Vintage Simmons Drums (UK) Users Group

Hi, Some years ago I was given a schematic for the SDS9.  

On a vintage synth forum, someone is asking for a SDS9  schematic - I can't find the conversation on here that went with it so does anyone on here know if it's OK to pass on as I can't remember if there were any conditions attached.

Cheers

I've been looking for a copy of the schematic for ages. despite trawling the depths of google and sending unsolicited emails begging for a copy...

It seems to be a hard thing to come by.

Ewan.

 

Hi, In the absence of any complaints, I'll pass it on. I  can't find a way off attaching through Yahoo's weird system but have found you on FB I believe- chainsaw juggling?  Let me know & will pm you a copy.  Also can recommend the vintage synth repair group.

Yep, thats me, my day job is juggling chainsaws, its a dirty job, but someone had to do it.

Send me a PM on facebook, that's perfect!

If nobody complains i'll upload it to The files area.

Thanks!

Ewan.

Actually you could just email it to me. That's probably easiest.

I think The reason there was a doubt about passing around The schematics was that this was a reverse engineered schematic that somebody made (can't remember his name, but there are messages in the group archives) spending a lot of time and effort, with a tester and an osciliscope.

In the past he had preferred to pass it around privately rather than posting it on the web for all to see,  sell as bad printouts on eBay,  put on those horrible websites which try to sell you service manuals, etc.

Which is perfectly OK, It must have taken ages to do and I can understand his reasons. but unfortunately he's not around anymore so we can't ask him for a copy.

There's also an original Simmons schematic too, but it apparently has errors. I'm not sure why this one has never found its way onto the web though.

I'm really looking forward to seeing it......

Ewan.

 

I think The reason there was a doubt about passing around The schematics was that this was a reverse engineered schematic that somebody made (can't remember his name, but there are messages in the group archives) spending a lot of time and effort, with a tester and an osciliscope.

In the past he had preferred to pass it around privately rather than posting it on the web for all to see,  sell as bad printouts on eBay,  put on those horrible websites which try to sell you service manuals, etc.

Which is perfectly OK, It must have taken ages to do and I can understand his reasons. but unfortunately he's not around anymore so we can't ask him for a copy.

There's also an original Simmons schematic too, but it apparently has errors. I'm not sure why this one has never found its way onto the web though.

I'm really looking forward to seeing it......

Ewan.

On Jul 19, 2016 20:19, "Ed Driscoll jejune77@... [Simmons_Drums]" <Simmons_Drums@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Gents, 

The use of schematics to keep vintage gear functional is not a violation of ANY rights.  If you take them and recreate a device for commercial purposes, thats a possible violation of copyright and service mark.

I have the SDX schematics, as well as the number of a great tech.  Feel free to inquire.
Cheers.

On Tuesday, July 19, 2016, Ewan Colsell ewanuno@... [Simmons_Drums] <Simmons_Drums@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Actually you could just email it to me. That's probably easiest.

On 19 Jul 2016 12:55, "Ewan Colsell" <ewanuno@...> wrote:

Yep, thats me, my day job is juggling chainsaws, its a dirty job, but someone had to do it.

Send me a PM on facebook, that's perfect!

If nobody complains i'll upload it to The files area.

Thanks!

Ewan.

On Jul 17, 2016 23:03, "capnfishy@... [Simmons_Drums]" <Simmons_Drums@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Hi, In the absence of any complaints, I'll pass it on. I  can't find a way off attaching through Yahoo's weird system but have found you on FB I believe- chainsaw juggling?  Let me know & will pm you a copy.  Also can recommend the vintage synth repair group.

That's him! Thierry EPPHERRE, it must have taken ages, to do the PCB isn't exactly small or sparse.

I had sent him an email a few months back but no response, I tried again this week but nothing yet.

Has anyone had any contact with him recently? he might just be too busy. Its easy to have a life outside of the internet....

Ewan.

Patrice, reading your text and looking at domain name your mail are sent from seems somewhat ironic J

From collectors point of view one could argue that the original schematics are more valuable than the SDX itself, as it most likely are more rare. Therefore it should never ever be copied as it could hurt the collector value J

But my serious thoughts on the matter. To my knowledge Dave are no longer here to collect on the intellectual property of these schematics. Nor do the new brand name owner actively supporting any of the old gear. I don’t know if they actually own any rights other than the name? And to my knowledge there are no longer any legal patented design luring inside these papers. Therefore normal copyrights for printed/ published content would apply.

Which mean that we are not allowed to sell copies of our version of the schematics. Which in practical terms means any faulty SDX is a brick if one not already have access to the schematic as Dave won’t respond to sell you a copy.

However, in most countries in the world we will be allowed to lend our copy to anyone of our liking. And they can legally take copies for personal use.

Here in Norway a copy shop settled a case where they tried to help out students in a pinch. What they did were to copy a book that were out of print and sell it at normal copy price, as if the students met up in the shop and copied it them self. What initially gave them trouble where they for practical reason had them in stock (this before scan and print on demand where available).

Reason they got away with it where that the copy right holder had no plans to reprint the book and the university had made the bummer to include the book in the students required reading list for that semester. Low volume, for education reason only, no danger of repetition as university removed the requirement and practical thinking won the case.

So practical thinking applied. If one where to sell schematics for profit one could be in danger of being sued for money from copy right holder. If there are no money to be had then documented loss are to be taken into consideration. Personally I don’t think SDX have much to offer regarding hardware design worth copying these days of low cost DSP chips. Not really being a blockbuster movie I really doubt anyone interested in this schematic are able to hurt Simmons brand owner or Dave in an attempt to copy and sell this design. Interested parties either own a unit in need of repair, or are interested for education purposes. Both I personally think we should endorse to help keep an historic piece of electronic kit alive, and help educating members of the world can only make it better place for all of us moving on to an enlightening future.

Now, should we assume everyone have the time or even want to scan and upload 140 pages long manual for free? Of course not. Some members here and other forums that have access to these schematics make they living from repair jobs. Of course they should not work for free. Some of them even get so annoyed by these requests they stop they’re membership. Other learn to live with it course they benefit from those sharing to keep they own cost down and make better profits on the jobs they do get.

How many SDX jobs would a repair shop in 2017 expect to see over the next decade? Probably zero, other than the one sitting on the bench right now. All documentation cost has to go into this job alone.

Many repair shops would tell the customer schematic are not available, but they’re willing to take on the job if customer source it themselves. Shortcut to any ethical concern right? And a valid reason for many people joining mailing lists and forums with requests they normally wouldn’t attend.

So who are these requester for free Simmons schematics and sounds? Back in the day most of them probably where people making partial or all their livelihood from expensive tools like the SDS and SDX. Modern sounds and schematics had intellectual value that Dave used to put food on his table. That is not the case anymore.

These days most requests come from collectors, hobbyist and wannabees in a world where musicians rarely can make a living from recording music. Any high functional professional musician actually making money these days use a sampling library or simulator to create these vintage sounds.

My impression there are several contributing members on this list that have reservation regarding sharing publicly. If they lost business by sharing I can understand they hurt, but if that business where selling Simmons original sounds they’re morality is somewhat flawed if you ask me.

My practical take on this. I’ve enjoyed numerus free websites and schematics over the past two decades. Admittedly only a few of them had they’re Donate button pressed I early on got inspired to share back to the community when I could. I guess all of us have benefited from those that do share. In some cultures one owes to them to pass on what one learned, while others get insulted when one do as they claim intellectually property even when its origin are not their own.

So to you question Patrice, I guess to each his own https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/to_each_his_own  

I will bluntly take this opportunity to ask if anyone are willing share SDS7 original eprom BIN files with me?

I promise never to make a No.1 hit song using these sounds (or any other sound for that matter)

I promise I very rarely will use the sounds, they mostly have historic value to me, I few hours of fun for recreation purposes

I promise I never Share if not explicit allowed

I promise I never Publicly Share it if not explicit allowed

I promise If sharing is allowed I’ll give Credit Only if explicit Requested, else you will be Anonymous

Best regards

Hans

Still Not Working

>
>
> Patrice, reading your text and looking at domain name your mail are sent
> from seems somewhat ironic J
>
>
>
> From collectors point of view one could argue that the original
> schematics are more valuable than the SDX itself, as it most likely are
> more rare. Therefore it should never ever be copied as it could hurt the
> collector value J
>
>
>
> But my serious thoughts on the matter. To my knowledge Dave are no
> longer here to collect on the intellectual property of these schematics.
> Nor do the new brand name owner actively supporting any of the old gear.
> I don’t know if they actually own any rights other than the name? And to
> my knowledge there are no longer any legal patented design luring inside
> these papers. Therefore normal copyrights for printed/ published content
> would apply.
>
>
>
> Which mean that we are not allowed to sell copies of our version of the
> schematics. Which in practical terms means any faulty SDX is a brick if
> one not already have access to the schematic as Dave won’t respond to
> sell you a copy.
>
> However, in most countries in the world we will be allowed to lend our
> copy to anyone of our liking. And they can legally take copies for
> personal use.
>
>
>
> Here in Norway a copy shop settled a case where they tried to help out
> students in a pinch. What they did were to copy a book that were out of
> print and sell it at normal copy price, as if the students met up in the
> shop and copied it them self. What initially gave them trouble where
> they for practical reason had them in stock (this before scan and print
> on demand where available).
>
> Reason they got away with it where that the copy right holder had no
> plans to reprint the book and the university had made the bummer to
> include the book in the students required reading list for that
> semester. Low volume, for education reason only, no danger of repetition
> as university removed the requirement and practical thinking won the case.
>
>
>
> So practical thinking applied. If one where to sell schematics for
> profit one could be in danger of being sued for money from copy right
> holder. If there are no money to be had then documented loss are to be
> taken into consideration. Personally I don’t think SDX have much to
> offer regarding hardware design worth copying these days of low cost DSP
> chips. Not really being a blockbuster movie I really doubt anyone
> interested in this schematic are able to hurt Simmons brand owner or
> Dave in an attempt to copy and sell this design. Interested parties
> either own a unit in need of repair, or are interested for education
> purposes. Both I personally think we should endorse to help keep an
> historic piece of electronic kit alive, and help educating members of
> the world can only make it better place for all of us moving on to an
> enlightening future.
>
>
>
> Now, should we assume everyone have the time or even want to scan and
> upload 140 pages long manual for free? Of course not. Some members here
> and other forums that have access to these schematics make they living
> from repair jobs. Of course they should not work for free. Some of them
> even get so annoyed by these requests they stop they’re membership.
> Other learn to live with it course they benefit from those sharing to
> keep they own cost down and make better profits on the jobs they do get.
>
> How many SDX jobs would a repair shop in 2017 expect to see over the
> next decade? Probably zero, other than the one sitting on the bench
> right now. All documentation cost has to go into this job alone.
>
> Many repair shops would tell the customer schematic are not available,
> but they’re willing to take on the job if customer source it themselves.
> Shortcut to any ethical concern right? And a valid reason for many
> people joining mailing lists and forums with requests they normally
> wouldn’t attend.
>
>
>
> So who are these requester for free Simmons schematics and sounds? Back
> in the day most of them probably where people making partial or all
> their livelihood from expensive tools like the SDS and SDX. Modern
> sounds and schematics had intellectual value that Dave used to put food
> on his table. That is not the case anymore.
>
> These days most requests come from collectors, hobbyist and wannabees in
> a world where musicians rarely can make a living from recording music.
> Any high functional professional musician actually making money these
> days use a sampling library or simulator to create these vintage sounds.
>
>
>
> My impression there are several contributing members on this list that
> have reservation regarding sharing publicly. If they lost business by
> sharing I can understand they hurt, but if that business where selling
> Simmons original sounds they’re morality is somewhat flawed if you ask me.
>
>
>
> My practical take on this. I’ve enjoyed numerus free websites and
> schematics over the past two decades. Admittedly only a few of them had
> they’re Donate button pressed I early on got inspired to share back to
> the community when I could. I guess all of us have benefited from those
> that do share. In some cultures one owes to them to pass on what one
> learned, while others get insulted when one do as they claim
> intellectually property even when its origin are not their own.
>
>
>
> So to you question Patrice, I guess to each his own
> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/to_each_his_own
>
>
>
> I will bluntly take this opportunity to ask if anyone are willing share
> SDS7 original eprom BIN files with me?
>
> I promise never to make a No.1 hit song using these sounds (or any other
> sound for that matter)
>
> I promise I very rarely will use the sounds, they mostly have historic
> value to me, I few hours of fun for recreation purposes
>
> I promise I never Share if not explicit allowed
>
> I promise I never Publicly Share it if not explicit allowed
>
> I promise If sharing is allowed I’ll give Credit Only if explicit
> Requested, else you will be Anonymous
>
>
>
> Best regards
>
> Hans