Datacolor User to User Support Group.

On my 3800 I have not been able to get dmax much above 1.61 on
Enhanced Matte measured with my PFP spectro when using a color managed
workflow. It doesn't matter whether I'm using a PFP Extended target
profile or the canned one from Epson. However when I'm printing with
the ABW driver I'm getting 1.68.

The ability to tune the profiles is really neat in PFP, but so far
this seems like a deal breaker when it comes to BW output. 

Does anyone have any suggestions about what can be done to get the max
black out of the system when using color mgmt?

David,

Switching papers and longevity aren't the issue. The fact is that it
appears ABW gives greater dmax than when printing in color mode via a
standard color managed workflow. I'm not the only one who has noticed
this. As this is the case with EEM I suspect it will be with other
papers also. So the question remains. 

What is it that is happening in the ABW mode that produces greater
blacks, and is there a way to achieve the same density in color mode?

Derek


--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, CDTobie@... wrote:
>
> 
> In a message dated 4/6/07 3:47:20 PM, dealy663@... writes:
> 
> 
> > 
> > Does anyone have any suggestions about what can be done to get the max
> > black out of the system when using color mgmt?
> > 
> > Start by not using Enhanced Matte paper. If a fractionally darker
black is 
> that important to you, find a paper that offers a fractionally
darker black (and 
> better logevity, while you are at it). Then experiment with all
available 
> media settings; just because one setting has the same name as the
media you are 
> using, does NOT mean that setting is the best for building custom
profiles for 

> that media.
> 
> C. David Tobie
> Product Technology Manager
> ColorVision Business Unit
> Datacolor Inc.
> CDTobie@...
> www.colorvision.com
> 
> 
> **************************************
>  See what's free at 
> http://www.aol.com.
>

Sorry to ask but how do you measure dmax with PFP? 

--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, "dealy663" <dealy663@...> wrote:

>
> On my 3800 I have not been able to get dmax much above 1.61 on
> Enhanced Matte measured with my PFP spectro when using a color managed
> workflow. It doesn't matter whether I'm using a PFP Extended target
> profile or the canned one from Epson. However when I'm printing with
> the ABW driver I'm getting 1.68.
> 
> The ability to tune the profiles is really neat in PFP, but so far
> this seems like a deal breaker when it comes to BW output. 
> 
> Does anyone have any suggestions about what can be done to get the max
> black out of the system when using color mgmt?
>

>Sorry to ask but how do you measure dmax with PFP?
>

Use Tools:Measure; and measure the "pure black" patch in the target
that you've printed and that you're going to build a profile from.
(This will be patch 1A, the first patch).

The density value you measure will be dMax; how dark the black patch
is will depend completely on the printer driver settings, because
you've printed the target with no color management in the driver. How
much ink gets put down (and which inks go into the black patch) is
determined by the internals of the printer driver; primarily, this comes
from the paper/media type setting, but it will also be affected by output
resolution/print quality/speed.

-- 
David Miller
Senior Software Developer, Digital Color Solutions
ColorVision

Yes, that is the thing, you need to test several media settings in the 
RGB driver by printing out total black patches and comparing them with 
the spectro readings. Most likely they will all differ.

What I didn't know is that the speed has a real effect on this also. If 
one slows down a printer a lot, say from 1440 4 pass to 1440 8 pass on 
a large format printer, should one see a measureable difference in 
damax...? And if so which should be the higher dmax and why? The slower 
speed?

John




. How
> much ink gets put down (and which inks go into the black patch) is
> determined by the internals of the printer driver; primarily, this 
comes
> from the paper/media type setting, but it will also be affected by 
output

> resolution/print quality/speed.
> 
> -- 
> David Miller
> Senior Software Developer, Digital Color Solutions
> ColorVision
>

I didn't know... printing with an R1800 I just made some readings and
here what I've got:

Epson Velvet Fine Art Paper = 1.79
Epson Enhanced Matte = 1.72
Hahnemuhle Photo Rag 308 = 1.68 

How is bad?

--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, CDTobie@... wrote:
>
> 
> In a message dated 4/7/07 11:57:31 AM, michele@... writes:
> 
> 
> > Sorry to ask but how do you measure dmax with PFP?
> > 
> 
> You use the measure function in the tools menu, place the spectro on
a black 
> patch, and read out the number in the density section. Best to
calibrate 
> first, and take a couple of other reading to warm up the device,
since you are 
> taking an absolute reading, with a lot of leverage behind it
(reading darkness 

> with a light sensor...)
> 
> C. David Tobie
> Product Technology Manager
> ColorVision Business Division
> DataColor Inc.
> CDTobie@...
> www.colorvision.com
> 
> 
> **************************************
>  See what's free at 
> http://www.aol.com.
>

Well if you are achieveing a dmax of 1.79 on any matte media with any
pigment inkset you are beating everyone else in the world so I would
stick with that :-).


john



--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, "Michele Berti"
<michele@...> wrote:

>
> I didn't know... printing with an R1800 I just made some readings and
> here what I've got:
> 
> Epson Velvet Fine Art Paper = 1.79
> Epson Enhanced Matte = 1.72
> Hahnemuhle Photo Rag 308 = 1.68 
> 
> How is bad?
> 
> --- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, CDTobie@ wrote:
> >
> > 
> > In a message dated 4/7/07 11:57:31 AM, michele@ writes:
> > 
> > 
> > > Sorry to ask but how do you measure dmax with PFP?
> > > 
> > 
> > You use the measure function in the tools menu, place the spectro on
> a black 
> > patch, and read out the number in the density section. Best to
> calibrate 
> > first, and take a couple of other reading to warm up the device,
> since you are 
> > taking an absolute reading, with a lot of leverage behind it
> (reading darkness 
> > with a light sensor...)
> > 
> > C. David Tobie
> > Product Technology Manager
> > ColorVision Business Division
> > DataColor Inc.
> > CDTobie@
> > www.colorvision.com
> > 
> > 
> > **************************************
> >  See what's free at 
> > http://www.aol.com.
> >
>

actually that is what I get when measuring the cell A1 in the 729
target for any of the paper listed below

--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, "john dean"
<deanwork2003@...> wrote:

>
> Well if you are achieveing a dmax of 1.79 on any matte media with any
> pigment inkset you are beating everyone else in the world so I would
> stick with that :-).
> 
> 
> john
> 
> 
> 
> --- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, "Michele Berti"
> <michele@> wrote:
> >
> > I didn't know... printing with an R1800 I just made some readings and
> > here what I've got:
> > 
> > Epson Velvet Fine Art Paper = 1.79
> > Epson Enhanced Matte = 1.72
> > Hahnemuhle Photo Rag 308 = 1.68 
> > 
> > How is bad?
> > 
> > --- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, CDTobie@ wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> > > In a message dated 4/7/07 11:57:31 AM, michele@ writes:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > Sorry to ask but how do you measure dmax with PFP?
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > You use the measure function in the tools menu, place the spectro on
> > a black 
> > > patch, and read out the number in the density section. Best to
> > calibrate 
> > > first, and take a couple of other reading to warm up the device,
> > since you are 
> > > taking an absolute reading, with a lot of leverage behind it
> > (reading darkness 
> > > with a light sensor...)
> > > 
> > > C. David Tobie
> > > Product Technology Manager
> > > ColorVision Business Division
> > > DataColor Inc.
> > > CDTobie@
> > > www.colorvision.com
> > > 
> > > 
> > > **************************************
> > >  See what's free at 
> > > http://www.aol.com.
> > >
> >
>