SergeModular

Pete,

Thanks for your answers, they are helpful. Hope you won't mind a few
more to complete the picture.

1. If it is going to be rackmountable, I am assuming all connections
would be on the top of the device. Left and Top, Left and
Bottom? Worried about 32 cables coming and going (256 if you
consider a 128x128). On larger matrices I worry about how to
clearly know what cable is going where as the levels would
need to be set at the panel. Which means that it could take
some significant amount of time to just figure out what knobs
to tweak. Not worried about the 16x16, easy enough.

2. I am not sure I understood your answer to (6) below. Do you mean
that the device can't be daisy chained, and that the only way
to do such a thing is to sacrifice outputs in the first device in
the chain, or use a pre-built (by you) higher capacity matrix?
I guess I did not understand the "user connected" answer.
If you add a second set of outs that could go into the ins
of a second matrix you could concatenate them and extend the
chain.

3. Who would be using the prestopatch? Just wondering if it is a
feature that would not be in high demand.

4. How big is the LCD? Contrast? Backlighting?

5. I know that using a cursor for navigation is easy enough, but
analog patching is inherently a kinetic/right brain action.
Navigating a LCD is not. Just curious about what you think
about the changes in paradigm - a philosophical inquiry if
you may.

6. Are you anticipating some external memory to store the patches?
E.g. a CFC.

7. At the risk of getting pelted by the group - MIDI?
<Insert-sound-of-flying-debris-here>

8. Is there a pedal IN to select patches?

9. And last, what buttons/controls will the device have aside
from cursor control to navigate the matrix?

BTW, the pedal scenario is very well suited for a matrix.
Just use a pedal input for patch selection.

Regards,

Bill
______________________________________________________________________
Bill Sequeira, Ph.D.
Principal, Axon Hillock

> From: "sonicsynthi" <sonic@...>
> Reply-To: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 17:23:27 -0000
> To: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [SergeModular] Re: DIGI-TRIX Microcontrolled patching matrix.
>
> --- In SergeModular@y..., Bill Sequeira <bill@a...> wrote:
>> Excellent! Now we can stir the conversation into a more fruitful
> thread,
>> so if you do not mind, here are a few constructive questions:
>>
>> 1. What is the I/O format? I am assuming bananas from your
> description.
>
>
> prestopatch (synthi or any edge connector connected synth) ,
> Banana jacks and 1/4" jacks.
>
>>
>> 2. Will the device support interconnection between systems?
> I.e.,
>> can I hook up a Serge panel say with a Doepfer or MOTM?
>
>
> yes sirreee..........you'd need 1/4" to 1/8" adaption for the
> doepfer -easily sorted of course.
>
>>
>> 3. If I can connect two separate systems, how do you handle the
>> grounding problem? Say, I want to connect a Fenix and a
>> Serge, or two Fenixes, or Serge and Modcan. Is the
> assumption
>> that grounding is taken a priori?
>
> there is ground/earth connection for banana systems ,.
>
>
>
>>
>> 4. What is the physical form factor? Desktop, rackmount? If
> the
>> latter, what is the size? Power?
>
>
>
> 110 or 220 .
> the prototype is desk top approx 17" x 4" x 5" .the final
> version will be available as rackmount too.
>
>
>>
>> 5. Will there be voltage scaling or trimpots if converting
> between
>> systems? Is this supported at all, or is the view that the
>> matrix will have to work within a single system?
>
> yes , you have to stick to one system (i.e 1 volt per oct , or
> Synthi "Standard" (?) v per O
>
>
>>
>> 6. Can I concatenate several of these units in a daisy chain to
>> form, say, a 16x32/48/64, or any other multiples of 4? Note,
>> this is different from having separate units working
> together,
>> I am talking about integration.
>
>
> yup , they can be built to these specs , but not user connected .
> we plan a 32 x 32 too.Plus possibly others as custom orders
>
>
>
>>
>> 7. Will I be able to label the inputs/outputs within the LCD?
> If
>> not was is the approach?
>
> yes . and when you use a row /column it's text
> reverses to show rows/columns in use for even speedier patch
> checking -matrixs excel at clear patching as we all know ......
>>
>> 8. Any attenuation/summation available? Has to be done a
> priori?
>
> yes , on input or output . not within this unit at this sorta
> cost .
>>
>> 9. How do I keep track of knob status for each patch? Use
> paper?
>
> same as you would normally ? no tricks there.....
>>
>> 10. Will you offer customization of the device? I.e. can I work
>> with you in designing some derivative customized to my
> setup?
>
>
> ofcourse . within the realms of feasibility & cost.
>
>> (I am assuming as long as it works with your integrating
>> subsets of your components).
>
> yes sir.
>>
>> 11. Availability? Warranty? The usual.
>
> not till next year . warranty - fully garanteed for 12 months
> under normal use .longer warranties negotiable I'd guess.
>>
>> Agree with you that this device may not be for everyone - this q's
>> will go some way in helping folks figure out how to integrate the
>> thing into their configurations.
>
> sure . thanks Bill . Of course , irrelevant here (I'm feeling...)
> but imagine it in combo w/ most guitarists effects boards - re-
> routing/ordering effects in a flash , including removing unnecessarry
> units from the chain........
> regards
> sonicsynthi
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Bill
>>
> ______________________________________________________________________
>> Bill Sequeira, Ph.D.
>> Principal, Axon Hillock
>>
>>
>>> From: "sonicsynthi" <sonic@s...>
>>> Reply-To: SergeModular@y...
>>> Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 02:52:31 -0000
>>> To: SergeModular@y...
>>> Subject: [SergeModular] Re: DIGI-TRIX Microcontrolled patching
> matrix.
>>>
>>> --- In SergeModular@y..., Bill Sequeira <bill@a...> wrote:
>>>> Comments below.
>>>>
>>>>> From: "sonicsynthi" <sonic@s...>
>>>>> Reply-To: SergeModular@y...
>>>>> Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 00:48:51 -0000
>>>>> To: SergeModular@y...
>>>>> Subject: [SergeModular] Re: DIGI-TRIX Microcontrolled patching
>>> matrix.
>>>>>
>>>>> --- In SergeModular@y..., Bill Sequeira <bill@a...> wrote:
>>>>> Dear , Dear Bill, I've been using my Serge for around a
>>>>> decade .Might It be you who is "missing the point " (this is
>>> common
>>>>> amongst folk who have yet to grasp the inherent simplicity in a
>>>>> matrix.....so I wouldnt hold it against you .). You
> cannot "fan"
>>> 16
>>>>> (seperate) outputs to 1 module w/out multiples/mixers (a
> multiple
>>> is
>>>>> simply a mixer without individual attenuation (which all
>>>>> Serge "Multiples " charmingly provide )
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the unsolicited lesson but that is not necessary. I
>>> owned
>>>> a VCS3 for a number of years and know very well what a matrix can
>>> do.
>>>> The problem comes perhaps in thinking that this is the first
> matrix
>>>> the world has ever seen? ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>> Bill.........really ! How imature of you.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> However I would like to balance that
>>>> comment with the observation that maybe it is the first attempt
> to
>>>> create a general purpose matrix for use with modulars, which I
>>> rather
>>>> find interesting regardless of what anyone's opinions may be.
>>>
>>>
>>> this is not an EMS clone . it has extra /differant functions . no
>>> crosstalk , etc........
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> You are correct in terms of the total fan out count, and I
> apologize
>>>> as I was trying to clarify John's response rather than trying to
>>>> offend you. The issue was one of a lack of multiples in a Serge
>>>> system, not the multiplier in a NxN matrix.
>>>>
>>>> That said, the issue still remains the same.
>>>>
>>>> The issue at hand is not whether your approach is valid, but
> rather
>>>> how useful. As far as I am concerned all I am trying to do is
>>> understand
>>>> the usefulness of the device you propose without the hype.
>>>
>>>
>>> like anything it is usefull to those who understand & value it .
>>> right ? we all square there ? this will appeal to a select few , I
>>> dont want to sell/give one to anyone who doesnt apreciate it .
>>> Some of the most cutting edge & respected synth users have already
>>> requested units.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> there is no such correlation unless you require a massive matrix
>>>>> system , which cost currently prohibits .that could only be the
>>>>> opinion of someone who has yet to see the uses of such a
> system .
>>>>> think about it - how often do you use all the patch points ? 16
>>>>> ins /outs goes a long way with purposefull thought .
>>>>> Of course many "PATCH-PROGRAMABLE" features are best left in
> that
>>>>> domain . (and indeed would be a waste of matrix space without
>>>>> justification within a patch.)
>>>
>>> for sure . however it is w/out doubt the easiest to read & neatest
>>> method of complex patching , even without massive (and rare )
> fanning
>>> out.
>>>>
>>>> Hmmm...ok - if I follow your line of thinking, perhaps providing
> an
>>>> example of how one of your matrices can work with say, a 14 panel
>>>> system would be helpful. I do agree that 16x16 can get some
>>>> interesting stuff done.
>>>
>>> in the context of 14 panels all you could do is create a matrix
>>> from your selected components . it can be phenomenally powerfull.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> And again, please do not believe that because this is a Serge
> list
>>>> people own only Serge equipment. I actually happen to believe in
>>>> equal opportunity for all equipment. :-)
>>>
>>>
>>> exactly my thoughts . I honestly understand that it wont appeal to
>>> everyone , but I associate Serge users with some of the most
>>> experimental around . ofcourse , there will always be the Anal
>>> anoraks.
>>>>
>>>>> If you were more familiar with the power of a matrix perhaps you
>>>>> would understand why people pay (recently) $5000+ for a simple
>>>>> monosynth connected in this fashion (the excellent synthi
> a/vcs3.
>>>>
>>>> As I stated above, I am familiar, so enough of this assumption.
>>>
>>>
>>> not like I'm condoning that price -but I do think $3000 is fair
>>> moneyy.
>>>>
>>>> Rather than seeking to frustrate you I am seeking understanding.
>>>> It is not obvious to me from your description how it would work
>>>> in a large system. Maybe a bit of a better description of the
>>>> physical characteristics of your device would serve the
> discussion
>>>> better?
>>>
>>>
>>> fire away. perhaps private might be suitable ?
>>> my pleasure .
>>>>
>>>>> A challenge ? Hopefully , right ?
>>>>> In a way youve disproved your own theory - you actually appear
>>>>> to be getting it........ - .the Fenix is equivalent to over 2
>>> serge
>>>>> panels , and you are correct in your sassumption that a matrix
>>> router
>>>>> makes it a very formidable tool .
>>>>
>>>> I will oversee your condescension, as "getting it" is not a
> function
>>>> of faith but rather a function of learning and inquiry.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> excuse my apparent condescension sir . plain language with no ill
>>> intent . apolagies.#
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I do believe your device does have application for a small
> system,
>>> hence
>>>> my post. There is no theory behind my discussion, unless you
>>> misunderstand
>>>> inquiry as a form of theoretical exposition. And BTW, it is not
>>> clear to
>>>> me that the Fenix is equivalent to two Serge modules. One panel
>>> such as
>>>> the Animal can generate up to six oscillating sources.
>>>
>>> the Fenix will generate 9 without thinking too hard (3 each
>>> lfo ,osc,filter right ?) . If you wanted all those fenix features
> at
>>> 1 time youd need 2 panels right ? Plus ofcourse the fenix
> oscillators
>>> & filters sound in a league of their own,.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Part of the battle of adopting a new device in a setup is
>>> understanding
>>>> its strengths and weaknesses. A matrix is clearly a strength, a
>>> weakness
>>>> appears to be its limited capacity, or is it?
>>>
>>> depends on size of matrix . 128 x 128 's are on our cards , plus
> we
>>> plan 32 x 32 to connect thoroughly 2 synthis .
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Here is the issue that you
>>>> could answer for your benefit and the benefit of all of us,
>>> potential
>>>> customers. You know more about your device than we do. It is
> your
>>> burden
>>>> to show us the goodness of it.
>>>
>>>
>>> holy shit ? pourqoui ? I can open the gate , but I aint pushin'
>>> no-one thru......
>>>>
>>>>> much of the beauty of the matrix comes from its inherent impish
>>>>> quality of inviting you to explore the patches a regular modular
>>> shys
>>>>> from.
>>>>> Perhaps mistakenly , this post was sent to the Serge group as I
>>>>> expect it to be a forum for the intelligent & the experimenter .
>>> I'm
>>>>> often surprised at the lo ratio of such debate on line & thus
>>> rarely
>>>>> comment.
>>>>
>>>> Experimenting means questioning, inquiring, testing and trying.
> If
>>> you
>>>> feel offended by the discussion your post generated, and by
> people
>>> wanting
>>>> to understand what you are offering, then perhaps the post was
>>> indeed a
>>>> mistake.
>>>
>>> that comment was made in response to a specific point , which was
>>> ill thought out. I really am only "offering" it to those who are
>>> interested . IT is not for everyone . God forbid.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You asked for feedback and you got feedback, maybe not in the
>>>> format you expected, and maybe not in the a validation format -
> your
>>>> idea stands regardless of my belief or ignorance, if you prefer.
>>>
>>> some -sent privately (actually by you) was most intelligent&
>>> worthwhile -as is some of these online points . plus several
> orders ,
>>> plus Peter Forrests wanting to include it in his soon due updated
> N
>>> to Z of Analogue synthesisers
>>> believe me -it is possible to have attenuation at every matrix
>>> junction -yes full mixer rows - nut it will not be cheap ,
> regardless
>>> it is part of our research .
>>>>
>>>> Rather than escalating in a flame war, I would much rather have
> you
>>>> provide a complete and solid description. I want to learn more
>>> about it
>>>> and if useful to my purpose I would want to have one. But if I
>>> can't
>>>> understand its pluses and minuses I will not acquire a unit.
>>>
>>>
>>> To be fair Bill , its all about a study in ltd resources with a
>>> 16 way matrix . usage & pondering it is the best advice I can
> offer.
>>> Please ask away .
>>> yours
>>> sonicsynthi
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Bill
>>>>
>>>
> ______________________________________________________________________
>>>> Bill Sequeira, Ph.D.
>>>> Principal, Axon Hillock
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>>> SergeModular-unsubscribe@y...
>>>
>>> Keep on Patchin'!
>>>
>>>
>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> SergeModular-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Keep on Patchin'!
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>