Mellotronists

An item on slashdot reports that the last manufacturer of professional 
quality reel-to-reel tape has closed their doors. The article is here:

   
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/01/06/004226&tid=141&tid=188&tid=1 
<http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/01/06/004226&tid=141&tid=188&tid=1>

Can anyone comment on the accuracy of this report (i.e. last 
manufacturer) and what the implications might be for the future of Tron 
tapes?

Bob S.

On Wed, 5 Jan 2005, Bob Snyder wrote:

> 
> An item on slashdot reports that the last manufacturer of professional 
> quality reel-to-reel tape has closed their doors. The article is here:
> 
>    
> http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/01/06/004226&tid=141&tid=188&tid=1 
> <http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/01/06/004226&tid=141&tid=188&tid=1>
> 
> Can anyone comment on the accuracy of this report (i.e. last 
> manufacturer) and what the implications might be for the future of Tron 
> tapes?


i'm not buying it.
nothing mentioned at mixonline, sound on sound, or tape op.
it seems to me this would be turning up on industry sites
that actually had SOMETHING to do with the recording industry.

so without any confirmation, speculation regarding the future
of mellotron tapes is unwarranted and premature [IMHO, that is].

/. is full of weenies.
and where is all that tape coming from that's used in DLTs?
[a DLT is used to archive all the elements used in DVD manufacturing
{in most cases it's a DLT that gets sent to the pressing plant}]
i just got BASF a couple years ago no problem. and i know they
are still using it at a couple local studios, and i see it is
still available from distributors... [BASF = now known as EMTEC]

[please also note: no mention on quantegy's website, though
they don't seem to make announcements very often...]

i'm not buying it.

> Bob S.
> 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
>

I am in the media manufacturing business; all I've heard is what you can read about here:
http://medialinenews.com/articles/publish/article_702.shtml
or here (depending on your focus of interest!!!):
http://www.prosoundnews.com/

I have to agree though with Jeff.  There are still alot of studios, recording and otherwise, that use open reel; if Quantegy AND Emtec were both to close their operations, I'd say it's a good bet that someone would buy the manufacturing equipment and continue production in one form or another.

Mark B.,
aka MSB


----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Jeff Coulter" <jeffc@...>
To: <Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 9:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Mellotronists] Last Manufacturer of Pro Analog Audio Tape Closes


> 
> On Wed, 5 Jan 2005, Bob Snyder wrote:
> 
>> 
>> An item on slashdot reports that the last manufacturer of professional 
>> quality reel-to-reel tape has closed their doors. The article is here:
>> 
>>    
>> http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/01/06/004226&tid=141&tid=188&tid=1 
>> <http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/01/06/004226&tid=141&tid=188&tid=1>
>> 
>> Can anyone comment on the accuracy of this report (i.e. last 
>> manufacturer) and what the implications might be for the future of Tron 
>> tapes?
> 
> 
> i'm not buying it.
> nothing mentioned at mixonline, sound on sound, or tape op.
> it seems to me this would be turning up on industry sites
> that actually had SOMETHING to do with the recording industry.
> 
> so without any confirmation, speculation regarding the future
> of mellotron tapes is unwarranted and premature [IMHO, that is].
> 
> /. is full of weenies.
> and where is all that tape coming from that's used in DLTs?
> [a DLT is used to archive all the elements used in DVD manufacturing
> {in most cases it's a DLT that gets sent to the pressing plant}]
> i just got BASF a couple years ago no problem. and i know they
> are still using it at a couple local studios, and i see it is
> still available from distributors... [BASF = now known as EMTEC]
> 
> [please also note: no mention on quantegy's website, though
> they don't seem to make announcements very often...]
> 
> i'm not buying it.
> 
> 
> 
>> Bob S.
>>

On Thu, Jan 06, 2005 at 12:08:55AM -0500, Jeff Coulter wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 5 Jan 2005, Bob Snyder wrote:
> 
> > 
> > An item on slashdot reports that the last manufacturer of professional 
> > quality reel-to-reel tape has closed their doors. The article is here:
> > 
> >    
> i'm not buying it.
> nothing mentioned at mixonline, sound on sound, or tape op.
> it seems to me this would be turning up on industry sites
> that actually had SOMETHING to do with the recording industry.
> 
> so without any confirmation, speculation regarding the future
> of mellotron tapes is unwarranted and premature [IMHO, that is].
> 

A couple things:

1) the Quantegy closing is real.  ProsoundWeb.com has a number of discussion
   groups talking about it, including folks that have been in contact
   with Quantegy.

2) The closing of Quantegy has the most impact on people using 2" or 1"
   tape for multitrack recorders.  There are still other companies making
   smaller format tape (1/4" and 1/2" and of course cassette).

3) There is talk of a company (or possibly more than one) producing new
   2" tape to a better quality spec than Quantegy has been doing the
   past few years.

4) It was my understanding that, at least for the Mellotron UK folks,
   they had their own source of tape that was identical/came from the
   original tape stock used in years past (EMI? - memory failing now).

If you own/operate a 2" multitrack, it may be difficult in the short term
to get ahold of new blank 2" reels.  In the long run, who knows?

Hi all!

When the Emtec company stopped making tapes I knew that tape manufacture was
a volatile business. So I have a long time ago taken measures to ensure a
continued supply of optimum quality tapes for all kinds of Mellotrons and
for the new Mellotron production models, currently the MkVI and MkVII.

Best regards

Markus

In a message dated 6/1/05 12:46:42 PM GMT Standard Time, 
tom@... writes:


> 4) It was my understanding that, at least for the Mellotron UK folks,
>    they had their own source of tape that was identical/came from the
>    original tape stock used in years past (EMI? - memory failing now).
> 
> 

We have lots and lots of EMI tape, the quick solution to major wobblies 
unless you have a knackertron.

Best,

Martin
Streetly Electronics - all things MELLOTRONIC - click this link..........

US East Coast Agent: Jimmy Moore - JMoore6397@...

West Coast Service Agent:  Paul J Cox - pjc56@...

Tom Malvern at BASF once told me that NO tape
manufacturer will warranty the binder used in
recording tape past 7 years. The two extremes of this
in my memory are that the AGFA tapes that Kean has of
old Mellotron and Chamberlin tapes is holding up
surprisingly well, the early 70's EMI, Scotch 202 and
Ampex stuff is notorius for dropping oxide. Remember
the days when everyone was running around BAKING their
precious Atlantic Classic masters?? If I were *either*
of the Mellotron suppliers, I would be buying as much
of the newer, high quality tape that I could get my
hands on and engineer the machines and repairs to just
DEAL with it. I'm not interested in buying antiquated
tapes at 250.00 a set.

Mark
--- Markus Resch <rah287w@...> wrote:

> Hi all!
> 
> When the Emtec company stopped making tapes I knew
> that tape manufacture was
> a volatile business. So I have a long time ago taken
> measures to ensure a
> continued supply of optimum quality tapes for all
> kinds of Mellotrons and
> for the new Mellotron production models, currently
> the MkVI and MkVII.
> 
> Best regards
> 
> Markus
> 
> 



		
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Do you Yahoo!? 
All your favorites on one personal page \ufffd Try My Yahoo!
http://my.yahoo.com

In a message dated 6/1/05 3:37:41 PM GMT Standard Time, easle12@... 
writes:


> If I were *either*
> of the Mellotron suppliers, I would be buying as much
> of the newer, high quality tape that I could get my
> hands on and engineer the machines and repairs to just
> DEAL with it. I'm not interested in buying antiquated
> tapes at 250.00 a set.
> 

We use EMI because it has the best drive characteristics of all tape in a 
'tron.  It is stable, sheds little oxide, has the authentic sound and folds 
superbly.  Everyone who has used it universally loves it,  Remember, there are 
hundereds of M400s we can't easily get to so it is better to supply the best 
formulation that will stabilise these machines rather go on a crusade to modify 
them for today's stock.  Modern formulations just do not drive as well in 
original build machines.

Interestingly( and with a name drop but who gives a f***), we spoke at length 
with Eddie Klein last time we were at McCartney's studio and he told us that 
he still considers EMI to be the very best tape formulation he has ever used 
and he's used plenty.  He said that when they regularly dig out the Beatles' 
masters for transfer, all they have to do is wipe the tapes to remove a little 
diust and they are always ready to roll with no dropouts or hideous shedding 
and head clogging.  He swears by the stuff and we respect that.  He my even know 
a little more than Mr Kasian does although it's hard to believe.

Best,

Martin
Streetly Electronics - all things MELLOTRONIC - click this link..........

US East Coast Agent: Jimmy Moore - JMoore6397@...

West Coast Service Agent:  Paul J Cox - pjc56@...

such a charmer. 

I DID say 70's vintage tape...and I don't remember the
Beatles doing much besides breaking up in the 70's. 

None the less....we've beat this subject to shreds on
many occasions and I STILL don't have a speck of
trouble with new formula tapes in either my MK VI or
the 400 in the studio. If you want to use the old
stuff, go right ahead. It's your customer's
money...not mine. 


> He said that when they
> regularly dig out the Beatles' 
> masters for transfer, all they have to do is wipe
> the tapes to remove a little 
> diust and they are always ready to roll with no
> dropouts or hideous shedding 
> and head clogging.  He swears by the stuff and we
> respect that.  He my even know 
> a little more than Mr Kasian does although it's hard
> to believe.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Martin
> Streetly Electronics - all things MELLOTRONIC -
> click this link..........
> 
> US East Coast Agent: Jimmy Moore -
> JMoore6397@...
> 
> West Coast Service Agent:  Paul J Cox -
> pjc56@...
> 



		
__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! 
http://my.yahoo.com

In a message dated 6/1/05 10:05:42 PM GMT Standard Time, easle12@... 
writes:

<<such a charmer

Thanks sweety
 
Streetly Electronics - all things MELLOTRONIC - click this link..........

US East Coast Agent: Jimmy Moore - JMoore6397@...

West Coast Service Agent:  Paul J Cox - pjc56@...

----- Original Message -----

From: tronbros@...

To: Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 4:38 PM

Subject: Re: [Mellotronists] Last Manufacturer of Pro Analog Audio Tape Closes

In a message dated 6/1/05 10:05:42 PM GMT Standard Time, easle12@yahoo.com writes:

<

Thanks sweety

Streetly Electronics - all things MELLOTRONIC - click this link..........

US East Coast Agent: Jimmy Moore - JMoore6397@...

West Coast Service Agent: Paul J Cox - pjc56@...

>If I were *either*
>of the Mellotron suppliers, I would be buying as much
>of the newer, high quality tape that I could get my
>hands on and engineer the machines and repairs to just
>DEAL with it.

Easier said than done.  Newer tape stock is thinner and has a different 
formulation on the drive side that doesn't drive as well as the old 
stuff.  Our tape providers have experimented with different stock, and I 
have some from a few years back that's not really playable because of the 
formulation (the stock in question is no longer used for obvious reasons).

Pierre V. did an experiment once where he put something on the capstan (or 
was it the pinch rollers?) that gave much more grip, but he snapped a few 
tapes when they got to the end.  :-)  So it's a balancing act.

For the pinch rollers I tend to take off the edges and scuff them with 
emery cloth, clean them, and apply CAIG rubber rejuvenator.  Does it 
work?  Pah!  Some stock still sucks.  That EMI stock is no problem, and 
I've even had mostly good luck with the Ampex 456 sets I have.

Martin turns his pinch rollers into tyres (tires for us American types :-) 
) by really rounding off the edges.  They look like what' you'd see on a 
motorcycle when done.

But maybe it's not the pinch rollers but some other part of the machine 
that could use adjustment in order to better drive the tapes.  Keep in mind 
that there's constant back tension on the tape due to the return 
spring---that doesn't help.

Markus/Martin:  Are you looking into the designs of your machines to drive 
the newer tape formulations?  It sounds like there is general satisfaction 
with the way available tape stock is running, so there's no real need for a 
redesign.

>I'm not interested in buying antiquated
>tapes at 250.00 a set.

The tapes from the 70s do hold up really well, strangely enough.  I've seen 
enough sets of them.  The set that I got in the Mouseotron would have been 
fine except for the mouse goo all over them (and 2 tapes being spliced with 
masking tape).  I bet I could still clean them up and get them to play OK.

I never liked "planned obsolescence", as the Quantegy people have foisted 
on their customers (reportedly) to make more money when they have to rework 
archive tapes.  But it is understandable that tape has a shelf life and 
will eventually go downhill, just like anything else.

...kl...
M400 #805 - kl is going downhill
M400 #1037 - ...and is largely obsolete

It is a fact. I got an official US gov't memo saying so,  advising us  
to buy all available in the distro network.

Although I am sure someone will buy the tooling and pick up their  
contracts, Quantegy couldn't reorganize profitably enough so they  
suddenly let 1,600 people go.

When 3M went out of the tape business, they were in profit and would  
have remained in profit indefinetly but profits were projected at 1- 2  
% growth. No greedgasm, just keeping people in work and providing a  
service.

There will be tape but we may end up buying it from the Slovacs or the  
FEBs.

gino

On 6 Jan 2005, at 00:08, Jeff Coulter wrote:

>
> On Wed, 5 Jan 2005, Bob Snyder wrote:
>
>>
>> An item on slashdot reports that the last manufacturer of professional
>> quality reel-to-reel tape has closed their doors. The article is here:
>>
>>
>> http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/01/06/ 
>> 004226&tid=141&tid=188&tid=1
>> <http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/01/06/ 
>> 004226&tid=141&tid=188&tid=1>
>>
>> Can anyone comment on the accuracy of this report (i.e. last
>> manufacturer) and what the implications might be for the future of  
>> Tron
>> tapes?
>
>
> i'm not buying it.
> nothing mentioned at mixonline, sound on sound, or tape op.
> it seems to me this would be turning up on industry sites
> that actually had SOMETHING to do with the recording industry.
>
> so without any confirmation, speculation regarding the future
> of mellotron tapes is unwarranted and premature [IMHO, that is].
>
> /. is full of weenies.
> and where is all that tape coming from that's used in DLTs?
> [a DLT is used to archive all the elements used in DVD manufacturing
> {in most cases it's a DLT that gets sent to the pressing plant}]
> i just got BASF a couple years ago no problem. and i know they
> are still using it at a couple local studios, and i see it is
> still available from distributors... [BASF = now known as EMTEC]
>
> [please also note: no mention on quantegy's website, though
> they don't seem to make announcements very often...]
>
> i'm not buying it.
>
>
>
>> Bob S.
>>
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

I love Slovacs!

Fritz!

I love this conversation (and Slovacs, Fritz)...

But...Can I get any insight for us Chamberlin folks"

My tapes are all original from circa 1980 - but what did Richard use at
that time (black now-shiny stock)? They sound pretty good at this point
other than my wobbly problems...

Speaking of wobblies -- with Chamby M-style 1/2" 8-track, does rounding
the corners on the pinchies mess up the head contact on the outer tracks
(remember how narrow the tracks are)? Is the other part of the solution
to wobblies softening the rubber and/or replacing if softening does
round them well enough? How does felt-matting factor in to good push pad
performance and adjustability?

And, BTW, is the pinch roller on the 400 the same diameter as on the
Chamberlin M's with a similar axle and connection?

Martin, anyone - come on...help us out...

Vance

-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Leonard [mailto:ken@...] 
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 9:02 AM
To: Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Mellotronists] Last Manufacturer of Pro Analog Audio Tape
Closes



>If I were *either*
>of the Mellotron suppliers, I would be buying as much
>of the newer, high quality tape that I could get my
>hands on and engineer the machines and repairs to just
>DEAL with it.

Easier said than done.  Newer tape stock is thinner and has a different 
formulation on the drive side that doesn't drive as well as the old 
stuff.  Our tape providers have experimented with different stock, and I

have some from a few years back that's not really playable because of
the 
formulation (the stock in question is no longer used for obvious
reasons).

Pierre V. did an experiment once where he put something on the capstan
(or 
was it the pinch rollers?) that gave much more grip, but he snapped a
few 
tapes when they got to the end.  :-)  So it's a balancing act.

For the pinch rollers I tend to take off the edges and scuff them with 
emery cloth, clean them, and apply CAIG rubber rejuvenator.  Does it 
work?  Pah!  Some stock still sucks.  That EMI stock is no problem, and 
I've even had mostly good luck with the Ampex 456 sets I have.

Martin turns his pinch rollers into tyres (tires for us American types
:-) 
) by really rounding off the edges.  They look like what' you'd see on a

motorcycle when done.

But maybe it's not the pinch rollers but some other part of the machine 
that could use adjustment in order to better drive the tapes.  Keep in
mind 
that there's constant back tension on the tape due to the return 
spring---that doesn't help.

Markus/Martin:  Are you looking into the designs of your machines to
drive 
the newer tape formulations?  It sounds like there is general
satisfaction 
with the way available tape stock is running, so there's no real need
for a 
redesign.

>I'm not interested in buying antiquated
>tapes at 250.00 a set.

The tapes from the 70s do hold up really well, strangely enough.  I've
seen 
enough sets of them.  The set that I got in the Mouseotron would have
been 
fine except for the mouse goo all over them (and 2 tapes being spliced
with 
masking tape).  I bet I could still clean them up and get them to play
OK.

I never liked "planned obsolescence", as the Quantegy people have
foisted 
on their customers (reportedly) to make more money when they have to
rework 
archive tapes.  But it is understandable that tape has a shelf life and 
will eventually go downhill, just like anything else.

...kl...
M400 #805 - kl is going downhill
M400 #1037 - ...and is largely obsolete 



 
Yahoo! Groups Links