MOTM

This in concerning problem #1, the 800s shooting up over 6 volts based on 
knob settings and playing style.

I've tried everything to get those MOTM-800s to behave with no luck.  Those 
included using the addition of a trigger from the Kenton (Paul's 
recommendation), trying a Doepfer Midi-CV module, trying a straight CV and 
Gate output from a Jupiter-8.  No change in behavior at all.

My Doepfer envelopes work just as expected with no increasing voltages 
building up no matter how I set them, although they needed a trigger fed into 
their retrig input to get multi-triggering to work from the Kenton for some 
reason.  The MOTM doesn't need that.

And I've noticed what Craig Critchley mentioned.  If I bring the Attack up 
past 2, then these voltage problems mysteriously go away, but so does the 
percussive Attack.

The question is whether Paul / somebody can look into a mod that can be done 
to correct this problem?  I'm trying to synthesize percussive Carlos type 
sounds and need to play Bach with all kinds of fast ornamentation which seems 
to be the worst case senario for the MOTM envelopes.  And I'm sure others who 
actually play the keyboard must be running into the problem too.  It's 
plagued me from day one.  Using Doepfer envelopes is only a temporary and 
messy fix.

-Elhardt

Great, I was just about to start building two of these. How long 
have they been out, anyway? I often like to use an EG to 
modulate one VCO of two VCO patch (ala Lyle Mays) and it's 
starting to sound like the 800 would be unusable for this. BTW, 
I've heard the D brand EG has a droopy sustain, making it also 
difficult for this application. Paul, can we have an FCO? <- (that's 
engineer talk I learnt when I used worked on 1 Gigabyte hard 
drives that were the size of a washing machine) :-)

Barry

--- In motm@y..., elhardt@a... wrote:
> This in concerning problem #1, the 800s shooting up over 6 
volts based on 
> knob settings and playing style.
> 
> I've tried everything to get those MOTM-800s to behave with no 
luck.  Those 
> included using the addition of a trigger from the Kenton (Paul's 
> recommendation), trying a Doepfer Midi-CV module, trying a 
straight CV and 
> Gate output from a Jupiter-8.  No change in behavior at all.
> 
> My Doepfer envelopes work just as expected with no 
increasing voltages 
> building up no matter how I set them, although they needed a 
trigger fed into 
> their retrig input to get multi-triggering to work from the Kenton 
for some 
> reason.  The MOTM doesn't need that.
> 
> And I've noticed what Craig Critchley mentioned.  If I bring the 
Attack up 
> past 2, then these voltage problems mysteriously go away, but 
so does the 
> percussive Attack.
> 
> The question is whether Paul / somebody can look into a mod 
that can be done 
> to correct this problem?  I'm trying to synthesize percussive 
Carlos type 
> sounds and need to play Bach with all kinds of fast 
ornamentation which seems 
> to be the worst case senario for the MOTM envelopes.  And I'm 
sure others who 
> actually play the keyboard must be running into the problem 
too.  It's 
> plagued me from day one.  Using Doepfer envelopes is only a 
temporary and 

> messy fix.
> 
> -Elhardt

--- In motm@y..., elhardt@a... wrote:
>
> [...] I'm trying to synthesize percussive Carlos type sounds and
> need to play Bach with all kinds of fast ornamentation which seems
> to be the worst case senario for the MOTM envelopes.

Peanut gallery comment: I remember somewhere Carlos stated that to 
achieve those fast ornamented lines on the Moog, the part was played 
at half tempo, an octave down, and with the tape recording at half 
speed.  (As such, when the tape was played at normal speed the desired 
tempo and pitch resulted.)  I don't recall the exact reasons - but the 
Moog modular did have difficulty with the fast playing.  I'm trying to 
remember where I read this - it might have been in the booklet that 
comes with the Switched on Boxed Set.

1. Fatally flawed?  That's a slight overreaction as it indicates that the
product isn't usable.  Somehow my two 800's seem to operate just fine.

2. Elhardt, if you have such a precise need, have you not investigated your
other options?    Blacet? Wiard? Modcan?  Moog?  Serge?  Someone MUST have an
EG that will work for you.

3. I understand Paul's pride and desire for perfection with his modules -
that's a huge reason why I'm an MOTM customer.  However, Paul, you can get a
little paranoid at times.  This small defect won't ruin your sales, just as
that idiot on the Gas Station hasn't convinced anyone that MOTM is bland and
for idiots, either.

4. Please please please don't delay the 500 series!!  Especially for such a
small thing.  As John wisely pointed out, this is the first real "issue" in
four years - that's an excellent track record and there's no reason to derail
such a **monumental** addition to the MOTM product line.  I've put off all
synth purchases this year (well, except a Virus c) to make sure that I have at
least one of each 500 series module.

Graham

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When Paul wrote:

"However, I don't forsee a reason to redesign. It *is* a cheap, 
simple circuit."

IMHO, this comment seemed very un-MOTM. I really started to 
get to get worried and hoped the remedies he suggested would 
work, when they didn't seem to, I guess I went from worry to 
panic. Hence the request for an FCO (field change order). I'm 
really glad this is being looked into.

Can someone recap the problems, preferably in terms of what 
ranges and combinations of settings work as one would expect? 
Also, will it hold a steady sustain voltage that doesn't change as 
non-sustain parameters are adjusted. If so, is max sustain 5V, 
like it's supposed to be for the "good" settings?

In the meantime, I guess I'll set the 800s aside and work on the 
other kits.

Thanks, Barry


--- In motm@y..., "coyoteous" <satori@t...> wrote:
> Great, I was just about to start building two of these. How long 
> have they been out, anyway? I often like to use an EG to 
> modulate one VCO of two VCO patch (ala Lyle Mays) and it's 
> starting to sound like the 800 would be unusable for this. BTW, 
> I've heard the D brand EG has a droopy sustain, making it also 
> difficult for this application. Paul, can we have an FCO? <- 
(that's 

> engineer talk I learnt when I used to work on 1 Gigabyte hard 
> drives that were the size of a washing machine) :-)
> 
> Barry