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Elektron Musical Instruments

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Re: [elektron] Sid Trackers

Re: [elektron] Sid Trackers

2002-07-01 by Steven Henry

a tracker is a type of sequencer which is closley linked to video game music 
production. trackers are usually platform specific. eg. a specialy built 
sequencer for that particular sound chip. a sid tracker just means a tracker 
built for use with the sid chip (usually software on a commodore64)this is 
how most classic c64 game tunes were done.

the most noticable difference between a tracker and a sequencer (eg cubase) 
is that the timeline moves downwards(horizontal) instead of (vertical).. 
download goat tracker to see.

(http://www.student.oulu.fi/~loorni/covert/)

most of the oldskool c64 trackers have three sequencers.

1. one for building instruments (usually runs at high tempos to create 
wavetables), 2. a pattern (main) editor for arranging your sounds into 
sections and 3. a song editor for aranging the songs.

tracking has seen a real revival in the past while, I guess like me these 
people are just trying to recreate the music of thier youth. saying that - 
mod trackers are still used for composing alot of modern day computer game 
music.

to listen to streaming radio of mods and sids etc. try:-

http://www.scenemusic.net

/Steven







>From: Jeff Monroe <monroeja@...>
>Reply-To: elektron-users@yahoogroups.com
>To: elektron-users@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [elektron] Sid Trackers
>Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2002 18:13:31 -0400
>
>Sorry, caught the ass-end of these thread. What exactly is a sid
>tracker? If you could
>point me to or give more info I'd like to read up on it....
>
>-= jeff




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Re: [elektron] Sid Trackers

2002-07-02 by Chris Stammen

That would be a good idea..  BUT.. if someone's building a tracker, then PLEASE let it be in DOS style and not some shitty windows style. Like noisetracker : It has a dos (fullscreen) interface and uses direct-x to access MIDI ports and audio adapters. I like the soundquality of MAD tracker but the interface made me sick!  FT2's interface still rulez.. ;-/
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jeff Monroe 
  To: elektron-users@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 12:13 AM
  Subject: [elektron] Sid Trackers


  Sorry, caught the ass-end of these thread. What exactly is a sid 
  tracker? If you could
  point me to or give more info I'd like to read up on it....

  -= jeff

  phonophobie wrote:

  >hi,
  >i just read your messages. i just want to say that i like people who 
  >still uses tracker for their music. trackers are still an unbeatable 
  >tool to create these special kind of music. the worse thing about it 
  >is - you always need a external computer to create. sidtables are 
  >nice but these hardcore effects we all like mostly can´t be done with 
  >it. and only using hardsid is a little bit frustrating. because it is 
  >just like a external player.. like playing a cd in a cd-player:/ it 
  >would be nice when there would be something between. maybee a 
  >sidstation editor with advanced programming.. but i guess no one -
  >even electron- will do it. anyway track on ;)
  >-phono
  >
  >
  >--- In elektron-users@y..., "Chris Stammen" <cosmiq@h...> wrote:
  >  
  >
  >>Thanks for the usefull information! :)  And indeed.. I better use 
  >>    
  >>
  >goat-tracker to build rithms and afterwards record it while playing 
  >the sid through the sidstation: It's not only easier to compose with 
  >a tracker (IMO), but it also gives the oppertunity to compose the SID 
  >while I don't even have the sidstation (yet). Good tip! :)
  >  
  >
  >>The way of composing with lot's of sysex data to 'program' the 
  >>    
  >>
  >oscillator volumes doesn't sound like a fun way to compose. 
  >Especially not in a 'horizontal way of composing' (cakewalk / cubase 
  >style - blerghh)  Anyway: I just *love* the oldskool tracker-
  >arpeggiators (effect 0xx in protracker).. It seems that they can be 
  >built with the Sidstation. Therefor I definately gonna buy one!  Do 
  >you know how these arps are made?  I tried to build these on my K-
  >Station and Virus but both of them didn't gave a good result. 
  >(Just 'UP'-arpeggiated a pulse with some PWM and a bit delay;;  the 
  >result was a chaos of sounds, far too clear to compare with the 
  >original module -arps)
  >  
  >
  >>Thanks again for the story down here ;-) And Steven, could you warn 
  >>    
  >>
  >me when you have made a sidstation- rithm!?  I'm curious of what's 
  >possible with that toy!
  >  
  >
  >>greetz,
  >>-Chris
  >>
  >>
  >>  ----- Original Message ----- 
  >>  From: Steven Henry 
  >>  To: elektron-users@y... 
  >>  Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 3:12 PM
  >>  Subject: Re: [elektron] SidStation Drumpatches
  >>
  >>
  >>  >Is it possible to build oldskool C64 rithms with a sidstation? 
  >>    
  >>
  >And then, 
  >  
  >
  >>  >how are the patches arranged? (Can I assign C#2 to bassdrum, D#2 
  >>    
  >>
  >to snare, 
  >  
  >
  >>  >E#2 to hihat, etc and build a drumbank this way?)
  >>
  >>  Although the sidstation can achieve the oldskool drum sounds, its 
  >>    
  >>
  >usually 
  >  
  >
  >>  only possible to trigger them as you would if you had built the 
  >>    
  >>
  >sound on any 
  >  
  >
  >>  synth (one per patch).
  >>
  >>  You build single drum sounds in the table editor (all 3 
  >>    
  >>
  >oscilators have a 
  >  
  >
  >>  wavetable.) If you've never used a sid tracker before, the 
  >>    
  >>
  >wavetable looks 
  >  
  >
  >>  like a step sequencer with assignable waveform, pitch etc. for 
  >>    
  >>
  >each step. If 
  >  
  >
  >>  you set the playback rate fast enough this sequence can sound 
  >>    
  >>
  >like a snare 
  >  
  >
  >>  or a bassdrum. Its also possible to build whole beats this way 
  >>    
  >>
  >(but this is 
  >  
  >
  >>  very tricky compared to a c64 tracker.)
  >>
  >>  Unfortuneatly you can't assign each oscilator to a different 
  >>    
  >>
  >note / midi 
  >  
  >
  >>  channel. So you can only really play one sequence/drum sound at a 
  >>    
  >>
  >time. The 
  >  
  >
  >>  operating system on the sid is set out like a synth.. so even if 
  >>    
  >>
  >it had 
  >  
  >
  >>  assignable midi channels - normal drum machine funtions eg. 
  >>    
  >>
  >copying and 
  >  
  >
  >>  pasting single drum sounds wouldn't be possible without an 
  >>    
  >>
  >external editor. 
  >  
  >
  >>  Instead, All 3 oscilators are grouped as a patch, which seems 
  >>    
  >>
  >like a bit of 
  >  
  >
  >>  a waste. So while the sid is great for lead sounds and single 
  >>    
  >>
  >drum hits the 
  >  
  >
  >>  kind of opperation which you talk of would not be available 
  >>    
  >>
  >without a major 
  >  
  >
  >>  O.S. re-build.
  >>
  >>  There are a few ways to get around this. One is to set your 
  >>    
  >>
  >wavetables to 
  >  
  >
  >>  different drum sounds, trigger when you want a hit, mute the 
  >>    
  >>
  >oscilators via 
  >  
  >
  >>  midi and use a program (ive used max/msp for this) to send 
  >>    
  >>
  >controllers to 
  >  
  >
  >>  unmute the oscilators as they are needed. (extremly back 
  >>    
  >>
  >asswards.)
  >  
  >
  >>  Of course, there are also a few alternatives to building the 
  >>    
  >>
  >beats on the 
  >  
  >
  >>  sid. I usually use goat tracker (pc bassed sid tracker) save the 
  >>    
  >>
  >file as a 
  >  
  >
  >>  sid.. and play back using ASID mode. (a funtion on the sidstation 
  >>    
  >>
  >which 
  >  
  >
  >>  allows you to play sid tunes via sysex from your computer on the 
  >>    
  >>
  >sid.) Iv'e 
  >  
  >
  >>  also attempted to build an ASID drum machine in Max. with quite 
  >>    
  >>
  >nice 
  >  
  >
  >>  results. but this is unfinnished due to 8 bit sysex grief .
  >>
  >>  >Is the noise coming out of the C64 chip really that terrible?
  >>
  >>  No not at all.. the noise is one of the best bits. It isnt really 
  >>    
  >>
  >noise. 
  >  
  >
  >>  what happens is that the oscilators don't stop when you stop 
  >>    
  >>
  >playing, so the 
  >  
  >
  >>  backround noise is just a tuneful variation on the last note you 
  >>    
  >>
  >played. 
  >  
  >
  >>  sometimes it even blurts out a big groan.
  >>
  >>  It really is a fantastic instrument  with morr character than any 
  >>    
  >>
  >other 
  >  
  >
  >>  synth ive ever used. though a drum macine it aint'.
  >>
  >>  >Where can I find MP3's only using SidStation ( I already 
  >>    
  >>
  >downloaded all the 
  >  
  >
  >>  >mP3s on sidstation.com)
  >>
  >>  Hmmn, I know alot of the guys at ww.micromusic.net use 
  >>    
  >>
  >Sidstations. but most 
  >  
  >
  >>  sid fundamentalists use trackers.
  >>
  >>  /Steven
  >>
  >>  _________________________________________________________________
  >>  Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: 
  >>    
  >>
  >http://messenger.msn.com
  >  
  >
  >>        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
  >>              ADVERTISEMENT
  >>             
  >>       
  >>
  >>  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of 
  >>    
  >>
  >Service. 
  >  
  >
  >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  >>    
  >>
  >
  >
  > 
  >
  >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >  
  >

  -- 
  --= jeff.monroe
  http://www.lemurgene.com




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Re: [elektron] Sid Trackers

2002-07-02 by Chris Stammen

Ehm.. by the way..  I ment that noisetracker UI = good.. and madtracker UI = no good.. (i have to work on my english.. ;-)
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Chris Stammen 
  To: elektron-users@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 10:08 AM
  Subject: Re: [elektron] Sid Trackers


  That would be a good idea..  BUT.. if someone's building a tracker, then PLEASE let it be in DOS style and not some shitty windows style. Like noisetracker : It has a dos (fullscreen) interface and uses direct-x to access MIDI ports and audio adapters. I like the soundquality of MAD tracker but the interface made me sick!  FT2's interface still rulez.. ;-/


    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Jeff Monroe 
    To: elektron-users@yahoogroups.com 
    Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 12:13 AM
    Subject: [elektron] Sid Trackers


    Sorry, caught the ass-end of these thread. What exactly is a sid 
    tracker? If you could
    point me to or give more info I'd like to read up on it....

    -= jeff

    phonophobie wrote:

    >hi,
    >i just read your messages. i just want to say that i like people who 
    >still uses tracker for their music. trackers are still an unbeatable 
    >tool to create these special kind of music. the worse thing about it 
    >is - you always need a external computer to create. sidtables are 
    >nice but these hardcore effects we all like mostly can´t be done with 
    >it. and only using hardsid is a little bit frustrating. because it is 
    >just like a external player.. like playing a cd in a cd-player:/ it 
    >would be nice when there would be something between. maybee a 
    >sidstation editor with advanced programming.. but i guess no one -
    >even electron- will do it. anyway track on ;)
    >-phono
    >
    >
    >--- In elektron-users@y..., "Chris Stammen" <cosmiq@h...> wrote:
    >  
    >
    >>Thanks for the usefull information! :)  And indeed.. I better use 
    >>    
    >>
    >goat-tracker to build rithms and afterwards record it while playing 
    >the sid through the sidstation: It's not only easier to compose with 
    >a tracker (IMO), but it also gives the oppertunity to compose the SID 
    >while I don't even have the sidstation (yet). Good tip! :)
    >  
    >
    >>The way of composing with lot's of sysex data to 'program' the 
    >>    
    >>
    >oscillator volumes doesn't sound like a fun way to compose. 
    >Especially not in a 'horizontal way of composing' (cakewalk / cubase 
    >style - blerghh)  Anyway: I just *love* the oldskool tracker-
    >arpeggiators (effect 0xx in protracker).. It seems that they can be 
    >built with the Sidstation. Therefor I definately gonna buy one!  Do 
    >you know how these arps are made?  I tried to build these on my K-
    >Station and Virus but both of them didn't gave a good result. 
    >(Just 'UP'-arpeggiated a pulse with some PWM and a bit delay;;  the 
    >result was a chaos of sounds, far too clear to compare with the 
    >original module -arps)
    >  
    >
    >>Thanks again for the story down here ;-) And Steven, could you warn 
    >>    
    >>
    >me when you have made a sidstation- rithm!?  I'm curious of what's 
    >possible with that toy!
    >  
    >
    >>greetz,
    >>-Chris
    >>
    >>
    >>  ----- Original Message ----- 
    >>  From: Steven Henry 
    >>  To: elektron-users@y... 
    >>  Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 3:12 PM
    >>  Subject: Re: [elektron] SidStation Drumpatches
    >>
    >>
    >>  >Is it possible to build oldskool C64 rithms with a sidstation? 
    >>    
    >>
    >And then, 
    >  
    >
    >>  >how are the patches arranged? (Can I assign C#2 to bassdrum, D#2 
    >>    
    >>
    >to snare, 
    >  
    >
    >>  >E#2 to hihat, etc and build a drumbank this way?)
    >>
    >>  Although the sidstation can achieve the oldskool drum sounds, its 
    >>    
    >>
    >usually 
    >  
    >
    >>  only possible to trigger them as you would if you had built the 
    >>    
    >>
    >sound on any 
    >  
    >
    >>  synth (one per patch).
    >>
    >>  You build single drum sounds in the table editor (all 3 
    >>    
    >>
    >oscilators have a 
    >  
    >
    >>  wavetable.) If you've never used a sid tracker before, the 
    >>    
    >>
    >wavetable looks 
    >  
    >
    >>  like a step sequencer with assignable waveform, pitch etc. for 
    >>    
    >>
    >each step. If 
    >  
    >
    >>  you set the playback rate fast enough this sequence can sound 
    >>    
    >>
    >like a snare 
    >  
    >
    >>  or a bassdrum. Its also possible to build whole beats this way 
    >>    
    >>
    >(but this is 
    >  
    >
    >>  very tricky compared to a c64 tracker.)
    >>
    >>  Unfortuneatly you can't assign each oscilator to a different 
    >>    
    >>
    >note / midi 
    >  
    >
    >>  channel. So you can only really play one sequence/drum sound at a 
    >>    
    >>
    >time. The 
    >  
    >
    >>  operating system on the sid is set out like a synth.. so even if 
    >>    
    >>
    >it had 
    >  
    >
    >>  assignable midi channels - normal drum machine funtions eg. 
    >>    
    >>
    >copying and 
    >  
    >
    >>  pasting single drum sounds wouldn't be possible without an 
    >>    
    >>
    >external editor. 
    >  
    >
    >>  Instead, All 3 oscilators are grouped as a patch, which seems 
    >>    
    >>
    >like a bit of 
    >  
    >
    >>  a waste. So while the sid is great for lead sounds and single 
    >>    
    >>
    >drum hits the 
    >  
    >
    >>  kind of opperation which you talk of would not be available 
    >>    
    >>
    >without a major 
    >  
    >
    >>  O.S. re-build.
    >>
    >>  There are a few ways to get around this. One is to set your 
    >>    
    >>
    >wavetables to 
    >  
    >
    >>  different drum sounds, trigger when you want a hit, mute the 
    >>    
    >>
    >oscilators via 
    >  
    >
    >>  midi and use a program (ive used max/msp for this) to send 
    >>    
    >>
    >controllers to 
    >  
    >
    >>  unmute the oscilators as they are needed. (extremly back 
    >>    
    >>
    >asswards.)
    >  
    >
    >>  Of course, there are also a few alternatives to building the 
    >>    
    >>
    >beats on the 
    >  
    >
    >>  sid. I usually use goat tracker (pc bassed sid tracker) save the 
    >>    
    >>
    >file as a 
    >  
    >
    >>  sid.. and play back using ASID mode. (a funtion on the sidstation 
    >>    
    >>
    >which 
    >  
    >
    >>  allows you to play sid tunes via sysex from your computer on the 
    >>    
    >>
    >sid.) Iv'e 
    >  
    >
    >>  also attempted to build an ASID drum machine in Max. with quite 
    >>    
    >>
    >nice 
    >  
    >
    >>  results. but this is unfinnished due to 8 bit sysex grief .
    >>
    >>  >Is the noise coming out of the C64 chip really that terrible?
    >>
    >>  No not at all.. the noise is one of the best bits. It isnt really 
    >>    
    >>
    >noise. 
    >  
    >
    >>  what happens is that the oscilators don't stop when you stop 
    >>    
    >>
    >playing, so the 
    >  
    >
    >>  backround noise is just a tuneful variation on the last note you 
    >>    
    >>
    >played. 
    >  
    >
    >>  sometimes it even blurts out a big groan.
    >>
    >>  It really is a fantastic instrument  with morr character than any 
    >>    
    >>
    >other 
    >  
    >
    >>  synth ive ever used. though a drum macine it aint'.
    >>
    >>  >Where can I find MP3's only using SidStation ( I already 
    >>    
    >>
    >downloaded all the 
    >  
    >
    >>  >mP3s on sidstation.com)
    >>
    >>  Hmmn, I know alot of the guys at ww.micromusic.net use 
    >>    
    >>
    >Sidstations. but most 
    >  
    >
    >>  sid fundamentalists use trackers.
    >>
    >>  /Steven
    >>
    >>  _________________________________________________________________
    >>  Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: 
    >>    
    >>
    >http://messenger.msn.com
    >  
    >
    >>        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
    >>              ADVERTISEMENT
    >>             
    >>       
    >>
    >>  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of 
    >>    
    >>
    >Service. 
    >  
    >
    >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    >>    
    >>
    >
    >
    > 
    >
    >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >  
    >

    -- 
    --= jeff.monroe
    http://www.lemurgene.com




          Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
                ADVERTISEMENT
               
         

    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 


  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
              ADVERTISEMENT
             
       

  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [elektron] Sid Trackers

2002-07-02 by Steven Henry

The problem with building an  ASID tracker would be the sysex implementation 
of the sidstation. But i can imagine though that porting goattracker for use 
with the sidstation wouldn't be too much of a problem for a competant 
programmer if the sources for ASID and Goattracker were made available. of 
course why bother making a tracker for dos when you can use a commodore64.. 
having access to the individual oscilators via midi would be the bet 
solution. then you could use any midi tracker to get the sid sound. .

/steven

>From: "Chris Stammen" <cosmiq@...>
>Reply-To: elektron-users@yahoogroups.com
>To: <elektron-users@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [elektron] Sid Trackers
>Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 10:08:34 +0200
>
>That would be a good idea..  BUT.. if someone's building a tracker, then 
>PLEASE let it be in DOS style and not some shitty windows style. Like 
>noisetracker : It has a dos (fullscreen) interface and uses direct-x to 
>access MIDI ports and audio adapters. I like the soundquality of MAD 
>tracker but the interface made me sick!  FT2's interface still rulez.. ;-/
>





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Re: [elektron] Sid Trackers

2002-07-02 by phonophobie

i agree. 
i think the biggest problem is that there is no forum where people 
build up such things. all these programmers should work together and 
exchange their experience. so many things could become reality. but i 
guess there are not much competent people out there who realy cares 
about it. well, i am not a programmer - i just have wishes - so i can 
not realy help :/ 

--- In elektron-users@y..., "Steven Henry" <pierrefighterpilot@h...> 
wrote:
> The problem with building an  ASID tracker would be the sysex 
implementation 
> of the sidstation. But i can imagine though that porting 
goattracker for use 
> with the sidstation wouldn't be too much of a problem for a 
competant 
> programmer if the sources for ASID and Goattracker were made 
available. of 
> course why bother making a tracker for dos when you can use a 
commodore64.. 
> having access to the individual oscilators via midi would be the 
bet 
> solution. then you could use any midi tracker to get the sid 
sound. .
> 
> /steven
> 
> >From: "Chris Stammen" <cosmiq@h...>
> >Reply-To: elektron-users@y...
> >To: <elektron-users@y...>
> >Subject: Re: [elektron] Sid Trackers
> >Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 10:08:34 +0200
> >
> >That would be a good idea..  BUT.. if someone's building a 
tracker, then 
> >PLEASE let it be in DOS style and not some shitty windows style. 
Like 
> >noisetracker : It has a dos (fullscreen) interface and uses direct-
x to 
> >access MIDI ports and audio adapters. I like the soundquality of 
MAD 
> >tracker but the interface made me sick!  FT2's interface still 
rulez.. ;-/
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

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