Vintage Simmons Drums (UK) Users Group

I wonder, would there be any interest/market for a remake 
of a set of simmons drums, either as a DIY kit or as ready
made?

Im talking of the sound module + sequencer in one unit!
If so wich one, how much?

Reg
KD

i would go for SDS-5 or SDS-7 as a sound engine, and the sequencer SDS-6, if any other sequencer i don't know what else choose, maybe to throw in a CRT or TFT and paint it orange and call it Movement Drum III ;=)

cheers....
 

dalenkarl <dalenkarl@...> skrev:
I wonder, would there be any interest/market for a remake 
of a set of simmons drums, either as a DIY kit or as ready
made?

Im talking of the sound module + sequencer in one unit!
If so wich one, how much?

Reg
KD





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

KW wrote:
> i would go for SDS-5 or SDS-7 as a sound engine, and the sequencer SDS-6, if any other sequencer i don't know what else choose, maybe to throw in a CRT or TFT and paint it orange and call it Movement Drum III ;=)
> 
> cheers....
>  
>

It wouldn't be difficult.  The SDS-7 uses a couple of unusual chips, and 
of course the hybrid modules on each board.  I tried reading the service 
manual on www.simmons.synth.net but it's scanned at way too low a 
resolution - labels on IC pins and board connections are maybe 3 pixels 
high at best!

Getting the Curtis VCO and VCF chips would be tricky, to say the least. 
  However, there are a lot of DIY synth websites out there with circuit 
diagrams for VCOs and VCFs made from discrete components and 
easily-available op-amps, so this need not be a problem.  I haven't 
really worked out what the hybrid does - by the looks of things it's a 
kind of multi-channel sample-and-hold.

Gordon.

KD,

> I wonder, would there be any interest/market for a remake
> of a set of simmons drums, either as a DIY kit or as ready
> made?

Aside from the copyright issues, I'm sure people would go for it, if it sounded
good.
The biggest problem is going to be cost.
If you're talking just the drum brain, then it'd have to be less than \ufffd250 to
compete with the stuff that goes on e-bay. and that's going to be the hardest
part..

Paul

I would really appreciate a remake of the pad's backside shells

--- In Simmons_Drums@yahoogroups.com, Paul.Maddox.Mail-list@S... wrote:
> KD,
> 
> > I wonder, would there be any interest/market for a remake
> > of a set of simmons drums, either as a DIY kit or as ready
> > made?
> 
> Aside from the copyright issues, I'm sure people would go for it, if
it sounded
> good.
> The biggest problem is going to be cost.
> If you're talking just the drum brain, then it'd have to be less
than £250 to
> compete with the stuff that goes on e-bay. and that's going to be
the hardest

> part..
> 
> Paul

Just track down the VST version of Waldorf Attack.  A modeled SDS-V is one 
of the presets, and you can alter the sounds to your heart's content.

Nate

>From: Paul.Maddox.Mail-list@...
>Reply-To: Simmons_Drums@yahoogroups.com
>To: Simmons_Drums@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Simmons Drums] Remake of famus simmons!
>Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 14:35:33 +0100
>
>KD,
>
> > I wonder, would there be any interest/market for a remake
> > of a set of simmons drums, either as a DIY kit or as ready
> > made?
>
>Aside from the copyright issues, I'm sure people would go for it, if it 
>sounded
>good.
>The biggest problem is going to be cost.
>If you're talking just the drum brain, then it'd have to be less than \ufffd250 
>to
>compete with the stuff that goes on e-bay. and that's going to be the 
>hardest
>part..
>
>Paul
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

Huuuuhhhh, blasphemy ;-)

--- In Simmons_Drums@yahoogroups.com, "Nate Stewart" <nateworld@h...>
wrote:
> Just track down the VST version of Waldorf Attack.  A modeled SDS-V
is one 
> of the presets, and you can alter the sounds to your heart's content.
> 
> Nate
> 
> >From: Paul.Maddox.Mail-list@S...
> >Reply-To: Simmons_Drums@yahoogroups.com
> >To: Simmons_Drums@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [Simmons Drums] Remake of famus simmons!
> >Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 14:35:33 +0100
> >
> >KD,
> >
> > > I wonder, would there be any interest/market for a remake
> > > of a set of simmons drums, either as a DIY kit or as ready
> > > made?
> >
> >Aside from the copyright issues, I'm sure people would go for it,
if it 
> >sounded
> >good.
> >The biggest problem is going to be cost.
> >If you're talking just the drum brain, then it'd have to be less
than £250 

> >to
> >compete with the stuff that goes on e-bay. and that's going to be the 
> >hardest
> >part..
> >
> >Paul
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

:-D

Speaking of remakes, anyone on here know what Danny Carey is planning?  His 
site said something was in the works to replace his SDX, with a picture of 
what looked like SDX pads painted purple, but that was years ago...

>From: "superwolle70" <superwolle70@...>
>Reply-To: Simmons_Drums@yahoogroups.com
>To: Simmons_Drums@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Simmons Drums] Remake of famus simmons!
>Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 13:56:16 -0000
>
>Huuuuhhhh, blasphemy ;-)
>
>--- In Simmons_Drums@yahoogroups.com, "Nate Stewart" <nateworld@h...>
>wrote:
> > Just track down the VST version of Waldorf Attack.  A modeled SDS-V
>is one
> > of the presets, and you can alter the sounds to your heart's content.
> >
> > Nate
> >
> > >From: Paul.Maddox.Mail-list@S...
> > >Reply-To: Simmons_Drums@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: Simmons_Drums@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: Re: [Simmons Drums] Remake of famus simmons!
> > >Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 14:35:33 +0100
> > >
> > >KD,
> > >
> > > > I wonder, would there be any interest/market for a remake
> > > > of a set of simmons drums, either as a DIY kit or as ready
> > > > made?
> > >
> > >Aside from the copyright issues, I'm sure people would go for it,
>if it
> > >sounded
> > >good.
> > >The biggest problem is going to be cost.
> > >If you're talking just the drum brain, then it'd have to be less
>than \ufffd250
> > >to
> > >compete with the stuff that goes on e-bay. and that's going to be the
> > >hardest
> > >part..
> > >
> > >Paul
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

--- In Simmons_Drums@yahoogroups.com, Paul.Maddox.Mail-list@S... 
wrote:
> KD,
> 
> > I wonder, would there be any interest/market for a remake
> > of a set of simmons drums, either as a DIY kit or as ready
> > made?
> 
> Aside from the copyright issues, I'm sure people would go for it, 
if it sounded good.

Well, there is no copyright issue "exept" "perhaps"
for the name simmons, we could name it Limmons for instance! :-)

> good.
> The biggest problem is going to be cost.
> If you're talking just the drum brain, then it'd have to be less 
>than £250 to

Well, i just had a look at it, base the VCA and VCO VCF on 13700
and we are dirt cheap, one side does VCO the other does VCA 
"including" sine shaper and 2 quadrant modulator FM as default 
in VCO, drums dont need tempcos so we save an awful lot of money
there. Nor do we need perfect tracking so standard components
will do for every thing. 

Sequencer brain including user interface (pot scan),
demux for drum voice controll can stay at 8 bit all 
done with one of your favourites, AT MEGA16 for instance.
Dirt cheap, all depends what one would charge for the 
software development? 

> compete with the stuff that goes on e-bay. and that's going to be 
the hardest
> part..

Actually, i was more into of an "modern" programmable analog/digital
drum diy synt more into the voice architecture of the Pearl
syncussion SY1 but with the capability of making the typical
simmons sounds.

I dont consider the hardware the biggest cost, a quick look 
says 8 voice module including evrything, brain etc could be
done well under 250euro! Thats the "raw" cost, no profit, 
no taxes, etc.

KD

Actually it could do a lot more sounds then 
the SY1 or a  typical simmons!

For example,a drum voice could consist of two Sine/triangle VCO,
one can do FM , lin or log, each VCO have a VCA, then one
variable Noise source with its own VCA, a 2pole self 
oscillating HP/LP filter wich can be FM by both VCOs,
a mixing output stage, a decay generator for every VCO freq,
and VCA level, and VCF freq, with variable decay time amp level
and velocy. And a simple klick generator. Since there would be 
3 way FM the requrements for inharmonic structures are satisfyied
to create bell, chime, ride and cowbell etc sounds.

One can do an awful lot of sounds with such a simple architecture.
You could do most of the old/new Kraftwerkian type of sounds.

KD

--- In Simmons_Drums@yahoogroups.com, "dalenkarl" <dalenkarl@y...> 
wrote:

> --- In Simmons_Drums@yahoogroups.com, Paul.Maddox.Mail-list@S... 
> wrote:
> > KD,
> > 
> > > I wonder, would there be any interest/market for a remake
> > > of a set of simmons drums, either as a DIY kit or as ready
> > > made?
> > 
> > Aside from the copyright issues, I'm sure people would go for it, 
> if it sounded good.
> 
> Well, there is no copyright issue "exept" "perhaps"
> for the name simmons, we could name it Limmons for instance! :-)
> 
> > good.
> > The biggest problem is going to be cost.
> > If you're talking just the drum brain, then it'd have to be less 
> >than £250 to
> 
> Well, i just had a look at it, base the VCA and VCO VCF on 13700
> and we are dirt cheap, one side does VCO the other does VCA 
> "including" sine shaper and 2 quadrant modulator FM as default 
> in VCO, drums dont need tempcos so we save an awful lot of money
> there. Nor do we need perfect tracking so standard components
> will do for every thing. 
> 
> Sequencer brain including user interface (pot scan),
> demux for drum voice controll can stay at 8 bit all 
> done with one of your favourites, AT MEGA16 for instance.
> Dirt cheap, all depends what one would charge for the 
> software development? 
> 
> > compete with the stuff that goes on e-bay. and that's going to be 
> the hardest
> > part..
> 
> Actually, i was more into of an "modern" programmable analog/digital
> drum diy synt more into the voice architecture of the Pearl
> syncussion SY1 but with the capability of making the typical
> simmons sounds.
> 
> I dont consider the hardware the biggest cost, a quick look 
> says 8 voice module including evrything, brain etc could be
> done well under 250euro! Thats the "raw" cost, no profit, 
> no taxes, etc.
> 
> KD

Wich analog disco sound do you prefear?
The beeyoo,beeyoo sound, or the booyee,booyee sound! :-)

Reg
KD

K,

> Well, there is no copyright issue "exept" "perhaps"
> for the name simmons, we could name it Limmons for instance! :-)

Hehe.

> Well, i just had a look at it, base the VCA and VCO VCF on 13700
> and we are dirt cheap, one side does VCO the other does VCA
> "including" sine shaper and 2 quadrant modulator FM as default
> in VCO, drums dont need tempcos so we save an awful lot of money
> there. Nor do we need perfect tracking so standard components
> will do for every thing.

:-)
To get that 'simmons' SDS-V sound, you need a 4 pole filter, preferably a
moog ladder (SSM2044)

> Sequencer brain including user interface (pot scan),
> demux for drum voice controll can stay at 8 bit all
> done with one of your favourites, AT MEGA16 for instance.

Pretty cheap, yes..
Then theres the PCB, Power supply, Case and assembly costs.

> I dont consider the hardware the biggest cost, a quick look
> says 8 voice module including evrything, brain etc could be
> done well under 250euro! Thats the "raw" cost, no profit,
> no taxes, etc.

Go for it, But I think you'll be in for a surprise when you goto manufacture
it..
I recently tried to build a polysynth, to make an 8voice digital/analogue
poly was going to cost around £2500 to make, which meant I'd have had to
sell it for over £3000, and not many people will pay tthat for an 8 note
polysynth these days :-(

Paul

--- In Simmons_Drums@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Maddox (Mail LIsts)" 
<Paul.Maddox.Mail-list@S...> wrote:
> K,
> 
> > Well, there is no copyright issue "exept" "perhaps"
> > for the name simmons, we could name it Limmons for instance! :-)
> 
> Hehe.

Limmons and Dimmons! :-)

> 
> > Well, i just had a look at it, base the VCA and VCO VCF on 13700
> > and we are dirt cheap, one side does VCO the other does VCA
> > "including" sine shaper and 2 quadrant modulator FM as default
> > in VCO, drums dont need tempcos so we save an awful lot of money
> > there. Nor do we need perfect tracking so standard components
> > will do for every thing.
> 
> :-)
> To get that 'simmons' SDS-V sound, you need a 4 pole filter, 
preferably a
> moog ladder (SSM2044)

I dont know the internals of the V, but if VCO produces
triangle as in those Simmons units based on CEM3394,
then perhaps (for filtering it down to sine) but if
the VCO allready does sine no filter at all are needed.

Besides resonance are not used in most Simmons drums so
character of filter type are most invisible unless heavyli
saturated inputs. But of that im not shure since it was 
long time i heard a SDS.

> > Sequencer brain including user interface (pot scan),
> > demux for drum voice controll can stay at 8 bit all
> > done with one of your favourites, AT MEGA16 for instance.
> 
> Pretty cheap, yes..
> Then theres the PCB, Power supply, Case and assembly costs.

Powersupply are standard wallwart 9V AC filtered into +/-6 to 8V
and a +5V dirt cheap.

PCB, well there are cheapo places to deal with.

Case, a problem tought, shoe box perhaps?

Assembly, well DIY!
> 
> > I dont consider the hardware the biggest cost, a quick look
> > says 8 voice module including evrything, brain etc could be
> > done well under 250euro! Thats the "raw" cost, no profit,
> > no taxes, etc.
> 
> Go for it, But I think you'll be in for a surprise when you goto 
manufacture
> it..

Well, i was more into the DIY side of it! Make a PCB and 
programmed MCU in a kit, builder gets rest. Lets say 150euro
for that (ex shipping).
 
> I recently tried to build a polysynth, to make an 8voice 
digital/analogue

Yes i know! :-)

> poly was going to cost around £2500 to make, which meant I'd have 
had to
> sell it for over £3000, and not many people will pay tthat for an 8 
note
> polysynth these days :-(

Saad truth yes i feel the pain!

But also, it depends on how you build it, do it the moog voyager way
and you "must" ask 3000usd for it (what a over done synth that is)
Or be clever and minimize to a absolute minimum to achive desired
function, yes i know its a "really" hard task to achieve.

I was very supriced when i saw the inner electronics of the Voyager!!

Reg
KD

K,

> I dont know the internals of the V, but if VCO produces
> triangle as in those Simmons units based on CEM3394,
> then perhaps (for filtering it down to sine) but if
> the VCO allready does sine no filter at all are needed.

The filter is needed because of the noise.
the SDS-V uses a CEM3340 and SSM2044, its quite different to the others, and
sounds it too.

> Assembly, well DIY!

hehe, so you're not planning on making 1000 of them then?

> Well, i was more into the DIY side of it! Make a PCB and
> programmed MCU in a kit, builder gets rest. Lets say 150euro
> for that (ex shipping).

go for it.

> But also, it depends on how you build it, do it the moog voyager way
> and you "must" ask 3000usd for it (what a over done synth that is)

sadly, I'm not moog, if I was to build a synth, my name couldn't command an
extra 50% on the price..

> I was very supriced when i saw the inner electronics of the Voyager!!

there's a lot in there, probably too much.

Paul

--- In Simmons_Drums@yahoogroups.com, Paul.Maddox.Mail-list@S... 
wrote:
> K,
> 
> > I dont know the internals of the V, but if VCO produces
> > triangle as in those Simmons units based on CEM3394,
> > then perhaps (for filtering it down to sine) but if
> > the VCO allready does sine no filter at all are needed.
> 
> The filter is needed because of the noise.
> the SDS-V uses a CEM3340 and SSM2044, its quite different to the 
others, and sounds it too.

I still have doubths Paul, to sound! ;-)
But, i mixed it up a bit, the 3394 based units mixes
noise and VCO into filter, SDSV filters only noise so 
on that one you are correct.

Where are the complete SDSV service manual?
When i look at the one at your site i dont see any 3340,
only the typical integrator comparator triangle OSC?  

> > Assembly, well DIY!
> 
> hehe, so you're not planning on making 1000 of them then?

Well, i didnt "plan" anything actually, just a quick 
speculation to se if interest might bee around!

> > Well, i was more into the DIY side of it! Make a PCB and
> > programmed MCU in a kit, builder gets rest. Lets say 150euro
> > for that (ex shipping).
> 
> go for it.

Im not shure people are interested to pay for such a idea
even if it would be diy and affordable, you know, VST, PC and
all that stuff, synths toady are more like hair dryers,
buy one and trow away tomorrow!
 
KD

Hi Nate , 


Are you sure ?
a virtual synth to compete with the organic one ?
For the moment , I'm afraid it's just a fantasy... an 
approximation ...
maybe one day ...when we'll all have a 384HZ sound card ...

bye,




--- In Simmons_Drums@yahoogroups.com, "Nate Stewart" <nateworld@h...> 
wrote:
> Just track down the VST version of Waldorf Attack.  A modeled SDS-V 
is one 
> of the presets, and you can alter the sounds to your heart's 
content.
> 
> Nate
> 
> >From: Paul.Maddox.Mail-list@S...
> >Reply-To: Simmons_Drums@yahoogroups.com
> >To: Simmons_Drums@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [Simmons Drums] Remake of famus simmons!
> >Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 14:35:33 +0100
> >
> >KD,
> >
> > > I wonder, would there be any interest/market for a remake
> > > of a set of simmons drums, either as a DIY kit or as ready
> > > made?
> >
> >Aside from the copyright issues, I'm sure people would go for it, 
if it 
> >sounded
> >good.
> >The biggest problem is going to be cost.
> >If you're talking just the drum brain, then it'd have to be less 
than £250 
> >to
> >compete with the stuff that goes on e-bay. and that's going to be 
the 

> >hardest
> >part..
> >
> >Paul
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

I've had it for quite some time, and it sounds pretty good.  To those who 
cry heresy, I am triggering it using an SDS-9 as my MIDI interface.  ;-)

Nate

>From: "angeyoda" <Jacquot.Patrice@...>
>Reply-To: Simmons_Drums@yahoogroups.com
>To: Simmons_Drums@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Simmons Drums] Remake of famus simmons!
>Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 15:58:57 -0000
>
>Hi Nate ,
>
>
>Are you sure ?
>a virtual synth to compete with the organic one ?
>For the moment , I'm afraid it's just a fantasy... an
>approximation ...
>maybe one day ...when we'll all have a 384HZ sound card ...
>
>bye,
>
>
>
>
>--- In Simmons_Drums@yahoogroups.com, "Nate Stewart" <nateworld@h...>
>wrote:
> > Just track down the VST version of Waldorf Attack.  A modeled SDS-V
>is one
> > of the presets, and you can alter the sounds to your heart's
>content.
> >
> > Nate
> >
> > >From: Paul.Maddox.Mail-list@S...
> > >Reply-To: Simmons_Drums@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: Simmons_Drums@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: Re: [Simmons Drums] Remake of famus simmons!
> > >Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 14:35:33 +0100
> > >
> > >KD,
> > >
> > > > I wonder, would there be any interest/market for a remake
> > > > of a set of simmons drums, either as a DIY kit or as ready
> > > > made?
> > >
> > >Aside from the copyright issues, I'm sure people would go for it,
>if it
> > >sounded
> > >good.
> > >The biggest problem is going to be cost.
> > >If you're talking just the drum brain, then it'd have to be less
>than \ufffd250
> > >to
> > >compete with the stuff that goes on e-bay. and that's going to be
>the
> > >hardest
> > >part..
> > >
> > >Paul
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

Well Nate, if you say so ...

It depends what sound you're expecting from your SImmons...
if you're talking about peeeeooowwww, yes a lot of things can do 
that !
I guess it's the Simmons sounds I hate the most !
but for beefy tribal sounds I didn't find it anywhere else ...I have 
tryed the Waldorf Attack....... & never opened it since then...

But If a virtual synth in a laptop can do what I expect from my 
SImmons units ; believe me I 'll be the first to purchase it !!!
I'm not a fan of units all over the studio !

Heresy or not , just a personal opinion , virtual synths are far 
from  Simmons , like Atmosphere is imitating the Fairlight type of 
sound in a great & an easier way ........to the point you're lucky 
enough to hear a real one ... & you're suddenly in another 
universe ...
Which isn't a good thing really , a Fairlight is still a  lot more 
expensive than Atmosphere ...Unfortunetaly ...

As I said before maybe one day  ...

 Take care of you SDS9, it's a nice unit ,
Cheers , 
Patrice.




--- In Simmons_Drums@yahoogroups.com, "Nate Stewart" <nateworld@h...> 
wrote:
> I've had it for quite some time, and it sounds pretty good.  To 
those who 
> cry heresy, I am triggering it using an SDS-9 as my MIDI 
interface.  ;-)
> 
> Nate
> 
> >From: "angeyoda" <Jacquot.Patrice@w...>
> >Reply-To: Simmons_Drums@yahoogroups.com
> >To: Simmons_Drums@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [Simmons Drums] Remake of famus simmons!
> >Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 15:58:57 -0000
> >
> >Hi Nate ,
> >
> >
> >Are you sure ?
> >a virtual synth to compete with the organic one ?
> >For the moment , I'm afraid it's just a fantasy... an
> >approximation ...
> >maybe one day ...when we'll all have a 384HZ sound card ...
> >
> >bye,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >--- In Simmons_Drums@yahoogroups.com, "Nate Stewart" 
<nateworld@h...>
> >wrote:
> > > Just track down the VST version of Waldorf Attack.  A modeled 
SDS-V
> >is one
> > > of the presets, and you can alter the sounds to your heart's
> >content.
> > >
> > > Nate
> > >
> > > >From: Paul.Maddox.Mail-list@S...
> > > >Reply-To: Simmons_Drums@yahoogroups.com
> > > >To: Simmons_Drums@yahoogroups.com
> > > >Subject: Re: [Simmons Drums] Remake of famus simmons!
> > > >Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 14:35:33 +0100
> > > >
> > > >KD,
> > > >
> > > > > I wonder, would there be any interest/market for a remake
> > > > > of a set of simmons drums, either as a DIY kit or as ready
> > > > > made?
> > > >
> > > >Aside from the copyright issues, I'm sure people would go for 
it,
> >if it
> > > >sounded
> > > >good.
> > > >The biggest problem is going to be cost.
> > > >If you're talking just the drum brain, then it'd have to be 
less
> >than £250
> > > >to
> > > >compete with the stuff that goes on e-bay. and that's going to 
be

> >the
> > > >hardest
> > > >part..
> > > >
> > > >Paul
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
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