MOTM

OK, so we know some basics of what DoMOAS will contain (see Paul quoted
below).

What I'd like to talk about is the possibility of optimizing the controls to
make DoMOAS a kick ass performance sequencer as well. I'll throw out a
couple of ideas, but I am an old fart and don't know what's currently
currently available in other systems like X0X, 777, Cyclodon, etc. etc.
Someone please clue me in as to cool things that are already possible with
these and other systems.

For starters, it seems like you'd want to be able to modify Chains in real
time, or even create one on the fly while the sequencer is playing. You
would want to have access to all the HOLD, LOOP, FORK etc. commands, perhaps
from dedicated buttons.

Also, it seems like you would want multiple outputs, like maybe 4. Then you
could assign patterns and chains to more than 1 output, and even have
control over starting and stopping, looping, etc. independently on each
output. How about playing one chain at double or half speed?

If this thing was interactive enough, I'd probably mount it in a tabletop
box instead of my main synth cab.

Dave

> From: "Paul Schreiber" <synth1@...>
>
> There are 99 memorys (#1-99). The length is set to say 16. You twiddle the
> 16 pots
> to the correct voltages, press <STORE>. (You 'alpha' in the location with
> the data entry knob).
>
> A <CHAIN> is another memory, that stores sequences of memory locations. A
> <CHAIN> might be:
>
> 1-2-45-3-74-1-70.
>
> In other words, it plays the notes in #1, followed by #2, followed by #45,
> etc.
>
> Of course, we could place a <HOLD> in the <CHAIN> until, say, a
> <GATE IN> is
> sensed.
> or a <HOLD/LOOP> that repeats the <CHAIN> over and over until <GATE IN> is
> active,  then it proceeds.
>
> OR, a more bizarre <FORK>, which means if <GATE IN> is active *at that
> time*, go on, else
> branch to another <CHAIN>.  Or a <HOLD CC>, which releases the <HOLD> if a
> MIDI CC message is active........
>
> The joys of the lowly microprocessor. Take *that*, lowy Moog 960.

Oh yeah, it goes without saying you'd want to be able to apply patterns to
rhythm, also independently of output!

Dave Bradley
Principal Software Engineer
Engineering Animation, Inc.
daveb@...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Bradley [mailto:daveb@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 2:02 PM
> To: motm@onelist.com
> Subject: [motm] DoMOAS live performance features
>
>
> From: "Dave Bradley" <daveb@...>
>
> OK, so we know some basics of what DoMOAS will contain (see Paul quoted
> below).
>

> OK, so we know some basics of what DoMOAS will contain (see Paul quoted
> below).
>
> What I'd like to talk about is the possibility of optimizing the
> controls to
> make DoMOAS a kick ass performance sequencer as well.

Nobody has any comments about this???!!! 100 emails about a 1 unit PREAMP
for cryin' out loud, but none about the sequencer design???!!!

Paul may or may not ever get around to building MOAS, so DoMOAS could be our
only shot. Speak up, all ye windbags!

Moe

The previous description sounded like the sequencer was more than capable to 
me. What more needs to be discussed? I doubt if I could find anything better 
out there.

>From: "Dave Bradley" <daveb@...>
>Reply-To: motm@onelist.com
>To: <motm@onelist.com>
>Subject: RE: [motm] DoMOAS live performance features
>Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:13:38 -0500
>
>From: "Dave Bradley" <daveb@...>
>
> > OK, so we know some basics of what DoMOAS will contain (see Paul quoted
> > below).
> >
> > What I'd like to talk about is the possibility of optimizing the
> > controls to
> > make DoMOAS a kick ass performance sequencer as well.
>
>Nobody has any comments about this???!!! 100 emails about a 1 unit PREAMP
>for cryin' out loud, but none about the sequencer design???!!!
>
>Paul may or may not ever get around to building MOAS, so DoMOAS could be 
>our
>only shot. Speak up, all ye windbags!
>
>Moe
>
>
>
>--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
>ONElist:  your connection to online communities.
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------

You flatter me, kind sir<g>. But I am paranoid that I don't know about some
cool features on all the other performance sequencers available, because I
haven't seen any of them.

For instance, how about the ability to add accents on some of the X0X stuff?
Useful? Lame? How does it work? Can you modify it in real time? Enlighten me
somebody!

Since this is MOTM, it should kick butt on everything else out there, so
that Paul could offer it in a standalone tabletop enclosure to modular
challenged musicians in addition to us.

Moe

> -----Original Message-----
> From: james holloway [mailto:jimh54@...]
> Sent: Thursday, September 09, 1999 1:27 PM
> To: motm@onelist.com
> Subject: RE: [motm] DoMOAS live performance features
>
>
> From: "james holloway" <jimh54@...>
>
> The previous description sounded like the sequencer was more than
> capable to
> me. What more needs to be discussed? I doubt if I could find
> anything better
> out there.
>

-----Nobody has any comments about this???!!! 100 emails
about a 1 unit PREAMP for cryin' out loud, but none about the sequencer
design???!!! 
		Paul may or may not ever get around to building MOAS, so
DoMOAS could be our only shot. Speak up, all ye windbags!-----


*I'll* speak up. What was the question?

Seriously, where can a newbie got to get some background info on this "MOAS"
or which you speak? I've only been able to backtrack bits & pieces of
conversations and I can't quite get a complete picture of it. I have some
idea about this sequencer based on a phone call I had with Paul last week,
but... I don't even know what 'MOAS' stands for...!

MOAS = "Mother of All Sequencers"

Paul's original idea was to have a modular sequencer system that you could
change personalities on.

Current discussion is about DoMOAS, "Daughter of MOAS", still kickass but
somewhat less ambitious than the original concept.

Dave Bradley
Principal Software Engineer
Engineering Animation, Inc.
daveb@...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tkacs, Ken [mailto:Ken.Tkacs@...]
> Sent: Thursday, September 09, 1999 2:03 PM
> To: 'motm@onelist.com'
> Subject: RE: [motm] DoMOAS live performance features
>
>
> From: "Tkacs, Ken" <Ken.Tkacs@...>
>
>
>
> 		-----Nobody has any comments about this???!!! 100 emails
> about a 1 unit PREAMP for cryin' out loud, but none about the sequencer
> design???!!!
> 		Paul may or may not ever get around to building MOAS, so
> DoMOAS could be our only shot. Speak up, all ye windbags!-----
>
>
> *I'll* speak up. What was the question?
>
> Seriously, where can a newbie got to get some background info on
> this "MOAS"
> or which you speak? I've only been able to backtrack bits & pieces of
> conversations and I can't quite get a complete picture of it. I have some
> idea about this sequencer based on a phone call I had with Paul last week,
> but... I don't even know what 'MOAS' stands for...!
>
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> ONElist now has T-SHIRTS!
> For details and to order, go to:
> <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/tshirt1 ">Click Here</a>
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> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

> O.k., o.k. already!
> How's that, Dave? :)

Now that wasn't so bad, was it<g>?

> - Immediate change of number of steps -
> I did this on my (former) Roland 104 (for the sys 100) sequencer via a
> stepped knob. I'd like to be able to change it on the fly, perhaps using a
> switch under each knob (push the appropriate switch to set that
> knob as the
> last step) or even the ability to program one of several, generic
> "function"
> buttons with several lengths that would be useful to me in a performance
> (e.g. for straight stuff I might select 4, 8 and 16).

Good one! May not be panel space enough for dedicated button per stage, but
I'm sure there's a solution that's fast and easy to use.

>
> - Conversion to a straight trigger sequencer -
> Each knob corresponds to a step. If the knob is pre-12 o'clock,
> it's off. If
> it's post-12 o'clock, trigger on. This would let the sequencer act as a
> trigger sequencer for percussive sounds.
>
> - Preset- and user-defined voltage quantization -
> Ability to quantize voltages to western scale as well as user-defined
> increments. If the user input only certain intervals, one could randomly
> spin wheels to come up with variations on a set-interval theme.
>

I think that the quantizer could also accomplish your trigger sequencer just
by quantizing to only 2 levels - zero and max voltage. Not sure what you
meant by "randomly spin wheels to come up with variations on a set-interval
theme".

> - Switchable, multiple clock outputs -
> Let's have sync24 (Roland), sync48 (Korg) and various ppq amounts, two
> dinsync outputs (switchable as mentioned), one dinsync input (switchable),
> two 1/4" clock outputs (switchable), one 1/4" input. I want to
> interface my whole studio with this bad boy!
>

Add Midi out to the list, then make it an optional add on so that you only
pay for it if you need it.

> - Room to turn knobs -
> I know we've gone over panel design already, but if those knobs are too
> close together, my clumsy fingers won't be able to grab 'em. The
> Roland 104
> knobs are *almost* too close, but not quite.
>
> - At least 16 knobs -
> I can't recall the latest word on this, but I don't want any less
> than this
> for live use.

Last I heard was 7 spaces, 16 knobs - which would be 2 rows of 8, in
slightly less than current MOTM spacing. Could go to 3/4" knobs to maintain
finger room. This still doesn't leave tons of room for push buttons and leds
per stage, input set and output gate jacks per stage, VFD display, alpha
dial, extra programmable buttons, clock controls and jacks, etc!

My guess is that it will end up taking a full 10 spaces.

> - Rest switches -
> Switches (buttons) above or below each knob that designate a
> rest. Put LEDs
> in them to show that a step is active. Make these double as the
> aforementioned pattern-length buttons, and you can put *two* LEDs in
> each--one two show "on" and one to show "last step."
>

This is a great idea. Seems trickier to implement in CV/Gate land than in
MIDI land. If you just hook a seq. output to a VCO's pitch, then a rest is
not possible. You'd need something that provides a gate or trigger for every
stage that is NOT a rest, and gate the VCO with a VCA.

OK folks, David stepped up to the plate, now it's your turn!

Moe

O.k., o.k. already!

The problem is that I haven't had the pleasure of using such a potentially
full-featured analog hardware sequencer before, so I'm at a bit of a loss in
terms of comments, suggestions, etc.

Starting from scratch, here are some features I would like to see:

Before anyone bitches, let me point out that this is pie-in-the-sky and NOT
based on what I know so far about DOMOAS. So there's no need to tell me "I
think that was already going to be implemented" or "That's not possible." K?
:)

- Immediate change of number of steps -
I did this on my (former) Roland 104 (for the sys 100) sequencer via a
stepped knob. I'd like to be able to change it on the fly, perhaps using a
switch under each knob (push the appropriate switch to set that knob as the
last step) or even the ability to program one of several, generic "function"
buttons with several lengths that would be useful to me in a performance
(e.g. for straight stuff I might select 4, 8 and 16).

- Conversion to a straight trigger sequencer -
Each knob corresponds to a step. If the knob is pre-12 o'clock, it's off. If
it's post-12 o'clock, trigger on. This would let the sequencer act as a
trigger sequencer for percussive sounds.

- Preset- and user-defined voltage quantization -
Ability to quantize voltages to western scale as well as user-defined
increments. If the user input only certain intervals, one could randomly
spin wheels to come up with variations on a set-interval theme.

- Switchable, multiple clock outputs -
Let's have sync24 (Roland), sync48 (Korg) and various ppq amounts, two
dinsync outputs (switchable as mentioned), one dinsync input (switchable),
two 1/4" clock outputs (switchable), one 1/4" input. I want to interface my
whole studio with this bad boy!

- Room to turn knobs -
I know we've gone over panel design already, but if those knobs are too
close together, my clumsy fingers won't be able to grab 'em. The Roland 104
knobs are *almost* too close, but not quite.

- At least 16 knobs -
I can't recall the latest word on this, but I don't want any less than this
for live use.

- Rest switches -
Switches (buttons) above or below each knob that designate a rest. Put LEDs
in them to show that a step is active. Make these double as the
aforementioned pattern-length buttons, and you can put *two* LEDs in
each--one two show "on" and one to show "last step."

- Two equal rows of knobs and associated logic for order of sequence -
Two equal rows of 8 or 12 (call them A and B) that allow: A, then B; A and B
simultaneous, A, then B, then B reverse, then A reverse (for "up-down"
arpeggiation emulation without programming the "down"). E.g. row A has
notes, row B trigger + gate lengths; row A notes, row B voltages for cutoff
freq of a filter...

If this is going to be a device that requires a lot of user programming via
a couple buttons and a display, let's have several to many user-definable
button/switches. Users can then program said switches with their most used
functions.

I'm a big fan of having everything available on the panel with a dedicated
switch or knob. It sounds weird I'm sure, but I'm not crazy about the
potential for menus to go through--I'm building a modular to avoid that BS.
Even if the thing ended up being a full rack wide (and of course 5U tall),
just to fit the knobs, with the processor hidden away never to be seen by
assembler-phobics like me, I'd be a lot more happy than I would be with a
limited set of multi-function knobs in a small space. And I'd pay a lot of
money for it--well over $1000. It would probably become one of my most-used
studio tools, especially if it had all the clock options I outlined above.

How's that, Dave? :)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Bradley [mailto:daveb@...]
> Sent: Thursday, September 09, 1999 12:14 PM
> To: motm@onelist.com
> Subject: RE: [motm] DoMOAS live performance features
>
>
> From: "Dave Bradley" <daveb@...>
>
> > OK, so we know some basics of what DoMOAS will contain (see Paul quoted
> > below).
> >
> > What I'd like to talk about is the possibility of optimizing the
> > controls to
> > make DoMOAS a kick ass performance sequencer as well.
>
> Nobody has any comments about this???!!! 100 emails about a 1 unit PREAMP
> for cryin' out loud, but none about the sequencer design???!!!
>
> Paul may or may not ever get around to building MOAS, so DoMOAS
> could be our
> only shot. Speak up, all ye windbags!
>
> Moe
>
>
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> ONElist:  your connection to online communities.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

A couple more features for the wish list:

Glide knob, turned on and off from an input jack.
Octave +/- transpose

Dave Bradley
Principal Software Engineer
Engineering Animation, Inc.
daveb@...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Bradley [mailto:daveb@...]
> Sent: Thursday, September 09, 1999 2:31 PM
> To: motm@onelist.com
> Subject: RE: [motm] DoMOAS live performance features
>
>
> From: "Dave Bradley" <daveb@...>
>
> > O.k., o.k. already!
> > How's that, Dave? :)
>
> Now that wasn't so bad, was it<g>?
>
> > - Immediate change of number of steps -
> > I did this on my (former) Roland 104 (for the sys 100) sequencer via a
> > stepped knob. I'd like to be able to change it on the fly,
> perhaps using a
> > switch under each knob (push the appropriate switch to set that
> > knob as the
> > last step) or even the ability to program one of several, generic
> > "function"
> > buttons with several lengths that would be useful to me in a performance
> > (e.g. for straight stuff I might select 4, 8 and 16).
>
> Good one! May not be panel space enough for dedicated button per
> stage, but
> I'm sure there's a solution that's fast and easy to use.
>
> >
> > - Conversion to a straight trigger sequencer -
> > Each knob corresponds to a step. If the knob is pre-12 o'clock,
> > it's off. If
> > it's post-12 o'clock, trigger on. This would let the sequencer act as a
> > trigger sequencer for percussive sounds.
> >
> > - Preset- and user-defined voltage quantization -
> > Ability to quantize voltages to western scale as well as user-defined
> > increments. If the user input only certain intervals, one could randomly
> > spin wheels to come up with variations on a set-interval theme.
> >
>
> I think that the quantizer could also accomplish your trigger
> sequencer just
> by quantizing to only 2 levels - zero and max voltage. Not sure what you
> meant by "randomly spin wheels to come up with variations on a
> set-interval
> theme".
>
> > - Switchable, multiple clock outputs -
> > Let's have sync24 (Roland), sync48 (Korg) and various ppq amounts, two
> > dinsync outputs (switchable as mentioned), one dinsync input
> (switchable),
> > two 1/4" clock outputs (switchable), one 1/4" input. I want to
> > interface my whole studio with this bad boy!
> >
>
> Add Midi out to the list, then make it an optional add on so that you only
> pay for it if you need it.
>
> > - Room to turn knobs -
> > I know we've gone over panel design already, but if those knobs are too
> > close together, my clumsy fingers won't be able to grab 'em. The
> > Roland 104
> > knobs are *almost* too close, but not quite.
> >
> > - At least 16 knobs -
> > I can't recall the latest word on this, but I don't want any less
> > than this
> > for live use.
>
> Last I heard was 7 spaces, 16 knobs - which would be 2 rows of 8, in
> slightly less than current MOTM spacing. Could go to 3/4" knobs
> to maintain
> finger room. This still doesn't leave tons of room for push
> buttons and leds
> per stage, input set and output gate jacks per stage, VFD display, alpha
> dial, extra programmable buttons, clock controls and jacks, etc!
>
> My guess is that it will end up taking a full 10 spaces.
>
> > - Rest switches -
> > Switches (buttons) above or below each knob that designate a
> > rest. Put LEDs
> > in them to show that a step is active. Make these double as the
> > aforementioned pattern-length buttons, and you can put *two* LEDs in
> > each--one two show "on" and one to show "last step."
> >
>
> This is a great idea. Seems trickier to implement in CV/Gate land than in
> MIDI land. If you just hook a seq. output to a VCO's pitch, then a rest is
> not possible. You'd need something that provides a gate or
> trigger for every
> stage that is NOT a rest, and gate the VCO with a VCA.
>
> OK folks, David stepped up to the plate, now it's your turn!
>
> Moe
>
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> How would you like to have a voice in the marketplace and be
> rewarded for it? SurveySpot members earn cash and prizes for
> taking part in market research studies!
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>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

Please!! Not a stand alone. Retrofit it in a box if you must but let me rack 
mount mine.

>From: "Dave Bradley" <daveb@...>
>Reply-To: motm@onelist.com
>To: <motm@onelist.com>
>Subject: RE: [motm] DoMOAS live performance features
>Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:36:42 -0500
>
>From: "Dave Bradley" <daveb@...>
>
>You flatter me, kind sir<g>. But I am paranoid that I don't know about some
>cool features on all the other performance sequencers available, because I
>haven't seen any of them.
>
>For instance, how about the ability to add accents on some of the X0X 
>stuff?
>Useful? Lame? How does it work? Can you modify it in real time? Enlighten 
>me
>somebody!
>
>Since this is MOTM, it should kick butt on everything else out there, so
>that Paul could offer it in a standalone tabletop enclosure to modular
>challenged musicians in addition to us.
>
>Moe
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: james holloway [mailto:jimh54@...]
> > Sent: Thursday, September 09, 1999 1:27 PM
> > To: motm@onelist.com
> > Subject: RE: [motm] DoMOAS live performance features
> >
> >
> > From: "james holloway" <jimh54@...>
> >
> > The previous description sounded like the sequencer was more than
> > capable to
> > me. What more needs to be discussed? I doubt if I could find
> > anything better
> > out there.
> >
>
>
>--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
>ONElist:  your connection to online communities.
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------

Absolutely! That's what I meant. First and foremost, it's a MOTM module. I
was only trying to point out a potentially lucrative secondary market.

Thinking about a tabletop box might cause the form factor to be a little
different behind the panel - for instance, mounting the circuit board
parallel to the panel for a shallower depth, rather than at right angles as
is normal with narrow panels.

Dave Bradley
Principal Software Engineer
Engineering Animation, Inc.
daveb@...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: james holloway [mailto:jimh54@...]
> Sent: Thursday, September 09, 1999 4:10 PM
> To: motm@onelist.com
> Subject: RE: [motm] DoMOAS live performance features
>
>
> From: "james holloway" <jimh54@...>
>
> Please!! Not a stand alone. Retrofit it in a box if you must but
> let me rack
> mount mine.
>

> > > - Rest switches -
> > > Switches (buttons) above or below each knob that designate a
> > > rest. Put LEDs
> > > in them to show that a step is active. Make these double as the
> > > aforementioned pattern-length buttons, and you can put *two* LEDs in
> > > each--one two show "on" and one to show "last step."
> > >
> >
> > This is a great idea. Seems trickier to implement in CV/Gate land than
in
> > MIDI land. If you just hook a seq. output to a VCO's pitch, then a rest
is
> > not possible. You'd need something that provides a gate or
> > trigger for every
> > stage that is NOT a rest, and gate the VCO with a VCA.

> But couldn't you just have it available when that particular row of knobs
is
> set as "gate" knobs? I.e., when the switch is in, that gate stays
closed...

Seems like if you are using a whole row of pots up for gates, as in your
trigger sequencer scenario, then a rest is just a pot turned all the way
down, in that when that row is selected by the clock, its output will be
zero, in other words no gate. You don't need any additional buttons or leds.

I was talking about a way to avoid burning a whole row for gates - keep one
extra piece of information per stage and route that to a clock output or
something.

I've run my mouth enough for the day, sayonara until tomorrow!

Dave Bradley
Principal Software Engineer
Engineering Animation, Inc.
daveb@...

On Thu, 9 Sep 1999, Dave Bradley wrote:
> From: "Dave Bradley" <daveb@...>
> Absolutely! That's what I meant. First and foremost, it's a MOTM module. I
> was only trying to point out a potentially lucrative secondary market.

I think both modes of mounting the PCB could, with a little forethought,
work fine. Many successful sequencers are rackmounted (MAQ-16, etc). 

> Thinking about a tabletop box might cause the form factor to be a little
> different behind the panel - for instance, mounting the circuit board
> parallel to the panel for a shallower depth, rather than at right angles as
> is normal with narrow panels.

I would think Paul would do this anyways... it's not very practical to
have to use flying wires to hook up individual pots when there are so many
of them. 

Andrew

-| Andrew Schrock | aschrock@... |-

I've only been skimming the messages here, so I apologize for any cross-over.

------------------

Did anyone mention variable GATE_ON time per stage?

ie, the stage will take up the same amount of wall-clock time, but the GATE 
will only stay high for something less than that. This is great for 
creating rhythms within rhythms by using filter sweeps, or making a PWM 
sweep that completes before the stage is done.

The "easy" way to implement something like this might be to just offer 
"Pulse Trigger" or "Gate" per stage. "Gate" stays on for the length of the 
stage, while "Pulse Trigger" just "blips" the GATE output for a globally 
set amount of time (probably defined as a percentage of the current clock 
rate).

------------------

Variable stage timing. This is the ability to have a stage set it's own 
length. This allows for a sequence to be arhythmic. The MAQ 16/3 is like 
this, as well as the arpeggiator and sequencer in the Q. It's a lot more 
fun than you may think. :)

------------------

Individual GATE outs for each stage. This takes up panel space, but is 
great for using the sequencer as an event sequencer while still being a 
note sequencer. I used to play games with a Moog 960/961 all the time with 
this.

------------------

I saw octave transpose go by recently... If the original suggestion wasn't 
made with the thought of this being "per stage" versus global, then lemme 
suggest that. Having per-stage octave transpose is very nice. The EML 400 
is like this.

------------------

DoMOAS is digital, right?

I saw run modes like forward, reverse, and random go by, but...

Pendulum - with an optional repeat of the last stage at the top and/or 
bottom of the sequence.

Pattern - a number of user patterns which define the steps to play back. 
This may seem useless, since you can just reload a step, but... Think of 
having control over the starting step of a pattern. ie, program a 16 stage 
sequence; then define a 13 stage pattern that starts on stage 1 and is 
limited to 13 stages. Now, as the sequence is playing, shift the starting 
point of the pattern to stage 2, then 3, then 4...



I'll keep thinking and work on navigating the OneList archives....

Mark

On Thursday, September 09, 1999 2:56 PM, Mark Pulver 
[SMTP:mpulver@...] wrote:
> Variable stage timing. This is the ability to have a stage set it's own
> length. This allows for a sequence to be arhythmic. The MAQ 16/3 is like
> this, as well as the arpeggiator and sequencer in the Q. It's a lot more
> fun than you may think. :)

Isn't "Variable stage timing" just the classic application of a 2 row x N 
step sequencer?  Row 2 CV output drives the VCO that clocks the sequencer 
and Row 1 provides the CV for use downstream.  Now *this* is the perfect 
reason for a M310 uVCO - to provide voltage controlled clocking of 
sequencers.

I don't think the sequencer should be bogged down with every feature under 
the sun lest we get MOAS again.  I *do* think it should be carefully 
crafted to interface well with other modules and that perfection can be 
found in simplicity.

John Speth
Object Engineering, Inc
mailto:johns@...

John Speth (03:18 PM 9/9/1999) wrote:

 >On Thursday, September 09, 1999 2:56 PM, Mark Pulver
 >[SMTP:mpulver@...] wrote:
 >> Variable stage timing. This is the ability to have a stage set it's own
 >> length. This allows for a sequence to be arhythmic. The MAQ 16/3 is like
 >> this, as well as the arpeggiator and sequencer in the Q. It's a lot more
 >> fun than you may think. :)
 >
 >Isn't "Variable stage timing" just the classic application of a 2 row x N
 >step sequencer?  Row 2 CV output drives the VCO that clocks the sequencer
 >and Row 1 provides the CV for use downstream.  Now *this* is the perfect
 >reason for a M310 uVCO - to provide voltage controlled clocking of
 >sequencers.

It's one of many classic applications for a 2 row x N sequencer... 
Multi-Row sequencers can also be used for setting up moving chord patterns.


 >I don't think the sequencer should be bogged down with every feature under
 >the sun lest we get MOAS again.  I *do* think it should be carefully
 >crafted to interface well with other modules and that perfection can be
 >found in simplicity.

I agree... But some of the stuff that I've seen go by is getting "out 
there" and I would guess that DoMOAS and MOAS are gonna become "one" out of 
pure frustration of trying to find a line to draw. :)


Mark

> Now that wasn't so bad, was it<g>?

Well, as long as my boss doesn't mind getting this new client proposal a
little late ;)

> Good one! May not be panel space enough for dedicated button per
> stage, but
> I'm sure there's a solution that's fast and easy to use.

But I want it! :) I know it's not the MOAS, but I really don't feel like
buying a couple of buggy Doepfer products just for the extra capabilites. If
I don't get a sexy, black panel full of knobs and buttons, I'm going to...
well, I don't know what, but you wait and see ;)

> I think that the quantizer could also accomplish your trigger
> sequencer just
> by quantizing to only 2 levels - zero and max voltage.

Duh. Yup, you're right! How about a switch to slam the sequencer into
2-level quantization mode?

> Not sure what you
> meant by "randomly spin wheels to come up with variations on a
> set-interval
> theme".

I merely mean that if you set quantization to (e.g.) C, E, G, Bflat ONLY,
that no matter where you set the knobs, you'd get those notes--nothing in
between. That's all. No biggie.

> > - Switchable, multiple clock outputs -
> > Let's have sync24 (Roland), sync48 (Korg) and various ppq amounts, two
> > dinsync outputs (switchable as mentioned), one dinsync input
> (switchable),
> > two 1/4" clock outputs (switchable), one 1/4" input. I want to
> > interface my whole studio with this bad boy!
> >
>
> Add Midi out to the list, then make it an optional add on so that you only
> pay for it if you need it.

Oh right--some people use MIDI with their MOTMs. I'm so sheltered!

> > - Room to turn knobs -
> > I know we've gone over panel design already, but if those knobs are too
> > close together, my clumsy fingers won't be able to grab 'em. The
> > Roland 104
> > knobs are *almost* too close, but not quite.
> >
> > - At least 16 knobs -
> > I can't recall the latest word on this, but I don't want any less
> > than this
> > for live use.
>
> Last I heard was 7 spaces, 16 knobs - which would be 2 rows of 8, in
> slightly less than current MOTM spacing. Could go to 3/4" knobs
> to maintain
> finger room. This still doesn't leave tons of room for push
> buttons and leds
> per stage, input set and output gate jacks per stage, VFD display, alpha
> dial, extra programmable buttons, clock controls and jacks, etc!
>
> My guess is that it will end up taking a full 10 spaces.

Oh yes, very wide. That would be delicious, and I'd pay for it. Hear that
Paul? I'll commit to big bucks! I vote for the smaller knobs--no real
necessity for larger knobs on a sequencer, as there's less "Grab the cutoff
now!" and more getting into detail.



>
> > - Rest switches -
> > Switches (buttons) above or below each knob that designate a
> > rest. Put LEDs
> > in them to show that a step is active. Make these double as the
> > aforementioned pattern-length buttons, and you can put *two* LEDs in
> > each--one two show "on" and one to show "last step."
> >
>
> This is a great idea. Seems trickier to implement in CV/Gate land than in
> MIDI land. If you just hook a seq. output to a VCO's pitch, then a rest is
> not possible. You'd need something that provides a gate or
> trigger for every
> stage that is NOT a rest, and gate the VCO with a VCA.

But couldn't you just have it available when that particular row of knobs is
set as "gate" knobs? I.e., when the switch is in, that gate stays closed...

I'd still love two rows of 16... Guess I'll have to buy two!

David.

> From: "Dave Bradley" <daveb@...>
> 
> A couple more features for the wish list:
> 
> Glide knob, turned on and off from an input jack.
> Octave +/- transpose

Ditto!

If Paul follows all my past (dare I say brilliant) suggestions and utilizes 
some form of Thomas's "personality" concepts, then this WILL BE MOAS 
regardless of what it's called. I'm imagining that the sequencer will in some 
sense be "modular" with it's software updates and hackibility, so users will 
have the opportunity to make it many of the things already posted.

I do think that some performance interface MOTM module (hey! maybe a ribbon 
controller, or something similarly nontraditional!) could be located closer 
to a keyboard and the sequencer could still live in the rack.

Now maybe we can get back to some useful discussion of preamps and distortion 
modules -- why I oughta.....

JB

In a message dated 9/9/99 11:17:16 AM, daveb@... writes:

>> OK, so we know some basics of what DoMOAS will contain (see Paul quoted
>
>> below).
>
>>
>
>> What I'd like to talk about is the possibility of optimizing the
>
>> controls to
>
>> make DoMOAS a kick ass performance sequencer as well.
>
>
>
>Nobody has any comments about this???!!! 100 emails about a 1 unit PREAMP
>
>for cryin' out loud, but none about the sequencer design???!!!
>
>
>
>Paul may or may not ever get around to building MOAS, so DoMOAS could be
>our
>
>only shot. Speak up, all ye windbags!
>
>
>
>Moe
>
>

Ditto!! K.I.S.S. why make it too complex. I got a modular system because I 
didn't like the programming of digital systems.

>From: John Speth <johns@...>
>Reply-To: motm@onelist.com
>To: "'motm@onelist.com'" <motm@onelist.com>
>Subject: RE: [motm] DoMOAS live performance features
>Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:18:19 -0700
>
>From: John Speth <johns@...>
>
>On Thursday, September 09, 1999 2:56 PM, Mark Pulver
>[SMTP:mpulver@...] wrote:
> > Variable stage timing. This is the ability to have a stage set it's own
> > length. This allows for a sequence to be arhythmic. The MAQ 16/3 is like
> > this, as well as the arpeggiator and sequencer in the Q. It's a lot more
> > fun than you may think. :)
>
>Isn't "Variable stage timing" just the classic application of a 2 row x N
>step sequencer?  Row 2 CV output drives the VCO that clocks the sequencer
>and Row 1 provides the CV for use downstream.  Now *this* is the perfect
>reason for a M310 uVCO - to provide voltage controlled clocking of
>sequencers.
>
>I don't think the sequencer should be bogged down with every feature under
>the sun lest we get MOAS again.  I *do* think it should be carefully
>crafted to interface well with other modules and that perfection can be
>found in simplicity.
>
>John Speth
>Object Engineering, Inc
>mailto:johns@...
>
>
>
>
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I was very disappointed to hear that MOAS may never be implemented.
Therefore, for what it's worth, I want as many features as possible. I don't
want to have to go buy some combination of vintage Moog, Roland, ARP, etc.
gear just to get a full-featured sequencer. I don't think MOTM was ever
intended to be a budget instrument; I think it's rather luxurious myself.
I'd like the sequencer to maintain that level of sophistication. I'd be more
willing to accept a ton of compromises and cut-downs on this module if I
knew a MOAS was in the pipeline, but apparently it is not for sure.

> I don't think the sequencer should be bogged down with every
> feature under
> the sun lest we get MOAS again.  I *do* think it should be carefully
> crafted to interface well with other modules and that perfection can be
> found in simplicity.
>
> John Speth
> Object Engineering, Inc
> mailto:johns@...
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> How would you like to have a voice in the marketplace and be
> rewarded for it? SurveySpot members earn cash and prizes for
> taking part in market research studies!
>  <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/surveyspot1 ">Click Here</a>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Hear Hear" or is it "Here Here.
I was also a bit disappointed to hear MOAS was to be cut down in its prime.
I was hoping for at least a Regel Werk or is it Schaltwerk, anyway the big
Doepfer. If it is a problem with cost or complexity, why not split the
module over a couple of months.

Regards
Andy


>From: "David Bivins" <david@...>
>
>I was very disappointed to hear that MOAS may never be implemented.
>Therefore, for what it's worth, I want as many features as possible. I
don't
>want to have to go buy some combination of vintage Moog, Roland, ARP, >etc.
>gear just to get a full-featured sequencer. I don't think MOTM was ever
>intended to be a budget instrument; I think it's rather luxurious myself.
>I'd like the sequencer to maintain that level of sophistication. I'd be
more
>willing to accept a ton of compromises and cut-downs on this module if I
>knew a MOAS was in the pipeline, but apparently it is not for sure