Mellotronists

I suppose another way of looking at the question of samples is to
ignore whether they sound like a mellotron, and ask do you like the
sounds they make?

After all I don't like the mellotron because it sounds like the
instrument on the tape, it doesn't and I would be disappointed if it
did.  But I just love the sound it makes.

I have the mtron samples, I was disappointed in the strings, I still
can't sound like Woolly Wolstenholme. However I did like the choir,
cello and clarinet.

Mark


--- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, tron@... wrote:
>
> I've had the opportunity to play about with the GMedia M-Tron VST and
> have to say that I'm not very impressed. Forget about anything to do
> with 'purism' here; the real problem is just how *shit* some of it
> sounds.
> 
> Most of the voices are very poorly recorded indeed. I've no idea whence
> these recordings were sourced, but an awful lot of them are very noisy -
> far noisier than the real thing. In fact the only time I've heard
> noisier Mellotrons is when they are in Streetly prior to being fixed or
> serviced. Was this noise added for effect or was the machine or tapes
> from which these recordings were made defective in some way?
> 
> I'd single the solo flute out for special attention here. Given the fact
> that the publicise this VST as a way of playing *those classic sounds*
> without the need for *cumbersome machines and errant 1960s technology*,
> you'd think that they would get on of the most famous voices spot-on.
> The trouble is that there is popping all over the middle range of the
> voice. I even went to the bother of dragging frame #1 out of the closet
> and doing an A/B test. No pops on the tapes, but popping all over the
> VST. The conclusion is therefore that either they added this or the
> tapes are buggered. Discuss.
> 
> On the subject of the flute, there is a good clue here that things are
> not all they seem anyway. As far as I know (I'm guessing to some extent
> here and working only on what I have heard) GMedia claim that this is a
> faithful recording of a real Mellotron, note-for-note, warts and all,
> etc. Hmmm. I disagree. Walking down from the top F, the most distinctive
> note on the solo flute is that 'Trio note' on the top D. You know - it
> sounds like a penny whistle giving a good shriek. It ain't there on the
> M-Tron. Neither is the second top F either - the one that 'warbles' a
> bit to itself. But if it's a verbatim account of the voice, why are they
> not there? Maybe they interpolate some of the samples. Maybe they didn't
> like the sound of those notes and tuned the ones below them up by a
> semitone. Whatever happened, it sure isn't a faithful recording of the
> whole sound.
> 
> And something else was odd about that sound too; chords sound a lot more
> 'musical' than on the real thing. Why is this? The obvious answer is
> that it has been tuned to some extent. Not all the way - not so much
> that Antares doesn't still laugh at it - but enough to make it obvious
> that the voices have been tampered with.
> 
> Hmmm again. I just checked with the Gmedia web site found at
> http://www.gmediamusic.com/gforce/m-tron/M-Tron.html and they say 'The
> M-Tron captures all of the character of the original instrument by
> sampling every note of every key and adhering to the eight second limit
> of each note. This way, not only do the resultant sounds ebb and flow,
> all the inherent and nostalgic magic of each sound is closely observed -
> minor imperfections and all'. I disagree. Still...at least they didn;t
> loop it.
> 
> Soldiering on I try out the Mk II violins. The shriller notes (*that*
> Bb, for example, but strangely enough not *that* F#) have been excluded
> here as well and are sonically almost identical (aside from pitch, of
> course) to their immediate neighbours. Where the blazes did they get
> this 'original instrument' from which they 'sampl[ed] every note'? I
> don't know how many Mellotrons I've played but *none of them* have ever
> sounded like this.
> 
> I did an A/B of the Mk II strings and got my frame bang in tune with the
> M-Tron, then did a run up of the notes. Sure enough, some samples are
> duller than the frame and some are definitely out of tune with it,
> particularly the bottom G and the first D and E. Methinks someone has
> been tuning some sounds here, and if they have done this then what else
> have they done? Added a few coughs and chair scrapes? :-) Of course
> tuned sets have existed for a good while now and it's possible that they
> took their samples from such a set...but who made them?
> 
> And on the subject of strings...the string section. If anything is
> designed to show them up, this is the one. I have the string section
> here on frame #2. You all know it. Big sound. Crunching sound. As we all
> know, it's a blend of cellos, violas and Mk II strings. Unfortunately,
> if you play it fast enough on the M-Tron you'd be forgiven for thinking
> it was nothing but cellos. The start times are *miles* off - the cellos
> start -way- before the other strings. Does anyone have a string section
> on their Trons that sounds like this? I sure don't. So how (again) is
> this a faithful sample...unless they put it together themselves, that
> is.
> 
> The choirs are hopeless. They are either muffled to the extent that you
> cannot tell the male and female voices apart (oh, and the shrill female
> voice on the top C has mysteriously vanished as well) or they are
> brightened up so much that there is no mid or bottom range left to speak
> of. They also feature a load of old Mk II voices and rhythms, none of
> which - heresy! heresy! they cry - I am mad keen on and frankly none of
> which I can see the average M-Tron user ever bothering with. The old
> french horns, trombones and organ (among others) sound like a bunch of
> sine waves subjected to slightly different filters.
> 
> And another thing that bothered me; key clicks. Some of the sounds have
> very faint key clicks at the start of them. Or something. That's not
> necessarily a *bad* thing (although it shows up a badly adjusted tape
> set) but the timbre of the click troubled me a little. It seemed to be
> strangely *the same* throughout. I recorded the sound into Sound Forge
> and cut out everything but the key click, then repeated it to try and
> make out what it is. It's hard to tell, but I am suspicious of it. It
> *sounds* like it's percussive white (or maybe pink) noise dumped at the
> start of the start of the sound to mimic a click. Like I say, I might be
> wrong here but it sounds very odd.
> 
> On the plus side the Mk II strings actually sound reasonably okay,
> missing, botched or alterted notes notwithstanding, and the brass is
> surprisingly punchy (although they have about four different brass
> voices, all of which sound very similar indeed) and the Chamberlin
> sounds are, though thin on the ground, very well-presented. It's also a
> lot better than the existing Mellotron VSTs such as the Nanotron (which
> has a flute that sounds *okay* but a string section and choir that sound
> horrendous) and the bizarre Mellow-Sounds which which is the only
> example I have ever seen or heard of a ten octave Mellotron with choirs
> ranging from Mysteron Bass up to something only dogs can make out. Faced
> with that level of competition the M-tron wins absolutely hands down. In
> fact, I find it very weird that no one has ever tried to really make a
> properly functioning Mellotron substitute until now, with the M-Tron and
> the Memotron. If you go to a keyboard shop you'll find a myriad plastic
> boxes, all of which are fitted with drawbars and come with Leslie
> emulators - only because people still demand a real B3 sound. Maybe the
> Mellotron market is more limited than this.
> 
> I realise that not everyone has the requisite thousands to spend on a
> real Mellotron, and for that the M-Tron fills a yawning gap, but even
> for the relative inexpense it would be nice to get something that does
> exactly as it advertises and does not fall several yards short. It's not
> impossible to sample every voice on a properly functioning Mellotron and
> use that as is, without making artistic or auditory judgements on the
> product that warrant editorial meddling with the sound. Maybe someone
> will do this one day. GMedia certainly have not, and that's a pity.
> 
> Mike Dickson (tron@...) M400 #996
> The Official Cynic of Streetly Electronics
> Streetly Sample Library http://www.blackcat.demon.co.uk/tron/
>