SergeModular

--- In SergeModular@y..., Bill Sequeira <bill@a...> wrote:

> Comments below.
>
> > From: "sonicsynthi" <sonic@s...>
> > Reply-To: SergeModular@y...
> > Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 00:48:51 -0000
> > To: SergeModular@y...
> > Subject: [SergeModular] Re: DIGI-TRIX Microcontrolled patching

matrix.

> >
> > --- In SergeModular@y..., Bill Sequeira <bill@a...> wrote:
> > Dear , Dear Bill, I've been using my Serge for around a
> > decade .Might It be you who is "missing the point " (this is

common

> > amongst folk who have yet to grasp the inherent simplicity in a
> > matrix.....so I wouldnt hold it against you .). You cannot "fan"

16

> > (seperate) outputs to 1 module w/out multiples/mixers (a multiple

is

> > simply a mixer without individual attenuation (which all
> > Serge "Multiples " charmingly provide )
>
> Thanks for the unsolicited lesson but that is not necessary. I

owned

> a VCS3 for a number of years and know very well what a matrix can

do.

> The problem comes perhaps in thinking that this is the first matrix
> the world has ever seen? ;-)

Bill.........really ! How imature of you.




However I would like to balance that

> comment with the observation that maybe it is the first attempt to
> create a general purpose matrix for use with modulars, which I

rather

> find interesting regardless of what anyone's opinions may be.

this is not an EMS clone . it has extra /differant functions . no
crosstalk , etc........

>
> You are correct in terms of the total fan out count, and I apologize
> as I was trying to clarify John's response rather than trying to
> offend you. The issue was one of a lack of multiples in a Serge
> system, not the multiplier in a NxN matrix.
>
> That said, the issue still remains the same.
>
> The issue at hand is not whether your approach is valid, but rather
> how useful. As far as I am concerned all I am trying to do is

understand

> the usefulness of the device you propose without the hype.

like anything it is usefull to those who understand & value it .
right ? we all square there ? this will appeal to a select few , I
dont want to sell/give one to anyone who doesnt apreciate it .
Some of the most cutting edge & respected synth users have already
requested units.

>
> > there is no such correlation unless you require a massive matrix
> > system , which cost currently prohibits .that could only be the
> > opinion of someone who has yet to see the uses of such a system .
> > think about it - how often do you use all the patch points ? 16
> > ins /outs goes a long way with purposefull thought .
> > Of course many "PATCH-PROGRAMABLE" features are best left in that
> > domain . (and indeed would be a waste of matrix space without
> > justification within a patch.)

for sure . however it is w/out doubt the easiest to read & neatest
method of complex patching , even without massive (and rare ) fanning
out.

>
> Hmmm...ok - if I follow your line of thinking, perhaps providing an
> example of how one of your matrices can work with say, a 14 panel
> system would be helpful. I do agree that 16x16 can get some
> interesting stuff done.

in the context of 14 panels all you could do is create a matrix
from your selected components . it can be phenomenally powerfull.

>
> And again, please do not believe that because this is a Serge list
> people own only Serge equipment. I actually happen to believe in
> equal opportunity for all equipment. :-)

exactly my thoughts . I honestly understand that it wont appeal to
everyone , but I associate Serge users with some of the most
experimental around . ofcourse , there will always be the Anal
anoraks.

>
> > If you were more familiar with the power of a matrix perhaps you
> > would understand why people pay (recently) $5000+ for a simple
> > monosynth connected in this fashion (the excellent synthi a/vcs3.
>
> As I stated above, I am familiar, so enough of this assumption.

not like I'm condoning that price -but I do think $3000 is fair
moneyy.

>
> Rather than seeking to frustrate you I am seeking understanding.
> It is not obvious to me from your description how it would work
> in a large system. Maybe a bit of a better description of the
> physical characteristics of your device would serve the discussion
> better?

fire away. perhaps private might be suitable ?
my pleasure .

>
> > A challenge ? Hopefully , right ?
> > In a way youve disproved your own theory - you actually appear
> > to be getting it........ - .the Fenix is equivalent to over 2

serge

> > panels , and you are correct in your sassumption that a matrix

router

> > makes it a very formidable tool .
>
> I will oversee your condescension, as "getting it" is not a function
> of faith but rather a function of learning and inquiry.

excuse my apparent condescension sir . plain language with no ill
intent . apolagies.#

>
> I do believe your device does have application for a small system,

hence

> my post. There is no theory behind my discussion, unless you

misunderstand

> inquiry as a form of theoretical exposition. And BTW, it is not

clear to

> me that the Fenix is equivalent to two Serge modules. One panel

such as

> the Animal can generate up to six oscillating sources.

the Fenix will generate 9 without thinking too hard (3 each
lfo ,osc,filter right ?) . If you wanted all those fenix features at
1 time youd need 2 panels right ? Plus ofcourse the fenix oscillators
& filters sound in a league of their own,.

>
> Part of the battle of adopting a new device in a setup is

understanding

> its strengths and weaknesses. A matrix is clearly a strength, a

weakness

> appears to be its limited capacity, or is it?

depends on size of matrix . 128 x 128 's are on our cards , plus we
plan 32 x 32 to connect thoroughly 2 synthis .



Here is the issue that you

> could answer for your benefit and the benefit of all of us,

potential

> customers. You know more about your device than we do. It is your

burden

> to show us the goodness of it.

holy shit ? pourqoui ? I can open the gate , but I aint pushin'
no-one thru......

>
> > much of the beauty of the matrix comes from its inherent impish
> > quality of inviting you to explore the patches a regular modular

shys

> > from.
> > Perhaps mistakenly , this post was sent to the Serge group as I
> > expect it to be a forum for the intelligent & the experimenter .

I'm

> > often surprised at the lo ratio of such debate on line & thus

rarely

> > comment.
>
> Experimenting means questioning, inquiring, testing and trying. If

you

> feel offended by the discussion your post generated, and by people

wanting

> to understand what you are offering, then perhaps the post was

indeed a

> mistake.

that comment was made in response to a specific point , which was
ill thought out. I really am only "offering" it to those who are
interested . IT is not for everyone . God forbid.



You asked for feedback and you got feedback, maybe not in the

> format you expected, and maybe not in the a validation format - your
> idea stands regardless of my belief or ignorance, if you prefer.

some -sent privately (actually by you) was most intelligent&
worthwhile -as is some of these online points . plus several orders ,
plus Peter Forrests wanting to include it in his soon due updated N
to Z of Analogue synthesisers
believe me -it is possible to have attenuation at every matrix
junction -yes full mixer rows - nut it will not be cheap , regardless
it is part of our research .

>
> Rather than escalating in a flame war, I would much rather have you
> provide a complete and solid description. I want to learn more

about it

> and if useful to my purpose I would want to have one. But if I

can't

> understand its pluses and minuses I will not acquire a unit.

To be fair Bill , its all about a study in ltd resources with a
16 way matrix . usage & pondering it is the best advice I can offer.
Please ask away .
yours
sonicsynthi

>
>
> Regards,
>
> Bill
>

______________________________________________________________________

> Bill Sequeira, Ph.D.
> Principal, Axon Hillock