Modular Synth Panels

Hello Group,

I have proposed designs in the files section, under Bridechamber Proposed Designs.

There is a 3U SN Voice and a 2U Wogglebug.
Both are standard, no-mod designs.

The only thing on the SN voice is we will use a toggle for the range. Center off will leave
one cap connected, up will connect a big cap in parallel, and down will connect a medium
cap in parallel. Much easier and less expensive than a rotary.
Also, I used a switch to choose between LFO and EG PWM and left off the fixed. Is OK or
should be try to jam a rotary in there? Or an attenuator? It will get cramped...

I haven't heard much about the 'Bug -- some want dual 'Bugs w/ Child Tone outputs, but
this would make it 4U. I can do that, but I need to know what people want.

Cheers,
Scott

----- Original Message -----

From: Scott Deyo

To: ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 3:15 PM

Subject: [ModularSynthPanels] sn voice and 'bug proposed designs

Hello Group,

I have proposed designs in the files section, under Bridechamber Proposed Designs.

There is a 3U SN Voice and a 2U Wogglebug.
Both are standard, no-mod designs.

The only thing on the SN voice is we will use a toggle for the range. Center off will leave
one cap connected, up will connect a big cap in parallel, and down will connect a medium
cap in parallel. Much easier and less expensive than a rotary.
Also, I used a switch to choose between LFO and EG PWM and left off the fixed. Is OK or
should be try to jam a rotary in there? Or an attenuator? It will get cramped...

I haven't heard much about the 'Bug -- some want dual 'Bugs w/ Child Tone outputs, but
this would make it 4U. I can do that, but I need to know what people want.

Cheers,
Scott

Thanks for that! Very good advice, Paul. I'll change that on the 'Bug.
I didn't even look at the PCB!

Scott Deyo
The Bridechamber
contact@...
www.bridechamber.com

On Mar 14, 2008, at 1:02 PM, krisp wrote:

> Hi Scott and all
> That's almost the same as the panels I had made by Schaeffer picture
> in the files somewhere  
> I used on-on-on switches to get the 50%, EG and LFO on one switch also
> used one of them on the LFO rate switch
>  
>  
> also I think the you should have the pots in this order
>  
> Rate
> Rate CV
> Cluster
>  
>  down the left hand side as they are in that order on the PCB for easy
> mounting to the panel
>  
>  
> Cheers
>  
> Paul Darlow
>  
>  
>  
>  
> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Scott Deyo
>> To: ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 3:15 PM
>> Subject: [ModularSynthPanels] sn voice and 'bug proposed designs
>>
>>
>> Hello Group,
>>
>> I have proposed designs in the files section, under Bridechamber
>> Proposed Designs.
>>
>> There is a 3U SN Voice and a 2U Wogglebug.
>> Both are standard, no-mod designs.
>>
>> The only thing on the SN voice is we will use a toggle for the range.
>> Center off will leave
>> one cap connected, up will connect a big cap in parallel, and down
>> will connect a medium
>> cap in parallel. Much easier and less expensive than a rotary.
>> Also, I used a switch to choose between LFO and EG PWM and left off
>> the fixed. Is OK or
>> should be try to jam a rotary in there? Or an attenuator? It will get
>> cramped...
>>
>> I haven't heard much about the 'Bug -- some want dual 'Bugs w/ Child
>> Tone outputs, but
>> this would make it 4U. I can do that, but I need to know what people
>> want.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Scott
>>
>
>

I would vote for a dual 'bug with a couple extra
features

including:

Child Tone outputs
Ring Modulated Output
Disturb Input.

I think this would be the about closest you could get
to the functionality of the Wiard Wogglebug.

Thanks, Julian

>> Tone outputs

--- Scott Deyo <contact@...> wrote:

> Thanks for that! Very good advice, Paul. I'll change
> that on the 'Bug.
> I didn't even look at the PCB!
>
> Scott Deyo
> The Bridechamber
> contact@...
> www.bridechamber.com
>
>
> On Mar 14, 2008, at 1:02 PM, krisp wrote:
>
> > Hi Scott and all
> > That's almost the same as the panels I had made by
> Schaeffer picture
> > in the files somewhere  
> > I used on-on-on switches to get the 50%, EG and
> LFO on one switch also
> > used one of them on the LFO rate switch
> >  
> >  
> > also I think the you should have the pots in this
> order
> >  
> > Rate
> > Rate CV
> > Cluster
> >  
> >  down the left hand side as they are in that order
> on the PCB for easy
> > mounting to the panel
> >  
> >  
> > Cheers
> >  
> > Paul Darlow
> >  
> >  
> >  
> >  
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: Scott Deyo
> >> To: ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com
> >> Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 3:15 PM
> >> Subject: [ModularSynthPanels] sn voice and 'bug
> proposed designs
> >>
> >>
> >> Hello Group,
> >>
> >> I have proposed designs in the files section,
> under Bridechamber
> >> Proposed Designs.
> >>
> >> There is a 3U SN Voice and a 2U Wogglebug.
> >> Both are standard, no-mod designs.
> >>
> >> The only thing on the SN voice is we will use a
> toggle for the range.
> >> Center off will leave
> >> one cap connected, up will connect a big cap in
> parallel, and down
> >> will connect a medium
> >> cap in parallel. Much easier and less expensive
> than a rotary.
> >> Also, I used a switch to choose between LFO and
> EG PWM and left off
> >> the fixed. Is OK or
> >> should be try to jam a rotary in there? Or an
> attenuator? It will get
> >> cramped...
> >>
> >> I haven't heard much about the 'Bug -- some want
> dual 'Bugs w/ Child
> >> Tone outputs, but
> >> this would make it 4U. I can do that, but I need
> to know what people
> >> want.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Scott
> >>
> >
> >

___________________________________________________________
Rise to the challenge for Sport Relief with Yahoo! For Good

http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/

Maybe the question should be:
Which of the following do you want? --
1) 2U panel that uses only the PCB circuit
2) 5U panel that uses 2 PCBs plus user-built circuitry -- Child Tones
(Ring mods), Disturb CVs.

I think one problem is that there is different usage of terms -- tone,
woggle, ring mod, child tones. I am confused! Even the schematics are
varied in their usage.

The PCBs from Jan have the Ring Mod Out, which is the Ring Mod from the
PLL.

The two Child Tones are the Ring Modded Woggled Tones from two 'Bugs,
and the Ring Modded Smooth Tones from two 'Bugs.
To replicate these, it looks like a single XOR would do for each
channel, or the builder could use CGS RRMs, Yusynth ring mods,
1496-based designs on protoboard, whatever.

And for the Disturb Input, we could buffer an external CV, w/ that jack
normalled to the internal stepped CV. I have a buffer PCB that would
work for this, or a Tellun MUUB-2 could be used for both channels.
Richard Brewster fades between two Disturb CVs, one of which is
normalled to the stepped CV, which would be nice. To replicate this we
would each have to do something on prototype, or make Tellun MUUB-4
PCBs work.

Richard, Grant, anyone: If we just use a buffer for a single Disturb
CV, normalled to the internal stepped CV, would negative CVs hurt the
PLL?
Richard, is that rectification for protection, or for better external
CV action?

Feel free to correct me on any of the above.

So you see why this is a big panel question: to mod or not to mod? If
to mod, in what ways?

Option 3:
2U 'Bug as per Jan's PCB.
1U 'Bug buddy expansion panel for the dual buggers -- 2 Child Tone
Outs, Disturb CVs w/ attenuators.

My head hurts.
Scott Deyo
The Bridechamber
contact@...
www.bridechamber.com

On Mar 15, 2008, at 7:03 AM, Julian Ware wrote:

> I would vote for a dual 'bug with a couple extra
> features
>
> including:
>
> Child Tone outputs
> Ring Modulated Output
> Disturb Input.
>
> I think this would be the about closest you could get
> to the functionality of the Wiard Wogglebug.
>
> Thanks, Julian
>
> >> Tone outputs
> --- Scott Deyo <contact@...> wrote:
>
> > Thanks for that! Very good advice, Paul. I'll change
> > that on the 'Bug.
> > I didn't even look at the PCB!
> >
> > Scott Deyo
> > The Bridechamber
> > contact@...
> > www.bridechamber.com
> >
> >
> > On Mar 14, 2008, at 1:02 PM, krisp wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Scott and all
> > > That's almost the same as the panels I had made by
> > Schaeffer picture
> > > in the files somewhere  
> > > I used on-on-on switches to get the 50%, EG and
> > LFO on one switch also
> > > used one of them on the LFO rate switch
> > >  
> > >  
> > > also I think the you should have the pots in this
> > order
> > >  
> > > Rate
> > > Rate CV
> > > Cluster
> > >  
> > >  down the left hand side as they are in that order
> > on the PCB for easy
> > > mounting to the panel
> > >  
> > >  
> > > Cheers
> > >  
> > > Paul Darlow
> > >  
> > >  
> > >  
> > >  
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: Scott Deyo
> > >> To: ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com
> > >> Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 3:15 PM
> > >> Subject: [ModularSynthPanels] sn voice and 'bug
> > proposed designs
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Hello Group,
> > >>
> > >> I have proposed designs in the files section,
> > under Bridechamber
> > >> Proposed Designs.
> > >>
> > >> There is a 3U SN Voice and a 2U Wogglebug.
> > >> Both are standard, no-mod designs.
> > >>
> > >> The only thing on the SN voice is we will use a
> > toggle for the range.
> > >> Center off will leave
> > >> one cap connected, up will connect a big cap in
> > parallel, and down
> > >> will connect a medium
> > >> cap in parallel. Much easier and less expensive
> > than a rotary.
> > >> Also, I used a switch to choose between LFO and
> > EG PWM and left off
> > >> the fixed. Is OK or
> > >> should be try to jam a rotary in there? Or an
> > attenuator? It will get
> > >> cramped...
> > >>
> > >> I haven't heard much about the 'Bug -- some want
> > dual 'Bugs w/ Child
> > >> Tone outputs, but
> > >> this would make it 4U. I can do that, but I need
> > to know what people
> > >> want.
> > >>
> > >> Cheers,
> > >> Scott
> > >>
> > >
> > >
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Rise to the challenge for Sport Relief with Yahoo! For Good
>
> http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/
>
>

I'll take what's behind door #2 (and two of them!)
thanks Scott!
-phil

On 3/16/08 6:54 PM, "Scott Deyo" <contact@...> wrote:

> 2) 5U panel that uses 2 PCBs plus user-built circuitry -- Child Tones (Ring

sorry i may have missed this...is this eurorack format?

I have a euro wogglebug that has the ring mod but not the child tones,
which i would be interested in :-)



p. hendricks wrote:

>
> I'll take what's behind door #2 (and two of them!)
> thanks Scott!
> -phil
>
> On 3/16/08 6:54 PM, "Scott Deyo" <contact@...
> <mailto:contact%40bridechamber.com>> wrote:
>
> > 2) 5U panel that uses 2 PCBs plus user-built circuitry -- Child
> Tones (Ring
>
>

To get the Child tones, just ring mod two Wogglebugs. The Wiard unit
RMs the Woggled Outs from two 'Bugs for one Child Tone, and the Smooth
Tones from two 'Bugs for the other Child Tone. At least, I'm pretty
sure.
: )

Scott Deyo
The Bridechamber
contact@...
www.bridechamber.com

On Mar 16, 2008, at 9:13 PM, amnesia wrote:

> sorry i may have missed this...is this eurorack format?
>
> I have a euro wogglebug that has the ring mod but not the child tones,
> which i would be interested in :-)
>
> p. hendricks wrote:
> >
> > I'll take what's behind door #2 (and two of them!)
> > thanks Scott!
> > -phil
> >
> > On 3/16/08 6:54 PM, "Scott Deyo" <contact@...
> > <mailto:contact%40bridechamber.com>> wrote:
> >
> > > 2) 5U panel that uses 2 PCBs plus user-built circuitry -- Child
> > Tones (Ring
> >
> >
>
>

On 3/16/08 7:27 PM, "Scott Deyo" <contact@...> wrote:

> To get the Child tones, just ring mod two Wogglebugs.

And the CGS real ring mod should be excellent for this! right?

>The Wiard unit RMs the
> Woggled Outs from two 'Bugs for one Child Tone, and the Smooth Tones from two
> 'Bugs for the other Child Tone. At least, I'm pretty sure.

and I think my amnesiatic friend from down under was asking about the
format. euro or MOTM... etc..
THIS is all MOTM and maybe some dot.com? on this group, correct?

Anyway, Amnesia, look at Scott's site for his brilliant work!
http://bridechamber.com/
Different formats would be great, but i prefer using MOTM but... my running
out of space situation has equal love for Euro or frac... don't care I have
all three going on.
-p

> : )
>
> Scott Deyo
> The Bridechamber
> contact@...
> www.bridechamber.com
>
>
> On Mar 16, 2008, at 9:13 PM, amnesia wrote:
>
> sorry i may have missed this...is this eurorack format?
>
> I have a euro wogglebug that has the ring mod but not the child tones,
> which i would be interested in :-)

Hi Phil

oh sorry guys here is my euro woggle
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cray5656/2239890497/

Ross



p. hendricks wrote:

>
> On 3/16/08 7:27 PM, "Scott Deyo" <contact@...
> <mailto:contact%40bridechamber.com>> wrote:
>
> > To get the Child tones, just ring mod two Wogglebugs.
> And the CGS real ring mod should be excellent for this! right?
>
> >The Wiard unit RMs the
> > Woggled Outs from two 'Bugs for one Child Tone, and the Smooth Tones
> from two
> > 'Bugs for the other Child Tone. At least, I'm pretty sure.
>
> and I think my amnesiatic friend from down under was asking about the
> format. euro or MOTM... etc..
> THIS is all MOTM and maybe some dot.com? on this group, correct?
>
> Anyway, Amnesia, look at Scott's site for his brilliant work!
> http://bridechamber.com/ <http://bridechamber.com/>
> Different formats would be great, but i prefer using MOTM but... my
> running
> out of space situation has equal love for Euro or frac... don't care I
> have
> all three going on.
> -p
> > : )
> >
> > Scott Deyo
> > The Bridechamber
> > contact@... <mailto:contact%40bridechamber.com>
> > www.bridechamber.com
> >
> >
> > On Mar 16, 2008, at 9:13 PM, amnesia wrote:
> >
> > sorry i may have missed this...is this eurorack format?
> >
> > I have a euro wogglebug that has the ring mod but not the child tones,
> > which i would be interested in :-)
>
>

As you are all mentioning Ken Stones work...he is a fantastic chap and a
person I am happy to have met

via Elby Design Super Psycho LFO, Utility LFO and Steiner, Bi N Tic and
Cynare are next :-)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cray5656/2266122863/

Ross

p. hendricks wrote:

>
> On 3/16/08 7:27 PM, "Scott Deyo" <contact@...
> <mailto:contact%40bridechamber.com>> wrote:
>
> > To get the Child tones, just ring mod two Wogglebugs.
> And the CGS real ring mod should be excellent for this! right?
>
> >The Wiard unit RMs the
> > Woggled Outs from two 'Bugs for one Child Tone, and the Smooth Tones
> from two
> > 'Bugs for the other Child Tone. At least, I'm pretty sure.
>
> and I think my amnesiatic friend from down under was asking about the
> format. euro or MOTM... etc..
> THIS is all MOTM and maybe some dot.com? on this group, correct?
>
> Anyway, Amnesia, look at Scott's site for his brilliant work!
> http://bridechamber.com/ <http://bridechamber.com/>
> Different formats would be great, but i prefer using MOTM but... my
> running
> out of space situation has equal love for Euro or frac... don't care I
> have
> all three going on.
> -p
> > : )
> >
> > Scott Deyo
> > The Bridechamber
> > contact@... <mailto:contact%40bridechamber.com>
> > www.bridechamber.com
> >
> >
> > On Mar 16, 2008, at 9:13 PM, amnesia wrote:
> >
> > sorry i may have missed this...is this eurorack format?
> >
> > I have a euro wogglebug that has the ring mod but not the child tones,
> > which i would be interested in :-)
>
>

+1 for option #2

-Jim

----- Original Message ----
From: Scott Deyo <contact@...>
To: ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 8:54:21 PM
Subject: [ModularSynthPanels] Bug panel -- decisions...

Maybe the question should be:
Which of the following do you want? --
1) 2U panel that uses only the PCB circuit
2) 5U panel that uses 2 PCBs plus user-built circuitry -- Child Tones
(Ring mods), Disturb CVs.

I think one problem is that there is different usage of terms -- tone,
woggle, ring mod, child tones. I am confused! Even the schematics are
varied in their usage.

The PCBs from Jan have the Ring Mod Out, which is the Ring Mod from the
PLL.

The two Child Tones are the Ring Modded Woggled Tones from two 'Bugs,
and the Ring Modded Smooth Tones from two 'Bugs.
To replicate these, it looks like a single XOR would do for each
channel, or the builder could use CGS RRMs, Yusynth ring mods,
1496-based designs on protoboard, whatever.

And for the Disturb Input, we could buffer an external CV, w/ that jack
normalled to the internal stepped CV. I have a buffer PCB that would
work for this, or a Tellun MUUB-2 could be used for both channels.
Richard Brewster fades between two Disturb CVs, one of which is
normalled to the stepped CV, which would be nice. To replicate this we
would each have to do something on prototype, or make Tellun MUUB-4
PCBs work.

Richard, Grant, anyone: If we just use a buffer for a single Disturb
CV, normalled to the internal stepped CV, would negative CVs hurt the
PLL?
Richard, is that rectification for protection, or for better external
CV action?

Feel free to correct me on any of the above.

So you see why this is a big panel question: to mod or not to mod? If
to mod, in what ways?

Option 3:
2U 'Bug as per Jan's PCB.
1U 'Bug buddy expansion panel for the dual buggers -- 2 Child Tone
Outs, Disturb CVs w/ attenuators.

My head hurts.
Scott Deyo
The Bridechamber
contact@...
www.bridechamber.com

On Mar 15, 2008, at 7:03 AM, Julian Ware wrote:

> I would vote for a dual 'bug with a couple extra
> features
>
> including:
>
> Child Tone outputs
> Ring Modulated Output
> Disturb Input.
>
> I think this would be the about closest you could get
> to the functionality of the Wiard Wogglebug.
>
> Thanks, Julian
>
> >> Tone outputs
> --- Scott Deyo <contact@...> wrote:
>
> > Thanks for that! Very good advice, Paul. I'll change
> > that on the 'Bug.
> > I didn't even look at the PCB!
> >
> > Scott Deyo
> > The Bridechamber
> > contact@...
> > www.bridechamber.com
> >
> >
> > On Mar 14, 2008, at 1:02 PM, krisp wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Scott and all
> > > That's almost the same as the panels I had made by
> > Schaeffer picture
> > > in the files somewhere
> > > I used on-on-on switches to get the 50%, EG and
> > LFO on one switch also
> > > used one of them on the LFO rate switch
> > >
> > >
> > > also I think the you should have the pots in this
> > order
> > >
> > > Rate
> > > Rate CV
> > > Cluster
> > >
> > > down the left hand side as they are in that order
> > on the PCB for easy
> > > mounting to the panel
> > >
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > >
> > > Paul Darlow
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: Scott Deyo
> > >> To: ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com
> > >> Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 3:15 PM
> > >> Subject: [ModularSynthPanels] sn voice and 'bug
> > proposed designs
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Hello Group,
> > >>
> > >> I have proposed designs in the files section,
> > under Bridechamber
> > >> Proposed Designs.
> > >>
> > >> There is a 3U SN Voice and a 2U Wogglebug.
> > >> Both are standard, no-mod designs.
> > >>
> > >> The only thing on the SN voice is we will use a
> > toggle for the range.
> > >> Center off will leave
> > >> one cap connected, up will connect a big cap in
> > parallel, and down
> > >> will connect a medium
> > >> cap in parallel. Much easier and less expensive
> > than a rotary.
> > >> Also, I used a switch to choose between LFO and
> > EG PWM and left off
> > >> the fixed. Is OK or
> > >> should be try to jam a rotary in there? Or an
> > attenuator? It will get
> > >> cramped...
> > >>
> > >> I haven't heard much about the 'Bug -- some want
> > dual 'Bugs w/ Child
> > >> Tone outputs, but
> > >> this would make it 4U. I can do that, but I need
> > to know what people
> > >> want.
> > >>
> > >> Cheers,
> > >> Scott
> > >>
> > >
> > >
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Rise to the challenge for Sport Relief with Yahoo! For Good
>
> http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/
>
>




____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Laurie's great. There are a million projects on his site I'd like to
get to, when I get back to building my own stuff
: )

This group was started for Schaeffer panel groupbuys in MOTM format,
and I've been using it for Bridechamber stuff alot, but all formats are
welcome to be discussed, and all panelmakers are encouraged to post
their news, whether it's commercial or DIY. I know it seems commercial
lately, but anything that helps us build better, faster or cheaper,
please post it!!!

You'll love the Bi'N'Tic. It's my favorite filter.

Cheers,
Scott Deyo
The Bridechamber
contact@...
www.bridechamber.com

On Mar 16, 2008, at 10:00 PM, amnesia wrote:

> As you are all mentioning Ken Stones work...he is a fantastic chap and
> a
> person I am happy to have met
>
> via Elby Design Super Psycho LFO, Utility LFO and Steiner, Bi N Tic
> and
> Cynare are next :-)
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cray5656/2266122863/
>
> Ross
>
> p. hendricks wrote:
> >
> > On 3/16/08 7:27 PM, "Scott Deyo" <contact@...
> > <mailto:contact%40bridechamber.com>> wrote:
> >
> > > To get the Child tones, just ring mod two Wogglebugs.
> > And the CGS real ring mod should be excellent for this! right?
> >
> > >The Wiard unit RMs the
> > > Woggled Outs from two 'Bugs for one Child Tone, and the Smooth
> Tones
> > from two
> > > 'Bugs for the other Child Tone. At least, I'm pretty sure.
> >
> > and I think my amnesiatic friend from down under was asking about
> the
> > format. euro or MOTM... etc..
> > THIS is all MOTM and maybe some dot.com? on this group, correct?
> >
> > Anyway, Amnesia, look at Scott's site for his brilliant work!
> > http://bridechamber.com/ <http://bridechamber.com/>
> > Different formats would be great, but i prefer using MOTM but... my
> > running
> > out of space situation has equal love for Euro or frac... don't
> care I
> > have
> > all three going on.
> > -p
> > > : )
> > >
> > > Scott Deyo
> > > The Bridechamber
> > > contact@... <mailto:contact%40bridechamber.com>
> > > www.bridechamber.com
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mar 16, 2008, at 9:13 PM, amnesia wrote:
> > >
> > > sorry i may have missed this...is this eurorack format?
> > >
> > > I have a euro wogglebug that has the ring mod but not the child
> tones,
> > > which i would be interested in :-)
> >
> >
>
>

I've got it. I'll do both. Otherwise either the newbies or the veterans
will be ornery : )

Scott Deyo
The Bridechamber
contact@...
www.bridechamber.com

On Mar 17, 2008, at 1:51 AM, James Elliott wrote:

> +1 for option #2
>
> -Jim
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Scott Deyo <contact@...>
> To: ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 8:54:21 PM
> Subject: [ModularSynthPanels] Bug panel -- decisions...
>
> Maybe the question should be:
> Which of the following do you want? --
> 1) 2U panel that uses only the PCB circuit
> 2) 5U panel that uses 2 PCBs plus user-built circuitry -- Child Tones
> (Ring mods), Disturb CVs.
>
> I think one problem is that there is different usage of terms -- tone,
> woggle, ring mod, child tones. I am confused! Even the schematics are
> varied in their usage.
>
> The PCBs from Jan have the Ring Mod Out, which is the Ring Mod from
> the
> PLL.
>
> The two Child Tones are the Ring Modded Woggled Tones from two 'Bugs,
> and the Ring Modded Smooth Tones from two 'Bugs.
> To replicate these, it looks like a single XOR would do for each
> channel, or the builder could use CGS RRMs, Yusynth ring mods,
> 1496-based designs on protoboard, whatever.
>
> And for the Disturb Input, we could buffer an external CV, w/ that
> jack
> normalled to the internal stepped CV. I have a buffer PCB that would
> work for this, or a Tellun MUUB-2 could be used for both channels.
> Richard Brewster fades between two Disturb CVs, one of which is
> normalled to the stepped CV, which would be nice. To replicate this we
> would each have to do something on prototype, or make Tellun MUUB-4
> PCBs work.
>
> Richard, Grant, anyone: If we just use a buffer for a single Disturb
> CV, normalled to the internal stepped CV, would negative CVs hurt the
> PLL?
> Richard, is that rectification for protection, or for better external
> CV action?
>
> Feel free to correct me on any of the above.
>
> So you see why this is a big panel question: to mod or not to mod? If
> to mod, in what ways?
>
> Option 3:
> 2U 'Bug as per Jan's PCB.
> 1U 'Bug buddy expansion panel for the dual buggers -- 2 Child Tone
> Outs, Disturb CVs w/ attenuators.
>
> My head hurts.
> Scott Deyo
> The Bridechamber
> contact@...
> www.bridechamber.com
>
> On Mar 15, 2008, at 7:03 AM, Julian Ware wrote:
>
> > I would vote for a dual 'bug with a couple extra
> > features
> >
> > including:
> >
> > Child Tone outputs
> > Ring Modulated Output
> > Disturb Input.
> >
> > I think this would be the about closest you could get
> > to the functionality of the Wiard Wogglebug.
> >
> > Thanks, Julian
> >
> > >> Tone outputs
> > --- Scott Deyo <contact@...> wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks for that! Very good advice, Paul. I'll change
> > > that on the 'Bug.
> > > I didn't even look at the PCB!
> > >
> > > Scott Deyo
> > > The Bridechamber
> > > contact@...
> > > www.bridechamber.com
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mar 14, 2008, at 1:02 PM, krisp wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Scott and all
> > > > That's almost the same as the panels I had made by
> > > Schaeffer picture
> > > > in the files somewhere
> > > > I used on-on-on switches to get the 50%, EG and
> > > LFO on one switch also
> > > > used one of them on the LFO rate switch
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > also I think the you should have the pots in this
> > > order
> > > >
> > > > Rate
> > > > Rate CV
> > > > Cluster
> > > >
> > > > down the left hand side as they are in that order
> > > on the PCB for easy
> > > > mounting to the panel
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Cheers
> > > >
> > > > Paul Darlow
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > >> From: Scott Deyo
> > > >> To: ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com
> > > >> Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 3:15 PM
> > > >> Subject: [ModularSynthPanels] sn voice and 'bug
> > > proposed designs
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Hello Group,
> > > >>
> > > >> I have proposed designs in the files section,
> > > under Bridechamber
> > > >> Proposed Designs.
> > > >>
> > > >> There is a 3U SN Voice and a 2U Wogglebug.
> > > >> Both are standard, no-mod designs.
> > > >>
> > > >> The only thing on the SN voice is we will use a
> > > toggle for the range.
> > > >> Center off will leave
> > > >> one cap connected, up will connect a big cap in
> > > parallel, and down
> > > >> will connect a medium
> > > >> cap in parallel. Much easier and less expensive
> > > than a rotary.
> > > >> Also, I used a switch to choose between LFO and
> > > EG PWM and left off
> > > >> the fixed. Is OK or
> > > >> should be try to jam a rotary in there? Or an
> > > attenuator? It will get
> > > >> cramped...
> > > >>
> > > >> I haven't heard much about the 'Bug -- some want
> > > dual 'Bugs w/ Child
> > > >> Tone outputs, but
> > > >> this would make it 4U. I can do that, but I need
> > > to know what people
> > > >> want.
> > > >>
> > > >> Cheers,
> > > >> Scott
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> > __________________________________________________________
> > Rise to the challenge for Sport Relief with Yahoo! For Good
> >
> > http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/
> >
> >
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
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>
>

While I don't think I'll be building a wogglebug myself, as I already
have PCB's for a number of unfinished projects, and a lack of panel
space, I would like to comment on this situation in general.

What people often seem to forget in these discussions, when adding
features to panel, is that a modular is modular.

Imho, bad UI decisions are when panel space is wasted (eg. no
attenuator for shape CV pn the MOTM-320 which has space for five more
knobs), or when it results in situations that cannot be overcome by
external modules (eg. missing a way to control a parameter, or access
to an input or output). This doesn't seem to be the case here.

So not knowing anything more about it, I would say that having two
single wogglebugs with separate panels is better than a double
wogglebug. If the extra outputs on the double unit are easily
obtainable by ring modulating outputs that would be already available
on single wogglebugs, then having a separate ring modulator would be
much more flexible. How often are you going to use these child
tones?? Not only could you use that ring modulator for whatever else
you wanted, but you might not even have to add one. If necessary, I can
already get two or three ring modulators out of what many people
would consider a relatively small modular.

On 3/16/08, Scott Deyo put forth:

>To get the Child tones, just ring mod two Wogglebugs. The Wiard unit
>RMs the Woggled Outs from two 'Bugs for one Child Tone, and the
>Smooth Tones from two 'Bugs for the other Child Tone. At least, I'm
>pretty sure.
>: )

Hi All

Firstly, Ross, wanted to say how cool that europanel looked. I use
the format myself and there seems to be a huge lean to the larger
motm/dotcom size, It's nice to see some 3U. Was it a homebrewed
front panel or was it bought like that? Not seen one like it before,
I'd be interested in seeing any files for it.

Secondly, does anyone here use the Eurorack format? Seems I've been
lurking here watching cool 5U designs flying past and not seeing much
I can use (probably a good thing looking at the pile of unfinished
projects). Perhaps another list? Or perhaps I put up some of my
files. Theres some cgs stuff in Schaeffer files, though I'm trying
to start cnc'ing my own. And thats a whole other mess of questions...

Cheers

Ian M (UK)

--- In ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com, amnesia <amni56@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Phil
>
> oh sorry guys here is my euro woggle
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cray5656/2239890497/
>
> Ross
>
>
>
> p. hendricks wrote:
> >
> > On 3/16/08 7:27 PM, "Scott Deyo" <contact@...
> > <mailto:contact%40bridechamber.com>> wrote:
> >
> > > To get the Child tones, just ring mod two Wogglebugs.
> > And the CGS real ring mod should be excellent for this! right?
> >
> > >The Wiard unit RMs the
> > > Woggled Outs from two 'Bugs for one Child Tone, and the Smooth
Tones
> > from two
> > > 'Bugs for the other Child Tone. At least, I'm pretty sure.
> >
> > and I think my amnesiatic friend from down under was asking about
the
> > format. euro or MOTM... etc..
> > THIS is all MOTM and maybe some dot.com? on this group, correct?
> >
> > Anyway, Amnesia, look at Scott's site for his brilliant work!
> > http://bridechamber.com/ <http://bridechamber.com/>
> > Different formats would be great, but i prefer using MOTM but...
my
> > running
> > out of space situation has equal love for Euro or frac... don't
care I
> > have
> > all three going on.
> > -p
> > > : )
> > >
> > > Scott Deyo
> > > The Bridechamber
> > > contact@... <mailto:contact%40bridechamber.com>
> > > www.bridechamber.com
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mar 16, 2008, at 9:13 PM, amnesia wrote:
> > >
> > > sorry i may have missed this...is this eurorack format?
> > >
> > > I have a euro wogglebug that has the ring mod but not the child
tones,
> > > which i would be interested in :-)
> >
> >
>

I agree. I'll just build two of the 2U, myself.

I wouldn't feel bad in leaving extra ring mods out. The external
disturb CV would be missing, however, and the majority consensus seems
to be in the "everything that the Wiard unit does" camp. There are
enough PCBs out there to warrant doing both the 2U "Wire Up the PCB"
module and the 5U "Break Out the Protoboard" module.

On the 5U, should I add a few LEDs?

Scott Deyo
The Bridechamber
contact@...
www.bridechamber.com

On Mar 17, 2008, at 9:45 AM, Mark wrote:

>
> While I don't think I'll be building a wogglebug myself, as I already
> have PCB's for a number of unfinished projects, and a lack of panel
> space, I would like to comment on this situation in general.
>
> What people often seem to forget in these discussions, when adding
> features to panel, is that a modular is modular.
>
> Imho, bad UI decisions are when panel space is wasted (eg. no
> attenuator for shape CV pn the MOTM-320 which has space for five more
> knobs), or when it results in situations that cannot be overcome by
> external modules (eg. missing a way to control a parameter, or access
> to an input or output). This doesn't seem to be the case here.
>
> So not knowing anything more about it, I would say that having two
> single wogglebugs with separate panels is better than a double
> wogglebug. If the extra outputs on the double unit are easily
> obtainable by ring modulating outputs that would be already available
> on single wogglebugs, then having a separate ring modulator would be
> much more flexible. How often are you going to use these child
> tones?? Not only could you use that ring modulator for whatever else
> you wanted, but you might not even have to add one. If necessary, I
> can
> already get two or three ring modulators out of what many people
> would consider a relatively small modular.
>
> On 3/16/08, Scott Deyo put forth:
> >To get the Child tones, just ring mod two Wogglebugs. The Wiard unit
> >RMs the Woggled Outs from two 'Bugs for one Child Tone, and the
> >Smooth Tones from two 'Bugs for the other Child Tone. At least, I'm
> >pretty sure.
> >: )
>
>

Why not build two single WoggleBugs and make child tones with an
external XOR module. The CGS Quad Logic Gate with a CD4077 XNOR makes a
great ring modulator, and also serves as a pulse inverter with one input.

http://www.pugix.com/modules/cgs-digital.htm

As for the MOTM-320 lacking attenuator for shape, check out the
MOTM-320R panel:

http://www.pugix.com/modules/motm-320.htm

Richard Brewster

Mark wrote:

> While I don't think I'll be building a wogglebug myself, as I already
> have PCB's for a number of unfinished projects, and a lack of panel
> space, I would like to comment on this situation in general.
>
> What people often seem to forget in these discussions, when adding
> features to panel, is that a modular is modular.
>
> Imho, bad UI decisions are when panel space is wasted (eg. no
> attenuator for shape CV pn the MOTM-320 which has space for five more
> knobs), or when it results in situations that cannot be overcome by
> external modules (eg. missing a way to control a parameter, or access
> to an input or output). This doesn't seem to be the case here.
>
> So not knowing anything more about it, I would say that having two
> single wogglebugs with separate panels is better than a double
> wogglebug. If the extra outputs on the double unit are easily
> obtainable by ring modulating outputs that would be already available
> on single wogglebugs, then having a separate ring modulator would be
> much more flexible. How often are you going to use these child
> tones?? Not only could you use that ring modulator for whatever else
> you wanted, but you might not even have to add one. If necessary, I can
> already get two or three ring modulators out of what many people
> would consider a relatively small modular.
>
> On 3/16/08, Scott Deyo put forth:
>
>> To get the Child tones, just ring mod two Wogglebugs. The Wiard unit
>> RMs the Woggled Outs from two 'Bugs for one Child Tone, and the
>> Smooth Tones from two 'Bugs for the other Child Tone. At least, I'm
>> pretty sure.
>> : )
>>

I put a rectifier in the Disturb input buffer to prevent any possibility
of a negative voltage into the 4046 VCO.

http://www.pugix.com/wogglebug.htm

-Richard

Scott Deyo wrote:

> Richard, is that rectification for protection, or for better external
> CV action?
>

On 3/17/08, Richard Brewster put forth:

>Why not build two single WoggleBugs and make child tones with an
>external XOR module. The CGS Quad Logic Gate with a CD4077 XNOR makes a
>great ring modulator, and also serves as a pulse inverter with one input.
>
>http://www.pugix.com/modules/cgs-digital.htm

Yes, that's true if the inputs are square.

>As for the MOTM-320 lacking attenuator for shape, check out the
>MOTM-320R panel:
>
>http://www.pugix.com/modules/motm-320.htm

I had a 320R panel and PCB, and decided to sell it. Imho, all of the
inverted outputs seemed like overkill. My point was that since the
MOTM-320 has room for four more knobs, it should have had one for
Shape CV in the first place.

Thanks Richard!

Scott Deyo
The Bridechamber
contact@...
www.bridechamber.com

On Mar 17, 2008, at 6:53 PM, Richard Brewster wrote:

> I put a rectifier in the Disturb input buffer to prevent any
> possibility
> of a negative voltage into the 4046 VCO.
>
> http://www.pugix.com/wogglebug.htm
>
> -Richard
>
> Scott Deyo wrote:
> > Richard, is that rectification for protection, or for better
> external
> > CV action?
> >
>
>
>

I think the Woggle Panel looks great!

Thomas

--- In ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Deyo" <contact@...>
wrote:

>
> Hello Group,
>
> I have proposed designs in the files section, under Bridechamber

Proposed Designs.

>
> There is a 3U SN Voice and a 2U Wogglebug.
> Both are standard, no-mod designs.
>
> The only thing on the SN voice is we will use a toggle for the

range. Center off will leave

> one cap connected, up will connect a big cap in parallel, and down

will connect a medium

> cap in parallel. Much easier and less expensive than a rotary.
> Also, I used a switch to choose between LFO and EG PWM and left off

the fixed. Is OK or

> should be try to jam a rotary in there? Or an attenuator? It will

get cramped...

>
> I haven't heard much about the 'Bug -- some want dual 'Bugs w/ Child

Tone outputs, but

> this would make it 4U. I can do that, but I need to know what people

want.

>
> Cheers,
> Scott
>