Mellotronists

Hi John,

Wow! Ed and Miriam Cohen. Now I remember (though vaguely)! They used
to book the band I was playing with at the time, Charisma, although
they didn't manage us. I also recognize the name Ken Nessing. This
is a shrinking world! I didn't play keyboards; I played bass guitar
(ask Fritz about those things). Our keyboardist was Mike Reynolds.
His keyboard setup was a little smaller than yours; merely a
B3/Leslie 122, a Univox Mini-Korg (I recently picked one up on
eBay), an RMI electric piano and an M400S Mellotron, #500, which is
now sitting about 3 feet away from me. It was one of those white
jobs but now looks like this, thanks to Jerry Korb, who did an
incredible restoration of it last year:

http://www.kleonard.com/mellotron/mpsum05/500-4.htm

I look forward to seeing the photo of you and your keyboard setup
from Central Connecticut State Teachers College. That is the
college, isn't it?

Bernie


--- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, "jaybe52000" <jaybe52000@...>
wrote:

>
> Hey Bernie,
>
> Whipser did have many incarnations before I joined the band in

1976.

> And you are correct in that Ed and his now ex wife Miriam Cohen

were managing several

> bands in that area.
>
> Surprise was one of the bands they managed in addition to Whisper.
>
> However, what you may be thinking of is that the "version"of

Whisper I was in, Ken

> Nessing, our frontman/Lead Singer was in the band Surprise, before

joining us in whipser.

>
> I've got a great overhead shot of me and my keyboard set up at a

college in New Britian,

> CT I beleive it was. I need to get that scanned so I can put it

up on the photos section of

> this and a few other sites that have asked to see what the set up

back then looked like.

>
> I still can't believe we moved all that stuff ourselves back then

without a road crew!

> Arrgghh.
>
> Did we know each other back then Bernie? We you also playing

Mellotron back then in

> your bands from that area? What was the name of the band you were

in?

>
> John
>
> --- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, "Bernie" <kornowicz@> wrote:
> >
> > Very interesting story! Ed Cohen...I remember that name from my
> > distant past. I think he used to book jobs for one of the bands

I

> > played in. Was "Whisper" also "Surprise" from Meriden in another
> > incarnation?
> >
> > Bernie
> >
> > --- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, "jaybe52000" <jaybe52000@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, "charel196" <charel196@>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I haven't heard those Birotron samples on M-Tron but always
> > thought the instrument
> > > was
> > > > hard to hear on record (see Wakeman's CRIMINAL RECORD & Yes'
> > TORMATO) very bass-
> > > ey
> > > > and distant sounding. I heard that Biro used 2 Mellotrons to
> > make the 8 track tapes, so
> > > > you'd think that this potentially might've sounded good.
> > > > I assume one could create their own Birotron sounds by

looping

> > Mellotron samples then
> > > > lowering the fidelity (LP filter)
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > (I've posted this reply once already but I have not seen it

show

> > up in the group messages,
> > > so please forgive me if it does in fact show up twice.)
> > >
> > >
> > > I didn't know there were any Birotron samples on the M-Tron!

Let

> > alone any Birotron
> > > samples anywere to be had in any format.
> > >
> > > I didn't know there were any Birotron samples on the M-Tron!
> > >
> > > Here's my little personal story about my "brush" with the

Birotron.

> > >
> > > (Again, I'm 52 years old now and I'll put a "senior moment"
> > disclaimer here at the
> > > beginning just in case anyone here thinks/knows I've got some

of

> > this wrong, but this is
> > > my recollection of the events at that time when I was around

all

> > this)
> > >
> > > In 1976 I was playing at the Holiday Inn of Bridgeport, CT in

the

> > lounge with a "Show Band"
> > > that played covers of pop music with a Husband and Wife team

as

> > the leaders and Front
> > > persons/Vocalists of the band.
> > >
> > > I came down to the club one afternoon to turn on all my

keyboards

> > and synths to let them
> > > "warm up" before rehearsal that day. (My live setup at that

time

> > consisted of my Mellotron
> > > M400 [Brass/String Section/8-Choir tapes], Hammond B3/Leslie

145,

> > Polyfusion Modular
> > > synthesizer (serial number 2), Moog Modular Synthesizer 12,
> > Minimoog, ARP String
> > > Ensemble, Hohner Clavinet D6, RMI Electra-Piano and

Harpsichord

> > 368 and a Fender
> > > Rhodes 73 Electric Piano.)
> > >
> > > When I went to turn on the Mellotron there was a little green
> > business card on the
> > > keyboard of my tron, it said "Ed Cohen Sales-Birotronics, a

div of

> > Rick Wakeman
> > > Industries".
> > >
> > > I was dumbfounded since I had just read in Keyboard Magazine

that

> > same week, that there
> > > was this "new" Mellotron type keyboard that had tape loops and
> > could hold notes longer
> > > than 8 seconds etc. What an odd coincidence I thought. I

just

> > read about this thing and
> > > now there's a business card for this guy involved with it

sitting

> > on my Mellotron.
> > >
> > > Apparently Ed Cohen also managed a band named Whisper that did
> > covers of Yes, Genesis
> > > and many of the prog artists of the era, as well as original

music

> > in the same progressive
> > > vein. When he saw my large setup for live performance, he

thought

> > he'd try to get me to
> > > audition for Whisper since they needed a keyboard/synth guy

and I

> > obviously had the right
> > > tools for the job.
> > >
> > > So, I called the phone number and spoke to Ed Cohen. He told

me

> > that "he was the
> > > manager of the Prog Rock band named "Whisper" which was based

in

> > New Haven, CT and
> > > was also the manager of a band with a keyboard guy named David
> > Biro...you might have
> > > heard of him". "He invented what was supposed to be the much
> > improved Mellotron and
> > > he named it the "Birotron""
> > >
> > > Ed then told me the following story about the Birotron....
> > >
> > > Instead of using tapes that had a fixed length and starting

point

> > like the Mellotron, he
> > > decided to use the old "8-Track" cartridges so that the sounds
> > could loop indefinitely
> > > unlike the Mellotron where you only have about 7-8 seconds of
> > sound playing then you
> > > have to release the key on the keyboard so the return springs

on

> > the tape frame could pull
> > > the tape back to it's starting point.
> > >
> > > While he did get around the 7-second limitation, he introduced

a

> > new problem. Because
> > > the Mellotron (and Chamberlin..the original tape replay

keyboard

> > the Mellotron idea was
> > > er.."borrowed" from…another story that I'm sure you all know

on

> > this forum...) was NOT a
> > > continuous loop, it could really play ANY sound because the

tape

> > ALWAYS starts at the
> > > exact same starting point. Therefore, percussion sounds like

the

> > tubular bells, sound
> > > effects, like those that I have currently in my Mellotron Mark

V,

> > as well as the other sounds
> > > in the Mellotron library like drums, vibes, guitar strums etc.
> > would ALWAYS give you that
> > > percussive "hit" at the beginning of the sound which is why

the

> > sounded so realistic...the
> > > Mellotron let you hear the hit of the mallet on every note, or

the

> > articulation of the choir
> > > voices "Ahh" at the beginning of the notes.
> > >
> > > Ed went on to say that basically "David Biro was a musician

that

> > did not have the money to
> > > afford his own Mellotron, so he went to an auto junk yard,

bought

> > 37 8 Track car tape
> > > players, borrowed a friends Mellotron (excellent player-Jeff
> > Batter, I don't know about
> > > anyone else's Mellotron being recorded but it's possible),
> > recorded all the notes/tracks of
> > > the sounds in the Mellotron onto 8 Track tape cartridges and

then

> > used an old piano
> > > keyboard he hollowed out, put switches on the keys that would

then

> > trigger each of the
> > > different 8 track car tape decks to play the correct pitch.

Crazy

> > huh?"
> > >
> > > Well the story goes like this. Ed Cohen, brought this

monstrosity

> > (I guess it was a huge
> > > thing with all the 8 tack car decks in some kind of box) to a

Yes

> > concert in New Haven, got
> > > Rick Wakeman to take a look at it, and convinced Wakeman to

invest

> > in David Biro's
> > > "invention" and try to market and sell it as the "better
> > mousetrap" advanced version of the
> > > Mellotron.
> > >
> > > As I said earlier, he did get the sounds to play indefinitely,

but

> > the catch was, because you
> > > never knew where the tape was playing from since the 8 track
> > cartridges were looped, you
> > > did not have that perfect attack of every possible type of

sound

> > that the Mellotron had.
> > > They did add a very limited Envelope Generator that had Attack

and

> > Decay, so you did
> > > have that, which was a good idea since on the Mellotron you

really

> > have to learn how to
> > > use your volume pedal to get smooth fades in and out and make

it

> > sound musical
> > > (Wakeman and Tony Banks were a few of the masters of that
> > technique).
> > >
> > > So while it did give you a perceived attack, it was never

really

> > as good as the Mellotron's
> > > (IMHO) ability to really give you the exact attack of ANY

sound.

> > The Birotron did OK on
> > > stuff like strings, cello (still missing that initial bite,

there

> > too really) but I thought the
> > > attack of the Flute missing and the voices singing that
> > first "Ahh" really diminished the
> > > realism of the great way the Mellotron flutes and vocals sound.
> > >
> > > There were lots of mechanical problems with getting 8 track

tapes

> > to run consistent
> > > speeds when you had 37 of them running together, there were

pitch

> > problems I relating to
> > > I believe individual capstans (not totally sure about that but

I

> > remember something along
> > > that line) and the project never really got off the ground.
> > > I know there were other business problems as well, (I heard

rumors

> > that it might have had
> > > to do with Wakeman's divorce, but I honestly don't know any
> > details about that)
> > >
> > > I did see and hear Rick Wakeman use three or four Birotrons
> > onstage in concert once and I
> > > thought they sounded terrible, at least what I could hear of

them

> > at all. Just like the
> > > previous poster "charel196" mentioned, I also thought it
> > sounded "distant" and very
> > > "muddy". I didn't think they came anywhere near sounding full

and

> > rich like the Mellotron
> > > did. I wished he'd had Mellotrons at that show.
> > >
> > > Many years later I told this story to David Kean, (who I had
> > contacted when I was having
> > > problems with my Mellotron Mark V. I finally met David Kean

when

> > I worked for E-mu
> > > Systems (Emu had a "after trade show" party at Dave Kean's

studio

> > when it was in North
> > > Hollywood, CA one year) and he had expressed an interest in
> > getting his hands on a
> > > Birotron. I told him that I did at one time have David Biro's
> > phone number so I looked and
> > > found a very old phone book of mine that had David Biro's

Mom's

> > home phone number in
> > > CT. At the time David Biro still lived there with his Mom.

Turns

> > out that Dave Biro did
> > > have a Birotron still in his possession. Dave Kean then

called

> > and thanked me. He told me
> > > later that he bought David Biro's personal Birotron from him.

Not

> > sure what he paid for it.
> > >
> > > Ironically, I heard from Ed Cohen over the past year and he
> > mentioned that Dave Biro is
> > > living in Florida last he heard.
> > > Thru my relationship with Ed Cohen I eventually got to meet

Rick

> > Wakeman and Keith
> > > Emerson.
> > > I ended up demonstrating the Polyfusion Modular Synthesizers

to

> > both of them. Keith
> > > Emerson basically said, "he's never going to use anything

other

> > than Moog synths, due the
> > > relationship he had with Bob Moog. We took my entire

Polyfusion

> > Synth in multiple
> > > cabinets to Rick Wakeman's hotel room in New York, and he

loved it

> > so much he ordered a
> > > larger system based on what was in my personal system.
> > > The problem was that Rick never paid for or took delivery of

the

> > system after they custom
> > > built it for him. Talk about feeling stupid to the owners of
> > Polyfusion.
> > >
> > >
> > > Sorry for the length of the post and the off topics bit at the

end

> > regarding synthesizers
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> >
>