Mellotronists

> Has anybody else noticed that the younger set has appropriated the term
> "progressive rock" for something that has no relation to the original
> style that went by that name, and that the new style is not in the
> slightest bit "progressive?" Is this generation so lazy that they can't
> even come up with a name of their own?

> Has anybody else noticed that the younger set has
> appropriated the term "progressive rock" for
> something that has no relation to the original style
> that went by that name, and that the new style is
> not in the slightest bit "progressive?" Is this
> generation so lazy that they can't even come up with
> a name of their own?

----- Original Message -----
From: "jonesalley" <jonesalley@...>
To: "Mellotronists" <Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 10:51 PM
Subject: [Mellotronists] question/observation


> Was the R&B misleading labeling question regarding the heavily produced,
> rap-influenced Beyonce-type radio stuff that is out now? I've never been
> an
> R&B person, but I've been wondering how the music that I hear referred to
> as
> that style currently is actually going over with fans of the traditional
> styleset, because this new stuff sure doesn't have much similarity to the
> old.
>
> Which only makes my question more relevant, are people today just too lazy
> to come up with names? Sure, language evolves and labels are elastic, but
> this practice is as misleading as calling cats dogs.


I had a couple of guys come round a few years ago to look at a Hammond I was
selling. They didn't buy, but we had a chat, and ended up cracking up as we
started talking about 'garage', 'r'n'b' etc. and realising how the
conversation would sound to someone twenty years younger. :-)

Andy T.

> Was the R&B misleading labeling question regarding
> the heavily produced,
> rap-influenced Beyonce-type radio stuff that is out
> now? I've never been an
> R&B person, but I've been wondering how the music
> that I hear referred to as
> that style currently is actually going over with
> fans of the traditional
> styleset, because this new stuff sure doesn't have
> much similarity to the
> old.
>
> Which only makes my question more relevant, are
> people today just too lazy
> to come up with names? Sure, language evolves and
> labels are elastic, but
> this practice is as misleading as calling cats dogs.
>
>

> Has anybody else noticed that the younger set has
> appropriated the term "progressive rock" for
> something that has no relation to the original style
> that went by that name, and that the new style is
> not in the slightest bit "progressive?" Is this
> generation so lazy that they can't even come up with
> a name of their own?

> I think that new interesting music is always raising
> from the musical
> scene. I tended on believing that "music died in
> 1979", but there is a
> whole world outside of prog-rock of the 70's. Prog
> rock is not bad (in
> fact is some of my fave music), but has its
> limitations, cannot express
> many things that other styles (such as minimalism,
> post rock,
> avant-garde, math-rock, slowcore, experimental
> rock...) can.
>
> I think we should have more open minds, music keeps
> on living and
> reinventing itself, and new experimental, exciting
> and very enjoyable
> music is all around, but you have to stop looking
> for prog tags, because
> you will mostly find newprog wannabies willing to
> recreate another
> "Selling England..." or "Close to the edge". "Close
> to the edge" is a
> masterpiece, but its time has passed... If you don't
> believe me take a
> look out there to groups/artists like Sigur Ròs, Max
> Ritcher, Library
> Tapes, GY!BE, Mûm, Afterklang, Dirty Tree... just to
> name a few.
>
> Best.
>
>
>

Music died approx 28-07-1750
--- Ignacio Nieto Carvajal
<ignacionietocarvajal@...> wrote:

  

I think that new interesting music is always raising
from the musical
scene. I tended on believing that "music died in
1979", but there is a
whole world outside of prog-rock of the 70's. Prog
rock is not bad (in
fact is some of my fave music), but has its
limitations, cannot express
many things that other styles (such as minimalism,
post rock,
avant-garde, math-rock, slowcore, experimental
rock...) can.  

I think we should have more open minds, music keeps
on living and
reinventing itself, and new experimental, exciting
and very enjoyable
music is all around, but you have to stop looking
for prog tags, because
you will mostly find newprog wannabies willing to
recreate another
"Selling England..." or "Close to the edge". "Close
to the edge" is a
masterpiece, but its time has passed... If you don't
believe me take a
look out there to groups/artists like Sigur Ròs, Max
Ritcher, Library
Tapes, GY!BE, Mûm, Afterklang, Dirty Tree... just to
name a few. 

Best.
        


    

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Music died approx 28-07-1750

In a message dated 11/14/2007 10:28:54 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jonesalley@cox. net writes:

But the song says that February 3rd, 1959 was the day the music died...

Sad to say, but I was there. It's not so. The music has yet to die. HOWEVER... I can think of a bunch of "Musicians" that need to die.... Or at least have their careers end.

 

Shall we make a list?

 

Who's first?

 

1. P Diddy (no talent at all)

2. B. Spears (she had her chance)

3. U2

See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.

> In a message dated 11/14/2007 10:38:06 PM Eastern
> Standard Time,
> lsf5275@... writes:
>
>
> In a message dated 11/14/2007 10:28:54 P.M. Eastern
> Standard Time,
> jonesalley@... a messag
>
> But the song says that February 3rd, 1959 was the
> day the music died...
>
>
>
> Sad to say, but I was there. It's not so. The music
> has yet to die.
> HOWEVER... I can think of a bunch of "Musicians"
> that need to die.... Or at least have
> their careers end.
>
> Shall we make a list?
>
> Who's first?
>
> 1. P Diddy (no talent at all)
> 2. B. Spears (she had her chance)
> 3. U2
>
>
>
>
>
> ************************************** See what's
> new at http://www.aol.com
>

> In a message dated 11/14/2007 10:28:54 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> jonesalley@... writes:
>
> But the song says that February 3rd, 1959 was the day the music
> died...
>
> Sad to say, but I was there. It's not so. The music has yet to die.
> HOWEVER... I can think of a bunch of "Musicians" that need to die....
> Or at least have their careers end.
>
> Shall we make a list?
>
> Who's first?
>
> 1. P Diddy (no talent at all)
> 2. B. Spears (she had her chance)
> 3.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> See what's new at AOL.com
> <http://www.aol.com?NCID=AOLCMP00300000001170> and Make AOL Your
> Homepage <http://www.aol.com/mksplash.adp?NCID=AOLCMP00300000001169>.
>

>
> In a message dated 11/14/2007 10:28:54 P.M. Eastern
> Standard Time,
> jonesalley@... writes:
>
> But the song says that February 3rd, 1959 was the
> day the music died...
>
>
>
> Sad to say, but I was there. It's not so. The music
> has yet to die.
> HOWEVER... I can think of a bunch of "Musicians"
> that need to die.... Or at least
> have their careers end.
>
> Shall we make a list?
>
> Who's first?
>
> 1. P Diddy (no talent at all)
> 2. B. Spears (she had her chance)
> 3.
>
>
>
> ************************************** See what's
> new at http://www.aol.com
>

> The Rolling Stones are a good thirty years past
> their "sell by"
> date...and someone should put the Moodies out of our
> misery too.
>
>
> lsf5275@... wrote:
> > In a message dated 11/14/2007 10:28:54 P.M.
> Eastern Standard Time,
> > jonesalley@... writes:
> >
> > But the song says that February 3rd, 1959 was
> the day the music
> > died...
> >
> > Sad to say, but I was there. It's not so. The
> music has yet to die.
> > HOWEVER... I can think of a bunch of "Musicians"
> that need to die....
> > Or at least have their careers end.
> >
> > Shall we make a list?
> >
> > Who's first?
> >
> > 1. P Diddy (no talent at all)
> > 2. B. Spears (she had her chance)
> > 3.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

> > See what's new at AOL.com
> > <http://www.aol.com?NCID=AOLCMP00300000001170> and
> Make AOL Your
> > Homepage
>

> >
>
>

> In a message dated 11/14/2007 10:38:06 PM Eastern
> Standard Time,
> lsf5275@... writes:
>
>
> In a message dated 11/14/2007 10:28:54 P.M. Eastern
> Standard Time,
> jonesalley@... a messag
>
> But the song says that February 3rd, 1959 was the
> day the music died...
>
>
>
> Sad to say, but I was there. It's not so. The music
> has yet to die.
> HOWEVER... I can think of a bunch of "Musicians"
> that need to die.... Or at least have
> their careers end.
>
> Shall we make a list?
>
> Who's first?
>
> 1. P Diddy (no talent at all)
> 2. B. Spears (she had her chance)
> 3. U2
> 4. Barry Manilow (he has the audacity to put a key

>
>
> --- MAinPsych@... wrote:
>
> > In a message dated 11/14/2007 10:38:06 PM Eastern
> > Standard Time,
> > lsf5275@... writes:
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 11/14/2007 10:28:54 P.M. Eastern
> > Standard Time,
> > jonesalley@... a messag
> >
> > But the song says that February 3rd, 1959 was the
> > day the music died...
> >
> >
> >
> > Sad to say, but I was there. It's not so. The music
> > has yet to die.
> > HOWEVER... I can think of a bunch of "Musicians"
> > that need to die.... Or at least have
> > their careers end.
> >
> > Shall we make a list?
> >
> > Who's first?
> >
> > 1. P Diddy (no talent at all)
> > 2. B. Spears (she had her chance)
> > 3. U2
> > 4. Barry Manilow (he has the audacity to put a key
> change in EACH SONG, and even call it music)
> 5. All rappers...they somehow think that since it rhymes it

>
>
>
>

> Get easy, one-click access to your favorites.
> Make Yahoo! your homepage.
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>

> --- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Daily
> <pocotron@...>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > --- MAinPsych@... wrote:
> >
> > > In a message dated 11/14/2007 10:38:06 PM
> Eastern
> > > Standard Time,
> > > lsf5275@... writes:
> > >
> > >
> > > In a message dated 11/14/2007 10:28:54 P.M.
> Eastern
> > > Standard Time,
> > > jonesalley@... a messag
> > >
> > > But the song says that February 3rd, 1959 was
> the
> > > day the music died...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Sad to say, but I was there. It's not so. The
> music
> > > has yet to die.
> > > HOWEVER... I can think of a bunch of "Musicians"
> > > that need to die.... Or at least have
> > > their careers end.
> > >
> > > Shall we make a list?
> > >
> > > Who's first?
> > >
> > > 1. P Diddy (no talent at all)
> > > 2. B. Spears (she had her chance)
> > > 3. U2
> > > 4. Barry Manilow (he has the audacity to put a
> key
> > change in EACH SONG, and even call it music)
> > 5. All rappers...they somehow think that since
> it rhymes it
> doesn't need a melody, or a change of the root note
> can stay the same
> cause it's angry and it be kool...but hey!!!...if we
> wait long
> enough, they will all shoot each other outside a
> gangstah club, and I
> can withdraw my entry to the "Musicians List"///ccuz
> they all be
> gone!!!
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

> ______________
> > Get easy, one-click access to your favorites.
> > Make Yahoo! your homepage.
> > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
> >
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----

From: lsf5275@...

To: jonesalley@... ; Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 10:50 PM

Subject: Re: [Mellotronists] Re: question/observation

In a message dated 11/14/2007 10:43:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jonesalley@cox. net writes:

I thought we were discussing music.  Sorry, I'll start paying attention...

Gosh. That will be a first.

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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.31/1130 - Release Date: 11/14/2007 9:27 AM

----- Original Message -----

From: MAinPsych@...

To: Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 2:08 PM

Subject: Re: [Mellotronists] Re: question/observation

In a message dated 11/15/2007 3:26:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, surfbeach@hawaii. rr.com writes:

> > Shall we make a list?
> >
> > Who's first?
> >
> > 1. P Diddy (no talent at all)
> > 2. B. Spears (she had her chance)
> > 3. U2
> > 4. Barry Manilow (he has the audacity to put a key
> change in EACH SONG, and even call it music)
> 5. All rappers...they somehow think that since it rhymes it
doesn't need a melody, or a change of the root note can stay the same
cause it's angry and it be kool...but hey!!!...if we wait long
enough, they will all shoot each other outside a gangstah club, and I can withdraw my entry to the "Musicians List"///ccuz they all be gone!!!

    5b. Addendum to (5): Like the Sopranos character Christopher Moltisanti said in one episode, "4th grade poetry and a drum machine and every ditsoon thinks he's Chairman Of The Board".

See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.

>
> On Nov 15, 2007, at 11:48 AM, Mattias wrote:
>
> > Mountains come out of the sky and just stand
> there.
>
> There just aren't many people who have a way with
> words like Jon
> Anderson.
>
>
> Fortunately...
>
>
>

> From: Rick Blechta <rick@...>
> Sender: Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com
>
> On Nov 15, 2007, at 11:48 AM, Mattias wrote:
>
> > Mountains come out of the sky and just stand there.
>
> There just aren't many people who have a way with words like Jon
> Anderson.
>
> Fortunately...

> Well, I greatly admire Jon Anderson's lyrics.
>
> I understand that you might not get the concept behind his lyrics, but
> belittling his work is neither helpful nor constructive. I think it's
> unfortunate that so many listeners who consider themselves musically
> sophisticated and enlightened are at the same time so closed minded
> when it comes to lyrics.
>
> Jon Anderson's lyrics are impressionistic; basicly Claude Monet
> applied to rock lyrics. The direct textual meaning is diminished and
> the poetry of the rhythms and the sounds of the words take its place
> in evoking the listener's mental imagery.
>
> Progressive rock is all about opening up the basic rock genre to
> musically sophisticated, creative and artistic ideas. And Jon
> Anderson has the balls to try something different and build on it. My
> hat's off to the guy.

Well, then based on that, I'll give it a listen.

I was a Springsteen and E Street band fan in the late 70's...saw many a show, although I burnt out on it....

-----Original Message-----
From: lsf5275@...
Sent: Nov 15, 2007 7:42 PM
To: rick@..., Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Mellotronists] Re: question/observation

In a message dated 11/15/2007 6:41:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, rick@rickblechta. com writes:

Donald, your comments are a very unfortunate example of an "I'm
right, so that makes you wrong" exchange. You should take note that I
didn't include in my initial email on the subject: "anyone who thinks
Jon Anderson's lyrics are profound or even good knows absolutely
nothing about what constitutes good poetry." That wouldn't have been
very nice, would it? And you would then have a perfect right to feel
insulted -- as I do now

 

 

So I'm going to mediate this whole thing. Rick... Jon Anderson wrote lyrics that often made no sense and were sort of, "stream of consciousness. " The words were just that... they were meant to carry the mood of the song nothing more. It's not like Jon wrote anything that expresses an opinion or educates the listener.

 

Donald, don't fuck with Rick.

 

There! It's over.

 

So, I just had a chance to listen to the new Bruce Springsteen CD. It is really, really great. I don't give a rat's ass about you naysayers. No one on this list is capable of producing anything close.  These songs ring of passion. They are Rock in it's purest form. Great music and something to say. And a ton of great Chamberlin to boot.

 

I don't care if some of you disagree. Remember, only my opinion counts.

 

Frank II

See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.

> Jon Anderson's lyrics are impressionistic; basicly Claude Monet
> applied to rock lyrics.
>

> Progressive rock is all about opening up the basic rock genre to
> musically sophisticated, creative and artistic ideas.

----- Original Message -----

From: Mike Dickson

To: Donald Tillman

Cc: Rick Blechta ; Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 4:19 AM

Subject: Re: [Mellotronists] Re: question/observation

Donald Tillman wrote:
> Jon Anderson's lyrics are impressionistic; basicly Claude Monet
> applied to rock lyrics.
>

I think I can hear the sound of M. Monet rising from his grave to come
and get you, Don.

> Progressive rock is all about opening up the basic rock genre to
> musically sophisticated, creative and artistic ideas.

You reckon? I think that, like most rock and roll, it's all about
showing off to the girl in the front row.

--
Mike Dickson, Edinburgh

> Girl in the front row ? At a prog rock show ?

> From: Rick Blechta <rick@...>
> Sender: Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com
>
> Jon did indeed have "the balls to try something different", and
> that's a good thing, but to my mind, he failed in what he set out
> to do. Why would you assume from that that I'm close-minded?
> Because I don't think much of Jon's lyrics and you do?

> Let's talk about words. Don't yours in the first paragraph make
> some sweeping assumptions, presumably about me, that you have no
> right to make without engaging in further discussion?

> Donald, your comments are a very unfortunate example of an "I'm
> right, so that makes you wrong" exchange.

----- Original Message -----

From: Donald Tillman

To: Rick Blechta

Cc: Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 8:17 AM

Subject: Re: [Mellotronists] Re: question/observation

> From: Rick Blechta <rick@rickblechta. com>
> Sender: Mellotronists@ yahoogroups. com
>
> Jon did indeed have "the balls to try something different", and
> that's a good thing, but to my mind, he failed in what he set out
> to do. Why would you assume from that that I'm close-minded?
> Because I don't think much of Jon's lyrics and you do?

Rick,

Not at all; I assume you're closed-minded because your contribution to
the topic was to toss a cheap Jon Anderson insult over the transom.

> Let's talk about words. Don't yours in the first paragraph make
> some sweeping assumptions, presumably about me, that you have no
> right to make without engaging in further discussion?

My remarks were directed toward you, for the above reason, but my
remarks were also directed toward Mattias, since he pulled a single
line thoroughly out of context and held it up for ridicule, getting
the words wrong in the process.

And my remarks were directed toward all those other folks who've said
exactly the same thing in thousands of posts to prog-based forums for
decades. Whining about Jon Anderson lyrics gets tedius, man.

> Donald, your comments are a very unfortunate example of an "I'm
> right, so that makes you wrong" exchange.

You're the only one talking about "right" or "wrong". I'm talking
about "getting JA" and "not getting JA". If you don't get JA, that's
fine; I neither mind nor care.

-- Don

--
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California
don@...
http://www.till. com

>
> Mattias wrote:
> > Girl in the front row ? At a prog rock show ?
>
> I admit that the idea of a girl at a prog rock concert does indeed

> fanciful.
>
> --
> Mike Dickson, Edinburgh
>

----- Original Message -----

From: tronbros@...

To: don@... ; rick@...

Cc: Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 8:43 AM

Subject: Re: [Mellotronists] Re: question/observation

Just to say, there is a band called Sigur Ros from Iceland who also use lyrics in a JA stylee but rather than sing recognisable words that can be interpreted as having a meaning, they sing in a made up language to achieve the atmosphere for the music they are playing.  This seems to be a purer way to go about things.  There isn't the distraction of trying to decipher the undecipherable.

 

M

Streetly Electronics - All Things Mellotronic

 

See: The Cocteau Twins for details.  :-)

 

FWIW, my two penn'orth is that JA sometimes wrote lyrics that sounded wonderful while having no real meaning (although South Side Of The Sky is apparently about the loss of a polar expedition), but more often wrote lyrics that, while also having no meaning, were thoroughly banal. He then shifted across to drippy love songs, also banal. Stick with the holy trinity of The Yes Album/Fragile/Close To The Edge.  :-)

 

Andy T.

 

 

--- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, tronbros@... wrote:
>
> Just to say, there is a band called Sigur Ros from Iceland who
also use
> lyrics in a JA stylee but rather than sing recognisable words that
can be
> interpreted as having a meaning, they sing in a made up language
to achieve the
> atmosphere for the music they are playing. This seems to be a
purer way to go
> about things. There isn't the distraction of trying to decipher
the
> undecipherable.
>
> M
> Streetly Electronics - All Things Mellotronic
>
> _www.mellotronics.com_ (http://www.mellotronics.com/)
> US Sales East: Jimmy Moore_ JMoore6397@..._
> (http://JMoore6397@.../)
> US Sales West: Paul Cox_ pjc56@..._ (http://pjc56@.../)
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Bernie

To: Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 7:59 AM

Subject: [Mellotronists] Re: question/observation

Didn't Magma also use a made-up language for their recordings? I
think they were supposed to tell a story though.

Bernie

--- In Mellotronists@ yahoogroups. com, tronbros@... wrote:
>
> Just to say, there is a band called Sigur Ros from Iceland who
also use
> lyrics in a JA stylee but rather than sing recognisable words that
can be
> interpreted as having a meaning, they sing in a made up language
to achieve the
> atmosphere for the music they are playing. This seems to be a
purer way to go
> about things. There isn't the distraction of trying to decipher
the
> undecipherable.
>
> M
> Streetly Electronics - All Things Mellotronic
>
> _www.mellotronics. com_ (http://www.mellotro nics.com/)
> US Sales East: Jimmy Moore_ JMoore6397@. .._
> (http://JMoore6397@ .../)
> US Sales West: Paul Cox_ pjc56@..._ (http://pjc56@ .../)
>

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.31/1130 - Release Date: 11/14/2007 9:27 AM

>
> You can bet they did!
> To me it's all about the "sound".
> Magma had a growling sound to it that fit the music.
> Whether you liked it or not sure doesn't matter to me!
> Tony
> #510
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bernie
> To: Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 7:59 AM
> Subject: [Mellotronists] Re: question/observation
>
>
> Didn't Magma also use a made-up language for their recordings? I
> think they were supposed to tell a story though.
>
> Bernie
>
> --- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, tronbros@ wrote:
> >
> > Just to say, there is a band called Sigur Ros from Iceland who
> also use
> > lyrics in a JA stylee but rather than sing recognisable words

> can be
> > interpreted as having a meaning, they sing in a made up

> to achieve the
> > atmosphere for the music they are playing. This seems to be a
> purer way to go
> > about things. There isn't the distraction of trying to

> the
> > undecipherable.
> >
> > M
> > Streetly Electronics - All Things Mellotronic
> >
> > _www.mellotronics.com_ (http://www.mellotronics.com/)
> > US Sales East: Jimmy Moore_ JMoore6397@_
> > (http://JMoore6397@/)
> > US Sales West: Paul Cox_ pjc56@_ (http://pjc56@/)
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------

>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.31/1130 - Release

>

On Nov 16, 2007 9:31 AM, Bernie <kornowicz@...> wrote:

Yeah, I agree about the sound. I generally only listen to the
overall sound and don't pay much attention to the lyrics. Most rock
lyrics are pretty dorky anyway. There are a few exceptions though.

Bernie

--- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, "Tony1" <ferrarimanatm1@...>

wrote:
>
> You can bet they did!
> To me it's all about the "sound".
> Magma had a growling sound to it that fit the music.
> Whether you liked it or not sure doesn't matter to me!
> Tony
> #510
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bernie
> To: Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 7:59 AM
> Subject: [Mellotronists] Re: question/observation
>
>
> Didn't Magma also use a made-up language for their recordings? I
> think they were supposed to tell a story though.
>
> Bernie
>
> --- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, tronbros@ wrote:
> >
> > Just to say, there is a band called Sigur Ros from Iceland who
> also use
> > lyrics in a JA stylee but rather than sing recognisable words
that
> can be
> > interpreted as having a meaning, they sing in a made up
language
> to achieve the
> > atmosphere for the music they are playing. This seems to be a
> purer way to go
> > about things. There isn't the distraction of trying to
decipher
> the
> > undecipherable.
> >
> > M
> > Streetly Electronics - All Things Mellotronic
> >
> > _www.mellotronics.com_ (http://www.mellotronics.com/)
> > US Sales East: Jimmy Moore_ JMoore6397@_
> > (http://JMoore6397@/)
> > US Sales West: Paul Cox_ pjc56@_ (http://pjc56@/)
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
-----------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.31/1130 - Release
Date: 11/14/2007 9:27 AM
>

> Didn't Magma also use a made-up language for their recordings? I
> think they were supposed to tell a story though.
>
> Bernie

>

--- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, jeffc@... wrote:
>
> On Fri, 16 Nov 2007, Bernie wrote:
>
> > Didn't Magma also use a made-up language for their recordings? I
> > think they were supposed to tell a story though.
> >
> > Bernie
>
>
> christian vander, the founder of magma, invented
> a language, kobaian, because he felt that existing
> languages could not be used in the manner he desired,
> which is a very operatic choral style.
>
> it can drive you up a wall REALLY fast if you are
> not in the right mood for it... and it doesn't help
> that it's often sung by klaus blasquiz, a man of
> amazing vocal range that he often uses to its
> fullest...
>
> ...jeff
>

>
>
> --- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:Mellotronists%40yahoogroups.com>, "Andy Thompson"
> <andy.thompson@...> wrote:
> >
> He then shifted across to drippy love songs, also banal.
>
> Here is my heart
> Waiting for you
> Here is my soul
> I eat at chez nous
> (Love Will Find A Way - Big Generator)
> Maybe Trevor Rabin wrote these wonderful lyrics...or was it JA?
> I eat at chez nous? That kind of sticks out like a sore thumb.
>
> Let's go to the Zoo. Now that would be better would it not?
>
> It's fun to find fault with lyrics.
> Clay

On 16-Nov-07, at 12:00 PM, leetronhead wrote:

> ... hey google up lyrics to Beach Boys "Surf's Up" and
> please explain ....wot da hell?????????

LOL... that's hilarious. What the hell indeed!!!

Sounds like something out of Beefheart's Trout Mask Replica!!!

I was blown away when I srtarted reading the lyrics on
the CD, those lyrics are totally out there!

"Fast and Bulbous!!!"

Robert

> Not at all; I assume you're closed-minded because your contribution to
> the topic was to toss a cheap Jon Anderson insult over the transom.
>

> > Donald, your comments are a very unfortunate example of an "I'm
> > right, so that makes you wrong" exchange.
>
> If you don't get JA, that's fine; I neither mind nor care.

> In a message dated 11/16/2007 5:15:56 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> d.etheridge1@... writes:
>
> (Springsteen? overblown, distorted rubbish for me)
>
>
> Personally, I think Springsteen's new CD is awesome.

Honestly, I'm a big fan of the California surfin music genre in general...inc. the old Dick Dale stuff.

(My brother saw him recently at the Birchmere , and he put on a great show for an old guy).

I'd say it was an American thing...but I understand Keith Moon was a big surf music fan...so it wasn't just a thing on this "side of the pond" - as they say.

-----Original Message-----
From: lsf5275@...
Sent: Nov 16, 2007 12:37 PM
To: mike.dickson@..., don@...
Cc: rick@..., Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Mellotronists] Re: question/observation

Did anyone here ever like Jan and Dean? I thought the had some good lyrics. Remember "Dead Man's Curve?" Descriptive writing... and prophetic. Who could forget Little Old Lady From Pasadena? Or "Sidewalk Surfin."

See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.

----- Original Message -----

From: Roddenberry

To: Mellotronists

Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 12:09 PM

Subject: Re: [Mellotronists] Re: question/observation

Hi,
On 16-Nov-07, at 12:00 PM, leetronhead wrote:

> ... hey google up lyrics to Beach Boys "Surf's Up" and
> please explain ....wot da hell???????? ?

LOL... that's hilarious. What the hell indeed!!!

Sounds like something out of Beefheart's Trout Mask Replica!!!

I was blown away when I srtarted reading the lyrics on
the CD, those lyrics are totally out there!

"Fast and Bulbous!!!"

Robert

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.34/1134 - Release Date: 11/16/2007 9:52 AM

> I'm amazed by the furious nature of the uproar over lyrics the last
> couple of days. Serious question, am I the only person here that
> thinks that music is almost always better without lyrics?

> You can bet they did!
> To me it's all about the "sound".
> Magma had a growling sound to it that fit the music.
> Whether you liked it or not sure doesn't matter to me!
> Tony
> #510
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bernie
> To: Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 7:59 AM
> Subject: [Mellotronists] Re: question/observation
>
> Didn't Magma also use a made-up language for their recordings?

> think they were supposed to tell a story though.
>
> Bernie

> In addition, the knee-jerk reaction of prog fans to leap
>to his defence makes it amusing as well, particularly when they trot out
>the usual 'impressionism with words' tripe that they parrot from JA
>himself as his own somewhat limited defence.

>
>As an aside, it's interesting to observe that this is at least one of
>the reasons why Prog Rock has managed to maintain its level of
>unfettered ridicule over the years; grown men still argue about the
>'meaning' and 'value' of clearly randomly spouted lyrics, fuelled in a
>hazing fug of dope smoke, from a record that is about 35 years old.

>
> I've always been partial to Elvis Costello, myself. There is some

> good word play on This Year's Model (and a majority of his

> suppose). Wasn't there some accusation that he used a computer

> write his songs?
>
> Jimmy Moore
>
> On Nov 16, 2007 9:31 AM, Bernie <kornowicz@...> wrote:
>
> > Yeah, I agree about the sound. I generally only listen to the
> > overall sound and don't pay much attention to the lyrics. Most

> > lyrics are pretty dorky anyway. There are a few exceptions

> >
> > Bernie
> >
> > --- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com <Mellotronists%

> > "Tony1" <ferrarimanatm1@>
> >
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > You can bet they did!
> > > To me it's all about the "sound".
> > > Magma had a growling sound to it that fit the music.
> > > Whether you liked it or not sure doesn't matter to me!
> > > Tony
> > > #510
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Bernie
> > > To: Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com <Mellotronists%

> > > Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 7:59 AM
> > > Subject: [Mellotronists] Re: question/observation
> > >
> > >
> > > Didn't Magma also use a made-up language for their recordings?

> > > think they were supposed to tell a story though.
> > >
> > > Bernie
> > >
> > > --- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com <Mellotronists%

> > tronbros@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Just to say, there is a band called Sigur Ros from Iceland

> > > also use
> > > > lyrics in a JA stylee but rather than sing recognisable words
> > that
> > > can be
> > > > interpreted as having a meaning, they sing in a made up
> > language
> > > to achieve the
> > > > atmosphere for the music they are playing. This seems to be a
> > > purer way to go
> > > > about things. There isn't the distraction of trying to
> > decipher
> > > the
> > > > undecipherable.
> > > >
> > > > M
> > > > Streetly Electronics - All Things Mellotronic
> > > >
> > > > _www.mellotronics.com_ (http://www.mellotronics.com/)
> > > > US Sales East: Jimmy Moore_ JMoore6397@_
> > > > (http://JMoore6397@/)
> > > > US Sales West: Paul Cox_ pjc56@_ (http://pjc56@/)
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > -----------
> > >
> > >
> > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.31/1130 - Release
> > Date: 11/14/2007 9:27 AM
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>

• In 1974, MacManus married Mary Burgoyne. The couple had a son, Matthew, and divorced in 1984.
• In 1986, Costello married Cait O'Riordan, then bassist for the band The Pogues. The couple split at the end of 2002.
• Costello became engaged to singer Diana Krall in May 2003. In December, Costello and Krall married at the London estate of Sir Elton John. Their twin sons Dexter Henry Lorcan and Frank Harlan James were born December 6, 2006 in New York City.

> Well I heard that David Bowie used to write lyrics, cut the sentences
> up into individual words, and throw them together like some demented
> scrabble on steroids -no one's taken the piss for such a
> 'pretentious' approach. Or does chance immediately bestow street cred
> on DB and not JA?
>

>> As an aside, it's interesting to observe that this is at least one of
>> the reasons why Prog Rock has managed to maintain its level of
>> unfettered ridicule over the years; grown men still argue about the
>> 'meaning' and 'value' of clearly randomly spouted lyrics, fuelled in a
>> hazing fug of dope smoke, from a record that is about 35 years old.
>>
>
> Bollocks -the unfettered ridicule has been from people now ashamed to
> admit that they bought such albums at the time, and then wanted to be
> seen to be cool when they bought the Sex Pistols/name your own genre.
>

> There are a lot of prog fans still out there; yes it's more
> of a cottage industry because prog fans don't give a toss about
> fickle fashion.
>

> Even more ironic is the fact that Yes have lasted a good two decades
> longer than all the bands that were supposed to have toppled them.
>

> Quality music can still win with those who think musically for
> themselves, which is why we're having this discussion and
> followers/haters of the Spice Girls and Sclub7 aren't.

> Well I heard that David Bowie used to write lyrics, cut the sentences
> up into individual words, and throw them together like some demented
> scrabble on steroids -no one's taken the piss for such a
> 'pretentious' approach. Or does chance immediately bestow street cred
> on DB and not JA?
>

>
>
> In a message dated 11/16/2007 3:58:28 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> kornowicz@... writes:
>
> Is this his wife in this clip? I heard it is.
>
> _http://www.youtube.http://wwwhttp://www.yo&<WBR>feature=re_
> (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltiY-BqvOIU&feature=related)
>
> Bernie
>
>
>
>
> Never seen this before. But I do like it a lot.
>

--- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, "Tony" <atm655@...> wrote:
>
> "up wand broom star was an obie man, revered throughout the bone
knob land"
> Captain Beef Heart ......
> correct me plz
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Roddenberry
> To: Mellotronists
> Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 12:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [Mellotronists] Re: question/observation
>
>
> Hi,
> On 16-Nov-07, at 12:00 PM, leetronhead wrote:
>
> > ... hey google up lyrics to Beach Boys "Surf's Up" and
> > please explain ....wot da hell?????????
>
> LOL... that's hilarious. What the hell indeed!!!
>
> Sounds like something out of Beefheart's Trout Mask Replica!!!
>
> I was blown away when I srtarted reading the lyrics on
> the CD, those lyrics are totally out there!
>
> "Fast and Bulbous!!!"
>
> Robert
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.34/1134 - Release Date:
11/16/2007 9:52 AM
>

> Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:27:21 +0000
> From: Mike Dickson <mike.dickson@...>
>
> > If you don't get JA, that's fine; I neither mind nor care.
>
> I'd go as far as to say that this is patently untrue.

>
> In a message dated 11/16/2007 1:03:43 P.M. Eastern
> Standard Time,
> jonesalley@... writes:
>
> I'm amazed by the furious nature of the uproar over
> lyrics the last couple
> of days.
>
>
>
>
> I really hope no one takes any of this bullshit
> seriously enough to be
> furious. When ever I get upset I just go to my room
> and look at my posters of my
> favorite bands and my tension just washes away.
>
> Then I go to the Virtual John web site and write a
> song about it.
>
>
> Virtual Jon - Yessongs Big Generator
> The Rocky Mountains flying arriving
> Dedicated to Mellotronists, from Frank.
> She can be wonderful
> Land flying seeing
> At Colorado while easy stage
> Close to the inside meeting softly
> Clearly around homeworld
> Looking through solid The Rocky Mountains
> To enjoy
> Brightly gently gently
> Forming up Colorado
> Music was not near Colorado
>
>
>
>
> ************************************** See what's
> new at http://www.aol.com
>

----- Original Message -----

From: jonesalley

To: Mellotronists

Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 1:03 PM

Subject: [Mellotronists] question/observation

I'm amazed by the furious nature of the uproar over lyrics the last couple of days.  Serious question, am I the only person here that thinks that music is almost always better without lyrics?  Lyrics in music strike me as being akin to a car that somebody decides to cover with bottle caps or pennies or stuffed animals or whatever happens to strike their fancy.  No matter what you paste on the car, it's superfluous and doesn't make it a better car.  More often than not, lyrics appear to be a way of compensating for poor composing or crappy poetry, or the combination.  Byron doesn't need melody.  Stravinsky doesn't need lyrics.  They stand quite well on their own strengths without extraneous bric-a-brac. 

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.31/1130 - Release Date: 11/14/2007 9:27 AM

> Did anyone here ever like Jan and Dean? I thought the had some good
> lyrics. Remember "Dead Man's Curve?" Descriptive writing... and
> prophetic. Who could forget Little Old Lady From Pasadena? Or
> "Sidewalk Surfin."

> From: tronbros@...
> Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 05:29:30 EST
>
> If you start removing popular people because they cease to be
> popular with you, then this list might as well close now.

> There have been many a battles over the years but we have all
> emerged unscathed. These lists are full of insults, jibes and
> whatever else. Mike is articulate and caring. He is also well
> respected as having strong voice and measured opinions. He is
> never spontaneous and his contributions are sound in mind and
> thought.

> Your message is none of these things. Think about what you are
> doing.

> > Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:27:21 +0000
> > From: Mike Dickson <mike.dickson@...>
> >
> > > If you don't get JA, that's fine; I neither mind nor care.
> >
> > I'd go as far as to say that this is patently untrue.
>
> That's it... Enough of the insults, enough of the tirades, enough of
> the rudeness, enough calling me a liar. Dickson, you are off the
> list. I can't believe I put up with it this long. I so don't have
> time for this nonesense.
>
> What is the freaking deal with this behavior where one tries to be as
> much of an asshole as humanly possible? In what corner of hell is
> this considered a good thing? Jeeeze...
>
> -- Don

Because I'm running this list, it's all about free discourse and
politeness, learning from each other, sharing ideas and resources, and
promoting a culturally important musical instrument. If you can't
deal with that, please leave. If the level of politeness is not up to
my standards, I'll remove the rude people.

And if there are too many rude people I'll simply shut down the list.
Because it's just not worth it to me to deal with a bunch of assholes.

-- Don

 

 

Don

 

 

Mike has been no more insulting than he has been many times in the past. The difference is this time his words were directed at you.

 

 

Come on Don... Don't be a pansy. We all eventually work things through. Mike is important to this list. Don't make that mistake. Suck it up and move on.

 

Frank II

> From: "Mark Wallis" <markstuartwallis@ hotmail.com>
> Sender: Mellotronists@ yahoogroups. com
>
> Just wondering if I've been kicked off the

> list. I may indeed have made one or two unpopular

> upheld some less-than-purist points of view but

> appreciated some notification if I actually have

> unsubscribed.

> Donald Tillman wrote:
>>> Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:27:21 +0000
>>> From: Mike Dickson <mike.dickson@...>
>>>
>>>> If you don't get JA, that's fine; I neither mind nor care.
>>>
>>> I'd go as far as to say that this is patently untrue.
>>
>> That's it... Enough of the insults, enough of the tirades, enough of
>> the rudeness, enough calling me a liar. Dickson, you are off the
>> list. I can't believe I put up with it this long. I so don't have
>> time for this nonesense.
>>
>> What is the freaking deal with this behavior where one tries to be as
>> much of an asshole as humanly possible? In what corner of hell is
>> this considered a good thing? Jeeeze...
>>
>> -- Don
>
> Don,
>
> I've been on this list since it started which is a long time. In all
> that time there have been a lot of rude messages, a lot of name
> calling,
> a lot of hurt feelings. That seems to be the nature of email lists -
> I've been on lots.

The Ventures were my guitar teachers on vinyl. Nokie is awesome!! Makes me want to break out my all black Fillmore Mosrite this evening.

Bernie

--- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, "Pomeroy Ranch" <punchbowl4@...> wrote:
>
> As a big Ventures fan, it's hard to beat that instrumental wizardry, esp.
> when they slyly rip all those old surf tunes - Nokie Edwards is great!
>
>
>
> I had a friend who used to be one of Dick Dale's 'Deltonettes' - he has
> amazing energy!!
>
>
>
> Vance - (Mosrites rule!!)
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of leetronhead
> Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 6:38 PM
> To: Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Mellotronists] Re: question/observation
>
>
>
> I understand Paul and Ringo were huge surin' fans...
> I just saw Dean Torence and Al Jardine (Beach Boys) tigether with Billy
> Hinchie (Carl Wilson's ex brother in law and from Dino Desi and
> Billy)...they were better than any current Beach Boys lineup in a long
> time.
> I love surf music...Dick Dale is the man
> Lee
>

--- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, "Bernie" <kornowicz@...> wrote:
>
>
> The Ventures were my guitar teachers on vinyl. Nokie is awesome!!
Makes
> me want to break out my all black Fillmore Mosrite this evening.
[:)]
>
> Bernie
>
>
> --- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, "Pomeroy Ranch" <punchbowl4@>
> wrote:
> >
> > As a big Ventures fan, it's hard to beat that instrumental
wizardry,
> esp.
> > when they slyly rip all those old surf tunes - Nokie Edwards is
great!
> >
> >
> >
> > I had a friend who used to be one of Dick Dale's 'Deltonettes' -
he
> has
> > amazing energy!!
> >
> >
> >
> > Vance - (Mosrites rule!!)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com]
> > On Behalf Of leetronhead
> > Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 6:38 PM
> > To: Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Mellotronists] Re: question/observation
> >
> >
> >
> > I understand Paul and Ringo were huge surin' fans...
> > I just saw Dean Torence and Al Jardine (Beach Boys) tigether with
> Billy
> > Hinchie (Carl Wilson's ex brother in law and from Dino Desi and
> > Billy)...they were better than any current Beach Boys lineup in a
long
> > time.
> > I love surf music...Dick Dale is the man
> > Lee
> >
>

> From: Bob Snyder <bob.snyder@...>
> Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 06:58:45 -0800
>
> I've been on this list since it started which is a long time. In
> all that time there have been a lot of rude messages, a lot of
> name calling, a lot of hurt feelings. That seems to be the nature
> of email lists -

> From: Mark Pring <markpringnz@...>
> Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 11:39:28 -0800 (PST)
>
> Below is a copy of your email reply to Mark Wallis in July when
> he thought he had been removed from the group.

> I don't recall Mike making any threats.

> I remember some one ( but not who) saying that one needed a very
> thick skin to be on the list. I think this is true,

> From: Jim Anderson <jimanderson@...>
> Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 15:26:17 -0800
>
> I'd say for truth of advertising we should just rename the list to
> Mellotronassholeists and welcome everyone.

> From: "jonesalley" <jonesalley@...>
> Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 19:40:47 -0600
>
> I'm not going to venture an opinion on the list as to whether
> Mike should be a member or not. I only wish to remind everyone
> that this is a private group that is owned and moderated solely
> by Don under Yahoo's terms, and while things are obviously
> free-ranging it is still Don's Yahoo! Group and not a democracy.

> From: lsf5275@...
> Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 21:36:02 EST
>
> Jon, without a doubt, that is (some of) the lamest bullshit I
> have ever read on this list.

> Jon, Don might have started this list, but it now transcends
> him. It isn't his. It is all of ours and we trust him to moderate
> it. But to do so, he must remain neutral and follow a fair set
> of rules. He doesn't get to throw people out that piss him
> off. That's not fair. We should all have a say.

> Moderate, don't censor.

> From: Rick Blechta <rick@...>
> Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 09:33:50 -0500
>
> Could I respectfully point out that at the beginning of this debacle,
> you were what I considered very rude to me?

> Various bits of hate mail (just kidding)...
>
> > From: Bob Snyder <bob.snyder@...>
> > Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 06:58:45 -0800
> >
> > I've been on this list since it started which
> is a long time. In
> > all that time there have been a lot of rude
> messages, a lot of
> > name calling, a lot of hurt feelings. That
> seems to be the nature
> > of email lists -
>
> I agree, there have been a lot of rude messages,
> name calling and hurt
> feelings. That's *not* a good thing.
>
> And that is *not* the nature of email lists, that's
> the nature of
> immature participants. For comparision, check out
> the "synth-diy"
> list, which has long been a beacon of politeness, of
> learning, of
> sharing ideas in a positive environment, and with
> discussions that,
> almost without exception, end up expanding the state
> of the art of
> synthesizer design.
>
> > From: Mark Pring <markpringnz@...>
> > Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 11:39:28 -0800 (PST)
> >
> > Below is a copy of your email reply to Mark
> Wallis in July when
> > he thought he had been removed from the group.
>
> Okay.
>
> > I don't recall Mike making any threats.
>
> So I'm not allowed to elevate the standards of the
> list? Would you be
> happier if I lowered the standards? I'm sure you
> would.
>
> > I remember some one ( but not who) saying that
> one needed a very
> > thick skin to be on the list. I think this is
> true,
>
> I agree, and that's a Really Bad Thing. Why should
> anybody need a
> thick skin? Why shouldn't somebody be able to make
> an insightful
> point about music without a gang of brutes roughing
> him up? Why
> shouldn't newcomers be welcomed in? Why shouldn't
> people be treated
> with respect?
>
> > From: Jim Anderson <jimanderson@...>
> > Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 15:26:17 -0800
> >
> > I'd say for truth of advertising we should just
> rename the list to
> > Mellotronassholeists and welcome everyone.
>
> Jim, you have nailed the issue right there.
>
> > From: "jonesalley" <jonesalley@...>
> > Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 19:40:47 -0600
> >
> > I'm not going to venture an opinion on the list
> as to whether
> > Mike should be a member or not. I only wish to
> remind everyone
> > that this is a private group that is owned and
> moderated solely
> > by Don under Yahoo's terms, and while things
> are obviously
> > free-ranging it is still Don's Yahoo! Group and
> not a democracy.
>
> Jonesalley is correct. But it's nothing really. By
> nothing I mean
> it's a free service provided by Yahoo.
>
> > From: lsf5275@...
> > Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 21:36:02 EST
> >
> > Jon, without a doubt, that is (some of) the
> lamest bullshit I
> > have ever read on this list.
>
> No Frank, it's absolutely true.
>
> > Jon, Don might have started this list, but it
> now transcends
> > him. It isn't his. It is all of ours and we
> trust him to moderate
> > it. But to do so, he must remain neutral and
> follow a fair set
> > of rules. He doesn't get to throw people out
> that piss him
> > off. That's not fair. We should all have a say.
>
> Only in your fertile imagination, Frank.
>
> > Moderate, don't censor.
>
> First off, moderating a list takes way too much
> time. The moderator
> has to read and decide on each posting in a timely
> manner. I don't
> have time for that. You see, I have a life, a
> family, a day job, and
> literally hundreds of really important projects I'm
> working on. Hell,
> I don't even have time to read all my hate mail.
>
> Secondly, if a list needs to be moderated, it's
> proof positive that
> the participants are far too immature to interact
> without adult
> supervision.
>
> Third, you're advocating censorship.
>
> Fourth, don't be telling me what to do.
>
> > From: Rick Blechta <rick@...>
> > Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 09:33:50 -0500
> >
> > Could I respectfully point out that at the
> beginning of this debacle,
> > you were what I considered very rude to me?
>
> Oh crap, I may have Blechta and Dickson confused.
> Did I throw out the
> wrong guy? :-)
>
> ----------------
>
> So, the issue here is that the manager of this list
> is at odds with
> the content of this list. It's not doing any good
> for music or
> musical instruments, two things I care very much
> about. There's way
> too much rudeness, way too much fighting, nothing
> positive. And
> positivity is something I also care about.
>
> So I'm thinking this list, while started with the
> best of intentions,
> is actually doing more harm than good. And that's
> not a good thing.
>
> -- Don
>
> --
> Don Tillman
> Palo Alto, California
> don@...
> http://www.till.com
>

> From: lsf5275@...
> Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 21:36:02 EST
>
> Jon, without a doubt, that is (some of) the lamest bullshit I
> have ever read on this list.

No Frank, it's absolutely true.

I agree here.

> Jon, Don might have started this list, but it now transcends
> him. It isn't his.

Yes it is, and that's the whole point.  And I would suggest that he has to take the can when something goes wrong. On one synth group on the net (I needn't say which- oh all right then, a Roland site)  it was hijacked by spammers as the owner moderator went awol, so the more serious/creative members left and started a proper group list, leaving the tossers to their fun. Any list owner has a moral obligation when dealing with any serious subject to keep an eye on things and make sure that it doesn't descend into anarchy -another example is the Off topic list on Sound on Sound's site, which was binned -for various reasons, one of which was the number of complaints SOS received from readers. There were other reasons as well, but the flame artists now have their own playground elsewhere on the net for general rudeness and flame wars.

I hope this illustrates my point.

 It is all of ours and we trust him to moderate
> it. But to do so, he must remain neutral and follow a fair set

> of rules.

Being independent oand objective needs the patience of Job. Any takers?

Third, you're advocating censorship.

Indeed.

Dave.

> Various bits of hate mail (just kidding)...
>
> > From: Bob Snyder <bob.snyder@...>
> > Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 06:58:45 -0800
> >
> > I've been on this list since it started which
> is a long time. In
> > all that time there have been a lot of rude
> messages, a lot of
> > name calling, a lot of hurt feelings. That
> seems to be the nature
> > of email lists -
>
> I agree, there have been a lot of rude messages,
> name calling and hurt
> feelings. That's *not* a good thing.
>
> And that is *not* the nature of email lists, that's
> the nature of
> immature participants. For comparision, check out
> the "synth-diy"
> list, which has long been a beacon of politeness, of
> learning, of
> sharing ideas in a positive environment, and with
> discussions that,
> almost without exception, end up expanding the state
> of the art of
> synthesizer design.
>
> > From: Mark Pring <markpringnz@...>
> > Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 11:39:28 -0800 (PST)
> >
> > Below is a copy of your email reply to Mark
> Wallis in July when
> > he thought he had been removed from the group.
>
> Okay.
>
> > I don't recall Mike making any threats.
>
> So I'm not allowed to elevate the standards of the
> list? Would you be
> happier if I lowered the standards? I'm sure you
> would.
>
> > I remember some one ( but not who) saying that
> one needed a very
> > thick skin to be on the list. I think this is
> true,
>
> I agree, and that's a Really Bad Thing. Why should
> anybody need a
> thick skin? Why shouldn't somebody be able to make
> an insightful
> point about music without a gang of brutes roughing
> him up? Why
> shouldn't newcomers be welcomed in? Why shouldn't
> people be treated
> with respect?
>
> > From: Jim Anderson <jimanderson@...>
> > Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 15:26:17 -0800
> >
> > I'd say for truth of advertising we should just
> rename the list to
> > Mellotronassholeists and welcome everyone.
>
> Jim, you have nailed the issue right there.
>
> > From: "jonesalley" <jonesalley@...>
> > Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 19:40:47 -0600
> >
> > I'm not going to venture an opinion on the list
> as to whether
> > Mike should be a member or not. I only wish to
> remind everyone
> > that this is a private group that is owned and
> moderated solely
> > by Don under Yahoo's terms, and while things
> are obviously
> > free-ranging it is still Don's Yahoo! Group and
> not a democracy.
>
> Jonesalley is correct. But it's nothing really. By
> nothing I mean
> it's a free service provided by Yahoo.
>
> > From: lsf5275@...
> > Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 21:36:02 EST
> >
> > Jon, without a doubt, that is (some of) the
> lamest bullshit I
> > have ever read on this list.
>
> No Frank, it's absolutely true.
>
> > Jon, Don might have started this list, but it
> now transcends
> > him. It isn't his. It is all of ours and we
> trust him to moderate
> > it. But to do so, he must remain neutral and
> follow a fair set
> > of rules. He doesn't get to throw people out
> that piss him
> > off. That's not fair. We should all have a say.
>
> Only in your fertile imagination, Frank.
>
> > Moderate, don't censor.
>
> First off, moderating a list takes way too much
> time. The moderator
> has to read and decide on each posting in a timely
> manner. I don't
> have time for that. You see, I have a life, a
> family, a day job, and
> literally hundreds of really important projects I'm
> working on. Hell,
> I don't even have time to read all my hate mail.
>
> Secondly, if a list needs to be moderated, it's
> proof positive that
> the participants are far too immature to interact
> without adult
> supervision.
>
> Third, you're advocating censorship.
>
> Fourth, don't be telling me what to do.
>
> > From: Rick Blechta <rick@...>
> > Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 09:33:50 -0500
> >
> > Could I respectfully point out that at the
> beginning of this debacle,
> > you were what I considered very rude to me?
>
> Oh crap, I may have Blechta and Dickson confused.
> Did I throw out the
> wrong guy? :-)
>
> ----------------
>
> So, the issue here is that the manager of this list
> is at odds with
> the content of this list. It's not doing any good
> for music or
> musical instruments, two things I care very much
> about. There's way
> too much rudeness, way too much fighting, nothing
> positive. And
> positivity is something I also care about.
>
> So I'm thinking this list, while started with the
> best of intentions,
> is actually doing more harm than good. And that's
> not a good thing.
>
> -- Don
>
> --
> Don Tillman
> Palo Alto, California
> don@...
> http://www.till.com
>

>
> Good riddance to him.
>
> I know he's a Streetly friend etc..etc.., but he's the
> only guy that has EVER threatened to fly to the US and
> beat me up because I didn't agree with his Mellotron
> affiliations and opinions.

> --- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, mark kasian
> <easle12@...> wrote:
> >
> > Good riddance to him.
> >
> > I know he's a Streetly friend etc..etc.., but he's
> the
> > only guy that has EVER threatened to fly to the US
> and
> > beat me up because I didn't agree with his
> Mellotron
> > affiliations and opinions.
>
> LOL - dude, I just nearly spat my tea out over my
> monitor reading
> that. Threatening to fly over to the US and beat you
> up is hilarious.
> What makes it even funnier was that you thought he
> was serious.
> Really, the only funnier thing he could've
> threatened to do is fly
> over to the US, get your mellotron, put it in a
> field, pour kerosine
> over it and set fire to it.
> On a YACHT.
>
>
>
>

>
> As a big Ventures fan, it's hard to beat that instrumental

> when they slyly rip all those old surf tunes - Nokie Edwards is

>
>
>
> I had a friend who used to be one of Dick Dale's 'Deltonettes' -

> amazing energy!!
>
>
>
> Vance - (Mosrites rule!!)
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com

> On Behalf Of leetronhead
> Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 6:38 PM
> To: Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Mellotronists] Re: question/observation
>
>
>
> I understand Paul and Ringo were huge surin' fans...
> I just saw Dean Torence and Al Jardine (Beach Boys) tigether with

> Hinchie (Carl Wilson's ex brother in law and from Dino Desi and
> Billy)...they were better than any current Beach Boys lineup in a

> time.
> I love surf music...Dick Dale is the man
> Lee
>