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used serge panel price?

used serge panel price?

2007-12-24 by Bakis Sirros

hello List,

Merry Christmas to all of you!

could you please tell me what is a normal price for a
pre sound transform systems Serge panel ?
without psu of course.
i know it depends on the modules included in the
panel, but i am just looking for rough guideline
prices...

thank you in advance,
best regards, :-)
Bakis.



Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory Geist
[Doepfer_a100] group owner
http://www.parallel-worlds-music.com
http://www.myspace.com/parallelworldsmusic
http://www.myspace.com/interconnectedmusic
http://www.myspace.com/memorygeist
http://www.DiN.org.uk
http://www.musicamaximamagnetica.com
http://www.shimarecords.co.uk
http://www.rubber.gr
Athens-Greece


____________________________________________________________________________________
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Re: used serge panel price?

2007-12-26 by Bakis Sirros

hello,
come on, no reply about this please?
a rough price?
thank you,
Bakis.
Show quoted textHide quoted text

--- Bakis Sirros <synth_freak_2000@...> wrote:

> hello List,
>
> Merry Christmas to all of you!
>
> could you please tell me what is a normal price for
> a
> pre sound transform systems Serge panel ?
> without psu of course.
> i know it depends on the modules included in the
> panel, but i am just looking for rough guideline
> prices...
>
> thank you in advance,
> best regards, :-)
> Bakis.
>
>
>
> Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected /
> Memory Geist
> [Doepfer_a100] group owner
> http://www.parallel-worlds-music.com
> http://www.myspace.com/parallelworldsmusic
> http://www.myspace.com/interconnectedmusic
> http://www.myspace.com/memorygeist
> http://www.DiN.org.uk
> http://www.musicamaximamagnetica.com
> http://www.shimarecords.co.uk
> http://www.rubber.gr
> Athens-Greece
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
>
http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>
>
>


Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory Geist
[Doepfer_a100] group owner
http://www.parallel-worlds-music.com
http://www.myspace.com/parallelworldsmusic
http://www.myspace.com/interconnectedmusic
http://www.myspace.com/memorygeist
http://www.DiN.org.uk
http://www.musicamaximamagnetica.com
http://www.shimarecords.co.uk
http://www.rubber.gr
Athens-Greece


____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Re: used serge panel price?

2007-12-26 by buchla300

--- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, Bakis Sirros
<synth_freak_2000@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> hello,
> come on, no reply about this please?
> a rough price?
> thank you,
> Bakis.
>
Hi Bakkis

It really is hard to say, but I would suggest between $800 ( for say a
sequencer and mixer or such - like) and $1800 (for say VCO's and
Filters etc)

Re: used serge panel price?

2007-12-26 by Bakis Sirros

hello David,

thank you!
so, at worse, will be around i guess 1800 USD? (if it
includes WAD, Freq.shifters, vco's, etc...)

Merry Christmas!!
i am buying two pre-STS serge panels soon...

btw, David, do you use a serge? of what age? how many
panels, etc? pics?

best regards, :-)
Bakis.

Show quoted textHide quoted text

--- buchla300 <david.morley@...> wrote:

> --- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, Bakis Sirros
> <synth_freak_2000@...> wrote:
> >
> > hello,
> > come on, no reply about this please?
> > a rough price?
> > thank you,
> > Bakis.
> >
> Hi Bakkis
>
> It really is hard to say, but I would suggest
> between $800 ( for say a
> sequencer and mixer or such - like) and $1800 (for
> say VCO's and
> Filters etc)
>
>
>
>


Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory Geist
[Doepfer_a100] group owner
http://www.parallel-worlds-music.com
http://www.myspace.com/parallelworldsmusic
http://www.myspace.com/interconnectedmusic
http://www.myspace.com/memorygeist
http://www.DiN.org.uk
http://www.musicamaximamagnetica.com
http://www.shimarecords.co.uk
http://www.rubber.gr
Athens-Greece


____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Re: used serge panel price?

2007-12-26 by Tim J

I think you would be very lucky to find a panel with a WAD and Freq shifter for under $2500 usd...
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> hello David,
>
> thank you!
> so, at worse, will be around i guess 1800 USD? (if it
> includes WAD, Freq.shifters, vco's, etc...)
>
> Merry Christmas!!
> i am buying two pre-STS serge panels soon...
>
> btw, David, do you use a serge? of what age? how many
> panels, etc? pics?
>
> best regards, :-)
> Bakis.
>
> --- buchla300
_________________________________________________________________
Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_122007

Re: used serge panel price?

2007-12-26 by data2action

it is entirely meaningless to cite prices independant of which
modules are included. a quick search of the messages on this group
for "FS" will give you a lot of information on what panels have been
offered for, w/ detail on which modules are more sought-after...
glancing quickly looks generally like TKBs go for around $1500,
everything else is averaging $2000 to $3000. seems to be fewer
panels offered up since Rex stopped offering custom panels, and one
would assume that prices would rise as supply diminishes.

b

Show quoted textHide quoted text

--- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, Bakis Sirros
<synth_freak_2000@...> wrote:
>
> hello,
> come on, no reply about this please?
> a rough price?
> thank you,
> Bakis.
>
> --- Bakis Sirros <synth_freak_2000@...> wrote:
>
> > hello List,
> >
> > Merry Christmas to all of you!
> >
> > could you please tell me what is a normal price for
> > a
> > pre sound transform systems Serge panel ?
> > without psu of course.
> > i know it depends on the modules included in the
> > panel, but i am just looking for rough guideline
> > prices...
> >
> > thank you in advance,
> > best regards, :-)
> > Bakis.
> >
> >
> >
> > Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected /
> > Memory Geist
> > [Doepfer_a100] group owner
> > http://www.parallel-worlds-music.com
> > http://www.myspace.com/parallelworldsmusic
> > http://www.myspace.com/interconnectedmusic
> > http://www.myspace.com/memorygeist
> > http://www.DiN.org.uk
> > http://www.musicamaximamagnetica.com
> > http://www.shimarecords.co.uk
> > http://www.rubber.gr
> > Athens-Greece
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
_____________________________________________________________________
_______________
> > Be a better friend, newshound, and
> > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
> >
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory Geist
> [Doepfer_a100] group owner
> http://www.parallel-worlds-music.com
> http://www.myspace.com/parallelworldsmusic
> http://www.myspace.com/interconnectedmusic
> http://www.myspace.com/memorygeist
> http://www.DiN.org.uk
> http://www.musicamaximamagnetica.com
> http://www.shimarecords.co.uk
> http://www.rubber.gr
> Athens-Greece
>
>
>
_____________________________________________________________________
_______________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>

Re: used serge panel price?

2007-12-26 by Tim J

Yup, this is a very true statement. You can see a price list on the sergefans (egres) site and give yourself a good idea of what a panel would have cost new. I would say its rather important to find out if the panel is in good working condition before you buy it. I have some old pre-sts panels and I think they sound the same as current panels. Do pre and post STS Serge panels actually fetch different prices?
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
>
> it is entirely meaningless to cite prices independant of which
> modules are included.
_________________________________________________________________
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http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/MTV/?source=text_Cause_Effect

Re: used serge panel price?

2007-12-26 by Tim J

Yup, this is a very true statement. You can see a price list on the sergefans (egres) site and give yourself a good idea of what a panel would have cost new. I would say its rather important to find out if the panel is in good working condition before you buy it. I have some old pre-sts panels and I think they sound the same as current panels. Do pre and post STS Serge panels actually fetch different prices?
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
>
> it is entirely meaningless to cite prices independant of which
> modules are included.
_________________________________________________________________
Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_122007

Re: used serge panel price?

2007-12-26 by darkstr1746@comcast.net

Attachments :
    no offense but as far as i'm concerned any pre STS panel price should be determined by the condition of the face plate and the overall condition of the circuit boards at that age you can bet that some things are going to have to be replaced all the way down to a full re-core. Personally i wouldn't pay over $800 to $1000 for any pre STS panel no matter what the condition. but then i don't have to worry about that 'cause i'm not in that game anymore. LOL

    j duval
    -------------- Original message ----------------------
    From: "buchla300" <david.morley@...>
    Show quoted textHide quoted text
    > --- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, Bakis Sirros
    > <synth_freak_2000@...> wrote:
    > >
    > > hello,
    > > come on, no reply about this please?
    > > a rough price?
    > > thank you,
    > > Bakis.
    > >
    > Hi Bakkis
    >
    > It really is hard to say, but I would suggest between $800 ( for say a
    > sequencer and mixer or such - like) and $1800 (for say VCO's and
    > Filters etc)
    >
    >
    >
    >

    Re: used serge panel price?

    2007-12-26 by amnesia

    I have a real early TKB and its got everything the later version has,
    its been inspected inside by Ken and he confirmed it has all the latest
    mods. It works great, you can see here
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kkSx42Xv7g



    darkstr1746@... wrote:
    Show quoted textHide quoted text
    >
    > no offense but as far as i'm concerned any pre STS panel price should
    > be determined by the condition of the face plate and the overall
    > condition of the circuit boards at that age you can bet that some
    > things are going to have to be replaced all the way down to a full
    > re-core. Personally i wouldn't pay over $800 to $1000 for any pre STS
    > panel no matter what the condition. but then i don't have to worry
    > about that 'cause i'm not in that game anymore. LOL
    >
    > j duval
    > -------------- Original message ----------------------
    > From: "buchla300" <david.morley@... <mailto:david.morley%40gmx.net>>
    > > --- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
    > <mailto:SergeModular%40yahoogroups.com>, Bakis Sirros
    > > <synth_freak_2000@...> wrote:
    > > >
    > > > hello,
    > > > come on, no reply about this please?
    > > > a rough price?
    > > > thank you,
    > > > Bakis.
    > > >
    > > Hi Bakkis
    > >
    > > It really is hard to say, but I would suggest between $800 ( for say a
    > > sequencer and mixer or such - like) and $1800 (for say VCO's and
    > > Filters etc)
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    >

    Re: used serge panel price?

    2007-12-27 by buchla300

    I stand by my valuations of $800 to $1800 in general
    If we are talking Pre STS then I think over $2000 would need it to be
    full of exceptional modules and this is unlikely although totally
    possible that one panel has JUST rare and expensive modules.
    So for anything more or less within normal realms (I mean you will
    usually have a mixer and some multiples whatever that really aren't
    worth much), a Pre STS panel will be hard to find for over $2.5k
    Having said that (and to answer your question Bakkis, Yes I use a
    serge) my early 6 panel system is available for $12000 if someone
    wants to pay $2k per panel ;-)
    Show quoted textHide quoted text
    --- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, amnesia <amni56@...> wrote:
    >
    > I have a real early TKB and its got everything the later version has,
    > its been inspected inside by Ken and he confirmed it has all the latest
    > mods. It works great, you can see here
    > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kkSx42Xv7g
    >
    >
    >
    > darkstr1746@... wrote:
    > >
    > > no offense but as far as i'm concerned any pre STS panel price should
    > > be determined by the condition of the face plate and the overall
    > > condition of the circuit boards at that age you can bet that some
    > > things are going to have to be replaced all the way down to a full
    > > re-core. Personally i wouldn't pay over $800 to $1000 for any pre STS
    > > panel no matter what the condition. but then i don't have to worry
    > > about that 'cause i'm not in that game anymore. LOL
    > >
    > > j duval
    > > -------------- Original message ----------------------
    > > From: "buchla300" <david.morley@... <mailto:david.morley%40gmx.net>>
    > > > --- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
    > > <mailto:SergeModular%40yahoogroups.com>, Bakis Sirros
    > > > <synth_freak_2000@> wrote:
    > > > >
    > > > > hello,
    > > > > come on, no reply about this please?
    > > > > a rough price?
    > > > > thank you,
    > > > > Bakis.
    > > > >
    > > > Hi Bakkis
    > > >
    > > > It really is hard to say, but I would suggest between $800 ( for
    say a
    > > > sequencer and mixer or such - like) and $1800 (for say VCO's and
    > > > Filters etc)
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    > >
    >

    Re: used serge panel price?

    2007-12-27 by evetsterueb

    The comments above are a good guide. Watch the newsgroups and ebay for
    a while. As far as the difference of opinion about prices for old
    panels, I've seen old panels fetch high prices. The main determinant
    seems to be how well the module selection matches the desires of the
    buyer, not age. This is a somewhat unique factor in the used Serge
    market since you're always dealing in groups of modules.

    I'm famiiar with STS panels from the Oakland era, as well as pre-STS
    panels from 1980/1981 (They were on Haight Street in San Francisco
    then), and 1980/1981 panels later rebuilt by STS and combined with
    newer circuits. All of it has held up very very well and is more alike
    than different. I also have a used panel from about 1977 or 1978 which
    has different banana jacks (not the Johnson jacks). These old jacks
    are secured by a barbed clip rather than a nut, and many of those
    needed to be replaced. The Johnson jacks are incredibly durable. If
    you find anything much older than that (panel graphics with lots of
    boxes and triangles) I suspect there is more variation.

    Rex has gradually incorporated some improvements into the electronics
    of some modules (AFIK mostly subtle changes and cleanups), turned some
    common modifications into standard features, transitioned to panel
    graphics on metal and introduced the deeper chassis boxes,
    discontinued some modules and created some new ones but overall the
    product line has been pretty consistent over time. If you are looking
    for certain modules (you mentioned a WAD) that will limit the date
    range. I wonder if anybody has a timeline of these things?
    Show quoted textHide quoted text
    --- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, "buchla300" <david.morley@...> wrote:
    >
    > I stand by my valuations of $800 to $1800 in general
    > If we are talking Pre STS then I think over $2000 would need it to be
    > full of exceptional modules and this is unlikely although totally
    > possible that one panel has JUST rare and expensive modules...

    Re: used serge panel price?

    2007-12-27 by Bakis Sirros

    hello List,

    many thanks to all for the detailed replys!!

    best regards, :-)
    Bakis.

    Show quoted textHide quoted text

    --- evetsterueb <synth@...> wrote:

    > The comments above are a good guide. Watch the
    > newsgroups and ebay for
    > a while. As far as the difference of opinion about
    > prices for old
    > panels, I've seen old panels fetch high prices. The
    > main determinant
    > seems to be how well the module selection matches
    > the desires of the
    > buyer, not age. This is a somewhat unique factor in
    > the used Serge
    > market since you're always dealing in groups of
    > modules.
    >
    > I'm famiiar with STS panels from the Oakland era, as
    > well as pre-STS
    > panels from 1980/1981 (They were on Haight Street in
    > San Francisco
    > then), and 1980/1981 panels later rebuilt by STS and
    > combined with
    > newer circuits. All of it has held up very very well
    > and is more alike
    > than different. I also have a used panel from about
    > 1977 or 1978 which
    > has different banana jacks (not the Johnson jacks).
    > These old jacks
    > are secured by a barbed clip rather than a nut, and
    > many of those
    > needed to be replaced. The Johnson jacks are
    > incredibly durable. If
    > you find anything much older than that (panel
    > graphics with lots of
    > boxes and triangles) I suspect there is more
    > variation.
    >
    > Rex has gradually incorporated some improvements
    > into the electronics
    > of some modules (AFIK mostly subtle changes and
    > cleanups), turned some
    > common modifications into standard features,
    > transitioned to panel
    > graphics on metal and introduced the deeper chassis
    > boxes,
    > discontinued some modules and created some new ones
    > but overall the
    > product line has been pretty consistent over time.
    > If you are looking
    > for certain modules (you mentioned a WAD) that will
    > limit the date
    > range. I wonder if anybody has a timeline of these
    > things?
    >
    >
    > --- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, "buchla300"
    > <david.morley@...> wrote:
    > >
    > > I stand by my valuations of $800 to $1800 in
    > general
    > > If we are talking Pre STS then I think over $2000
    > would need it to be
    > > full of exceptional modules and this is unlikely
    > although totally
    > > possible that one panel has JUST rare and
    > expensive modules...
    >
    >
    >
    >


    Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory Geist
    [Doepfer_a100] group owner
    http://www.parallel-worlds-music.com
    http://www.myspace.com/parallelworldsmusic
    http://www.myspace.com/interconnectedmusic
    http://www.myspace.com/memorygeist
    http://www.DiN.org.uk
    http://www.musicamaximamagnetica.com
    http://www.shimarecords.co.uk
    http://www.rubber.gr
    Athens-Greece


    ____________________________________________________________________________________
    Be a better friend, newshound, and
    know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

    Re: used serge panel price?

    2007-12-27 by darkstr1746@comcast.net

    Attachments :
      is this the six panel system that Peter is selling for a "friend"? If so, yeah, i'd cough up the cash for that one. LOL
      kind regards
      j duval
      -------------- Original message ----------------------
      From: "buchla300" <david.morley@...>
      Show quoted textHide quoted text
      > I stand by my valuations of $800 to $1800 in general
      > If we are talking Pre STS then I think over $2000 would need it to be
      > full of exceptional modules and this is unlikely although totally
      > possible that one panel has JUST rare and expensive modules.
      > So for anything more or less within normal realms (I mean you will
      > usually have a mixer and some multiples whatever that really aren't
      > worth much), a Pre STS panel will be hard to find for over $2.5k
      > Having said that (and to answer your question Bakkis, Yes I use a
      > serge) my early 6 panel system is available for $12000 if someone
      > wants to pay $2k per panel ;-)
      >
      > --- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, amnesia <amni56@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > I have a real early TKB and its got everything the later version has,
      > > its been inspected inside by Ken and he confirmed it has all the latest
      > > mods. It works great, you can see here
      > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kkSx42Xv7g
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > darkstr1746@... wrote:
      > > >
      > > > no offense but as far as i'm concerned any pre STS panel price should
      > > > be determined by the condition of the face plate and the overall
      > > > condition of the circuit boards at that age you can bet that some
      > > > things are going to have to be replaced all the way down to a full
      > > > re-core. Personally i wouldn't pay over $800 to $1000 for any pre STS
      > > > panel no matter what the condition. but then i don't have to worry
      > > > about that 'cause i'm not in that game anymore. LOL
      > > >
      > > > j duval
      > > > -------------- Original message ----------------------
      > > > From: "buchla300" <david.morley@... <mailto:david.morley%40gmx.net>>
      > > > > --- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
      > > > <mailto:SergeModular%40yahoogroups.com>, Bakis Sirros
      > > > > <synth_freak_2000@> wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > hello,
      > > > > > come on, no reply about this please?
      > > > > > a rough price?
      > > > > > thank you,
      > > > > > Bakis.
      > > > > >
      > > > > Hi Bakkis
      > > > >
      > > > > It really is hard to say, but I would suggest between $800 ( for
      > say a
      > > > > sequencer and mixer or such - like) and $1800 (for say VCO's and
      > > > > Filters etc)
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >

      Re: used serge panel price?

      2007-12-27 by legion01x

      I have been in the Serge "game" the last few years. ANY pannel is
      going to run $1500 on up up up. I'm talking broken modules at that
      price IF you can even see it for under $2k

      Any panel in good shape will fetch $2500 Pre STS or not. Maybe some
      here wouldn't pay that but there are plenty of folks who would and do
      especially in Europe where the US $$ is very low. $800-$1000 is a
      pipe dream and has the same odds as getting a $250 TB303. Sure you
      *might* find someone selling that for that price, but if the market
      found out it would be back to $2500 in a second.

      Good shape STS panels easily fetch the old price list prices.
      Especially when you consider custom panels are no longer being made.
      It is VERY true that the module complement and the buyer's desires
      influence prices a lot. Everyone seems to want an Animal panel or
      processing modules. Only those familiar with the CV wackiness will
      see the beauty of some of the more esoteric modules. So there is some
      variety. But folks WILL buy something they don't want, even at high
      prices, to get something they do want. That's the serge difference.


      The last new price list I saw had some single modules at $1250 each.
      One module. pre sts or not a panel with those types of things in it
      are going to be worth $$ to someone looking for one since your
      choices are buy the used high price or pay $5K+ and wait for a new
      one.

      Kind of makes $8000 for a Fenix or those current Buchla prices seem
      almost right.

      :)


      Show quoted textHide quoted text

      --- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, Bakis Sirros
      <synth_freak_2000@...> wrote:
      >
      > hello List,
      >
      > many thanks to all for the detailed replys!!
      >
      > best regards, :-)
      > Bakis.
      >
      >
      > --- evetsterueb <synth@...> wrote:
      >
      > > The comments above are a good guide. Watch the
      > > newsgroups and ebay for
      > > a while. As far as the difference of opinion about
      > > prices for old
      > > panels, I've seen old panels fetch high prices. The
      > > main determinant
      > > seems to be how well the module selection matches
      > > the desires of the
      > > buyer, not age. This is a somewhat unique factor in
      > > the used Serge
      > > market since you're always dealing in groups of
      > > modules.
      > >
      > > I'm famiiar with STS panels from the Oakland era, as
      > > well as pre-STS
      > > panels from 1980/1981 (They were on Haight Street in
      > > San Francisco
      > > then), and 1980/1981 panels later rebuilt by STS and
      > > combined with
      > > newer circuits. All of it has held up very very well
      > > and is more alike
      > > than different. I also have a used panel from about
      > > 1977 or 1978 which
      > > has different banana jacks (not the Johnson jacks).
      > > These old jacks
      > > are secured by a barbed clip rather than a nut, and
      > > many of those
      > > needed to be replaced. The Johnson jacks are
      > > incredibly durable. If
      > > you find anything much older than that (panel
      > > graphics with lots of
      > > boxes and triangles) I suspect there is more
      > > variation.
      > >
      > > Rex has gradually incorporated some improvements
      > > into the electronics
      > > of some modules (AFIK mostly subtle changes and
      > > cleanups), turned some
      > > common modifications into standard features,
      > > transitioned to panel
      > > graphics on metal and introduced the deeper chassis
      > > boxes,
      > > discontinued some modules and created some new ones
      > > but overall the
      > > product line has been pretty consistent over time.
      > > If you are looking
      > > for certain modules (you mentioned a WAD) that will
      > > limit the date
      > > range. I wonder if anybody has a timeline of these
      > > things?
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, "buchla300"
      > > <david.morley@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > I stand by my valuations of $800 to $1800 in
      > > general
      > > > If we are talking Pre STS then I think over $2000
      > > would need it to be
      > > > full of exceptional modules and this is unlikely
      > > although totally
      > > > possible that one panel has JUST rare and
      > > expensive modules...
      > >

      Re: used serge panel price?

      2007-12-27 by buchla300

      No! This is mine and it's staying here!
      http://tinyurl.com/27jclw
      Show quoted textHide quoted text
      --- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, darkstr1746@... wrote:
      >
      > is this the six panel system that Peter is selling for a "friend"?
      If so, yeah, i'd cough up the cash for that one. LOL
      > kind regards
      > j duval
      > -------------- Original message ----------------------
      > From: "buchla300" <david.morley@...>
      > > I stand by my valuations of $800 to $1800 in general
      > > If we are talking Pre STS then I think over $2000 would need it to be
      > > full of exceptional modules and this is unlikely although totally
      > > possible that one panel has JUST rare and expensive modules.
      > > So for anything more or less within normal realms (I mean you will
      > > usually have a mixer and some multiples whatever that really aren't
      > > worth much), a Pre STS panel will be hard to find for over $2.5k
      > > Having said that (and to answer your question Bakkis, Yes I use a
      > > serge) my early 6 panel system is available for $12000 if someone
      > > wants to pay $2k per panel ;-)
      > >
      > > --- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, amnesia <amni56@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > I have a real early TKB and its got everything the later version
      has,
      > > > its been inspected inside by Ken and he confirmed it has all the
      latest
      > > > mods. It works great, you can see here
      > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kkSx42Xv7g
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > darkstr1746@ wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > no offense but as far as i'm concerned any pre STS panel price
      should
      > > > > be determined by the condition of the face plate and the overall
      > > > > condition of the circuit boards at that age you can bet that some
      > > > > things are going to have to be replaced all the way down to a
      full
      > > > > re-core. Personally i wouldn't pay over $800 to $1000 for any
      pre STS
      > > > > panel no matter what the condition. but then i don't have to
      worry
      > > > > about that 'cause i'm not in that game anymore. LOL
      > > > >
      > > > > j duval
      > > > > -------------- Original message ----------------------
      > > > > From: "buchla300" <david.morley@ <mailto:david.morley%40gmx.net>>
      > > > > > --- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
      > > > > <mailto:SergeModular%40yahoogroups.com>, Bakis Sirros
      > > > > > <synth_freak_2000@> wrote:
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > hello,
      > > > > > > come on, no reply about this please?
      > > > > > > a rough price?
      > > > > > > thank you,
      > > > > > > Bakis.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > Hi Bakkis
      > > > > >
      > > > > > It really is hard to say, but I would suggest between $800 ( for
      > > say a
      > > > > > sequencer and mixer or such - like) and $1800 (for say VCO's and
      > > > > > Filters etc)
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >

      Re: used serge panel price?

      2007-12-27 by darkstr1746@comcast.net

      Attachments :
        LOL !! awww c'mon. you can give us a better picture than that! hahahaha
        j duval
        -------------- Original message ----------------------
        From: "buchla300" <david.morley@...>
        Show quoted textHide quoted text
        > No! This is mine and it's staying here!
        > http://tinyurl.com/27jclw
        > --- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, darkstr1746@... wrote:
        > >
        > > is this the six panel system that Peter is selling for a "friend"?
        > If so, yeah, i'd cough up the cash for that one. LOL
        > > kind regards
        > > j duval
        > > -------------- Original message ----------------------
        > > From: "buchla300" <david.morley@...>
        > > > I stand by my valuations of $800 to $1800 in general
        > > > If we are talking Pre STS then I think over $2000 would need it to be
        > > > full of exceptional modules and this is unlikely although totally
        > > > possible that one panel has JUST rare and expensive modules.
        > > > So for anything more or less within normal realms (I mean you will
        > > > usually have a mixer and some multiples whatever that really aren't
        > > > worth much), a Pre STS panel will be hard to find for over $2.5k
        > > > Having said that (and to answer your question Bakkis, Yes I use a
        > > > serge) my early 6 panel system is available for $12000 if someone
        > > > wants to pay $2k per panel ;-)
        > > >
        > > > --- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, amnesia <amni56@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > I have a real early TKB and its got everything the later version
        > has,
        > > > > its been inspected inside by Ken and he confirmed it has all the
        > latest
        > > > > mods. It works great, you can see here
        > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kkSx42Xv7g
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > darkstr1746@ wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > no offense but as far as i'm concerned any pre STS panel price
        > should
        > > > > > be determined by the condition of the face plate and the overall
        > > > > > condition of the circuit boards at that age you can bet that some
        > > > > > things are going to have to be replaced all the way down to a
        > full
        > > > > > re-core. Personally i wouldn't pay over $800 to $1000 for any
        > pre STS
        > > > > > panel no matter what the condition. but then i don't have to
        > worry
        > > > > > about that 'cause i'm not in that game anymore. LOL
        > > > > >
        > > > > > j duval
        > > > > > -------------- Original message ----------------------
        > > > > > From: "buchla300" <david.morley@ <mailto:david.morley%40gmx.net>>
        > > > > > > --- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
        > > > > > <mailto:SergeModular%40yahoogroups.com>, Bakis Sirros
        > > > > > > <synth_freak_2000@> wrote:
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > hello,
        > > > > > > > come on, no reply about this please?
        > > > > > > > a rough price?
        > > > > > > > thank you,
        > > > > > > > Bakis.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > Hi Bakkis
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > It really is hard to say, but I would suggest between $800 ( for
        > > > say a
        > > > > > > sequencer and mixer or such - like) and $1800 (for say VCO's and
        > > > > > > Filters etc)
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >

        Re: used serge panel price?

        2007-12-27 by buchla300

        Well, I'm in Europe and still find $2k per panel used a fairly hefty
        price for a "normal" panel pre STS. They have less features per panel
        due to the 6 vs 8 pots which means a 6 panel system like mine in
        practice has less per panel.

        Recently a half filled panel went for $550 or so. Analog Haven had
        nice panels for about $2k. Maybe my prices are too low, and prices do
        move quickly, but $2k for ANY old panel is a lot.
        I love my system, but if it was to bring me $15k, I'd find it hard to
        keep.
        $8k, I'll keep it thanks...but everything has it's price...
        Same reason I sold my Fenix. It became overvalued.
        Same reason I won't sell my Buchla 200. It would be very hard to over
        value that one ;-)
        Show quoted textHide quoted text
        --- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, "legion01x" <legionhwp@...> wrote:
        >
        > I have been in the Serge "game" the last few years. ANY pannel is
        > going to run $1500 on up up up. I'm talking broken modules at that
        > price IF you can even see it for under $2k
        >
        > Any panel in good shape will fetch $2500 Pre STS or not. Maybe some
        > here wouldn't pay that but there are plenty of folks who would and do
        > especially in Europe where the US $$ is very low. $800-$1000 is a
        > pipe dream and has the same odds as getting a $250 TB303. Sure you
        > *might* find someone selling that for that price, but if the market
        > found out it would be back to $2500 in a second.
        >
        > Good shape STS panels easily fetch the old price list prices.
        > Especially when you consider custom panels are no longer being made.
        > It is VERY true that the module complement and the buyer's desires
        > influence prices a lot. Everyone seems to want an Animal panel or
        > processing modules. Only those familiar with the CV wackiness will
        > see the beauty of some of the more esoteric modules. So there is some
        > variety. But folks WILL buy something they don't want, even at high
        > prices, to get something they do want. That's the serge difference.
        >
        >
        > The last new price list I saw had some single modules at $1250 each.
        > One module. pre sts or not a panel with those types of things in it
        > are going to be worth $$ to someone looking for one since your
        > choices are buy the used high price or pay $5K+ and wait for a new
        > one.
        >
        > Kind of makes $8000 for a Fenix or those current Buchla prices seem
        > almost right.
        >
        > :)
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, Bakis Sirros
        > <synth_freak_2000@> wrote:
        > >
        > > hello List,
        > >
        > > many thanks to all for the detailed replys!!
        > >
        > > best regards, :-)
        > > Bakis.
        > >
        > >
        > > --- evetsterueb <synth@> wrote:
        > >
        > > > The comments above are a good guide. Watch the
        > > > newsgroups and ebay for
        > > > a while. As far as the difference of opinion about
        > > > prices for old
        > > > panels, I've seen old panels fetch high prices. The
        > > > main determinant
        > > > seems to be how well the module selection matches
        > > > the desires of the
        > > > buyer, not age. This is a somewhat unique factor in
        > > > the used Serge
        > > > market since you're always dealing in groups of
        > > > modules.
        > > >
        > > > I'm famiiar with STS panels from the Oakland era, as
        > > > well as pre-STS
        > > > panels from 1980/1981 (They were on Haight Street in
        > > > San Francisco
        > > > then), and 1980/1981 panels later rebuilt by STS and
        > > > combined with
        > > > newer circuits. All of it has held up very very well
        > > > and is more alike
        > > > than different. I also have a used panel from about
        > > > 1977 or 1978 which
        > > > has different banana jacks (not the Johnson jacks).
        > > > These old jacks
        > > > are secured by a barbed clip rather than a nut, and
        > > > many of those
        > > > needed to be replaced. The Johnson jacks are
        > > > incredibly durable. If
        > > > you find anything much older than that (panel
        > > > graphics with lots of
        > > > boxes and triangles) I suspect there is more
        > > > variation.
        > > >
        > > > Rex has gradually incorporated some improvements
        > > > into the electronics
        > > > of some modules (AFIK mostly subtle changes and
        > > > cleanups), turned some
        > > > common modifications into standard features,
        > > > transitioned to panel
        > > > graphics on metal and introduced the deeper chassis
        > > > boxes,
        > > > discontinued some modules and created some new ones
        > > > but overall the
        > > > product line has been pretty consistent over time.
        > > > If you are looking
        > > > for certain modules (you mentioned a WAD) that will
        > > > limit the date
        > > > range. I wonder if anybody has a timeline of these
        > > > things?
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > --- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, "buchla300"
        > > > <david.morley@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > I stand by my valuations of $800 to $1800 in
        > > > general
        > > > > If we are talking Pre STS then I think over $2000
        > > > would need it to be
        > > > > full of exceptional modules and this is unlikely
        > > > although totally
        > > > > possible that one panel has JUST rare and
        > > > expensive modules...
        > > >
        >

        Re: used serge panel price?

        2007-12-27 by legion01x

        -
        I dont' disagree that $2k is a lot believe me but a new STS panel is
        around $4k+ which is more :)

        One correction, Analog Haven has never sold a panel for $2k. They
        currently have some pre STS pannels in for a minimum of $2500 each
        plus shipping no PS. I spoke to Chuck last week and he told me that
        is the cheapest they have ever had panels in for and he had a waiting
        list of people ready to buy them all. Mostly from Europe and one
        moron from phila pa. That would be me but lawd knows I've looked and
        looked and there is nothing out there with the modules I was looking
        for for under $3 grand



        -- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, "buchla300" <david.morley@...>
        wrote:
        Show quoted textHide quoted text
        >
        > Well, I'm in Europe and still find $2k per panel used a fairly
        hefty
        > price for a "normal" panel pre STS. They have less features per
        panel
        > due to the 6 vs 8 pots which means a 6 panel system like mine in
        > practice has less per panel.
        >
        > Recently a half filled panel went for $550 or so. Analog Haven had
        > nice panels for about $2k. Maybe my prices are too low, and prices
        do
        > move quickly, but $2k for ANY old panel is a lot.
        > I love my system, but if it was to bring me $15k, I'd find it hard
        to
        > keep.
        > $8k, I'll keep it thanks...but everything has it's price...
        > Same reason I sold my Fenix. It became overvalued.
        > Same reason I won't sell my Buchla 200. It would be very hard to
        over
        > value that one ;-)
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, "legion01x" <legionhwp@> wrote:
        > >
        > > I have been in the Serge "game" the last few years. ANY pannel is
        > > going to run $1500 on up up up. I'm talking broken modules at
        that
        > > price IF you can even see it for under $2k
        > >
        > > Any panel in good shape will fetch $2500 Pre STS or not. Maybe
        some
        > > here wouldn't pay that but there are plenty of folks who would
        and do
        > > especially in Europe where the US $$ is very low. $800-$1000 is a
        > > pipe dream and has the same odds as getting a $250 TB303. Sure
        you
        > > *might* find someone selling that for that price, but if the
        market
        > > found out it would be back to $2500 in a second.
        > >
        > > Good shape STS panels easily fetch the old price list prices.
        > > Especially when you consider custom panels are no longer being
        made.
        > > It is VERY true that the module complement and the buyer's
        desires
        > > influence prices a lot. Everyone seems to want an Animal panel or
        > > processing modules. Only those familiar with the CV wackiness
        will
        > > see the beauty of some of the more esoteric modules. So there is
        some
        > > variety. But folks WILL buy something they don't want, even at
        high
        > > prices, to get something they do want. That's the serge
        difference.
        > >
        > >
        > > The last new price list I saw had some single modules at $1250
        each.
        > > One module. pre sts or not a panel with those types of things in
        it
        > > are going to be worth $$ to someone looking for one since your
        > > choices are buy the used high price or pay $5K+ and wait for a
        new
        > > one.
        > >
        > > Kind of makes $8000 for a Fenix or those current Buchla prices
        seem
        > > almost right.
        > >
        > > :)
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, Bakis Sirros
        > > <synth_freak_2000@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > hello List,
        > > >
        > > > many thanks to all for the detailed replys!!
        > > >
        > > > best regards, :-)
        > > > Bakis.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > --- evetsterueb <synth@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > > The comments above are a good guide. Watch the
        > > > > newsgroups and ebay for
        > > > > a while. As far as the difference of opinion about
        > > > > prices for old
        > > > > panels, I've seen old panels fetch high prices. The
        > > > > main determinant
        > > > > seems to be how well the module selection matches
        > > > > the desires of the
        > > > > buyer, not age. This is a somewhat unique factor in
        > > > > the used Serge
        > > > > market since you're always dealing in groups of
        > > > > modules.
        > > > >
        > > > > I'm famiiar with STS panels from the Oakland era, as
        > > > > well as pre-STS
        > > > > panels from 1980/1981 (They were on Haight Street in
        > > > > San Francisco
        > > > > then), and 1980/1981 panels later rebuilt by STS and
        > > > > combined with
        > > > > newer circuits. All of it has held up very very well
        > > > > and is more alike
        > > > > than different. I also have a used panel from about
        > > > > 1977 or 1978 which
        > > > > has different banana jacks (not the Johnson jacks).
        > > > > These old jacks
        > > > > are secured by a barbed clip rather than a nut, and
        > > > > many of those
        > > > > needed to be replaced. The Johnson jacks are
        > > > > incredibly durable. If
        > > > > you find anything much older than that (panel
        > > > > graphics with lots of
        > > > > boxes and triangles) I suspect there is more
        > > > > variation.
        > > > >
        > > > > Rex has gradually incorporated some improvements
        > > > > into the electronics
        > > > > of some modules (AFIK mostly subtle changes and
        > > > > cleanups), turned some
        > > > > common modifications into standard features,
        > > > > transitioned to panel
        > > > > graphics on metal and introduced the deeper chassis
        > > > > boxes,
        > > > > discontinued some modules and created some new ones
        > > > > but overall the
        > > > > product line has been pretty consistent over time.
        > > > > If you are looking
        > > > > for certain modules (you mentioned a WAD) that will
        > > > > limit the date
        > > > > range. I wonder if anybody has a timeline of these
        > > > > things?
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > --- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, "buchla300"
        > > > > <david.morley@> wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > I stand by my valuations of $800 to $1800 in
        > > > > general
        > > > > > If we are talking Pre STS then I think over $2000
        > > > > would need it to be
        > > > > > full of exceptional modules and this is unlikely
        > > > > although totally
        > > > > > possible that one panel has JUST rare and
        > > > > expensive modules...
        > > > >
        > >
        >

        Re: used serge panel price?

        2007-12-27 by matthew carpenter

        Tonetweakers aka minime123@... recently raised their 4 panel 80's Serge from $8999 to $9999. It includes the GE Pitch Follower.

        On 12/27/07, legion01x <legionhwp@...> wrote:

        -
        I dont' disagree that $2k is a lot believe me but a new STS panel is
        around $4k+ which is more :)

        One correction, Analog Haven has never sold a panel for $2k. They
        currently have some pre STS pannels in for a minimum of $2500 each
        plus shipping no PS. I spoke to Chuck last week and he told me that
        is the cheapest they have ever had panels in for and he had a waiting
        list of people ready to buy them all. Mostly from Europe and one
        moron from phila pa. That would be me but lawd knows I've looked and
        looked and there is nothing out there with the modules I was looking
        for for under $3 grand

        -- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, "buchla300" <david.morley@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Well, I'm in Europe and still find $2k per panel used a fairly
        hefty
        > price for a "normal" panel pre STS. They have less features per
        panel
        > due to the 6 vs 8 pots which means a 6 panel system like mine in
        > practice has less per panel.
        >
        > Recently a half filled panel went for $550 or so. Analog Haven had
        > nice panels for about $2k. Maybe my prices are too low, and prices
        do
        > move quickly, but $2k for ANY old panel is a lot.
        > I love my system, but if it was to bring me $15k, I'd find it hard
        to
        > keep.
        > $8k, I'll keep it thanks...but everything has it's price...
        > Same reason I sold my Fenix. It became overvalued.
        > Same reason I won't sell my Buchla 200. It would be very hard to
        over
        > value that one ;-)
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, "legion01x" <legionhwp@> wrote:
        > >
        > > I have been in the Serge "game" the last few years. ANY pannel is
        > > going to run $1500 on up up up. I'm talking broken modules at
        that
        > > price IF you can even see it for under $2k
        > >
        > > Any panel in good shape will fetch $2500 Pre STS or not. Maybe
        some
        > > here wouldn't pay that but there are plenty of folks who would
        and do
        > > especially in Europe where the US $$ is very low. $800-$1000 is a
        > > pipe dream and has the same odds as getting a $250 TB303. Sure
        you
        > > *might* find someone selling that for that price, but if the
        market
        > > found out it would be back to $2500 in a second.
        > >
        > > Good shape STS panels easily fetch the old price list prices.
        > > Especially when you consider custom panels are no longer being
        made.
        > > It is VERY true that the module complement and the buyer's
        desires
        > > influence prices a lot. Everyone seems to want an Animal panel or
        > > processing modules. Only those familiar with the CV wackiness
        will
        > > see the beauty of some of the more esoteric modules. So there is
        some
        > > variety. But folks WILL buy something they don't want, even at
        high
        > > prices, to get something they do want. That's the serge
        difference.
        > >
        > >
        > > The last new price list I saw had some single modules at $1250
        each.
        > > One module. pre sts or not a panel with those types of things in
        it
        > > are going to be worth $$ to someone looking for one since your
        > > choices are buy the used high price or pay $5K+ and wait for a
        new
        > > one.
        > >
        > > Kind of makes $8000 for a Fenix or those current Buchla prices
        seem
        > > almost right.
        > >
        > > :)
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, Bakis Sirros
        > > <synth_freak_2000@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > hello List,
        > > >
        > > > many thanks to all for the detailed replys!!
        > > >
        > > > best regards, :-)
        > > > Bakis.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > --- evetsterueb <synth@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > > The comments above are a good guide. Watch the
        > > > > newsgroups and ebay for
        > > > > a while. As far as the difference of opinion about
        > > > > prices for old
        > > > > panels, I've seen old panels fetch high prices. The
        > > > > main determinant
        > > > > seems to be how well the module selection matches
        > > > > the desires of the
        > > > > buyer, not age. This is a somewhat unique factor in
        > > > > the used Serge
        > > > > market since you're always dealing in groups of
        > > > > modules.
        > > > >
        > > > > I'm famiiar with STS panels from the Oakland era, as
        > > > > well as pre-STS
        > > > > panels from 1980/1981 (They were on Haight Street in
        > > > > San Francisco
        > > > > then), and 1980/1981 panels later rebuilt by STS and
        > > > > combined with
        > > > > newer circuits. All of it has held up very very well
        > > > > and is more alike
        > > > > than different. I also have a used panel from about
        > > > > 1977 or 1978 which
        > > > > has different banana jacks (not the Johnson jacks).
        > > > > These old jacks
        > > > > are secured by a barbed clip rather than a nut, and
        > > > > many of those
        > > > > needed to be replaced. The Johnson jacks are
        > > > > incredibly durable. If
        > > > > you find anything much older than that (panel
        > > > > graphics with lots of
        > > > > boxes and triangles) I suspect there is more
        > > > > variation.
        > > > >
        > > > > Rex has gradually incorporated some improvements
        > > > > into the electronics
        > > > > of some modules (AFIK mostly subtle changes and
        > > > > cleanups), turned some
        > > > > common modifications into standard features,
        > > > > transitioned to panel
        > > > > graphics on metal and introduced the deeper chassis
        > > > > boxes,
        > > > > discontinued some modules and created some new ones
        > > > > but overall the
        > > > > product line has been pretty consistent over time.
        > > > > If you are looking
        > > > > for certain modules (you mentioned a WAD) that will
        > > > > limit the date
        > > > > range. I wonder if anybody has a timeline of these
        > > > > things?
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > --- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, "buchla300"
        > > > > <david.morley@> wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > I stand by my valuations of $800 to $1800 in
        > > > > general
        > > > > > If we are talking Pre STS then I think over $2000
        > > > > would need it to be
        > > > > > full of exceptional modules and this is unlikely
        > > > > although totally
        > > > > > possible that one panel has JUST rare and
        > > > > expensive modules...
        > > > >
        > >
        >


        Re: used serge panel price?

        2007-12-27 by matthew carpenter

        correction: it's minime123@...

        On 12/27/07, legion01x <legionhwp@... > wrote:

        -
        I dont' disagree that $2k is a lot believe me but a new STS panel is
        around $4k+ which is more :)

        One correction, Analog Haven has never sold a panel for $2k. They
        currently have some pre STS pannels in for a minimum of $2500 each
        plus shipping no PS. I spoke to Chuck last week and he told me that
        is the cheapest they have ever had panels in for and he had a waiting
        list of people ready to buy them all. Mostly from Europe and one
        moron from phila pa. That would be me but lawd knows I've looked and
        looked and there is nothing out there with the modules I was looking
        for for under $3 grand

        -- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, "buchla300" <david.morley@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Well, I'm in Europe and still find $2k per panel used a fairly
        hefty
        > price for a "normal" panel pre STS. They have less features per
        panel
        > due to the 6 vs 8 pots which means a 6 panel system like mine in
        > practice has less per panel.
        >
        > Recently a half filled panel went for $550 or so. Analog Haven had
        > nice panels for about $2k. Maybe my prices are too low, and prices
        do
        > move quickly, but $2k for ANY old panel is a lot.
        > I love my system, but if it was to bring me $15k, I'd find it hard
        to
        > keep.
        > $8k, I'll keep it thanks...but everything has it's price...
        > Same reason I sold my Fenix. It became overvalued.
        > Same reason I won't sell my Buchla 200. It would be very hard to
        over
        > value that one ;-)
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, "legion01x" <legionhwp@> wrote:
        > >
        > > I have been in the Serge "game" the last few years. ANY pannel is
        > > going to run $1500 on up up up. I'm talking broken modules at
        that
        > > price IF you can even see it for under $2k
        > >
        > > Any panel in good shape will fetch $2500 Pre STS or not. Maybe
        some
        > > here wouldn't pay that but there are plenty of folks who would
        and do
        > > especially in Europe where the US $$ is very low. $800-$1000 is a
        > > pipe dream and has the same odds as getting a $250 TB303. Sure
        you
        > > *might* find someone selling that for that price, but if the
        market
        > > found out it would be back to $2500 in a second.
        > >
        > > Good shape STS panels easily fetch the old price list prices.
        > > Especially when you consider custom panels are no longer being
        made.
        > > It is VERY true that the module complement and the buyer's
        desires
        > > influence prices a lot. Everyone seems to want an Animal panel or
        > > processing modules. Only those familiar with the CV wackiness
        will
        > > see the beauty of some of the more esoteric modules. So there is
        some
        > > variety. But folks WILL buy something they don't want, even at
        high
        > > prices, to get something they do want. That's the serge
        difference.
        > >
        > >
        > > The last new price list I saw had some single modules at $1250
        each.
        > > One module. pre sts or not a panel with those types of things in
        it
        > > are going to be worth $$ to someone looking for one since your
        > > choices are buy the used high price or pay $5K+ and wait for a
        new
        > > one.
        > >
        > > Kind of makes $8000 for a Fenix or those current Buchla prices
        seem
        > > almost right.
        > >
        > > :)
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, Bakis Sirros
        > > <synth_freak_2000@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > hello List,
        > > >
        > > > many thanks to all for the detailed replys!!
        > > >
        > > > best regards, :-)
        > > > Bakis.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > --- evetsterueb <synth@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > > The comments above are a good guide. Watch the
        > > > > newsgroups and ebay for
        > > > > a while. As far as the difference of opinion about
        > > > > prices for old
        > > > > panels, I've seen old panels fetch high prices. The
        > > > > main determinant
        > > > > seems to be how well the module selection matches
        > > > > the desires of the
        > > > > buyer, not age. This is a somewhat unique factor in
        > > > > the used Serge
        > > > > market since you're always dealing in groups of
        > > > > modules.
        > > > >
        > > > > I'm famiiar with STS panels from the Oakland era, as
        > > > > well as pre-STS
        > > > > panels from 1980/1981 (They were on Haight Street in
        > > > > San Francisco
        > > > > then), and 1980/1981 panels later rebuilt by STS and
        > > > > combined with
        > > > > newer circuits. All of it has held up very very well
        > > > > and is more alike
        > > > > than different. I also have a used panel from about
        > > > > 1977 or 1978 which
        > > > > has different banana jacks (not the Johnson jacks).
        > > > > These old jacks
        > > > > are secured by a barbed clip rather than a nut, and
        > > > > many of those
        > > > > needed to be replaced. The Johnson jacks are
        > > > > incredibly durable. If
        > > > > you find anything much older than that (panel
        > > > > graphics with lots of
        > > > > boxes and triangles) I suspect there is more
        > > > > variation.
        > > > >
        > > > > Rex has gradually incorporated some improvements
        > > > > into the electronics
        > > > > of some modules (AFIK mostly subtle changes and
        > > > > cleanups), turned some
        > > > > common modifications into standard features,
        > > > > transitioned to panel
        > > > > graphics on metal and introduced the deeper chassis
        > > > > boxes,
        > > > > discontinued some modules and created some new ones
        > > > > but overall the
        > > > > product line has been pretty consistent over time.
        > > > > If you are looking
        > > > > for certain modules (you mentioned a WAD) that will
        > > > > limit the date
        > > > > range. I wonder if anybody has a timeline of these
        > > > > things?
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > --- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, "buchla300"
        > > > > <david.morley@> wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > I stand by my valuations of $800 to $1800 in
        > > > > general
        > > > > > If we are talking Pre STS then I think over $2000
        > > > > would need it to be
        > > > > > full of exceptional modules and this is unlikely
        > > > > although totally
        > > > > > possible that one panel has JUST rare and
        > > > > expensive modules...
        > > > >
        > >
        >


        Re: used serge panel price?

        2007-12-27 by Bill Sequeira

        Wow - I bought an '80s 4-panel system with the GE Pitch Follower in excellent condition/checked by Kevin L for $5K in 2003. Not a bad return if it can be sold for that much.
        Cheers -- Bill
        __________________________________________
        Bill Sequeira, PHD





        On Dec 27, 2007, at 12:39 PM, matthew carpenter wrote:

        Tonetweakers aka minime123@... recently raised their 4 panel 80's Serge from $8999 to $9999. It includes the GE Pitch Follower.

        On 12/27/07, legion01x <legionhwp@...> wrote:

        -
        I dont' disagree that $2k is a lot believe me but a new STS panel is
        around $4k+ which is more :)

        One correction, Analog Haven has never sold a panel for $2k. They
        currently have some pre STS pannels in for a minimum of $2500 each
        plus shipping no PS. I spoke to Chuck last week and he told me that
        is the cheapest they have ever had panels in for and he had a waiting
        list of people ready to buy them all. Mostly from Europe and one
        moron from phila pa. That would be me but lawd knows I've looked and
        looked and there is nothing out there with the modules I was looking
        for for under $3 grand

        -- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, "buchla300" <david.morley@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Well, I'm in Europe and still find $2k per panel used a fairly
        hefty
        > price for a "normal" panel pre STS. They have less features per
        panel
        > due to the 6 vs 8 pots which means a 6 panel system like mine in
        > practice has less per panel.
        >
        > Recently a half filled panel went for $550 or so. Analog Haven had
        > nice panels for about $2k. Maybe my prices are too low, and prices
        do
        > move quickly, but $2k for ANY old panel is a lot.
        > I love my system, but if it was to bring me $15k, I'd find it hard
        to
        > keep.
        > $8k, I'll keep it thanks...but everything has it's price...
        > Same reason I sold my Fenix. It became overvalued.
        > Same reason I won't sell my Buchla 200. It would be very hard to
        over
        > value that one ;-)
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, "legion01x" <legionhwp@> wrote:
        > >
        > > I have been in the Serge "game" the last few years. ANY pannel is
        > > going to run $1500 on up up up. I'm talking broken modules at
        that
        > > price IF you can even see it for under $2k
        > >
        > > Any panel in good shape will fetch $2500 Pre STS or not. Maybe
        some
        > > here wouldn't pay that but there are plenty of folks who would
        and do
        > > especially in Europe where the US $$ is very low. $800-$1000 is a
        > > pipe dream and has the same odds as getting a $250 TB303. Sure
        you
        > > *might* find someone selling that for that price, but if the
        market
        > > found out it would be back to $2500 in a second.
        > >
        > > Good shape STS panels easily fetch the old price list prices.
        > > Especially when you consider custom panels are no longer being
        made.
        > > It is VERY true that the module complement and the buyer's
        desires
        > > influence prices a lot. Everyone seems to want an Animal panel or
        > > processing modules. Only those familiar with the CV wackiness
        will
        > > see the beauty of some of the more esoteric modules. So there is
        some
        > > variety. But folks WILL buy something they don't want, even at
        high
        > > prices, to get something they do want. That's the serge
        difference.
        > >
        > >
        > > The last new price list I saw had some single modules at $1250
        each.
        > > One module. pre sts or not a panel with those types of things in
        it
        > > are going to be worth $$ to someone looking for one since your
        > > choices are buy the used high price or pay $5K+ and wait for a
        new
        > > one.
        > >
        > > Kind of makes $8000 for a Fenix or those current Buchla prices
        seem
        > > almost right.
        > >
        > > :)
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, Bakis Sirros
        > > <synth_freak_2000@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > hello List,
        > > >
        > > > many thanks to all for the detailed replys!!
        > > >
        > > > best regards, :-)
        > > > Bakis.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > --- evetsterueb <synth@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > > The comments above are a good guide. Watch the
        > > > > newsgroups and ebay for
        > > > > a while. As far as the difference of opinion about
        > > > > prices for old
        > > > > panels, I've seen old panels fetch high prices. The
        > > > > main determinant
        > > > > seems to be how well the module selection matches
        > > > > the desires of the
        > > > > buyer, not age. This is a somewhat unique factor in
        > > > > the used Serge
        > > > > market since you're always dealing in groups of
        > > > > modules.
        > > > >
        > > > > I'm famiiar with STS panels from the Oakland era, as
        > > > > well as pre-STS
        > > > > panels from 1980/1981 (They were on Haight Street in
        > > > > San Francisco
        > > > > then), and 1980/1981 panels later rebuilt by STS and
        > > > > combined with
        > > > > newer circuits. All of it has held up very very well
        > > > > and is more alike
        > > > > than different. I also have a used panel from about
        > > > > 1977 or 1978 which
        > > > > has different banana jacks (not the Johnson jacks).
        > > > > These old jacks
        > > > > are secured by a barbed clip rather than a nut, and
        > > > > many of those
        > > > > needed to be replaced. The Johnson jacks are
        > > > > incredibly durable. If
        > > > > you find anything much older than that (panel
        > > > > graphics with lots of
        > > > > boxes and triangles) I suspect there is more
        > > > > variation.
        > > > >
        > > > > Rex has gradually incorporated some improvements
        > > > > into the electronics
        > > > > of some modules (AFIK mostly subtle changes and
        > > > > cleanups), turned some
        > > > > common modifications into standard features,
        > > > > transitioned to panel
        > > > > graphics on metal and introduced the deeper chassis
        > > > > boxes,
        > > > > discontinued some modules and created some new ones
        > > > > but overall the
        > > > > product line has been pretty consistent over time.
        > > > > If you are looking
        > > > > for certain modules (you mentioned a WAD) that will
        > > > > limit the date
        > > > > range. I wonder if anybody has a timeline of these
        > > > > things?
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > --- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, "buchla300"
        > > > > <david.morley@> wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > I stand by my valuations of $800 to $1800 in
        > > > > general
        > > > > > If we are talking Pre STS then I think over $2000
        > > > > would need it to be
        > > > > > full of exceptional modules and this is unlikely
        > > > > although totally
        > > > > > possible that one panel has JUST rare and
        > > > > expensive modules...
        > > > >
        > >
        >



        Re: used serge panel price?

        2007-12-27 by Y.:P

        I would tend to agree with the $2k+/panel evaluation;

        Firstly, as was pointed out, new panels DID(!!) sell for $4k+ and are no longer available hence, in my book, they're already worth more.

        Secondly, imho, there should be little difference made between pre-STS and STS panels (although I do realize that some design improvements were introduced with very little change in the featureset).. and even less difference between Oakland and Hartland.

        The only time I would expect to pay less for a panel is if it requires repair/overhaul, has a drastically different design (like the really old TKB that uses lead in the touch-plates) or is in poor shape esthetically.

        We're talking about a hand-crafted and well-designed precision instrument (which is why it stands the test of time quite well) and not some mass produced, inexpensive, generic wannabe.. Again I feel the need to draw the Stradivarius analogy.. would you expect to pay less for one because it's older? probably not

        my 2 cents
        yulian

        On 27-Dec-07, at 3:33 PM, legion01x wrote:

        -
        I dont' disagree that $2k is a lot believe me but a new STS panel is
        around $4k+ which is more :)

        One correction, Analog Haven has never sold a panel for $2k. They
        currently have some pre STS pannels in for a minimum of $2500 each
        plus shipping no PS. I spoke to Chuck last week and he told me that
        is the cheapest they have ever had panels in for and he had a waiting
        list of people ready to buy them all. Mostly from Europe and one
        moron from phila pa. That would be me but lawd knows I've looked and
        looked and there is nothing out there with the modules I was looking
        for for under $3 grand

        -- In SergeModular@ yahoogroups. com, "buchla300" <david.morley@ ...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Well, I'm in Europe and still find $2k per panel used a fairly
        hefty
        > price for a "normal" panel pre STS. They have less features per
        panel
        > due to the 6 vs 8 pots which means a 6 panel system like mine in
        > practice has less per panel.
        >
        > Recently a half filled panel went for $550 or so. Analog Haven had
        > nice panels for about $2k. Maybe my prices are too low, and prices
        do
        > move quickly, but $2k for ANY old panel is a lot.
        > I love my system, but if it was to bring me $15k, I'd find it hard
        to
        > keep.
        > $8k, I'll keep it thanks...but everything has it's price...
        > Same reason I sold my Fenix. It became overvalued.
        > Same reason I won't sell my Buchla 200. It would be very hard to
        over
        > value that one ;-)
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In SergeModular@ yahoogroups. com, "legion01x" <legionhwp@> wrote:
        > >
        > > I have been in the Serge "game" the last few years. ANY pannel is
        > > going to run $1500 on up up up. I'm talking broken modules at
        that
        > > price IF you can even see it for under $2k
        > >
        > > Any panel in good shape will fetch $2500 Pre STS or not. Maybe
        some
        > > here wouldn't pay that but there are plenty of folks who would
        and do
        > > especially in Europe where the US $$ is very low. $800-$1000 is a
        > > pipe dream and has the same odds as getting a $250 TB303. Sure
        you
        > > *might* find someone selling that for that price, but if the
        market
        > > found out it would be back to $2500 in a second.
        > >
        > > Good shape STS panels easily fetch the old price list prices.
        > > Especially when you consider custom panels are no longer being
        made.
        > > It is VERY true that the module complement and the buyer's
        desires
        > > influence prices a lot. Everyone seems to want an Animal panel or
        > > processing modules. Only those familiar with the CV wackiness
        will
        > > see the beauty of some of the more esoteric modules. So there is
        some
        > > variety. But folks WILL buy something they don't want, even at
        high
        > > prices, to get something they do want. That's the serge
        difference.
        > >
        > >
        > > The last new price list I saw had some single modules at $1250
        each.
        > > One module. pre sts or not a panel with those types of things in
        it
        > > are going to be worth $$ to someone looking for one since your
        > > choices are buy the used high price or pay $5K+ and wait for a
        new
        > > one.
        > >
        > > Kind of makes $8000 for a Fenix or those current Buchla prices
        seem
        > > almost right.
        > >
        > > :)
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In SergeModular@ yahoogroups. com, Bakis Sirros
        > > <synth_freak_ 2000@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > hello List,
        > > >
        > > > many thanks to all for the detailed replys!!
        > > >
        > > > best regards, :-)
        > > > Bakis.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > --- evetsterueb <synth@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > > The comments above are a good guide. Watch the
        > > > > newsgroups and ebay for
        > > > > a while. As far as the difference of opinion about
        > > > > prices for old
        > > > > panels, I've seen old panels fetch high prices. The
        > > > > main determinant
        > > > > seems to be how well the module selection matches
        > > > > the desires of the
        > > > > buyer, not age. This is a somewhat unique factor in
        > > > > the used Serge
        > > > > market since you're always dealing in groups of
        > > > > modules.
        > > > >
        > > > > I'm famiiar with STS panels from the Oakland era, as
        > > > > well as pre-STS
        > > > > panels from 1980/1981 (They were on Haight Street in
        > > > > San Francisco
        > > > > then), and 1980/1981 panels later rebuilt by STS and
        > > > > combined with
        > > > > newer circuits. All of it has held up very very well
        > > > > and is more alike
        > > > > than different. I also have a used panel from about
        > > > > 1977 or 1978 which
        > > > > has different banana jacks (not the Johnson jacks).
        > > > > These old jacks
        > > > > are secured by a barbed clip rather than a nut, and
        > > > > many of those
        > > > > needed to be replaced. The Johnson jacks are
        > > > > incredibly durable. If
        > > > > you find anything much older than that (panel
        > > > > graphics with lots of
        > > > > boxes and triangles) I suspect there is more
        > > > > variation.
        > > > >
        > > > > Rex has gradually incorporated some improvements
        > > > > into the electronics
        > > > > of some modules (AFIK mostly subtle changes and
        > > > > cleanups), turned some
        > > > > common modifications into standard features,
        > > > > transitioned to panel
        > > > > graphics on metal and introduced the deeper chassis
        > > > > boxes,
        > > > > discontinued some modules and created some new ones
        > > > > but overall the
        > > > > product line has been pretty consistent over time.
        > > > > If you are looking
        > > > > for certain modules (you mentioned a WAD) that will
        > > > > limit the date
        > > > > range. I wonder if anybody has a timeline of these
        > > > > things?
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > --- In SergeModular@ yahoogroups. com, "buchla300"
        > > > > <david.morley@ > wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > I stand by my valuations of $800 to $1800 in
        > > > > general
        > > > > > If we are talking Pre STS then I think over $2000
        > > > > would need it to be
        > > > > > full of exceptional modules and this is unlikely
        > > > > although totally
        > > > > > possible that one panel has JUST rare and
        > > > > expensive modules...
        > > > >
        > >
        >


        Re: used serge panel price?

        2007-12-27 by amnesia

        I am sure I paid $9k for my 5 panel Serge from Analog Haven last year.

        legion01x wrote:
        Show quoted textHide quoted text
        >
        > -
        > I dont' disagree that $2k is a lot believe me but a new STS panel is
        > around $4k+ which is more :)
        >
        > One correction, Analog Haven has never sold a panel for $2k. They
        > currently have some pre STS pannels in for a minimum of $2500 each
        > plus shipping no PS. I spoke to Chuck last week and he told me that
        > is the cheapest they have ever had panels in for and he had a waiting
        > list of people ready to buy them all. Mostly from Europe and one
        > moron from phila pa. That would be me but lawd knows I've looked and
        > looked and there is nothing out there with the modules I was looking
        > for for under $3 grand
        >
        > -- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
        > <mailto:SergeModular%40yahoogroups.com>, "buchla300" <david.morley@...>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > > Well, I'm in Europe and still find $2k per panel used a fairly
        > hefty
        > > price for a "normal" panel pre STS. They have less features per
        > panel
        > > due to the 6 vs 8 pots which means a 6 panel system like mine in
        > > practice has less per panel.
        > >
        > > Recently a half filled panel went for $550 or so. Analog Haven had
        > > nice panels for about $2k. Maybe my prices are too low, and prices
        > do
        > > move quickly, but $2k for ANY old panel is a lot.
        > > I love my system, but if it was to bring me $15k, I'd find it hard
        > to
        > > keep.
        > > $8k, I'll keep it thanks...but everything has it's price...
        > > Same reason I sold my Fenix. It became overvalued.
        > > Same reason I won't sell my Buchla 200. It would be very hard to
        > over
        > > value that one ;-)
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
        > <mailto:SergeModular%40yahoogroups.com>, "legion01x" <legionhwp@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > I have been in the Serge "game" the last few years. ANY pannel is
        > > > going to run $1500 on up up up. I'm talking broken modules at
        > that
        > > > price IF you can even see it for under $2k
        > > >
        > > > Any panel in good shape will fetch $2500 Pre STS or not. Maybe
        > some
        > > > here wouldn't pay that but there are plenty of folks who would
        > and do
        > > > especially in Europe where the US $$ is very low. $800-$1000 is a
        > > > pipe dream and has the same odds as getting a $250 TB303. Sure
        > you
        > > > *might* find someone selling that for that price, but if the
        > market
        > > > found out it would be back to $2500 in a second.
        > > >
        > > > Good shape STS panels easily fetch the old price list prices.
        > > > Especially when you consider custom panels are no longer being
        > made.
        > > > It is VERY true that the module complement and the buyer's
        > desires
        > > > influence prices a lot. Everyone seems to want an Animal panel or
        > > > processing modules. Only those familiar with the CV wackiness
        > will
        > > > see the beauty of some of the more esoteric modules. So there is
        > some
        > > > variety. But folks WILL buy something they don't want, even at
        > high
        > > > prices, to get something they do want. That's the serge
        > difference.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > The last new price list I saw had some single modules at $1250
        > each.
        > > > One module. pre sts or not a panel with those types of things in
        > it
        > > > are going to be worth $$ to someone looking for one since your
        > > > choices are buy the used high price or pay $5K+ and wait for a
        > new
        > > > one.
        > > >
        > > > Kind of makes $8000 for a Fenix or those current Buchla prices
        > seem
        > > > almost right.
        > > >
        > > > :)
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > --- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
        > <mailto:SergeModular%40yahoogroups.com>, Bakis Sirros
        > > > <synth_freak_2000@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > hello List,
        > > > >
        > > > > many thanks to all for the detailed replys!!
        > > > >
        > > > > best regards, :-)
        > > > > Bakis.
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > --- evetsterueb <synth@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > > The comments above are a good guide. Watch the
        > > > > > newsgroups and ebay for
        > > > > > a while. As far as the difference of opinion about
        > > > > > prices for old
        > > > > > panels, I've seen old panels fetch high prices. The
        > > > > > main determinant
        > > > > > seems to be how well the module selection matches
        > > > > > the desires of the
        > > > > > buyer, not age. This is a somewhat unique factor in
        > > > > > the used Serge
        > > > > > market since you're always dealing in groups of
        > > > > > modules.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > I'm famiiar with STS panels from the Oakland era, as
        > > > > > well as pre-STS
        > > > > > panels from 1980/1981 (They were on Haight Street in
        > > > > > San Francisco
        > > > > > then), and 1980/1981 panels later rebuilt by STS and
        > > > > > combined with
        > > > > > newer circuits. All of it has held up very very well
        > > > > > and is more alike
        > > > > > than different. I also have a used panel from about
        > > > > > 1977 or 1978 which
        > > > > > has different banana jacks (not the Johnson jacks).
        > > > > > These old jacks
        > > > > > are secured by a barbed clip rather than a nut, and
        > > > > > many of those
        > > > > > needed to be replaced. The Johnson jacks are
        > > > > > incredibly durable. If
        > > > > > you find anything much older than that (panel
        > > > > > graphics with lots of
        > > > > > boxes and triangles) I suspect there is more
        > > > > > variation.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Rex has gradually incorporated some improvements
        > > > > > into the electronics
        > > > > > of some modules (AFIK mostly subtle changes and
        > > > > > cleanups), turned some
        > > > > > common modifications into standard features,
        > > > > > transitioned to panel
        > > > > > graphics on metal and introduced the deeper chassis
        > > > > > boxes,
        > > > > > discontinued some modules and created some new ones
        > > > > > but overall the
        > > > > > product line has been pretty consistent over time.
        > > > > > If you are looking
        > > > > > for certain modules (you mentioned a WAD) that will
        > > > > > limit the date
        > > > > > range. I wonder if anybody has a timeline of these
        > > > > > things?
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > > --- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
        > <mailto:SergeModular%40yahoogroups.com>, "buchla300"
        > > > > > <david.morley@> wrote:
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > I stand by my valuations of $800 to $1800 in
        > > > > > general
        > > > > > > If we are talking Pre STS then I think over $2000
        > > > > > would need it to be
        > > > > > > full of exceptional modules and this is unlikely
        > > > > > although totally
        > > > > > > possible that one panel has JUST rare and
        > > > > > expensive modules...
        > > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
        >

        Re: used serge panel price?

        2007-12-27 by Bill Sequeira

        Hmm - there is a difference in quality between the pre-STS '70s/early '80s vintage and the Oakland/Hartland production - I would not pay the same price for a pre-STS panel, period.

        There are mechanical differences (chassis fit and mechanical rigidity), cosmetic (plastic wrap vs. chemical etching), washers/connectors/jack quality, and circuit cleanup/design improvement.

        After I bought my 4 '80s panels I swore I would never buy anything that was not Oakland or Hartland.

        That said, I do agree with Yulian - it is a fine instrument and cherished as such.

        But all is moot as the price is set by the market's offer and demand - the price is what the price is.


        Cheers -- Bill
        __________________________________________
        Bill Sequeira, PHD





        On Dec 27, 2007, at 12:54 PM, Y.:P wrote:

        I would tend to agree with the $2k+/panel evaluation;

        Firstly, as was pointed out, new panels DID(!!) sell for $4k+ and are no longer available hence, in my book, they're already worth more.

        Secondly, imho, there should be little difference made between pre-STS and STS panels (although I do realize that some design improvements were introduced with very little change in the featureset).. and even less difference between Oakland and Hartland.

        The only time I would expect to pay less for a panel is if it requires repair/overhaul, has a drastically different design (like the really old TKB that uses lead in the touch-plates) or is in poor shape esthetically.

        We're talking about a hand-crafted and well-designed precision instrument (which is why it stands the test of time quite well) and not some mass produced, inexpensive, generic wannabe.. Again I feel the need to draw the Stradivarius analogy.. would you expect to pay less for one because it's older? probably not

        my 2 cents
        yulian

        On 27-Dec-07, at 3:33 PM, legion01x wrote:

        -
        I dont' disagree that $2k is a lot believe me but a new STS panel is
        around $4k+ which is more :)

        One correction, Analog Haven has never sold a panel for $2k. They
        currently have some pre STS pannels in for a minimum of $2500 each
        plus shipping no PS. I spoke to Chuck last week and he told me that
        is the cheapest they have ever had panels in for and he had a waiting
        list of people ready to buy them all. Mostly from Europe and one
        moron from phila pa. That would be me but lawd knows I've looked and
        looked and there is nothing out there with the modules I was looking
        for for under $3 grand

        -- In SergeModular@ yahoogroups. com, "buchla300" <david.morley@ ...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Well, I'm in Europe and still find $2k per panel used a fairly
        hefty
        > price for a "normal" panel pre STS. They have less features per
        panel
        > due to the 6 vs 8 pots which means a 6 panel system like mine in
        > practice has less per panel.
        >
        > Recently a half filled panel went for $550 or so. Analog Haven had
        > nice panels for about $2k. Maybe my prices are too low, and prices
        do
        > move quickly, but $2k for ANY old panel is a lot.
        > I love my system, but if it was to bring me $15k, I'd find it hard
        to
        > keep.
        > $8k, I'll keep it thanks...but everything has it's price...
        > Same reason I sold my Fenix. It became overvalued.
        > Same reason I won't sell my Buchla 200. It would be very hard to
        over
        > value that one ;-)
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In SergeModular@ yahoogroups. com, "legion01x" <legionhwp@> wrote:
        > >
        > > I have been in the Serge "game" the last few years. ANY pannel is
        > > going to run $1500 on up up up. I'm talking broken modules at
        that
        > > price IF you can even see it for under $2k
        > >
        > > Any panel in good shape will fetch $2500 Pre STS or not. Maybe
        some
        > > here wouldn't pay that but there are plenty of folks who would
        and do
        > > especially in Europe where the US $$ is very low. $800-$1000 is a
        > > pipe dream and has the same odds as getting a $250 TB303. Sure
        you
        > > *might* find someone selling that for that price, but if the
        market
        > > found out it would be back to $2500 in a second.
        > >
        > > Good shape STS panels easily fetch the old price list prices.
        > > Especially when you consider custom panels are no longer being
        made.
        > > It is VERY true that the module complement and the buyer's
        desires
        > > influence prices a lot. Everyone seems to want an Animal panel or
        > > processing modules. Only those familiar with the CV wackiness
        will
        > > see the beauty of some of the more esoteric modules. So there is
        some
        > > variety. But folks WILL buy something they don't want, even at
        high
        > > prices, to get something they do want. That's the serge
        difference.
        > >
        > >
        > > The last new price list I saw had some single modules at $1250
        each.
        > > One module. pre sts or not a panel with those types of things in
        it
        > > are going to be worth $$ to someone looking for one since your
        > > choices are buy the used high price or pay $5K+ and wait for a
        new
        > > one.
        > >
        > > Kind of makes $8000 for a Fenix or those current Buchla prices
        seem
        > > almost right.
        > >
        > > :)
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In SergeModular@ yahoogroups. com, Bakis Sirros
        > > <synth_freak_ 2000@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > hello List,
        > > >
        > > > many thanks to all for the detailed replys!!
        > > >
        > > > best regards, :-)
        > > > Bakis.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > --- evetsterueb <synth@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > > The comments above are a good guide. Watch the
        > > > > newsgroups and ebay for
        > > > > a while. As far as the difference of opinion about
        > > > > prices for old
        > > > > panels, I've seen old panels fetch high prices. The
        > > > > main determinant
        > > > > seems to be how well the module selection matches
        > > > > the desires of the
        > > > > buyer, not age. This is a somewhat unique factor in
        > > > > the used Serge
        > > > > market since you're always dealing in groups of
        > > > > modules.
        > > > >
        > > > > I'm famiiar with STS panels from the Oakland era, as
        > > > > well as pre-STS
        > > > > panels from 1980/1981 (They were on Haight Street in
        > > > > San Francisco
        > > > > then), and 1980/1981 panels later rebuilt by STS and
        > > > > combined with
        > > > > newer circuits. All of it has held up very very well
        > > > > and is more alike
        > > > > than different. I also have a used panel from about
        > > > > 1977 or 1978 which
        > > > > has different banana jacks (not the Johnson jacks).
        > > > > These old jacks
        > > > > are secured by a barbed clip rather than a nut, and
        > > > > many of those
        > > > > needed to be replaced. The Johnson jacks are
        > > > > incredibly durable. If
        > > > > you find anything much older than that (panel
        > > > > graphics with lots of
        > > > > boxes and triangles) I suspect there is more
        > > > > variation.
        > > > >
        > > > > Rex has gradually incorporated some improvements
        > > > > into the electronics
        > > > > of some modules (AFIK mostly subtle changes and
        > > > > cleanups), turned some
        > > > > common modifications into standard features,
        > > > > transitioned to panel
        > > > > graphics on metal and introduced the deeper chassis
        > > > > boxes,
        > > > > discontinued some modules and created some new ones
        > > > > but overall the
        > > > > product line has been pretty consistent over time.
        > > > > If you are looking
        > > > > for certain modules (you mentioned a WAD) that will
        > > > > limit the date
        > > > > range. I wonder if anybody has a timeline of these
        > > > > things?
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > --- In SergeModular@ yahoogroups. com, "buchla300"
        > > > > <david.morley@ > wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > I stand by my valuations of $800 to $1800 in
        > > > > general
        > > > > > If we are talking Pre STS then I think over $2000
        > > > > would need it to be
        > > > > > full of exceptional modules and this is unlikely
        > > > > although totally
        > > > > > possible that one panel has JUST rare and
        > > > > expensive modules...
        > > > >
        > >
        >



        Re: used serge panel price?

        2007-12-27 by Y.:P

        Thank you Bill.

        I appreciate that clarification and I do agree on the differences from the mechanical standpoint. I was aware of the design cleanup/improvements.

        Did you have problems with your '80s kit?

        kindly
        Y

        On 27-Dec-07, at 4:07 PM, Bill Sequeira wrote:

        Hmm - there is a difference in quality between the pre-STS '70s/early '80s vintage and the Oakland/Hartland production - I would not pay the same price for a pre-STS panel, period.


        There are mechanical differences (chassis fit and mechanical rigidity), cosmetic (plastic wrap vs. chemical etching), washers/connectors/ jack quality, and circuit cleanup/design improvement.

        After I bought my 4 '80s panels I swore I would never buy anything that was not Oakland or Hartland.

        That said, I do agree with Yulian - it is a fine instrument and cherished as such.

        But all is moot as the price is set by the market's offer and demand - the price is what the price is.


        Cheers -- Bill
        ____________ _________ _________ _________ ___
        Bill Sequeira, PHD





        On Dec 27, 2007, at 12:54 PM, Y.:P wrote:

        I would tend to agree with the $2k+/panel evaluation;

        Firstly, as was pointed out, new panels DID(!!) sell for $4k+ and are no longer available hence, in my book, they're already worth more.

        Secondly, imho, there should be little difference made between pre-STS and STS panels (although I do realize that some design improvements were introduced with very little change in the featureset). . and even less difference between Oakland and Hartland.

        The only time I would expect to pay less for a panel is if it requires repair/overhaul, has a drastically different design (like the really old TKB that uses lead in the touch-plates) or is in poor shape esthetically.

        We're talking about a hand-crafted and well-designed precision instrument (which is why it stands the test of time quite well) and not some mass produced, inexpensive, generic wannabe.. Again I feel the need to draw the Stradivarius analogy.. would you expect to pay less for one because it's older? probably not

        my 2 cents
        yulian

        On 27-Dec-07, at 3:33 PM, legion01x wrote:

        -
        I dont' disagree that $2k is a lot believe me but a new STS panel is
        around $4k+ which is more :)

        One correction, Analog Haven has never sold a panel for $2k. They
        currently have some pre STS pannels in for a minimum of $2500 each
        plus shipping no PS. I spoke to Chuck last week and he told me that
        is the cheapest they have ever had panels in for and he had a waiting
        list of people ready to buy them all. Mostly from Europe and one
        moron from phila pa. That would be me but lawd knows I've looked and
        looked and there is nothing out there with the modules I was looking
        for for under $3 grand

        -- In SergeModular@ yahoogroups. com, "buchla300" <david.morley@ ...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Well, I'm in Europe and still find $2k per panel used a fairly
        hefty
        > price for a "normal" panel pre STS. They have less features per
        panel
        > due to the 6 vs 8 pots which means a 6 panel system like mine in
        > practice has less per panel.
        >
        > Recently a half filled panel went for $550 or so. Analog Haven had
        > nice panels for about $2k. Maybe my prices are too low, and prices
        do
        > move quickly, but $2k for ANY old panel is a lot.
        > I love my system, but if it was to bring me $15k, I'd find it hard
        to
        > keep.
        > $8k, I'll keep it thanks...but everything has it's price...
        > Same reason I sold my Fenix. It became overvalued.
        > Same reason I won't sell my Buchla 200. It would be very hard to
        over
        > value that one ;-)
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In SergeModular@ yahoogroups. com, "legion01x" <legionhwp@> wrote:
        > >
        > > I have been in the Serge "game" the last few years. ANY pannel is
        > > going to run $1500 on up up up. I'm talking broken modules at
        that
        > > price IF you can even see it for under $2k
        > >
        > > Any panel in good shape will fetch $2500 Pre STS or not. Maybe
        some
        > > here wouldn't pay that but there are plenty of folks who would
        and do
        > > especially in Europe where the US $$ is very low. $800-$1000 is a
        > > pipe dream and has the same odds as getting a $250 TB303. Sure
        you
        > > *might* find someone selling that for that price, but if the
        market
        > > found out it would be back to $2500 in a second.
        > >
        > > Good shape STS panels easily fetch the old price list prices.
        > > Especially when you consider custom panels are no longer being
        made.
        > > It is VERY true that the module complement and the buyer's
        desires
        > > influence prices a lot. Everyone seems to want an Animal panel or
        > > processing modules. Only those familiar with the CV wackiness
        will
        > > see the beauty of some of the more esoteric modules. So there is
        some
        > > variety. But folks WILL buy something they don't want, even at
        high
        > > prices, to get something they do want. That's the serge
        difference.
        > >
        > >
        > > The last new price list I saw had some single modules at $1250
        each.
        > > One module. pre sts or not a panel with those types of things in
        it
        > > are going to be worth $$ to someone looking for one since your
        > > choices are buy the used high price or pay $5K+ and wait for a
        new
        > > one.
        > >
        > > Kind of makes $8000 for a Fenix or those current Buchla prices
        seem
        > > almost right.
        > >
        > > :)
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In SergeModular@ yahoogroups. com, Bakis Sirros
        > > <synth_freak_ 2000@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > hello List,
        > > >
        > > > many thanks to all for the detailed replys!!
        > > >
        > > > best regards, :-)
        > > > Bakis.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > --- evetsterueb <synth@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > > The comments above are a good guide. Watch the
        > > > > newsgroups and ebay for
        > > > > a while. As far as the difference of opinion about
        > > > > prices for old
        > > > > panels, I've seen old panels fetch high prices. The
        > > > > main determinant
        > > > > seems to be how well the module selection matches
        > > > > the desires of the
        > > > > buyer, not age. This is a somewhat unique factor in
        > > > > the used Serge
        > > > > market since you're always dealing in groups of
        > > > > modules.
        > > > >
        > > > > I'm famiiar with STS panels from the Oakland era, as
        > > > > well as pre-STS
        > > > > panels from 1980/1981 (They were on Haight Street in
        > > > > San Francisco
        > > > > then), and 1980/1981 panels later rebuilt by STS and
        > > > > combined with
        > > > > newer circuits. All of it has held up very very well
        > > > > and is more alike
        > > > > than different. I also have a used panel from about
        > > > > 1977 or 1978 which
        > > > > has different banana jacks (not the Johnson jacks).
        > > > > These old jacks
        > > > > are secured by a barbed clip rather than a nut, and
        > > > > many of those
        > > > > needed to be replaced. The Johnson jacks are
        > > > > incredibly durable. If
        > > > > you find anything much older than that (panel
        > > > > graphics with lots of
        > > > > boxes and triangles) I suspect there is more
        > > > > variation.
        > > > >
        > > > > Rex has gradually incorporated some improvements
        > > > > into the electronics
        > > > > of some modules (AFIK mostly subtle changes and
        > > > > cleanups), turned some
        > > > > common modifications into standard features,
        > > > > transitioned to panel
        > > > > graphics on metal and introduced the deeper chassis
        > > > > boxes,
        > > > > discontinued some modules and created some new ones
        > > > > but overall the
        > > > > product line has been pretty consistent over time.
        > > > > If you are looking
        > > > > for certain modules (you mentioned a WAD) that will
        > > > > limit the date
        > > > > range. I wonder if anybody has a timeline of these
        > > > > things?
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > --- In SergeModular@ yahoogroups. com, "buchla300"
        > > > > <david.morley@ > wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > I stand by my valuations of $800 to $1800 in
        > > > > general
        > > > > > If we are talking Pre STS then I think over $2000
        > > > > would need it to be
        > > > > > full of exceptional modules and this is unlikely
        > > > > although totally
        > > > > > possible that one panel has JUST rare and
        > > > > expensive modules...
        > > > >
        > >
        >





        Re: used serge panel price?

        2007-12-27 by Steve Ridley

        Would it be right in thinking that the prices below $2000 were
        suggested by people who want to buy Serge panels and the prices
        above $2000 come from people who already have them?


        Steve

        Re: used serge panel price?

        2007-12-27 by Bill Sequeira

        I did actually, and it was quite quirky.

        When I hooked up the 4 panels to my large psd one of the panels would not light up correctly if the other three were present, and would light up ok if a subset of the three was present (but not all three).

        A few people cracked their heads trying to solve the problem, only to conclude that it was a random electrical problem, very difficult to troubleshoot and solve - read expensive because of the potential amount of time involved without a guaranteed success.

        Rex recommended a separation of said panel from the rest - hook the three to the large psd and hook the one panel to a dedicated small psd. Worked like a charm and the panel today works just fine. A ghost in the machine, sibling issues, oscillator envy, who knows. ;-)

        Seems some of the older panels are sensitive to such problems due to the quality of the old solder joints, flux quality, debris, etc.

        Cheers -- Bill
        __________________________________________
        Bill Sequeira, PHD





        On Dec 27, 2007, at 1:37 PM, Y.:P wrote:

        Thank you Bill.

        I appreciate that clarification and I do agree on the differences from the mechanical standpoint. I was aware of the design cleanup/improvements.

        Did you have problems with your '80s kit?

        kindly
        Y

        On 27-Dec-07, at 4:07 PM, Bill Sequeira wrote:

        Hmm - there is a difference in quality between the pre-STS '70s/early '80s vintage and the Oakland/Hartland production - I would not pay the same price for a pre-STS panel, period.


        There are mechanical differences (chassis fit and mechanical rigidity), cosmetic (plastic wrap vs. chemical etching), washers/connectors/ jack quality, and circuit cleanup/design improvement.

        After I bought my 4 '80s panels I swore I would never buy anything that was not Oakland or Hartland.

        That said, I do agree with Yulian - it is a fine instrument and cherished as such.

        But all is moot as the price is set by the market's offer and demand - the price is what the price is.


        Cheers -- Bill
        ____________ _________ _________ _________ ___
        Bill Sequeira, PHD





        On Dec 27, 2007, at 12:54 PM, Y.:P wrote:

        I would tend to agree with the $2k+/panel evaluation;

        Firstly, as was pointed out, new panels DID(!!) sell for $4k+ and are no longer available hence, in my book, they're already worth more.

        Secondly, imho, there should be little difference made between pre-STS and STS panels (although I do realize that some design improvements were introduced with very little change in the featureset). . and even less difference between Oakland and Hartland.

        The only time I would expect to pay less for a panel is if it requires repair/overhaul, has a drastically different design (like the really old TKB that uses lead in the touch-plates) or is in poor shape esthetically.

        We're talking about a hand-crafted and well-designed precision instrument (which is why it stands the test of time quite well) and not some mass produced, inexpensive, generic wannabe.. Again I feel the need to draw the Stradivarius analogy.. would you expect to pay less for one because it's older? probably not

        my 2 cents
        yulian

        On 27-Dec-07, at 3:33 PM, legion01x wrote:

        -
        I dont' disagree that $2k is a lot believe me but a new STS panel is
        around $4k+ which is more :)

        One correction, Analog Haven has never sold a panel for $2k. They
        currently have some pre STS pannels in for a minimum of $2500 each
        plus shipping no PS. I spoke to Chuck last week and he told me that
        is the cheapest they have ever had panels in for and he had a waiting
        list of people ready to buy them all. Mostly from Europe and one
        moron from phila pa. That would be me but lawd knows I've looked and
        looked and there is nothing out there with the modules I was looking
        for for under $3 grand

        -- In SergeModular@ yahoogroups. com, "buchla300" <david.morley@ ...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Well, I'm in Europe and still find $2k per panel used a fairly
        hefty
        > price for a "normal" panel pre STS. They have less features per
        panel
        > due to the 6 vs 8 pots which means a 6 panel system like mine in
        > practice has less per panel.
        >
        > Recently a half filled panel went for $550 or so. Analog Haven had
        > nice panels for about $2k. Maybe my prices are too low, and prices
        do
        > move quickly, but $2k for ANY old panel is a lot.
        > I love my system, but if it was to bring me $15k, I'd find it hard
        to
        > keep.
        > $8k, I'll keep it thanks...but everything has it's price...
        > Same reason I sold my Fenix. It became overvalued.
        > Same reason I won't sell my Buchla 200. It would be very hard to
        over
        > value that one ;-)
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In SergeModular@ yahoogroups. com, "legion01x" <legionhwp@> wrote:
        > >
        > > I have been in the Serge "game" the last few years. ANY pannel is
        > > going to run $1500 on up up up. I'm talking broken modules at
        that
        > > price IF you can even see it for under $2k
        > >
        > > Any panel in good shape will fetch $2500 Pre STS or not. Maybe
        some
        > > here wouldn't pay that but there are plenty of folks who would
        and do
        > > especially in Europe where the US $$ is very low. $800-$1000 is a
        > > pipe dream and has the same odds as getting a $250 TB303. Sure
        you
        > > *might* find someone selling that for that price, but if the
        market
        > > found out it would be back to $2500 in a second.
        > >
        > > Good shape STS panels easily fetch the old price list prices.
        > > Especially when you consider custom panels are no longer being
        made.
        > > It is VERY true that the module complement and the buyer's
        desires
        > > influence prices a lot. Everyone seems to want an Animal panel or
        > > processing modules. Only those familiar with the CV wackiness
        will
        > > see the beauty of some of the more esoteric modules. So there is
        some
        > > variety. But folks WILL buy something they don't want, even at
        high
        > > prices, to get something they do want. That's the serge
        difference.
        > >
        > >
        > > The last new price list I saw had some single modules at $1250
        each.
        > > One module. pre sts or not a panel with those types of things in
        it
        > > are going to be worth $$ to someone looking for one since your
        > > choices are buy the used high price or pay $5K+ and wait for a
        new
        > > one.
        > >
        > > Kind of makes $8000 for a Fenix or those current Buchla prices
        seem
        > > almost right.
        > >
        > > :)
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In SergeModular@ yahoogroups. com, Bakis Sirros
        > > <synth_freak_ 2000@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > hello List,
        > > >
        > > > many thanks to all for the detailed replys!!
        > > >
        > > > best regards, :-)
        > > > Bakis.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > --- evetsterueb <synth@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > > The comments above are a good guide. Watch the
        > > > > newsgroups and ebay for
        > > > > a while. As far as the difference of opinion about
        > > > > prices for old
        > > > > panels, I've seen old panels fetch high prices. The
        > > > > main determinant
        > > > > seems to be how well the module selection matches
        > > > > the desires of the
        > > > > buyer, not age. This is a somewhat unique factor in
        > > > > the used Serge
        > > > > market since you're always dealing in groups of
        > > > > modules.
        > > > >
        > > > > I'm famiiar with STS panels from the Oakland era, as
        > > > > well as pre-STS
        > > > > panels from 1980/1981 (They were on Haight Street in
        > > > > San Francisco
        > > > > then), and 1980/1981 panels later rebuilt by STS and
        > > > > combined with
        > > > > newer circuits. All of it has held up very very well
        > > > > and is more alike
        > > > > than different. I also have a used panel from about
        > > > > 1977 or 1978 which
        > > > > has different banana jacks (not the Johnson jacks).
        > > > > These old jacks
        > > > > are secured by a barbed clip rather than a nut, and
        > > > > many of those
        > > > > needed to be replaced. The Johnson jacks are
        > > > > incredibly durable. If
        > > > > you find anything much older than that (panel
        > > > > graphics with lots of
        > > > > boxes and triangles) I suspect there is more
        > > > > variation.
        > > > >
        > > > > Rex has gradually incorporated some improvements
        > > > > into the electronics
        > > > > of some modules (AFIK mostly subtle changes and
        > > > > cleanups), turned some
        > > > > common modifications into standard features,
        > > > > transitioned to panel
        > > > > graphics on metal and introduced the deeper chassis
        > > > > boxes,
        > > > > discontinued some modules and created some new ones
        > > > > but overall the
        > > > > product line has been pretty consistent over time.
        > > > > If you are looking
        > > > > for certain modules (you mentioned a WAD) that will
        > > > > limit the date
        > > > > range. I wonder if anybody has a timeline of these
        > > > > things?
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > --- In SergeModular@ yahoogroups. com, "buchla300"
        > > > > <david.morley@ > wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > I stand by my valuations of $800 to $1800 in
        > > > > general
        > > > > > If we are talking Pre STS then I think over $2000
        > > > > would need it to be
        > > > > > full of exceptional modules and this is unlikely
        > > > > although totally
        > > > > > possible that one panel has JUST rare and
        > > > > expensive modules...
        > > > >
        > >
        >






        Re: used serge panel price?

        2007-12-27 by Y.:P

        Interesting one Bill.. thanks for sharing that example. would be an interesting one to troubleshoot

        y_

        On 27-Dec-07, at 7:24 PM, Bill Sequeira wrote:

        I did actually, and it was quite quirky.


        When I hooked up the 4 panels to my large psd one of the panels would not light up correctly if the other three were present, and would light up ok if a subset of the three was present (but not all three).

        A few people cracked their heads trying to solve the problem, only to conclude that it was a random electrical problem, very difficult to troubleshoot and solve - read expensive because of the potential amount of time involved without a guaranteed success.

        Rex recommended a separation of said panel from the rest - hook the three to the large psd and hook the one panel to a dedicated small psd. Worked like a charm and the panel today works just fine. A ghost in the machine, sibling issues, oscillator envy, who knows. ;-)

        Seems some of the older panels are sensitive to such problems due to the quality of the old solder joints, flux quality, debris, etc.

        Cheers -- Bill
        ____________ _________ _________ _________ ___
        Bill Sequeira, PHD





        On Dec 27, 2007, at 1:37 PM, Y.:P wrote:

        Thank you Bill.

        I appreciate that clarification and I do agree on the differences from the mechanical standpoint. I was aware of the design cleanup/improvement s.

        Did you have problems with your '80s kit?

        kindly
        Y

        On 27-Dec-07, at 4:07 PM, Bill Sequeira wrote:

        Hmm - there is a difference in quality between the pre-STS '70s/early '80s vintage and the Oakland/Hartland production - I would not pay the same price for a pre-STS panel, period.


        There are mechanical differences (chassis fit and mechanical rigidity), cosmetic (plastic wrap vs. chemical etching), washers/connectors/ jack quality, and circuit cleanup/design improvement.

        After I bought my 4 '80s panels I swore I would never buy anything that was not Oakland or Hartland.

        That said, I do agree with Yulian - it is a fine instrument and cherished as such.

        But all is moot as the price is set by the market's offer and demand - the price is what the price is.


        Cheers -- Bill
        ____________ _________ _________ _________ ___
        Bill Sequeira, PHD





        On Dec 27, 2007, at 12:54 PM, Y.:P wrote:

        I would tend to agree with the $2k+/panel evaluation;

        Firstly, as was pointed out, new panels DID(!!) sell for $4k+ and are no longer available hence, in my book, they're already worth more.

        Secondly, imho, there should be little difference made between pre-STS and STS panels (although I do realize that some design improvements were introduced with very little change in the featureset). . and even less difference between Oakland and Hartland.

        The only time I would expect to pay less for a panel is if it requires repair/overhaul, has a drastically different design (like the really old TKB that uses lead in the touch-plates) or is in poor shape esthetically.

        We're talking about a hand-crafted and well-designed precision instrument (which is why it stands the test of time quite well) and not some mass produced, inexpensive, generic wannabe.. Again I feel the need to draw the Stradivarius analogy.. would you expect to pay less for one because it's older? probably not

        my 2 cents
        yulian

        On 27-Dec-07, at 3:33 PM, legion01x wrote:

        -
        I dont' disagree that $2k is a lot believe me but a new STS panel is
        around $4k+ which is more :)

        One correction, Analog Haven has never sold a panel for $2k. They
        currently have some pre STS pannels in for a minimum of $2500 each
        plus shipping no PS. I spoke to Chuck last week and he told me that
        is the cheapest they have ever had panels in for and he had a waiting
        list of people ready to buy them all. Mostly from Europe and one
        moron from phila pa. That would be me but lawd knows I've looked and
        looked and there is nothing out there with the modules I was looking
        for for under $3 grand

        -- In SergeModular@ yahoogroups. com, "buchla300" <david.morley@ ...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Well, I'm in Europe and still find $2k per panel used a fairly
        hefty
        > price for a "normal" panel pre STS. They have less features per
        panel
        > due to the 6 vs 8 pots which means a 6 panel system like mine in
        > practice has less per panel.
        >
        > Recently a half filled panel went for $550 or so. Analog Haven had
        > nice panels for about $2k. Maybe my prices are too low, and prices
        do
        > move quickly, but $2k for ANY old panel is a lot.
        > I love my system, but if it was to bring me $15k, I'd find it hard
        to
        > keep.
        > $8k, I'll keep it thanks...but everything has it's price...
        > Same reason I sold my Fenix. It became overvalued.
        > Same reason I won't sell my Buchla 200. It would be very hard to
        over
        > value that one ;-)
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In SergeModular@ yahoogroups. com, "legion01x" <legionhwp@> wrote:
        > >
        > > I have been in the Serge "game" the last few years. ANY pannel is
        > > going to run $1500 on up up up. I'm talking broken modules at
        that
        > > price IF you can even see it for under $2k
        > >
        > > Any panel in good shape will fetch $2500 Pre STS or not. Maybe
        some
        > > here wouldn't pay that but there are plenty of folks who would
        and do
        > > especially in Europe where the US $$ is very low. $800-$1000 is a
        > > pipe dream and has the same odds as getting a $250 TB303. Sure
        you
        > > *might* find someone selling that for that price, but if the
        market
        > > found out it would be back to $2500 in a second.
        > >
        > > Good shape STS panels easily fetch the old price list prices.
        > > Especially when you consider custom panels are no longer being
        made.
        > > It is VERY true that the module complement and the buyer's
        desires
        > > influence prices a lot. Everyone seems to want an Animal panel or
        > > processing modules. Only those familiar with the CV wackiness
        will
        > > see the beauty of some of the more esoteric modules. So there is
        some
        > > variety. But folks WILL buy something they don't want, even at
        high
        > > prices, to get something they do want. That's the serge
        difference.
        > >
        > >
        > > The last new price list I saw had some single modules at $1250
        each.
        > > One module. pre sts or not a panel with those types of things in
        it
        > > are going to be worth $$ to someone looking for one since your
        > > choices are buy the used high price or pay $5K+ and wait for a
        new
        > > one.
        > >
        > > Kind of makes $8000 for a Fenix or those current Buchla prices
        seem
        > > almost right.
        > >
        > > :)
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In SergeModular@ yahoogroups. com, Bakis Sirros
        > > <synth_freak_ 2000@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > hello List,
        > > >
        > > > many thanks to all for the detailed replys!!
        > > >
        > > > best regards, :-)
        > > > Bakis.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > --- evetsterueb <synth@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > > The comments above are a good guide. Watch the
        > > > > newsgroups and ebay for
        > > > > a while. As far as the difference of opinion about
        > > > > prices for old
        > > > > panels, I've seen old panels fetch high prices. The
        > > > > main determinant
        > > > > seems to be how well the module selection matches
        > > > > the desires of the
        > > > > buyer, not age. This is a somewhat unique factor in
        > > > > the used Serge
        > > > > market since you're always dealing in groups of
        > > > > modules.
        > > > >
        > > > > I'm famiiar with STS panels from the Oakland era, as
        > > > > well as pre-STS
        > > > > panels from 1980/1981 (They were on Haight Street in
        > > > > San Francisco
        > > > > then), and 1980/1981 panels later rebuilt by STS and
        > > > > combined with
        > > > > newer circuits. All of it has held up very very well
        > > > > and is more alike
        > > > > than different. I also have a used panel from about
        > > > > 1977 or 1978 which
        > > > > has different banana jacks (not the Johnson jacks).
        > > > > These old jacks
        > > > > are secured by a barbed clip rather than a nut, and
        > > > > many of those
        > > > > needed to be replaced. The Johnson jacks are
        > > > > incredibly durable. If
        > > > > you find anything much older than that (panel
        > > > > graphics with lots of
        > > > > boxes and triangles) I suspect there is more
        > > > > variation.
        > > > >
        > > > > Rex has gradually incorporated some improvements
        > > > > into the electronics
        > > > > of some modules (AFIK mostly subtle changes and
        > > > > cleanups), turned some
        > > > > common modifications into standard features,
        > > > > transitioned to panel
        > > > > graphics on metal and introduced the deeper chassis
        > > > > boxes,
        > > > > discontinued some modules and created some new ones
        > > > > but overall the
        > > > > product line has been pretty consistent over time.
        > > > > If you are looking
        > > > > for certain modules (you mentioned a WAD) that will
        > > > > limit the date
        > > > > range. I wonder if anybody has a timeline of these
        > > > > things?
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > --- In SergeModular@ yahoogroups. com, "buchla300"
        > > > > <david.morley@ > wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > I stand by my valuations of $800 to $1800 in
        > > > > general
        > > > > > If we are talking Pre STS then I think over $2000
        > > > > would need it to be
        > > > > > full of exceptional modules and this is unlikely
        > > > > although totally
        > > > > > possible that one panel has JUST rare and
        > > > > expensive modules...
        > > > >
        > >
        >








        Re: used serge panel price?

        2007-12-28 by evetsterueb

        Sounds like some thing's drawing more than a usual amount of power.
        Sometimes old capacitors leak current. If something is really off you
        might be able to feel heat on components.

        If you're competent to do this sort of thing you could use an ammeter
        to measure current draw at the moment when the panel's turned on after
        having been off for a while. Measure the panel as a whole to decide if
        it's the +12 or the -12 that's getting loaded down. Then unwire half
        the modules and figure out which half uses more. Eventually narrow it
        down to one module. Try replacing caps. Of course, you or your pals
        have probably thought of all this before.

        You have it working, best not to mess with it.
        Show quoted textHide quoted text
        --- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, Bill Sequeira <bill@...> wrote:
        >
        > I did actually, and it was quite quirky.
        >
        > When I hooked up the 4 panels to my large psd one of the panels would
        > not light up correctly if the other three were present, and would
        > light up ok if a subset of the three was present (but not all three).
        >
        > A few people cracked their heads trying to solve the problem, only to
        > conclude that it was a random electrical problem, very difficult to
        > troubleshoot and solve - read expensive because of the potential
        > amount of time involved without a guaranteed success.
        >
        > Rex recommended a separation of said panel from the rest - hook the
        > three to the large psd and hook the one panel to a dedicated small
        > psd. Worked like a charm and the panel today works just fine. A
        > ghost in the machine, sibling issues, oscillator envy, who knows. ;-)
        >
        > Seems some of the older panels are sensitive to such problems due to
        > the quality of the old solder joints, flux quality, debris, etc.
        >
        >
        > Cheers -- Bill
        > __________________________________________
        > Bill Sequeira, PHD
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > On Dec 27, 2007, at 1:37 PM, Y.:P wrote:
        >
        > > Thank you Bill.
        > >
        > > I appreciate that clarification and I do agree on the differences
        > > from the mechanical standpoint. I was aware of the design cleanup/
        > > improvements.
        > >
        > > Did you have problems with your '80s kit?
        > >
        > > kindly
        > > Y
        > >
        > > On 27-Dec-07, at 4:07 PM, Bill Sequeira wrote:
        > >
        > > Hmm - there is a difference in quality between the pre-STS '70s/
        > > early '80s vintage and the Oakland/Hartland production - I would not
        > > pay the same price for a pre-STS panel, period.
        > >
        > >
        > > There are mechanical differences (chassis fit and mechanical
        > > rigidity), cosmetic (plastic wrap vs. chemical etching), washers/
        > > connectors/jack quality, and circuit cleanup/design improvement.
        > >
        > > After I bought my 4 '80s panels I swore I would never buy anything
        > > that was not Oakland or Hartland.
        > >
        > > That said, I do agree with Yulian - it is a fine instrument and
        > > cherished as such.
        > >
        > > But all is moot as the price is set by the market's offer and demand
        > > - the price is what the price is.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Cheers -- Bill
        > > __________________________________________
        > > Bill Sequeira, PHD
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > On Dec 27, 2007, at 12:54 PM, Y.:P wrote:
        > >
        > >> I would tend to agree with the $2k+/panel evaluation;
        > >>
        > >> Firstly, as was pointed out, new panels DID(!!) sell for $4k+ and
        > >> are no longer available hence, in my book, they're already worth
        > >> more.
        > >>
        > >> Secondly, imho, there should be little difference made between pre-
        > >> STS and STS panels (although I do realize that some design
        > >> improvements were introduced with very little change in the
        > >> featureset).. and even less difference between Oakland and Hartland.
        > >>
        > >> The only time I would expect to pay less for a panel is if it
        > >> requires repair/overhaul, has a drastically different design (like
        > >> the really old TKB that uses lead in the touch-plates) or is in
        > >> poor shape esthetically.
        > >>
        > >> We're talking about a hand-crafted and well-designed precision
        > >> instrument (which is why it stands the test of time quite well) and
        > >> not some mass produced, inexpensive, generic wannabe.. Again I feel
        > >> the need to draw the Stradivarius analogy.. would you expect to pay
        > >> less for one because it's older? probably not
        > >>
        > >> my 2 cents
        > >> yulian
        > >>
        > >> On 27-Dec-07, at 3:33 PM, legion01x wrote:
        > >>
        > >> -
        > >> I dont' disagree that $2k is a lot believe me but a new STS panel is
        > >> around $4k+ which is more :)
        > >>
        > >> One correction, Analog Haven has never sold a panel for $2k. They
        > >> currently have some pre STS pannels in for a minimum of $2500 each
        > >> plus shipping no PS. I spoke to Chuck last week and he told me that
        > >> is the cheapest they have ever had panels in for and he had a waiting
        > >> list of people ready to buy them all. Mostly from Europe and one
        > >> moron from phila pa. That would be me but lawd knows I've looked and
        > >> looked and there is nothing out there with the modules I was looking
        > >> for for under $3 grand
        > >>
        > >> -- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, "buchla300" <david.morley@>
        > >> wrote:
        > >> >
        > >> > Well, I'm in Europe and still find $2k per panel used a fairly
        > >> hefty
        > >> > price for a "normal" panel pre STS. They have less features per
        > >> panel
        > >> > due to the 6 vs 8 pots which means a 6 panel system like mine in
        > >> > practice has less per panel.
        > >> >
        > >> > Recently a half filled panel went for $550 or so. Analog Haven had
        > >> > nice panels for about $2k. Maybe my prices are too low, and prices
        > >> do
        > >> > move quickly, but $2k for ANY old panel is a lot.
        > >> > I love my system, but if it was to bring me $15k, I'd find it hard
        > >> to
        > >> > keep.
        > >> > $8k, I'll keep it thanks...but everything has it's price...
        > >> > Same reason I sold my Fenix. It became overvalued.
        > >> > Same reason I won't sell my Buchla 200. It would be very hard to
        > >> over
        > >> > value that one ;-)
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >> > --- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, "legion01x" <legionhwp@>
        > >> wrote:
        > >> > >
        > >> > > I have been in the Serge "game" the last few years. ANY pannel is
        > >> > > going to run $1500 on up up up. I'm talking broken modules at
        > >> that
        > >> > > price IF you can even see it for under $2k
        > >> > >
        > >> > > Any panel in good shape will fetch $2500 Pre STS or not. Maybe
        > >> some
        > >> > > here wouldn't pay that but there are plenty of folks who would
        > >> and do
        > >> > > especially in Europe where the US $$ is very low. $800-$1000 is a
        > >> > > pipe dream and has the same odds as getting a $250 TB303. Sure
        > >> you
        > >> > > *might* find someone selling that for that price, but if the
        > >> market
        > >> > > found out it would be back to $2500 in a second.
        > >> > >
        > >> > > Good shape STS panels easily fetch the old price list prices.
        > >> > > Especially when you consider custom panels are no longer being
        > >> made.
        > >> > > It is VERY true that the module complement and the buyer's
        > >> desires
        > >> > > influence prices a lot. Everyone seems to want an Animal panel or
        > >> > > processing modules. Only those familiar with the CV wackiness
        > >> will
        > >> > > see the beauty of some of the more esoteric modules. So there is
        > >> some
        > >> > > variety. But folks WILL buy something they don't want, even at
        > >> high
        > >> > > prices, to get something they do want. That's the serge
        > >> difference.
        > >> > >
        > >> > >
        > >> > > The last new price list I saw had some single modules at $1250
        > >> each.
        > >> > > One module. pre sts or not a panel with those types of things in
        > >> it
        > >> > > are going to be worth $$ to someone looking for one since your
        > >> > > choices are buy the used high price or pay $5K+ and wait for a
        > >> new
        > >> > > one.
        > >> > >
        > >> > > Kind of makes $8000 for a Fenix or those current Buchla prices
        > >> seem
        > >> > > almost right.
        > >> > >
        > >> > > :)
        > >> > >
        > >> > >
        > >> > >
        > >> > > --- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, Bakis Sirros
        > >> > > <synth_freak_2000@> wrote:
        > >> > > >
        > >> > > > hello List,
        > >> > > >
        > >> > > > many thanks to all for the detailed replys!!
        > >> > > >
        > >> > > > best regards, :-)
        > >> > > > Bakis.
        > >> > > >
        > >> > > >
        > >> > > > --- evetsterueb <synth@> wrote:
        > >> > > >
        > >> > > > > The comments above are a good guide. Watch the
        > >> > > > > newsgroups and ebay for
        > >> > > > > a while. As far as the difference of opinion about
        > >> > > > > prices for old
        > >> > > > > panels, I've seen old panels fetch high prices. The
        > >> > > > > main determinant
        > >> > > > > seems to be how well the module selection matches
        > >> > > > > the desires of the
        > >> > > > > buyer, not age. This is a somewhat unique factor in
        > >> > > > > the used Serge
        > >> > > > > market since you're always dealing in groups of
        > >> > > > > modules.
        > >> > > > >
        > >> > > > > I'm famiiar with STS panels from the Oakland era, as
        > >> > > > > well as pre-STS
        > >> > > > > panels from 1980/1981 (They were on Haight Street in
        > >> > > > > San Francisco
        > >> > > > > then), and 1980/1981 panels later rebuilt by STS and
        > >> > > > > combined with
        > >> > > > > newer circuits. All of it has held up very very well
        > >> > > > > and is more alike
        > >> > > > > than different. I also have a used panel from about
        > >> > > > > 1977 or 1978 which
        > >> > > > > has different banana jacks (not the Johnson jacks).
        > >> > > > > These old jacks
        > >> > > > > are secured by a barbed clip rather than a nut, and
        > >> > > > > many of those
        > >> > > > > needed to be replaced. The Johnson jacks are
        > >> > > > > incredibly durable. If
        > >> > > > > you find anything much older than that (panel
        > >> > > > > graphics with lots of
        > >> > > > > boxes and triangles) I suspect there is more
        > >> > > > > variation.
        > >> > > > >
        > >> > > > > Rex has gradually incorporated some improvements
        > >> > > > > into the electronics
        > >> > > > > of some modules (AFIK mostly subtle changes and
        > >> > > > > cleanups), turned some
        > >> > > > > common modifications into standard features,
        > >> > > > > transitioned to panel
        > >> > > > > graphics on metal and introduced the deeper chassis
        > >> > > > > boxes,
        > >> > > > > discontinued some modules and created some new ones
        > >> > > > > but overall the
        > >> > > > > product line has been pretty consistent over time.
        > >> > > > > If you are looking
        > >> > > > > for certain modules (you mentioned a WAD) that will
        > >> > > > > limit the date
        > >> > > > > range. I wonder if anybody has a timeline of these
        > >> > > > > things?
        > >> > > > >
        > >> > > > >
        > >> > > > > --- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, "buchla300"
        > >> > > > > <david.morley@> wrote:
        > >> > > > > >
        > >> > > > > > I stand by my valuations of $800 to $1800 in
        > >> > > > > general
        > >> > > > > > If we are talking Pre STS then I think over $2000
        > >> > > > > would need it to be
        > >> > > > > > full of exceptional modules and this is unlikely
        > >> > > > > although totally
        > >> > > > > > possible that one panel has JUST rare and
        > >> > > > > expensive modules...
        > >> > > > >
        > >> > >
        > >> >
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >

        Re: used serge panel price?

        2007-12-28 by legion01x

        Well if that were true then I'm the first to say all panels *really*
        cost $500 new. Now, does that help any? :)

        I'm sure people inflate their opinions for all sorts of reasons but
        it's an oversimplification to say that's why some folks are saying
        $800 while others are saying $2500.

        To put things in perspective I am sure folks have bought panels for
        $2000 or less the past year. That just didn't happen from anyone who
        knew or cared about their worth in the "market". Prices seemed to
        have grown exponetially the past year and a half. My guess is the
        euro Vs the dollar.

        The past year I saw over ten panels posted on the internet and here
        on this group. none were for $800. Some were $3000+. all different
        configs and years. For kicks I went to Eb*y and today a used Soup
        Kitchen went for $3950. That's US $$ for a used panel.

        I think you get the best "deal" if you buy a complete system but not
        everyone wants 3-4 panels at once, especially since the configuration
        is set which is an issue somewhat unique to Serge. I'd like a triple
        waveshaper but I'm not going to buy a panel with four modules I
        already have or don't want to get it.

        Bottom line these are all LUXURY items. Always have been, always will
        be. IMO no one *needs* this stuff to make music, you just get in a
        position where you can afford something you've wanted and hopefully
        go to town with it once it's in the studio.

        We've strayed a bit form the original question by now but hopefully
        made some progress as well. Personally I don't regret any of my Serge
        purchases. If I were to sell them I'd certainly do so at legitimate
        market prices but for now they make beautiful (well sometimes horrid
        but I like it) music. That's a win/WIN at any price
        Show quoted textHide quoted text
        --- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, Steve Ridley <spr@...> wrote:
        > Would it be right in thinking that the prices below $2000 were
        > suggested by people who want to buy Serge panels and the prices
        > above $2000 come from people who already have them?

        Re: used serge panel price?

        2007-12-28 by buchla300

        --- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, Steve Ridley <spr@...> wrote:
        Show quoted textHide quoted text
        >
        >
        > Would it be right in thinking that the prices below $2000 were
        > suggested by people who want to buy Serge panels and the prices
        > above $2000 come from people who already have them?
        >
        >
        > Steve
        >

        Well not here! I am the one who said $800-$1800 (mean maybe) and I
        have 6 panels.
        Look here
        http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=150196738778&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=005

        $2k per panel and NICE panels. No bids.

        Re: used serge panel price?

        2007-12-28 by buchla300

        All in all I am very happy that most people think $2k is a minimum per
        panel! I am not looking to sell or buy, but I am very happy with my
        investment (I paid $1800 for 6 panels maybe 15 years ago ;-) )
        But the price is what they sell for and a very nice 4 panel system got
        no bids for $8000 on ebay. That is 4 NICE panels in great condition in
        a nice cabinet with power supply and in full working condition.
        It looked like a very good deal to me and fair, but no one bought it.
        That is the market.
        Show quoted textHide quoted text
        --- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, "Y.:P" <yulian.p@...> wrote:
        >
        > I would tend to agree with the $2k+/panel evaluation;
        >
        > Firstly, as was pointed out, new panels DID(!!) sell for $4k+ and are
        > no longer available hence, in my book, they're already worth more.
        >
        > Secondly, imho, there should be little difference made between pre-STS
        > and STS panels (although I do realize that some design improvements
        > were introduced with very little change in the featureset).. and even
        > less difference between Oakland and Hartland.
        >
        > The only time I would expect to pay less for a panel is if it requires
        > repair/overhaul, has a drastically different design (like the really
        > old TKB that uses lead in the touch-plates) or is in poor shape
        > esthetically.
        >
        > We're talking about a hand-crafted and well-designed precision
        > instrument (which is why it stands the test of time quite well) and
        > not some mass produced, inexpensive, generic wannabe.. Again I feel
        > the need to draw the Stradivarius analogy.. would you expect to pay
        > less for one because it's older? probably not
        >
        > my 2 cents
        > yulian
        >
        > On 27-Dec-07, at 3:33 PM, legion01x wrote:
        >
        > -
        > I dont' disagree that $2k is a lot believe me but a new STS panel is
        > around $4k+ which is more :)
        >
        > One correction, Analog Haven has never sold a panel for $2k. They
        > currently have some pre STS pannels in for a minimum of $2500 each
        > plus shipping no PS. I spoke to Chuck last week and he told me that
        > is the cheapest they have ever had panels in for and he had a waiting
        > list of people ready to buy them all. Mostly from Europe and one
        > moron from phila pa. That would be me but lawd knows I've looked and
        > looked and there is nothing out there with the modules I was looking
        > for for under $3 grand
        >
        > -- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, "buchla300" <david.morley@>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > > Well, I'm in Europe and still find $2k per panel used a fairly
        > hefty
        > > price for a "normal" panel pre STS. They have less features per
        > panel
        > > due to the 6 vs 8 pots which means a 6 panel system like mine in
        > > practice has less per panel.
        > >
        > > Recently a half filled panel went for $550 or so. Analog Haven had
        > > nice panels for about $2k. Maybe my prices are too low, and prices
        > do
        > > move quickly, but $2k for ANY old panel is a lot.
        > > I love my system, but if it was to bring me $15k, I'd find it hard
        > to
        > > keep.
        > > $8k, I'll keep it thanks...but everything has it's price...
        > > Same reason I sold my Fenix. It became overvalued.
        > > Same reason I won't sell my Buchla 200. It would be very hard to
        > over
        > > value that one ;-)
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, "legion01x" <legionhwp@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > I have been in the Serge "game" the last few years. ANY pannel is
        > > > going to run $1500 on up up up. I'm talking broken modules at
        > that
        > > > price IF you can even see it for under $2k
        > > >
        > > > Any panel in good shape will fetch $2500 Pre STS or not. Maybe
        > some
        > > > here wouldn't pay that but there are plenty of folks who would
        > and do
        > > > especially in Europe where the US $$ is very low. $800-$1000 is a
        > > > pipe dream and has the same odds as getting a $250 TB303. Sure
        > you
        > > > *might* find someone selling that for that price, but if the
        > market
        > > > found out it would be back to $2500 in a second.
        > > >
        > > > Good shape STS panels easily fetch the old price list prices.
        > > > Especially when you consider custom panels are no longer being
        > made.
        > > > It is VERY true that the module complement and the buyer's
        > desires
        > > > influence prices a lot. Everyone seems to want an Animal panel or
        > > > processing modules. Only those familiar with the CV wackiness
        > will
        > > > see the beauty of some of the more esoteric modules. So there is
        > some
        > > > variety. But folks WILL buy something they don't want, even at
        > high
        > > > prices, to get something they do want. That's the serge
        > difference.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > The last new price list I saw had some single modules at $1250
        > each.
        > > > One module. pre sts or not a panel with those types of things in
        > it
        > > > are going to be worth $$ to someone looking for one since your
        > > > choices are buy the used high price or pay $5K+ and wait for a
        > new
        > > > one.
        > > >
        > > > Kind of makes $8000 for a Fenix or those current Buchla prices
        > seem
        > > > almost right.
        > > >
        > > > :)
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > --- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, Bakis Sirros
        > > > <synth_freak_2000@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > hello List,
        > > > >
        > > > > many thanks to all for the detailed replys!!
        > > > >
        > > > > best regards, :-)
        > > > > Bakis.
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > --- evetsterueb <synth@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > > The comments above are a good guide. Watch the
        > > > > > newsgroups and ebay for
        > > > > > a while. As far as the difference of opinion about
        > > > > > prices for old
        > > > > > panels, I've seen old panels fetch high prices. The
        > > > > > main determinant
        > > > > > seems to be how well the module selection matches
        > > > > > the desires of the
        > > > > > buyer, not age. This is a somewhat unique factor in
        > > > > > the used Serge
        > > > > > market since you're always dealing in groups of
        > > > > > modules.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > I'm famiiar with STS panels from the Oakland era, as
        > > > > > well as pre-STS
        > > > > > panels from 1980/1981 (They were on Haight Street in
        > > > > > San Francisco
        > > > > > then), and 1980/1981 panels later rebuilt by STS and
        > > > > > combined with
        > > > > > newer circuits. All of it has held up very very well
        > > > > > and is more alike
        > > > > > than different. I also have a used panel from about
        > > > > > 1977 or 1978 which
        > > > > > has different banana jacks (not the Johnson jacks).
        > > > > > These old jacks
        > > > > > are secured by a barbed clip rather than a nut, and
        > > > > > many of those
        > > > > > needed to be replaced. The Johnson jacks are
        > > > > > incredibly durable. If
        > > > > > you find anything much older than that (panel
        > > > > > graphics with lots of
        > > > > > boxes and triangles) I suspect there is more
        > > > > > variation.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Rex has gradually incorporated some improvements
        > > > > > into the electronics
        > > > > > of some modules (AFIK mostly subtle changes and
        > > > > > cleanups), turned some
        > > > > > common modifications into standard features,
        > > > > > transitioned to panel
        > > > > > graphics on metal and introduced the deeper chassis
        > > > > > boxes,
        > > > > > discontinued some modules and created some new ones
        > > > > > but overall the
        > > > > > product line has been pretty consistent over time.
        > > > > > If you are looking
        > > > > > for certain modules (you mentioned a WAD) that will
        > > > > > limit the date
        > > > > > range. I wonder if anybody has a timeline of these
        > > > > > things?
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > > --- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, "buchla300"
        > > > > > <david.morley@> wrote:
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > I stand by my valuations of $800 to $1800 in
        > > > > > general
        > > > > > > If we are talking Pre STS then I think over $2000
        > > > > > would need it to be
        > > > > > > full of exceptional modules and this is unlikely
        > > > > > although totally
        > > > > > > possible that one panel has JUST rare and
        > > > > > expensive modules...
        > > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >

        Re: used serge panel price?

        2007-12-28 by Bakis Sirros

        i rather agree with David regarding the prices...

        some weeks ago, some early pre-STS panels were on ebay
        and the most expensive of them went for a little under
        2000usd. (the other 3 had a few cosmetic issues
        though... but advertized to be working) but they were
        panels that looked even earlier than early 80's
        models.
        best regards,
        Bakis.

        Show quoted textHide quoted text

        --- buchla300 <david.morley@...> wrote:

        > --- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, Steve Ridley
        > <spr@...> wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > > Would it be right in thinking that the prices
        > below $2000 were
        > > suggested by people who want to buy Serge panels
        > and the prices
        > > above $2000 come from people who already have
        > them?
        > >
        > >
        > > Steve
        > >
        >
        > Well not here! I am the one who said $800-$1800
        > (mean maybe) and I
        > have 6 panels.
        > Look here
        >
        http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=150196738778&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=005
        >
        > $2k per panel and NICE panels. No bids.
        >
        >
        >


        Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory Geist
        [Doepfer_a100] group owner
        http://www.parallel-worlds-music.com
        http://www.myspace.com/parallelworldsmusic
        http://www.myspace.com/interconnectedmusic
        http://www.myspace.com/memorygeist
        http://www.DiN.org.uk
        http://www.musicamaximamagnetica.com
        http://www.shimarecords.co.uk
        http://www.rubber.gr
        Athens-Greece


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        Re: used serge panel price?

        2007-12-29 by S V G

        Just to add some clarification...

        The 6 vs. 8 pots mentioned below was already switched over by July of 1977 when I started
        working in the Hollywood facility, this being both both pre-Oakland and pre-STS. There was a
        major upgrade already in effect when I started. Most of the modules still in existence today date
        back to that time period. The NTO, all the filters, Wave Multiplier, TKB, Pitch Follower,
        Transient Generator, Slope Generator, etc. were all being made by that time. I think the Wilson
        Analog delay came out later that year and the Frequency Shifter a year later.

        Stephen
        Show quoted textHide quoted text
        >>>Well, I'm in Europe and still find $2k per panel used a fairly hefty
        >>>price for a "normal" panel pre STS. They have less features per panel
        >>>due to the 6 vs 8 pots which means a 6 panel system like mine in
        >>>practice has less per panel.



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        Re: used serge panel price?

        2007-12-29 by legion01x

        > All in all I am very happy that most people think $2k is a minimum
        per panel! I am not looking to sell or buy, but I am very happy with
        my investment (I paid $1800 for 6 panels maybe 15 years ago ;-) )

        heh :)

        > But the price is what they sell for and a very nice 4 panel system
        got no bids for $8000 on ebay. That is 4 NICE panels in great
        condition in a nice cabinet with power supply and in full working
        condition. It looked like a very good deal to me and fair, but no one
        bought it. That is the market.

        I think that auction bests illustrates what everyone has been saying
        about the original question. It really does depend on what's in the
        panel since you can't add or swap indivdual modules.

        Looking at that auction there are a lot of multiple modules and of
        course the TKB isn't even $2000 new now. If I were looking to buy a
        serge system I'd look HARD at buying something complete like this. Most
        folks who really think about this stuff have ideas of what they want in
        their head and getting three panels that you can never change with
        multiple of the same thing and missing the high end processors (WAD,
        FS, etc) really lowers the desirability and the price.

        I'd bet if they parted that system out they get a lot more than the
        $8K. This was the same seller who sold one panel for almost $4k the
        same day after all. So when we're talking prices "per panel" i think
        there is a very important distinction of looking at a single panel sale
        vs. a complete or multiple panel system. If the $4k soup kitchen was in
        the $8K system I am sure it would have sold and for more. Hell, I would
        have been tempted and I already have a TKB :)

        Re: used serge panel price?

        2007-12-29 by amnesia

        > TKB isn't even $2000 new now?????????????
        >


        i just got quoted $2400 for a new TKB......i hope Rex isn't playing
        favourites
        >
        >
        >

        Re: used serge panel price?

        2007-12-29 by Chris Sawyer

        Remember that for a TKB, you have to add a BOX ($400) or ROX ($450) to the "module" price of $1950, which would explain the price Rex quoted you. Rex may indeed have his favorite folks, but I don't think those people receive preferential pricing!

        amnesia <amni56@...> wrote:
        Show quoted textHide quoted text

        > TKB isn't even $2000 new now????????? ????
        >

        i just got quoted $2400 for a new TKB......i hope Rex isn't playing
        favourites
        >
        >
        >

        Re: used serge panel price?

        2007-12-29 by Chris Sawyer

        Remember that for a TKB, you have to add a BOX ($400) or ROX ($450) to the "module" price of $1950, which would explain the price Rex quoted you. Rex may indeed have his favorite folks, but I don't think those people receive preferential pricing!

        amnesia <amni56@...> wrote:
        Show quoted textHide quoted text

        > TKB isn't even $2000 new now????????? ????
        >

        i just got quoted $2400 for a new TKB......i hope Rex isn't playing
        favourites
        >
        >
        >

        Re: used serge panel price?

        2007-12-29 by John Loffink

        TKB was US$1850 + US$400 or $2250 total, per the last price list from 2004.
        I guess prices have gone up a bit since then?

        John Loffink
        The Microtonal Synthesis Web Site
        http://www.microtonal-synthesis.com
        The Wavemakers Synthesizer Web Site
        http://www.wavemakers-synth.com
        Show quoted textHide quoted text
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SergeModular@yahoogroups.com]
        > On Behalf Of amnesia
        >
        > > TKB isn't even $2000 new now?????????????
        > >
        >
        >
        > i just got quoted $2400 for a new TKB......i hope Rex isn't playing
        > favourites
        > >
        > >

        Re: used serge panel price?

        2007-12-29 by matthew carpenter

        Prices have indeed gone up since then.

        On 12/29/07, John Loffink <jloffink@...> wrote:

        TKB was US$1850 + US$400 or $2250 total, per the last price list from 2004.
        I guess prices have gone up a bit since then?

        John Loffink
        The Microtonal Synthesis Web Site
        http://www.microtonal-synthesis.com
        The Wavemakers Synthesizer Web Site
        http://www.wavemakers-synth.com

        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com [mailto: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com]
        > On Behalf Of amnesia
        >
        > > TKB isn't even $2000 new now?????????????
        > >
        >
        >
        > i just got quoted $2400 for a new TKB......i hope Rex isn't playing
        > favourites
        > >
        > >


        Re: used serge panel price?

        2007-12-30 by John Loffink

        Is an Egres Price List update in order?

        John Loffink

        The Microtonal Synthesis Web Site

        http://www.microtonal-synthesis.com

        The Wavemakers Synthesizer Web Site

        http://www.wavemakers-synth.com

        -----Original Message-----
        From: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SergeModular@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of matthew carpenter

        Prices have indeed gone up since then.

        On 12/29/07, John Loffink <jloffink@...> wrote:

        TKB was US$1850 + US$400 or $2250 total, per the last price list from 2004.
        I guess prices have gone up a bit since then?

        Re: used serge panel price?

        2007-12-30 by Les Mizzell

        > Is an Egres Price List update in order?

        It's the most current one I've been given, but it's a year or three old.
        If somebody (Rex?) will send me a new list - plus a list of now
        available panels, I'll happily update the site.

        Les

        Re: used serge panel price?

        2008-01-12 by Steve Ridley

        I notice that three 1979 (ish) panels just finished
        on Ebay. Two sold at $1500 and $1600, and one didn't
        sell at $1400. Nos. 150201783398/4291/4382.


        Steve

        Re: used serge panel price?

        2008-01-14 by S V G

        Just as a follow up to an earlier conversation, two of these panels are mostly populated by
        the graphics that I mocked up in mid 1977. Search for Nos, 150201783398 and 150201784291. These
        graphics post-date the "rooftop" symbols that the original Serge's had, and pre-date the modern
        sexier graphics with the rounded outlines around each module, the "serge" logo at the bottom, and
        the "-5, 0, +5 CV in" graphics

        Stephen



        I notice that three 1979 (ish) panels just finished
        on Ebay. Two sold at $1500 and $1600, and one didn't
        sell at $1400. Nos. 150201783398/ 4291/4382.


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