SergeModular

Thank you Bill.

I appreciate that clarification and I do agree on the differences from the mechanical standpoint. I was aware of the design cleanup/improvement s.

Did you have problems with your '80s kit?

kindly

Y

On 27-Dec-07, at 4:07 PM, Bill Sequeira wrote:

Hmm - there is a difference in quality between the pre-STS '70s/early '80s vintage and the Oakland/Hartland production - I would not pay the same price for a pre-STS panel, period.

There are mechanical differences (chassis fit and mechanical rigidity), cosmetic (plastic wrap vs. chemical etching), washers/connectors/ jack quality, and circuit cleanup/design improvement.

After I bought my 4 '80s panels I swore I would never buy anything that was not Oakland or Hartland.

That said, I do agree with Yulian - it is a fine instrument and cherished as such.

But all is moot as the price is set by the market's offer and demand - the price is what the price is.

Cheers -- Bill

____________ _________ _________ _________ ___

Bill Sequeira, PHD

On Dec 27, 2007, at 12:54 PM, Y.:P wrote:

I would tend to agree with the $2k+/panel evaluation;

Firstly, as was pointed out, new panels DID(!!) sell for $4k+ and are no longer available hence, in my book, they're already worth more.

Secondly, imho, there should be little difference made between pre-STS and STS panels (although I do realize that some design improvements were introduced with very little change in the featureset). . and even less difference between Oakland and Hartland.

The only time I would expect to pay less for a panel is if it requires repair/overhaul, has a drastically different design (like the really old TKB that uses lead in the touch-plates) or is in poor shape esthetically.

We're talking about a hand-crafted and well-designed precision instrument (which is why it stands the test of time quite well) and not some mass produced, inexpensive, generic wannabe.. Again I feel the need to draw the Stradivarius analogy.. would you expect to pay less for one because it's older? probably not

my 2 cents

yulian

On 27-Dec-07, at 3:33 PM, legion01x wrote:

-
I dont' disagree that $2k is a lot believe me but a new STS panel is
around $4k+ which is more :)

One correction, Analog Haven has never sold a panel for $2k. They
currently have some pre STS pannels in for a minimum of $2500 each
plus shipping no PS. I spoke to Chuck last week and he told me that
is the cheapest they have ever had panels in for and he had a waiting
list of people ready to buy them all. Mostly from Europe and one
moron from phila pa. That would be me but lawd knows I've looked and
looked and there is nothing out there with the modules I was looking
for for under $3 grand

-- In SergeModular@ yahoogroups. com, "buchla300" <david.morley@ ...>
wrote:
>
> Well, I'm in Europe and still find $2k per panel used a fairly
hefty
> price for a "normal" panel pre STS. They have less features per
panel
> due to the 6 vs 8 pots which means a 6 panel system like mine in
> practice has less per panel.
>
> Recently a half filled panel went for $550 or so. Analog Haven had
> nice panels for about $2k. Maybe my prices are too low, and prices
do
> move quickly, but $2k for ANY old panel is a lot.
> I love my system, but if it was to bring me $15k, I'd find it hard
to
> keep.
> $8k, I'll keep it thanks...but everything has it's price...
> Same reason I sold my Fenix. It became overvalued.
> Same reason I won't sell my Buchla 200. It would be very hard to
over
> value that one ;-)
>
>
>
>
> --- In SergeModular@ yahoogroups. com, "legion01x" <legionhwp@> wrote:
> >
> > I have been in the Serge "game" the last few years. ANY pannel is
> > going to run $1500 on up up up. I'm talking broken modules at
that
> > price IF you can even see it for under $2k
> >
> > Any panel in good shape will fetch $2500 Pre STS or not. Maybe
some
> > here wouldn't pay that but there are plenty of folks who would
and do
> > especially in Europe where the US $$ is very low. $800-$1000 is a
> > pipe dream and has the same odds as getting a $250 TB303. Sure
you
> > *might* find someone selling that for that price, but if the
market
> > found out it would be back to $2500 in a second.
> >
> > Good shape STS panels easily fetch the old price list prices.
> > Especially when you consider custom panels are no longer being
made.
> > It is VERY true that the module complement and the buyer's
desires
> > influence prices a lot. Everyone seems to want an Animal panel or
> > processing modules. Only those familiar with the CV wackiness
will
> > see the beauty of some of the more esoteric modules. So there is
some
> > variety. But folks WILL buy something they don't want, even at
high
> > prices, to get something they do want. That's the serge
difference.
> >
> >
> > The last new price list I saw had some single modules at $1250
each.
> > One module. pre sts or not a panel with those types of things in
it
> > are going to be worth $$ to someone looking for one since your
> > choices are buy the used high price or pay $5K+ and wait for a
new
> > one.
> >
> > Kind of makes $8000 for a Fenix or those current Buchla prices
seem
> > almost right.
> >
> > :)
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In SergeModular@ yahoogroups. com, Bakis Sirros
> > <synth_freak_ 2000@> wrote:
> > >
> > > hello List,
> > >
> > > many thanks to all for the detailed replys!!
> > >
> > > best regards, :-)
> > > Bakis.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- evetsterueb <synth@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > The comments above are a good guide. Watch the
> > > > newsgroups and ebay for
> > > > a while. As far as the difference of opinion about
> > > > prices for old
> > > > panels, I've seen old panels fetch high prices. The
> > > > main determinant
> > > > seems to be how well the module selection matches
> > > > the desires of the
> > > > buyer, not age. This is a somewhat unique factor in
> > > > the used Serge
> > > > market since you're always dealing in groups of
> > > > modules.
> > > >
> > > > I'm famiiar with STS panels from the Oakland era, as
> > > > well as pre-STS
> > > > panels from 1980/1981 (They were on Haight Street in
> > > > San Francisco
> > > > then), and 1980/1981 panels later rebuilt by STS and
> > > > combined with
> > > > newer circuits. All of it has held up very very well
> > > > and is more alike
> > > > than different. I also have a used panel from about
> > > > 1977 or 1978 which
> > > > has different banana jacks (not the Johnson jacks).
> > > > These old jacks
> > > > are secured by a barbed clip rather than a nut, and
> > > > many of those
> > > > needed to be replaced. The Johnson jacks are
> > > > incredibly durable. If
> > > > you find anything much older than that (panel
> > > > graphics with lots of
> > > > boxes and triangles) I suspect there is more
> > > > variation.
> > > >
> > > > Rex has gradually incorporated some improvements
> > > > into the electronics
> > > > of some modules (AFIK mostly subtle changes and
> > > > cleanups), turned some
> > > > common modifications into standard features,
> > > > transitioned to panel
> > > > graphics on metal and introduced the deeper chassis
> > > > boxes,
> > > > discontinued some modules and created some new ones
> > > > but overall the
> > > > product line has been pretty consistent over time.
> > > > If you are looking
> > > > for certain modules (you mentioned a WAD) that will
> > > > limit the date
> > > > range. I wonder if anybody has a timeline of these
> > > > things?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In SergeModular@ yahoogroups. com, "buchla300"
> > > > <david.morley@ > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I stand by my valuations of $800 to $1800 in
> > > > general
> > > > > If we are talking Pre STS then I think over $2000
> > > > would need it to be
> > > > > full of exceptional modules and this is unlikely
> > > > although totally
> > > > > possible that one panel has JUST rare and
> > > > expensive modules...
> > > >
> >
>