Mellotronists

Hi John,

Wow! Ed and Miriam Cohen. Now I remember (though vaguely)! They used 
to book the band I was playing with at the time, Charisma, although 
they didn't manage us. I also recognize the name Ken Nessing. This 
is a shrinking world! I didn't play keyboards; I played bass guitar 
(ask Fritz about those things). Our keyboardist was Mike Reynolds. 
His keyboard setup was a little smaller than yours; merely a 
B3/Leslie 122, a Univox Mini-Korg (I recently picked one up on 
eBay), an RMI electric piano and an M400S Mellotron, #500, which is 
now sitting about 3 feet away from me. It was one of those white 
jobs but now looks like this, thanks to Jerry Korb, who did an 
incredible restoration of it last year:

http://www.kleonard.com/mellotron/mpsum05/500-4.htm

I look forward to seeing the photo of you and your keyboard setup 
from Central Connecticut State Teachers College. That is the 
college, isn't it?

Bernie


--- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, "jaybe52000" <jaybe52000@...> 
wrote:
>
> Hey Bernie,
> 
> Whipser did have many incarnations before I joined the band in 
1976.  
> And you are correct in that Ed and his now ex wife Miriam Cohen 
were managing several 
> bands in that area.
> 
> Surprise was one of the bands they managed in addition to Whisper.
> 
> However, what you may be thinking of is that the "version"of 
Whisper I was in, Ken 
> Nessing, our frontman/Lead Singer was in the band Surprise, before 
joining us in whipser.
> 
> I've got a great overhead shot of me and my keyboard set up at a 
college in New Britian, 
> CT I beleive it was.  I need to get that scanned so I can put it 
up on the photos section of 
> this and a few other sites that have asked to see what the set up 
back then looked like.
> 
> I still can't believe we moved all that stuff ourselves back then 
without a road crew! 
> Arrgghh.
> 
> Did we know each other back then Bernie?  We you also playing 
Mellotron back then in 
> your bands from that area?  What was the name of the band you were 
in?
> 
> John
> 
> --- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, "Bernie" <kornowicz@> wrote:
> >
> > Very interesting story! Ed Cohen...I remember that name from my 
> > distant past. I think he used to book jobs for one of the bands 
I 
> > played in. Was "Whisper" also "Surprise" from Meriden in another 
> > incarnation?
> > 
> > Bernie
> > 
> > --- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, "jaybe52000" <jaybe52000@> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, "charel196" <charel196@> 
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I haven't heard those Birotron samples on M-Tron but always 
> > thought the instrument 
> > > was 
> > > > hard to hear on record (see Wakeman's CRIMINAL RECORD & Yes' 
> > TORMATO) very bass-
> > > ey 
> > > > and distant sounding. I heard that Biro used 2 Mellotrons to 
> > make the 8 track tapes, so 
> > > > you'd think that this potentially might've sounded good.
> > > >  I assume one could create their own Birotron sounds by 
looping 
> > Mellotron samples then 
> > > > lowering the fidelity (LP filter)
> > > >
> > > 
> > > 
> > > (I've posted this reply once already but I have not seen it 
show 
> > up in the group messages, 
> > > so please forgive me if it does in fact show up twice.)
> > > 
> > > 
> > > I didn't know there were any Birotron samples on the M-Tron!  
Let 
> > alone any Birotron 
> > > samples anywere to be had in any format.
> > > 
> > > I didn't know there were any Birotron samples on the M-Tron!
> > > 
> > > Here's my little personal story about my "brush" with the 
Birotron.
> > > 
> > > (Again, I'm 52 years old now and I'll put a "senior moment" 
> > disclaimer here at the 
> > > beginning just in case anyone here thinks/knows I've got some 
of 
> > this wrong, but this is 
> > > my recollection of the events at that time when I was around 
all 
> > this)
> > > 
> > > In 1976 I was playing at the Holiday Inn of Bridgeport, CT in 
the 
> > lounge with a "Show Band" 
> > > that played covers of pop music with a Husband and Wife team 
as 
> > the leaders and Front 
> > > persons/Vocalists of the band. 
> > > 
> > >  I came down to the club one afternoon to turn on all my 
keyboards 
> > and synths to let them 
> > > "warm up" before rehearsal that day.  (My live setup at that 
time 
> > consisted of my Mellotron 
> > > M400 [Brass/String Section/8-Choir tapes], Hammond B3/Leslie 
145, 
> > Polyfusion Modular 
> > > synthesizer (serial number 2), Moog Modular Synthesizer 12, 
> > Minimoog, ARP String 
> > > Ensemble, Hohner Clavinet D6, RMI Electra-Piano and 
Harpsichord 
> > 368 and a Fender 
> > > Rhodes 73 Electric Piano.)
> > > 
> > > When I went to turn on the Mellotron there was a little green 
> > business card on the 
> > > keyboard of my tron, it said "Ed Cohen Sales-Birotronics, a 
div of 
> > Rick Wakeman 
> > > Industries".
> > > 
> > > I was dumbfounded since I had just read in Keyboard Magazine 
that 
> > same week, that there 
> > > was this "new" Mellotron type keyboard that had tape loops and 
> > could hold notes longer 
> > > than 8 seconds etc.  What an odd coincidence I thought.  I 
just 
> > read about this thing and 
> > > now there's a business card for this guy involved with it 
sitting 
> > on my Mellotron.
> > > 
> > > Apparently Ed Cohen also managed a band named Whisper that did 
> > covers of Yes, Genesis 
> > > and many of the prog artists of the era, as well as original 
music 
> > in the same progressive 
> > > vein.  When he saw my large setup for live performance, he 
thought 
> > he'd try to get me to 
> > > audition for Whisper since they needed a keyboard/synth guy 
and I 
> > obviously had the right 
> > > tools for the job.
> > > 
> > > So, I called the phone number and spoke to Ed Cohen.  He told 
me 
> > that "he was the 
> > > manager of the Prog Rock band named "Whisper" which was based 
in 
> > New Haven, CT and 
> > > was also the manager of a band with a keyboard guy named David 
> > Biro...you might have 
> > > heard of him".  "He invented what was supposed to be the much 
> > improved Mellotron and 
> > > he named it the "Birotron""
> > > 
> > > Ed then told me the following story about the Birotron....
> > > 
> > > Instead of using tapes that had a fixed length and starting 
point 
> > like the Mellotron, he 
> > > decided to use the old "8-Track" cartridges so that the sounds 
> > could loop indefinitely 
> > > unlike the Mellotron where you only have about 7-8 seconds of 
> > sound playing then you 
> > > have to release the key on the keyboard so the return springs 
on 
> > the tape frame could pull 
> > > the tape back to it's starting point.  
> > > 
> > > While he did get around the 7-second limitation, he introduced 
a 
> > new problem.  Because 
> > > the Mellotron (and Chamberlin..the original tape replay 
keyboard 
> > the Mellotron idea was 
> > > er.."borrowed" from…another story that I'm sure you all know 
on 
> > this forum...) was NOT a 
> > > continuous loop, it could really play ANY sound because the 
tape 
> > ALWAYS starts at the 
> > > exact same starting point.  Therefore, percussion sounds like 
the 
> > tubular bells, sound 
> > > effects, like those that I have currently in my Mellotron Mark 
V, 
> > as well as the other sounds 
> > > in the Mellotron library like drums, vibes, guitar strums etc. 
> > would ALWAYS give you that 
> > > percussive "hit" at the beginning of the sound which is why 
the 
> > sounded so realistic...the 
> > > Mellotron let you hear the hit of the mallet on every note, or 
the 
> > articulation of the choir 
> > > voices "Ahh" at the beginning of the notes.
> > >  
> > > Ed went on to say that basically "David Biro was a musician 
that 
> > did not have the money to 
> > > afford his own Mellotron, so he went to an auto junk yard, 
bought 
> > 37 8 Track car tape 
> > > players, borrowed a friends Mellotron (excellent player-Jeff 
> > Batter, I don't know about 
> > > anyone else's Mellotron being recorded but it's possible), 
> > recorded all the notes/tracks of 
> > > the sounds in the Mellotron onto 8 Track tape cartridges and 
then 
> > used an old piano 
> > > keyboard he hollowed out, put switches on the keys that would 
then 
> > trigger each of the 
> > > different 8 track car tape decks to play the correct pitch.  
Crazy 
> > huh?"
> > >  
> > > Well the story goes like this.  Ed Cohen, brought this 
monstrosity 
> > (I guess it was a huge 
> > > thing with all the 8 tack car decks in some kind of box) to a 
Yes 
> > concert in New Haven, got 
> > > Rick Wakeman to take a look at it, and convinced Wakeman to 
invest 
> > in David Biro's 
> > > "invention" and try to market and sell it as the "better 
> > mousetrap" advanced version of the 
> > > Mellotron.
> > >  
> > > As I said earlier, he did get the sounds to play indefinitely, 
but 
> > the catch was, because you 
> > > never knew where the tape was playing from since the 8 track 
> > cartridges were looped, you 
> > > did not have that perfect attack of every possible type of 
sound 
> > that the Mellotron had.  
> > > They did add a very limited Envelope Generator that had Attack 
and 
> > Decay, so you did 
> > > have that, which was a good idea since on the Mellotron you 
really 
> > have to learn how to 
> > > use your volume pedal to get smooth fades in and out and make 
it 
> > sound musical 
> > > (Wakeman and Tony Banks were a few of the masters of that 
> > technique).
> > >  
> > > So while it did give you a perceived attack, it was never 
really 
> > as good as the Mellotron's 
> > > (IMHO) ability to really give you the exact attack of ANY 
sound.  
> > The Birotron did OK on 
> > > stuff like strings, cello (still missing that initial bite, 
there 
> > too really) but I thought the 
> > > attack of the Flute missing and the voices singing that 
> > first "Ahh" really diminished the 
> > > realism of the great way the Mellotron flutes and vocals sound.
> > >  
> > > There were lots of mechanical problems with getting 8 track 
tapes 
> > to run consistent 
> > > speeds when you had 37 of them running together, there were 
pitch 
> > problems I relating to 
> > > I believe individual capstans (not totally sure about that but 
I 
> > remember something along 
> > > that line) and the project never really got off the ground.
> > > I know there were other business problems as well, (I heard 
rumors 
> > that it might have had 
> > > to do with Wakeman's divorce, but I honestly don't know any 
> > details about that)  
> > > 
> > > I did see and hear Rick Wakeman use three or four Birotrons 
> > onstage in concert once and I 
> > > thought they sounded terrible, at least what I could hear of 
them 
> > at all. Just like the 
> > > previous poster "charel196" mentioned, I also thought it 
> > sounded "distant" and very 
> > > "muddy".  I didn't think they came anywhere near sounding full 
and 
> > rich like the Mellotron 
> > > did.  I wished he'd had Mellotrons at that show.
> > >  
> > > Many years later I told this story to David Kean, (who I had 
> > contacted when I was having 
> > > problems with my Mellotron Mark V.  I finally met David Kean 
when 
> > I worked for E-mu 
> > > Systems (Emu had a "after trade show" party at Dave Kean's 
studio 
> > when it was in North 
> > > Hollywood, CA one year) and he had expressed an interest in 
> > getting his hands on a 
> > > Birotron.  I told him that I did at one time have David Biro's 
> > phone number so I looked and 
> > > found a very old phone book of mine that had David Biro's 
Mom's 
> > home phone number in 
> > > CT.  At the time David Biro still lived there with his Mom.  
Turns 
> > out that Dave Biro did 
> > > have a Birotron still in his possession.  Dave Kean then 
called 
> > and thanked me.  He told me 
> > > later that he bought David Biro's personal Birotron from him. 
Not 
> > sure what he paid for it.
> > > 
> > > Ironically, I heard from Ed Cohen over the past year and he 
> > mentioned that Dave Biro is 
> > > living in Florida last he heard. 
> > > Thru my relationship with Ed Cohen I eventually got to meet 
Rick 
> > Wakeman and Keith 
> > > Emerson.  
> > > I ended up demonstrating the Polyfusion Modular Synthesizers 
to 
> > both of them. Keith 
> > > Emerson basically said, "he's never going to use anything 
other 
> > than Moog synths, due the 
> > > relationship he had with Bob Moog. We took my entire 
Polyfusion 
> > Synth in multiple 
> > > cabinets to Rick Wakeman's hotel room in New York, and he 
loved it 
> > so much he ordered a 
> > > larger system based on what was in my personal system.
> > > The problem was that Rick never paid for or took delivery of 
the 
> > system after they custom 
> > > built it for him.  Talk about feeling stupid to the owners of 
> > Polyfusion.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Sorry for the length of the post and the off topics bit at the 
end 
> > regarding synthesizers
> > > 
> > > John
> > >
> >
>