Milter-greylist

Hi,

Now I got a new problem, there seems to be some servers that doesn't 
retry to send again after the first denial/delay.

Here is my servers log:
Jan 21 20:51:32 www milter-greylist: j0M1pWmB049792: addr 
212.78.202.217 from <test@...> to <macper@...> delayed 
for 00:01:00
Jan 21 20:51:32 www sm-mta[49792]: j0M1pWmB049792: 
from=<test@...>, size=1936, class=0, nrcpts=0, proto=ESMTP, 
daemon=MTA, relay=lmfilto03.st1.spray.net [212.78.202.217]

This is the error that comes to test@...:
Return-Path: <MAILER-DAEMON@...>
Received: from cmdeliver.vip.spray.net (lmin05.st1.spray.net 
[212.78.202.105])
by cmdeliver11.st1.spray.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D4F5842ED
for <test@...>; Sat, 22 Jan 2005 01:50:14 +0000 (GMT)
Received: from lmfilto01.st1.spray.net (lmfilto01.st1.spray.net 
[212.78.202.65])
by lmin05.st1.spray.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CC5F16277
for <test@...>; Sat, 22 Jan 2005 01:50:14 +0000 (GMT)
Received: by lmfilto01.st1.spray.net (Postfix)
id ED3F216EC36; Sat, 22 Jan 2005 01:50:13 +0000 (GMT)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 01:50:13 +0000 (GMT)

From: MAILER-DAEMON@... (Mail Delivery System)
Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
To: test@...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status;
boundary="2101816EDD0.1106358613/lmfilto01.st1.spray.net"
Message-Id: <20050122015013.ED3F216EC36@...>

Does anyone have ANY clue what is happening ?  It must depend on 
milter-greylist since it is working fine without it.

Sincerely
/Roberth

roxpace_ <roxpace@...> wrote:

> Does anyone have ANY clue what is happening ?  It must depend on 
> milter-greylist since it is working fine without it.

Perhaps the sending MTA does not retry at all. What is in the body of
the delivery status notification?

-- 
Emmanuel Dreyfus
http://hcpnet.free.fr/pubz
manu@...

--- In milter-greylist@yahoogroups.com, manu@n... wrote:
> roxpace_ <roxpace@w...> wrote:
> 
> > Does anyone have ANY clue what is happening ?  It must depend on 
> > milter-greylist since it is working fine without it.
> 
> Perhaps the sending MTA does not retry at all. What is in the body 
of
> the delivery status notification?
> 

Thanks for the quick reply.

Unfortunately it's the entire message including headers which you 
could see and this was from one of the biggest email isps in Sweden, 
I think self it is very bad.

It can be so that they don't repeat all messages, and if so how 
common is that and/or what can we do about that who wanna use this 
greylisting procedure ?

Thanks a lot

Sincerely
/Roberth

roxpace_ <roxpace@...> wrote:

> It can be so that they don't repeat all messages, and if so how 
> common is that and/or what can we do about that who wanna use this 
> greylisting procedure ?

Whitelist them.

-- 
Emmanuel Dreyfus
http://hcpnet.free.fr/pubz
manu@...

--- In milter-greylist@yahoogroups.com, manu@n... wrote:
> roxpace_ <roxpace@w...> wrote:
> 
> > It can be so that they don't repeat all messages, and if so how 
> > common is that and/or what can we do about that who wanna use 
this 
> > greylisting procedure ?
> 
> Whitelist them.
> 
> -- 
> Emmanuel Dreyfus

Then, I have a question.  I have many users who regularly receive 
mails from many countries.  I have no idea if those servers repeat 
or not repeat messages.  The chances are that some of them may not 
repeat, you never know in advance.  It seems that the way to know 
those not-repeat-message-servers is to let my users miss some (maybe 
a lot) emails before they realize and report the problem to me.  
They will be very upset! (I will be upset too if that happens to 
me).  Is this the case it should be?  I have no way to ask every 
user in my system to tell me whom they should receive email from.  
Then, what to do?

Thanks!

Harvey

Here is the trick (because sendmail remove +xxxxx in email address)

whitelist the rcpt

rcpt /.*+FAST@.../

and ask your users to add +FAST to email address for your site.

FAST is your secret.

--
Christian Pélissier
Office National d'Études et de Recherches Aérospatiales BP 72 92322 Chatillon
Tel: 33 1 46 73 44 19, Fax: 33 1 46 73 41 50

On Fri, Jan 28, 2005 at 03:48:21PM -0000, hvli wrote:
> Then, I have a question.  I have many users who regularly receive 
> mails from many countries.  I have no idea if those servers repeat 
> or not repeat messages.  The chances are that some of them may not 
> repeat, you never know in advance.  It seems that the way to know 
> those not-repeat-message-servers is to let my users miss some (maybe 
> a lot) emails before they realize and report the problem to me.  
> They will be very upset! (I will be upset too if that happens to 
> me).  Is this the case it should be?  I have no way to ask every 
> user in my system to tell me whom they should receive email from.  
> Then, what to do?

Non resending hosts violate the SMTP standard. They already loose mail
on a random basis without greylisting: if a server is too busy, it will
refuse new message with a temporary error, and a non resending server
will loose the server.

greylisting makes the loss permanent. This is a great opportunity for
the borken site to discover the wrong setup and fix it. In any wase, 
the person to blame is the non resending site administrator. 

-- 
Emmanuel Dreyfus
manu@...

--- Christian Pelissier <Christian.Pelissier@...>
wrote:

> Here is the trick (because sendmail remove +xxxxx in
> email address)
> 
> whitelist the rcpt
> 
> rcpt /.*+FAST@.../
> 
> and ask your users to add +FAST to email address for
> your site.
> 
> FAST is your secret.
> 

Could you explain more in detail?  If my server is
aaa.bbb.ccc (i.e. my user's email address is
uuu@...), and I select a secret sss, then I
should ask all of my users to tell all of their
friends/colleagues etc. that the new email address is
uuu+sss@..., is it correct?  If that is the
case, it is not doable.  Maybe I misunderstood your
trick.

Thanks!

Harvey


		
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--- Emmanuel Dreyfus <manu@...> wrote:

> On Fri, Jan 28, 2005 at 03:48:21PM -0000, hvli
> wrote:
> > Then, I have a question.  I have many users who
> regularly receive 
> > mails from many countries.  I have no idea if
> those servers repeat 
> > or not repeat messages.  The chances are that some
> of them may not 
> > repeat, you never know in advance.  It seems that
> the way to know 
> > those not-repeat-message-servers is to let my
> users miss some (maybe 
> > a lot) emails before they realize and report the
> problem to me.  
> > They will be very upset! (I will be upset too if
> that happens to 
> > me).  Is this the case it should be?  I have no
> way to ask every 
> > user in my system to tell me whom they should
> receive email from.  
> > Then, what to do?
> 
> Non resending hosts violate the SMTP standard. They
> already loose mail
> on a random basis without greylisting: if a server
> is too busy, it will
> refuse new message with a temporary error, and a non
> resending server
> will loose the server.
> 
> greylisting makes the loss permanent. This is a
> great opportunity for
> the borken site to discover the wrong setup and fix
> it. In any wase, 
> the person to blame is the non resending site
> administrator. 
> 
> -- 
> Emmanuel Dreyfus
> manu@...
> 

Could you explain what information the greylist will
send to the sender's server before my server accepts
the message?  Something like "server temporarily not
available", "Please resend message again", or
something else? 

Thanks!

Harvey

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>Could you explain more in detail?  If my server is
>aaa.bbb.ccc (i.e. my user's email address is
>uuu@...), and I select a secret sss, then I
>should ask all of my users to tell all of their

Not all, only those with greylisting problems.

>friends/colleagues etc. that the new email address is
>uuu+sss@..., is it correct?  If that is the
>case, it is not doable.  Maybe I misunderstood your
>trick.


It's not a new email address; it's a feature of sendmail.

All of your users can receive email with uuu+sss@... (try from
a webmail on your address).

the only thing that sendmail must known is all your uuu (no need to know sss)

the only thing to add to greylist.conf is rcpt /.*+sss@.../





--
Christian Pélissier
Office National d'Études et de Recherches Aérospatiales BP 72 92322 Chatillon
Tel: 33 1 46 73 44 19, Fax: 33 1 46 73 41 50

--- Christian Pelissier <Christian.Pelissier@...>
wrote:

> 
> 
> >Could you explain more in detail?  If my server is
> >aaa.bbb.ccc (i.e. my user's email address is
> >uuu@...), and I select a secret sss, then I
> >should ask all of my users to tell all of their
> 
> Not all, only those with greylisting problems.

As I said in my previous mail that there is no way to
know in advance WHICH servers may have problem until
my users have lost many mails and report to me.

How can you know "those" servers?

> 
> >friends/colleagues etc. that the new email address
> is
> >uuu+sss@..., is it correct?  If that is the
> >case, it is not doable.  Maybe I misunderstood your
> >trick.
> 
> 
> It's not a new email address; it's a feature of
> sendmail.
> 
> All of your users can receive email with
> uuu+sss@... (try from
> a webmail on your address).
> 
> the only thing that sendmail must known is all your
> uuu (no need to know sss)
> 
> the only thing to add to greylist.conf is rcpt
> /.*+sss@.../
> 

I am still not clear if I need to ask my users to do
anything.  Nothing?  

Thanks!

Harvey


		
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On Fri, Jan 28, 2005 at 08:21:18AM -0800, H Li wrote:
> Could you explain what information the greylist will
> send to the sender's server before my server accepts
> the message?  Something like "server temporarily not
> available", "Please resend message again", or
> something else? 

It says 
451 4.7.1 Greylisting in action, please come back in 00:05:00

But the sender SMTP server only understands the codes: 451 4.7.1
451 means Requested action aborted: local error in processing. 
4.x.x means Persistent Transient Failure
x.7.x means Security or Policy Status
x.7.1 means Delivery not authorized, message refused

You can change the codes by patching the source (in milter-greylist.c)
and rebuilding.

-- 
Emmanuel Dreyfus
manu@...

--- Emmanuel Dreyfus <manu@...> wrote:

> On Fri, Jan 28, 2005 at 08:21:18AM -0800, H Li
> wrote:
> > Could you explain what information the greylist
> will
> > send to the sender's server before my server
> accepts
> > the message?  Something like "server temporarily
> not
> > available", "Please resend message again", or
> > something else? 
> 
> It says 
> 451 4.7.1 Greylisting in action, please come back in
> 00:05:00
> 
> But the sender SMTP server only understands the
> codes: 451 4.7.1
> 451 means Requested action aborted: local error in
> processing. 
> 4.x.x means Persistent Transient Failure
> x.7.x means Security or Policy Status
> x.7.1 means Delivery not authorized, message refused
> 
> You can change the codes by patching the source (in
> milter-greylist.c)
> and rebuilding.
> 
> -- 
> Emmanuel Dreyfus
> manu@...
> 
Thank you very much!

Harvey



		
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