Emax

I am only saying that it might be that you won't get a valid data file  
out of it due to it being in the board as opposed to being in the IC  
holder on the EEPROM burner.
You might get erroneous data.
I would think you would only damage it if you accidentally shorted the  
pins when using the clip.
Or zapped it, plain and simple.
This can be avoided by using static safe equipment during removal and  
handling.

This would only work if you already had the upgrade prior, as I agree  
with the statements regarding the PALs.
If the PALs come on the memory upgrade board, then it is a non issue-  
however if you want to add memory and don't have the board....

So two scenarios- look at the PAL IP#s to see if the same PALs are  
used on all the upgrade boards (2,4,8). If the same PAL, then they  
aren't locking the memory size, beyond telling the system to address  
the expansion board.

If different PALs in every model, we would need PAL binaries, and the  
9306 versions from each type....

Maybe Rob at Emulator Archive could sweet talk the guys at E-Mu to get  
those PAL binariess too.
If so, then someone could send me the files and I would see if my  
resources could (once again) help me to convert the original files to  
make new chips.
The Emax 1 SCSI PAL binaries were in a non-standard format...only the  
original programmer module could be used with them, and Emu didn't  
divulge what the programmer was.....hence the necessary conversion.

What PAL IC are they? are they the same PAL16R4? If so, I got 140 NOS  
of them.
But without an Emax 2, I couldn't test / verify them.

Just my thoughts,
Ted

On Nov 8, 2009, at 1:57 PM, esynthesist wrote:

It's a relief to hear it's not a stupid idea after all :-)

So I googled on "eeprom clip" and yes indeed, there seems to be very  
handy tools out there (and not that expensive).

What do you mean by "corrupted data in circuit" ?
I mean: if you are just READING out a "good" 9306 on a fully expanded  
working Emax-II with a clip, could you still destroy this 9306 ??
If so, I understand the concern.
If not, then perhaps you can still end up with corrupt readings, but  
by repeating that a few times one must be able to have the 100 pct  
correct data, right ?

If the concern is related to WRITING the 9306, I think this is less  
critical. In the sense that if the original 9306 can not be written  
with a clip, it can still be replaced by a new one - preferably to be  
put into a socket on the Emax-II instead of soldering it again.
Or is the biggest concern here that these 9306 eeproms (or equivalent)  
are really hard to find on the market now ?

I guess the biggest risk/concern in this experiment would be to  
destroy a perfectly working 9306 containing the data we are all  
looking for. I can understand that there would not be that many Emax- 
II owners that want to take the risk to loose their eeprom settings  
(like Laurent experienced when cleaning his Emax-II...)

The contents of the different flavours of the Emax-II eeproms, that's  
what we are missing today.
It would be really nice if we could build up a library of BIN files  
for each of the most popular "extended memory" versions:
- Emax-II MONO 2MB
- Emax-II STEREO 2MB
- Emax-II STEREO 4MB
- Emax-II STEREO 8MB
I have stereo 4 and 8 MB versions, and I know someone who has a 2MB  
one. I don't have the equipment (yet ?) though. But I could buy these  
devices next week...

Are there other risks to be mitigated ?

///E-Synthesist

--- In emax@yahoogroups.com, Ted Summers <djtbs1@...> wrote:
 >
 > There are clips manufactured for this purpose, actually. My concern
 > would be whether you would get corrupted data in circuit. and if you
 > had a bad one, I would expect you would still need to replace the IC.
 >
 > Regards.
 > Ted
 >
 > On Nov 8, 2009, at 11:22 AM, esynthesist wrote:
 >
 > Maybe it's the most stupid idea launched on this board (mea culpa)  
but
 > I was wondering whether an eeprom programmer can be connected to the
 > 9306 on the Emax-II itself by wire instead of desoldering the IC.
 >
 > If that's possible, these wires could be connected (soldered
 > temporarily) to the Emax-II board (bottom side), or - OK, maybe even
 > more stupid - these wires could be put in the pin holders of an empty
 > 8 pin socket, and this socket could be temporarily put (taped) on top
 > of/around the 9306 IC in such way that it makes contact with the
 > 9306's pins.
 >
 > Is this nonsense or can this be done ?
 > (I'm not a hardware guy, but maybe I want to become one :-)
 >
 > Note: I think we can indeed assume that this 9306 is the only chip
 > containing the crucial data for memory upgrades, stereo upgrades and
 > calibrations.
 > Here is an extract from the diagnostics guide:
 > (...)"Adjust Features -
 > This function allows a technician in the field to restore software
 > dependent features (such as memory size and stereo sampling) in
 > cases where the EEPROM has been erased or damaged. If you
 > have an Emax II that has forgotten what options it has, call the
 > factory for instructions."(...)
 > And here's an extract from the service manual:
 > (...)"There is also a EEPROM which contains important non-volatile
 > information such as calibrations. The EEPROM is interfaced to the  
main
 > CPU using a bizzare combination of the floppy side select, the MIDI
 > off signal, a chip enable, and the MIDI interrupt lines."(...)
 >
 > ///E-Synthesist
 >
 > --- In emax@yahoogroups.com, Ted Summers <djtbs1@> wrote:
 > >
 > > Well, I don't have an Emax 2, but I believe i can safely remove and
 > re-
 > > install the 9306
 > > This chip is actually a National Semiconductor 93C06. its current 8
 > > pin direct replacement is the 93C46 which is 30 cents at mouser.
 > >
 > > My EEPROM programmer that makes the PALs for the SCSI upgrade has  
the
 > > 93C06 and the 93C46 in the device list.
 > >
 > > I have a static safe solder station and a PACE for safe successful
 > > removal of the chip.
 > > If someone with Emax 2 models lives in the Washington / Oregon  
area I
 > > would be willing to put my skills to use and pull the IC, place the
 > > socket and read the IC.
 > > In preparation, we could get some 93C46 and verify that they  
actually
 > > work in replacement for the 93C06, though since they are in the
 > Cross-
 > > reference I don't see any reason why they wouldn't.
 > >
 > > That being said, anytime you touch a static sensitive device with a
 > > soldering iron there is a *chance* of damage.
 > > But as far as minimizing risk, I am probably one of the people who
 > has
 > > all the equipment to have the most successful outcome.
 > >
 > > I just don't have an Emax 2, or I would just test it out
 > > myself.....Emax 2 is on my wish list when I have money. Even a dead
 > > one- I might be able to bring back to life....
 > >
 > > Regards,
 > > Ted
 > >
 > > On Nov 8, 2009, at 9:24 AM, Laurent/LIFELIKE wrote:
 > >
 > > Sounds very dangerous to perform that desoldering.
 > > Maybe we should simply try to enter the Diagnostics submenu 'adjust
 > > features' that contains a kind of challenge code response algorythm
 > > that could be easily decoded. Did somebody tried to check that
 > option?
 > > I wrote down the numbers but cant find any sense, they seem to be
 > > generared randomly, or am i wrong?
 > > On the other hands, there was this online shop "soundlogic usa" in
 > > California that was selling Emax upgrade boards and that floppy  
back
 > > in the days. The website is still there, but has been rebuilt, you
 > can
 > > still find upgrades for EIII and other brands.
 > > On the news it says that Mike, soundlogic's owner, studios burned
 > with
 > > the big fire in California a couple of years ago, maybe the  
floppies
 > > died in there, sounds like the Emax malediction :-))
 > > Ok not so funny.
 > >
 > > Laurent
 > >
 > > Sent from an iPhone
 > >
 > > Le 8 nov. 2009 � 16:08, "Everett" <evy_newt@> a �crit :
 > >
 > > > I'm curious, but maybe not THAT curious. I can't find those chips
 > > > anywhere either. It's only an 8 pin DIP though, so I have  
plenty of
 > > > those sockets lying around from various projects. It's only a  
16 x
 > > > 16 bit array... seems like it wouldn't be able to hold too much
 > > > information. I guess they are just placeholders for options
 > > > installed? I'll check my programmer for support. I just have  
one of
 > > > those universal SIVAVA boards.
 > > >
 > > > --- In emax@yahoogroups.com, "tristanupton" <tu@> wrote:
 > > > >
 > > > > You need the remove 9306 EEPROM, its a small 8 pin chip  
soldered
 > > > to the main board and designated IC24. You will need to desolder
 > > > this chip to read in your burner and then you will need to  
resolder
 > > > it back onto the main board. I suggest soldering an 8 pin DIP
 > socket
 > > > in its place and then just inserting the EEPROM into the socket
 > > > rather than resoldering it direct to the board.
 > > > >
 > > > > If you are not 100% sure what you are doing and confident in  
your
 > > > soldering skills then I suggest not doing this. You run the  
risk of
 > > > damaging the EEPROM and then your Emax II may no longer recognise
 > > > the full memory or the stereo sampling. It is also possible you
 > > > could damage something else on the Emax main board during removal
 > or
 > > > reinsertion of the chip. Also check whether your EPROM burner
 > > > actually supports 9306 series EEPROMs, some EPROM burners may  
not.
 > > > >
 > > > > /Tristan
 > > > >
 > > > > --- In emax@yahoogroups.com, "Everett" <evy_newt@> wrote:
 > > > > >
 > > > > > I can try to do this, but I'm a little nervous about  
killing my
 > > > box. If somebody can do a little more leg work before I crack  
into
 > > > the hardware I would feel a little better. I have an EPROM burner
 > so
 > > > I would be able to produce a bin file for an 8MB machine. Let me
 > > > know which one is needed and if there is a risk of this disabling
 > my
 > > > machine.
 > > > > >
 > > > > > Thanks...
 > > > > > Everett
 > > > > >
 > > > > > --- In emax@yahoogroups.com, "dwv1957" <dwv1957@> wrote:
 > > > > > >
 > > > > > > That makes more sense,I have never heard of the 27C64 being
 > > > reprogrammed in circuit. If anyone has a 6 or 8 meg machine, and
 > can
 > > > read the eeprom, send me the .bin file, I have a spare 9306 I can
 > > > reprogram, to test in my machine. If it works, I'll see if I can
 > get
 > > > a bunch of eeproms, and program them for 4/6/8 meg machines.
 > > > > > >
 > > > > > > --- In emax@yahoogroups.com, "esynthesist" <esynthesist@>
 > > wrote:
 > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > I thought these configurations parameters (memory size,
 > > > calibration settings, ...) are written to the 9306 eeprom instead
 > of
 > > > the two normal eproms. So I guess the eeproms must be  
reprogrammed,
 > > > not the eproms. Am I wrong ?
 > > > > > > >
 > > > > > > > ///E-Synthesist
 > > > > > >
 > > > > >
 > > > >
 > > >
 > > >
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 > >
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