Vintage Simmons Drums (UK) Users Group

Hi,
There's one of these come up - I've googled it, but am still a bit unsure as to what it does.

My understanding is that you can hook it up to eg SDS9 via MIDI & it creates (generally) percussiony sounds?

Can you switch, on the fly, between the SDS9 voices & the SDE?

It is described as an FM synthesiser - what does that mean/what are the implications on the noises it makes? I gather realism isn't high on the feature list, but it's not too high on mine either.

I haven't really had chance to explore the SDS9 much yet as it's packed away while we sell our house, but it doesn't stop me from looking at more bits of kit! I've not done any MIDI yet either.

Is this an obscure piece of kit for the die-hard or could it be useful?

Thanks for any enlightenment you may care to give.
Regards
Jonathan

The SDE is a bit like a rack version of the Silicon mallet. It sounds similar to the DX7: nice bell sounds and any kind of (FM like artificial) chromatic percussion like mallets, e-pianos etc.... You can connect it to the SDS9 via midi. But it is not very clever to trigger a chromatic percussion expander with an SDS9 which can only trigger 6 midi notes with it's 6 channels. It would make more sense with an MTM as you can assign full chords to one pad. I doubt that SDE and SDS9 are a perfect pair

--- In Simmons_Drums@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan" <capnfishy@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> There's one of these come up - I've googled it, but am still a bit unsure as to what it does.
>
> My understanding is that you can hook it up to eg SDS9 via MIDI & it creates (generally) percussiony sounds?
>
> Can you switch, on the fly, between the SDS9 voices & the SDE?
>
> It is described as an FM synthesiser - what does that mean/what are the implications on the noises it makes? I gather realism isn't high on the feature list, but it's not too high on mine either.
>
> I haven't really had chance to explore the SDS9 much yet as it's packed away while we sell our house, but it doesn't stop me from looking at more bits of kit! I've not done any MIDI yet either.
>
> Is this an obscure piece of kit for the die-hard or could it be useful?
>
> Thanks for any enlightenment you may care to give.
> Regards
> Jonathan
>

Jonathan skrev:

> Hi,
> There's one of these come up - I've googled it, but am still a bit
> unsure as to what it does.

Simmons Drum Expander. Sounds like a good description. ;)

> My understanding is that you can hook it up to eg SDS9 via MIDI & it
> creates (generally) percussiony sounds?

Yes... it's for percussion sounds. but...

> Can you switch, on the fly, between the SDS9 voices & the SDE?

...I'm not sure you can switch between them like described.

> It is described as an FM synthesiser - what does that mean/what are the
> implications on the noises it makes? I gather realism isn't high on the
> feature list, but it's not too high on mine either.

FM was _thee_ thing 1986. Think Yamaha DX-7 and you get the general
lifeless and sterile sound. When it comes to percussion these are more
useful than in the synth world (if you ask me) 'cause FM is really good
for bells, cymbal and similar "hard" and metallic sounds.

> I haven't really had chance to explore the SDS9 much yet as it's packed
> away while we sell our house, but it doesn't stop me from looking at
> more bits of kit! I've not done any MIDI yet either.
>
> Is this an obscure piece of kit for the die-hard or could it be useful?

Not obscure and not for the die-hard, but a neat expander for those
wanting more digital noise in the sound. Don't pay much!

> Thanks for any enlightenment you may care to give.
> Regards
> Jonathan

There you got my two cents! :)

--
electronically yours, jesper

- -- --- ---- ----- ---- --- -- -
www.electronic-obsession.se

Hi jonathan,
following my own experience of it....

I used the SDE as an "add on" to my Keyboards & expander setup.
And played it from a keyboard.
It has its charm really. ALone I find it useless, but to add some character to a
track or sounds layers ... it becomes really interesting.

Now, you can use it as a sound complement of any of your Drummodules...
Ifyou like that perspective.

Bythe way (& for the list )I had the answer to an old mystery when I recently
saw & asked Dave what about this famous SDE "AUDIO INPUT" that didn't even
appears in the manual...
He told me it was designed for MTX9 or SDS9 when you wanted to trigg from
Percussion sound... but I might have missed some details of his answer.



I think it was (also) designed anyway for use with these modules.
But yes quite limitating in the notes if it's trigged just from an SDS9... MTM
is definitely the tool if you want to create complex notes triggering ...like
Bill Bruford used to do in his "Earthworks" project, where he composed
everything (chords & textures) from his Edrum set up (SDX , SDS7 or SDS9
following the concerned period...).
Then the MTM was the heart of his complex triggering routing.
But you could hear an FM Synth (a Yamaha DX21) & the whatever Simmons brain he
then had.
So the combination of colours could quite look like what Bill did with it when
he mixed Analog sources of SDS7 or 9 with the FM technology.

I know Bill loved to mix metallic noises anyway with his Drums sounds.
Certainly to get some "contrast" colours.

To come back to the SDE , it appears to be a very complex programming.
But I never really dive in it. It can be a sort of Swiss knife if you think your
tracks are a bit flat. ;-)


anyway... hope it helps.
Patrice.



Selon Jonathan <capnfishy@...>:

> Hi,
> There's one of these come up - I've googled it, but am still a bit unsure as
> to what it does.
>
> My understanding is that you can hook it up to eg SDS9 via MIDI & it creates
> (generally) percussiony sounds?
>
> Can you switch, on the fly, between the SDS9 voices & the SDE?
>
> It is described as an FM synthesiser - what does that mean/what are the
> implications on the noises it makes? I gather realism isn't high on the
> feature list, but it's not too high on mine either.
>
> I haven't really had chance to explore the SDS9 much yet as it's packed away
> while we sell our house, but it doesn't stop me from looking at more bits of
> kit! I've not done any MIDI yet either.
>
> Is this an obscure piece of kit for the die-hard or could it be useful?
>
> Thanks for any enlightenment you may care to give.
> Regards
> Jonathan
>
>
>
>
>
>

Thanks for the info on this, especially not to pay too much....

If the price stays low I'll put in for it as I've got a MIDI keyboard, although it would be nice to trigger it from some sort of pad through an apropriate module - whatever that might be. I appreciate that you would not make full use of the chromatic potential, but I'm thinking cowbells or other bits of stuff that one might have on a drum kit.
Cheers
Jonathan

Selon Jonathan <capnfishy@...>:

>
>
> Thanks for the info on this, especially not to pay too much....

Absolutely ... ;-)

>
> If the price stays low I'll put in for it as I've got a MIDI keyboard,
> although it would be nice to trigger it from some sort of pad through an
> apropriate module - whatever that might be. I appreciate that you would not
> make full use of the chromatic potential, but I'm thinking cowbells or other
> bits of stuff that one might have on a drum kit.

so, good luck ...

> Cheers
> Jonathan
>
>
>

"don't pay too much for it" was everyone's advice. Went for £102/119 euros. Seems a bit much to me so I let it go...
Shame though, sounds like it would have been interesting.
Thanks again for your input.
Jonathan

--- In Simmons_Drums@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan" <capnfishy@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> There's one of these come up - I've googled it, but am still a bit unsure as to what it does.
>
> My understanding is that you can hook it up to eg SDS9 via MIDI & it creates (generally) percussiony sounds?
>
> Can you switch, on the fly, between the SDS9 voices & the SDE?
>
> It is described as an FM synthesiser - what does that mean/what are the implications on the noises it makes? I gather realism isn't high on the feature list, but it's not too high on mine either.
>
> I haven't really had chance to explore the SDS9 much yet as it's packed away while we sell our house, but it doesn't stop me from looking at more bits of kit! I've not done any MIDI yet either.
>
> Is this an obscure piece of kit for the die-hard or could it be useful?
>
> Thanks for any enlightenment you may care to give.
> Regards
> Jonathan
>

Hi, I'm new here...

I joined to see if anyone has schematics or experience fixing the Simmons SDE. Mine stopped working around 1998 and I'm trying to get it back up and running because I miss it.

The power supply went out when the caps blew. I've replaced these and the unit now turns on again, lights up, responds to buttons and knobs, even responds to midi. Everything seems to work from the front panel, but there is no sound, except for a harsh intermittent buzzing for a few minutes after its turned on.

I measured the voltage going to the yamaha chips and found it to be lower than their datasheet says is acceptable. Datasheet says minimum 4.8v and its measuring 4.5v. I suspect the power supply still has issues and I think fixing and verifying that is the best place to start.

Anybody have schematics? Tips for troubleshooting? Anybody else fixed one of these? If a schematic for this machine isn't available, maybe a schematic from one of its contemporaries would have the same power supply design.

Failing that, could I talk somebody into opening their healthy SDE up and measuring the voltages on the power supply ribbon cable so I can at least tell what those voltages are supposed to be?

thanks for your help.

+1 on this. I fired mine up to try and help and voices 1-3 are dead. A schematic and source for the Yamaha voice chip would be great.
Thanks in advance!
Ed

--- In Simmons_Drums@yahoogroups.com, "xjnx0x" <concken@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, I'm new here...
>
> I joined to see if anyone has schematics or experience fixing the Simmons SDE. Mine stopped working around 1998 and I'm trying to get it back up and running because I miss it.
>
> The power supply went out when the caps blew. I've replaced these and the unit now turns on again, lights up, responds to buttons and knobs, even responds to midi. Everything seems to work from the front panel, but there is no sound, except for a harsh intermittent buzzing for a few minutes after its turned on.
>
> I measured the voltage going to the yamaha chips and found it to be lower than their datasheet says is acceptable. Datasheet says minimum 4.8v and its measuring 4.5v. I suspect the power supply still has issues and I think fixing and verifying that is the best place to start.
>
> Anybody have schematics? Tips for troubleshooting? Anybody else fixed one of these? If a schematic for this machine isn't available, maybe a schematic from one of its contemporaries would have the same power supply design.
>
> Failing that, could I talk somebody into opening their healthy SDE up and measuring the voltages on the power supply ribbon cable so I can at least tell what those voltages are supposed to be?
>
> thanks for your help.
>

HI Ed, thanks for your reply.

The voice chips are Yamaha YM2203c.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_YM2203

here's a datasheet:
http://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/pdf/90458/ETC/YM2203.html

Did you manage to measure the outputs from the power supply?

thanks!
Christian.

--- In Simmons_Drums@yahoogroups.com, "Ed" <edrose1@...> wrote:
>
> +1 on this. I fired mine up to try and help and voices 1-3 are dead. A schematic and source for the Yamaha voice chip would be great.
> Thanks in advance!
> Ed
>
> --- In Simmons_Drums@yahoogroups.com, "xjnx0x" <concken@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi, I'm new here...
> >
> > I joined to see if anyone has schematics or experience fixing the Simmons SDE. Mine stopped working around 1998 and I'm trying to get it back up and running because I miss it.
> >
> > The power supply went out when the caps blew. I've replaced these and the unit now turns on again, lights up, responds to buttons and knobs, even responds to midi. Everything seems to work from the front panel, but there is no sound, except for a harsh intermittent buzzing for a few minutes after its turned on.
> >
> > I measured the voltage going to the yamaha chips and found it to be lower than their datasheet says is acceptable. Datasheet says minimum 4.8v and its measuring 4.5v. I suspect the power supply still has issues and I think fixing and verifying that is the best place to start.
> >
> > Anybody have schematics? Tips for troubleshooting? Anybody else fixed one of these? If a schematic for this machine isn't available, maybe a schematic from one of its contemporaries would have the same power supply design.
> >
> > Failing that, could I talk somebody into opening their healthy SDE up and measuring the voltages on the power supply ribbon cable so I can at least tell what those voltages are supposed to be?
> >
> > thanks for your help.
> >
>

Just wanted to let everyone know, I fixed the SDE this weekend.

I guessed that the power supply was most likely the source of the problem and determined what I thought the outputs from it should be by studying the part numbers of the regulator chips and tracing their connections to the ribbon cable. Then I worked to get it to output those voltages on the ribbon cable. I ended up replacing all the ICs and capacitors on the power supply board, which may have not been strictly necessary but will hopefully prevent a blowout of one of the other old caps further down the road. The board has extremely delicate traces that broke when I was removing old parts, I had to rebuild 3 of them. The last piece of the puzzle was the 6v regulator putting out 16v (the same as the input voltage) on the output. This was caused by a broken trace on the ground pin of that IC... apparently if there is no ground connection the voltage goes straight through.

I suspect that this same power supply is used in other Simmons rack units of that vintage so I hope this may be useful to some of you.

I was jumping up and down hearing this thing again after more than 10 years. Its just as quirky and weird as I remember it.

Cheers,
Christian

--- In Simmons_Drums@yahoogroups.com, "Ed" <edrose1@...> wrote:
>
> +1 on this. I fired mine up to try and help and voices 1-3 are dead. A schematic and source for the Yamaha voice chip would be great.
> Thanks in advance!
> Ed
>
> --- In Simmons_Drums@yahoogroups.com, "xjnx0x" <concken@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi, I'm new here...
> >
> > I joined to see if anyone has schematics or experience fixing the Simmons SDE. Mine stopped working around 1998 and I'm trying to get it back up and running because I miss it.
> >
> > The power supply went out when the caps blew. I've replaced these and the unit now turns on again, lights up, responds to buttons and knobs, even responds to midi. Everything seems to work from the front panel, but there is no sound, except for a harsh intermittent buzzing for a few minutes after its turned on.
> >
> > I measured the voltage going to the yamaha chips and found it to be lower than their datasheet says is acceptable. Datasheet says minimum 4.8v and its measuring 4.5v. I suspect the power supply still has issues and I think fixing and verifying that is the best place to start.
> >
> > Anybody have schematics? Tips for troubleshooting? Anybody else fixed one of these? If a schematic for this machine isn't available, maybe a schematic from one of its contemporaries would have the same power supply design.
> >
> > Failing that, could I talk somebody into opening their healthy SDE up and measuring the voltages on the power supply ribbon cable so I can at least tell what those voltages are supposed to be?
> >
> > thanks for your help.
> >
>

Yesterday I fired up my SDE and to my disappointment, the wonderful sounds it used to produce had somehow been replaced by a terribly loud squall & squelching white noise emanating from the Audio outs and Headphone out. I replaced the battery a few years ago and the unit was just fine then. I haven't used the SDE since... it's been sitting in a road rack in storage.

Weird thing... if I tweak any of the knobs to full clockwise the noise disappears but there is still no audio. While turning the knobs, a "digital" aliasing noise is heard in the outs... and is loudest when the knobs are at the min position.

Thoughts?

Cheers
Alan

-"...if it's round, it ain't Simmons."

Have you tested to program a new sound, turned off and on again and
recalled the new patch? Does that work?

--
electronically yours, jesper

- -- --- ---- ----- ---- --- -- -
www.electronic-obsession.se

---

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music@... [Simmons_Drums] skrev 2014-07-24 23:23:

> Yesterday I fired up my SDE and to my disappointment, the wonderful
> sounds it used to produce had somehow been replaced by a terribly loud
> squall & squelching white noise emanating from the Audio outs and
> Headphone out. I replaced the battery a few years ago and the unit was
> just fine then. I haven't used the SDE since... it's been sitting in a
> road rack in storage.
>
> Weird thing... if I tweak any of the knobs to full clockwise the noise
> disappears but there is still no audio. While turning the knobs, a
> "digital" aliasing noise is heard in the outs... and is loudest when the
> knobs are at the min position.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Cheers
> Alan
>
> -"...if it's round, it ain't Simmons."

I did a factory reset (Hold down the PROGRAM Button and power it on) to no avail. I then tried what Jesper suggested again to no avail.

The thing that did resolve it finally was opening it up and re-seating the PROMs, Chips, and connectors as suggested by Nick. I then did the Factory restore again and voila! SDE sounding better than ever!!

Of note.. the Headphone Out is still really hot and noisy... but I believe this to be normal and inherent to the SDE... (and SDS9)

Thanks guys!!
Cheers

"...if it's round, it ain't Simmons."

Same thing happened again... upon powering up Mr. SDE today a horrible noise emanated from the Audio outs. Popped the case open and attempted the same fix as last time by re-seating the PROMS and connectors and in so doing found the cause to be a loose fitting connector on the Power Supply side of the 8 wire Ribbon Cable that spans over to the Motherboard. Carefully bending the pins just a little to create some friction against the connector contacts solved it, although a better solution would be to build a new Ribbon Cable with new and better fitting contacts. Also, cleaning the pins with electronic contact cleaner goes without saying..

Cheers
Teknik14

"...if it's round, it ain't Simmons." 

HI!   I love this robot!.

Anybody have the battery blow on these guys?  What is the proper replacement battery?

Mine worked until that, I hope it works with a new battery.  I went to conrad, and they said I can't get a ni-cad battery in germany.


Many Thanks

This guy:

I bought mine from a Euro seller about 2 years ago... I'll dig through my receipts and hopefully find the supplier for you.

Cheers
T14

Here you go:

http://espspecialbatteries.co.uk/

Tel +44(0)116 2413796 Fax +44(0)116 2416519

SALES@...

I was dealing with Stefan...

The Battery is:

Size (mm) 17 (H) x 20 (W) x 20 (D)

Voltage 3.6V

Capacity 120MAH

Description 
3.6V 3 *1/3 AAA + PCB PINS - REPLACEMENT FOR EMERICH NCM110

I have 6 of these installed in my Simmons Modules..  

Cheers

T14