Emax

I now have this taped to my Emax as a reminder!  :-)




It does help me to remember!  :-)

Trying to keep the head alive is like trying to keep your "vintage  
keyboard" going!  ;-)



***************************************
- This communication is confidential to the parties it is intended to  
serve -

Truth does not fear investigation.

"There are no secrets that time does not reveal."  -- Jean Racine (1669)







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I guess the photo I attached to this email was dropped by the servers  
as a
possible virus or trojan!  It was a shot from the 1950's American  
horror film
"The Head That Would Not Die", I think...  All of the wires and cables  
running
in and out of the woman's severed-head in a pan of water!  Above her  
is the
sign that says:  "Plan A Head"!  :-)


On 15 Jul 2009, at 00:45, ss wrote:

>
>
> I now have this taped to my Emax as a reminder! :-)
>
> It does help me to remember! :-)
>
> Trying to keep the head alive is like trying to keep your "vintage
> keyboard" going! ;-)
>




***************************************
- This communication is confidential to the parties it is intended to  
serve -

Truth does not fear investigation.

"There are no secrets that time does not reveal."  -- Jean Racine (1669)







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

...doesn't the emax only have half a meg of RAM?
:-)

Also, it's 1 MB, not MG.  MG is for milligrams.

or little two seat British sports cars...


On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 3:29 PM, apostulate <apostulate@...> wrote:

>
>
> Also, it's 1 MB, not MG. MG is for milligrams.
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

But that said, seeing that the emax stores its 12 bit PCM samples in a
single 8 bit byte, it can record as many samples as a 16 bit sampler
with 1MB of RAM. (just more lofi! :-)


<brooksmosher@...> wrote:
> or little two seat British sports cars...
> 
I wish I had 1 MG!
:-)


julian


-- 
http://bleepin.com

-- 
http://www.fastmail.fm - Or how I learned to stop worrying and
                          love email again

Well at least all you guys are chiming-in and making a lot out of a  
little, right?  LOL!! :-)
All of this creative commentary!

Now there's a little life on this list because it was starting to  
sound like the MG Auto
email list!  FIAT = "Fix it again, Tony!"  ;-)

On 21 Jul 2009, at 20:53, Julian wrote:

> But that said, seeing that the emax stores its 12 bit PCM samples in a
> single 8 bit byte, it can record as many samples as a 16 bit sampler
> with 1MB of RAM. (just more lofi! :-)
>
> <brooksmosher@...> wrote:
> > or little two seat British sports cars...
> >
> I wish I had 1 MG!
> :-)
>
> julian




***************************************
- This communication is confidential to the parties it is intended to  
serve -







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

wrong it records its samples in 12bit and still puts it in 12bit data in 8bits memory be it compressed but you dont get 1mb equivalant 16bit samples

the memory works in the same way as  scsi1 its 8 bits but the the next 4bit  data is put in the next available 8bit location using compression but its still 12bits when its read back out of memory it reads the first 8bit location then the second 8bit location but only reading the first 4 bits data 

the compression program and the gal processor splits the memory up into 1 and a half 8bit codes locations in a memory table

thats how it does it the scsi works the same way the 12bit samples are recorded and sent to the scsi drive but are actualy saved in 16bits that is the same for all 12bit samplers the last 4bits are just zero,s filling up the 16bit data which is sent to the scsi 1 drive as 2 8bit data streams

this is what would happen to the emaxs memory if it was not for the compression program using a allocating table to distribute the data in 8bit and 4 bit segments to the 12bit dacs 

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Julian 
  To: emax@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 4:53 AM
  Subject: Re: [emax] Re: Only 1MG of RAM...!


    But that said, seeing that the emax stores its 12 bit PCM samples in a
  single 8 bit byte, it can record as many samples as a 16 bit sampler
  with 1MB of RAM. (just more lofi! :-)

  <brooksmosher@...> wrote:
  > or little two seat British sports cars...
  > 
  I wish I had 1 MG!
  :-)

  julian

  -- 
  http://bleepin.com

  -- 
  http://www.fastmail.fm - Or how I learned to stop worrying and
  love email again



  


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  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
  Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.21/2252 - Release Date: 07/21/09 05:58:00


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jammie,

The sound was certainly better, richer at one time.  I'm very  
concerned to get a higher quality of sound back again.

I listened last night to Eurythmic's "1984" soundtrack, and the  
sampling was so rich and so pure and so powerful!
I *wish* I knew what Dave Stewart was using as his techniques on that  
album at that time and what gear because
at the time it sounded "cold" but now it sounds very warm and rich  
compared to work being done today.

(Having Annie Lennox as your vocalist doesn't hurt going into your  
sampler, either!  Let's not forget that!) ;-)

People are realizing that things have not improved just because  
technology contains more, or has faster speeds as you
well know and have taken pains to explain in some part why.

The new Alesis analog-digital hybrid synths just sound like buzzing --  
it's horrible!  It's supposed to sound good or better!

Thank you for all of these great points!

And there is a difference in tone between the EIII and the EIV, too  
I've heard?  That's very disturbing...


On 21 Jul 2009, at 22:20, jammie wrote:

> wrong it records its samples in 12bit and still puts it in 12bit  
> data in 8bits memory be it compressed but you dont get 1mb  
> equivalant 16bit samples
>
> the memory works in the same way as scsi1 its 8 bits but the the  
> next 4bit data is put in the next available 8bit location using  
> compression but its still 12bits when its read back out of memory it  
> reads the first 8bit location then the second 8bit location but only  
> reading the first 4 bits data
>
> the compression program and the gal processor splits the memory up  
> into 1 and a half 8bit codes locations in a memory table
>
> thats how it does it the scsi works the same way the 12bit samples  
> are recorded and sent to the scsi drive but are actualy saved in  
> 16bits that is the same for all 12bit samplers the last 4bits are  
> just zero,s filling up the 16bit data which is sent to the scsi 1  
> drive as 2 8bit data streams
>
> this is what would happen to the emaxs memory if it was not for the  
> compression program using a allocating table to distribute the data  
> in 8bit and 4 bit segments to the 12bit dacs




***************************************
- This communication is confidential to the parties it is intended to  
serve -




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

he was using EII then he went on to use a fz1 which he ported all his samples to then he went onto a s1000

he was using mostly analogs

the filters are analog in the EIII where as the filters are digital in the e4 but the tone creativity of the e4 is way superior to the e3 the filters are warm 

but the vocal and other incredible filters in the e4 are amazing i own a morpheus which has 197 of these filters and the samples from the e3 

emulatorx2 you can create your own designating where the peaks are and how the resonance performs and you have the transfom multiplication algorythm

i love the sound of 8bit and 12bit samplers they have a grity sound due to poor adc,s but this added to the warmth of the machine in the emax1 they dont use any antiliasing filters but rely on the analog filters to do this in most samplers there is a lowpass antiliasing filter comprising of a 2pole opamp design before going into the analog filters but the emax does not have this furcillity so you get digital noise into the analog filters this adds to the sound also its the same for the korg dss1

but in digital systems its all done digital the sent to the dac where there is the antiliasing filter buffing opamp circuit before the line level circuits

the problem with digital it try,s to be correct as possible and there is no variation in its tone where as analog drifts slightly and each oscilator will be a little out of phase which adds to the beatting sound of the of the synths

you can emulate this by haveing 2 samples the same and starting the sample on a 180 o phase to the other and looping it on the 180 o sample and slightly detuneing it

this will give variation to the sound and you will get that pumping sound you can do this with single cycle samples try setng it to diferent phases and seeing what results you get 

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: ss 
  To: emax@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 9:25 AM
  Subject: Re: [emax] Re: Only 1MG of RAM...!


    Jammie,

  The sound was certainly better, richer at one time. I'm very 
  concerned to get a higher quality of sound back again.

  I listened last night to Eurythmic's "1984" soundtrack, and the 
  sampling was so rich and so pure and so powerful!
  I *wish* I knew what Dave Stewart was using as his techniques on that 
  album at that time and what gear because
  at the time it sounded "cold" but now it sounds very warm and rich 
  compared to work being done today.

  (Having Annie Lennox as your vocalist doesn't hurt going into your 
  sampler, either! Let's not forget that!) ;-)

  People are realizing that things have not improved just because 
  technology contains more, or has faster speeds as you
  well know and have taken pains to explain in some part why.

  The new Alesis analog-digital hybrid synths just sound like buzzing -- 
  it's horrible! It's supposed to sound good or better!

  Thank you for all of these great points!

  And there is a difference in tone between the EIII and the EIV, too 
  I've heard? That's very disturbing...

  On 21 Jul 2009, at 22:20, jammie wrote:

  > wrong it records its samples in 12bit and still puts it in 12bit 
  > data in 8bits memory be it compressed but you dont get 1mb 
  > equivalant 16bit samples
  >
  > the memory works in the same way as scsi1 its 8 bits but the the 
  > next 4bit data is put in the next available 8bit location using 
  > compression but its still 12bits when its read back out of memory it 
  > reads the first 8bit location then the second 8bit location but only 
  > reading the first 4 bits data
  >
  > the compression program and the gal processor splits the memory up 
  > into 1 and a half 8bit codes locations in a memory table
  >
  > thats how it does it the scsi works the same way the 12bit samples 
  > are recorded and sent to the scsi drive but are actualy saved in 
  > 16bits that is the same for all 12bit samplers the last 4bits are 
  > just zero,s filling up the 16bit data which is sent to the scsi 1 
  > drive as 2 8bit data streams
  >
  > this is what would happen to the emaxs memory if it was not for the 
  > compression program using a allocating table to distribute the data 
  > in 8bit and 4 bit segments to the 12bit dacs

  ***************************************
  - This communication is confidential to the parties it is intended to 
  serve -

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



  


------------------------------------------------------------------------------



  No virus found in this incoming message.
  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
  Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.22/2253 - Release Date: 07/21/09 18:02:00


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hey man, 

 

Are you talking about the Alesis Andromeda?  I know what you mean, but there is a lot buried in there, it doesn't sound immediately amazing like a model D or a Jupiter, but they can sound amazing, and the programming depth is unmatched.  If you haven't spend significant time on one ( I mean like months) it can be easy to miss the power and great sound, but that is kind of what happens when all your controls have more range than any synthesizer previously, I mean, envelopes that go up to 10 minutes per stage and such, keytrack that goes to 200% etc.  it's not a Juno where it is all sweet spot.

 

Ion I haven't spent time on to comment.
 


To: emax@yahoogroups.com

From: ssws1@...
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 01:25:39 -0700
Subject: Re: [emax] Re: Only 1MG of RAM...!

  



Jammie,

The sound was certainly better, richer at one time. I'm very 
concerned to get a higher quality of sound back again.

I listened last night to Eurythmic's "1984" soundtrack, and the 
sampling was so rich and so pure and so powerful!
I *wish* I knew what Dave Stewart was using as his techniques on that 
album at that time and what gear because
at the time it sounded "cold" but now it sounds very warm and rich 
compared to work being done today.

(Having Annie Lennox as your vocalist doesn't hurt going into your 
sampler, either! Let's not forget that!) ;-)

People are realizing that things have not improved just because 
technology contains more, or has faster speeds as you
well know and have taken pains to explain in some part why.

The new Alesis analog-digital hybrid synths just sound like buzzing -- 
it's horrible! It's supposed to sound good or better!

Thank you for all of these great points!

And there is a difference in tone between the EIII and the EIV, too 
I've heard? That's very disturbing...

On 21 Jul 2009, at 22:20, jammie wrote:

> wrong it records its samples in 12bit and still puts it in 12bit 
> data in 8bits memory be it compressed but you dont get 1mb 
> equivalant 16bit samples
>
> the memory works in the same way as scsi1 its 8 bits but the the 
> next 4bit data is put in the next available 8bit location using 
> compression but its still 12bits when its read back out of memory it 
> reads the first 8bit location then the second 8bit location but only 
> reading the first 4 bits data
>
> the compression program and the gal processor splits the memory up 
> into 1 and a half 8bit codes locations in a memory table
>
> thats how it does it the scsi works the same way the 12bit samples 
> are recorded and sent to the scsi drive but are actualy saved in 
> 16bits that is the same for all 12bit samplers the last 4bits are 
> just zero,s filling up the 16bit data which is sent to the scsi 1 
> drive as 2 8bit data streams
>
> this is what would happen to the emaxs memory if it was not for the 
> compression program using a allocating table to distribute the data 
> in 8bit and 4 bit segments to the 12bit dacs

***************************************
- This communication is confidential to the parties it is intended to 
serve -

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]









_________________________________________________________________
Bing� brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it now.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Well, actually you do get the equivalent of 1MB of 16 bit samples in the Emax I. A 1MB (16 bit) Emax II bank can be saved on a single floppy as a 512kB (8 bit) Emax I bank and loaded into an Emax I. Likewise, a 512kB Emax I bank can be loaded into a 1MB Emax II.

Your description sounds like how the Sequential Prophet 2000 stores 12 bit data in memory. The Emax only has 512kB of sample memory but can store 18.8 seconds at the 27.7k sampling rate (18.8 x 27.7k = 512k). The Emax floppy disk format also only allows for storage of 512kB of sample data. For the method you describe to be correct the Emax would need to have 768kB of sample memory to provide this sampling time and it would be unable to store this on a single floppy disk! 

My understanding is that the Emax digitally compresses each 12 bit linear sample word from the ADC to an 8 bit compressed sample word using a non-linear algorithm (similar to A-law/u-Law companding). The sample data is stored in memory and saved to disk as 8 bit data but the Emax converts each sample word back to linear 12 bit on the fly for output to the DACs and for sample dumping etc. I believe the Emulator II works in much the same way except its data companding occurs in the ADC/DAC chips.


--- In emax@yahoogroups.com, "jammie" <jammie.emma@...> wrote:

>
> wrong it records its samples in 12bit and still puts it in 12bit data in 8bits memory be it compressed but you dont get 1mb equivalant 16bit samples
> 
> the memory works in the same way as  scsi1 its 8 bits but the the next 4bit  data is put in the next available 8bit location using compression but its still 12bits when its read back out of memory it reads the first 8bit location then the second 8bit location but only reading the first 4 bits data 
> 
> the compression program and the gal processor splits the memory up into 1 and a half 8bit codes locations in a memory table
> 
> thats how it does it the scsi works the same way the 12bit samples are recorded and sent to the scsi drive but are actualy saved in 16bits that is the same for all 12bit samplers the last 4bits are just zero,s filling up the 16bit data which is sent to the scsi 1 drive as 2 8bit data streams
> 
> this is what would happen to the emaxs memory if it was not for the compression program using a allocating table to distribute the data in 8bit and 4 bit segments to the 12bit dacs 
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Julian 
>   To: emax@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 4:53 AM
>   Subject: Re: [emax] Re: Only 1MG of RAM...!
> 
> 
>     But that said, seeing that the emax stores its 12 bit PCM samples in a
>   single 8 bit byte, it can record as many samples as a 16 bit sampler
>   with 1MB of RAM. (just more lofi! :-)
> 
>   <brooksmosher@...> wrote:
>   > or little two seat British sports cars...
>   > 
>   I wish I had 1 MG!
>   :-)
> 
>   julian
> 
>   -- 
>   http://bleepin.com
> 
>   -- 
>   http://www.fastmail.fm - Or how I learned to stop worrying and
>   love email again
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
>   No virus found in this incoming message.
>   Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
>   Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.21/2252 - Release Date: 07/21/09 05:58:00
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Hi El Macaco!  :-)

Thanks for taking the time to jump-in and make these great comments!   
Wow!  Of course I love to look deeper into every instrument:  that's  
why we're all here, I think, because we all see how great the Emaxes  
are as musical instruments and not just as synths, samplers, etc.

On 22 Jul 2009, at 06:44, el macaco wrote:

>
> Hey man,
>
> Are you talking about the Alesis Andromeda?

No Macaco.  It was another Alesis synth that was very elaborate and I  
did get a long, elaborate demo from a guy who owned it and was showing  
me what he felt it could output.

>  I know what you mean, but there is a lot buried in there, it  
> doesn't sound immediately amazing like a model D or a Jupiter, but  
> they can sound amazing, and the programming depth is unmatched.

Like you I'm not a preset kind of guy either, Macaco.  And I would  
completely agree with you that each keyboard be it a synth or a  
sampler has it's own unique sound and it is a musical instrument that  
can (and really should) be explored and worked with.  And I say to  
you:  I think that's great!!!  I'd love nothing better than for you to  
pull-out the sound from a new synth and I'd love to hear what you're  
doing with it and what can be done with it that's unique and that  
makes it beautiful.  That's what this conversation is all about for  
me!  I'm really really happy you chimed in, Macaco.

>  If you haven't spend significant time on one ( I mean like months)  
> it can be easy to miss the power and great sound, but that is kind  
> of what happens when all your controls have more range than any  
> synthesizer previously, I mean, envelopes that go up to 10 minutes  
> per stage and such, keytrack that goes to 200% etc.

I may have been entirely in the hands of a person who was actually a  
novice with the instrument, because he was showing me nothing of what  
you are describing here and what he did in his demo for me which was  
about 15 min. or longer.  It sounds like what you are describing would  
be fantastic for a live performance instrument, you know?  I'd love to  
hear more about this from you to the group's list, how you use it with  
Emax, etc, and as a raw source for sound!  I apologize for sounding  
negative regarding that synth, but we are talking about different  
models -- no doubt.  Believe me, this guy's performance was long and  
*painful*.  It really sounded like a buzz-saw, Macaco -- no kidding.   
Everything he did was not atonal (because I love atonal too!) :-)   
This was a sound that was causing us discomfort, and it was portrayed  
as a synth to fill the role that the Access company is trying to do  
with their products.  Honestly, it was a really bad experience for  
everybody...  You had to be there.  I kept waiting and waiting, and  
you're right:  there must
be something buried in that unit someplace that makes it a unique  
piece.  But from what I heard, I would not want to use it at all.   
What I *should* have said was that what he played, that particular  
sound, is something I'm trying to get away from entirely in my own  
work...


>  it's not a Juno where it is all sweet spot.

A perfect description:  that's what I never liked about the Juno was  
that it was all sweet spot. Period.  It was like a Roland D-10 was  
simple.
I agree with you entirely.  The best things I've ever found have been  
the ones I've worked for.  I have one program on the D-50 that I can't
replicate on any other synth, and I had to work to get to it.   
(Actually one could replicate it now, but at the time it first came  
out no...)

That's the reason I've been trying to launch these conversations  
because I really want to talk with all of the cool people on this list  
that love the
EMU gear as much as I do, and the tips and tricks that we all use,  
etc.  I'll talk about anything and have no "secrets" to hide.  I'm  
like Jammie in that I love to talk about what we can do.

I just discovered, because of Jammie, a use for Melodyne Studio that  
I'm going to use and exploit with the Emax in creating single-cycle  
waves for it that I hope I'll be able to upload to share with  
everybody.  It's a very, very cool trick when you have the "RAM  
limitations".  But as Jammie said: it causes you to be creative in  
ways that you never thought of, and that's what I value the most --  
why I like the idea of an Emax User Group list like this one where we  
can all pool ideas and techniques.

For example I've been mulling-over what Elk was saying about using  
tape and I completely understand what he feels about tape saturation  
in his sound:  that's really a huge issue for me and I've only been  
able to find one way around the loss of tape saturation and going  
entirely digital, but he made me think everything through again that  
I'm working on right now...

>
> Ion I haven't spent time on to comment.
>

It was not the Ion model, either.  I'll have to dig it up -- my notes,  
and I'd love it if you'd fill us in on your feelings in the  
discussion, Macaco.
Look, I'm not a gear-snob.  I've worked a great deal at Skywalker  
Ranch,  on the high-end, and with kids who have nothing more than FL  
Studio
on the low-end of the gear price spectrum (or whatever you want to  
call it!)  And I've seen people with $250,000.00 Synclavier Towers and
million-dollar SSL mixing-consoles create NOTHING of any value at all  
while a 15 year old boy with FL Studio on a broken PC created something
really beautiful and astonishing!  What did I do?  I hung-out with the  
kid!!  :-)  I've had the choice and that's where I like to be for the  
most part!
We had Emaxes and the kids now have FL Studio and some of them just  
create little gems!  I love working with them!

Thank you for this email, man.  Please continue!!!

--Steven  :-)

PS - I always wanted an MG, but they broke-down more than Emaxes!   
I've not even seen a collector driving one of those in fifteen years  
or more... :-(

***************************************
- This communication is confidential to the parties it is intended to  
serve -



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

That's what killed the DX7, for example:  it was new and everything  
sounded "sweet" -- all presets.  Then it was all you heard and you  
never wanted to hear it again.  But if you listen to what Brian Eno  
did with his DX7 on the "Shutov Assembly" or Alan Splet's use of it in  
the film "Dune" for effects,
then it takes on an entirely different meaning.  Brian worked for  
years and years on his library of patches alone for the DX7.  Yes, the  
Juno was just like that too!  :-)

On 22 Jul 2009, at 06:44, el macaco wrote:

>  it's not a Juno where it is all sweet spot.




***************************************
- This communication is confidential to the parties it is intended to  
serve -







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Tristan!

May I ask how that effects your work, your end sound designs?

This is getting very interesting because I can now see the Emax I, II,  
EII, EIII, & EIV differently in terms of individual sound qualities in  
ways I never
did before.

I used to do a lot of these conversions with SoundHack...


On 22 Jul 2009, at 08:03, tristanupton wrote:

> Well, actually you do get the equivalent of 1MB of 16 bit samples in  
> the Emax I. A 1MB (16 bit) Emax II bank can be saved on a single  
> floppy as a 512kB (8 bit) Emax I bank and loaded into an Emax I.  
> Likewise, a 512kB Emax I bank can be loaded into a 1MB Emax II.
>
> Your description sounds like how the Sequential Prophet 2000 stores  
> 12 bit data in memory. The Emax only has 512kB of sample memory but  
> can store 18.8 seconds at the 27.7k sampling rate (18.8 x 27.7k =  
> 512k). The Emax floppy disk format also only allows for storage of  
> 512kB of sample data. For the method you describe to be correct the  
> Emax would need to have 768kB of sample memory to provide this  
> sampling time and it would be unable to store this on a single  
> floppy disk!
>
> My understanding is that the Emax digitally compresses each 12 bit  
> linear sample word from the ADC to an 8 bit compressed sample word  
> using a non-linear algorithm (similar to A-law/u-Law companding).  
> The sample data is stored in memory and saved to disk as 8 bit data  
> but the Emax converts each sample word back to linear 12 bit on the  
> fly for output to the DACs and for sample dumping etc. I believe the  
> Emulator II works in much the same way except its data companding  
> occurs in the ADC/DAC chips.




***************************************
- This communication is confidential to the parties it is intended to  
serve -






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Loading Emax banks on a Emax II is not necessarily that black and white. I know I have a hand full of banks that I did on an Emax that will not load on a 1 MB Emax II because it runs out of ram when uncompressing the bank. 
These are banks that I created on an emax where I ran out of ram.
 
Elk


________________________________

From: tristanupton <tu@alphalink.com.au>
To: emax@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 8:03:23 AM
Subject: [emax] Re: Only 1MG of RAM...!

  
Well, actually you do get the equivalent of 1MB of 16 bit samples in the Emax I. A 1MB (16 bit) Emax II bank can be saved on a single floppy as a 512kB (8 bit) Emax I bank and loaded into an Emax I. Likewise, a 512kB Emax I bank can be loaded into a 1MB Emax II.

Your description sounds like how the Sequential Prophet 2000 stores 12 bit data in memory. The Emax only has 512kB of sample memory but can store 18.8 seconds at the 27.7k sampling rate (18.8 x 27.7k = 512k). The Emax floppy disk format also only allows for storage of 512kB of sample data. For the method you describe to be correct the Emax would need to have 768kB of sample memory to provide this sampling time and it would be unable to store this on a single floppy disk! 

My understanding is that the Emax digitally compresses each 12 bit linear sample word from the ADC to an 8 bit compressed sample word using a non-linear algorithm (similar to A-law/u-Law companding). The sample data is stored in memory and saved to disk as 8 bit data but the Emax converts each sample word back to linear 12 bit on the fly for output to the DACs and for sample dumping etc. I believe the Emulator II works in much the same way except its data companding occurs in the ADC/DAC chips.

--- In emax@yahoogroups. com, "jammie" <jammie.emma@ ...> wrote:
>
> wrong it records its samples in 12bit and still puts it in 12bit data in 8bits memory be it compressed but you dont get 1mb equivalant 16bit samples
> 
> the memory works in the same way as scsi1 its 8 bits but the the next 4bit data is put in the next available 8bit location using compression but its still 12bits when its read back out of memory it reads the first 8bit location then the second 8bit location but only reading the first 4 bits data 
> 
> the compression program and the gal processor splits the memory up into 1 and a half 8bit codes locations in a memory table
> 
> thats how it does it the scsi works the same way the 12bit samples are recorded and sent to the scsi drive but are actualy saved in 16bits that is the same for all 12bit samplers the last 4bits are just zero,s filling up the 16bit data which is sent to the scsi 1 drive as 2 8bit data streams
> 
> this is what would happen to the emaxs memory if it was not for the compression program using a allocating table to distribute the data in 8bit and 4 bit segments to the 12bit dacs 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Julian 
> To: emax@yahoogroups. com 
> Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 4:53 AM
> Subject: Re: [emax] Re: Only 1MG of RAM...!
> 
> 
> But that said, seeing that the emax stores its 12 bit PCM samples in a
> single 8 bit byte, it can record as many samples as a 16 bit sampler
> with 1MB of RAM. (just more lofi! :-)
> 
> <brooksmosher@ ...> wrote:
> > or little two seat British sports cars...
> > 
> I wish I had 1 MG!
> :-)
> 
> julian
> 
> -- 
> http://bleepin. com
> 
> -- 
> http://www.fastmail.fm - Or how I learned to stop worrying and
> love email again
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> 
> 
> 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
> Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.21/2252 - Release Date: 07/21/09 05:58:00
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It actually makes no difference to my sound design as I only have Emax II and Esi 2000 samplers. 

For live use I sometimes used to save banks on the Emax II in the compressed format because it was faster to load one floppy and convert to 16 bit than it was to load two floppies. In the live performance context there was little audible difference between the 16 bit banks and the 8 bit compressed banks.

I also loaded some sound library disks from a friend's Emax into the Emax II and found the quality was excellent. Comparing the same bank played back by the Emax I and Emax II side by side I actually preferred the Emax II sound, although they were both good...

--- In emax@yahoogroups.com, ss <ssws1@...> wrote:

>
> Hi Tristan!
> 
> May I ask how that effects your work, your end sound designs?
> 
> This is getting very interesting because I can now see the Emax I, II,  
> EII, EIII, & EIV differently in terms of individual sound qualities in  
> ways I never
> did before.
> 
> I used to do a lot of these conversions with SoundHack...
> 
> 
> On 22 Jul 2009, at 08:03, tristanupton wrote:
> 
> > Well, actually you do get the equivalent of 1MB of 16 bit samples in  
> > the Emax I. A 1MB (16 bit) Emax II bank can be saved on a single  
> > floppy as a 512kB (8 bit) Emax I bank and loaded into an Emax I.  
> > Likewise, a 512kB Emax I bank can be loaded into a 1MB Emax II.
> >
> > Your description sounds like how the Sequential Prophet 2000 stores  
> > 12 bit data in memory. The Emax only has 512kB of sample memory but  
> > can store 18.8 seconds at the 27.7k sampling rate (18.8 x 27.7k =  
> > 512k). The Emax floppy disk format also only allows for storage of  
> > 512kB of sample data. For the method you describe to be correct the  
> > Emax would need to have 768kB of sample memory to provide this  
> > sampling time and it would be unable to store this on a single  
> > floppy disk!
> >
> > My understanding is that the Emax digitally compresses each 12 bit  
> > linear sample word from the ADC to an 8 bit compressed sample word  
> > using a non-linear algorithm (similar to A-law/u-Law companding).  
> > The sample data is stored in memory and saved to disk as 8 bit data  
> > but the Emax converts each sample word back to linear 12 bit on the  
> > fly for output to the DACs and for sample dumping etc. I believe the  
> > Emulator II works in much the same way except its data companding  
> > occurs in the ADC/DAC chips.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ***************************************
> - This communication is confidential to the parties it is intended to  
> serve -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

There may be some issues as you get close to filling the entire memory on an 1MB Emax II as it probably needs buffer space to do the uncompression. Do you know how much sample memory was remaining in the banks that would not load? All my Emax II samplers have more than 1MB so I never encountered this problem.

--- In emax@yahoogroups.com, Elk Latham <elk_latham@...> wrote:

>
> Loading Emax banks on a Emax II is not necessarily that black and white. I know I have a hand full of banks that I did on an Emax that will not load on a 1 MB Emax II because it runs out of ram when uncompressing the bank. 
> These are banks that I created on an emax where I ran out of ram.
>  
> Elk
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: tristanupton <tu@...>
> To: emax@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 8:03:23 AM
> Subject: [emax] Re: Only 1MG of RAM...!
> 
>   
> Well, actually you do get the equivalent of 1MB of 16 bit samples in the Emax I. A 1MB (16 bit) Emax II bank can be saved on a single floppy as a 512kB (8 bit) Emax I bank and loaded into an Emax I. Likewise, a 512kB Emax I bank can be loaded into a 1MB Emax II.
> 
> Your description sounds like how the Sequential Prophet 2000 stores 12 bit data in memory. The Emax only has 512kB of sample memory but can store 18.8 seconds at the 27.7k sampling rate (18.8 x 27.7k = 512k). The Emax floppy disk format also only allows for storage of 512kB of sample data. For the method you describe to be correct the Emax would need to have 768kB of sample memory to provide this sampling time and it would be unable to store this on a single floppy disk! 
> 
> My understanding is that the Emax digitally compresses each 12 bit linear sample word from the ADC to an 8 bit compressed sample word using a non-linear algorithm (similar to A-law/u-Law companding). The sample data is stored in memory and saved to disk as 8 bit data but the Emax converts each sample word back to linear 12 bit on the fly for output to the DACs and for sample dumping etc. I believe the Emulator II works in much the same way except its data companding occurs in the ADC/DAC chips.
> 
> --- In emax@yahoogroups. com, "jammie" <jammie.emma@ ...> wrote:
> >
> > wrong it records its samples in 12bit and still puts it in 12bit data in 8bits memory be it compressed but you dont get 1mb equivalant 16bit samples
> > 
> > the memory works in the same way as scsi1 its 8 bits but the the next 4bit data is put in the next available 8bit location using compression but its still 12bits when its read back out of memory it reads the first 8bit location then the second 8bit location but only reading the first 4 bits data 
> > 
> > the compression program and the gal processor splits the memory up into 1 and a half 8bit codes locations in a memory table
> > 
> > thats how it does it the scsi works the same way the 12bit samples are recorded and sent to the scsi drive but are actualy saved in 16bits that is the same for all 12bit samplers the last 4bits are just zero,s filling up the 16bit data which is sent to the scsi 1 drive as 2 8bit data streams
> > 
> > this is what would happen to the emaxs memory if it was not for the compression program using a allocating table to distribute the data in 8bit and 4 bit segments to the 12bit dacs 
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: Julian 
> > To: emax@yahoogroups. com 
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 4:53 AM
> > Subject: Re: [emax] Re: Only 1MG of RAM...!
> > 
> > 
> > But that said, seeing that the emax stores its 12 bit PCM samples in a
> > single 8 bit byte, it can record as many samples as a 16 bit sampler
> > with 1MB of RAM. (just more lofi! :-)
> > 
> > <brooksmosher@ ...> wrote:
> > > or little two seat British sports cars...
> > > 
> > I wish I had 1 MG!
> > :-)
> > 
> > julian
> > 
> > -- 
> > http://bleepin. com
> > 
> > -- 
> > http://www.fastmail.fm - Or how I learned to stop worrying and
> > love email again
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
> > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.21/2252 - Release Date: 07/21/09 05:58:00
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

I'm not sure how much memory was left. I'll have to look into it.




________________________________

From: tristanupton <tu@...>
To: emax@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 9:05:23 AM
Subject: [emax] Re: Only 1MG of RAM...!

  
There may be some issues as you get close to filling the entire memory on an 1MB Emax II as it probably needs buffer space to do the uncompression. Do you know how much sample memory was remaining in the banks that would not load? All my Emax II samplers have more than 1MB so I never encountered this problem.

--- In emax@yahoogroups. com, Elk Latham <elk_latham@ ...> wrote:
>
> Loading Emax banks on a Emax II is not necessarily that black and white. I know I have a hand full of banks that I did on an Emax that will not load on a 1 MB Emax II because it runs out of ram when uncompressing the bank. 
> These are banks that I created on an emax where I ran out of ram.
>  
> Elk
> 
> 
> ____________ _________ _________ __
> From: tristanupton <tu@...>
> To: emax@yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 8:03:23 AM
> Subject: [emax] Re: Only 1MG of RAM...!
> 
>   
> Well, actually you do get the equivalent of 1MB of 16 bit samples in the Emax I. A 1MB (16 bit) Emax II bank can be saved on a single floppy as a 512kB (8 bit) Emax I bank and loaded into an Emax I. Likewise, a 512kB Emax I bank can be loaded into a 1MB Emax II.
> 
> Your description sounds like how the Sequential Prophet 2000 stores 12 bit data in memory. The Emax only has 512kB of sample memory but can store 18.8 seconds at the 27.7k sampling rate (18.8 x 27.7k = 512k). The Emax floppy disk format also only allows for storage of 512kB of sample data. For the method you describe to be correct the Emax would need to have 768kB of sample memory to provide this sampling time and it would be unable to store this on a single floppy disk! 
> 
> My understanding is that the Emax digitally compresses each 12 bit linear sample word from the ADC to an 8 bit compressed sample word using a non-linear algorithm (similar to A-law/u-Law companding). The sample data is stored in memory and saved to disk as 8 bit data but the Emax converts each sample word back to linear 12 bit on the fly for output to the DACs and for sample dumping etc. I believe the Emulator II works in much the same way except its data companding occurs in the ADC/DAC chips.
> 
> --- In emax@yahoogroups. com, "jammie" <jammie.emma@ ...> wrote:
> >
> > wrong it records its samples in 12bit and still puts it in 12bit data in 8bits memory be it compressed but you dont get 1mb equivalant 16bit samples
> > 
> > the memory works in the same way as scsi1 its 8 bits but the the next 4bit data is put in the next available 8bit location using compression but its still 12bits when its read back out of memory it reads the first 8bit location then the second 8bit location but only reading the first 4 bits data 
> > 
> > the compression program and the gal processor splits the memory up into 1 and a half 8bit codes locations in a memory table
> > 
> > thats how it does it the scsi works the same way the 12bit samples are recorded and sent to the scsi drive but are actualy saved in 16bits that is the same for all 12bit samplers the last 4bits are just zero,s filling up the 16bit data which is sent to the scsi 1 drive as 2 8bit data streams
> > 
> > this is what would happen to the emaxs memory if it was not for the compression program using a allocating table to distribute the data in 8bit and 4 bit segments to the 12bit dacs 
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: Julian 
> > To: emax@yahoogroups. com 
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 4:53 AM
> > Subject: Re: [emax] Re: Only 1MG of RAM...!
> > 
> > 
> > But that said, seeing that the emax stores its 12 bit PCM samples in a
> > single 8 bit byte, it can record as many samples as a 16 bit sampler
> > with 1MB of RAM. (just more lofi! :-)
> > 
> > <brooksmosher@ ...> wrote:
> > > or little two seat British sports cars...
> > > 
> > I wish I had 1 MG!
> > :-)
> > 
> > julian
> > 
> > -- 
> > http://bleepin. com
> > 
> > -- 
> > http://www.fastmail.fm - Or how I learned to stop worrying and
> > love email again
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
> > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.21/2252 - Release Date: 07/21/09 05:58:00
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

-en the EIII and the EIV, too  
> I've heard?  That's very disturbing...

There is a difference in tone for sure, but I don't find it disturbing.  I love the sound of the EIV. The EIII sounds grand, for sure, but it's not nearly so versatile. 

One trick to making your samples sound warmer is to record to tape first and then sample from the tape.

especialy if you use tape saturation gives nice distortion and warmth

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: nonlocalmusic 
  To: emax@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 8:05 PM
  Subject: [emax] Re: Only 1MG of RAM...!


    -en the EIII and the EIV, too 
  > I've heard? That's very disturbing...

  There is a difference in tone for sure, but I don't find it disturbing. I love the sound of the EIV. The EIII sounds grand, for sure, but it's not nearly so versatile. 

  One trick to making your samples sound warmer is to record to tape first and then sample from the tape.



  


------------------------------------------------------------------------------



  No virus found in this incoming message.
  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
  Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.23/2254 - Release Date: 07/22/09 05:59:00


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

actually - we're all wrong, according to my emax service manual...
:-)

it talks about the compression algorithm, and this algorithm DEFINITELY
is not just companding (apparently that was E1?) I always thought it was
digital companding in the emax.... would love to find where I read that
now!

it is also definitely not packing 12 bit sample words that come from the
A/D and to the D/A into bytes or 16 bit words. apparently the e-chip
actually compresses and decompresses PCM data into something else. from
the wording of the manual, it sounds like some kind of sample-sample
difference function.

they claim that that with this compression, they can represent 16 bits
of data in approximately 8 bits of memory. And that although it's not
100% constant for every given sample, they claim they get a compression
ratio with the e-chip of around 2:1.


On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 15:03 +0000, "tristanupton" <tu@...>
wrote:
> Well, actually you do get the equivalent of 1MB of 16 bit samples in the
> Emax I. A 1MB (16 bit) Emax II bank can be saved on a single floppy as a
> 512kB (8 bit) Emax I bank and loaded into an Emax I. Likewise, a 512kB
> Emax I bank can be loaded into a 1MB Emax II.
> 
> Your description sounds like how the Sequential Prophet 2000 stores 12
> bit data in memory. The Emax only has 512kB of sample memory but can
> store 18.8 seconds at the 27.7k sampling rate (18.8 x 27.7k = 512k). The
> Emax floppy disk format also only allows for storage of 512kB of sample
> data. For the method you describe to be correct the Emax would need to
> have 768kB of sample memory to provide this sampling time and it would be
> unable to store this on a single floppy disk! 
> 
> My understanding is that the Emax digitally compresses each 12 bit linear
> sample word from the ADC to an 8 bit compressed sample word using a
> non-linear algorithm (similar to A-law/u-Law companding). The sample data
> is stored in memory and saved to disk as 8 bit data but the Emax converts
> each sample word back to linear 12 bit on the fly for output to the DACs
> and for sample dumping etc. I believe the Emulator II works in much the
> same way except its data companding occurs in the ADC/DAC chips.
> 
> 
> --- In emax@yahoogroups.com, "jammie" <jammie.emma@...> wrote:
> >
> > wrong it records its samples in 12bit and still puts it in 12bit data in 8bits memory be it compressed but you dont get 1mb equivalant 16bit samples
> > 
> > the memory works in the same way as  scsi1 its 8 bits but the the next 4bit  data is put in the next available 8bit location using compression but its still 12bits when its read back out of memory it reads the first 8bit location then the second 8bit location but only reading the first 4 bits data 
> > 
> > the compression program and the gal processor splits the memory up into 1 and a half 8bit codes locations in a memory table
> > 
> > thats how it does it the scsi works the same way the 12bit samples are recorded and sent to the scsi drive but are actualy saved in 16bits that is the same for all 12bit samplers the last 4bits are just zero,s filling up the 16bit data which is sent to the scsi 1 drive as 2 8bit data streams
> > 
> > this is what would happen to the emaxs memory if it was not for the compression program using a allocating table to distribute the data in 8bit and 4 bit segments to the 12bit dacs 
> >   ----- Original Message ----- 
> >   From: Julian 
> >   To: emax@yahoogroups.com 
> >   Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 4:53 AM
> >   Subject: Re: [emax] Re: Only 1MG of RAM...!
> > 
> > 
> >     But that said, seeing that the emax stores its 12 bit PCM samples in a
> >   single 8 bit byte, it can record as many samples as a 16 bit sampler
> >   with 1MB of RAM. (just more lofi! :-)
> > 
> >   <brooksmosher@...> wrote:
> >   > or little two seat British sports cars...
> >   > 
> >   I wish I had 1 MG!
> >   :-)
> > 
> >   julian
> > 
> >   -- 
> >   http://bleepin.com
> > 
> >   -- 
> >   http://www.fastmail.fm - Or how I learned to stop worrying and
> >   love email again
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >   
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >   No virus found in this incoming message.
> >   Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
> >   Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.21/2252 - Release Date: 07/21/09 05:58:00
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Emax and Emax II User's Group Website
> 
> http://www.silveriafamily.comYahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
-- 
http://bleepin.com

-- 
http://www.fastmail.fm - Email service worth paying for. Try it for free

hmmm.... but then again.. if the compressed format is NOT PCM.. then how
does EMXP work with writing wave files to disk? 

unless data format on disk is different to data format in RAM......

but then a disk only uses 512k of space, too.
:-)


interesting can of worms we've opened here.


On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 13:36 +1000, "Julian" <jujulilianan@...>
wrote:
> actually - we're all wrong, according to my emax service manual...
> :-)
> 
> it talks about the compression algorithm, and this algorithm DEFINITELY
> is not just companding (apparently that was E1?) I always thought it was
> digital companding in the emax.... would love to find where I read that
> now!
> 
> it is also definitely not packing 12 bit sample words that come from the
> A/D and to the D/A into bytes or 16 bit words. apparently the e-chip
> actually compresses and decompresses PCM data into something else. from
> the wording of the manual, it sounds like some kind of sample-sample
> difference function.
> 
> they claim that that with this compression, they can represent 16 bits
> of data in approximately 8 bits of memory. And that although it's not
> 100% constant for every given sample, they claim they get a compression
> ratio with the e-chip of around 2:1.
> 
> 
-- 
http://bleepin.com

-- 
http://www.fastmail.fm - A fast, anti-spam email service.

Julian,

You are right in your description about how compression works in the Emax.
And EMXP emulates this compression/decompression with a similar (but not identical) algorithm as the one used in the Emax.
So EMXP doesn't write PCM to the disks, it writes the actual compressed 8 bit sound data.
This algorithm is sometimes called delta sigma but to me these two words sound more like a student society :-)

Anyway, it's a proprietary algorithm which took me quite some time to discover. And I think it's even slightly different from the one used in the Emulator II (but the principle is certainly the same). Well at least I had to change it a little bit when adding Emulator II support to EMXP.
The fact that there were recently some discussions in this group about distortion in a bass drum WAV which was converted by EMXP to the compressed emax format shows that it's not the most straight forward algorithm... (I will finetune the code to make it even more ressemble the orginal Emax compression logic) 

///E-Synthesist 

--- In emax@yahoogroups.com, "Julian" <jujulilianan@...> wrote:

>
> hmmm.... but then again.. if the compressed format is NOT PCM.. then how
> does EMXP work with writing wave files to disk? 
> 
> unless data format on disk is different to data format in RAM......
> 
> but then a disk only uses 512k of space, too.
> :-)
> 
> 
> interesting can of worms we've opened here.
> 
> 
> On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 13:36 +1000, "Julian" <jujulilianan@...>
> wrote:
> > actually - we're all wrong, according to my emax service manual...
> > :-)
> > 
> > it talks about the compression algorithm, and this algorithm DEFINITELY
> > is not just companding (apparently that was E1?) I always thought it was
> > digital companding in the emax.... would love to find where I read that
> > now!
> > 
> > it is also definitely not packing 12 bit sample words that come from the
> > A/D and to the D/A into bytes or 16 bit words. apparently the e-chip
> > actually compresses and decompresses PCM data into something else. from
> > the wording of the manual, it sounds like some kind of sample-sample
> > difference function.
> > 
> > they claim that that with this compression, they can represent 16 bits
> > of data in approximately 8 bits of memory. And that although it's not
> > 100% constant for every given sample, they claim they get a compression
> > ratio with the e-chip of around 2:1.
> > 
> > 
> -- 
> http://bleepin.com
> 
> -- 
> http://www.fastmail.fm - A fast, anti-spam email service.
>