MOTM

Hi,

I've long wanted to build a Master Clock box to let me run all my
sequencers and arpeggiators from one source.

It would need to have a very stable clock (20bpm-200bpm) with various
outputs ie. clock/2, clock/4, clock/8. It would also have negative
and positive going triggers, gates and a few inverters.

I recall that in the 70's there was a device like this called Doctor
Click.

Does anyone have schematics or ideas for building such a beast?


Cheers,

Richard.

>I've long wanted to build a Master Clock box to let me run all my
>sequencers and arpeggiators from one source.

Would that be any different than choosing one of the clock sources you
already have?? If you use MIDI, SMPTE, or use a digital multitrack, that
should be the master.

>It would need to have a very stable clock (20bpm-200bpm) with various
>outputs ie. clock/2, clock/4, clock/8. It would also have negative
>and positive going triggers, gates and a few inverters.
>
>I recall that in the 70's there was a device like this called Doctor
>Click.
>
>Does anyone have schematics or ideas for building such a beast?

I have a Garfield Dr. Click. It was made in the early 80's. It does what
you say and more, however I usually slave it to the Sync24 or arpeggiator
clock output of my Kenton Pro4. I don't have the schematics, but even if I
did, there would be no way you want to clone it!! It has several massive
PCB's filled with _hundreds_ of chips.

Afaik, Blacet sells a chip that extracts MIDI beat clock, and it is not
difficult to build circuits that divide by even numbers. I would do a web
search, and look at the application notes for CMOS 4013, 4018, 4040, 4047;
7474, and the 555 timer. Pay attention to pulse width -- not all divider
circuits work the same way. You should also be able to find a number of
gate and trigger circuits at the various synth sites.

> >Korg Electribe-S drum machine as master clock (Midi),
>
> Really?? I would have never guessed you used gear like that!!

I hope it will be heard when I have finished my next CD. (;->)

But I admit that I don't really make much use of the thousand
functions of the ES-1. I'm not too good at drum programming,
and sampling new sounds isn't what I will spend many hours either.

However, I'm using the ES-1 together with one of my home-built
phasers. This has two independent stereo channels, and the resonance
is rather "controlled" up to almost self oscillation, and I'm modulating
the two stereo channels with a Sample & Hold (2nd channel with
inverted modulation).
When I run the ES-1 thru *this*, it doesn't sound like samples
anymore (nor like the cheap built-in effects). The drum samples
trigger the almost-self oscillation of the phaser; that's 3 BPF peaks
on each side, and with the "pole spread" feature the 3 BPFs aren't
linked in a constant pattern like on an ordinary phaser.
If you look at these old analogue drum machines, they often contain
almost-self oscillating filters for some of the instruments, and
here it is very similar. The difference is that the pitch of these
"phaser drums" is changed with the S&H every couple of beats,
and they are triggered by samples (from the ES-1) rather than with
simple gate signals. It's a very unique drum machine, with new
instruments kicked in all the time without actually programming
them. (;->) It's hard to describe in words, but I think the next CD
will have a couple oft tracks that are based on this.

> >Frostwave Fat Contoller sequencer to convert Midi clock to analogue Gate
> >(which then is used as an analog master clock for the whole studio).
> >Digital delay (TC Electronic D-Two - awsome delay !) also sync'ed
> >to Midi Clock.
>
> I like those too, but I've made a decision not to invest in any more
> digital gear, or at least not new digital gear. It's like setting money

on

> fire.

Well, i think along similar paths, really, but the FAT controller was
less expensive than the Korg SQ-10 which I had before, and I like
it so much better.

> I like the idea of a PLL synced BBD delay, but I don't know what math

would

> be required so that ratio between the input clock and clock driving the

BBD

> would result in a musical relationship such as a quarter note.

The length of the usual BBD chips is often a power of 2 (512, 1024 etc.),
so the inverse clock frequency and the desired delay time will also have
some 2**n ratio. All you have to do is to "multiply" the frequency of your
midi clock or DIN sync or similar with a short variable factor (for the
"12" in the clock, and for the user defined variable factor), and then with
2*N. So a PLL with a large binary counter in the loop should do it.
(plus the little "12 and variable" stuff, as in the Blacet applications)

The drawback is the very long settling time for the PLL, so (as someone
pointed out on this list before) you'd have to run the clock all the time,
and not just start it when your song starts.

This is *all* theory - I have *not* tried this (nor will I try it in the
near
future.)

JH.

>I hope it will be heard when I have finished my next CD. (;->)

Yes, I've heard great things about your last cd, although I haven't heard
it myself.

>But I admit that I don't really make much use of the thousand
>functions of the ES-1. I'm not too good at drum programming,
>and sampling new sounds isn't what I will spend many hours either.

If I used an ES-1, I wouldn't be too good at drum programming either :)
Imho, effective drum programming requires both a drum machine with an
excellent interface, and being extremely familiar with that interface.

I use a 909 (along with its external mode to play samples) Now, I also
have a 707 which has a sequencer that is almost identical to the 909, but I
never use it to program drums. Why?? The 909 has a much more ergonomic
and tactile controls -- its bigger and the keys clack. I think that is
very important, so that you can program it without looking or thinking.

I understand what you mean about not using the "thousand functions". I
know that many people use MIDI software to program drums, but that has
never worked for me. I think it is important to actually hit something,
and using the keys on a keyboard just doesn't feel right.

However, I occasionally use Recycle to lift MIDI out of drum loops. When
Synthesis Technology finally releases the VC Pulse Divider, I'm thinking I
could use it with DIN sync to roll breakbeats :)

>However, I'm using the ES-1 together with one of my home-built
>phasers. This has two independent stereo channels, and the resonance
>is rather "controlled" up to almost self oscillation, and I'm modulating
>the two stereo channels with a Sample & Hold (2nd channel with
>inverted modulation).

I hope you appreciate at this point, that you've probably built more gear
than most people own :)

>When I run the ES-1 thru *this*, it doesn't sound like samples
>anymore (nor like the cheap built-in effects).

Well that's good!!

>The drum samples trigger the almost-self oscillation of the phaser;
>that's 3 BPF peaks on each side, and with the "pole spread" feature
>the 3 BPFs aren't linked in a constant pattern like on an ordinary phaser.
>If you look at these old analogue drum machines, they often contain
>almost-self oscillating filters for some of the instruments, and
>here it is very similar. The difference is that the pitch of these
>"phaser drums" is changed with the S&H every couple of beats,
>and they are triggered by samples (from the ES-1) rather than with
>simple gate signals. It's a very unique drum machine, with new
>instruments kicked in all the time without actually programming
>them. (;->) It's hard to describe in words, but I think the next CD
>will have a couple oft tracks that are based on this.

I used to have a huge ass pile of analogue "drum brains" -- Simmons, Tama,
Boss, etc., but I've sold all of them except one PC-2 and one Dr. Pad.
Besides the fact that they took up a massive amount of space, they weren't
voltage controllable. As my MOTM system grows I will probably use more
modulated drum sounds. As it stands now, I tend to use effects -- synced
to MIDI clock, swept by the 320 (which takes a bit of doing to
synchronize), swept by gates run through the 820, or *gasp* using the CV
output of a TB-303 as an LFO. Unfortunately, the synced LFO outputs of the
Pro4 and Dr. Click are too fast to be useful.

>Well, i think along similar paths, really, but the FAT controller was
>less expensive than the Korg SQ-10 which I had before, and I like
>it so much better.

Oh, I'm thinking of getting a FAT controller, but there is no way I'm going
to go buy a new digital delay. One thing I don't like about the FAT is
that you cannot advance stages with single pulses.

>The drawback is the very long settling time for the PLL, so (as someone
>pointed out on this list before) you'd have to run the clock all the time,
>and not just start it when your song starts.

Which is the case with Roland, or you could just pre-roll (if you were
really fanatical you could add an LED indicator to show when it finally
locks). Also, considering that a BBD can only be clocked over a limited
range and you wouldn't use a synced delay for chorus or flanging effects,
you could limit the VCO so that it would settle quicker, and even choose a
center frequency based on a typical tempo input (like 140 BPM). Another
way would be to use digital to calculate the BBD clock.

Then again, I only have one chip left, and I should probably keep it for
repair purposes. Oh well...

>This is *all* theory - I have *not* tried this (nor will I try it in the
>near future.)

Right, you should spend all your time working on MOTM modules ;)

> However, I occasionally use Recycle to lift MIDI out of drum loops. When
> Synthesis Technology finally releases the VC Pulse Divider, I'm thinking I
> could use it with DIN sync to roll breakbeats :)

Yes, a pulse divider and a MOTM-440 filter will be a very useful tool
to create analog bass drum and tom sounds.
I was very "anti drum machine" in the past, mostly because I'm not
good at programming drum patterns, and I'm not very skilled to record
drums by hitting pads either. So for my first CD (that was around 1998)
I used a very simple clock source (basically extracted the beat from a
pre-recorded bass line with an envelope generator module - *not*
envelope follower, but this is another story), a 8-step sequencer
and a VC-divider. Tweaking the divider factor with one
hand, and the cutoff frequency of a SSM2040 filter with high resonance
with the other hand, I got my drum track in real time. It was a slow,
sparse drum orchestration, and I had to do a second run for hihats
and the like (noise thru a resonant HP-VCF this time), but I liked
the result a lot. The sound generation is very similar to the classic
analogue drum computers, only that I had not several instruments
in parallel, but reconfigured one and the same filter for different
instruments on the fly. This is *bad* if you want to repeat the same
pattern several times, of course, but it's *good* if repetition is
something you want to avoid. Actually the reverse of adding
randomness to a perfect repetition: My trying (but failing) to
make exact repetitions just created the "right" (to me) "controlled
randomness". And the *one* thing where I would have been
completely helpless (keeping the exact timing) was of course taken
care for by the prerecorded master clock: The VC divider allowed
for variation, but not for missing the beat.

> Oh, I'm thinking of getting a FAT controller, but there is no way I'm

going

> to go buy a new digital delay.

I don't want to sound like a TC Electronic sales man, but after a long time
of fighting the thought about spending more than 500 Dollars for a delay,
when the decision was finally made, I could not await to get my D-Two.
There actually was a shortage in Germany, and I called Thomann every day
why their web page said "available" and they could not deliver it. (;->)
This box is really awesome, and if I could only keep *one* delay, I'd
probably sell my collection of BBD boxes and the Deltalab, and keep the
D-Two. (Ok, I would probably not sell my Roland RE-201.)

> Right, you should spend all your time working on MOTM modules ;)

Then Paul would have to hire 10 people to make the layouts and the
mechanical
parts to keep track (;->) - This is no stupid self-praise; it's just that
the
circuit is only a small part of the whole thing -, and with such inflation,
MOTM might go the sad way of Moog and ARP and other great companies ...

JH.

> If I used an ES-1, I wouldn't be too good at drum programming either :)
> Imho, effective drum programming requires both a drum machine with an
> excellent interface, and being extremely familiar with that interface.

hmm hello all,

relatively nasty piece of kit that it is i feel i should step forward a
defend the ES-1 at least just a little

okay, so the preset samples are appalling, the sample editing is appalling,
the midi timing is really appalling, and loads of other annoying stuff - but
i find it's a great writing tool, and has probably saved me a stack of money
buying over-priced classic drum machines. i bought it as part of a plan to
simplify my set up, and to utilise for gigging - and it's achieved both, i
can dump samples from my computer without any editing needed within the ES1,
and i generally just fill it with shortwave radio samples and play...
...oh yes, and it's got lots of pretty lights

cheers
paul b

>Yes, a pulse divider and a MOTM-440 filter will be a very useful tool
>to create analog bass drum and tom sounds.
>I was very "anti drum machine" in the past, mostly because I'm not
>good at programming drum patterns, and I'm not very skilled to record
>drums by hitting pads either.

Frankly, I don't think the two have much to do with each other. When I
first got into electronic music, I wondered out loud whether or not I would
be good at drum programming. I was told, "of course you could program
drums you can play drums!" In retrospect, it was idiotic advice for a
number of reasons. It was like saying, "of course you can do speech
synthesis you can talk!"

Rhythm has to do with feeling, but drum programming has much more to do
with forethought, and has extremely little to do with the physical ability
to play real drums. I know a number of electronic musicians who went out
and got drum pads to help with their drum programming who sold them soon
afterward.

However, some of the best "non-drummers" I've known were jazz pianists, and
schooled drummers often take piano lessons. I believe the reason is that a
pianist learns the theory behind building tension and syncopation, and is
taught to "look ahead". Imho, that ability to set things up for future
events, along with the ability to feel what you are doing in the present
moment, is what is important in drum programming. That is why complicated
interfaces, or lagged systems such as MIDI, are no good.

>So for my first CD (that was around 1998)
>I used a very simple clock source (basically extracted the beat from a
>pre-recorded bass line with an envelope generator module - *not*
>envelope follower, but this is another story), a 8-step sequencer
>and a VC-divider.

Was this a Serge module, did you build it yourself, or is this a stupid
question?? :)

>Tweaking the divider factor with one
>hand, and the cutoff frequency of a SSM2040 filter with high resonance
>with the other hand, I got my drum track in real time.

I don't think I understand what the 8-step sequencer did in this setup --
was that to control the pitch of of the filter (high tom, low tom kick,
etc.)?? Although the system you describe is oddly innovative, it is still
simple, immediate and tactile. That's what you want!! :)

Just to keep this on-topic, using the pedal interface or CV source (like an
800) with the future VC pulse divider, or by using the 700 with a fixed
divider and a mixer, one could drop rests in the manner you describe. With
both a VC pulse divider and a fixed divider using a fast clock (such as DIN
sync) I imagine with enough practice one could do rolls, shuffles, flams,
etc. Never underestimate the power of a good flam. Listen to Bruford's
5/5 on Larks Toungues in Aspic -- you can't do that with MIDI!! Why
computers can only do triplet and even time signatures is beyond me.

>It was a slow, sparse drum orchestration, and I had to do a second run
>for hihats and the like (noise thru a resonant HP-VCF this time), but I
>>liked the result a lot. The sound generation is very similar to the
>classic analogue drum computers, only that I had not several instruments
>in parallel, but reconfigured one and the same filter for different
>instruments on the fly. This is *bad* if you want to repeat the same
>pattern several times, of course, but it's *good* if repetition is
>something you want to avoid.

Yes, exactly -- unlike samples, analogue drums sound a little bit different
each time, like real drums.

>Actually the reverse of adding randomness to a perfect repetition:
>My trying (but failing) to make exact repetitions just created the
>"right" (to me) "controlled randomness". And the *one* thing where I
>would have been completely helpless (keeping the exact timing) was of
>>course taken care for by the prerecorded master clock: The VC divider
>>allowed for variation, but not for missing the beat.

It wasn't so much "randomness", as "human inperfection". It's one reason
why I don't like MIDI -- its inperfections are random and have no sort of
feeling. I prefer trying to make electronics sound more human, as opposed
to taking recordings of humans and making them sound more electronic. I
know there are a number of MOTM junglists, but that's one of the reasons I
don't like jungle.

>I don't want to sound like a TC Electronic sales man, but after a long time
>of fighting the thought about spending more than 500 Dollars for a delay,
>when the decision was finally made, I could not await to get my D-Two.
>There actually was a shortage in Germany, and I called Thomann every day
>why their web page said "available" and they could not deliver it. (;->)
>This box is really awesome, and if I could only keep *one* delay, I'd
>probably sell my collection of BBD boxes and the Deltalab, and keep the
>D-Two. (Ok, I would probably not sell my Roland RE-201.)

Does it do a reverse delay?? That's one of the reasons why I'm keeping my
SDE-330. That, and it has a uniquely warm flanger. Come to think of it,
it's rather odd how much digital flangers differ in sound!! You would
think they would all basically do the same thing. Anyway, since I don't
think I could justify having six DSP boxes, I would have to sell one before
buying a used D-Two. (I wouldn't sell my RE-201 either, unless maybe I
found a 301).

>Then Paul would have to hire 10 people to make the layouts and the
>mechanical parts to keep track (;->) - This is no stupid self-praise;
>it's just that the circuit is only a small part of the whole thing -, and
>>with such inflation, MOTM might go the sad way of Moog and ARP and other
>>great companies ...

Let's hope not!!! While the dollar here seems fairly stable, I know what
you mean. Business is business. I wish Paul all the best with his NAMM
show and these new micro-modules. Even though I have little interest in
them myself personally, I'm all for the micro series if it is good for the
company. I know I frequently complain about modules that haven't come out
yet, but it would be far worse if Synthesis Technology went out of business
entirely. When soldering season rolls around (you can't leave the windows
open in New England during winter), I plan on contributing as much as I can
afford.

> >I built it myself. It was inspired by the verbal description of the Serge
> >catalog back then. (I've never seen the original circuit.) I have
> >published my version of the circuit some years ago, it's at
> >http://home.debitel.net/user/jhaible/additional_schemos.html
> >(look for "voltage controlled divide-by-N".)
>
> That looks quite imaginative!! I'm having a bit of trouble understanding
> how the "staircase" generator works. However, I do understand how its
> amplitude increases by one "stair" for each input pulse until it reaches
> the threshold of the comparator. It also seems to divide by 2N rather

than

> N, but it's quite likely I'm misreading something.

Actually, each slope (positive *and* negative) provides one "staircase
step",
which would be x2 / N, and this is followed by flipflop, so it's
x2 / N / 2 = 1/N.
This is to get a square wave output rather than narrow pulses.

JH.

>> Gentle Giant is another favorite band of mine. Time signatures of
>> "So Sincere" and "Cogs in Cogs" - big fun to listen to. No way to program
>>> such stuff on a machine.
>
> You're absolutely right, there isn't, and with gigahertz computers now
> available, I have to wonder why.

Problem isn't the technology, it's people's laziness... Weasel Walter
(Flying Luttenbachers) wrote several tunes for my band Strawberry, with
insane time signatures and tempo changes - all on the computer. He handed me
off a MIDI file, and I was able to print sheet music out of DP for everyone.

The Flying Luttenbachers are an amazing live band, and have been touring
relentlessly (USA & Europe) -- check them out! Free Jazz/Death Metal/Prog/No
Wave...

Fellow fans of Gentle Giant may also look out for Cheer Accident. Their
records are so-so, but their live shows are truly great. Only comparison I
could easily make is to GG... They tour only occasionally, but play in
Chicago regularly.