Vintage Simmons Drums (UK) Users Group

 From: "vout@..." <vout@...>
To: Simmons_Drums@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 3:19 PM
Subject: [Simmons Drums] Memory backup batteries in Simmons gear
 

  
Hi,

I've recently had to repair several bits of Simmons kit including SDS6 and SDS7 units - these had both suffered from battery leaks, luckily not too severe. 

I think the original batteries were ni-cad and I am wondering what would be a suitable substitute type that does not leak. There are ni-mh, also li-ion types available, I think some other type as well. 

My knowledge of battery technology is practically zero, so looking for some informed opinion here. I was intending to use ni-mh batteries, would that be ok?

Cheers, vout


 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> Hi,
> 
> I've recently had to repair several bits of Simmons kit including SDS6 and SDS7 units - these had both suffered from battery leaks, luckily not too severe. 
> 
> I think the original batteries were ni-cad and I am wondering what would be a suitable substitute type that does not leak. There are ni-mh, also li-ion types available, I think some other type as well. 
> 
> My knowledge of battery technology is practically zero, so looking for some informed opinion here. I was intending to use ni-mh batteries, would that be ok?
> 
> Cheers, vout
>

>
> 
> I depends on the charging circuit. Most ni-cad circuits are designed to trickle charge at 0.1C where C is the mAh rating of the battery. You can do this indefinitely without harming the battery. 
> 
> If you try and charge a ni-mh battery at that rate, once it is fully charged, you will damage it. Safe trickle charge rates are on the order of 0.004C so it would be impractical to unconditionally charge at such a low rate. Typically, ni-mh battery chargers terminate their charging using a delta V/t or a delta T/t (where V is voltage, t is time and T is temperature). 
> 
> Benchmarq (by Texas Instruments) makes a whole series of charge ICs like the bq2002t that I have used in the past but the simple thing would be to simply replace the battery with a similar one.
> 
> Steve
> 
>  
> --- In Simmons_Drums@yahoogroups.com, vout@ wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I've recently had to repair several bits of Simmons kit including SDS6 and SDS7 units - these had both suffered from battery leaks, luckily not too severe. 
> > 
> > I think the original batteries were ni-cad and I am wondering what would be a suitable substitute type that does not leak. There are ni-mh, also li-ion types available, I think some other type as well. 
> > 
> > My knowledge of battery technology is practically zero, so looking for some informed opinion here. I was intending to use ni-mh batteries, would that be ok?
> > 
> > Cheers, vout
> >
>

>
> vout@... skrev 2012-03-17 15:07:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Thanks for the replies.
> >
> > I've been told that a Lithium battery would be a good replacement. I've
> > looked and they seem to be very good, with long life, stability and very
> > low self discharge in their favour. BUT, they are not rechargeable as
> > far as I can see (li-ion are, but they leak too it seems, nimh can also
> > leak).
> >
> > So, I think I might fit a Lithium battery (CR123a type or similar) in a
> > holder and disconnect the charging circuit (solving any potential
> > problems there I hope). Has anyone tried this and how long do you think
> > the battery would last?
> >
> > I really don't want to use ni-cad batteries any more, I've seen so much
> > good gear ruined by them.
> 
> My three MTMs and my SDS-7 have Lithium batteries these days. In the MTM 
> you can simply lift a resistor and in the SDS-7 you can add a diode.
> A fair guess on the life span would be 5-10 years.
> 
> -- 
> electronically yours, jesper
> 
> - -- --- ---- ----- ---- --- -- -
> www.electronic-obsession.se
>

>
> 
> > I've been told that a Lithium battery would be a good replacement. 
> 
> Nope. Totally unsuitable, and they can have a very short life unless you muck about extensively with very low power RAM chips.
> 
> > So, I think I might fit a Lithium battery (CR123a type or similar) 
> 
> Fit an NiMH, they're a drop-in replacement.
> 
> > I really don't want to use ni-cad batteries any more, I've seen so much good gear ruined by them.
> 
> You can't even get NiCad backup batteries any more.  Just get a NiMH, fit it, and forget it for another twenty years.
> 
> -- 
> Gordonjcp MM0YEQ
>

>
> vout@... skrev 2012-03-18 16:34:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Okay, now I'm confused and this is why I asked here seeking informed
> > opinion. I did some searching before asking this question and there
> > seems to be a lot of contradictory advice out there about suitable
> > replacements for ni-cads.
> >
> > The big problem for me is battery leakage, so from that standpoint NiMH
> > is not a good option as it seems they can leak just as badly. The
> > consensus seems to be that Lithium batteries are the least likely to
> > leak, though they can in very rare and extreme conditions.
> >
> > Lets be clear that I am talking about using a non-rechargeable and
> > fairly high capacity Lithium battery (AA size probably) and removing or
> > blocking the existing charging current in the way described by Jesper.
> > It works for him and I think it will be a good solution for me too. Also
> > I have seen people using Lithium CR2032 button cells to provide memory
> > back-up in TR-606's and TB-303's so it does seem to be a workable solution.
> >
> > Cheers, vout
> 
> That was my train of thoughts too. One of my MTM's was quite messy and 
> the SDS-7 not a pretty sight either. I took some scary shots when 
> changing that one. Will make a "how to-page" one of these weeks/months. 
> My main concern wasn't loosing memories. It was leakage in the future. 
> 10 years passes so quickly... 20 too by the way. Also, I decided to go 
> with AA-battery size and mount it far from the PCB. I've done the same 
> in other gear and have another battery + holder here on my workbench 
> that's intended for my OSCar soon, very soon.
> I'm against "drop-ins" due to their place on the PCB. I'm against NiMh 
> due to the fact that they leak more easily. I prefer AA in a holder 
> since it's easy to replace. I want to be able to do that while the unit 
> is powered and don't mess with memory backup on external media.
> 
> These are just my opinions. Gordon has his and if it works for him, all 
> the better! We all use our gear in different ways. We are differently 
> skilled in soldering and messing about inside. Some gear are annoying to 
> program (SDS-7) and some a lot easier (MTM).
> 
> Keep banging those hexaheads!
> 
> -- 
> electronically yours, jesper
> 
> - -- --- ---- ----- ---- --- -- -
> www.electronic-obsession.se
>

>
> Paul White at Electrongate supplies magnetic RAM storage for Oberheim DMX's and similar, which eliminates the battery totally. I'm surprised this technology hasn't been adopted/adapted for other vintage gear...(although I'm not a tech so there may be some reason it wouldn't work).  Info here:  http://www.electrongate.com/dmxfiles/mram.html
> 
> --- In Simmons_Drums@yahoogroups.com, jesper <jesper@> wrote:
> >
> > vout@ skrev 2012-03-18 16:34:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Okay, now I'm confused and this is why I asked here seeking informed
> > > opinion. I did some searching before asking this question and there
> > > seems to be a lot of contradictory advice out there about suitable
> > > replacements for ni-cads.
> > >
> > > The big problem for me is battery leakage, so from that standpoint NiMH
> > > is not a good option as it seems they can leak just as badly. The
> > > consensus seems to be that Lithium batteries are the least likely to
> > > leak, though they can in very rare and extreme conditions.
> > >
> > > Lets be clear that I am talking about using a non-rechargeable and
> > > fairly high capacity Lithium battery (AA size probably) and removing or
> > > blocking the existing charging current in the way described by Jesper.
> > > It works for him and I think it will be a good solution for me too. Also
> > > I have seen people using Lithium CR2032 button cells to provide memory
> > > back-up in TR-606's and TB-303's so it does seem to be a workable solution.
> > >
> > > Cheers, vout
> > 
> > That was my train of thoughts too. One of my MTM's was quite messy and 
> > the SDS-7 not a pretty sight either. I took some scary shots when 
> > changing that one. Will make a "how to-page" one of these weeks/months. 
> > My main concern wasn't loosing memories. It was leakage in the future. 
> > 10 years passes so quickly... 20 too by the way. Also, I decided to go 
> > with AA-battery size and mount it far from the PCB. I've done the same 
> > in other gear and have another battery + holder here on my workbench 
> > that's intended for my OSCar soon, very soon.
> > I'm against "drop-ins" due to their place on the PCB. I'm against NiMh 
> > due to the fact that they leak more easily. I prefer AA in a holder 
> > since it's easy to replace. I want to be able to do that while the unit 
> > is powered and don't mess with memory backup on external media.
> > 
> > These are just my opinions. Gordon has his and if it works for him, all 
> > the better! We all use our gear in different ways. We are differently 
> > skilled in soldering and messing about inside. Some gear are annoying to 
> > program (SDS-7) and some a lot easier (MTM).
> > 
> > Keep banging those hexaheads!
> > 
> > -- 
> > electronically yours, jesper
> > 
> > - -- --- ---- ----- ---- --- -- -
> > www.electronic-obsession.se
> >
>

>
> Hi,
> 
> I've recently had to repair several bits of Simmons kit including SDS6 and SDS7 units - these had both suffered from battery leaks, luckily not too severe. 
> 
> I think the original batteries were ni-cad and I am wondering what would be a suitable substitute type that does not leak. There are ni-mh, also li-ion types available, I think some other type as well. 
> 
> My knowledge of battery technology is practically zero, so looking for some informed opinion here. I was intending to use ni-mh batteries, would that be ok?
> 
> Cheers, vout
>

>
> i would love to have an SDS6
> ..
> ....
> 
> 
> z
> 
> 
> 
> Â 
> NEW ALLIANCE EAST!!!!
> 
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> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
>  From: "vout@..." <vout@...>
> To: Simmons_Drums@yahoogroups.com 
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 3:19 PM
> Subject: [Simmons Drums] Memory backup batteries in Simmons gear
>  
> 
> Â  
> Hi,
> 
> I've recently had to repair several bits of Simmons kit including SDS6 and SDS7 units - these had both suffered from battery leaks, luckily not too severe. 
> 
> I think the original batteries were ni-cad and I am wondering what would be a suitable substitute type that does not leak. There are ni-mh, also li-ion types available, I think some other type as well. 
> 
> My knowledge of battery technology is practically zero, so looking for some informed opinion here. I was intending to use ni-mh batteries, would that be ok?
> 
> Cheers, vout
> 
> 
>  
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>