfm3" <jfm3@...>
> To: "strohs56k" <strohs@...>
> Cc: <motm@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 12:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [motm] Re: External clock module (humor)
>
>
> > On Wed, 2006-01-04 at 03:53 +0000, strohs56k wrote:
> > > --- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "elle_webb" <elle_webb@h...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > It might be interesting to have a more powerful Master clock module
> > > > that could be used to drive S&H's or other modules.
> > >
> > > If there is a dedicated MOTM clock module someday I think it should
> > > have a BNC on the front panel for 10 MHz reference in. This way we
> > > can sync to a rubidium reference for ultra accurate timing! ;)
> > >
> >
> > Rubidium won't last as long as a MOTM pot immersed in sea water.
> > Hydrogen masers are the way to go.
> >