Elektron Musical Instruments

>Is it possible to build oldskool C64 rithms with a sidstation? And then, 
>how are the patches arranged? (Can I assign C#2 to bassdrum, D#2 to snare, 
>E#2 to hihat, etc and build a drumbank this way?)

Although the sidstation can achieve the oldskool drum sounds, its usually 
only possible to trigger them as you would if you had built the sound on any 
synth (one per patch).

You build single drum sounds in the table editor (all 3 oscilators have a 
wavetable.) If you've never used a sid tracker before, the wavetable looks 
like a step sequencer with assignable waveform, pitch etc. for each step. If 
you set the playback rate fast enough this sequence can sound like a snare 
or a bassdrum. Its also possible to build whole beats this way (but this is 
very tricky compared to a c64 tracker.)

Unfortuneatly you can't assign each oscilator to a different note / midi 
channel. So you can only really play one sequence/drum sound at a time. The 
operating system on the sid is set out like a synth.. so even if it had 
assignable midi channels - normal drum machine funtions eg. copying and 
pasting single drum sounds wouldn't be possible without an external editor. 
Instead, All 3 oscilators are grouped as a patch, which seems like a bit of 
a waste. So while the sid is great for lead sounds and single drum hits the 
kind of opperation which you talk of would not be available without a major 
O.S. re-build.

There are a few ways to get around this. One is to set your wavetables to 
different drum sounds, trigger when you want a hit, mute the oscilators via 
midi and use a program (ive used max/msp for this) to send controllers to 
unmute the oscilators as they are needed. (extremly back asswards.)

Of course, there are also a few alternatives to building the beats on the 
sid. I usually use goat tracker (pc bassed sid tracker) save the file as a 
sid.. and play back using ASID mode. (a funtion on the sidstation which 
allows you to play sid tunes via sysex from your computer on the sid.) Iv'e 
also attempted to build an ASID drum machine in Max. with quite nice 
results. but this is unfinnished due to 8 bit sysex grief .

>Is the noise coming out of the C64 chip really that terrible?

No not at all.. the noise is one of the best bits. It isnt really noise. 
what happens is that the oscilators don't stop when you stop playing, so the 
backround noise is just a tuneful variation on the last note you played. 
sometimes it even blurts out a big groan.

It really is a fantastic instrument  with morr character than any other 
synth ive ever used. though a drum macine it aint'.

>Where can I find MP3's only using SidStation ( I already downloaded all the 
>mP3s on sidstation.com)

Hmmn, I know alot of the guys at ww.micromusic.net use Sidstations. but most 
sid fundamentalists use trackers.

/Steven

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Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

Thanks for the usefull information! :)  And indeed.. I better use goat-tracker to build rithms and afterwards record it while playing the sid through the sidstation: It's not only easier to compose with a tracker (IMO), but it also gives the oppertunity to compose the SID while I don't even have the sidstation (yet). Good tip! :)
The way of composing with lot's of sysex data to 'program' the oscillator volumes doesn't sound like a fun way to compose. Especially not in a 'horizontal way of composing' (cakewalk / cubase style - blerghh)  Anyway: I just *love* the oldskool tracker-arpeggiators (effect 0xx in protracker).. It seems that they can be built with the Sidstation. Therefor I definately gonna buy one!  Do you know how these arps are made?  I tried to build these on my K-Station and Virus but both of them didn't gave a good result. (Just 'UP'-arpeggiated a pulse with some PWM and a bit delay;;  the result was a chaos of sounds, far too clear to compare with the original module -arps)
Thanks again for the story down here ;-) And Steven, could you warn me when you have made a sidstation- rithm!?  I'm curious of what's possible with that toy!
greetz,
-Chris

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Steven Henry 
  To: elektron-users@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 3:12 PM
  Subject: Re: [elektron] SidStation Drumpatches


  >Is it possible to build oldskool C64 rithms with a sidstation? And then, 
  >how are the patches arranged? (Can I assign C#2 to bassdrum, D#2 to snare, 
  >E#2 to hihat, etc and build a drumbank this way?)

  Although the sidstation can achieve the oldskool drum sounds, its usually 
  only possible to trigger them as you would if you had built the sound on any 
  synth (one per patch).

  You build single drum sounds in the table editor (all 3 oscilators have a 
  wavetable.) If you've never used a sid tracker before, the wavetable looks 
  like a step sequencer with assignable waveform, pitch etc. for each step. If 
  you set the playback rate fast enough this sequence can sound like a snare 
  or a bassdrum. Its also possible to build whole beats this way (but this is 
  very tricky compared to a c64 tracker.)

  Unfortuneatly you can't assign each oscilator to a different note / midi 
  channel. So you can only really play one sequence/drum sound at a time. The 
  operating system on the sid is set out like a synth.. so even if it had 
  assignable midi channels - normal drum machine funtions eg. copying and 
  pasting single drum sounds wouldn't be possible without an external editor. 
  Instead, All 3 oscilators are grouped as a patch, which seems like a bit of 
  a waste. So while the sid is great for lead sounds and single drum hits the 
  kind of opperation which you talk of would not be available without a major 
  O.S. re-build.

  There are a few ways to get around this. One is to set your wavetables to 
  different drum sounds, trigger when you want a hit, mute the oscilators via 
  midi and use a program (ive used max/msp for this) to send controllers to 
  unmute the oscilators as they are needed. (extremly back asswards.)

  Of course, there are also a few alternatives to building the beats on the 
  sid. I usually use goat tracker (pc bassed sid tracker) save the file as a 
  sid.. and play back using ASID mode. (a funtion on the sidstation which 
  allows you to play sid tunes via sysex from your computer on the sid.) Iv'e 
  also attempted to build an ASID drum machine in Max. with quite nice 
  results. but this is unfinnished due to 8 bit sysex grief .

  >Is the noise coming out of the C64 chip really that terrible?

  No not at all.. the noise is one of the best bits. It isnt really noise. 
  what happens is that the oscilators don't stop when you stop playing, so the 
  backround noise is just a tuneful variation on the last note you played. 
  sometimes it even blurts out a big groan.

  It really is a fantastic instrument  with morr character than any other 
  synth ive ever used. though a drum macine it aint'.

  >Where can I find MP3's only using SidStation ( I already downloaded all the 
  >mP3s on sidstation.com)

  Hmmn, I know alot of the guys at ww.micromusic.net use Sidstations. but most 
  sid fundamentalists use trackers.

  /Steven

  _________________________________________________________________
  Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

hi,
i just read your messages. i just want to say that i like people who 
still uses tracker for their music. trackers are still an unbeatable 
tool to create these special kind of music. the worse thing about it 
is - you always need a external computer to create. sidtables are 
nice but these hardcore effects we all like mostly can´t be done with 
it. and only using hardsid is a little bit frustrating. because it is 
just like a external player.. like playing a cd in a cd-player:/ it 
would be nice when there would be something between. maybee a 
sidstation editor with advanced programming.. but i guess no one -
even electron- will do it. anyway track on ;)
-phono


--- In elektron-users@y..., "Chris Stammen" <cosmiq@h...> wrote:
> Thanks for the usefull information! :)  And indeed.. I better use 
goat-tracker to build rithms and afterwards record it while playing 
the sid through the sidstation: It's not only easier to compose with 
a tracker (IMO), but it also gives the oppertunity to compose the SID 
while I don't even have the sidstation (yet). Good tip! :)
> The way of composing with lot's of sysex data to 'program' the 
oscillator volumes doesn't sound like a fun way to compose. 
Especially not in a 'horizontal way of composing' (cakewalk / cubase 
style - blerghh)  Anyway: I just *love* the oldskool tracker-
arpeggiators (effect 0xx in protracker).. It seems that they can be 
built with the Sidstation. Therefor I definately gonna buy one!  Do 
you know how these arps are made?  I tried to build these on my K-
Station and Virus but both of them didn't gave a good result. 
(Just 'UP'-arpeggiated a pulse with some PWM and a bit delay;;  the 
result was a chaos of sounds, far too clear to compare with the 
original module -arps)
> Thanks again for the story down here ;-) And Steven, could you warn 
me when you have made a sidstation- rithm!?  I'm curious of what's 
possible with that toy!
> greetz,
> -Chris
> 
> 
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Steven Henry 
>   To: elektron-users@y... 
>   Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 3:12 PM
>   Subject: Re: [elektron] SidStation Drumpatches
> 
> 
>   >Is it possible to build oldskool C64 rithms with a sidstation? 
And then, 
>   >how are the patches arranged? (Can I assign C#2 to bassdrum, D#2 
to snare, 
>   >E#2 to hihat, etc and build a drumbank this way?)
> 
>   Although the sidstation can achieve the oldskool drum sounds, its 
usually 
>   only possible to trigger them as you would if you had built the 
sound on any 
>   synth (one per patch).
> 
>   You build single drum sounds in the table editor (all 3 
oscilators have a 
>   wavetable.) If you've never used a sid tracker before, the 
wavetable looks 
>   like a step sequencer with assignable waveform, pitch etc. for 
each step. If 
>   you set the playback rate fast enough this sequence can sound 
like a snare 
>   or a bassdrum. Its also possible to build whole beats this way 
(but this is 
>   very tricky compared to a c64 tracker.)
> 
>   Unfortuneatly you can't assign each oscilator to a different 
note / midi 
>   channel. So you can only really play one sequence/drum sound at a 
time. The 
>   operating system on the sid is set out like a synth.. so even if 
it had 
>   assignable midi channels - normal drum machine funtions eg. 
copying and 
>   pasting single drum sounds wouldn't be possible without an 
external editor. 
>   Instead, All 3 oscilators are grouped as a patch, which seems 
like a bit of 
>   a waste. So while the sid is great for lead sounds and single 
drum hits the 
>   kind of opperation which you talk of would not be available 
without a major 
>   O.S. re-build.
> 
>   There are a few ways to get around this. One is to set your 
wavetables to 
>   different drum sounds, trigger when you want a hit, mute the 
oscilators via 
>   midi and use a program (ive used max/msp for this) to send 
controllers to 
>   unmute the oscilators as they are needed. (extremly back 
asswards.)
> 
>   Of course, there are also a few alternatives to building the 
beats on the 
>   sid. I usually use goat tracker (pc bassed sid tracker) save the 
file as a 
>   sid.. and play back using ASID mode. (a funtion on the sidstation 
which 
>   allows you to play sid tunes via sysex from your computer on the 
sid.) Iv'e 
>   also attempted to build an ASID drum machine in Max. with quite 
nice 
>   results. but this is unfinnished due to 8 bit sysex grief .
> 
>   >Is the noise coming out of the C64 chip really that terrible?
> 
>   No not at all.. the noise is one of the best bits. It isnt really 
noise. 
>   what happens is that the oscilators don't stop when you stop 
playing, so the 
>   backround noise is just a tuneful variation on the last note you 
played. 
>   sometimes it even blurts out a big groan.
> 
>   It really is a fantastic instrument  with morr character than any 
other 
>   synth ive ever used. though a drum macine it aint'.
> 
>   >Where can I find MP3's only using SidStation ( I already 
downloaded all the 
>   >mP3s on sidstation.com)
> 
>   Hmmn, I know alot of the guys at ww.micromusic.net use 
Sidstations. but most 
>   sid fundamentalists use trackers.
> 
>   /Steven
> 
>   _________________________________________________________________
>   Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: 
http://messenger.msn.com
> 
> 
>         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
>               ADVERTISEMENT
>              
>        
> 
>   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of 
Service. 

> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]