MOTM

I just took delivery of a nice used Digi-001 with Pro Tools LE.  Now I need 
a decent pair of headphones to monitor my recordings.  What can you 
recommend?  Someone told me Sony was good.  I was looking at these:

http://www.samedaymusic.com/product--SNYMDR7506

But if you read the review comments, some say, "Great mids and highs for a 
set of cans at this price. But, bass is artificially boomy."  I do NOT want 
boomy bass.  So who to believe.  Advise me, folks.  My upper price boundary 
is in the $200 ballpark.

Thanks,

-Richard Brewster

Richard Brewster writes:
>>Now I need a decent pair of headphones to monitor my recordings.  What can 
you recommend?  Someone told me Sony was good.  I was looking at these:...But 
if you read the review comments, some say, "Great mids and highs for a set of 
cans at this price. But, bass is artificially boomy."  I do NOT want boomy 
bass.  So who to believe.<<

I've been using the consumer version (MDR-V6) of the 7506 for years.  When I 
bought the 7506 I noticed the more boomy bass and I needed to turn my bass 
control down.  But I still think they are the way to go.  The AKG K240 is 
popular, but having just bought a pair, I would say stay away from them. The 
AKG sounds like its running through an EQ with the mid bands curved down and 
the very bottom band or two boosted way up. It's the only set of headphones 
I've owned in my life where I can't use the loudness control on my stereo.  
Boomy bass and lack of midrange punch I would say about the AKGs.

Also just bought a pair of Sennheiser's new HD280 Pro.  Doesn't seem to have 
as boomy a bass as Sony (but haven't done a side by side comparison), and 
they sound good.  They sell for $90 at 8th Street Music.

However none of those above are flat response mixing headphones.  If you want 
flat response you'll have to look to Audio-technica ATH-M40fs or others like 
them.  But being flat response they have that boring and boxy studio monitor 
sound to them.

-Elhardt

> I just took delivery of a nice used Digi-001 with Pro Tools LE.  Now I need
> a decent pair of headphones to monitor my recordings.  What can you
> recommend?  Someone told me Sony was good.  I was looking at these:
>
> http://www.samedaymusic.com/product--SNYMDR7506
>
> But if you read the review comments, some say, "Great mids and highs for a
> set of cans at this price. But, bass is artificially boomy."  I do NOT want
> boomy bass.  So who to believe.  Advise me, folks.  My upper price boundary
> is in the $200 ballpark.

Advice I've given to everyone - everything *BUT* Sony headphones
(boom/sizzle/fatiguging). Check out a set of AKGs or Sennheisers.

-->Neil

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Neil Bradley             Will work for modules
Synthcom Systems, Inc.
ICQ #29402898

I tried those Sony headphones in a store and found them quite bass 
heavy. I bought the AKG K240 instead. I bought the 600 ohm version. 
They now have a 50 ohm version of the K240 out.

At 7:36 PM -0400 2003/10/07, Richard Brewster wrote:

>I just took delivery of a nice used Digi-001 with Pro Tools LE.  Now I need
>a decent pair of headphones to monitor my recordings.  What can you
>recommend?  Someone told me Sony was good.  I was looking at these:
>
>http://www.samedaymusic.com/product--SNYMDR7506
>
>But if you read the review comments, some say, "Great mids and highs for a
>set of cans at this price. But, bass is artificially boomy."  I do NOT want
>boomy bass.  So who to believe.  Advise me, folks.  My upper price boundary
>is in the $200 ballpark.
>

I don't know if you're talking about the M's or DF's, but both are certainly better 
than you characterize. These are 600 ohm phones, so they do take some 
drive, probably a good bit more than you're getting from your "stereo." Also, 
many (most?) "stereos" are far from flat at the speaker and HP outs. Both 
240's have response down to 15 Hz, which may account for what you call 
"boomy bass." I've been using the same two pair of 240m's for almost 20 
years to reference tracking, mixing and mastering sessions and they've never 
let me down - unless what they are plugged into doesn't have enough power, 
can't handle their relatively low impedance or has a consumer "smiley" curve. 
There are reasons that they are "popular" among professionals- they're tough 
and they sound good. IMO, it takes months, if not years, to get used to any 
critical listening monitoring environment - especially headphones. For 
starters, get a real headphone amp and try to become accustomed to 
"flatness." OTOH, if you're not doing professional and/or critical listening, buy 
and use whatever sounds the best to you.

B a r r y S t r a m p

--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, elhardt@a... wrote:
> The AKG K240 is 
> popular, but having just bought a pair, I would say stay away from them. The 
> AKG sounds like its running through an EQ with the mid bands curved down 
and 

> the very bottom band or two boosted way up. It's the only set of headphones 
> I've owned in my life where I can't use the loudness control on my stereo.  
> Boomy bass and lack of midrange punch I would say about the AKGs.
> -Elhardt

Richard,

I would agree with Elhardt that the AKG K240 is a poor choice. However, 
the updated K270 is quite nice and under $200.

Scott
----------------------------------------------------------
Richard Brewster wrote:

> I just took delivery of a nice used Digi-001 with Pro Tools LE.  Now I need 
> a decent pair of headphones to monitor my recordings.  What can you 
> recommend?  Someone told me Sony was good.  I was looking at these:
> 
> http://www.samedaymusic.com/product--SNYMDR7506
> 
> But if you read the review comments, some say, "Great mids and highs for a 
> set of cans at this price. But, bass is artificially boomy."  I do NOT want 
> boomy bass.  So who to believe.  Advise me, folks.  My upper price boundary 
> is in the $200 ballpark.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -Richard Brewster
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
>

Beyer Dynamic DT 770 PRO.

If recording acoustic sound sources, such as vocals/guitar/etc., you 
might want fully enclosed headphones to limit the amount of bleed 
from headphones into the microphone.


Simon
Canberra
AUSTRALIA

hello all,
well imho for a fully enclosed design it has to be Beyer DT series all the
way, though these are damn uncomfortable if what you're after is just
something to monitor your tracks into the small hours of the morning -
otherwise i have a pair of AKG 240DF ('extended response') and i'm happy -
they're comfy for extended periods, maybe a little bright, but i'd assume
that's an inherent problem in headphone design.

cheers
paul b
sheffield
uk

----- Original Message -----

From: "Simon" <simon@...>
To: <motm@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 7:53 AM
Subject: Re: [motm] Monitor headphones for recording


> Beyer Dynamic DT 770 PRO.
>
> If recording acoustic sound sources, such as vocals/guitar/etc., you
> might want fully enclosed headphones to limit the amount of bleed
> from headphones into the microphone.
>
>
> Simon
> Canberra
> AUSTRALIA
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

I use the AKG K270 studio headphones, work great for mixing.

Regards,

Josue.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sikorsky" <vulture.squadron@...>
To: <motm@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 11:53 AM
Subject: Re: [motm] Monitor headphones for recording


> hello all,
> well imho for a fully enclosed design it has to be Beyer DT series all the
> way, though these are damn uncomfortable if what you're after is just
> something to monitor your tracks into the small hours of the morning -
> otherwise i have a pair of AKG 240DF ('extended response') and i'm happy -
> they're comfy for extended periods, maybe a little bright, but i'd assume
> that's an inherent problem in headphone design.
>
> cheers
> paul b
> sheffield
> uk
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Simon" <simon@...>
> To: <motm@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 7:53 AM
> Subject: Re: [motm] Monitor headphones for recording
>
>
> > Beyer Dynamic DT 770 PRO.
> >
> > If recording acoustic sound sources, such as vocals/guitar/etc., you
> > might want fully enclosed headphones to limit the amount of bleed
> > from headphones into the microphone.
> >
> >
> > Simon
> > Canberra
> > AUSTRALIA
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

--- Richard Brewster <pugix@...> wrote:
> I just took delivery of a nice used Digi-001 with
> Pro Tools LE.  Now I need 
> a decent pair of headphones to monitor my
> recordings.  What can you 
> recommend?  Someone told me Sony was good.  I was
> looking at these:
> 
> http://www.samedaymusic.com/product--SNYMDR7506
> 
> But if you read the review comments, some say,
> "Great mids and highs for a 
> set of cans at this price. But, bass is artificially
> boomy."  I do NOT want 
> boomy bass.  So who to believe.  Advise me, folks. 
> My upper price boundary 
> is in the $200 ballpark.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -Richard Brewster
> 
> Log onto   www.headphone.com
they give food advise and decent prices

John
> 


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com

I use the SONY MDR7506.  I have 8 pair in the two studios.  I also 
have 4 pair of an older Fostex headphone which are not as nice. The 
Sonys sound great.  
Now I use these to monitor while I am recording, to listen to 
existing tracks as well as what I am playing.  I do not mix with 
headphones at all, although I will sometimes listen to a completed 
mix through headphones as well as on a variety of speakers.  I don't 
recommend mixing through headphones, a decent set of monitor 
speakers will get you a better mix.
I have tried a variety of headphones over the years, the Sonys are 
the best IMHO for monitoring while recording.

I have both the Sony MDR-V6 and the Audio-Technica ATH-M40fs.  The Sony's are "fun" to listen to music with but the Audio-Technica's are great for knowing (monitoring) what the signal really sounds like.

BSW has a great price on the ATH-M40fs:

http://www.bswusa.com/prod_item.asp?item=ATHM40FS

Hard to beat for the money!  I agree that Beyer and others have super headphones, but for less than a single pair I bought the Sony and the Audio-Technica.

And I tend to agree with some others here, the AKG's don't do much for me.  They are studio standards, but the top-end sounds very subdued to me.

Ivan

> I just took delivery of a nice used Digi-001 with Pro Tools LE.  Now I 
> need
> a decent pair of headphones to monitor my recordings.  What can you
> recommend?  Someone told me Sony was good.  I was looking at these:
>
> http://www.samedaymusic.com/product--SNYMDR7506
>
> But if you read the review comments, some say, "Great mids and highs 
> for a
> set of cans at this price. But, bass is artificially boomy."  I do NOT 
> want
> boomy bass.  So who to believe.  Advise me, folks.  My upper price 
> boundary
> is in the $200 ballpark.

Talk about opening up a can of worms.

Headphones are like monitor speakers - everybody's got their own 
favorites.

I own 2 pair of 7506's, and while they're fine for monitoring while 
tracking or just listening to music, I would -not- recommend trying to 
mix through them. It's not that the bass is artificially boomy, it's 
that the mids are scooped -just- enough to throw everything else out of 
balance.

I've auditioned two different pair of the top of the line Sennheisers. 
I forget the model number, but they were both very false.

AKG's are good, similar to the Fostex T-40's, but they're quite flat. 
Singers love them for that reason - they can hear themselves.

My new favorite headphone, as turned on to me by the FOH mixer for the 
B-52's (a guy who's been doing this for as long as I've been alive and 
who's opinion I trust completely) is the Sony MDR-V700. They're 
marketed as a DJ headphone, but ignore that part. They're about $130 at 
Guitar Center or $150 at Best Buy. A big step up from the 7506/V6, and 
certainly worth a listen.

e

First, thanks to everyone who replied.  Great information!

Yes, the ATHM40FS looks pretty good to me, too.  And a good price.  I think 
I'll start with those.

-Richard Brewster

At 02:12 PM 10/8/03 -0400, ivancu@... wrote:

>I have both the Sony MDR-V6 and the Audio-Technica ATH-M40fs.  The Sony's 
>are "fun" to listen to music with but the Audio-Technica's are great for 
>knowing (monitoring) what the signal really sounds like.
>
>BSW has a great price on the ATH-M40fs:
>
>http://www.bswusa.com/prod_item.asp?item=ATHM40FS
>
>Hard to beat for the money!  I agree that Beyer and others have super 
>headphones, but for less than a single pair I bought the Sony and the 
>Audio-Technica.
>
>And I tend to agree with some others here, the AKG's don't do much for 
>me.  They are studio standards, but the top-end sounds very subdued to me.
>
>Ivan
>

Neil Bradley writes:
>>Advice I've given to everyone - everything *BUT* Sony headphones
(boom/sizzle/fatiguging).<<

It's the consumer version MDR-V6 that has sizzle.  The 7506 aren't as 
bright.  And gatiguging may have more to do with what's being listened 
through them.

Scott Juskiw wites:
>>I tried those Sony headphones in a store and found them quite bass heavy.<<

They are, but turning down a bass control helps get rid of that.  That's why 
I like to have several different headphones and regular monitor speakers.  I 
can use the Sony's when I work, but at the end I can compare to something 
else to be sure using Sony's doesn't cause my sounds to be too bass light.

coyoteous writes:
>>I don't know if you're talking about the M's or DF's, but both are 
certainly better than you characterize. These are 600 ohm phones, so they do 
take some drive, probably a good bit more than you're getting from 
your "stereo."<<

I bought the 50 ohm version just to be sure I wouldn't have trouble driving 
the. When comparing them to the others, the AKG lacked mid range.  And as I 
said before, if I hit the loudness button, it's like piling two loudness 
circuits ontop of each other because of the AKG response.  I just wouldn't 
trust that I'm getting a close representation of my sound through AKG 240K.

But as you can see there are as many different opionions as there are 
headphones.  Isn't that always the case.

-Elhardt

FWIW I use the AKGs and a pair of Senheissers.  I prefer the AKGs by 
far as they are flat.  If you are mixing and have to "turn down" the 
bass to get the right response from your headphones, then you'll get 
a great mix: for those headphones!  For mixing, flat response is what 
I look for.  Same with monitors.  

On the other hand, as long as you are used to the response of your 
monitors/headphones and have learned to make great mixes on them, 
then pretty much anything will work.  The issue is then fatigue, 
comfort, etc. so choose what you like best in that department.

Mike

--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, elhardt@a... wrote:
> Neil Bradley writes:
> >>Advice I've given to everyone - everything *BUT* Sony headphones
> (boom/sizzle/fatiguging).<<
> 
> It's the consumer version MDR-V6 that has sizzle.  The 7506 aren't 
as 
> bright.  And gatiguging may have more to do with what's being 
listened 
> through them.
> 
> Scott Juskiw wites:
> >>I tried those Sony headphones in a store and found them quite 
bass heavy.<<
> 
> They are, but turning down a bass control helps get rid of that.  
That's why 
> I like to have several different headphones and regular monitor 
speakers.  I 
> can use the Sony's when I work, but at the end I can compare to 
something 
> else to be sure using Sony's doesn't cause my sounds to be too bass 
light.
> 
> coyoteous writes:
> >>I don't know if you're talking about the M's or DF's, but both 
are 
> certainly better than you characterize. These are 600 ohm phones, 
so they do 
> take some drive, probably a good bit more than you're getting from 
> your "stereo."<<
> 
> I bought the 50 ohm version just to be sure I wouldn't have trouble 
driving 
> the. When comparing them to the others, the AKG lacked mid range.  
And as I 
> said before, if I hit the loudness button, it's like piling two 
loudness 
> circuits ontop of each other because of the AKG response.  I just 
wouldn't 
> trust that I'm getting a close representation of my sound through 
AKG 240K.
> 
> But as you can see there are as many different opionions as there 
are 

> headphones.  Isn't that always the case.
> 
> -Elhardt

I can't find any reference to the 240K and like I said, I have old 240M's. I still 
think you might be surprised by how yours sound with a good headphone 
amp, rather than a "stereo." Yes, some of what I brought up is opinion, but 
much is fact. My point is that to recommend someone "stay away from the 
AKG's" based on a possibly flawed assessment is somewhat ludicrous. To 
answer the original poster: the Digi 001 seems to have adequate drive for the 
240M's and the combination sounds good and relatively accurate to me. Also, 
when I said "relatively low impedance," that should have been "relatively high 
impedance." Perhaps 50 ohm and/or new M's (if that's what you have) sound 
different than my old ones. Notice that one person said they were too bright 
and another too dull - go figger...

B a r r y S t r a m p

--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, elhardt@a... wrote:
> coyoteous writes:
> >>I don't know if you're talking about the M's or DF's, but both are 
> certainly better than you characterize. These are 600 ohm phones, so they 
do 
> take some drive, probably a good bit more than you're getting from 
> your "stereo."<<
> 
> I bought the 50 ohm version just to be sure I wouldn't have trouble driving 
> the. When comparing them to the others, the AKG lacked mid range.  And as 
I 

> said before, if I hit the loudness button, it's like piling two loudness 
> circuits ontop of each other because of the AKG response.  I just wouldn't 
> trust that I'm getting a close representation of my sound through AKG 240K.
> 
> But as you can see there are as many different opionions as there are 
> headphones.  Isn't that always the case.
> 
> -Elhardt

> On the other hand, as long as you are used to the response of your
> monitors/headphones and have learned to make great mixes on them,
> then pretty much anything will work.  The issue is then fatigue,
> comfort, etc. so choose what you like best in that department.

Comfort is an issue not to be underestimated. Besides the obvious issue of
wearing something on your head for extended periods of time, there are more
subtle issues. I stopped using my MDR V6s because the padding around their
ear cups would push the pointy end of my earring against the side of
skull--ouch! I bought a pair of K240Ms because they have oversized ear cups
and hence do not have the same problem.

(I like the K240M for general-purpose monitoring, and I use a set of
Beyerdynamic DT770 'phones for more critical monitoring. They have better
isolation and more detail than the AKGs. Both have ear-cup padding that is
large enough to go all the way around my ear without the earring problem.)

--Adam