MOTM

http://www.orbelisk.com/motm

I gave a shot at block flow diagrams for the patches in the examples 
section. Circles as oscillators, Squares as controls, and diamonds as 
filters. They're ment as general overviews of the topology of the patch, 
not proofs.

I'm not sure yet how to formalize this into any sort of guidline or 
spec, but I agree that the combination of detailed platform specific 
diagrams and flow diagrams together are better.

Have fun!

--mikes

Just to see how Roland does their block diagrams, here is a scan from a
typical patch of theirs (Doepfer is very similar).  Everything is in squares
but mixers and VCAs are triangles and voltage inverters are a triangle with
a bubble on the end (in other words, a digital inverter symbol).  If you
want to stay standard and keep in line with what's already out there, this
would be the way to do block diagrams.

http://home.att.net/~elhardt6/Roland_Patchsheet.jpg

-Elhardt

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005, Kenneth Elhardt wrote:
> Just to see how Roland does their block diagrams, here is a scan from a
> typical patch of theirs (Doepfer is very similar).  Everything is in squares
> but mixers and VCAs are triangles and voltage inverters are a triangle with
> a bubble on the end (in other words, a digital inverter symbol).  If you
> want to stay standard and keep in line with what's already out there, this
> would be the way to do block diagrams.

Thanks!

Does anyone have an opinion one way or another about this? On one 
hand, just using blocks makes a lot sense, mostly because it can get 
pretty ambiguous as to what group things belong in. What does the 
frequency shifter belong in? Osc or Filter? On the other hand, I think 
it's a little easier to read with some catagorization.

In my example patches I use a circle (osc) to both represent a 440 
(it's in self res) and a 300.

--mikes

>Does anyone have an opinion one way or another about this? On one
>hand, just using blocks makes a lot sense, mostly because it can get
>pretty ambiguous as to what group things belong in. What does the
>frequency shifter belong in? Osc or Filter? On the other hand, I think
>it's a little easier to read with some catagorization.
>
>In my example patches I use a circle (osc) to both represent a 440
>(it's in self res) and a 300.

Signal sources (oscillators, noise generators, microphone) are often 
represented with a circle. Modifiers (VCF, VCA, inverter) are often 
represented with a triangle (like an op amp). Controllers (ADSR, 
keyboard, sequencer, bias source) are often represented with a 
rectangle. But eventually even this breaks down because LFOs can be 
considered controllers at low frequency or signal sources at audible 
frequency. I think one needs to use the appropriate symbol for the 
module on a per-patch basis. Ask yourself, "Self, is this generating 
an audio signal, generating a control signal, or modifying a signal?" 
Other conventions are that audio signals enter at the left and exit 
at the right of a module. Control signals exit at the left and enter 
at the bottom of a module (but I've got many examples showing control 
signals exiting anywhere). I'll post some scans within the next few 
days.

On Wednesday 15 June 2005 18:16, Scott Juskiw wrote:

> Ask yourself, "Self, is this generating
> an audio signal, generating a control signal, or
> modifying a signal?"

Heh :)

- Robert

Regarding the Roland schemo patch documentation jpg,

It seems that audio is going from left to right and cv's, gates etc come into modules from the bottom. This should be standardized as well to make digestability quick and easy.

~Steve

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You wouldn't happen to have this sound as an MP3 anywhere? I was trying to 
recreate the patch on my MOTM, but the slider positions mean nothing to me 
as I don't have a roland modular ;) I might have recreated, I might not 
have. I have no idea.

It's interesting to see how reading a patch from the past works in 
practice.

--mikes

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005, Kenneth Elhardt wrote:
> Just to see how Roland does their block diagrams, here is a scan from a
> typical patch of theirs (Doepfer is very similar).  Everything is in squares
> but mixers and VCAs are triangles and voltage inverters are a triangle with
> a bubble on the end (in other words, a digital inverter symbol).  If you
> want to stay standard and keep in line with what's already out there, this
> would be the way to do block diagrams.
>
> http://home.att.net/~elhardt6/Roland_Patchsheet.jpg
>
> -Elhardt
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Steve Maietta writes:
>>It seems that audio is going from left to right and cv's, gates etc come
into modules from the bottom.  This should be standardized as well to make
digestability quick and easy.<<

Yeah, that's the way it should be done.  But it is amazing how many people
fight against that most logical way of thinking when it comes to placing
modules in their synth.  There have been entire threads where people argue
against left to right flow and control coming from the bottom.  Go figure.

Mike Estee writes:
>>You wouldn't happen to have this sound as an MP3 anywhere? I was trying to
recreate the patch on my MOTM, but the slider positions mean nothing to me
as I don't have a roland modular ;) I might have recreated, I might not
have. I have no idea.<<

Nope.  The Roland books didn't come with any tapes/records.  For a synth
other than theirs, you just have to look at the basic patch connections and
then set knobs by ear.

Scott Juskiw writes:
>>Signal sources (oscillators, noise generators, microphone) are often
represented with a circle. Modifiers (VCF, VCA, inverter) are often
represented with a triangle (like an op amp). Controllers (ADSR, keyboard,
sequencer, bias source) are often represented with a rectangle. But
eventually even this breaks down because LFOs can be considered controllers
at low frequency or signal sources at audible frequency.<<

Some of this also makes sense.  However I noticed they don't use a triangle
for mixers.  Since a mixer takes several signals in at the left and output
one to the right, a triangle makes most sense there.  And as you point out
there are lots of modules that don't fit any catagory, such as sequential
swithes, s/h modules, ring modulators, delay lines, and so on.  Perhaps
squares/rectangles for all misc modules.

-Elhardt