MOTM

Please excuse the somewhat off topic post.
I just got list-member Eric Frampton's CD Agent Cooper.
It's some of the best prog-rock I've heard in some time.
My 15 year old son says it reminds him of Echolyn.
I would certainly recommend it.

Free cherry pie with every order?
Also: I love to listen to the "Twin Peaks" soundtrack while soldering :)

Any MOTM content on the CD, Eric?

Paul S.

> Please excuse the somewhat off topic post.
> I just got list-member Eric Frampton's CD Agent Cooper.

Paul H. - thanks for the kind words!

Paul S. then wrote:

> Free cherry pie with every order?

nyak, nyak.

> Also: I love to listen to the "Twin Peaks" soundtrack while soldering
> :)

Funny, even though we named the band after a character from it, I've
-never- seen a single episode of that show.

> Any MOTM content on the CD, Eric?

The album was finished in '99, before I started down the MOTM road. The
new CD, whenever we get it done (maybe this summer?), will certainly
have some bits of MOTM in there.

For other curious folks: www.agentcooper.com

e

ok, this is getting annoying. I've visited this once in AH, but no luck
sorting it out.

the problem is, when i use my motm to make bass notes ( 330osc->110amp), the
is a loud 'pop' or 'click' in front of most notes. it doesn't happen with
every note, just most, and it seems either random, or the popping kindof
drifts around my loop if that makes any sense. It doesn't seem to happen if
i increse the pitch... just happens on bass notes.

'increase the attack' they say.... well, i have to increase the attack all
the way to 3 to get rid of the clicking... can't make good punchy bass with
an attack of 3, that's for sure

'it's your mixer/sequncer/etc' they say... nope.

'use the sync in on the osc with the trigger for the env' they say....
doesn't work

'use a slew generator/some other extra combination of extra modules' they
say... come ON, i shouldn't have to spend another $500 just so i don't get a
'pop' at the beginning of all my bass notes. that's just insane

'adjust the trimmer in the 110 for cv leak' they say... nope, doesn't help

I'm kindof convnced that it's the instant jump from 0v to wherever the
waveform being output by the 300 just so happens to be wehn the env starts.
that would explain why bass notes are worse that higher notes (because the
waveform is longer therefore a voltage jump more often makes a steeper
'angle')

anyways, can MOTM not make bass notes...??? what's the deal? Should I just
not bother trying anymore?

/paul
(who all of a sudden likes his minimoog alot more since it doesn't click'

I haven't seen a reply to this yet. What I would do in your position is to try and locate the problem a bit more specifically
1) Does it happen with all waveforms from the MOTM 300?
2) At exactly what pitch range does it happen?
3) Is the cutoff point "hard" (it disappears within a few hertz)?
4) If you run the 300 through a VCF first, does that help the problem (or does it change the timbre too much to be useful)?
5) How about trying another sound source through the MOTM 110 in the same range where the problem happens (it sounds more like it's happening with the 110 than with the 300)? A 310? The Minimoog?
6) How about trying it with a different VCA? A MOTM 190? The Minimoog?
7) Can you try different (non-MOTM) EGs?

You might also want to see it on a scope -- I think there is a cap in there and maybe you installed it backwards?

Good luck!
John B.

In a message dated 6/29/2003 10:17:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time, pwagorn@... writes:

I'm kindof convnced that it's the instant jump from 0v to wherever the
waveform being output by the 300 just so happens to be wehn the env starts.
that would explain why bass notes are worse that higher notes (because the
waveform is longer therefore a voltage jump more often makes a steeper
'angle')

anyways, can MOTM not make bass notes...??? what's the deal? Should I just
not bother trying anymore?

/paul
(who all of a sudden likes his minimoog alot more since it doesn't click'

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Schreiber [mailto:synth1@...]
Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2003 3:18 PM
To: motm@yahoogroups.com; Paul Wagorn
Subject: Re: [motm] my clicking & popping bass notes

Try setting the GAIN on the '110 *ever so slightly* past the '0' point. Meaning, the VCA is *ever
so slightly* already on.

I know that you are convinced that "there is something wrong" with the MOTM system, but there's
not.

Maybe someone can send me some punchy, non-clicky bass MP3s to share?

Paul S.



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Try setting the GAIN on the '110 *ever so slightly* past the '0' point. Meaning, the VCA is *ever
so slightly* already on.

I know that you are convinced that "there is something wrong" with the MOTM system, but there's
not.

Maybe someone can send me some punchy, non-clicky bass MP3s to share?

Paul S.

thanks a lot for the reply - great questions!

1) Does it happen with all waveforms from the MOTM 300?

yes

2) At exactly what pitch range does it happen?

it sort of dissapears at about 6 on the 300.. BUT, i'm not sure if it really
dissapears, or is harder to hear because it blends more with the tone

3) Is the cutoff point "hard" (it disappears within a few hertz)?

no, gradual

4) If you run the 300 through a VCF first, does that help the problem (or
does it change the timbre too much to be useful)?

it is being put through a vcf right now, helps a bit, but like you said, i i
make the click go away, so does the rest of the sound!

5) How about trying another sound source through the MOTM 110 in the same
range where the problem happens (it sounds more like it's happening with the
110 than with the 300)? A 310? The Minimoog?

it clicks

6) How about trying it with a different VCA? A MOTM 190? The Minimoog?

no problems

7) Can you try different (non-MOTM) EGs?

unfortunately, no


You might also want to see it on a scope -- I think there is a cap in there
and maybe you installed it backwards?
yes, I wish i had a scope!

so, it's the vca.....

In a message dated 6/29/2003 3:23:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time, pwagorn@... writes:

so, it's the vca.....

That would be my guess. I seem to recall there may have been some resistor tweaking with the 110 for the first few months after they shipped (wasn't the 110 one of the first three modules to ship?). I'm pretty sure I have some resistors in parallel (soldered to the top of the other resistors) to accomplish some of this tweaking. I don't think I made all the changes that were mentioned since it was working very well and I was tired of working on it.

If yours is an early one, maybe you need to review to see if there are any updates which you missed. I'm pretty sure that mine doesn't line up with the 0 tick mark when the VCA goes to zero (I can't remember which way it's offset).

But I also had a problem with my 110. Since the CV MOD pot has wires flown to it but has no solder lugs, kit builders had to bend the pins around the wires and add heat shrink around them for protection. I didn't have a heat shrink gun at the time and tried to melt the heat shrink by getting the tip of the soldering iron VERY close to the heat shrink. I ended up cooking the pot but not realizing it for a while since it worked well in most positions, but in some positions it had very strange symptoms.

You might want to look into that too.
John B.

"Paul Wagorn" <pwagorn@...> wrote:
<snip>

> 6) How about trying it with a different VCA? A MOTM 190? The Minimoog?
>
> no problems

<snip>

Hi Paul,

Ok, if you tried a different VCA and had "no problems", by this you mean the
click/pop went away, right? If so, it might be that the original 110 VCA is
having some CV bleed-through and needs adjustment as described in the
manual.

The 110 may be clipping for some reason. If you put two different freq
[preferably] sine waves into the RM section of the 110 "in question", does
it experience any popping sounds?

Another thought, do you have a mixer? Try attenuating the signals going
into the VCA. Popping go away?

Did you try Paul Schreiber's suggestion? Did it have any effect?

I'm curious, exactly what VCA did you use in place of the one 110 creating
the popping? A different 110? a 190? an external VCA?

Grasping a bit, but how many modules are in your system, and what power
supply are you using?

George

>Ok, if you tried a different VCA and had "no problems", by this you mean

the

>click/pop went away, right? If so, it might be that the original 110 VCA

is

>having some CV bleed-through and needs adjustment as described in the
>manual.

I tried that, it doesn't seems to help, unfortunately. (although i can make
it worse by adjusting this! :)

>The 110 may be clipping for some reason. If you put two different freq
>[preferably] sine waves into the RM section of the 110 "in question", does
>it experience any popping sounds?

i'll try that out

>Another thought, do you have a mixer? Try attenuating the signals going
>into the VCA. Popping go away?

hmm, can't do that - i don't have something that will work with cv's :(

>Did you try Paul Schreiber's suggestion? Did it have any effect?

no

>I'm curious, exactly what VCA did you use in place of the one 110 creating
>the popping? A different 110? a 190? an external VCA?

minimoog

>Grasping a bit, but how many modules are in your system, and what power
>supply are you using?

well, my PS is full (it's a motm), but it should be ok....
paul

In a message dated 6/29/2003 5:58:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time, pwagorn@... writes:

where do I check for updates? mine is indeed an early one (i think!). I'll check that pot too....

The best thing to do would be check the date on the documentation and let us know. Do you have the manuals? I know there have been a few used systems for sale over the past few years. If you bought this one used I hope you got the manual.

I can't remember the specifics of my pot problem. I'm kinda thinking that it may have been similar to what you mention (I think it preceded the MOTM list so any correspondence I had with Paul or anyone wouldn't be in the archives). After a while I was quite sure it was the pot, I disconnected it and tried another (carbon pot I had laying around) of the same value and it worked fine. I wouldn't suggest trying to disconnect the pot until you are very sure that is the problem -- big hassle.

One additional test (which won't tell you much) would be to try and attenuate your EG with a different pot and leave your CV MOD pot all the way up -- or better yet, try turning it to see if it "comes and goes" in different positions. You can run your EG through any DC coupled module which has an attenuator (a mixer, possibly some of the filters, etc.)

Good luck!
John B.

On Monday 30 June 2003 00:11, Paul Wagorn wrote:

> anyways, my post wasn't meant to be a complaint, more
> "please someone help me make my motm make usable bass
> sounds"

Did you eliminate all other components in the chain, like
cables, your mixer, your amp, your speakers?

I guess you did, but anyway.

- Robert

Hi Paul!

I know everyone has sent you good input, but here's another take on
this.

With very fast attack settings on low frequencies, I was hearing what
I thought was control voltage bleed through. I played with my
settings for quite a while, only to realize that the problem was my
VCA-based compressor! Softening the attack of the compressor was the
solution (while saving for a better one!). What are you plugged into?

Chub

-----Original Message-----
From: osthelder [mailto:osthelder@...]
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 10:44 AM
To: motm@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [motm] Re: my clicking & popping bass notes

Hi Paul!

I know everyone has sent you good input, but here's another take on
this.

With very fast attack settings on low frequencies, I was hearing what
I thought was control voltage bleed through. I played with my
settings for quite a while, only to realize that the problem was my
VCA-based compressor! Softening the attack of the compressor was the
solution (while saving for a better one!). What are you plugged into?

Chub



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