Cgs synth

From: casperelectronics
To: cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 12:54 AM
Subject: [cgs_synth] bi-n-tic filter...help!


I just finished building the bi-n-tic filter and I don't seem to be
getting any osc. output. The filter works great, bandwidth and damper
do what they are supposed to do but the frequency controls don't do
anything. Anyone have much experience with this circuit?




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Any component substitutions?
> 99% of the time it's a polarity, wiring or trace problem, at least
> with me :)
>
> Cheers,
> Scott
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: casperelectronics
> To: cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 12:54 AM
> Subject: [cgs_synth] bi-n-tic filter...help!
>
> I just finished building the bi-n-tic filter and I don't seem to be
> getting any osc. output. The filter works great, bandwidth and damper
> do what they are supposed to do but the frequency controls don't do
> anything. Anyone have much experience with this circuit?
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

--- In cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com, casperelectronics <pete@...> wrote:
>
> I just finished building the bi-n-tic filter and I don't seem to be
> getting any osc. output. The filter works great, bandwidth and
damper
> do what they are supposed to do but the frequency controls don't do
> anything. Anyone have much experience with this circuit?
>

On Apr 3, 2007, at 3:19 PM, casperelectronics wrote:

> Hey scott,
> Here are all of the part substitutions. I think these should all work
> no prob.
> LF356 > TL071s,
> LM394>ssm2010 (Ray Wilson lists this as a good replacement for the
> LM394)
> 1Ktempco>standard 1K resistor
> 1N4148>1N914
> input "beads">10ohm resistors
> I used a 2N4091 for my FET (which is what he says he uses in the
> circuit description).
> I checked all of the polarities, jumpers and other connections...no
> prob. Before I wrote I noticed that my diode was in backwards. I was
> excited thinking
> that this must be the source of the problem,,,, I flipped it around
> and their was absolutely no noticeable change in performance :(
> How do you switch between filter and osc. when this is working
> correctly?
> -pete
>
> On Apr 3, 2007, at 9:14 AM, <contact@...>
> <contact@...> wrote:
>
> > Any component substitutions?
> > 99% of the time it's a polarity, wiring or trace problem, at least
> > with me :)
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Scott
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: casperelectronics
> > To: cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 12:54 AM
> > Subject: [cgs_synth] bi-n-tic filter...help!
> >
> > I just finished building the bi-n-tic filter and I don't seem to be
> > getting any osc. output. The filter works great, bandwidth and
> damper
> > do what they are supposed to do but the frequency controls don't do
> > anything. Anyone have much experience with this circuit?
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Apr 4, 2007, at 10:18 AM, Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N. wrote:

> Take an oscilloscope probe or digital multimeter, and touch the output
> pin of the CA3140, to see whether you see the roughly 5 volt sawtooth
> or 5V AC signal (on the DMM).
>
> If you don't, your problem COULD possibly be the 2N jfet transistor
> not seated in the correct polarity. Though it may LOOK correct from
> the top down, it could possibly be 180 degrees out. Find a pinout for
> that tranny, showing the Gate, Source and Drain leg #'s and whether
> they're shown in the diagram from the TOP DOWN or from the BOTTOM UP.
> I have made this mistake a couple of times over the years. :)
>
> There is also a modification that Ken lists on the related webpage for
> the VCO output TO the Clock that is driving the VCF portion. I had to
> do this, on my 1st of 2 BiNTic modules. (I haven't completed the 2nd
> one yet.)
>
> Also - building the BiNTic STOCK, you wont be able to have a separate
> VCO output, from the VCF. The VCO is hardwired to the VCF's clock
> control. (Which controls the timing of the 4051 muxes, for switching
> the capacitors.) I'm doing a modification to the board to buffer the
> VCO output as well as bring it (Sawtooth) and 2 separate Pulse Wave
> with Pulse Wave Modulation outputs, to the front panel, along with a
> Clock Input jack.
>
> You'd said that the Bandwidth and Damper controls are working. Your
> VCO probably IS working, as it's switching the clock. With the
> Frequency controls not working though, check all of your solder points
> around the dual opamp summer for the CV Inputs (which includes the
> Frequency controls.) Check with a multimeter in continuity, whether
> the traces conduct, all the way through the IC sockets, to the actual
> IC legs. Quite often, I myself have found legs unsoldered. :)
>
> Hope this helps for both of you. :)
>
> (Back to lurking. Trying to figure out how I screwed up my Internet
> connection on my old computer, when I was trying to network my new
> computer with it. :( Don't know when I'll be back on for sure.
> (Wishing I had the Networking For Dummies book. :O :) )
>
> --
> Take care,
> Warmth and Peace,
> Ryk
>
> http://www.sdiy.org/damian/index.html
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Apr 4, 2007, at 10:18 AM, Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N. wrote:

> Take an oscilloscope probe or digital multimeter, and touch the output
> pin of the CA3140, to see whether you see the roughly 5 volt sawtooth
> or 5V AC signal (on the DMM).
>
> If you don't, your problem COULD possibly be the 2N jfet transistor
> not seated in the correct polarity. Though it may LOOK correct from
> the top down, it could possibly be 180 degrees out. Find a pinout for
> that tranny, showing the Gate, Source and Drain leg #'s and whether
> they're shown in the diagram from the TOP DOWN or from the BOTTOM UP.
> I have made this mistake a couple of times over the years. :)
>
> There is also a modification that Ken lists on the related webpage for
> the VCO output TO the Clock that is driving the VCF portion. I had to
> do this, on my 1st of 2 BiNTic modules. (I haven't completed the 2nd
> one yet.)
>
> Also - building the BiNTic STOCK, you wont be able to have a separate
> VCO output, from the VCF. The VCO is hardwired to the VCF's clock
> control. (Which controls the timing of the 4051 muxes, for switching
> the capacitors.) I'm doing a modification to the board to buffer the
> VCO output as well as bring it (Sawtooth) and 2 separate Pulse Wave
> with Pulse Wave Modulation outputs, to the front panel, along with a
> Clock Input jack.
>
> You'd said that the Bandwidth and Damper controls are working. Your
> VCO probably IS working, as it's switching the clock. With the
> Frequency controls not working though, check all of your solder points
> around the dual opamp summer for the CV Inputs (which includes the
> Frequency controls.) Check with a multimeter in continuity, whether
> the traces conduct, all the way through the IC sockets, to the actual
> IC legs. Quite often, I myself have found legs unsoldered. :)
>
> Hope this helps for both of you. :)
>
> (Back to lurking. Trying to figure out how I screwed up my Internet
> connection on my old computer, when I was trying to network my new
> computer with it. :( Don't know when I'll be back on for sure.
> (Wishing I had the Networking For Dummies book. :O :) )
>
> --
> Take care,
> Warmth and Peace,
> Ryk
>
> http://www.sdiy.org/damian/index.html
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






---------------------------------
Looking for earth-friendly autos?
Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Apr 4, 2007, at 12:23 PM, timothy cooper wrote:

> Well, the frequency controls control the frequency of the internal
> oscillator which is used to "excite" the signal. If you go to Mr.
> Deyo's website: www.bridechamber.com he has a schematic from
> electronotes posted that pumps up the oscillator signal to usable
> levels outside of the filter section and even shapes it into a square
> and saw wave! Aside from that, Im quite a novice myself so can't
> really help out too much more.
> Ti_.
>
> casperelectronics <pete@...> wrote: Hey Ryk,
> Thanks for the info. I wish I could help you with your networking
> issues :(
> I've done most of the things you suggested...I've made the transistor
> direction mistake a few times.. I know what you mean about the
> drawing.
> The first thing I have to try is testing the output of the 3140.
> My understanding of this circuit is that I should be able to get it
> to function as a filter OR as an oscillator. Is the oscillator the
> filter with high resonance?
>
> What are the frequency controls supposed to do??
> -pete
>
> On Apr 4, 2007, at 10:18 AM, Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N. wrote:
>
> > Take an oscilloscope probe or digital multimeter, and touch the
> output
> > pin of the CA3140, to see whether you see the roughly 5 volt
> sawtooth
> > or 5V AC signal (on the DMM).
> >
> > If you don't, your problem COULD possibly be the 2N jfet transistor
> > not seated in the correct polarity. Though it may LOOK correct from
> > the top down, it could possibly be 180 degrees out. Find a pinout
> for
> > that tranny, showing the Gate, Source and Drain leg #'s and whether
> > they're shown in the diagram from the TOP DOWN or from the BOTTOM
> UP.
> > I have made this mistake a couple of times over the years. :)
> >
> > There is also a modification that Ken lists on the related webpage
> for
> > the VCO output TO the Clock that is driving the VCF portion. I had
> to
> > do this, on my 1st of 2 BiNTic modules. (I haven't completed the 2nd
> > one yet.)
> >
> > Also - building the BiNTic STOCK, you wont be able to have a
> separate
> > VCO output, from the VCF. The VCO is hardwired to the VCF's clock
> > control. (Which controls the timing of the 4051 muxes, for switching
> > the capacitors.) I'm doing a modification to the board to buffer the
> > VCO output as well as bring it (Sawtooth) and 2 separate Pulse Wave
> > with Pulse Wave Modulation outputs, to the front panel, along with a
> > Clock Input jack.
> >
> > You'd said that the Bandwidth and Damper controls are working. Your
> > VCO probably IS working, as it's switching the clock. With the
> > Frequency controls not working though, check all of your solder
> points
> > around the dual opamp summer for the CV Inputs (which includes the
> > Frequency controls.) Check with a multimeter in continuity, whether
> > the traces conduct, all the way through the IC sockets, to the
> actual
> > IC legs. Quite often, I myself have found legs unsoldered. :)
> >
> > Hope this helps for both of you. :)
> >
> > (Back to lurking. Trying to figure out how I screwed up my Internet
> > connection on my old computer, when I was trying to network my new
> > computer with it. :( Don't know when I'll be back on for sure.
> > (Wishing I had the Networking For Dummies book. :O :) )
> >
> > --
> > Take care,
> > Warmth and Peace,
> > Ryk
> >
> > http://www.sdiy.org/damian/index.html
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Looking for earth-friendly autos?
> Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>Take an oscilloscope probe or digital multimeter, and touch the output
>pin of the CA3140, to see whether you see the roughly 5 volt sawtooth
>or 5V AC signal (on the DMM).
>
>If you don't, your problem COULD possibly be the 2N jfet transistor
>not seated in the correct polarity. Though it may LOOK correct from
>the top down, it could possibly be 180 degrees out. Find a pinout for
>that tranny, showing the Gate, Source and Drain leg #'s and whether
>they're shown in the diagram from the TOP DOWN or from the BOTTOM UP.
>I have made this mistake a couple of times over the years. :)
>
>There is also a modification that Ken lists on the related webpage for
>the VCO output TO the Clock that is driving the VCF portion. I had to
>do this, on my 1st of 2 BiNTic modules. (I haven't completed the 2nd
>one yet.)
>
>Also - building the BiNTic STOCK, you wont be able to have a separate
>VCO output, from the VCF. The VCO is hardwired to the VCF's clock
>control. (Which controls the timing of the 4051 muxes, for switching
>the capacitors.) I'm doing a modification to the board to buffer the
>VCO output as well as bring it (Sawtooth) and 2 separate Pulse Wave
>with Pulse Wave Modulation outputs, to the front panel, along with a
>Clock Input jack.
>
>You'd said that the Bandwidth and Damper controls are working. Your
>VCO probably IS working, as it's switching the clock. With the
>Frequency controls not working though, check all of your solder points
>around the dual opamp summer for the CV Inputs (which includes the
>Frequency controls.) Check with a multimeter in continuity, whether
>the traces conduct, all the way through the IC sockets, to the actual
>IC legs. Quite often, I myself have found legs unsoldered. :)
>
>Hope this helps for both of you. :)
>
>(Back to lurking. Trying to figure out how I screwed up my Internet
>connection on my old computer, when I was trying to network my new
>computer with it. :( Don't know when I'll be back on for sure.
>(Wishing I had the Networking For Dummies book. :O :) )
>
>--
>Take care,
>Warmth and Peace,
>Ryk
>
>http://www.sdiy.org/damian/index.html
>
>
>The CGS Modular Synth home page: http://www.cgs.synth.net/
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

On Apr 3, 2007, at 3:19 PM, casperelectronics wrote:

> Hey scott,
> Here are all of the part substitutions. I think these should all work
> no prob.
> LF356 > TL071s,
> LM394>ssm2010 (Ray Wilson lists this as a good replacement for the
> LM394)
> 1Ktempco>standard 1K resistor
> 1N4148>1N914
> input "beads">10ohm resistors
> I used a 2N4091 for my FET (which is what he says he uses in the
> circuit description).
> I checked all of the polarities, jumpers and other connections...no
> prob. Before I wrote I noticed that my diode was in backwards. I was
> excited thinking
> that this must be the source of the problem,,,, I flipped it around
> and their was absolutely no noticeable change in performance :(
> How do you switch between filter and osc. when this is working
> correctly?
> -pete
>
> On Apr 3, 2007, at 9:14 AM, <contact@...>
> <contact@...> wrote:
>
> > Any component substitutions?
> > 99% of the time it's a polarity, wiring or trace problem, at least
> > with me :)
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Scott
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: casperelectronics
> > To: cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 12:54 AM
> > Subject: [cgs_synth] bi-n-tic filter...help!
> >
> > I just finished building the bi-n-tic filter and I don't seem to be
> > getting any osc. output. The filter works great, bandwidth and
> damper
> > do what they are supposed to do but the frequency controls don't do
> > anything. Anyone have much experience with this circuit?
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com, "vtl5c3" <romeo.fahl@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks to the recent thread I decided to revisit my non-working
> Bi-N-Tic filter. I'd used a BF245A or B for the VCO FET. Not a good
> substitute - don't bother trying it. I found a PN4091 in my stash,
> soldered it in and the VCO started working right away.
>
> The next problem was the diode that goes to the BC547. I have the
> Rev.1.1 board and didn't know about the error on PCB until I happened
> to re-read the fine print on the CGS site this morning. Putting the
> diode in correctly and fixing a blown trace got the module working...
>
> One modification that I made is that I took four of the 4024 outputs
> and summed them into a CGS04 mixer, which I piggy-backed onto the main
> board. That output is then fed into the second audio input, adding
> some nice "prickly" pulses if I turn up the gain.
>
> It's quite an ornery beast. The patch I came up with this morning made
> me think of nails being thrown into a jet engine. I'll try and record
> a sample later on.
>

On Apr 5, 2007, at 3:01 PM, Scott Deyo wrote:

> I've been using the PN4391, not 2N4391. Sorry. Same pinout as the FET
> on the PCB.
> Didn't get to play w/ it last night...
>
> Scott Deyo
> The Bridechamber
> contact@...
> www.bridechamber.com
>
> On Apr 3, 2007, at 3:19 PM, casperelectronics wrote:
>
> > Hey scott,
> > Here are all of the part substitutions. I think these should all
> work
> > no prob.
> > LF356 > TL071s,
> > LM394>ssm2010 (Ray Wilson lists this as a good replacement for the
> > LM394)
> > 1Ktempco>standard 1K resistor
> > 1N4148>1N914
> > input "beads">10ohm resistors
> > I used a 2N4091 for my FET (which is what he says he uses in the
> > circuit description).
> > I checked all of the polarities, jumpers and other connections...no
> > prob. Before I wrote I noticed that my diode was in backwards. I was
> > excited thinking
> > that this must be the source of the problem,,,, I flipped it around
> > and their was absolutely no noticeable change in performance :(
> > How do you switch between filter and osc. when this is working
> > correctly?
> > -pete
> >
> > On Apr 3, 2007, at 9:14 AM, <contact@...>
> > <contact@...> wrote:
> >
> > > Any component substitutions?
> > > 99% of the time it's a polarity, wiring or trace problem, at least
> > > with me :)
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Scott
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: casperelectronics
> > > To: cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 12:54 AM
> > > Subject: [cgs_synth] bi-n-tic filter...help!
> > >
> > > I just finished building the bi-n-tic filter and I don't seem
> to be
> > > getting any osc. output. The filter works great, bandwidth and
> > damper
> > > do what they are supposed to do but the frequency controls
> don't do
> > > anything. Anyone have much experience with this circuit?
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: casperelectronics
To: cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 5:30 PM
Subject: Re: [cgs_synth] bi-n-tic filter...help!


I just realized I've been using the PN4391 too. But I don't think it
should make any difference.
I'm still confused....
Is this module supposed to function as a VCF> and< VCO or is it just
a VCF? Is the VCO only possible with added circuitry?
I'm confused because from Ken Stone's web site it sounds like you
should be able to use this module as a VCO.
This is an excerpt from the bi-n-tic page where he describes the
"excitation" rotary switch.
"Positions 2 to 5 of the rotary switch now provide four signals, one
octave apart, to "excite" the the filter when it is adjusted to be
near resonant, or if the filter is backed off, four octaves of square
wave VCO output."
Thanks!
-pete
www.casperelectronics.com

On Apr 5, 2007, at 3:01 PM, Scott Deyo wrote:

> I've been using the PN4391, not 2N4391. Sorry. Same pinout as the FET
> on the PCB.
> Didn't get to play w/ it last night...
>
> Scott Deyo
> The Bridechamber
> contact@...
> www.bridechamber.com
>
> On Apr 3, 2007, at 3:19 PM, casperelectronics wrote:
>
> > Hey scott,
> > Here are all of the part substitutions. I think these should all
> work
> > no prob.
> > LF356 > TL071s,
> > LM394>ssm2010 (Ray Wilson lists this as a good replacement for the
> > LM394)
> > 1Ktempco>standard 1K resistor
> > 1N4148>1N914
> > input "beads">10ohm resistors
> > I used a 2N4091 for my FET (which is what he says he uses in the
> > circuit description).
> > I checked all of the polarities, jumpers and other connections...no
> > prob. Before I wrote I noticed that my diode was in backwards. I was
> > excited thinking
> > that this must be the source of the problem,,,, I flipped it around
> > and their was absolutely no noticeable change in performance :(
> > How do you switch between filter and osc. when this is working
> > correctly?
> > -pete
> >
> > On Apr 3, 2007, at 9:14 AM, <contact@...>
> > <contact@...> wrote:
> >
> > > Any component substitutions?
> > > 99% of the time it's a polarity, wiring or trace problem, at least
> > > with me :)
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Scott
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: casperelectronics
> > > To: cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 12:54 AM
> > > Subject: [cgs_synth] bi-n-tic filter...help!
> > >
> > > I just finished building the bi-n-tic filter and I don't seem
> to be
> > > getting any osc. output. The filter works great, bandwidth and
> > damper
> > > do what they are supposed to do but the frequency controls
> don't do
> > > anything. Anyone have much experience with this circuit?
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> I posted a couple of quick and dirty examples of my Bi-N-Tic module under:
>
> http://web.pdx.edu/~rfahl/Audio/
>
> bi_n_ticked_off.mp3 is a simple sequenced ditty, square wave of an
> Electronotes Option 3 VCO into the BNT's audio input, another analog
> sequencer driving one CV input of the BNT's VCO and a triangle LFO
> driving another CV input.
>
> bi_n_ticked_off2.mp3 starts with only the 4 divider outputs being fed
> into the audio in, then the EN Opt. 3 VCO ditty is faded into the
> other audio input. Only CV into the BNT VCO is the same tri LFO as above.
>
>
> --- In cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com, "vtl5c3" <romeo.fahl@...> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks to the recent thread I decided to revisit my non-working
> > Bi-N-Tic filter. I'd used a BF245A or B for the VCO FET. Not a good
> > substitute - don't bother trying it. I found a PN4091 in my stash,
> > soldered it in and the VCO started working right away.
> >
> > The next problem was the diode that goes to the BC547. I have the
> > Rev.1.1 board and didn't know about the error on PCB until I happened
> > to re-read the fine print on the CGS site this morning. Putting the
> > diode in correctly and fixing a blown trace got the module working...
> >
> > One modification that I made is that I took four of the 4024 outputs
> > and summed them into a CGS04 mixer, which I piggy-backed onto the main
> > board. That output is then fed into the second audio input, adding
> > some nice "prickly" pulses if I turn up the gain.
> >
> > It's quite an ornery beast. The patch I came up with this morning made
> > me think of nails being thrown into a jet engine. I'll try and record
> > a sample later on.
> >
>
>
>
>
> The CGS Modular Synth home page: http://www.cgs.synth.net/
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

--- In cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com, "vtl5c3" <romeo.fahl@...> wrote:
>
> I posted a couple of quick and dirty examples of my Bi-N-Tic module
under:
>
> http://web.pdx.edu/~rfahl/Audio/
>
> bi_n_ticked_off.mp3 is a simple sequenced ditty, square wave of an
> Electronotes Option 3 VCO into the BNT's audio input, another analog
> sequencer driving one CV input of the BNT's VCO and a triangle LFO
> driving another CV input.
>
> bi_n_ticked_off2.mp3 starts with only the 4 divider outputs being fed
> into the audio in, then the EN Opt. 3 VCO ditty is faded into the
> other audio input. Only CV into the BNT VCO is the same tri LFO as
above.
>
>
> --- In cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com, "vtl5c3" <romeo.fahl@> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks to the recent thread I decided to revisit my non-working
> > Bi-N-Tic filter. I'd used a BF245A or B for the VCO FET. Not a good
> > substitute - don't bother trying it. I found a PN4091 in my stash,
> > soldered it in and the VCO started working right away.
> >
> > The next problem was the diode that goes to the BC547. I have the
> > Rev.1.1 board and didn't know about the error on PCB until I happened
> > to re-read the fine print on the CGS site this morning. Putting the
> > diode in correctly and fixing a blown trace got the module working...
> >
> > One modification that I made is that I took four of the 4024 outputs
> > and summed them into a CGS04 mixer, which I piggy-backed onto the main
> > board. That output is then fed into the second audio input, adding
> > some nice "prickly" pulses if I turn up the gain.
> >
> > It's quite an ornery beast. The patch I came up with this morning made
> > me think of nails being thrown into a jet engine. I'll try and record
> > a sample later on.
> >
>

> My understanding of this circuit is that I should be able to get it
> to function as a filter OR as an oscillator. Is the oscillator the
> filter with high resonance?
>
> What are the frequency controls supposed to do??
> -pete
>
>

On Apr 7, 2007, at 3:03 PM, vtl5c3 wrote:

> I posted a couple of quick and dirty examples of my Bi-N-Tic module
> under:
>
> http://web.pdx.edu/~rfahl/Audio/
>
> bi_n_ticked_off.mp3 is a simple sequenced ditty, square wave of an
> Electronotes Option 3 VCO into the BNT's audio input, another analog
> sequencer driving one CV input of the BNT's VCO and a triangle LFO
> driving another CV input.
>
> bi_n_ticked_off2.mp3 starts with only the 4 divider outputs being fed
> into the audio in, then the EN Opt. 3 VCO ditty is faded into the
> other audio input. Only CV into the BNT VCO is the same tri LFO as
> above.
>
> --- In cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com, "vtl5c3" <romeo.fahl@...> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks to the recent thread I decided to revisit my non-working
> > Bi-N-Tic filter. I'd used a BF245A or B for the VCO FET. Not a good
> > substitute - don't bother trying it. I found a PN4091 in my stash,
> > soldered it in and the VCO started working right away.
> >
> > The next problem was the diode that goes to the BC547. I have the
> > Rev.1.1 board and didn't know about the error on PCB until I
> happened
> > to re-read the fine print on the CGS site this morning. Putting the
> > diode in correctly and fixing a blown trace got the module
> working...
> >
> > One modification that I made is that I took four of the 4024 outputs
> > and summed them into a CGS04 mixer, which I piggy-backed onto the
> main
> > board. That output is then fed into the second audio input, adding
> > some nice "prickly" pulses if I turn up the gain.
> >
> > It's quite an ornery beast. The patch I came up with this morning
> made
> > me think of nails being thrown into a jet engine. I'll try and
> record
> > a sample later on.
> >
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 4/13/07, sasami@... <sasami@...> wrote:
>
> >>(BEWARE THE 'REVERSE' POWER SUPPLY PIN-OUTS! - I'm supprised I
> >>didn't fry everything on the board).
> >
> >The power supply pins don't follow MOTM format?? I could see how
> >that could cause a problem. Do you need to make a special cable??
>
> Huh?? Is this on the daughter board?
>
> Ken
> __________________________________________________________
> Ken Stone sasami@... <sasami%40hotkey.net.au>
> Modular Synth PCBs for sale <http://www.cgs.synth.net/>
> Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/<http://www.blaze.net.au/%7Esasami/>
> >
>
>
>



--
Wasubot
----------------------------
Notes: Special Sequence Mixed For Dancing


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Mark
To: cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 12:17 AM
Subject: Re: [cgs_synth] Re: Success! (Was: bi-n-tic filter...help!)


On 4/12/07, James Elliott put forth:
>I ordered the MOTM Bridechamber version from Scott. I had some
>difficulties initially with the construction, however once I got
>everything figured out it worked fine

After looking at the docs, the daughter board for the VCO outputs
seems a possible source of confusion. It says "You need to bend two
pins so that they do NOT go into the socket," but the schematic shows
all eight pins -- as one would expect -- of the dual op-amp being
used.

>(BEWARE THE 'REVERSE' POWER SUPPLY PIN-OUTS! - I'm supprised I
>didn't fry everything on the board).

The power supply pins don't follow MOTM format?? I could see how
that could cause a problem. Do you need to make a special cable??

>The panel looks good & it was pretty easy to build. As for the
>module itself - I consider it more of a VCO than a filter. It's as
>much of a filter as a flanger is..... Meaning it does not really
>resemble a filter :) To me its seems more of a frequency shifter,
>with some added crazyness. HOWEVER I personally think that it is a
>pretty cool module once you realize what it is vs what it isn't

While I have no idea how it could sound like a frequency shifter, I
do like the demos that I have heard -- very impressive. That it can
be used either as a regular VCO or an unusual filter makes it seem
much more practical.

Also, while I'm typing, the schematic on the CGS website shows a both
1V/Oct and linear FM inputs, but the Bridechamber panel looks like it
has a an "EXP FM" input. Is the linear FM input unused??

http://www.bridechamber.com/bi_n_tic_big.html
http://www.cgs.synth.net/modules/pic/schem_cgs57_bintic.gif




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Apr 14, 2007, at 2:31 PM, Mark wrote:

>
> On 4/13/07, Scott Deyo put forth:
> >
> >Maybe the 358 would be better. I just had 072s, and they've worked on
> >around 10 Bintics I've built.
> >Follow the Electronotes link on Ken's VCO page to get a full
> >description. My mod is from there.
>
> I think I found the issue here.
>
> On the Electronotes it is wired as a comparator, as shown here:
>
> http://home.att.net/~synthsource/ens76/vco2.htm
>
> Notice that on IC-7, the 2M resistor goes from the output to the
> positive/non-inverting input. That's a comparator.
>
> On the Bridechamnber site, it is wired as an inverting amp, as shown
> here:
>
> https://bridechamber.sslpowered.com/
> bintic%20vco%20outputs%20schematic.pdf
>
> Notice on that the 2M resistor goes from the output to the
> negative/inverting input. That's an inverting amplifier with
> extremely high gain.
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Mark
To: cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2007 1:20 PM
Subject: Re: [cgs_synth] bi-n-tic filter


On 4/14/07, Richard Brewster put forth:
>As I mentioned last week, I patched up a demo of the Bi-N-Tic Filter to
>show how it can work nicely as a VCO. Go here to listen to it.
>
>http://www.pugix.com/bottom-cabinet-lower.htm#cgsbintic
>
>bi-n-tic-vcf-vco.mp3 <http://www.pugix.com/music/bi-n-tic-vcf-vco.mp3>

Thank you for posting that. I would love to hear more demos of the
bintic being used as a filter -- especially with complex sounds such
as voice and instrument samples.

I noticed that your version is different from the Bridechamber
version, and does not have an input level knob for the filter.
That's one thing that annoys the hell out of me with the MOTM-490.
Anyway, it does illustrate that many different configurations are
possible. Which outputs from the counter did you choose for sub 1 -
4?? I'd like to hear about what other UI choices people have made.

On 4/14/07, Scott Deyo put forth:
>I just thought people would use expo FM more, and it would be a pain to
>have to patch a mixer each time.

I agree that would be a pain, but at least it's a possible work
around. I would have thought that linear FM would be more useful
since, afaik, in the MOTM system the envelopes are exponential (and
the VCA's are linear). I guess the linear input could still be used,
but it would just be labeled a bit wrong. Alternatively, a switch
could be added.

> > I had thought about that. Apparently the clock input is driven by
> > negative going edges. So I wonder if the duty cycle of the clock
> > were something other than 50% -- or even if its pulse width was
> > modulated -- so that the intervals charging and discharging the
> > capacitors varied, then would that effect the sound of the filter??
>
>Good question. Try it and let us know ;)

Perhaps someone who has the Electronotes (which might explain it) or
a better understanding of the math involved might know. In deciding
whether it would be a useful modification, the question is whether or
not filters could be produced by varying the pulse width that could
not be produced by varying the VCO frequency or some other parameter.
Even if I knew how to set up a valid experiment, I don't have the
equipment necessary to perform such a test.

Anyway, now that the error in the schematic for the comparator section
the VCO output daughterboard has been figured out, where does the
560K with the down-pointing arrow go??

On 4/14/07, Jason Proctor put forth:
>LT1013 is another good fast rail-safe opamp. MOTM standard for CV
>processing etc.

The LT1013 is very accurate for DC voltages, but it is slow compared
to a TL072, OP275, etc.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> On 4/14/07, Richard Brewster put forth:
>
>> As I mentioned last week, I patched up a demo of the Bi-N-Tic Filter to
>> show how it can work nicely as a VCO. Go here to listen to it.
>>
>> http://www.pugix.com/bottom-cabinet-lower.htm#cgsbintic
>>
>> bi-n-tic-vcf-vco.mp3 <http://www.pugix.com/music/bi-n-tic-vcf-vco.mp3>
>>
>
> Thank you for posting that. I would love to hear more demos of the
> bintic being used as a filter -- especially with complex sounds such
> as voice and instrument samples.
>
> I noticed that your version is different from the Bridechamber
> version, and does not have an input level knob for the filter.
> That's one thing that annoys the hell out of me with the MOTM-490.
> Anyway, it does illustrate that many different configurations are
> possible. Which outputs from the counter did you choose for sub 1 -
> 4?? I'd like to hear about what other UI choices people have made.
>
>

On Nov 28, 2008, at 9:54 PM, casperelectronics wrote:

> Hey Scott,
> I want to add the wave outputs on my bintic filter but I can't find
> the info.
> Do you sell daughter boards/ host schematics for that on your site??
> Thanks!
> -pete
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>Hello everyone.
>Sorry to continue the Bi-N-Tic questions. I know there have been a
>lot and I've read them all and I still have a few more.
>I think I got the whole thing working right but I'm not sure, it's a
>weird module (as I'm sure you'll all agree)
>The way it is working now it is really two modules, a filter and a
>VCO, but I don't see (or hear) much connection between the two.
>
> If I turn the coarse and fine tune knobs all the way down, there is
>no oscillator.
>Then if I feed a signal in the IN jack i can get some really nice
>filter cut sweeps using the BANDWIDTH knob and resonance using the
>DAMPER knob. The whole filter sweep is in the last 20% of turn of
>the bandwidth knob.
> As I turn UP the coarse tune, a square osc, mixes into the signal.
>It doesn't effect the filter, it just mixes into the audio path.
>When I turn it up almost beyond the audio range, the osc suddenly
>cuts off.
> Anyway.. maybe this is just how it works? I'd like to talk to
>someone who has built one or two of these so that I know if I should
>work on it some more.
>I really wish there was some kind of CV for filter cut. Am I missing
>something?
>Thanks!!!!
>-pete
>
>
>
>
>
>On Nov 28, 2008, at 9:54 PM, casperelectronics wrote:
>
>> Hey Scott,
>> I want to add the wave outputs on my bintic filter but I can't find
>> the info.
>> Do you sell daughter boards/ host schematics for that on your site??
>> Thanks!
>> -pete
>>
>>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>The CGS Modular Synth home page: http://www.cgs.synth.net/
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

> Hello everyone.
> Sorry to continue the Bi-N-Tic questions. I know there have been a
> lot and I've read them all and I still have a few more.
> I think I got the whole thing working right but I'm not sure, it's a
> weird module (as I'm sure you'll all agree)
> The way it is working now it is really two modules, a filter and a
> VCO, but I don't see (or hear) much connection between the two.
>
> If I turn the coarse and fine tune knobs all the way down, there is
> no oscillator.
> Then if I feed a signal in the IN jack i can get some really nice
> filter cut sweeps using the BANDWIDTH knob and resonance using the
> DAMPER knob. The whole filter sweep is in the last 20% of turn of
> the bandwidth knob.
> As I turn UP the coarse tune, a square osc, mixes into the signal.
> It doesn't effect the filter, it just mixes into the audio path.
> When I turn it up almost beyond the audio range, the osc suddenly
> cuts off.
> Anyway.. maybe this is just how it works? I'd like to talk to
> someone who has built one or two of these so that I know if I should
> work on it some more.
> I really wish there was some kind of CV for filter cut. Am I missing
> something?
> Thanks!!!!
> -pete
>
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 28, 2008, at 9:54 PM, casperelectronics wrote:
>
>
>> Hey Scott,
>> I want to add the wave outputs on my bintic filter but I can't find
>> the info.
>> Do you sell daughter boards/ host schematics for that on your site??
>> Thanks!
>> -pete
>>
>>
>>

On Nov 28, 2008, at 8:54 PM, casperelectronics wrote:

> Hey Scott,
> I want to add the wave outputs on my bintic filter but I can't find
> the info.
> Do you sell daughter boards/ host schematics for that on your site??
> Thanks!
> -pete
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com, casperelectronics <pete@...> wrote:
>
> Hello everyone.
> Sorry to continue the Bi-N-Tic questions. I know there have been a
> lot and I've read them all and I still have a few more.
> I think I got the whole thing working right but I'm not sure, it's a
> weird module (as I'm sure you'll all agree)
> The way it is working now it is really two modules, a filter and a
> VCO, but I don't see (or hear) much connection between the two.
>
> If I turn the coarse and fine tune knobs all the way down, there is
> no oscillator.
> Then if I feed a signal in the IN jack i can get some really nice
> filter cut sweeps using the BANDWIDTH knob and resonance using the
> DAMPER knob. The whole filter sweep is in the last 20% of turn of
> the bandwidth knob.
> As I turn UP the coarse tune, a square osc, mixes into the signal.
> It doesn't effect the filter, it just mixes into the audio path.
> When I turn it up almost beyond the audio range, the osc suddenly
> cuts off.
> Anyway.. maybe this is just how it works? I'd like to talk to
> someone who has built one or two of these so that I know if I should
> work on it some more.
> I really wish there was some kind of CV for filter cut. Am I missing
> something?
> Thanks!!!!
> -pete
>
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 28, 2008, at 9:54 PM, casperelectronics wrote:
>
> > Hey Scott,
> > I want to add the wave outputs on my bintic filter but I can't find
> > the info.
> > Do you sell daughter boards/ host schematics for that on your site??
> > Thanks!
> > -pete
> >
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

On Dec 1, 2008, at 4:07 AM, andrewlistmayer wrote:

> Mine isn`t working properly either, but based on what you said I`m
> 99.9999% sure your isn`t either. The VCO is supposed to clock the
> filter, so the frequency of the filter changes with it. When the
> filter receives no clock from the VCO, it seems to lock to a fixed
> frequency which is below the audible range. Mine did this before I
> fixed the VCO. The reason you get a filter sweep in the last 20% of
> the bandwidth knob is because you are simply increasing the band large
> enough to let some audio through, while the center point still sits in
> the sub audio range, so it`s acting like a normal lowpass filter. At
> least that`s how I interpreted it when my VCO wasn`t working.
>
> Now, the VCO leaking through into the audio without clocking the
> filter, that`s a new one to me. I`m no expert at this, so all I can
> say is that it`s clear your filter and VCO are working, so your
> problem mostly likely lies in the circuitry that is supposed to make
> them work together. The filter is clocked by 3 outputs of the 4024, so
> I`d check around there. Good luck.
>
> --- In cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com, casperelectronics <pete@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hello everyone.
> > Sorry to continue the Bi-N-Tic questions. I know there have been a
> > lot and I've read them all and I still have a few more.
> > I think I got the whole thing working right but I'm not sure, it's a
> > weird module (as I'm sure you'll all agree)
> > The way it is working now it is really two modules, a filter and a
> > VCO, but I don't see (or hear) much connection between the two.
> >
> > If I turn the coarse and fine tune knobs all the way down, there is
> > no oscillator.
> > Then if I feed a signal in the IN jack i can get some really nice
> > filter cut sweeps using the BANDWIDTH knob and resonance using the
> > DAMPER knob. The whole filter sweep is in the last 20% of turn of
> > the bandwidth knob.
> > As I turn UP the coarse tune, a square osc, mixes into the signal.
> > It doesn't effect the filter, it just mixes into the audio path.
> > When I turn it up almost beyond the audio range, the osc suddenly
> > cuts off.
> > Anyway.. maybe this is just how it works? I'd like to talk to
> > someone who has built one or two of these so that I know if I should
> > work on it some more.
> > I really wish there was some kind of CV for filter cut. Am I missing
> > something?
> > Thanks!!!!
> > -pete
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Nov 28, 2008, at 9:54 PM, casperelectronics wrote:
> >
> > > Hey Scott,
> > > I want to add the wave outputs on my bintic filter but I can't
> find
> > > the info.
> > > Do you sell daughter boards/ host schematics for that on your
> site??
> > > Thanks!
> > > -pete
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com, casperelectronics <pete@...> wrote:
>
> Hey,
> thanks for the response! I discovered a huge problem. Somehow one of
> the traces on the board was cut and there was no ground connection to
> the 4051s or the 4024. Connecting fixed a few issues but had no
> noticeable effect on the VCO leak through problem.
> I checked the outs of the 4024 and I'm getting 3 clean square waves.
> One strange issue is that the VCO cuts off, just stops running at a
> high frequency ALMOST out of the audible range.
> When you turn it up to a certain point it cuts very noisy then just
> cuts off.
> Plus As I mentioned a bunch of times, I'm still getting strong bleed
> through.
> I've replaced every chip except the CA3140. I don't have a
> replacement for that. Could that be responsible for my cutoff problem?
> -pete
>
> On Dec 1, 2008, at 4:07 AM, andrewlistmayer wrote:
>
> > Mine isn`t working properly either, but based on what you said I`m
> > 99.9999% sure your isn`t either. The VCO is supposed to clock the
> > filter, so the frequency of the filter changes with it. When the
> > filter receives no clock from the VCO, it seems to lock to a fixed
> > frequency which is below the audible range. Mine did this before I
> > fixed the VCO. The reason you get a filter sweep in the last 20% of
> > the bandwidth knob is because you are simply increasing the band large
> > enough to let some audio through, while the center point still sits in
> > the sub audio range, so it`s acting like a normal lowpass filter. At
> > least that`s how I interpreted it when my VCO wasn`t working.
> >
> > Now, the VCO leaking through into the audio without clocking the
> > filter, that`s a new one to me. I`m no expert at this, so all I can
> > say is that it`s clear your filter and VCO are working, so your
> > problem mostly likely lies in the circuitry that is supposed to make
> > them work together. The filter is clocked by 3 outputs of the 4024, so
> > I`d check around there. Good luck.
> >
> > --- In cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com, casperelectronics <pete@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello everyone.
> > > Sorry to continue the Bi-N-Tic questions. I know there have been a
> > > lot and I've read them all and I still have a few more.
> > > I think I got the whole thing working right but I'm not sure, it's a
> > > weird module (as I'm sure you'll all agree)
> > > The way it is working now it is really two modules, a filter and a
> > > VCO, but I don't see (or hear) much connection between the two.
> > >
> > > If I turn the coarse and fine tune knobs all the way down, there is
> > > no oscillator.
> > > Then if I feed a signal in the IN jack i can get some really nice
> > > filter cut sweeps using the BANDWIDTH knob and resonance using the
> > > DAMPER knob. The whole filter sweep is in the last 20% of turn of
> > > the bandwidth knob.
> > > As I turn UP the coarse tune, a square osc, mixes into the signal.
> > > It doesn't effect the filter, it just mixes into the audio path.
> > > When I turn it up almost beyond the audio range, the osc suddenly
> > > cuts off.
> > > Anyway.. maybe this is just how it works? I'd like to talk to
> > > someone who has built one or two of these so that I know if I should
> > > work on it some more.
> > > I really wish there was some kind of CV for filter cut. Am I missing
> > > something?
> > > Thanks!!!!
> > > -pete
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Nov 28, 2008, at 9:54 PM, casperelectronics wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hey Scott,
> > > > I want to add the wave outputs on my bintic filter but I can't
> > find
> > > > the info.
> > > > Do you sell daughter boards/ host schematics for that on your
> > site??
> > > > Thanks!
> > > > -pete
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

>I'm not too sure if the 3140 would be causing your problem, but I
>wouldn't expect so. If you are getting 3 clean square waves from the
>4024, but they are not clocking the filter, I'd check the 4051's.
>About the bleeding problem, maybe try removing the 4051's and 4024 and
>see if it persists? just to try to get a better idea of where it's
>coming from.
>
>Just curious, how low does the pitch of the VCO go then fully CCW? I
>have much the same problem on mine, where it goes up to the high audio
>range then cuts out, however it DOES clock the filter and doesn't
>bleed through. The minimum pitch I can get is fairly high, too.
>
>
>--- In cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com, casperelectronics <pete@...> wrote:
>>
>> Hey,
>> thanks for the response! I discovered a huge problem. Somehow one of
>> the traces on the board was cut and there was no ground connection to
>> the 4051s or the 4024. Connecting fixed a few issues but had no
>> noticeable effect on the VCO leak through problem.
>> I checked the outs of the 4024 and I'm getting 3 clean square waves.
>> One strange issue is that the VCO cuts off, just stops running at a
>> high frequency ALMOST out of the audible range.
>> When you turn it up to a certain point it cuts very noisy then just
>> cuts off.
>> Plus As I mentioned a bunch of times, I'm still getting strong bleed
>> through.
>> I've replaced every chip except the CA3140. I don't have a
>> replacement for that. Could that be responsible for my cutoff problem?
>> -pete
>>
>> On Dec 1, 2008, at 4:07 AM, andrewlistmayer wrote:
>>
>> > Mine isn`t working properly either, but based on what you said I`m
>> > 99.9999% sure your isn`t either. The VCO is supposed to clock the
>> > filter, so the frequency of the filter changes with it. When the
>> > filter receives no clock from the VCO, it seems to lock to a fixed
>> > frequency which is below the audible range. Mine did this before I
>> > fixed the VCO. The reason you get a filter sweep in the last 20% of
>> > the bandwidth knob is because you are simply increasing the band large
>> > enough to let some audio through, while the center point still sits in
>> > the sub audio range, so it`s acting like a normal lowpass filter. At
>> > least that`s how I interpreted it when my VCO wasn`t working.
>> >
>> > Now, the VCO leaking through into the audio without clocking the
>> > filter, that`s a new one to me. I`m no expert at this, so all I can
>> > say is that it`s clear your filter and VCO are working, so your
>> > problem mostly likely lies in the circuitry that is supposed to make
>> > them work together. The filter is clocked by 3 outputs of the 4024, so
>> > I`d check around there. Good luck.
>> >
>> > --- In cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com, casperelectronics <pete@> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Hello everyone.
>> > > Sorry to continue the Bi-N-Tic questions. I know there have been a
>> > > lot and I've read them all and I still have a few more.
>> > > I think I got the whole thing working right but I'm not sure, it's a
>> > > weird module (as I'm sure you'll all agree)
>> > > The way it is working now it is really two modules, a filter and a
>> > > VCO, but I don't see (or hear) much connection between the two.
>> > >
>> > > If I turn the coarse and fine tune knobs all the way down, there is
>> > > no oscillator.
>> > > Then if I feed a signal in the IN jack i can get some really nice
>> > > filter cut sweeps using the BANDWIDTH knob and resonance using the
>> > > DAMPER knob. The whole filter sweep is in the last 20% of turn of
>> > > the bandwidth knob.
>> > > As I turn UP the coarse tune, a square osc, mixes into the signal.
>> > > It doesn't effect the filter, it just mixes into the audio path.
>> > > When I turn it up almost beyond the audio range, the osc suddenly
>> > > cuts off.
>> > > Anyway.. maybe this is just how it works? I'd like to talk to
>> > > someone who has built one or two of these so that I know if I should
>> > > work on it some more.
>> > > I really wish there was some kind of CV for filter cut. Am I missing
>> > > something?
>> > > Thanks!!!!
>> > > -pete
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Nov 28, 2008, at 9:54 PM, casperelectronics wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Hey Scott,
>> > > > I want to add the wave outputs on my bintic filter but I can't
>> > find
>> > > > the info.
>> > > > Do you sell daughter boards/ host schematics for that on your
>> > site??
>> > > > Thanks!
>> > > > -pete
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>The CGS Modular Synth home page: http://www.cgs.synth.net/
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

On Dec 3, 2008, at 3:11 AM, sasami@... wrote:

> Any clocking issue usually relates to the transistor/capacitor
> coupling
> between the VCO and the counter. If the VCO continues up after the
> filter
> stops, look there. Make sure you are not using one of the ancient
> prototype
> boards! I made the mistake of giving a few away, and they keep on
> coming
> back to haunt me.
>
> >I'm not too sure if the 3140 would be causing your problem, but I
> >wouldn't expect so. If you are getting 3 clean square waves from the
> >4024, but they are not clocking the filter, I'd check the 4051's.
> >About the bleeding problem, maybe try removing the 4051's and 4024
> and
> >see if it persists? just to try to get a better idea of where it's
> >coming from.
> >
> >Just curious, how low does the pitch of the VCO go then fully CCW? I
> >have much the same problem on mine, where it goes up to the high
> audio
> >range then cuts out, however it DOES clock the filter and doesn't
> >bleed through. The minimum pitch I can get is fairly high, too.
> >
> >
> >--- In cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com, casperelectronics <pete@...> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hey,
> >> thanks for the response! I discovered a huge problem. Somehow
> one of
> >> the traces on the board was cut and there was no ground
> connection to
> >> the 4051s or the 4024. Connecting fixed a few issues but had no
> >> noticeable effect on the VCO leak through problem.
> >> I checked the outs of the 4024 and I'm getting 3 clean square
> waves.
> >> One strange issue is that the VCO cuts off, just stops running at a
> >> high frequency ALMOST out of the audible range.
> >> When you turn it up to a certain point it cuts very noisy then just
> >> cuts off.
> >> Plus As I mentioned a bunch of times, I'm still getting strong
> bleed
> >> through.
> >> I've replaced every chip except the CA3140. I don't have a
> >> replacement for that. Could that be responsible for my cutoff
> problem?
> >> -pete
> >>
> >> On Dec 1, 2008, at 4:07 AM, andrewlistmayer wrote:
> >>
> >> > Mine isn`t working properly either, but based on what you said
> I`m
> >> > 99.9999% sure your isn`t either. The VCO is supposed to clock the
> >> > filter, so the frequency of the filter changes with it. When the
> >> > filter receives no clock from the VCO, it seems to lock to a
> fixed
> >> > frequency which is below the audible range. Mine did this
> before I
> >> > fixed the VCO. The reason you get a filter sweep in the last
> 20% of
> >> > the bandwidth knob is because you are simply increasing the
> band large
> >> > enough to let some audio through, while the center point still
> sits in
> >> > the sub audio range, so it`s acting like a normal lowpass
> filter. At
> >> > least that`s how I interpreted it when my VCO wasn`t working.
> >> >
> >> > Now, the VCO leaking through into the audio without clocking the
> >> > filter, that`s a new one to me. I`m no expert at this, so all
> I can
> >> > say is that it`s clear your filter and VCO are working, so your
> >> > problem mostly likely lies in the circuitry that is supposed
> to make
> >> > them work together. The filter is clocked by 3 outputs of the
> 4024, so
> >> > I`d check around there. Good luck.
> >> >
> >> > --- In cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com, casperelectronics <pete@>
> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > Hello everyone.
> >> > > Sorry to continue the Bi-N-Tic questions. I know there have
> been a
> >> > > lot and I've read them all and I still have a few more.
> >> > > I think I got the whole thing working right but I'm not
> sure, it's a
> >> > > weird module (as I'm sure you'll all agree)
> >> > > The way it is working now it is really two modules, a filter
> and a
> >> > > VCO, but I don't see (or hear) much connection between the two.
> >> > >
> >> > > If I turn the coarse and fine tune knobs all the way down,
> there is
> >> > > no oscillator.
> >> > > Then if I feed a signal in the IN jack i can get some really
> nice
> >> > > filter cut sweeps using the BANDWIDTH knob and resonance
> using the
> >> > > DAMPER knob. The whole filter sweep is in the last 20% of
> turn of
> >> > > the bandwidth knob.
> >> > > As I turn UP the coarse tune, a square osc, mixes into the
> signal.
> >> > > It doesn't effect the filter, it just mixes into the audio
> path.
> >> > > When I turn it up almost beyond the audio range, the osc
> suddenly
> >> > > cuts off.
> >> > > Anyway.. maybe this is just how it works? I'd like to talk to
> >> > > someone who has built one or two of these so that I know if
> I should
> >> > > work on it some more.
> >> > > I really wish there was some kind of CV for filter cut. Am I
> missing
> >> > > something?
> >> > > Thanks!!!!
> >> > > -pete
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > On Nov 28, 2008, at 9:54 PM, casperelectronics wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > > Hey Scott,
> >> > > > I want to add the wave outputs on my bintic filter but I
> can't
> >> > find
> >> > > > the info.
> >> > > > Do you sell daughter boards/ host schematics for that on your
> >> > site??
> >> > > > Thanks!
> >> > > > -pete
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------
> >
> >The CGS Modular Synth home page: http://www.cgs.synth.net/
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> __________________________________________________________
> Ken Stone sasami@... otherunicorn@...
> Modular Synth PCBs for sale <http://www.cgs.synth.net/>
> Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/
> ~sasami/>
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Dec 3, 2008, at 2:00 AM, andrewlistmayer wrote:

> I'm not too sure if the 3140 would be causing your problem, but I
> wouldn't expect so. If you are getting 3 clean square waves from the
> 4024, but they are not clocking the filter, I'd check the 4051's.
> About the bleeding problem, maybe try removing the 4051's and 4024 and
> see if it persists? just to try to get a better idea of where it's
> coming from.
>
> Just curious, how low does the pitch of the VCO go then fully CCW? I
> have much the same problem on mine, where it goes up to the high audio
> range then cuts out, however it DOES clock the filter and doesn't
> bleed through. The minimum pitch I can get is fairly high, too.
>
> --- In cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com, casperelectronics <pete@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hey,
> > thanks for the response! I discovered a huge problem. Somehow one of
> > the traces on the board was cut and there was no ground
> connection to
> > the 4051s or the 4024. Connecting fixed a few issues but had no
> > noticeable effect on the VCO leak through problem.
> > I checked the outs of the 4024 and I'm getting 3 clean square waves.
> > One strange issue is that the VCO cuts off, just stops running at a
> > high frequency ALMOST out of the audible range.
> > When you turn it up to a certain point it cuts very noisy then just
> > cuts off.
> > Plus As I mentioned a bunch of times, I'm still getting strong bleed
> > through.
> > I've replaced every chip except the CA3140. I don't have a
> > replacement for that. Could that be responsible for my cutoff
> problem?
> > -pete
> >
> > On Dec 1, 2008, at 4:07 AM, andrewlistmayer wrote:
> >
> > > Mine isn`t working properly either, but based on what you said I`m
> > > 99.9999% sure your isn`t either. The VCO is supposed to clock the
> > > filter, so the frequency of the filter changes with it. When the
> > > filter receives no clock from the VCO, it seems to lock to a fixed
> > > frequency which is below the audible range. Mine did this before I
> > > fixed the VCO. The reason you get a filter sweep in the last
> 20% of
> > > the bandwidth knob is because you are simply increasing the
> band large
> > > enough to let some audio through, while the center point still
> sits in
> > > the sub audio range, so it`s acting like a normal lowpass
> filter. At
> > > least that`s how I interpreted it when my VCO wasn`t working.
> > >
> > > Now, the VCO leaking through into the audio without clocking the
> > > filter, that`s a new one to me. I`m no expert at this, so all I
> can
> > > say is that it`s clear your filter and VCO are working, so your
> > > problem mostly likely lies in the circuitry that is supposed to
> make
> > > them work together. The filter is clocked by 3 outputs of the
> 4024, so
> > > I`d check around there. Good luck.
> > >
> > > --- In cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com, casperelectronics <pete@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hello everyone.
> > > > Sorry to continue the Bi-N-Tic questions. I know there have
> been a
> > > > lot and I've read them all and I still have a few more.
> > > > I think I got the whole thing working right but I'm not sure,
> it's a
> > > > weird module (as I'm sure you'll all agree)
> > > > The way it is working now it is really two modules, a filter
> and a
> > > > VCO, but I don't see (or hear) much connection between the two.
> > > >
> > > > If I turn the coarse and fine tune knobs all the way down,
> there is
> > > > no oscillator.
> > > > Then if I feed a signal in the IN jack i can get some really
> nice
> > > > filter cut sweeps using the BANDWIDTH knob and resonance
> using the
> > > > DAMPER knob. The whole filter sweep is in the last 20% of
> turn of
> > > > the bandwidth knob.
> > > > As I turn UP the coarse tune, a square osc, mixes into the
> signal.
> > > > It doesn't effect the filter, it just mixes into the audio path.
> > > > When I turn it up almost beyond the audio range, the osc
> suddenly
> > > > cuts off.
> > > > Anyway.. maybe this is just how it works? I'd like to talk to
> > > > someone who has built one or two of these so that I know if I
> should
> > > > work on it some more.
> > > > I really wish there was some kind of CV for filter cut. Am I
> missing
> > > > something?
> > > > Thanks!!!!
> > > > -pete
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Nov 28, 2008, at 9:54 PM, casperelectronics wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hey Scott,
> > > > > I want to add the wave outputs on my bintic filter but I can't
> > > find
> > > > > the info.
> > > > > Do you sell daughter boards/ host schematics for that on your
> > > site??
> > > > > Thanks!
> > > > > -pete
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Dec 1, 2008, at 12:44 PM, casperelectronics wrote:

> Hey,
> thanks for the response! I discovered a huge problem. Somehow one of
> the traces on the board was cut and there was no ground connection to
> the 4051s or the 4024. Connecting fixed a few issues but had no
> noticeable effect on the VCO leak through problem.
> I checked the outs of the 4024 and I'm getting 3 clean square waves.
> One strange issue is that the VCO cuts off, just stops running at a
> high frequency ALMOST out of the audible range.
> When you turn it up to a certain point it cuts very noisy then just
> cuts off.
> Plus As I mentioned a bunch of times, I'm still getting strong bleed
> through.
> I've replaced every chip except the CA3140. I don't have a
> replacement for that. Could that be responsible for my cutoff problem?
> -pete
>
> On Dec 1, 2008, at 4:07 AM, andrewlistmayer wrote:
>
> > Mine isn`t working properly either, but based on what you said I`m
> > 99.9999% sure your isn`t either. The VCO is supposed to clock the
> > filter, so the frequency of the filter changes with it. When the
> > filter receives no clock from the VCO, it seems to lock to a fixed
> > frequency which is below the audible range. Mine did this before I
> > fixed the VCO. The reason you get a filter sweep in the last 20% of
> > the bandwidth knob is because you are simply increasing the band
> large
> > enough to let some audio through, while the center point still sits
> in
> > the sub audio range, so it`s acting like a normal lowpass filter. At
> > least that`s how I interpreted it when my VCO wasn`t working.
> >
> > Now, the VCO leaking through into the audio without clocking the
> > filter, that`s a new one to me. I`m no expert at this, so all I can
> > say is that it`s clear your filter and VCO are working, so your
> > problem mostly likely lies in the circuitry that is supposed to make
> > them work together. The filter is clocked by 3 outputs of the 4024,
> so
> > I`d check around there. Good luck.
> >
> > --- In cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com, casperelectronics <pete@...>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello everyone.
> > > Sorry to continue the Bi-N-Tic questions. I know there have been a
> > > lot and I've read them all and I still have a few more.
> > > I think I got the whole thing working right but I'm not sure,
> it's a
> > > weird module (as I'm sure you'll all agree)
> > > The way it is working now it is really two modules, a filter and a
> > > VCO, but I don't see (or hear) much connection between the two.
> > >
> > > If I turn the coarse and fine tune knobs all the way down, there
> is
> > > no oscillator.
> > > Then if I feed a signal in the IN jack i can get some really nice
> > > filter cut sweeps using the BANDWIDTH knob and resonance using the
> > > DAMPER knob. The whole filter sweep is in the last 20% of turn of
> > > the bandwidth knob.
> > > As I turn UP the coarse tune, a square osc, mixes into the signal.
> > > It doesn't effect the filter, it just mixes into the audio path.
> > > When I turn it up almost beyond the audio range, the osc suddenly
> > > cuts off.
> > > Anyway.. maybe this is just how it works? I'd like to talk to
> > > someone who has built one or two of these so that I know if I
> should
> > > work on it some more.
> > > I really wish there was some kind of CV for filter cut. Am I
> missing
> > > something?
> > > Thanks!!!!
> > > -pete
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Nov 28, 2008, at 9:54 PM, casperelectronics wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hey Scott,
> > > > I want to add the wave outputs on my bintic filter but I can't
> > find
> > > > the info.
> > > > Do you sell daughter boards/ host schematics for that on your
> > site??
> > > > Thanks!
> > > > -pete
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Dec 1, 2008, at 8:57 PM, Scott Deyo wrote:

> Did you connect pins 1 and 4 of the 311? There's a note on the PCB
> page, but if you're like me you may have missed it.
> This only applies to the Bridechamber version of the PCB, by the way.
>
> Neither of you burned out your polystyrene cap, did you? I've done
> that
> twice lately.
>
> Scott Deyo
> The Bridechamber
> contact@...
> http://www.bridechamber.com
> Jealous Edison Record Kompany
> http://www.jealousedison.com
>
> On Dec 1, 2008, at 12:44 PM, casperelectronics wrote:
>
> > Hey,
> > thanks for the response! I discovered a huge problem. Somehow one of
> > the traces on the board was cut and there was no ground
> connection to
> > the 4051s or the 4024. Connecting fixed a few issues but had no
> > noticeable effect on the VCO leak through problem.
> > I checked the outs of the 4024 and I'm getting 3 clean square waves.
> > One strange issue is that the VCO cuts off, just stops running at a
> > high frequency ALMOST out of the audible range.
> > When you turn it up to a certain point it cuts very noisy then just
> > cuts off.
> > Plus As I mentioned a bunch of times, I'm still getting strong bleed
> > through.
> > I've replaced every chip except the CA3140. I don't have a
> > replacement for that. Could that be responsible for my cutoff
> problem?
> > -pete
> >
> > On Dec 1, 2008, at 4:07 AM, andrewlistmayer wrote:
> >
> > > Mine isn`t working properly either, but based on what you said I`m
> > > 99.9999% sure your isn`t either. The VCO is supposed to clock the
> > > filter, so the frequency of the filter changes with it. When the
> > > filter receives no clock from the VCO, it seems to lock to a fixed
> > > frequency which is below the audible range. Mine did this before I
> > > fixed the VCO. The reason you get a filter sweep in the last
> 20% of
> > > the bandwidth knob is because you are simply increasing the band
> > large
> > > enough to let some audio through, while the center point still
> sits
> > in
> > > the sub audio range, so it`s acting like a normal lowpass
> filter. At
> > > least that`s how I interpreted it when my VCO wasn`t working.
> > >
> > > Now, the VCO leaking through into the audio without clocking the
> > > filter, that`s a new one to me. I`m no expert at this, so all I
> can
> > > say is that it`s clear your filter and VCO are working, so your
> > > problem mostly likely lies in the circuitry that is supposed to
> make
> > > them work together. The filter is clocked by 3 outputs of the
> 4024,
> > so
> > > I`d check around there. Good luck.
> > >
> > > --- In cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com, casperelectronics <pete@...>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hello everyone.
> > > > Sorry to continue the Bi-N-Tic questions. I know there have
> been a
> > > > lot and I've read them all and I still have a few more.
> > > > I think I got the whole thing working right but I'm not sure,
> > it's a
> > > > weird module (as I'm sure you'll all agree)
> > > > The way it is working now it is really two modules, a filter
> and a
> > > > VCO, but I don't see (or hear) much connection between the two.
> > > >
> > > > If I turn the coarse and fine tune knobs all the way down, there
> > is
> > > > no oscillator.
> > > > Then if I feed a signal in the IN jack i can get some really
> nice
> > > > filter cut sweeps using the BANDWIDTH knob and resonance
> using the
> > > > DAMPER knob. The whole filter sweep is in the last 20% of
> turn of
> > > > the bandwidth knob.
> > > > As I turn UP the coarse tune, a square osc, mixes into the
> signal.
> > > > It doesn't effect the filter, it just mixes into the audio path.
> > > > When I turn it up almost beyond the audio range, the osc
> suddenly
> > > > cuts off.
> > > > Anyway.. maybe this is just how it works? I'd like to talk to
> > > > someone who has built one or two of these so that I know if I
> > should
> > > > work on it some more.
> > > > I really wish there was some kind of CV for filter cut. Am I
> > missing
> > > > something?
> > > > Thanks!!!!
> > > > -pete
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Nov 28, 2008, at 9:54 PM, casperelectronics wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hey Scott,
> > > > > I want to add the wave outputs on my bintic filter but I can't
> > > find
> > > > > the info.
> > > > > Do you sell daughter boards/ host schematics for that on your
> > > site??
> > > > > Thanks!
> > > > > -pete
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]