MOTM

From: "mate_stubb" <mate_stubb@...>
To: <motm@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 4:15 PM
Subject: [motm] Future panel options - everyone please read carefully (long)


> All,
>
> This is potentially a controversial topic, so please read carefully,
> and don't read anything into it other than what I actually say!
>
> I want to have a discussion about the MOTM standard panel finish.
>
> I have not talked to Paul about this, other than to hear from him the
> same complaints the Stooges have - it is a giant hassle to get panels
> painted in the polane finish, get silkscreens made, and get legends
> screen printed. The whole process is expensive, and paint vendors keep
> flaking out. You have to spend a lot of money stocking big batches of
> panels to make it economical. In Paul's case, he sits on a lot of
> expensive panels that may or may not sell. In the Stooges' case, we
> only manage to do a run once or twice a year. It happens so seldom,
> that everyone is frantic to get in on a run, resulting in things
> dragging on and on.
>
> A potential solution is to change the panel finish. The Stooges are
> considering investing in a laser printing system that would allow
> laser etched graphics, either on the current polane paint finish or on
> anodized panels. But since the painting is the biggest hassle anyway,
> suppose for the sake of discussion that we are talking about etched
> panels with an anodized finish, and that the price for a 2U undrilled
> panel can be kept at $25 or less.
>
> The big advantage is that we could potentially manufacture custom
> panels almost on demand. No more 10 month waits for your custom panel.
> Other advantages would be flexibility in design. How about blue or red
> anodized panels? A different style of layout that puts jacks near
> input knobs? Function block graphics ala Arp 2500/2600? Or just like
> the current design but with panel edge graphics? Suppose Stooge
> Enterprises supported two or three standard graphics styles for new
> module designs, in your choice of colors?
>
> The disadvantage is that it would not match the current MOTM standard
> 100%. Black anodizing is very close, much like a Schaeffer panel. I
> know people have a lot invested in their systems, and take pride in
> their instrument's appearance.
>
> Hence this discussion - what is your tolerence level for something new?
>
> Now just to complicate things, suppose Paul found the prospect of less
> expensive, just in time delivery attractive enough to consider
> changing the MOTM standard as well? How would that affect your opinion?
>
> Let me reiterate: I have not talked to Paul. He may have no interest
> in this. I have not talked to Paul. He may have no interest in this.
> Don't bombard him with any panic about changing the format, OK? I'm
> just thinking out loud about solutions to problems.
>
> I've set up a poll for you to indicate your level of interest or
> disgust. The choices range from "I'm not interested in custom panels
> anyway" to "I'd be interested if they matched closely" to "I'm a
> complete madman, and I would totally redo my 100 module monster in
> red". I certainly don't want the Stooges to invest in a bunch of
> equipment if everybody thinks the idea sucks. On the other hand, it
> could potentially work out to allow you to express your wildest panel
> desires.
>
> Please visit the poll!
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/motm/surveys?id=2063312
>
> Stooge Moe
> http://www.hotrodmotm.com
> http://wiseguysynth.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
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>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wood [mailto:buck75@...] 
> Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 2:42 PM
> To: motm@yahoogroups.com; mate_stubb
> Subject: Re: [motm] Future panel options - everyone please 
> read carefully (long)
> 
> 
> O.K So I voted prior to reading the post. I think this would 
> be a good idea at those kind of prices.
> Would I have to drill them myself though? I have been wanting 
> a very large MOTM style front panel for
> a while now for my TR9090. I spoke to Larry about this a few 
> times and he said it would cost about
> $250. Pretty steep, but I would totally do it if it were 
> quite a bit cheaper even if the finish was
> different. To me the current finish is really nice but I 
> don't mind sticking something else in there
> if it will drop the cost. I mean I am sure that it is close 
> enough for me. Also, I had spoken to
> Larry a few times about doing another run of the SKB Backs, 
> is this something you guys will be
> thinking about?
> 
> Eric
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "mate_stubb" <mate_stubb@...>
> To: <motm@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 4:15 PM
> Subject: [motm] Future panel options - everyone please read 
> carefully (long)
> 
> 
> > All,
> >
> > This is potentially a controversial topic, so please read carefully,
> > and don't read anything into it other than what I actually say!
> >
> > I want to have a discussion about the MOTM standard panel finish.
> >
> > I have not talked to Paul about this, other than to hear 
> from him the
> > same complaints the Stooges have - it is a giant hassle to 
> get panels
> > painted in the polane finish, get silkscreens made, and get legends
> > screen printed. The whole process is expensive, and paint 
> vendors keep
> > flaking out. You have to spend a lot of money stocking big 
> batches of
> > panels to make it economical. In Paul's case, he sits on a lot of
> > expensive panels that may or may not sell. In the Stooges' case, we
> > only manage to do a run once or twice a year. It happens so seldom,
> > that everyone is frantic to get in on a run, resulting in things
> > dragging on and on.
> >
> > A potential solution is to change the panel finish. The Stooges are
> > considering investing in a laser printing system that would allow
> > laser etched graphics, either on the current polane paint 
> finish or on
> > anodized panels. But since the painting is the biggest 
> hassle anyway,
> > suppose for the sake of discussion that we are talking about etched
> > panels with an anodized finish, and that the price for a 2U 
> undrilled
> > panel can be kept at $25 or less.
> >
> > The big advantage is that we could potentially manufacture custom
> > panels almost on demand. No more 10 month waits for your 
> custom panel.
> > Other advantages would be flexibility in design. How about 
> blue or red
> > anodized panels? A different style of layout that puts jacks near
> > input knobs? Function block graphics ala Arp 2500/2600? Or just like
> > the current design but with panel edge graphics? Suppose Stooge
> > Enterprises supported two or three standard graphics styles for new
> > module designs, in your choice of colors?
> >
> > The disadvantage is that it would not match the current 
> MOTM standard
> > 100%. Black anodizing is very close, much like a Schaeffer panel. I
> > know people have a lot invested in their systems, and take pride in
> > their instrument's appearance.
> >
> > Hence this discussion - what is your tolerence level for 
> something new?
> >
> > Now just to complicate things, suppose Paul found the 
> prospect of less
> > expensive, just in time delivery attractive enough to consider
> > changing the MOTM standard as well? How would that affect 
> your opinion?
> >
> > Let me reiterate: I have not talked to Paul. He may have no interest
> > in this. I have not talked to Paul. He may have no interest in this.
> > Don't bombard him with any panic about changing the format, OK? I'm
> > just thinking out loud about solutions to problems.
> >
> > I've set up a poll for you to indicate your level of interest or
> > disgust. The choices range from "I'm not interested in custom panels
> > anyway" to "I'd be interested if they matched closely" to "I'm a
> > complete madman, and I would totally redo my 100 module monster in
> > red". I certainly don't want the Stooges to invest in a bunch of
> > equipment if everybody thinks the idea sucks. On the other hand, it
> > could potentially work out to allow you to express your 
> wildest panel
> > desires.
> >
> > Please visit the poll!
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/motm/surveys?id=2063312
> >
> > Stooge Moe
> > http://www.hotrodmotm.com
> > http://wiseguysynth.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -- 
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/189 - Release 
> Date: 11/30/2005
> >
> >
> 
> 
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>

>
> This is of interest to me too...  
> 
> I am putting together three ASM-1 boards and have been thinking about
> moving two Oberheim SEMs and the sequencer out of a very beat-up 2-voice
> case and mounting them in my MOTM system.
> 
> Keep me posted on this please!
> Dave
>

On Dec 1, 2005, at 4:15 PM, mate_stubb wrote:

> All,
>
>  This is potentially a controversial topic, so please read carefully,
>  and don't read anything into it other than what I actually say!
>
>  I want to have a discussion about the MOTM standard panel finish.
>
>  I have not talked to Paul about this, other than to hear from him the
>  same complaints the Stooges have - it is a giant hassle to get panels
>  painted in the polane finish, get silkscreens made, and get legends
>  screen printed. The whole process is expensive, and paint vendors keep
>  flaking out. You have to spend a lot of money stocking big batches of
>  panels to make it economical. In Paul's case, he sits on a lot of
>  expensive panels that may or may not sell. In the Stooges' case, we
>  only manage to do a run once or twice a year. It happens so seldom,
>  that everyone is frantic to get in on a run, resulting in things
>  dragging on and on.
>
>  A potential solution is to change the panel finish. The Stooges are
>  considering investing in a laser printing system that would allow
>  laser etched graphics, either on the current polane paint finish or on
>  anodized panels. But since the painting is the biggest hassle anyway,
>  suppose for the sake of discussion that we are talking about etched
>  panels with an anodized finish, and that the price for a 2U undrilled
>  panel can be kept at $25 or less.
>
>  The big advantage is that we could potentially manufacture custom
>  panels almost on demand. No more 10 month waits for your custom panel.
>  Other advantages would be flexibility in design. How about blue or red
>  anodized panels? A different style of layout that puts jacks near
>  input knobs? Function block graphics ala Arp 2500/2600? Or just like
>  the current design but with panel edge graphics? Suppose Stooge
>  Enterprises supported two or three standard graphics styles for new
>  module designs, in your choice of colors?
>
>  The disadvantage is that it would not match the current MOTM standard
>  100%. Black anodizing is very close, much like a Schaeffer panel. I
>  know people have a lot invested in their systems, and take pride in
>  their instrument's appearance.
>
>  Hence this discussion - what is your tolerence level for something 
> new?
>
>  Now just to complicate things, suppose Paul found the prospect of less
>  expensive, just in time delivery attractive enough to consider
>  changing the MOTM standard as well? How would that affect your 
> opinion?
>
>  Let me reiterate: I have not talked to Paul. He may have no interest
>  in this. I have not talked to Paul. He may have no interest in this.
>  Don't bombard him with any panic about changing the format, OK? I'm
>  just thinking out loud about solutions to problems.
>
>  I've set up a poll for you to indicate your level of interest or
>  disgust. The choices range from "I'm not interested in custom panels
>  anyway" to "I'd be interested if they matched closely" to "I'm a
>  complete madman, and I would totally redo my 100 module monster in
>  red". I certainly don't want the Stooges to invest in a bunch of
>  equipment if everybody thinks the idea sucks. On the other hand, it
>  could potentially work out to allow you to express your wildest panel
>  desires.
>
>  Please visit the poll!
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/motm/surveys?id=2063312
>
>  Stooge Moe
> http://www.hotrodmotm.com
> http://wiseguysynth.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> Hi,
>
> I appreciate that Moe's post is in the spirit of stimulating discussion
> and I respect that different people may have different views, and that
> the Stooges are entitled to offer, or not offer, anything they want.
>
> Having said that:
>
> Call me a reactionary, but I love both the standard MOTM finish and
> the standard MOTM graphical style, and I am only interested in panels
> that look like that. I am interested in Stooge panels precisely because
> they match the standard MOTM appearance. If I wanted other panel
> appearances i could get them from FrontPanelExpress or a variety of
> other sources. If Stooge Industries does not offer exact matches for
> the MOTM appearance, I will find another way to make panels that do.
>
> The black anodized panels from FrontPanelExpress are very nice, but
> they are not "close enough" to MOTM appearance for me. Obviously
> others may feel differently.
>
> Of course if Paul S. changes the standard appearance I would have to
> do some soul searching. I really hope that doesn't happen.
>
> skw
>
>

>
> All,
> 
> This is potentially a controversial topic, so please read carefully,
> and don't read anything into it other than what I actually say! 
> I want to have a discussion about the MOTM standard panel finish.

> I'm one of those who has a mix of MOTM, Stooge, and FPE panels.  I like
> the close match to MOTM of the classic Stooge panels, but I tolerate
> FPE, which I have used for the speed of delivery, the ease of specifying
> my own designs, and no need to drill.  Over the last few years, the
> panels I've gotten from FPE have varied in consistency.  I have panels
> in three slightly different anodized finishes, all coming from the same
> black specification in the design file.  I heard (on the Oakley list, I
> believe)  this is normal with anodizing.  Also, the depth (boldness) of
> the engraving marks has changed, the 0.2mm becoming more bold on recent
> panels than they were on earlier ones, so that I have switched entirely
> to 0.2mm.  FPE is pretty good and even they do not make a consistent
> panel.  So I am wondering what sort of consistency might we expect for
> new, anodized, Stooge panels?  I would like the panels I get next year
> to match the ones I bought this year.  The classis Stooge panels were
> pretty consistent in my experience.
>
> I am also wondering if Stooges would make a comparison between some of
> their new ideas and the FPE alternative.  We expect cheaper.  And quick
> (if not *as* quick: FPE is under two weeks).  I undertand they would
> have the holes punched, too, no drilling needed.  How would we submit
> our new designs?  What other differences?  I am waiting on the outcome,
> as I have two projects on hold for panels, and I would rather go with
> the Stooges than FPE.  (I've already submitted the designs for these.)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Richard Brewster
>
> Scott K Warren wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I appreciate that Moe's post is in the spirit of stimulating discussion
>> and I respect that different people may have different views, and that
>> the Stooges are entitled to offer, or not offer, anything they want.
>>
>> Having said that:
>>
>> Call me a reactionary, but I love both the standard MOTM finish and
>> the standard MOTM graphical style, and I am only interested in panels
>> that look like that. I am interested in Stooge panels precisely because
>> they match the standard MOTM appearance. If I wanted other panel
>> appearances i could get them from FrontPanelExpress or a variety of
>> other sources. If Stooge Industries does not offer exact matches for
>> the MOTM appearance, I will find another way to make panels that do.
>>
>> The black anodized panels from FrontPanelExpress are very nice, but
>> they are not "close enough" to MOTM appearance for me. Obviously
>> others may feel differently.
>>
>> Of course if Paul S. changes the standard appearance I would have to
>> do some soul searching. I really hope that doesn't happen.
>>
>> skw
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
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>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: motm@yahoogroups.com [mailto:motm@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> djbrow54
> Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 7:39 PM
> To: motm@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [motm] Re: Future panel options - everyone please read carefully
> (long)
> 
> I have a 56 module system made up of MOTM, Stooge, FrontPanelExpress,
> and others such as Encore and the new Blacet MOTM style.  My issue
> with the FrontPanelExpress is purely cost.  While I don't like the
> black anodized finish, in a system with cables it is really hard to
> tell which is which.  I tend to not use the synthesizer in a brightly
> lit room, though.  The bigger drawback to the black anodized finish is
> the flat color.  It picks up fingerprints terribly.  You can really
> see this in photos.  The fingerprint oil on the surface really
> reflects and they are hard to clean.  A more glossy finish would work
> much better.  The lack of texture on an anodized surface isn't an
> issue for me.
> 
> While other colors would be creative, I'm too simple and would want to
> stay with the black / white.  I have used other colors for some
> legends where it makes sense.
>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: motm@yahoogroups.com [mailto:motm@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul
> Haneberg
> 
> There are many variables in the anodizing process including the time in
> the
> tank, the amount of current applied, the temperature of the acid bath, the
> amount of time in the dye solution and the amount of time in the sealer.
> My
> suspicion would be that FPE may have changed the grade of aluminum or they
> may have changed the manufacturer of the dye.  We would certainly strive
> to
> be consistant.  I would also point out that there are subtle differences
> between MOTM panels made at different times and between Stooge Panels and
> MOTM panels.  Paul S. has changed painters several times.  Not everyone
> has
> the same technique.
> 
> I should also say that powder coating is an option as well, although I
> have
> not compared the quality of graphics on a laser etched anodized panel to
> that of powder coated.  Having the panels painted the same way as they are
> now and then laser etching them is also a possibility, but the cost would
> be
> higher and I doubt the graphics would be quite as sharp.
> 
> Paul H.
>

> Is there a way to test laser etching on the powder coated panel?  One 
> would
> think that the detail wouldn't be any worse than silk screening the powder
> coated panel.  That might be the best of both worlds, laser etched 
> graphics
> and powder coated panels.  I would even buy or reserve units of 1U and 2U
> panels for later etching if that enabled the powder coating.
>
> As far as anodizing variations go, I worked at a power supply company in 
> the
> early 1980s where panels were anodized gold.  There was a lot of variation
> in the process.  More recently the Wiard blue anodized panels have have a
> good degree of variation.  In the few batches of Front Panel Express black
> panels I have not seen much variation, however.
>
> John Loffink
> The Microtonal Synthesis Web Site
> http://www.microtonal-synthesis.com
> The Wavemakers Synthesizer Web Site
> http://www.wavemakers-synth.com
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: motm@yahoogroups.com [mailto:motm@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of 
>> Paul
>> Haneberg
>>
>> There are many variables in the anodizing process including the time in
>> the
>> tank, the amount of current applied, the temperature of the acid bath, 
>> the
>> amount of time in the dye solution and the amount of time in the sealer.
>> My
>> suspicion would be that FPE may have changed the grade of aluminum or 
>> they
>> may have changed the manufacturer of the dye.  We would certainly strive
>> to
>> be consistant.  I would also point out that there are subtle differences
>> between MOTM panels made at different times and between Stooge Panels and
>> MOTM panels.  Paul S. has changed painters several times.  Not everyone
>> has
>> the same technique.
>>
>> I should also say that powder coating is an option as well, although I
>> have
>> not compared the quality of graphics on a laser etched anodized panel to
>> that of powder coated.  Having the panels painted the same way as they 
>> are
>> now and then laser etching them is also a possibility, but the cost would
>> be
>> higher and I doubt the graphics would be quite as sharp.
>>
>> Paul H.
>>
>
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