Modular Synth Panels

It's been kind of quiet lately on this list.  I've been thinking of 
building a Magic Smoke Mankato VCF.  I really like the idea of 8 
filter outputs although it takes a lot of panel space.  I've tried to 
keep my panel design to a 2U size and have two basic designs - one 
using smaller UEG-sized knobs and the other with compressed jack 
spacing.  I'm leaning towards the compressed jack spacing as the 
larger knobs will make it more usable.

I've put a photo of alternatives for the compressed jack spacing in 
the "DJB Panels" photo album.  The small image is hard to read so you 
can see better images at:
http://modularsynthesis.com/magicsmoke/mse.htm

Anyone have better thoughts or ideas?  Anyone else contemplating 
building this filter in a MOTM-format panel?

Dave

On Jun 12, 2007, at 11:43 PM, djbrow54 wrote:
> Anyone have better thoughts or ideas?  Anyone else contemplating
> building this filter in a MOTM-format panel?

i'm half-done with a 2MU Moog-format layout which i was also going to  
translate to MOTM width.

my approach is actually a bit more literal, and an MOTM-compliant  
panel would violate the "MOTM grid" as my gate delay does as well.

let me work on it some more and show it to the MSE Team and if  
they're okay with it i'll post it to see if anyone likes it.
---
Suit & Tie Guy
suitandtieguy.com
stgsoundlabs.com

While I have no plans to build one of these myself, I am curious how 
this filter works.   Is there a schematic online??  I looked but 
couldn't find one.

On 6/13/07, djbrow54 put forth:

>It's been kind of quiet lately on this list.  I've been thinking of
>building a Magic Smoke Mankato VCF.  I really like the idea of 8
>filter outputs although it takes a lot of panel space.  I've tried to
>keep my panel design to a 2U size and have two basic designs - one
>using smaller UEG-sized knobs and the other with compressed jack
>spacing.  I'm leaning towards the compressed jack spacing as the
>larger knobs will make it more usable.
>
>I've put a photo of alternatives for the compressed jack spacing in
>the "DJB Panels" photo album.  The small image is hard to read so you
>can see better images at:
>http://modularsynthesis.com/magicsmoke/mse.htm
>
>Anyone have better thoughts or ideas?  Anyone else contemplating
>building this filter in a MOTM-format panel?

At 09:25 AM 6/13/2007, Mark wrote:

>While I have no plans to build one of these myself, I am curious how
>this filter works.   Is there a schematic online??  I looked but
>couldn't find one.

Mark,
Sorry, there's no schematic on-line.

The circuit is designed around the SSM-2164 quad VCA (in current 
production from Analog Devices). We will have the parts list on the 
website pretty soon; it's being revised slightly in conjunction with 
revision 2 of the PCB. You see, we had a pilot run of 10 rev 1 boards 
made, and Tim identified some minor issues (mismatched output 
levels). Tim addressed those problems and also made the layout 
cleaner. All the connection points are arranged around the edges of 
the board. No rat's nest, here!

Hope this helps a little.

John Mahoney
www.magmoke.com


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At 12:43 AM 6/13/2007, djbrow54 wrote:

>It's been kind of quiet lately on this list.  I've been thinking of
>building a Magic Smoke Mankato VCF.  I really like the idea of 8
>filter outputs although it takes a lot of panel space.  I've tried to
>keep my panel design to a 2U size and have two basic designs - one
>using smaller UEG-sized knobs and the other with compressed jack
>spacing.  I'm leaning towards the compressed jack spacing as the
>larger knobs will make it more usable.
>
>I've put a photo of alternatives for the compressed jack spacing in
>the "DJB Panels" photo album.  The small image is hard to read so you
>can see better images at:
>http://modularsynthesis.com/magicsmoke/mse.htm
>
>Anyone have better thoughts or ideas?  Anyone else contemplating
>building this filter in a MOTM-format panel?
>
>Dave

Nice layouts, Dave. Oh, to have enough space for the 3U panel...

I'd take smaller knobs over tighter jack spacing, myself, but I know 
how personal these issue are.

Have you considered sacrificing the FM2 input attenuator to make more 
room for jacks? Basically, the jack field of "Encore knob" jacks with 
6 MOTM-spec knobs.

Wait until you see STG's layout, it's a kicker! (But it is for 
Moog/dotcom -- MOTM is a tad too narrow for it.)

I have a mix of dotcom and MOTM, so I will probably opt for STG's 
dotcom panel. Nice to know that there will be an MOTM alternative, though.

John Mahoney
www.magsmoke.com


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I think it would fit handily on 2U with standard spacing and pots if you
didn't include an input mixer or the AC/DC switch. You'd only ever want DC
coupling if you're filtering slow control signals, which is unusual, though
I have once or twice wanted a CV lowpass. If you wanted to keep it you could
put it on the edge between pots and jacks the way some of the smaller MOTM
modules do. I'm not familiar with this filter but I presume having +/-
outputs for all its stages is the point of it?

Pots:

Coarse	Input
Fine		FM1
Res		FM2

Jacks:

In	1V	FM1	FM2
6+	12+	18+	24+
6-	12-	18-	24-		

				...Craig

-----Original Message-----
From: ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Mahoney
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 7:50 AM
To: ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ModularSynthPanels] Magic Smoke Mankato VCF design

At 12:43 AM 6/13/2007, djbrow54 wrote:

>It's been kind of quiet lately on this list.  I've been thinking of
>building a Magic Smoke Mankato VCF.  I really like the idea of 8
>filter outputs although it takes a lot of panel space.  I've tried to
>keep my panel design to a 2U size and have two basic designs - one
>using smaller UEG-sized knobs and the other with compressed jack
>spacing.  I'm leaning towards the compressed jack spacing as the
>larger knobs will make it more usable.
>
>I've put a photo of alternatives for the compressed jack spacing in
>the "DJB Panels" photo album.  The small image is hard to read so you
>can see better images at:
>http://modularsynthesis.com/magicsmoke/mse.htm
>
>Anyone have better thoughts or ideas?  Anyone else contemplating
>building this filter in a MOTM-format panel?
>
>Dave

Nice layouts, Dave. Oh, to have enough space for the 3U panel...

I'd take smaller knobs over tighter jack spacing, myself, but I know 
how personal these issue are.

Have you considered sacrificing the FM2 input attenuator to make more 
room for jacks? Basically, the jack field of "Encore knob" jacks with 
6 MOTM-spec knobs.

Wait until you see STG's layout, it's a kicker! (But it is for 
Moog/dotcom -- MOTM is a tad too narrow for it.)

I have a mix of dotcom and MOTM, so I will probably opt for STG's 
dotcom panel. Nice to know that there will be an MOTM alternative, though.

John Mahoney
www.magsmoke.com


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9:42 PM




 
Yahoo! Groups Links

At 01:20 PM 6/13/2007, Craig Critchley wrote:

>I think it would fit handily on 2U with standard spacing and pots if you
>didn't include an input mixer or the AC/DC switch. You'd only ever want DC
>coupling if you're filtering slow control signals, which is unusual, though
>I have once or twice wanted a CV lowpass. If you wanted to keep it you could
>put it on the edge between pots and jacks the way some of the smaller MOTM
>modules do. I'm not familiar with this filter but I presume having +/-
>outputs for all its stages is the point of it?

The point of the Mankato? There are a few!

The sound is excellent: "To hear it is to love it." :-)

In self-oscillation it provides 8 sine wave outputs at 45-degree 
offsets. Quadrature times two! It will oscillate below 0.005 Hz -- 
that is, it's a LFO, too -- so those phase-offset sines can be used 
to do crazy modulation things.

When DC-coupled, the Mankato can act as a voltage-controlled lag 
(slew limiter). This is a very useful function, in fact I bought a 
MOTM kit because it was the only VC Lag that I knew of (the Mankato 
was unknown at that time).

Again, I'm with Magic Smoke -- not trying to hide any possible bias.

John


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I love panel designing!  My thought is: If you omit the inverted 
outputs, it fits in a 2U panel with standard MOTM format.  If these are 
nothing more than inverted versions of the + outputs, I don't see a 
great utility to them, if you have plenty of outboard inverters.

-Richard Brewster
http://www.pugix.com

djbrow54 wrote:

> It's been kind of quiet lately on this list.  I've been thinking of 
> building a Magic Smoke Mankato VCF.  I really like the idea of 8 
> filter outputs although it takes a lot of panel space.  I've tried to 
> keep my panel design to a 2U size and have two basic designs - one 
> using smaller UEG-sized knobs and the other with compressed jack 
> spacing.  I'm leaning towards the compressed jack spacing as the 
> larger knobs will make it more usable.
>
> I've put a photo of alternatives for the compressed jack spacing in 
> the "DJB Panels" photo album.  The small image is hard to read so you 
> can see better images at:
> http://modularsynthesis.com/magicsmoke/mse.htm
>
> Anyone have better thoughts or ideas?  Anyone else contemplating 
> building this filter in a MOTM-format panel?
>
> Dave
>
>

At 07:09 PM 6/13/2007, Richard Brewster wrote:

>I love panel designing!  My thought is: If you omit the inverted
>outputs, it fits in a 2U panel with standard MOTM format.  If these are
>nothing more than inverted versions of the + outputs, I don't see a
>great utility to them, if you have plenty of outboard inverters.
>
>-Richard Brewster
>http://www.pugix.com

You are correct, Richard. Excellent point.

John
www.magsmoke.com


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I like the idea of having eight 90 degree increment outputs when self-
resonating.  However, as an LFO, I could easily get this functionality 
from my CVS.  Still, I'd rather squeeze the jacks a bit to get this 
functionality rather than rely upon 4 external inverters.

Just to see how the jacks look, I did a photo of one of these designs 
sandwiched between a MOTM-510 and MOTM-300.  It's at the bottom of
http://modularsynthesis.com/magicsmoke/mse.htm

Dave

--- In ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com, "Craig Critchley" <craigc@> 
> I'm not familiar with this filter but I presume having +/-
> outputs for all its stages is the point of it?

Sounds like a cool filter.

I dropped the input mixer in my layout because for whatever reason I often
find I'm filtering a single input, and can always use a mixer module. Since
basically the input mixer costs 1U of width, I can always have a 1U mixer
module next to it. ;)

Anyway it was just a suggestion for keeping the standard spacing with the
full set of outputs, if that's what one wants.

				...Craig

-----Original Message-----
From: ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of djbrow54
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 8:02 PM
To: ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ModularSynthPanels] Re: Magic Smoke Mankato VCF design

I like the idea of having eight 90 degree increment outputs when self-
resonating.  However, as an LFO, I could easily get this functionality 
from my CVS.  Still, I'd rather squeeze the jacks a bit to get this 
functionality rather than rely upon 4 external inverters.

Just to see how the jacks look, I did a photo of one of these designs 
sandwiched between a MOTM-510 and MOTM-300.  It's at the bottom of
http://modularsynthesis.com/magicsmoke/mse.htm

Dave

--- In ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com, "Craig Critchley" <craigc@> 
> I'm not familiar with this filter but I presume having +/-
> outputs for all its stages is the point of it?




 
Yahoo! Groups Links

here's the MU (Moog/Synthesizers.com, or the Moog Unit) layout i'm  
working on. it's in a width of 2MU:

http://stgsoundlabs.com/mantronik_mockup_rev_a.gif

currently i'm trying to fit an attenuator for one of the control  
inputs into the layout, and i need to have a discussion with Messrs  
Mahoney and Parkhurst to determine if "TH-201", "T. Henry", "Magic  
Smoke", or nothing should poke out of the far upper left corner.

i'll probably also try to translate this into the FU (Frac Unit)  
format over the next few days as well, probably at a width of 3FU but  
we'll see. also, these will currently be the only front panels i plan  
on offering on their own in addition to fully assembled. i don't know  
how much they'll have to be but not cheap. less than a Sheaffer panel  
for sure though.

and yes i do realise this is the non-gridified highly literal and  
possibly impractical approach, but this is really the only way i  
could assemble this thing into the Trumansburg format in an  
appealing, logical, and authentically clumsy electro-pioneer way. you  
will _never_ wonder where that Mankato filter is in your system  
though ...
---
Suit & Tie Guy
suitandtieguy.com
stgsoundlabs.com

Very nice indeed!

I just received my Rev01 Mankanto PCB today and I'm itching to get it
build, but I still need to receive the docs from Magic Smoke...

> here's the MU (Moog/Synthesizers.com, or the Moog Unit) layout i'm  
> working on. it's in a width of 2MU:
> 
> http://stgsoundlabs.com/mantronik_mockup_rev_a.gif

At 05:46 AM 6/14/2007, Suit & Tie Guy wrote:

>here's the MU (Moog/Synthesizers.com, or the Moog Unit) layout i'm
>working on. it's in a width of 2MU:
>
>http://stgsoundlabs.com/mantronik_mockup_rev_a.gif

I like it! Put in my order, STG. :-)

(I'll let Tim decide on the labeling, as he's the one who put in the 
long hours.)


>... i do realise this is the non-gridified highly literal and
>possibly impractical approach, but ... you
>will _never_ wonder where that Mankato filter is in your system
>though ...

Absolutely, it's so unique. Unless you are using a lot of the outputs 
simultaneously, getting to the Fc knob won't be a problem.

John
magsmoke.com


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On 6/14/07, djbrow54 put forth:
>I like the idea of having eight 90 degree increment outputs

I think you mean 45 degree.  Like Richard said, it's fairly easy if
you have inverters to get the additional outputs that 180 degrees
from each other, but if you didn't want to do that, just to throw
ideas out there, have you considered using TRS jacks??  That way you
could use an insert cable instead of an inverter to get the 180
degree outputs.

Yes, 90 degrees.  I think all eight outputs would be a nice 
difference from my other filters.

I do have several MOTM-890 mixers, so with the price of 
potentiometers, knobs, and jacks, I'm starting to lean towards a 2U 
standard layout module with only a single input.

I've updated my panel graphics and put the FPE design file at:
http://modularsynthesis.com/magicsmoke/mse.htm

Dave


--- In ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com, Mark <yahoogroups@...> 
wrote:

>
> On 6/14/07, djbrow54 put forth:
> >I like the idea of having eight 90 degree increment outputs
> 
> I think you mean 45 degree.  Like Richard said, it's fairly easy if
> you have inverters to get the additional outputs that 180 degrees
> from each other, but if you didn't want to do that, just to throw
> ideas out there, have you considered using TRS jacks??  That way you
> could use an insert cable instead of an inverter to get the 180
> degree outputs.
>

Crap ... yes, yes, yes, 45 degrees.  I don't know why my fingers can't 
type those numbers!

Dave

--- In ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com, "djbrow54" <davebr@...> 
wrote:
>
> Yes, 90 degrees.  I think all eight outputs would be a nice 
> difference from my other filters.
> 
> I do have several MOTM-890 mixers, so with the price of 
> potentiometers, knobs, and jacks, I'm starting to lean towards a 2U 
> standard layout module with only a single input.
> 
> I've updated my panel graphics and put the FPE design file at:
> http://modularsynthesis.com/magicsmoke/mse.htm
> 
> Dave
> 
> 
> --- In ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com, Mark <yahoogroups@> 
> wrote:
> >
> > On 6/14/07, djbrow54 put forth:
> > >I like the idea of having eight 90 degree increment outputs
> > 
> > I think you mean 45 degree.  Like Richard said, it's fairly easy 
if
> > you have inverters to get the additional outputs that 180 degrees
> > from each other, but if you didn't want to do that, just to throw
> > ideas out there, have you considered using TRS jacks??  That way 
you

> > could use an insert cable instead of an inverter to get the 180
> > degree outputs.
> >
>