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return of the clones

return of the clones

2007-06-05 by jonesalley

After reading with interest the points behind the clone debates over the last couple of days, what really strikes me is the comments about Memotrons and Mellotrons and DX-7's share a lot of ground. The problem with the DX-7 is the cryptic nature of the programming. If an instrument requires that amount of effort to learn how to use and is actually counterintuitive to the already-established lexicon of sound generation, it eventually drives away users who will be attracted to something that provides similar sonic power with more ease of use. Korg tried to make the Yamaha FM technology more familiar to people who already knew analog programming with a fair amount of success, but FM was already declining. No matter how powerful the actual synth engine may be, if it utterly lacks user-friendliness, it will be surpassed. A lot of the qualities of the Mellotron that make it such a powerful instrument could also as easily be described as liabilities by people who didn't find that it satisfied their quest for the right vibration. I can't stand transistor combo organs, some people swear by them. I have long had a taste for odd instruments, and my approach to any instrument is looking for what it is capable of more than what it isn't. Obviously, along the way you find the weaknesses of the instrument and eventually if too many of them pile up, you have to make the personal call as to whether or not you find it musically useful to you. Like I said, I can't stand transistor combo organs, but it's because they are incapable of making the vibrations in the air that speak with the voice I want to use no matter how skillfully I might use them.

Re: [Mellotronists] return of the clones

2007-06-05 by lsf5275@aol.com

In a message dated 6/5/2007 5:54:45 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jonesalley@... writes:
Like I said, I can't stand transistor combo organs, but it's because they are incapable of making the vibrations in the air that speak with the voice I want to use no matter how skillfully I might use them.
Well put, Jon, but you liked the Doors, right? And ? and the mysterions?



See what's free at AOL.com.

Re: [Mellotronists] return of the clones

2007-06-05 by jonesalley

Nope, couldn't stand either of them, but I don't like most rock music. Don't get me wrong, I really like what I do like, but I doubt that's more than a hundred rock albums.
put, Jon, but you liked the Doors, right? And ? and the mysterions?

Re: [Mellotronists] return of the clones

2007-06-06 by Donald Tillman

> From: "jonesalley" <jonesalley@...>
> Sender: Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com
>
> After reading with interest the points behind the clone debates
> over the last couple of days, what really strikes me is the
> comments about Memotrons and Mellotrons and DX-7's share a lot of
> ground. The problem with the DX-7 is the cryptic nature of the
> programming.

Well, the DX-7 is a very special case. Here we have a breakthrough
design that solves a whole bunch of problems in a creative way and the
result is a whole new canvas of voices.

Yamaha wanted to make a digital polyphonic synth, but given 1982
technology they couldn't implement digital filters because real-time
digital multiply operations were just too expensive, and they couldn't
do sampling because memory was too expensive. So they put together a
very clever implementation of Stanford CCRMA's FM synthesis that only
uses real-time adds and table lookups. This was brilliant, it broke
all preconceptions and provided whole new ways to think about
electronic music.

On the negative side, yeah, programming FM is unbelievably arcane.
It's like solving a Rubic's cube; really, you can be a move or two
from your goal and you wouldn't know it. And the primitive UI on the
DX-7 makes it like solving the Rubic's Cube through a letterbox.
Blindfolded.

And yeah, it lacks warmth. And that clangy electric piano sound was
getting annoying after appearing on way too many really bad songs.

But the thing about the DX-7 is that it wasn't trying to be something
it wasn't. FM synthesis does some things well, and there are many
things it can't do at all, and that's okay, and there are some other
things it does that nobody else can do, and that's great. The DX-7
didn't pretend to be another instrument, although FM synthesis could
mimic some standard instruments (pianos, organs, flutes, etc.) better
in some ways than most samplers.

> If an instrument requires that amount of effort to learn how to
> use and is actually counterintuitive to the already-established
> lexicon of sound generation, it eventually drives away users who
> will be attracted to something that provides similar sonic power
> with more ease of use.

Certainly. But every musical instrument has a learning curve. Some
learning curves are longer and more difficult than others, some have a
steep beginning, some have a bigger payoff than others, some might
give the player some encouraging sense of accomplishment along the
way.

Hey, at least with the DX-7 your fingers aren't left bleeding like
with the learning curve on a string bass, eh? Or your neighbors don't
burn your house down like with the learning curve on bagpipes.

Are you suggesting that modern keyboard players demand instant
gratification and are not accepting of any learning curve? That may
be so.

> A lot of the qualities of the Mellotron that make it such a
> powerful instrument could also as easily be described as
> liabilities by people who didn't find that it satisfied their
> quest for the right vibration.

Sure, but that's true of just about any musical instrument. The road
of pleasing everybody leads to mediocrity, eh?

-- Don

--
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California
don@...
http://www.till.com

Re: return of the clones

2007-06-06 by ceccles_ca

--- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, Donald Tillman <don@...> wrote:

> And the primitive UI on the DX-7 makes it like solving the Rubic's
Cube through a letterbox. Blindfolded.

Yes indeed! A nasty UI for sure. This is where a digital sampler can
really shine. Get some custom programmed DX samples.

I lost a DX-11 years ago. I now use the DX REX samples with
GigaStudio. This is a case where the samples are far better than the
original instrument. Much better signal to noise, higher polyphony
and no "Rubic's Cube through a letterbox" programming.

Clay

Re: recorded music collections

2007-06-06 by Jason Locke

This got me thinking -- how extensive are your personal CD/LP/CS/45s/78s/8-track collections? Are most of your focused in your selections, or are you like me -- all over the place and unable to do anything but add to a neverending pile? I'm taking inventory as we speak, trying to weed out things that I don't even listen to, getting rid of awful albums by favorites artists. In the past, I was a collector who had to have everything by an artist whether I really liked it or not, but now...man, it's just too overwhelming. As an example, do I really need to hang on to Yes' "Union"? I never feel the need to listen to it. Are there artists you still feel the need to have it all?
Sorry if this is too off topic. My estimate is about 1200 CDs, 1500 LPs, 1000 cassettes that are never touched these days, 200 45s, and even a few 8-tracks that I haven't parted with. I also know this is NOTHING compared to some collections, but I was just curious...
Jason
np: bee gees' 1st, with some decent mellotron moments...I'll be keeing this one.

jonesalley <jonesalley@...> wrote:
Nope, couldn't stand either of them, but I don't like most rock music. Don't get me wrong, I really like what I do like, but I doubt that's more than a hundred rock albums.
put, Jon, but you liked the Doors, right? And ? and the mysterions?

RE: [Mellotronists] Re: recorded music collections

2007-06-06 by Mark Wallis

Very good point.. I got into Yes via 'And You and I' (still love that so
much..) in the mid 80s- when I was 14 - and bought loads of Wakeman albums
during my own 'completist' phase. Most haven't been played too many times
and all are (at least) second-hand. Not that I'm knocking the esteemed Mr W,
he's a big influence on my keyboard playing. As for ABWH.. hmm., and
'Union'.. oh God. I own TWO copies of that atrocity and I know for a fact
that I only bought ONE. So somebody must have secreted theirs into my
records, hoping I wouldn't notice..

And then there's that Pete Bardens (Camel) solo album.. I went through my
vinyl collection recently and realised with horror that nearly HALF of my
stuff really is unlistenable tosh. Sad thing is, I always knew that. I gave
so many ropey records the benefit of the doubt.

I can trace my history of buying patterns by looking at these things..
Anything with a Roger Dean cover, anything with the M-word in the credits,
etc..

I had high hopes for 'Dance and Shake Your Tambourine' by 'The Universal
Robot Band'.
They too disappointed me. Life can be so unfair.

'Angels' Egg' and 'You' by GONG.. Still wonderful.


Hawkwind- 'Space Ritual'. Now THAT has NEVER let me down!

Play 'Sonic Attack' loudly on earphones whilst walking down the street. It
certainly alters one's perspective..

Try it today.

Go on.

You'll feel like Genghis Khan. ;-)



msw

Standing On The Verge Of Feeding The Cat



_________________________________________________________________________




>From: Jason Locke <jasonlocke@...>
>To: Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [Mellotronists] Re: recorded music collections
>Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 08:12:52 -0700 (PDT)
>
>This got me thinking -- how extensive are your personal
>CD/LP/CS/45s/78s/8-track collections? Are most of your focused in your
>selections, or are you like me -- all over the place and unable to do
>anything but add to a neverending pile? I'm taking inventory as we speak,
>trying to weed out things that I don't even listen to, getting rid of awful
>albums by favorites artists. In the past, I was a collector who had to
>have everything by an artist whether I really liked it or not, but
>now...man, it's just too overwhelming. As an example, do I really need to
>hang on to Yes' "Union"? I never feel the need to listen to it. Are there
>artists you still feel the need to have it all?
>
> Sorry if this is too off topic. My estimate is about 1200 CDs, 1500
>LPs, 1000 cassettes that are never touched these days, 200 45s, and even a
>few 8-tracks that I haven't parted with. I also know this is NOTHING
>compared to some collections, but I was just curious...
>
> Jason
>
> np: bee gees' 1st, with some decent mellotron moments...I'll be keeing
>this one.
>
>jonesalley <jonesalley@...> wrote:
> Nope, couldn't stand either of them, but I don't like most rock
>music. Don't get me wrong, I really like what I do like, but I doubt
>that's more than a hundred rock albums.
> put, Jon, but you liked the Doors, right? And ? and the mysterions?
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Play your part in making history - Email Britain!
http://www.emailbritain.co.uk/

RE: [Mellotronists] Re: recorded music collections

2007-06-06 by Jason Locke

That's exactly it, Mark -- I really WANTED to like a lot of this stuff! Yet there's still so much more to hear, Hawkwind being the PERFECT example. I don't know a single person here in the States that truly knows them...
1,000 CDs should be enough, right? I mean, if I listen to say, two each day, it would take me about what, a year and a half to hear them all? Or should I resign myself to the fact that I will always want to hear more and never let any of my music go, since it does define me, if not at present, then at some point in my life. When was the last time I really had a hankering to listen to, oh, I don't know, The Wonder Stuff? I never loved Elvis, either. :)
Weigh in! How ridiculously extensive are your collections?

Mark Wallis <markstuartwallis@...> wrote:
Very good point.. I got into Yes via 'And You and I' (still love that so
much..) in the mid 80s- when I was 14 - and bought loads of Wakeman albums
during my own 'completist' phase. Most haven't been played too many times
and all are (at least) second-hand. Not that I'm knocking the esteemed Mr W,
he's a big influence on my keyboard playing. As for ABWH.. hmm., and
'Union'.. oh God. I own TWO copies of that atrocity and I know for a fact
that I only bought ONE. So somebody must have secreted theirs into my
records, hoping I wouldn't notice..

And then there's that Pete Bardens (Camel) solo album.. I went through my
vinyl collection recently and realised with horror that nearly HALF of my
stuff really is unlistenable tosh. Sad thing is, I always knew that. I gave
so many ropey records the benefit of the doubt.

I can trace my history of buying patterns by looking at these things..
Anything with a Roger Dean cover, anything with the M-word in the credits,
etc..

I had high hopes for 'Dance and Shake Your Tambourine' by 'The Universal
Robot Band'.
They too disappointed me. Life can be so unfair.

'Angels' Egg' and 'You' by GONG.. Still wonderful.


Hawkwind- 'Space Ritual'. Now THAT has NEVER let me down!

Play 'Sonic Attack' loudly on earphones whilst walking down the street. It
certainly alters one's perspective..

Try it today.

Go on.

You'll feel like Genghis Khan. ;-)



msw

Standing On The Verge Of Feeding The Cat



_________________________________________________________________________




>From: Jason Locke
>To: Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [Mellotronists] Re: recorded music collections
>Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 08:12:52 -0700 (PDT)
>
>This got me thinking -- how extensive are your personal
>CD/LP/CS/45s/78s/8-track collections? Are most of your focused in your
>selections, or are you like me -- all over the place and unable to do
>anything but add to a neverending pile? I'm taking inventory as we speak,
>trying to weed out things that I don't even listen to, getting rid of awful
>albums by favorites artists. In the past, I was a collector who had to
>have everything by an artist whether I really liked it or not, but
>now...man, it's just too overwhelming. As an example, do I really need to
>hang on to Yes' "Union"? I never feel the need to listen to it. Are there
>artists you still feel the need to have it all?
>
> Sorry if this is too off topic. My estimate is about 1200 CDs, 1500
>LPs, 1000 cassettes that are never touched these days, 200 45s, and even a
>few 8-tracks that I haven't parted with. I also know this is NOTHING
>compared to some collections, but I was just curious...
>
> Jason
>
> np: bee gees' 1st, with some decent mellotron moments...I'll be keeing
>this one.
>
>jonesalley wrote:
> Nope, couldn't stand either of them, but I don't like most rock
>music. Don't get me wrong, I really like what I do like, but I doubt
>that's more than a hundred rock albums.
> put, Jon, but you liked the Doors, right? And ? and the mysterions?
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Play your part in making history - Email Britain!
http://www.emailbritain.co.uk/




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Re: [Mellotronists] return of the clones

2007-06-07 by jonesalley

I'm pretty sure that I never suggested the DX was a bad instrument. I only
said that it was fated to be overcome by gear that was more accessible.
There's no reason that a programming interface should be in Sanskrit, and
that was the choice that Yamaha made, quite possibly in part to try to lock
up their market share. The learning curve is a good thing, but if it is so
steep that it interferes with creating music, it doesn't get climbed by
many. FM is a powerful synthesis method indeed and I look forward to new
implementations and instruments using it. I am fortunate enough to be a
skilled subtractive programmer, I got pretty handy with the Kawai K-5 method
of additive synthesis, and I can make my Korgs sit up and do tricks, but my
DX-11 and DX-100 were so frustrating to even play around with that I decided
that I was better off staying with stuff in which I already had developed
some expertise. As far as musicians these days, I know ONE local keyboard
player who programs, or at least tweaks his own sounds, the rest are just
factory-program Johnnies, and their playing is as pathetic as their sounds.
The modern keyboard player locally stands at his keyboards between songs
toggling through sounds one at a time to find the "right" sound for each
tune. It's fucking embarrassing to watch.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Donald Tillman" <don@...>
To: "jonesalley" <jonesalley@...>
Cc: <Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 12:12 AM
Subject: Re: [Mellotronists] return of the clones


> > From: "jonesalley" <jonesalley@...>
> > Sender: Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > After reading with interest the points behind the clone debates
> > over the last couple of days, what really strikes me is the
> > comments about Memotrons and Mellotrons and DX-7's share a lot of
> > ground. The problem with the DX-7 is the cryptic nature of the
> > programming.
>
> Well, the DX-7 is a very special case. Here we have a breakthrough
> design that solves a whole bunch of problems in a creative way and the
> result is a whole new canvas of voices.
>
> Yamaha wanted to make a digital polyphonic synth, but given 1982
> technology they couldn't implement digital filters because real-time
> digital multiply operations were just too expensive, and they couldn't
> do sampling because memory was too expensive. So they put together a
> very clever implementation of Stanford CCRMA's FM synthesis that only
> uses real-time adds and table lookups. This was brilliant, it broke
> all preconceptions and provided whole new ways to think about
> electronic music.
>
> On the negative side, yeah, programming FM is unbelievably arcane.
> It's like solving a Rubic's cube; really, you can be a move or two
> from your goal and you wouldn't know it. And the primitive UI on the
> DX-7 makes it like solving the Rubic's Cube through a letterbox.
> Blindfolded.
>
> And yeah, it lacks warmth. And that clangy electric piano sound was
> getting annoying after appearing on way too many really bad songs.
>
> But the thing about the DX-7 is that it wasn't trying to be something
> it wasn't. FM synthesis does some things well, and there are many
> things it can't do at all, and that's okay, and there are some other
> things it does that nobody else can do, and that's great. The DX-7
> didn't pretend to be another instrument, although FM synthesis could
> mimic some standard instruments (pianos, organs, flutes, etc.) better
> in some ways than most samplers.
>
> > If an instrument requires that amount of effort to learn how to
> > use and is actually counterintuitive to the already-established
> > lexicon of sound generation, it eventually drives away users who
> > will be attracted to something that provides similar sonic power
> > with more ease of use.
>
> Certainly. But every musical instrument has a learning curve. Some
> learning curves are longer and more difficult than others, some have a
> steep beginning, some have a bigger payoff than others, some might
> give the player some encouraging sense of accomplishment along the
> way.
>
> Hey, at least with the DX-7 your fingers aren't left bleeding like
> with the learning curve on a string bass, eh? Or your neighbors don't
> burn your house down like with the learning curve on bagpipes.
>
> Are you suggesting that modern keyboard players demand instant
> gratification and are not accepting of any learning curve? That may
> be so.
>
> > A lot of the qualities of the Mellotron that make it such a
> > powerful instrument could also as easily be described as
> > liabilities by people who didn't find that it satisfied their
> > quest for the right vibration.
>
> Sure, but that's true of just about any musical instrument. The road
> of pleasing everybody leads to mediocrity, eh?
>
> -- Don
>
> --
> Don Tillman
> Palo Alto, California
> don@...
> http://www.till.com

Re: recorded music collections

2007-06-07 by Doug Berg

--- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Wallis"
<markstuartwallis@...> wrote:
>
> Very good point.. I got into Yes via 'And You and I' (still love
that so
> much..) in the mid 80s- when I was 14 - and bought loads of
Wakeman albums
> during my own 'completist' phase. Most haven't been played too
many times
> and all are (at least) second-hand. Not that I'm knocking the
esteemed Mr W,
> he's a big influence on my keyboard playing. As for ABWH.. hmm.,
and
> 'Union'.. oh God. I own TWO copies of that atrocity and I know for
a fact
> that I only bought ONE. So somebody must have secreted theirs into
my
> records, hoping I wouldn't notice..
>
> And then there's that Pete Bardens (Camel) solo album.. I went
through my
> vinyl collection recently and realised with horror that nearly
HALF of my
> stuff really is unlistenable tosh. Sad thing is, I always knew
that. I gave
> so many ropey records the benefit of the doubt.
>
> I can trace my history of buying patterns by looking at these
things..
> Anything with a Roger Dean cover, anything with the M-word in the
credits,
> etc..
>
> I had high hopes for 'Dance and Shake Your Tambourine' by 'The
Universal
> Robot Band'.
> They too disappointed me. Life can be so unfair.
>
> 'Angels' Egg' and 'You' by GONG.. Still wonderful.
>
>
> Hawkwind- 'Space Ritual'. Now THAT has NEVER let me down!
>
> Play 'Sonic Attack' loudly on earphones whilst walking down the
street. It
> certainly alters one's perspective..
>
> Try it today.
>
> Go on.
>
> You'll feel like Genghis Khan. ;-)
>
>
>
> msw
>
> Standing On The Verge Of Feeding The Cat
>
>
>
>
_____________________________________________________________________
____
OH NOOOOO I thought I had the only copy left of Univ Robot Band,
back when, did fair amount of airplay, always thought it was
interesting, now in my 12" singles archives. DB

Re: [Mellotronists] return of the clones

2007-06-07 by Donald Tillman

> From: "jonesalley" <jonesalley@...>
> Sender: Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com
>
> I'm pretty sure that I never suggested the DX was a bad instrument.

Not at all... Remember when I said that with digital synths, after 25
to 40 years of digital music development that the best they can do is
to make bad copies of great instruments that are no longer in
production? I wanted to point out that the DX-7 is an exception to
that. The DX-7 was a digital synth that involved wicked creative use
of the technology, it wasn't trying to be a cheap copy of something
it's not, and that sort of character, innovation and joyful
exploration is rarely seen in digital synths.

> There's no reason that a programming interface should be in
> Sanskrit, and that was the choice that Yamaha made, quite
> possibly in part to try to lock up their market share.

Actually there is; FM synthesis, by its very nature, is roughly
equivalent to Sanskrit. That the price you pay to use FM. There are
no filters, and the Bessel functions that describe the waveform
warping are weird as all hell. So it's not really Yamaha's fault.

> The learning curve is a good thing, but if it is so steep that it
> interferes with creating music, it doesn't get climbed by many.

Sure, but there are ways around that. After all, many acoustic
instruments have much steeper learning curves and people have always
invested the time and effort to learn to play those.

One way is for the student to be rewarded each step of the way as they
progress up the learning curve. That way they're encouraged to
practice, explore, and delve in deeper to learn more.

-- Don

--
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California
don@...
http://www.till.com

Re: [Mellotronists] return of the clones

2007-06-07 by kinchmusic@aol.com

The only thing I would say about the DX7 is that I could never get a sound that was warm and, no pun intended, "organic" from it. Even "the" Rhodes patch, I found sterile and without soul. And that, for what it was, it was ridiculously heavy!
DId anyone here get anything like a passable tron sound from it? I've heard many attempts over the years. All complete failures!
Andy K

Re: [Mellotronists] return of the clones

2007-06-07 by jonesalley

I wanted to point out that the DX-7 is an exception to
> that. The DX-7 was a digital synth that involved wicked creative use
> of the technology, it wasn't trying to be a cheap copy of something
> it's not, and that sort of character, innovation and joyful
> exploration is rarely seen in digital synths.

----Agreed, quite probably the end of that era. Keyboards got more like
modern cars real fast after that, real hard to tell them apart. I know that
the biggest part of my preference for Korg's digital stuff is I just like
their basic sample set better than anyone else's.





> Actually there is; FM synthesis, by its very nature, is roughly
> equivalent to Sanskrit. That the price you pay to use FM. There are
> no filters, and the Bessel functions that describe the waveform
> warping are weird as all hell. So it's not really Yamaha's fault.

----To do it properly, absolutely, but the Korg experiment I mentioned
earlier was a nice but far-short-of-the-mark effort to harness it and make
it a little more intuitive, albeit less capable as well. The packet
synthesis idea in one of those synth videos sounds really promising.
Sounds a little like Wavestation-type wave sequencing with FM. I can't see
how it would not be possible for FM to be capable of creating ANY sound with
sufficient control over the parameters, and make it with more realism and
authenticity than any other form of synthesis.






> > The learning curve is a good thing, but if it is so steep that it
> > interferes with creating music, it doesn't get climbed by many.
>
> Sure, but there are ways around that. After all, many acoustic
> instruments have much steeper learning curves and people have always
> invested the time and effort to learn to play those.
>
> One way is for the student to be rewarded each step of the way as they
> progress up the learning curve. That way they're encouraged to
> practice, explore, and delve in deeper to learn more.

----Which was exactly what ultimately made me abandon FM. No puzzle pieces
ever really fit together for me no matter what, and there were alternatives
that let me get acceptably close to what I wanted to do without the arcane
ways. I anticipate the new developments, I just hope they will let me
figure them out!

Re: [Mellotronists] Re: recorded music collections

2007-06-07 by Andy Thompson

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 6:34 PM
Subject: RE: [Mellotronists] Re: recorded music collections
Jason

That's exactly it, Mark -- I really WANTED to like a lot of this stuff! Yet there's still so much more to hear, Hawkwind being the PERFECT example. I don't know a single person here in the States that truly knows them...
1,000 CDs should be enough, right?
1000? ONE THOUSAND??! Wimp. :-))
I mean, if I listen to say, two each day, it would take me about what, a year and a half to hear them all? Or should I resign myself to the fact that I will always want to hear more and never let any of my music go, since it does define me, if not at present, then at some point in my life. When was the last time I really had a hankering to listen to, oh, I don't know, The Wonder Stuff? I never loved Elvis, either. :)
Weigh in! How ridiculously extensive are your collections?
Well, including all the CDs people have burned for me, and bootlegs, it's well over 4000. How do I find time to listen to them? Can't say I do, but they're there if I want them! I 'know' (in e-mail terms) someone who has three times that, but, like me, there must be huge swathes of his collection he barely knows.
Andy T (who, despite owning over 4000 recordings, keeps acquiring more).

Re: recorded music collections

2007-06-07 by dandc74

>
> Weigh in! How ridiculously extensive are your collections?
>
>

Ummm......errr.....10,000+ 45rpm singles, 6,000+ LPs, 600 CDs, 200+
10.5" reels of tape, 400 tape cartidges, a dozen 8-tracks....and then
there are those boxes of cassettes. And in the midst of this all, my
favorite audio collection of 35 BSS tapes in their own handy replay and
carrying case! =)

Yeah, I'm nuts.... the following newspaper article attests to it:

http://hjnews.townnews.com/articles/2007/05/30/news/news04.txt

FS. Weller
M400SM #574

Re: [Mellotronists] Re: recorded music collections

2007-06-07 by lsf5275@aol.com

In a message dated 6/7/2007 11:45:07 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, capt_carbonarc@... writes:


>
> Weigh in! How ridiculously extensive are your collections?
>
>

Ummm......errr. ....10,000+ 45rpm singles, 6,000+ LPs, 600 CDs, 200+
10.5" reels of tape, 400 tape cartidges, a dozen 8-tracks.... and then
there are those boxes of cassettes. And in the midst of this all, my
favorite audio collection of 35 BSS tapes in their own handy replay and
carrying case! =)

Yeah, I'm nuts.... the following newspaper article attests to it:

http://hjnews. townnews. com/articles/ 2007/05/30/ news/news04. txt

FS. Weller
M400SM #574

Nice Hobby!
The guy that used to be CFO of our family business embezzled over a million dollars before he was caught. What did he do with the money? Well for starters, he purchased about 30,000 CDs. And guess where he stored them? In our warehouse. Now, once the FBI is done and the case has been prosecuted and settled, I will be given the opportunity to liquidate the collection.



See what's free at AOL.com.

Re: [Mellotronists] return of the clones

2007-06-07 by NormLeete@aol.com

In a message dated 07/06/2007 06:44:39 GMT Standard Time, kinchmusic@... writes:
The only thing I would say about the DX7 is that I could never get a sound that was warm and, no pun intended, "organic" from it. Even "the" Rhodes patch, I found sterile and without soul. And that, for what it was, it was ridiculously heavy!
Warm phat sounds - easy. Make sure that the carrier at the bottom of your algorithm was fixed at subsonic. Results in all manner of warmness. I even programmed "minimoog" lead for someone using that technique.
Norm

Re: [Mellotronists] return of the clones

2007-06-07 by Mike Dickson

NormLeete@... wrote:
Warm phat sounds - easy. Make sure that the carrier at the bottom of your algorithm was fixed at subsonic. Results in all manner of warmness. I even programmed "minimoog" lead for someone using that technique.
Emphatic agreement here, Norm. 'Warm' is often applied to the sound from turntables, but is in reality the deep sound of the belt drive being transmitted through the needle. (Something to which I admit to having a distinct preference)

-- 

Mike Dickson (tron@...) M400 #996
The Official Cynic of Streetly Electronics
Streetly Sample Library http://www.blackcat.demon.co.uk/tron/

RE: [Mellotronists] return of the clones

2007-06-08 by Pomeroy Ranch

The additive synthesis in the Synergy is an interesting opportunity for pushing the envelope – just think if these things had a decent Pentium/Motorola microprocessor instead of an archaic Toshiba Z80 chip…..

Vance

> I'm pretty sure that I never suggested the DX was a bad instrument.

Not at all... Remember when I said that with digital synths, after 25
to 40 years of digital music development that the best they can do is
to make bad copies of great instruments that are no longer in
production? I wanted to point out that the DX-7 is an exception to
that. The DX-7 was a digital synth that involved wicked creative use
of the technology, it wasn't trying to be a cheap copy of something
it's not, and that sort of character, innovation and joyful

(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Re: [Mellotronists] Re: recorded music collections

2007-06-08 by pete

Friend,
Loved the article-good for you!
Pete

dandc74 wrote:
>> Weigh in! How ridiculously extensive are your collections?
>>
>>
>>
>
> Ummm......errr.....10,000+ 45rpm singles, 6,000+ LPs, 600 CDs, 200+
> 10.5" reels of tape, 400 tape cartidges, a dozen 8-tracks....and then
> there are those boxes of cassettes. And in the midst of this all, my
> favorite audio collection of 35 BSS tapes in their own handy replay and
> carrying case! =)
>
> Yeah, I'm nuts.... the following newspaper article attests to it:
>
> http://hjnews.townnews.com/articles/2007/05/30/news/news04.txt
>
> FS. Weller
> M400SM #574
>

Re: recorded music collections

2007-06-08 by Doug Berg

--- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, "ceccles_ca" <ecclesreinson@...>
wrote:
>
> --- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, "Pomeroy Ranch" <punchbowl4@>
> wrote:
>
> Wire-up all of that vinyl to your computer with the Stanton T.90(USB
> or SPDIF):
> http://reviews.digitaltrends.com/review4523_main22623.html
>



RE: Still have my pair of Technics SL1100a and in all honesty have
yet to come across a better turntable. Still use Stanton 680 or 500
cartridges and felt mats on platters. Too bad you can't mix cd's like
you could with records. Doug

Re: recorded music collections

2007-06-08 by Bernie


--- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, "ceccles_ca" <ecclesreinson@...> wrote:
>
> --- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, "Pomeroy Ranch" punchbowl4@
> wrote:
>
> Wire-up all of that vinyl to your computer with the Stanton T.90(USB
> or SPDIF):
> http://reviews.digitaltrends.com/review4523_main22623.html
>

Much nicer than the Audio Technica system I just bought.

Re: [Mellotronists] Re: recorded music collections

2007-06-08 by jeffc@netaxs.com

On Fri, 8 Jun 2007, ceccles_ca wrote:

> --- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, "Pomeroy Ranch" <punchbowl4@...>
> wrote:
>
> Wire-up all of that vinyl to your computer with the Stanton T.90(USB
> or SPDIF):
> http://reviews.digitaltrends.com/review4523_main22623.html



the stantons are on ebay all the time.

i am about to buy my first turntable in 30 years.
the technics sl-220 i bought in high school won't maintain
a constant speed. i even tried a new belt - not stable.

so i'm going to grab a refurbished stanton direct drive
for about $140. i'd love to get something better, but i
just can't justify $400+ for something that won't get
used that much.

i've got about 1400 pieces of vinyl [not including the
archive from the record label i worked at for 15 years.
that would add another 500 pieces or so]. that includes
a ton of 12" singles from the early-mid 80s. i probably
have 30 12"ers by siouxsie and the banshees alone, plus
another 30 by new order.

i'm buying hte turntable so i can put some of the vinyl
onto cd for records that have still not been issued on
cd. lots of weird european electronica and prog.

...jeff [who still has over 500 laserdiscs - love em!]

Re: [Mellotronists] return of the clones

2007-06-08 by gino wong

I had use of a DX knob programmer for a while. I acted like such a
brat my boss rented me one . I used it on the 7 and the TX rack and
got the only truly good Yamaha FM sounds that I ever managed, still
have a few in the can. I also decided that I was too old not to
predominantly use knobs so I gave my DX7 and TX7 to my nephew. He is
a whiz on them with the help of a fast computer and software. I
abandoned a profoundly great sound generation method because it made
me uncomfortable in a circumstance that discomfort wouldn't help me.

Couldn't replicate the Mellotron even with the programmer.

gw

On 6/7/07, jonesalley <jonesalley@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> There's one for sale around here that I'll end up buying if they finally
> drop the price a bit more. Always loved the sound of those things.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Pomeroy Ranch
> To: Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 9:38 PM
> Subject: RE: [Mellotronists] return of the clones
>
>
>
>
> The additive synthesis in the Synergy is an interesting opportunity for
> pushing the envelope – just think if these things had a decent
> Pentium/Motorola microprocessor instead of an archaic Toshiba Z80 chip…..
>
> Vance
>
> > I'm pretty sure that I never suggested the DX was a bad instrument.
>
> Not at all... Remember when I said that with digital synths, after 25
> to 40 years of digital music development that the best they can do is
> to make bad copies of great instruments that are no longer in
> production? I wanted to point out that the DX-7 is an exception to
> that. The DX-7 was a digital synth that involved wicked creative use
> of the technology, it wasn't trying to be a cheap copy of something
> it's not, and that sort of character, innovation and joyful
> exploration is rarely seen in digital synths.
>
>
>
>

Re: recorded music collections

2007-06-08 by dandc74

I did have access to an 80rpm 1/4" thick Edision disc but sadly, no
cylinders or shellacs yet(I think I may have seen of those years ago
in pretty sorry shape). Key word is 'yet'.

FS. Weller
M400SM #574


> What?!? - no single-sided Columbia shellac 78's or Edison
> cylinders??????
>

Re: [Mellotronists] Re: recorded music collections

2007-06-08 by gino wong

Jeff, I have a very good Micro Seiki boxed up. Why don't you just
come get that instead of buying a table. You know us old DJs keep
plenty of turntables in mothballs

g

On 6/8/07, jeffc@... <jeffc@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, 8 Jun 2007, ceccles_ca wrote:
>
> > --- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, "Pomeroy Ranch" <punchbowl4@...>
> > wrote:
> >
> > Wire-up all of that vinyl to your computer with the Stanton T.90(USB
> > or SPDIF):
> > http://reviews.digitaltrends.com/review4523_main22623.html
>
> the stantons are on ebay all the time.
>
> i am about to buy my first turntable in 30 years.
> the technics sl-220 i bought in high school won't maintain
> a constant speed. i even tried a new belt - not stable.
>
> so i'm going to grab a refurbished stanton direct drive
> for about $140. i'd love to get something better, but i
> just can't justify $400+ for something that won't get
> used that much.
>
> i've got about 1400 pieces of vinyl [not including the
> archive from the record label i worked at for 15 years.
> that would add another 500 pieces or so]. that includes
> a ton of 12" singles from the early-mid 80s. i probably
> have 30 12"ers by siouxsie and the banshees alone, plus
> another 30 by new order.
>
> i'm buying hte turntable so i can put some of the vinyl
> onto cd for records that have still not been issued on
> cd. lots of weird european electronica and prog.
>
> ...jeff [who still has over 500 laserdiscs - love em!]
>

Re: recorded music collections

2007-06-08 by john barrick

Gino, is that the one that looks like a flying saucer? I remember
seeing one of those in the late '70s that someone had mounted multiple
tonearms on...

john(who wanted a Dennon, but ended up with a technics)barrick


--- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, "gino wong" <wonggster@...> wrote:
>
> Jeff, I have a very good Micro Seiki boxed up. Why don't you just
> come get that instead of buying a table. You know us old DJs keep
> plenty of turntables in mothballs

Re: [Mellotronists] Re: recorded music collections

2007-06-08 by jeffc@netaxs.com

On Fri, 8 Jun 2007, gino wong wrote:

> Jeff, I have a very good Micro Seiki boxed up. Why don't you just
> come get that instead of buying a table. You know us old DJs keep
> plenty of turntables in mothballs
>
> g



SOLD!
awesome - thanks mr g!

i'll ring ya this weekend...

...jeff

Re: recorded music collections

2007-06-09 by ceccles_ca

--- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, tronbros@... wrote:
>
> I swear by my two Luxmans. Both old, both excellent.
>
> Martin
>

http://www.thevintageknob.org/LUXMAN/PD555/PD555.html
Lux made some great stuff in the early 80's.

Most linear tracking TT were crap. The first linear tracking TT was
built like a cast aluminium tank.
http://www.thevintageknob.org/TECHNICS/SL10/SL10.html
The SL-15 could be programmed like a CD player. Respectable sound.

Re: [Mellotronists] return of the clones

2007-06-09 by NormLeete@aol.com

In a message dated 08/06/2007 03:40:41 GMT Standard Time, punchbowl4@... writes:
The additive synthesis in the Synergy is an interesting opportunity for pushing the envelope
A cheap alternative is the K1(r) - basically four "layers", no filter, 200+ waveforms. You can also use AM between layers which covers the DX end of things for me.
Norm

Re: [Mellotronists] Re: recorded music collections

2007-06-09 by NormLeete@aol.com

In a message dated 08/06/2007 19:07:01 GMT Standard Time, tronbros@... writes:
I swear by my two Luxmans.
I also exclusively use a Luxman. Bought cheap in a flood damage sale - best turntable I've ever had...
Norm

Have I been kicked off?

2007-06-11 by Mark Wallis

Hi Don,

Just wondering if I've been kicked off the mellotronists mailing list. I
may indeed have made one or two unpopular comments and upheld some
less-than-purist points of view but would have appreciated some notification
if I actually have been remotely unsubscribed.

Yours,

Mark Stuart Wallis,

Tamworth, England.

_________________________________________________________________
The next generation of Hotmail is here! http://www.newhotmail.co.uk

Re: [Mellotronists] Have I been kicked off?

2007-06-11 by lsf5275@aol.com

In a message dated 6/11/2007 10:56:35 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, markstuartwallis@... writes:
Hi Don,

Just wondering if I've been kicked off the mellotronists mailing list. I
may indeed have made one or two unpopular comments and upheld some
less-than-purist points of view but would have appreciated some notification
if I actually have been remotely unsubscribed.

Yours,

Mark Stuart Wallis,

Tamworth, England.
Nope,
You have to do a lot more than that to be punted off the list. You're still with us.
Frank



See what's free at AOL.com.

Re: [Mellotronists] Have I been kicked off?

2007-06-11 by Mark Wallis

Jolly good. Most reassuring. ;-)

Hadn't seen any new posts for nearly a week, including my own. Hence the
question.

Best wishes to all,

MSW,

T,E.




>In a message dated 6/11/2007 10:56:35 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>markstuartwallis@... writes:
>
>Hi Don,
>
>Just wondering if I've been kicked off the mellotronists mailing list. I
>may indeed have made one or two unpopular comments and upheld some
>less-than-purist points of view but would have appreciated some
>notification
>if I actually have been remotely unsubscribed.
>
>Yours,
>
>Mark Stuart Wallis,
>
>Tamworth, England.
>
>Nope,
>
>You have to do a lot more than that to be punted off the list. You're still
>with us.
>
>Frank
>
>
>
>
>
>************************************** See what's free at
>http://www.aol.com

_________________________________________________________________
Could you be the guest MSN Movies presenter? Click Here to Audition
http://www.lightscameraaudition.co.uk

Re: [Mellotronists] Have I been kicked off?

2007-06-11 by Donald Tillman

> From: "Mark Wallis" <markstuartwallis@...>
> Sender: Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com
>
> Just wondering if I've been kicked off the mellotronists mailing
> list. I may indeed have made one or two unpopular comments and
> upheld some less-than-purist points of view but would have
> appreciated some notification if I actually have been remotely
> unsubscribed.

Dude, not even slightly.

(Understand that I am strongly opposed to limiting the expression of
ideas, and two, I'm way too busy to do that. You have to do something
like make nasty threats to get kicked off this list.)

Yahoo Groups has its quirks as an email list server, and occasionally
you'll see the effects of that. Yahoo Groups may drop you after so
many undeliverable messages, for instance.

-- Don

--
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California
don@...
http://www.till.com

Re: Have I been kicked off?

2007-06-11 by Bernie

Mark, there have been posts every day for the last week. Do you
normally receive them via email?

Bernie


--- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Wallis"
<markstuartwallis@...> wrote:
>
> Jolly good. Most reassuring. ;-)
>
> Hadn't seen any new posts for nearly a week, including my own.
Hence the
> question.
>
> Best wishes to all,
>
> MSW,
>
> T,E.
>
>
>
>
> >In a message dated 6/11/2007 10:56:35 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> >markstuartwallis@... writes:
> >
> >Hi Don,
> >
> >Just wondering if I've been kicked off the mellotronists mailing
list. I
> >may indeed have made one or two unpopular comments and upheld some
> >less-than-purist points of view but would have appreciated some
> >notification
> >if I actually have been remotely unsubscribed.
> >
> >Yours,
> >
> >Mark Stuart Wallis,
> >
> >Tamworth, England.
> >
> >Nope,
> >
> >You have to do a lot more than that to be punted off the list.
You're still
> >with us.
> >
> >Frank
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >************************************** See what's free at
> >http://www.aol.com
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Could you be the guest MSN Movies presenter? Click Here to
Audition
> http://www.lightscameraaudition.co.uk
>

RE: [Mellotronists] Re: Have I been kicked off?

2007-06-11 by Mark Wallis

Hi guys. It would appear that all emails have been bouncing at this
address.. Not sure why but it appears to be all sorted out now.

At least I wasn't waiting on anything specific.

For future reference, should anybody ever have difficulty getting in touch I
can also be contacted via:

mabelsyrup@...
miceinmymellotron@...

and www.MySpace.com/markstuartwallis









>From: "Bernie" <kornowicz@...>
>To: Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [Mellotronists] Re: Have I been kicked off?
>Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 16:14:47 -0000
>
>Mark, there have been posts every day for the last week. Do you
>normally receive them via email?
>
>Bernie
>
>
>--- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Wallis"
><markstuartwallis@...> wrote:
> >
> > Jolly good. Most reassuring. ;-)
> >
> > Hadn't seen any new posts for nearly a week, including my own.
>Hence the
> > question.
> >
> > Best wishes to all,
> >
> > MSW,
> >
> > T,E.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >In a message dated 6/11/2007 10:56:35 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> > >markstuartwallis@... writes:
> > >
> > >Hi Don,
> > >
> > >Just wondering if I've been kicked off the mellotronists mailing
>list. I
> > >may indeed have made one or two unpopular comments and upheld some
> > >less-than-purist points of view but would have appreciated some
> > >notification
> > >if I actually have been remotely unsubscribed.
> > >
> > >Yours,
> > >
> > >Mark Stuart Wallis,
> > >
> > >Tamworth, England.
> > >
> > >Nope,
> > >
> > >You have to do a lot more than that to be punted off the list.
>You're still
> > >with us.
> > >
> > >Frank
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >************************************** See what's free at
> > >http://www.aol.com
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Could you be the guest MSN Movies presenter? Click Here to
>Audition
> > http://www.lightscameraaudition.co.uk
> >
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Win tickets to the sold out Live Earth concert! http://liveearth.uk.msn.com

Re: Have I been kicked off?

2007-06-11 by ceccles_ca

--- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, Mike Dickson <mike.dickson@...>
wrote:
>
> Mark Wallis wrote:
> > Just wondering if I've been kicked off the mellotronists mailing
list.
> There's that voice again...

Can we vote Mic Dinkson off the island?

Re: [Mellotronists] Have I been kicked off?

2007-06-11 by jonesalley

After all, both Frank MkII and I are still allowed to post...


> (Understand that I am strongly opposed to limiting the expression of
> ideas, and two, I'm way too busy to do that. You have to do something
> like make nasty threats to get kicked off this list.)
>

Re: Have I been kicked off?

2007-06-11 by leetronhead

--- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Wallis"
<markstuartwallis@...> wrote:
>
> Jolly good. Most reassuring. ;-)
>
> Hadn't seen any new posts for nearly a week, including my own.
Hence the
> question.
>
> Best wishes to all,
>
> MSW,
>
> T,E.
>
>
>
>
> >In a message dated 6/11/2007 10:56:35 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> >markstuartwallis@... writes:
> >
> >Hi Don,
> >
> >Just wondering if I've been kicked off the mellotronists mailing
list. I
> >may indeed have made one or two unpopular comments and upheld some
> >less-than-purist points of view but would have appreciated some
> >notification
> >if I actually have been remotely unsubscribed.
> >
> >Yours,
> >
> >Mark Stuart Wallis,
> >
> >Tamworth, England.
> >
> >Nope,
> >
> >You have to do a lot more than that to be punted off the list.
You're still
> >with us.
> >
> >Frank
> >
> >HEY! Everyone knows I was the shooter on the grassy knoll, and I
wasn't booted from the list.
> >
> >
> >
> >************************************** See what's free at
> >http://www.aol.com
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Could you be the guest MSN Movies presenter? Click Here to Audition
> http://www.lightscameraaudition.co.uk
>

Re: recorded music collections

2007-06-11 by ceccles_ca

--- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, Colin Crawford
<g-colin.crawford@...> wrote:
>
> Martinge!
>
> Do you have two of *That particular*
> http://www.thevintageknob.org/LUXMAN/PD555/PD555.html
> model of Luxman?
>
> Respec' man!!

I worked in retail audio and sold hundreds of Luxman and Denon TT's.
I only sold one of those Lux vacuum suckers (PD 300). When it sucked
properly, it was great. It often had trouble maintaining the vacuum
seal for 20 minutes. (and that's when it was new).

Re: [Mellotronists] Re: recorded music collections

2007-06-11 by Colin Crawford

On 11 Jun 2007, at 20:20, ceccles_ca wrote:

When it sucked
> properly, it was great. It often had trouble maintaining the vacuum
> seal for 20 minutes. (and that's when it was new).

Oooh, Matron!

Cx

Re: [Mellotronists] Re: recorded music collections

2007-06-11 by lsf5275@aol.com

In a message dated 6/11/2007 3:23:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ecclesreinson@... writes:
I worked in retail audio and sold hundreds of Luxman and Denon TT's.
I only sold one of those Lux vacuum suckers (PD 300). When it sucked
properly, it was great. It often had trouble maintaining the vacuum
seal for 20 minutes. (and that's when it was new).
What if most of one's record collection is a bit warped?



See what's free at AOL.com.

Re: [Mellotronists] Re: recorded music collections

2007-06-11 by Mark Wallis

Hi all.

My first record player was the family's old G.E.C. 4-speed unit. This
venerable beast featured rubber tyres in it's drive mechanism and these were
well worn. The net effect was that 33 1/3 became more like 38 rpm.
Consequently many of my records seemed much groovier and more exciting than
they actually were. The same things played on different machines often
lacked some elusive quality..

I loved the mechanical clunkiness of the thing and particularly the
'tiddley-pom' noise that it made at the end of a side. Even the rumble lurks
in my sonic memorybank.

It now lurks in an attic having been lent to a mate of my Dad. I think
it's time I rescued it.

Ahh, memories.

Love and Scones,

msw

_________________________________________________________________
Win tickets to the sold out Live Earth concert! http://liveearth.uk.msn.com

Re: [Mellotronists] Re: recorded music collections

2007-06-11 by Mark Wallis

Forgot this bit!

I only recently realised that the speed issues must have set me back YEARS
when it came to trying to develop an accurate sense of pitch. And me a
Mellotron/Theremin player..


>From: "Mark Wallis" <markstuartwallis@...>
>To: Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Mellotronists] Re: recorded music collections
>Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 20:40:22 +0000
>
>Hi all.
>
> My first record player was the family's old G.E.C. 4-speed unit. This
>venerable beast featured rubber tyres in it's drive mechanism and these
>were
>well worn. The net effect was that 33 1/3 became more like 38 rpm.
>Consequently many of my records seemed much groovier and more exciting than
>they actually were. The same things played on different machines often
>lacked some elusive quality..
>
> I loved the mechanical clunkiness of the thing and particularly the
>'tiddley-pom' noise that it made at the end of a side. Even the rumble
>lurks
>in my sonic memorybank.
>
> It now lurks in an attic having been lent to a mate of my Dad. I think
>it's time I rescued it.
>
>Ahh, memories.
>
>Love and Scones,
>
>msw
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Win tickets to the sold out Live Earth concert!
>http://liveearth.uk.msn.com
>

_________________________________________________________________
Txt a lot? Get Messenger FREE on your mobile.
https://livemessenger.mobile.uk.msn.com/

Re: recorded music collections

2007-06-11 by ceccles_ca

--- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, lsf5275@... wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 6/11/2007 3:23:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> ecclesreinson@... writes:
>
> I worked in retail audio and sold hundreds of Luxman and Denon TT's.
> I only sold one of those Lux vacuum suckers (PD 300). When it sucked
> properly, it was great. It often had trouble maintaining the vacuum
> seal for 20 minutes. (and that's when it was new).
>
>
>
>
> What if most of one's record collection is a bit warped?

Physically warped or content warped? (ha)
The vacuum stabilizer would flatten out warped LP's nicely when the
disc was high in the center. Of course if side one is 'center high',
the flip side will be edge high. The Luxman would flatten edge high
warps, but it was a bit tricky. (Hold down the edge with 2 fingers
and two thumbs). If we had a LP that wouldn't maintain vacuum, a
little liquid record cleaner at the label and outer edge would always
work. (like licking a suction-cup!)

A bit of a pain, but the benefit was clearly audible.

Clay

Re: [Mellotronists] Re: recorded music collections

2007-06-11 by Mike Dickson

ceccles_ca wrote:
>
> The vacuum stabilizer would flatten out warped LP's nicely when the
> disc was high in the center. Of course if side one is 'center high',
> the flip side will be edge high. The Luxman would flatten edge high
> warps, but it was a bit tricky. (Hold down the edge with 2 fingers
> and two thumbs). If we had a LP that wouldn't maintain vacuum, a
> little liquid record cleaner at the label and outer edge would always
> work. (like licking a suction-cup!)
>
> A bit of a pain, but the benefit was clearly audible.
I think I would just *go to the shops to buy it again*. :-)

--

Mike Dickson (tron@...) M400 #996
The Official Cynic of Streetly Electronics
Streetly Sample Library http://www.blackcat.demon.co.uk/tron/

Re: recorded music collections

2007-06-12 by ceccles_ca

--- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, Mike Dickson <mike.dickson@...>
wrote:
>
> ceccles_ca wrote:
> > A bit of a pain, but the benefit was clearly audible.
> I think I would just *go to the shops to buy it again*. :-)

Hey evil-gas-man... If you are going to the shops, pick-up a case of
Beano, will you please?

Post your Beano success story here:
http://www.beanogas.com/TellYourStory.aspx
Beano questions?
http://www.beanogas.com/BeanoFAQs.aspx

:-)