MOTM

I've been a Kyma user for a long time. My current Kyma has 8 I/O 16DSP. 
Now I'm finally paired up with my new 24module MOTM system.
It's a great combo. To make the two systems even more intuitively 
patchable I'm having a small MOTM style patch bay mounted in my system 
(highly recommended).

The two systems complement each other very well. Kyma's analog style 
filters are not even close to MOTM's. Same goes for the oscillators. 
However Kyma is truly amazing when it comes to  DSP processing, FFT and 
MIDI scripting. And when you feel the need for a 200 band channel 
vocoder or a granular instrument with 600 overlapping (live) streams, 
then Kyma is your pretty much your only choice.

As a controller for the two of them I use a custom modified Radio Baton 
from Max Mathews.

So who else out there has the same dual love?

Cheers!
Tobias


Tentochi wrote:

> How many MOTM users out there also own or use a Kyma system?  I think 
> this is a
> great pairing (which has been briefly mentioned here before)?
>
> --Shemp (please don't shake me or stir me!)
>
> P.S.
>
> > as a monsterious fm-radio processor and distorted feedback loop-- which
> > culminated in blowing out a PA speaker.
>
> Ah!  The perfect use for MOTM systems!  MOTM is used to similar effect 
> to shake
> the hell out of Disney Sea's volcano (Tokyo).
>
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Howdy All -

Apologies to the analog purists that this is sure to offend.

Is there anybody using this combination?  I heard from Carla S at 
Symbolic that there is at least one person perhaps in the LA area 
doing this.

Mike

Yep, I'm right here in LA =)  Kyma and MOTM working together, and it's 
beautiful!

Tobias

Mike Marsh wrote:

> Howdy All -
>
> Apologies to the analog purists that this is sure to offend.
>
> Is there anybody using this combination?  I heard from Carla S at
> Symbolic that there is at least one person perhaps in the LA area
> doing this.
>
> Mike
>
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Hi Mike,

I would be another one of the Kyma-ites. Since May of 2001. I've 
sliced and diced quite a few MOTM tracks with that lil' black box!

:)

-Russell

--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Marsh" <mmarsh@w...> wrote:

> Howdy All -
> 
> Apologies to the analog purists that this is sure to offend.
> 
> Is there anybody using this combination?  I heard from Carla S at 
> Symbolic that there is at least one person perhaps in the LA area 
> doing this.
> 
> Mike

Hey Russell -

It turns out that Kyma is a complete MONSTER.  I've had such a good 
time with it.  The ultimate effects processor in that if you can 
imagine a sound, Kyma can produce it.  How about Granular Reverb?  
Yup, and it sounds bitchin' when applied to my MOTM.  Everyone is 
waiting for the Frequency Shifter: no brainer!  

I'm also very impressed with the ADC/DACs on this puppy.  Very sweet 
sounding!

It's gonna take years to master, though, if that's even possible.

Mike

--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "pacificamsx" <pacificamsx@e...> wrote:

> Hi Mike,
> 
> I would be another one of the Kyma-ites. Since May of 2001. I've 
> sliced and diced quite a few MOTM tracks with that lil' black box!
> 
> :)
> 
> -Russell
> 
> --- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Marsh" <mmarsh@w...> wrote:
> > Howdy All -
> > 
> > Apologies to the analog purists that this is sure to offend.
> > 
> > Is there anybody using this combination?  I heard from Carla S at 
> > Symbolic that there is at least one person perhaps in the LA area 
> > doing this.
> > 
> > Mike

You've seen the light, now you know... Welcome to the Kyma/MOTM family!
I use this setup a lot in surround. I have a whole array of templates 
for creating surround instruments out of MOTM mono outputs.
Another thing to try is random quantized Kyma sequencing based on the 
output signal from the MOTM, and then output the MIDI back to the MOTM. 
That can keep you going for weeks!
What happens with Kyma users is that they become experts in their own 
tangents of experimenting. It's always the same, you show your stuff to 
other Kyma users and they say, wow!!!! How did you do that!! Next moment 
they show you what they do with their system, and you instantly feel 
your jaw drop and an urgent need to run home and read the manual!

Tobias


Mike Marsh wrote:

> Hey Russell -
>
> It turns out that Kyma is a complete MONSTER.  I've had such a good
> time with it.  The ultimate effects processor in that if you can
> imagine a sound, Kyma can produce it.  How about Granular Reverb? 
> Yup, and it sounds bitchin' when applied to my MOTM.  Everyone is
> waiting for the Frequency Shifter: no brainer! 
>
> I'm also very impressed with the ADC/DACs on this puppy.  Very sweet
> sounding!
>
> It's gonna take years to master, though, if that's even possible.
>
> Mike
>
> --- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "pacificamsx" <pacificamsx@e...> wrote:
> > Hi Mike,
> >
> > I would be another one of the Kyma-ites. Since May of 2001. I've
> > sliced and diced quite a few MOTM tracks with that lil' black box!
> >
> > :)
> >
> > -Russell
> >
> > --- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Marsh" <mmarsh@w...> wrote:
> > > Howdy All -
> > >
> > > Apologies to the analog purists that this is sure to offend.
> > >
> > > Is there anybody using this combination?  I heard from Carla S at
> > > Symbolic that there is at least one person perhaps in the LA area
> > > doing this.
> > >
> > > Mike
>
>
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Hi Robert -

After a couple of years of lusting, I finally took delivery of my 
Kyma a couple of weeks ago.  In short, yes it's as good as all the 
hype.  In fact, it's better.  The sound is rich and articulate, the 
ADC/DACs are very, very good.  ANything my little brain could imagine 
(granular revreb? Yes!  ALter my the frequency of my voice in real 
time by pressing keys on a MIDI keyboard?  Yes! etc. etc. etc.)

The learning is pretty huge, but that's more than half the fun!  
There are many levels to the beast and you can make new, creative 
stuff at any of them.  From tweaking the existing 1,000 sounds to 
programming your own primitives in DSP assembly and all points in 
between.

It's expandable, too!

In conjunction with my MOTM rig (roughly 40 modules worth and still 
growing) and my Ztar MIDI Guitar Controller, I'm in Hog Heaven.  Note 
that the analog synthesis on the Kyma, though serviceable, is nowhere 
near what MOTM is, so the combination of both makes for an all around 
great sound creation environment.

Mike

At 3:58 PM +0000 2003/09/30, Mike Marsh wrote:
>The learning is pretty huge, but that's more than half the fun! 
>There are many levels to the beast and you can make new, creative
>stuff at any of them.  From tweaking the existing 1,000 sounds to
>programming your own primitives in DSP assembly and all points in
>between.

I'm wondering how the Kyma compares to something like the Soundart 
Chameleon in terms of developing custom applications with DSP. I was 
thinking about getting a Chameleon, but if the Kyma can do all that 
and more, hmmmmm......

On Sep 30, 2003, at 10:10 AM, Scott Juskiw wrote:

> At 3:58 PM +0000 2003/09/30, Mike Marsh wrote:
>> The learning is pretty huge, but that's more than half the fun!
>> There are many levels to the beast and you can make new, creative
>> stuff at any of them.  From tweaking the existing 1,000 sounds to
>> programming your own primitives in DSP assembly and all points in
>> between.
>
> I'm wondering how the Kyma compares to something like the Soundart
> Chameleon in terms of developing custom applications with DSP. I was
> thinking about getting a Chameleon, but if the Kyma can do all that
> and more, hmmmmm......

Different beasts. The Kyma is more comparable to an Eventide Orville 
than a Chameleon. The Soundart box is great to play with if you enjoy 
DSP programming. There are no fancy GUI tools, no drag and drop wires 
to connect up. The DSP on the Soundart box is rather wimpy (56303) by 
todays standards, also, you can't pull anything higher than 24/48. The 
Kyma on the other hand can basically grow to fit the size of your 
pocket book. On the other hand, the cost of the Chameleon is about what 
you'll pay in sales tax for a Kyma setup...

--mikes

Robert, ditto on what Mike just said.
Kyma is great for digital processing and MAX MSP like automated events. 
Anything surround and Kyma rules! The converters do sound really good! 
There are some new VCO primitives witch sound ok, and you could 
potentially build your own high end analog models. But analog modeling 
is not the stronghold of Kyma (requires lots of DSP to get it right, and 
still not the same), for that you should stick to MOTM. I don't think it 
will replace any of your existing gear, because the of particular way 
you work with Kyma. This is not your 'basic meat and potato" studio 
gear, but more a new sonic "cherry on top" cornerstone in your rig.

If you buy a Kyma i highly recommend adding a few extra DSP cards to 
allow for more complex algorithms and higher clock rate (up to 100kHz)

I use a combo of an expanded Kyma (8 I/O, 18DSP's) with a 26 module MOTM 
(still growing) with a Kyma IO patch bay showing up as a MOTM panel 
(modified mult). My next step is to also add a Kyma MIDI to CV patch bay 
in my MOTM.
As a MIDI controller I use a modified Max Mathews Radio Baton.

The Kyma/MOTM combo works great as a "mad scientist playground", but it 
also makes sense practically because of the computer integration. Most 
of us end up with our creations as a computer file in a pro tools 
session or similar. Why not capture it through something that both 
sounds good and adds a creative element.

Good luck!
Tobias




Mike Marsh wrote:

> Hi Robert -
>
> After a couple of years of lusting, I finally took delivery of my
> Kyma a couple of weeks ago.  In short, yes it's as good as all the
> hype.  In fact, it's better.  The sound is rich and articulate, the
> ADC/DACs are very, very good.  ANything my little brain could imagine
> (granular revreb? Yes!  ALter my the frequency of my voice in real
> time by pressing keys on a MIDI keyboard?  Yes! etc. etc. etc.)
>
> The learning is pretty huge, but that's more than half the fun! 
> There are many levels to the beast and you can make new, creative
> stuff at any of them.  From tweaking the existing 1,000 sounds to
> programming your own primitives in DSP assembly and all points in
> between.
>
> It's expandable, too!
>
> In conjunction with my MOTM rig (roughly 40 modules worth and still
> growing) and my Ztar MIDI Guitar Controller, I'm in Hog Heaven.  Note
> that the analog synthesis on the Kyma, though serviceable, is nowhere
> near what MOTM is, so the combination of both makes for an all around
> great sound creation environment.
>
> Mike
>
>
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Hey Tobias -

We would all *love* to hear some samples of your work!  It will be a 
gas to hear the MOTM in the theater, too...

Mike

--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, Tobias Enhus <tobias@m...> wrote:
> Learning curve is pretty high, but you can choose your own level. 
It's 
> like a bag of onions. A whole bunch of instruments that you can 
peel and 
> modify all the way down to pure assembly code if wanted 
(nirvana?!). 
> Once you have an instrument it's the easiest thing in the world to 
run it.
> It's a hefty investment , but in return Symbolic sound has the most 
> generous upgrade system I know of. Sure the new G5 is probably 
faster 
> than current basic Kyma platform, but not for long. And when the 
upgrade 
> happens you will be able to trade in your old Capybara for a 
nominal 
> fee, even if you bought the Kyma used on ebay! Same goes for 
software 
> updates (lots of it. at least 6 times a year). That's more than you 
can 
> say about your Mac or PC.
> 
> I just finished a score for a movie called "Blind Horizon", where 
more 
> or less all synth sounds have been created with the MOTM / Kyma rig 
and 
> Csound. Some stuff augmented with an old Fairlight III (melotron 
choir 
> and cello).
> The movie is a spy thriller with Wal Kilmer and Fay Dhunaway 
hitting 
> theaters after Xmas.
> You can hear the MOTM growl in all the pads and basses. I also used 
alot 
> of MOTM for explosive FX hits. Most of the wind sounds are pure 
MOTM 
> with Kyma surround treatment.  I'll see if I can figure out how to 
post 
> stuff on the yahoo group, if so I can through up some sound 
examples for 
> you to check out.
> 
> Tobias
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mike Estee wrote:
> 
> >
> > On Sep 30, 2003, at 10:10 AM, Scott Juskiw wrote:
> >
> > > At 3:58 PM +0000 2003/09/30, Mike Marsh wrote:
> > >> The learning is pretty huge, but that's more than half the fun!
> > >> There are many levels to the beast and you can make new, 
creative
> > >> stuff at any of them.  From tweaking the existing 1,000 sounds 
to
> > >> programming your own primitives in DSP assembly and all points 
in
> > >> between.
> > >
> > > I'm wondering how the Kyma compares to something like the 
Soundart
> > > Chameleon in terms of developing custom applications with DSP. 
I was
> > > thinking about getting a Chameleon, but if the Kyma can do all 
that
> > > and more, hmmmmm......
> >
> > Different beasts. The Kyma is more comparable to an Eventide 
Orville
> > than a Chameleon. The Soundart box is great to play with if you 
enjoy
> > DSP programming. There are no fancy GUI tools, no drag and drop 
wires
> > to connect up. The DSP on the Soundart box is rather wimpy 
(56303) by
> > todays standards, also, you can't pull anything higher than 
24/48. The
> > Kyma on the other hand can basically grow to fit the size of your
> > pocket book. On the other hand, the cost of the Chameleon is 
about what
> > you'll pay in sales tax for a Kyma setup...
> >
> > --mikes
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > 
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Service 
> > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.

Learning curve is pretty high, but you can choose your own level. It's 
like a bag of onions. A whole bunch of instruments that you can peel and 
modify all the way down to pure assembly code if wanted (nirvana?!). 
Once you have an instrument it's the easiest thing in the world to run it.
It's a hefty investment , but in return Symbolic sound has the most 
generous upgrade system I know of. Sure the new G5 is probably faster 
than current basic Kyma platform, but not for long. And when the upgrade 
happens you will be able to trade in your old Capybara for a nominal 
fee, even if you bought the Kyma used on ebay! Same goes for software 
updates (lots of it. at least 6 times a year). That's more than you can 
say about your Mac or PC.

I just finished a score for a movie called "Blind Horizon", where more 
or less all synth sounds have been created with the MOTM / Kyma rig and 
Csound. Some stuff augmented with an old Fairlight III (melotron choir 
and cello).
The movie is a spy thriller with Wal Kilmer and Fay Dhunaway hitting 
theaters after Xmas.
You can hear the MOTM growl in all the pads and basses. I also used alot 
of MOTM for explosive FX hits. Most of the wind sounds are pure MOTM 
with Kyma surround treatment.  I'll see if I can figure out how to post 
stuff on the yahoo group, if so I can through up some sound examples for 
you to check out.

Tobias




Mike Estee wrote:

>
> On Sep 30, 2003, at 10:10 AM, Scott Juskiw wrote:
>
> > At 3:58 PM +0000 2003/09/30, Mike Marsh wrote:
> >> The learning is pretty huge, but that's more than half the fun!
> >> There are many levels to the beast and you can make new, creative
> >> stuff at any of them.  From tweaking the existing 1,000 sounds to
> >> programming your own primitives in DSP assembly and all points in
> >> between.
> >
> > I'm wondering how the Kyma compares to something like the Soundart
> > Chameleon in terms of developing custom applications with DSP. I was
> > thinking about getting a Chameleon, but if the Kyma can do all that
> > and more, hmmmmm......
>
> Different beasts. The Kyma is more comparable to an Eventide Orville
> than a Chameleon. The Soundart box is great to play with if you enjoy
> DSP programming. There are no fancy GUI tools, no drag and drop wires
> to connect up. The DSP on the Soundart box is rather wimpy (56303) by
> todays standards, also, you can't pull anything higher than 24/48. The
> Kyma on the other hand can basically grow to fit the size of your
> pocket book. On the other hand, the cost of the Chameleon is about what
> you'll pay in sales tax for a Kyma setup...
>
> --mikes
>
>
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I just looked at the SoundArt - also an interesting box.  Kyma has a 
better interface (actually, a really good one) and a minimum of 4 
DSPs with 96 MEgs of memory.  It also has 4 analog inputs, 4 outputs 
(can you say MOTM in quad?!?), 2 digitla IOs (AES/EBU or SPDIF), and 
FireWire to the computer.  The 4 ins are very cool for taking the 4 
outs of the MOTM-410, for example :)

Programming is different, too.  You can visually program by dragging 
and dropping, script using SmallTalk, build Sound primitives in C/C++ 
and ultimately build stuff in DSP (Motorola).

The system is more costly than the SoundArt, but that box appears to 
be close to a grand, also not cheap.  With 4 DSPs and an OS that runs 
things in parallel (and you can add up to 28 DSPs total) you gte a 
heck of a lot of processing power.  I can do this: input cool MOTM 
sound, apply Frequeny shifter, modifiy the frequency with my voice in 
real time!

It's a gas...

Mike


--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, Scott Juskiw <scott@t...> wrote:
> At 3:58 PM +0000 2003/09/30, Mike Marsh wrote:
> >The learning is pretty huge, but that's more than half the fun! 
> >There are many levels to the beast and you can make new, creative
> >stuff at any of them.  From tweaking the existing 1,000 sounds to
> >programming your own primitives in DSP assembly and all points in
> >between.
> 
> I'm wondering how the Kyma compares to something like the Soundart 
> Chameleon in terms of developing custom applications with DSP. I 
was 
> thinking about getting a Chameleon, but if the Kyma can do all that 
> and more, hmmmmm......