Mellotronists

I've had the opportunity to play about with the GMedia M-Tron VST and
have to say that I'm not very impressed. Forget about anything to do
with 'purism' here; the real problem is just how *shit* some of it
sounds.

Most of the voices are very poorly recorded indeed. I've no idea whence
these recordings were sourced, but an awful lot of them are very noisy -
far noisier than the real thing. In fact the only time I've heard
noisier Mellotrons is when they are in Streetly prior to being fixed or
serviced. Was this noise added for effect or was the machine or tapes
from which these recordings were made defective in some way?

I'd single the solo flute out for special attention here. Given the fact
that the publicise this VST as a way of playing *those classic sounds*
without the need for *cumbersome machines and errant 1960s technology*,
you'd think that they would get on of the most famous voices spot-on.
The trouble is that there is popping all over the middle range of the
voice. I even went to the bother of dragging frame #1 out of the closet
and doing an A/B test. No pops on the tapes, but popping all over the
VST. The conclusion is therefore that either they added this or the
tapes are buggered. Discuss.

On the subject of the flute, there is a good clue here that things are
not all they seem anyway. As far as I know (I'm guessing to some extent
here and working only on what I have heard) GMedia claim that this is a
faithful recording of a real Mellotron, note-for-note, warts and all,
etc. Hmmm. I disagree. Walking down from the top F, the most distinctive
note on the solo flute is that 'Trio note' on the top D. You know - it
sounds like a penny whistle giving a good shriek. It ain't there on the
M-Tron. Neither is the second top F either - the one that 'warbles' a
bit to itself. But if it's a verbatim account of the voice, why are they
not there? Maybe they interpolate some of the samples. Maybe they didn't
like the sound of those notes and tuned the ones below them up by a
semitone. Whatever happened, it sure isn't a faithful recording of the
whole sound.

And something else was odd about that sound too; chords sound a lot more
'musical' than on the real thing. Why is this? The obvious answer is
that it has been tuned to some extent. Not all the way - not so much
that Antares doesn't still laugh at it - but enough to make it obvious
that the voices have been tampered with.

Hmmm again. I just checked with the Gmedia web site found at
http://www.gmediamusic.com/gforce/m-tron/M-Tron.html and they say 'The
M-Tron captures all of the character of the original instrument by
sampling every note of every key and adhering to the eight second limit
of each note. This way, not only do the resultant sounds ebb and flow,
all the inherent and nostalgic magic of each sound is closely observed -
minor imperfections and all'. I disagree. Still...at least they didn;t
loop it.

Soldiering on I try out the Mk II violins. The shriller notes (*that*
Bb, for example, but strangely enough not *that* F#) have been excluded
here as well and are sonically almost identical (aside from pitch, of
course) to their immediate neighbours. Where the blazes did they get
this 'original instrument' from which they 'sampl[ed] every note'? I
don't know how many Mellotrons I've played but *none of them* have ever
sounded like this.

I did an A/B of the Mk II strings and got my frame bang in tune with the
M-Tron, then did a run up of the notes. Sure enough, some samples are
duller than the frame and some are definitely out of tune with it,
particularly the bottom G and the first D and E. Methinks someone has
been tuning some sounds here, and if they have done this then what else
have they done? Added a few coughs and chair scrapes? :-) Of course
tuned sets have existed for a good while now and it's possible that they
took their samples from such a set...but who made them?

And on the subject of strings...the string section. If anything is
designed to show them up, this is the one. I have the string section
here on frame #2. You all know it. Big sound. Crunching sound. As we all
know, it's a blend of cellos, violas and Mk II strings. Unfortunately,
if you play it fast enough on the M-Tron you'd be forgiven for thinking
it was nothing but cellos. The start times are *miles* off - the cellos
start -way- before the other strings. Does anyone have a string section
on their Trons that sounds like this? I sure don't. So how (again) is
this a faithful sample...unless they put it together themselves, that
is.

The choirs are hopeless. They are either muffled to the extent that you
cannot tell the male and female voices apart (oh, and the shrill female
voice on the top C has mysteriously vanished as well) or they are
brightened up so much that there is no mid or bottom range left to speak
of. They also feature a load of old Mk II voices and rhythms, none of
which - heresy! heresy! they cry - I am mad keen on and frankly none of
which I can see the average M-Tron user ever bothering with. The old
french horns, trombones and organ (among others) sound like a bunch of
sine waves subjected to slightly different filters.

And another thing that bothered me; key clicks. Some of the sounds have
very faint key clicks at the start of them. Or something. That's not
necessarily a *bad* thing (although it shows up a badly adjusted tape
set) but the timbre of the click troubled me a little. It seemed to be
strangely *the same* throughout. I recorded the sound into Sound Forge
and cut out everything but the key click, then repeated it to try and
make out what it is. It's hard to tell, but I am suspicious of it. It
*sounds* like it's percussive white (or maybe pink) noise dumped at the
start of the start of the sound to mimic a click. Like I say, I might be
wrong here but it sounds very odd.

On the plus side the Mk II strings actually sound reasonably okay,
missing, botched or alterted notes notwithstanding, and the brass is
surprisingly punchy (although they have about four different brass
voices, all of which sound very similar indeed) and the Chamberlin
sounds are, though thin on the ground, very well-presented. It's also a
lot better than the existing Mellotron VSTs such as the Nanotron (which
has a flute that sounds *okay* but a string section and choir that sound
horrendous) and the bizarre Mellow-Sounds which which is the only
example I have ever seen or heard of a ten octave Mellotron with choirs
ranging from Mysteron Bass up to something only dogs can make out. Faced
with that level of competition the M-tron wins absolutely hands down. In
fact, I find it very weird that no one has ever tried to really make a
properly functioning Mellotron substitute until now, with the M-Tron and
the Memotron. If you go to a keyboard shop you'll find a myriad plastic
boxes, all of which are fitted with drawbars and come with Leslie
emulators - only because people still demand a real B3 sound. Maybe the
Mellotron market is more limited than this.

I realise that not everyone has the requisite thousands to spend on a
real Mellotron, and for that the M-Tron fills a yawning gap, but even
for the relative inexpense it would be nice to get something that does
exactly as it advertises and does not fall several yards short. It's not
impossible to sample every voice on a properly functioning Mellotron and
use that as is, without making artistic or auditory judgements on the
product that warrant editorial meddling with the sound. Maybe someone
will do this one day. GMedia certainly have not, and that's a pity.

Mike Dickson (tron@...) M400 #996
The Official Cynic of Streetly Electronics
Streetly Sample Library http://www.blackcat.demon.co.uk/tron/

A band I work with was wanting to put some "tron" on one of
their tracks in a studio last month, and the studio guy let them 
try out the G-Media M-Tron ... but they didn't like it at all 
and ended up not using any
(I gave them a go with the Pindertron round at my place, and 
they found it much more acceptable).

Mike, if I were Streetly, I'd post your review of M-Tron on 
the Streetly site, with some high bitrate MP3 comparisons 
to illustrate your complaints.
The article could be entitled "why buy a real mellotron 
when you can just use a softsynth plugin?" ...

DAVID
http://www.feline1.co.uk

--- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, tron@... wrote:

>
> I've had the opportunity to play about with the GMedia M-Tron VST and
> have to say that I'm not very impressed. Forget about anything to do
> with 'purism' here; the real problem is just how *shit* some of it
> sounds.
> 
> Most of the voices are very poorly recorded indeed. I've no idea whence
> these recordings were sourced, but an awful lot of them are very noisy -
> far noisier than the real thing. In fact the only time I've heard
> noisier Mellotrons is when they are in Streetly prior to being fixed or
> serviced. Was this noise added for effect or was the machine or tapes
> from which these recordings were made defective in some way?
> 
> I'd single the solo flute out for special attention here. Given the fact
> that the publicise this VST as a way of playing *those classic sounds*
> without the need for *cumbersome machines and errant 1960s technology*,
> you'd think that they would get on of the most famous voices spot-on.
> The trouble is that there is popping all over the middle range of the
> voice. I even went to the bother of dragging frame #1 out of the closet
> and doing an A/B test. No pops on the tapes, but popping all over the
> VST. The conclusion is therefore that either they added this or the
> tapes are buggered. Discuss.
> 
> On the subject of the flute, there is a good clue here that things are
> not all they seem anyway. As far as I know (I'm guessing to some extent
> here and working only on what I have heard) GMedia claim that this is a
> faithful recording of a real Mellotron, note-for-note, warts and all,
> etc. Hmmm. I disagree. Walking down from the top F, the most distinctive
> note on the solo flute is that 'Trio note' on the top D. You know - it
> sounds like a penny whistle giving a good shriek. It ain't there on the
> M-Tron. Neither is the second top F either - the one that 'warbles' a
> bit to itself. But if it's a verbatim account of the voice, why are they
> not there? Maybe they interpolate some of the samples. Maybe they didn't
> like the sound of those notes and tuned the ones below them up by a
> semitone. Whatever happened, it sure isn't a faithful recording of the
> whole sound.
> 
> And something else was odd about that sound too; chords sound a lot more
> 'musical' than on the real thing. Why is this? The obvious answer is
> that it has been tuned to some extent. Not all the way - not so much
> that Antares doesn't still laugh at it - but enough to make it obvious
> that the voices have been tampered with.
> 
> Hmmm again. I just checked with the Gmedia web site found at
> http://www.gmediamusic.com/gforce/m-tron/M-Tron.html and they say 'The
> M-Tron captures all of the character of the original instrument by
> sampling every note of every key and adhering to the eight second limit
> of each note. This way, not only do the resultant sounds ebb and flow,
> all the inherent and nostalgic magic of each sound is closely observed -
> minor imperfections and all'. I disagree. Still...at least they didn;t
> loop it.
> 
> Soldiering on I try out the Mk II violins. The shriller notes (*that*
> Bb, for example, but strangely enough not *that* F#) have been excluded
> here as well and are sonically almost identical (aside from pitch, of
> course) to their immediate neighbours. Where the blazes did they get
> this 'original instrument' from which they 'sampl[ed] every note'? I
> don't know how many Mellotrons I've played but *none of them* have ever
> sounded like this.
> 
> I did an A/B of the Mk II strings and got my frame bang in tune with the
> M-Tron, then did a run up of the notes. Sure enough, some samples are
> duller than the frame and some are definitely out of tune with it,
> particularly the bottom G and the first D and E. Methinks someone has
> been tuning some sounds here, and if they have done this then what else
> have they done? Added a few coughs and chair scrapes? :-) Of course
> tuned sets have existed for a good while now and it's possible that they
> took their samples from such a set...but who made them?
> 
> And on the subject of strings...the string section. If anything is
> designed to show them up, this is the one. I have the string section
> here on frame #2. You all know it. Big sound. Crunching sound. As we all
> know, it's a blend of cellos, violas and Mk II strings. Unfortunately,
> if you play it fast enough on the M-Tron you'd be forgiven for thinking
> it was nothing but cellos. The start times are *miles* off - the cellos
> start -way- before the other strings. Does anyone have a string section
> on their Trons that sounds like this? I sure don't. So how (again) is
> this a faithful sample...unless they put it together themselves, that
> is.
> 
> The choirs are hopeless. They are either muffled to the extent that you
> cannot tell the male and female voices apart (oh, and the shrill female
> voice on the top C has mysteriously vanished as well) or they are
> brightened up so much that there is no mid or bottom range left to speak
> of. They also feature a load of old Mk II voices and rhythms, none of
> which - heresy! heresy! they cry - I am mad keen on and frankly none of
> which I can see the average M-Tron user ever bothering with. The old
> french horns, trombones and organ (among others) sound like a bunch of
> sine waves subjected to slightly different filters.
> 
> And another thing that bothered me; key clicks. Some of the sounds have
> very faint key clicks at the start of them. Or something. That's not
> necessarily a *bad* thing (although it shows up a badly adjusted tape
> set) but the timbre of the click troubled me a little. It seemed to be
> strangely *the same* throughout. I recorded the sound into Sound Forge
> and cut out everything but the key click, then repeated it to try and
> make out what it is. It's hard to tell, but I am suspicious of it. It
> *sounds* like it's percussive white (or maybe pink) noise dumped at the
> start of the start of the sound to mimic a click. Like I say, I might be
> wrong here but it sounds very odd.
> 
> On the plus side the Mk II strings actually sound reasonably okay,
> missing, botched or alterted notes notwithstanding, and the brass is
> surprisingly punchy (although they have about four different brass
> voices, all of which sound very similar indeed) and the Chamberlin
> sounds are, though thin on the ground, very well-presented. It's also a
> lot better than the existing Mellotron VSTs such as the Nanotron (which
> has a flute that sounds *okay* but a string section and choir that sound
> horrendous) and the bizarre Mellow-Sounds which which is the only
> example I have ever seen or heard of a ten octave Mellotron with choirs
> ranging from Mysteron Bass up to something only dogs can make out. Faced
> with that level of competition the M-tron wins absolutely hands down. In
> fact, I find it very weird that no one has ever tried to really make a
> properly functioning Mellotron substitute until now, with the M-Tron and
> the Memotron. If you go to a keyboard shop you'll find a myriad plastic
> boxes, all of which are fitted with drawbars and come with Leslie
> emulators - only because people still demand a real B3 sound. Maybe the
> Mellotron market is more limited than this.
> 
> I realise that not everyone has the requisite thousands to spend on a
> real Mellotron, and for that the M-Tron fills a yawning gap, but even
> for the relative inexpense it would be nice to get something that does
> exactly as it advertises and does not fall several yards short. It's not
> impossible to sample every voice on a properly functioning Mellotron and
> use that as is, without making artistic or auditory judgements on the
> product that warrant editorial meddling with the sound. Maybe someone
> will do this one day. GMedia certainly have not, and that's a pity.
> 
> Mike Dickson (tron@...) M400 #996
> The Official Cynic of Streetly Electronics
> Streetly Sample Library http://www.blackcat.demon.co.uk/tron/
>

>
>
So what did you expect, after all it was these "cumbersome machines 
and errant 1960's technology" that gave these sounds their 
signature,and all it takes is some bonehead engineer to think they are 
going to reinvent something by "cleaning up" the ideosyncrasies that 
is the very signature of a Mellotron.  Seems they have learned nothing 
from the Hammond clones. Sure I can get my Juno 6 to a close proximity 
of a Hammond or a poly6 to sound LIKE tron strings, but it goes back 
to apple and orange comparisons, like Days of Future Passed.
I had a chance to hear these at a local music store and agree there 
are severe shortcomings to a majority of the sounds, but guess what, 
unless you have something to compare it to, one would not note the 
difference. 
 If anyone out there is looking for authentic Tron sounds then get a 
unit and be done instead of wasting time on worthless replicas.  
Whew!!  Doug Berg (cumbersome machine with errant 1960's technology)
#703

Mike-  Mellotron Archives Mike Pinder Mellotron CD Rom loaded into 
the right sampler....there's no substitute. With the filters and efx 
on my Emu E4K this sounds amazing (ask Jerry Korb who has my 
CDs...Jerry?)
Charles







--- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, tron@... wrote:
>
> I've had the opportunity to play about with the GMedia M-Tron VST 
and
> have to say that I'm not very impressed. Forget about anything to 
do
> with 'purism' here; the real problem is just how *shit* some of it
> sounds.
> 
> Most of the voices are very poorly recorded indeed. I've no idea 
whence
> these recordings were sourced, but an awful lot of them are very 
noisy -
> far noisier than the real thing. In fact the only time I've heard
> noisier Mellotrons is when they are in Streetly prior to being 
fixed or
> serviced. Was this noise added for effect or was the machine or 
tapes
> from which these recordings were made defective in some way?
> 
> I'd single the solo flute out for special attention here. Given 
the fact
> that the publicise this VST as a way of playing *those classic 
sounds*
> without the need for *cumbersome machines and errant 1960s 
technology*,
> you'd think that they would get on of the most famous voices spot-
on.
> The trouble is that there is popping all over the middle range of 
the
> voice. I even went to the bother of dragging frame #1 out of the 
closet
> and doing an A/B test. No pops on the tapes, but popping all over 
the
> VST. The conclusion is therefore that either they added this or the
> tapes are buggered. Discuss.
> 
> On the subject of the flute, there is a good clue here that things 
are
> not all they seem anyway. As far as I know (I'm guessing to some 
extent
> here and working only on what I have heard) GMedia claim that this 
is a
> faithful recording of a real Mellotron, note-for-note, warts and 
all,
> etc. Hmmm. I disagree. Walking down from the top F, the most 
distinctive
> note on the solo flute is that 'Trio note' on the top D. You know -
 it
> sounds like a penny whistle giving a good shriek. It ain't there 
on the
> M-Tron. Neither is the second top F either - the one 
that 'warbles' a
> bit to itself. But if it's a verbatim account of the voice, why 
are they
> not there? Maybe they interpolate some of the samples. Maybe they 
didn't
> like the sound of those notes and tuned the ones below them up by a
> semitone. Whatever happened, it sure isn't a faithful recording of 
the
> whole sound.
> 
> And something else was odd about that sound too; chords sound a 
lot more
> 'musical' than on the real thing. Why is this? The obvious answer 
is
> that it has been tuned to some extent. Not all the way - not so 
much
> that Antares doesn't still laugh at it - but enough to make it 
obvious
> that the voices have been tampered with.
> 
> Hmmm again. I just checked with the Gmedia web site found at
> http://www.gmediamusic.com/gforce/m-tron/M-Tron.html and they 
say 'The
> M-Tron captures all of the character of the original instrument by
> sampling every note of every key and adhering to the eight second 
limit
> of each note. This way, not only do the resultant sounds ebb and 
flow,
> all the inherent and nostalgic magic of each sound is closely 
observed -
> minor imperfections and all'. I disagree. Still...at least they 
didn;t
> loop it.
> 
> Soldiering on I try out the Mk II violins. The shriller notes 
(*that*
> Bb, for example, but strangely enough not *that* F#) have been 
excluded
> here as well and are sonically almost identical (aside from pitch, 
of
> course) to their immediate neighbours. Where the blazes did they 
get
> this 'original instrument' from which they 'sampl[ed] every note'? 
I
> don't know how many Mellotrons I've played but *none of them* have 
ever
> sounded like this.
> 
> I did an A/B of the Mk II strings and got my frame bang in tune 
with the
> M-Tron, then did a run up of the notes. Sure enough, some samples 
are
> duller than the frame and some are definitely out of tune with it,
> particularly the bottom G and the first D and E. Methinks someone 
has
> been tuning some sounds here, and if they have done this then what 
else
> have they done? Added a few coughs and chair scrapes? :-) Of course
> tuned sets have existed for a good while now and it's possible 
that they
> took their samples from such a set...but who made them?
> 
> And on the subject of strings...the string section. If anything is
> designed to show them up, this is the one. I have the string 
section
> here on frame #2. You all know it. Big sound. Crunching sound. As 
we all
> know, it's a blend of cellos, violas and Mk II strings. 
Unfortunately,
> if you play it fast enough on the M-Tron you'd be forgiven for 
thinking
> it was nothing but cellos. The start times are *miles* off - the 
cellos
> start -way- before the other strings. Does anyone have a string 
section
> on their Trons that sounds like this? I sure don't. So how (again) 
is
> this a faithful sample...unless they put it together themselves, 
that
> is.
> 
> The choirs are hopeless. They are either muffled to the extent 
that you
> cannot tell the male and female voices apart (oh, and the shrill 
female
> voice on the top C has mysteriously vanished as well) or they are
> brightened up so much that there is no mid or bottom range left to 
speak
> of. They also feature a load of old Mk II voices and rhythms, none 
of
> which - heresy! heresy! they cry - I am mad keen on and frankly 
none of
> which I can see the average M-Tron user ever bothering with. The 
old
> french horns, trombones and organ (among others) sound like a 
bunch of
> sine waves subjected to slightly different filters.
> 
> And another thing that bothered me; key clicks. Some of the sounds 
have
> very faint key clicks at the start of them. Or something. That's 
not
> necessarily a *bad* thing (although it shows up a badly adjusted 
tape
> set) but the timbre of the click troubled me a little. It seemed 
to be
> strangely *the same* throughout. I recorded the sound into Sound 
Forge
> and cut out everything but the key click, then repeated it to try 
and
> make out what it is. It's hard to tell, but I am suspicious of it. 
It
> *sounds* like it's percussive white (or maybe pink) noise dumped 
at the
> start of the start of the sound to mimic a click. Like I say, I 
might be
> wrong here but it sounds very odd.
> 
> On the plus side the Mk II strings actually sound reasonably okay,
> missing, botched or alterted notes notwithstanding, and the brass 
is
> surprisingly punchy (although they have about four different brass
> voices, all of which sound very similar indeed) and the Chamberlin
> sounds are, though thin on the ground, very well-presented. It's 
also a
> lot better than the existing Mellotron VSTs such as the Nanotron 
(which
> has a flute that sounds *okay* but a string section and choir that 
sound
> horrendous) and the bizarre Mellow-Sounds which which is the only
> example I have ever seen or heard of a ten octave Mellotron with 
choirs
> ranging from Mysteron Bass up to something only dogs can make out. 
Faced
> with that level of competition the M-tron wins absolutely hands 
down. In
> fact, I find it very weird that no one has ever tried to really 
make a
> properly functioning Mellotron substitute until now, with the M-
Tron and
> the Memotron. If you go to a keyboard shop you'll find a myriad 
plastic
> boxes, all of which are fitted with drawbars and come with Leslie
> emulators - only because people still demand a real B3 sound. 
Maybe the
> Mellotron market is more limited than this.
> 
> I realise that not everyone has the requisite thousands to spend 
on a
> real Mellotron, and for that the M-Tron fills a yawning gap, but 
even
> for the relative inexpense it would be nice to get something that 
does
> exactly as it advertises and does not fall several yards short. 
It's not
> impossible to sample every voice on a properly functioning 
Mellotron and
> use that as is, without making artistic or auditory judgements on 
the
> product that warrant editorial meddling with the sound. Maybe 
someone

> will do this one day. GMedia certainly have not, and that's a pity.
> 
> Mike Dickson (tron@...) M400 #996
> The Official Cynic of Streetly Electronics
> Streetly Sample Library http://www.blackcat.demon.co.uk/tron/
>

Mike,

Nice review of the M-Tron. Probably too technical for Keyboard 
Magazine though :) Did you demo the combined set of sounds?

I purchased the original M-Tron and the 3 volumes that followed 
before GMedia combined them into one package. The original M-Tron 
and volume 1 of additional sounds were recorded from at least one 
M400 (one of which allegedly belonged to an East German spy), at 
least one Chamberlin (model unknown), a Birotron and a Roland VP330+.

The MkII sounds on volume 2 are miked recordings of Klaus Hoffmann-
Hoock's 1965 MkII. At least some of the other recordings on volume 3 
appear to be Klaus' samples "all of which had been lovingly 
denoised, scaled and tuned, yet still retained all of the necessary 
warmth and character", according to the CD jacket. Also from the 
same jacket, "Similarly, with instruments and tapes acquired from 
musicians such as Tangerine Dream and Frank Zappa, in addition to 
some ultra-rare recordings never previously released on any Tron 
library...".

Volume 3 "contains several layered Mellotron sounds which may upset 
a few purists out there", at least some of which apparently also 
come from Klaus' sample collection. There are also some SFX sound 
effects and new G-Media choirs.

There are multiple banks of the same sound. For instance, there are 
two versions of the M300A and M300B strings. There is also a big 
difference in the quality of the sound among versions. I agree that 
the MkII sounds are the best quality. Some sounds are atrocious, 
while others are pretty decent. Some sounds are not available on any 
other sample set, such as the SFX sound effects. Processed in a mix, 
I think several sounds could be useful; obviously not as good as the 
real thing though.

Bernie


--- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, tron@... wrote:
>
> I've had the opportunity to play about with the GMedia M-Tron VST 
and
> have to say that I'm not very impressed. Forget about anything to 
do
> with 'purism' here; the real problem is just how *shit* some of it
> sounds.
> 
> Most of the voices are very poorly recorded indeed. I've no idea 
whence
> these recordings were sourced, but an awful lot of them are very 
noisy -
> far noisier than the real thing. In fact the only time I've heard
> noisier Mellotrons is when they are in Streetly prior to being 
fixed or
> serviced. Was this noise added for effect or was the machine or 
tapes
> from which these recordings were made defective in some way?
> 
> I'd single the solo flute out for special attention here. Given 
the fact
> that the publicise this VST as a way of playing *those classic 
sounds*
> without the need for *cumbersome machines and errant 1960s 
technology*,
> you'd think that they would get on of the most famous voices spot-
on.
> The trouble is that there is popping all over the middle range of 
the
> voice. I even went to the bother of dragging frame #1 out of the 
closet
> and doing an A/B test. No pops on the tapes, but popping all over 
the
> VST. The conclusion is therefore that either they added this or the
> tapes are buggered. Discuss.
> 
> On the subject of the flute, there is a good clue here that things 
are
> not all they seem anyway. As far as I know (I'm guessing to some 
extent
> here and working only on what I have heard) GMedia claim that this 
is a
> faithful recording of a real Mellotron, note-for-note, warts and 
all,
> etc. Hmmm. I disagree. Walking down from the top F, the most 
distinctive
> note on the solo flute is that 'Trio note' on the top D. You know -
 it
> sounds like a penny whistle giving a good shriek. It ain't there 
on the
> M-Tron. Neither is the second top F either - the one 
that 'warbles' a
> bit to itself. But if it's a verbatim account of the voice, why 
are they
> not there? Maybe they interpolate some of the samples. Maybe they 
didn't
> like the sound of those notes and tuned the ones below them up by a
> semitone. Whatever happened, it sure isn't a faithful recording of 
the
> whole sound.
> 
> And something else was odd about that sound too; chords sound a 
lot more
> 'musical' than on the real thing. Why is this? The obvious answer 
is
> that it has been tuned to some extent. Not all the way - not so 
much
> that Antares doesn't still laugh at it - but enough to make it 
obvious
> that the voices have been tampered with.
> 
> Hmmm again. I just checked with the Gmedia web site found at
> http://www.gmediamusic.com/gforce/m-tron/M-Tron.html and they 
say 'The
> M-Tron captures all of the character of the original instrument by
> sampling every note of every key and adhering to the eight second 
limit
> of each note. This way, not only do the resultant sounds ebb and 
flow,
> all the inherent and nostalgic magic of each sound is closely 
observed -
> minor imperfections and all'. I disagree. Still...at least they 
didn;t
> loop it.
> 
> Soldiering on I try out the Mk II violins. The shriller notes 
(*that*
> Bb, for example, but strangely enough not *that* F#) have been 
excluded
> here as well and are sonically almost identical (aside from pitch, 
of
> course) to their immediate neighbours. Where the blazes did they 
get
> this 'original instrument' from which they 'sampl[ed] every note'? 
I
> don't know how many Mellotrons I've played but *none of them* have 
ever
> sounded like this.
> 
> I did an A/B of the Mk II strings and got my frame bang in tune 
with the
> M-Tron, then did a run up of the notes. Sure enough, some samples 
are
> duller than the frame and some are definitely out of tune with it,
> particularly the bottom G and the first D and E. Methinks someone 
has
> been tuning some sounds here, and if they have done this then what 
else
> have they done? Added a few coughs and chair scrapes? :-) Of course
> tuned sets have existed for a good while now and it's possible 
that they
> took their samples from such a set...but who made them?
> 
> And on the subject of strings...the string section. If anything is
> designed to show them up, this is the one. I have the string 
section
> here on frame #2. You all know it. Big sound. Crunching sound. As 
we all
> know, it's a blend of cellos, violas and Mk II strings. 
Unfortunately,
> if you play it fast enough on the M-Tron you'd be forgiven for 
thinking
> it was nothing but cellos. The start times are *miles* off - the 
cellos
> start -way- before the other strings. Does anyone have a string 
section
> on their Trons that sounds like this? I sure don't. So how (again) 
is
> this a faithful sample...unless they put it together themselves, 
that
> is.
> 
> The choirs are hopeless. They are either muffled to the extent 
that you
> cannot tell the male and female voices apart (oh, and the shrill 
female
> voice on the top C has mysteriously vanished as well) or they are
> brightened up so much that there is no mid or bottom range left to 
speak
> of. They also feature a load of old Mk II voices and rhythms, none 
of
> which - heresy! heresy! they cry - I am mad keen on and frankly 
none of
> which I can see the average M-Tron user ever bothering with. The 
old
> french horns, trombones and organ (among others) sound like a 
bunch of
> sine waves subjected to slightly different filters.
> 
> And another thing that bothered me; key clicks. Some of the sounds 
have
> very faint key clicks at the start of them. Or something. That's 
not
> necessarily a *bad* thing (although it shows up a badly adjusted 
tape
> set) but the timbre of the click troubled me a little. It seemed 
to be
> strangely *the same* throughout. I recorded the sound into Sound 
Forge
> and cut out everything but the key click, then repeated it to try 
and
> make out what it is. It's hard to tell, but I am suspicious of it. 
It
> *sounds* like it's percussive white (or maybe pink) noise dumped 
at the
> start of the start of the sound to mimic a click. Like I say, I 
might be
> wrong here but it sounds very odd.
> 
> On the plus side the Mk II strings actually sound reasonably okay,
> missing, botched or alterted notes notwithstanding, and the brass 
is
> surprisingly punchy (although they have about four different brass
> voices, all of which sound very similar indeed) and the Chamberlin
> sounds are, though thin on the ground, very well-presented. It's 
also a
> lot better than the existing Mellotron VSTs such as the Nanotron 
(which
> has a flute that sounds *okay* but a string section and choir that 
sound
> horrendous) and the bizarre Mellow-Sounds which which is the only
> example I have ever seen or heard of a ten octave Mellotron with 
choirs
> ranging from Mysteron Bass up to something only dogs can make out. 
Faced
> with that level of competition the M-tron wins absolutely hands 
down. In
> fact, I find it very weird that no one has ever tried to really 
make a
> properly functioning Mellotron substitute until now, with the M-
Tron and
> the Memotron. If you go to a keyboard shop you'll find a myriad 
plastic
> boxes, all of which are fitted with drawbars and come with Leslie
> emulators - only because people still demand a real B3 sound. 
Maybe the
> Mellotron market is more limited than this.
> 
> I realise that not everyone has the requisite thousands to spend 
on a
> real Mellotron, and for that the M-Tron fills a yawning gap, but 
even
> for the relative inexpense it would be nice to get something that 
does
> exactly as it advertises and does not fall several yards short. 
It's not
> impossible to sample every voice on a properly functioning 
Mellotron and
> use that as is, without making artistic or auditory judgements on 
the
> product that warrant editorial meddling with the sound. Maybe 
someone

> will do this one day. GMedia certainly have not, and that's a pity.
> 
> Mike Dickson (tron@...) M400 #996
> The Official Cynic of Streetly Electronics
> Streetly Sample Library http://www.blackcat.demon.co.uk/tron/
>

> I had a chance to hear these at a local music store and agree there
> are severe shortcomings to a majority of the sounds, but guess what,
> unless you have something to compare it to, one would not note the
> difference.

That's a fair point. By extension, I have nothing else to compare the
M-Tron to other than the real thing; I don't even own a sampler and
hence the Pindertron CD is not something that I can use.

> If anyone out there is looking for authentic Tron sounds then get a
> unit and be done instead of wasting time on worthless replicas.

Now -there- is something I agree with.

Mike Dickson (tron@...) M400 #996
The Official Cynic of Streetly Electronics
Streetly Sample Library http://www.blackcat.demon.co.uk/tron/

> Nice review of the M-Tron. Probably too technical for Keyboard
> Magazine though :) Did you demo the combined set of sounds?

I'm not sure - it all comes in one box and seems to have a large number
of sounds. I *think* it's the combined version.

> and volume 1 of additional sounds were recorded from at least one
> M400 (one of which allegedly belonged to an East German spy), at
> least one Chamberlin (model unknown), a Birotron and a Roland VP330+.

Where did they get the Birotron from? At this point I stand up and let
myself be counted as one fo the handful of people who have actually
played a Birotron, thanks to Messrs Smith and Bradley who had one at
Streetly a while back. For a 'tabletop' keyboard it weighs a ludicrous
amount, and although a Mellotron might seem a little noisy when it is
turned on the Biro is absurd, with the whirring (or more likely
clattering) of the cartridges at the back.

The reason I mention this is because the Birotron sounds on the M-Tron
are easily the worst of the lot as far as fidelity is concerned. This
surprised me a great deal, as the Biro is actually not bad sounding at
all and does indeed boast great clarity of sound. Now I admit that I had
played a renovated model with re-recorded tapes and that the old models
wore out cartridges fast due to the playback heads grinding them down
fast, but why did they even bother if the Biro they had access to was as
shagged out as this? When I was previewing the sounds on the M-Tron I
just flicked through them all one after another (the sound selector on
neither of my MIDI keyboards advances the sound selection on the M-Tron,
which seems to be a design fault of theirs) and when I happened upon
B_CHOIR I was wondering (a) why they had bothered with the Orchestron
and (b) why they had not called the sound O-CHOIR. It's that bad.

And while I am on a further series of grips...the solo viola. This one
is the mainstay of the Dickstrings sound. The bottom end is a very
'scratchy' sound and gives the impression it was recorded in a phone
box. The M-Tron has no suchproblems; they use the cello for the bottom
five notes. *Bad idea*.

> The MkII sounds on volume 2 are miked recordings of Klaus Hoffmann-
> Hoock's 1965 MkII.

Oooh. Nasty.

> same jacket, "Similarly, with instruments and tapes acquired from
> musicians such as Tangerine Dream and Frank Zappa, in addition to
> some ultra-rare recordings never previously released on any Tron
> library...".

Tangerine Dream? Interesting. Didn't Radiohead use TD's original tapes
on 'Exit Music'? Try playing this track 'karaoke style' with the centre
position phased out. The choir is shot, like the tape rack was lying
next to an electromagnet for the last ten years. That's not something
I'd be shouting about!

> Volume 3 "contains several layered Mellotron sounds which may upset
> a few purists out there", at least some of which apparently also
> come from Klaus' sample collection. There are also some SFX sound
> effects and new G-Media choirs.

What are the 'new GMedia choirs'? I have an SFX sound, 'Roxy Strings'
(which are really good) and 'Yes Strings' which is string section by any
other name. Myself I'd like them to get the original 'Yes Vocals' tape
set - the one you hear at the end of 'Siberian Khatru'. At least that
would be something quite new!

Mike Dickson (tron@...) M400 #996
The Official Cynic of Streetly Electronics
Streetly Sample Library http://www.blackcat.demon.co.uk/tron/

"If anyone out there is looking for authentic Tron (Chamberlin) sounds then
get a unit and be done instead of wasting time on worthless replicas."

"Worthless"...??

I've owned a Chamberlin and have played and recorded 'Trons, and I'm
tickled-to-death with the Pinder samples...

I now have access to all the Chamberlin samples that were not originally
loaded in my machine, and have none of the hassles of maintaining it...

And to my ears and fingers, you would have a hard time telling the two apart
on tape....

Maybe "worthless" to you, but for folks like me, that CD is a fabulous tool.
Bring on Volume II...

Bruce

-- 
Listen to, and download my CD "Mandolin Graffiti" at:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=608806

> Where did they get the Birotron from?

The documentation doesn't say, but there must be at least a few 
still kicking around.

> The reason I mention this is because the Birotron sounds on the M-
Tron are easily the worst of the lot as far as fidelity is 
concerned. This surprised me a great deal, as the Biro is actually 
not bad sounding at all and does indeed boast great clarity of sound.

My only experience with sound of the Bitotron (which was developed 
about a 20 minute drive from my house) is the M-Tron. I just assumed 
all Bitotrons sounded that bad. 

> Tangerine Dream? Interesting. Didn't Radiohead use TD's original 
tapes on 'Exit Music'?

???

> What are the 'new GMedia choirs'?

The StPetersChoirAh and StPetersChoirOo.

Bernie

--- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Harvie <tonewoods@...> 
wrote:
>
> "If anyone out there is looking for authentic Tron (Chamberlin) 
sounds then
> get a unit and be done instead of wasting time on worthless 
replicas."
> 
> "Worthless"...??
> 
> I've owned a Chamberlin and have played and recorded 'Trons, and 
I'm
> tickled-to-death with the Pinder samples...
> 
> I now have access to all the Chamberlin samples that were not 
originally
> loaded in my machine, and have none of the hassles of maintaining 
it...
> 
> And to my ears and fingers, you would have a hard time telling the 
two apart
> on tape....
> 
> Maybe "worthless" to you, but for folks like me, that CD is a 
fabulous tool.
> Bring on Volume II...
> 
> Bruce
> 
> -- 
> Listen to, and download my CD "Mandolin Graffiti" at:
> http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=608806
>


Allright, should have been more specific.  I also have the Pinder 
cd, probably one of the first when it released, and agree it is 
outstanding, as there are other QUALITY samples out there.  However 
releasing something commercially, for the mainstream user, one would 
think it could have been done better than this. As soon as I return 
home will download your work and thank you for that. Doug (owner of 
many erratic 70's inferior examples)

Mike, I'm glad that you've made this post.  Since I've joined the board, 
there hasn't seemed to be much room for discussing the pros and cons of 
the M-tron.  I fall into the category of those that would love to own a 
'tron but currently can't afford one, what with Bush's economic miracle 
and two boys bound for college, so I've had to content myself with the 
M-tron.
I'm running on a pretty fast PC that I set up for animation and graphics 
usage, so there's not been any real concession to audio output on this 
machine.  I'm using  ASIO4ALL v2 as my audio driver and an EMU Xboard49 
midi controller on which I've reassigned the pitch bend function to the 
modulation wheel so you don't get an automatic return to zero when you 
take your hand off of it.  To be honest, I don't think that M-tron will 
work with the standard midi pitch bender due to some odd decision made 
by the M-tron software folks.  While on this subject, I haven't been 
able to find a midi channel that controls tape sound changes within the 
software - something that should be quite easy to accomplish from the 
keyboard.  I'd have to say that Gmedia's midi assignments for M-tron are 
questionable at best.

I have never played a 'tron, so I had nothing to compare to when I 
started with the M-tron, and I was generally overjoyed to hear those 
familiar sounds coming from a keyboard I was playing.  It soon became 
apparent (within fifteen minutes or so) that there was something not 
quite right about the sound I was getting.  A lot of the tape settings 
were extremely noisy, some having a rumble on certain keys that was 
quite audible, and the popping that you've described in the Flutes ( 
which was present in many of the sounds)  was very irritating.  I 
believe that the popping is symptomatic of the settings of the audio 
driver, as I've been able to dial most (if not all) of it out by setting 
my buffer size to 1400+ samples - maybe others here have experience with 
this.  The noise in the tapes must be either bad tapes or poorly 
maintained units.  I can't see how any musician/producer/engineer would 
have found this level of noise to be acceptable for studio recordings 
and it doesn't seem to be something that could really be eq'd out of the 
mix.  The tuning on the flute does seem rather suspect - I've tried a 
rather simple task like learning the 'tron part for Strawberry fields 
and it seems that I'm constantly having to readjust the pitch while 
playing (or maybe I'm just getting the notes wrong).

The choirs are not the strong presence that one would expect - overall 
they seem quite muddy and I can't imagine a very good use for them at 
this point.  One of the MK II rhythm sounds has a note (down somewhere 
around b) that plays backwards giving you that "revolver" feel.  
Regarding the String Section, I've noticed that the start time of the 
Cellos gets further out front the farther you go up the keyboard - so I 
simply avoid this setting altogether - it's useless.

I wish the quality of the M-tron samples were better, but for someone in 
my current situation with no professional justification for the cost of 
the real thing (and no way to swing it even if the justification was 
there),  I'll have to continue to make do with M-tron for now (and be 
glad that I've got it).

john barrick

PS - there aren't by any chance plans for a Streetly charity ward?

--- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Harvie <tonewoods@...> 
wrote:
>
> "If anyone out there is looking for authentic Tron (Chamberlin) 
sounds then
> get a unit and be done instead of wasting time on worthless 
replicas."
> 
> "Worthless"...??
> 
> I've owned a Chamberlin and have played and recorded 'Trons, and 
I'm
> tickled-to-death with the Pinder samples...
> 
> I now have access to all the Chamberlin samples that were not 
originally
> loaded in my machine, and have none of the hassles of maintaining 
it...
> 
> And to my ears and fingers, you would have a hard time telling the 
two apart
> on tape....
> 
> Maybe "worthless" to you, but for folks like me, that CD is a 
fabulous tool.
> Bring on Volume II...
> 
> Bruce
> 
> -- 
> Listen to, and download my CD "Mandolin Graffiti" at:
> http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=608806
>

Since I've never even seen a Chamberlin, I can't speak to any 
maintenance issue, but I've owned an M400S Mellotron for more than 
30 years and I think it's safe to say that Mellotrons are virtually 
maintenance-free; certainly more maintenance-free than my guitars or 
my car.

I also have the Pinder CD. It could very well be the best set of 
samples on the market (I especially like the Chamberlin samples; 
less so the Tron samples), but my ears and especially my fingers can 
certainly tell the difference between the Pinder Tron samples and a 
real Tron. But buried in a mix, that's a different story.

Bernie

I bought m-tron (full version) earlier this year, with the intent of exporting the sounds as .wav files, looping them and dropping them into my sampler.

After reading the recent posts, well...case closed.  Here are two 
individuals who never heard the real sounds outside a recording 
realm, and cannot afford the real thing.  
To all those in similar situations, try to reason this.  Depending 
when and how you bought the GForce, you paid between $100 and $200, 
right? If your computer has a program that will read Akai format, 
then you can still get the Pinder Cd for $199 which is what I paid 
for mine back in 93.  If not you can get a sampler such as an Akai 
2000 with 32m ram that will load the Pinder cd into the sampler, as 
I did back then.  You will need a SCSI cd reader that plugs into the 
sampler, and I have seen these Akai's recently on ebay for around 
$100. Thanks to recommendation from fellow member charel, I just 
purchased an EMU E4x TURBO on ebay for just over $300. and after 
loading the Pinder cd and running it thru the EMU, I challenge 
anyone to tell the difference from the real thing.  The Chamberlin 
strings are so clear if you listen closely you can actually hear the 
bow striking the strings.  Point is if you do a little research, 
ask "the group" for their recommendations, for a few dollars more 
you can have quality Tron sound with miminal compromise. 
It is just unfair that a product like this gets unleashed to unwary 
consumers, unfair to all the efforts of so many people to preserve 
and perpetuate this unique "machine". Doug  (proud owner of 
cumbersome machines and errant 1960's technology)

On 11/20/06, Doug Berg <caddyfam@...> wrote:
>

>
> After reading the recent posts, well...case closed.  Here are two
>  individuals who never heard the real sounds outside a recording
>  realm, and cannot afford the real thing.


Oi, I have played the "real thing" on a couple of occasion, though not
for, er, over ten years.

The complete m-tron thing cost me 89 uk pounds, it could have been
worse.  It's difficult to get a good feel for the quality of products
like this sometimes, b/c  one does read conflicting opinions of it,
plus the whole "nothing's as good as the real thing" tendency can
muddy the waters somewhat.

I guess I'd better save up for the pinder CD, unless something better
comes up in the interim.

Emu "ultra" series samplers are ridiculously good vfm at the moment, I agree.

".... you can still get the Pinder Cd for $199 which is what I paid
for mine back in 93."

Shameless plug...
I've still got one for sale....
see:  http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopic.php?t=37967&highlight=pinder
Bruce
--

I suppose another way of looking at the question of samples is to
ignore whether they sound like a mellotron, and ask do you like the
sounds they make?

After all I don't like the mellotron because it sounds like the
instrument on the tape, it doesn't and I would be disappointed if it
did.  But I just love the sound it makes.

I have the mtron samples, I was disappointed in the strings, I still
can't sound like Woolly Wolstenholme. However I did like the choir,
cello and clarinet.

Mark


--- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, tron@... wrote:

>
> I've had the opportunity to play about with the GMedia M-Tron VST and
> have to say that I'm not very impressed. Forget about anything to do
> with 'purism' here; the real problem is just how *shit* some of it
> sounds.
> 
> Most of the voices are very poorly recorded indeed. I've no idea whence
> these recordings were sourced, but an awful lot of them are very noisy -
> far noisier than the real thing. In fact the only time I've heard
> noisier Mellotrons is when they are in Streetly prior to being fixed or
> serviced. Was this noise added for effect or was the machine or tapes
> from which these recordings were made defective in some way?
> 
> I'd single the solo flute out for special attention here. Given the fact
> that the publicise this VST as a way of playing *those classic sounds*
> without the need for *cumbersome machines and errant 1960s technology*,
> you'd think that they would get on of the most famous voices spot-on.
> The trouble is that there is popping all over the middle range of the
> voice. I even went to the bother of dragging frame #1 out of the closet
> and doing an A/B test. No pops on the tapes, but popping all over the
> VST. The conclusion is therefore that either they added this or the
> tapes are buggered. Discuss.
> 
> On the subject of the flute, there is a good clue here that things are
> not all they seem anyway. As far as I know (I'm guessing to some extent
> here and working only on what I have heard) GMedia claim that this is a
> faithful recording of a real Mellotron, note-for-note, warts and all,
> etc. Hmmm. I disagree. Walking down from the top F, the most distinctive
> note on the solo flute is that 'Trio note' on the top D. You know - it
> sounds like a penny whistle giving a good shriek. It ain't there on the
> M-Tron. Neither is the second top F either - the one that 'warbles' a
> bit to itself. But if it's a verbatim account of the voice, why are they
> not there? Maybe they interpolate some of the samples. Maybe they didn't
> like the sound of those notes and tuned the ones below them up by a
> semitone. Whatever happened, it sure isn't a faithful recording of the
> whole sound.
> 
> And something else was odd about that sound too; chords sound a lot more
> 'musical' than on the real thing. Why is this? The obvious answer is
> that it has been tuned to some extent. Not all the way - not so much
> that Antares doesn't still laugh at it - but enough to make it obvious
> that the voices have been tampered with.
> 
> Hmmm again. I just checked with the Gmedia web site found at
> http://www.gmediamusic.com/gforce/m-tron/M-Tron.html and they say 'The
> M-Tron captures all of the character of the original instrument by
> sampling every note of every key and adhering to the eight second limit
> of each note. This way, not only do the resultant sounds ebb and flow,
> all the inherent and nostalgic magic of each sound is closely observed -
> minor imperfections and all'. I disagree. Still...at least they didn;t
> loop it.
> 
> Soldiering on I try out the Mk II violins. The shriller notes (*that*
> Bb, for example, but strangely enough not *that* F#) have been excluded
> here as well and are sonically almost identical (aside from pitch, of
> course) to their immediate neighbours. Where the blazes did they get
> this 'original instrument' from which they 'sampl[ed] every note'? I
> don't know how many Mellotrons I've played but *none of them* have ever
> sounded like this.
> 
> I did an A/B of the Mk II strings and got my frame bang in tune with the
> M-Tron, then did a run up of the notes. Sure enough, some samples are
> duller than the frame and some are definitely out of tune with it,
> particularly the bottom G and the first D and E. Methinks someone has
> been tuning some sounds here, and if they have done this then what else
> have they done? Added a few coughs and chair scrapes? :-) Of course
> tuned sets have existed for a good while now and it's possible that they
> took their samples from such a set...but who made them?
> 
> And on the subject of strings...the string section. If anything is
> designed to show them up, this is the one. I have the string section
> here on frame #2. You all know it. Big sound. Crunching sound. As we all
> know, it's a blend of cellos, violas and Mk II strings. Unfortunately,
> if you play it fast enough on the M-Tron you'd be forgiven for thinking
> it was nothing but cellos. The start times are *miles* off - the cellos
> start -way- before the other strings. Does anyone have a string section
> on their Trons that sounds like this? I sure don't. So how (again) is
> this a faithful sample...unless they put it together themselves, that
> is.
> 
> The choirs are hopeless. They are either muffled to the extent that you
> cannot tell the male and female voices apart (oh, and the shrill female
> voice on the top C has mysteriously vanished as well) or they are
> brightened up so much that there is no mid or bottom range left to speak
> of. They also feature a load of old Mk II voices and rhythms, none of
> which - heresy! heresy! they cry - I am mad keen on and frankly none of
> which I can see the average M-Tron user ever bothering with. The old
> french horns, trombones and organ (among others) sound like a bunch of
> sine waves subjected to slightly different filters.
> 
> And another thing that bothered me; key clicks. Some of the sounds have
> very faint key clicks at the start of them. Or something. That's not
> necessarily a *bad* thing (although it shows up a badly adjusted tape
> set) but the timbre of the click troubled me a little. It seemed to be
> strangely *the same* throughout. I recorded the sound into Sound Forge
> and cut out everything but the key click, then repeated it to try and
> make out what it is. It's hard to tell, but I am suspicious of it. It
> *sounds* like it's percussive white (or maybe pink) noise dumped at the
> start of the start of the sound to mimic a click. Like I say, I might be
> wrong here but it sounds very odd.
> 
> On the plus side the Mk II strings actually sound reasonably okay,
> missing, botched or alterted notes notwithstanding, and the brass is
> surprisingly punchy (although they have about four different brass
> voices, all of which sound very similar indeed) and the Chamberlin
> sounds are, though thin on the ground, very well-presented. It's also a
> lot better than the existing Mellotron VSTs such as the Nanotron (which
> has a flute that sounds *okay* but a string section and choir that sound
> horrendous) and the bizarre Mellow-Sounds which which is the only
> example I have ever seen or heard of a ten octave Mellotron with choirs
> ranging from Mysteron Bass up to something only dogs can make out. Faced
> with that level of competition the M-tron wins absolutely hands down. In
> fact, I find it very weird that no one has ever tried to really make a
> properly functioning Mellotron substitute until now, with the M-Tron and
> the Memotron. If you go to a keyboard shop you'll find a myriad plastic
> boxes, all of which are fitted with drawbars and come with Leslie
> emulators - only because people still demand a real B3 sound. Maybe the
> Mellotron market is more limited than this.
> 
> I realise that not everyone has the requisite thousands to spend on a
> real Mellotron, and for that the M-Tron fills a yawning gap, but even
> for the relative inexpense it would be nice to get something that does
> exactly as it advertises and does not fall several yards short. It's not
> impossible to sample every voice on a properly functioning Mellotron and
> use that as is, without making artistic or auditory judgements on the
> product that warrant editorial meddling with the sound. Maybe someone
> will do this one day. GMedia certainly have not, and that's a pity.
> 
> Mike Dickson (tron@...) M400 #996
> The Official Cynic of Streetly Electronics
> Streetly Sample Library http://www.blackcat.demon.co.uk/tron/
>

In a message dated 11/21/2006 6:16:24 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
mellotronmadness@... writes:

After  all I don't like the mellotron 


Mark,
 
Never put these words in this order ever again.

In the recent message <ek00jb+de0c@...>
you wrote...

> I suppose another way of looking at the question of samples is to
> ignore whether they sound like a mellotron, and ask do you like the
> sounds they make?

That's a good point. When anyone round here hears the Mk II violins, do
they really think of the sound of violins or do they think of the sound
of a Mellotron?

Mike Dickson (tron@...) M400 #996
The Official Cynic of Streetly Electronics
Streetly Sample Library http://www.blackcat.demon.co.uk/tron/

In the recent message <CheetahPRO_v2.18-n3_131486@...>
you wrote...

> > Nice review of the M-Tron. Probably too technical for Keyboard
> > Magazine though :) Did you demo the combined set of sounds?
>
> I'm not sure - it all comes in one box and seems to have a large number
> of sounds. I *think* it's the combined version.

Turns out I was wrong - I didn't have the third 'tape' set. I now do and
can report that they are *much* better, with a clearly revised Mk II
flute (less noisy and with all the screechy, whistly, warbliness thrown
in) and *far* better strings. They also do a few hybrids that are *sort
of interesting* but which sound a little cluttered. They also still
insist on adding some utter rubbish like SFX and 'violin and viola' (or
similar) which is absolutely horrible.

The St Peters Choirs are magnificent. They were obviously made from
separately recorded male and female choirs (like the M400 choir) as the
start times are a bit wonky in places, but the sound is really good.

I'm not about to sell up #996, but it's a substantial improvement on
their first efforts, though.

Mike Dickson (tron@...) M400 #996
The Official Cynic of Streetly Electronics
Streetly Sample Library http://www.blackcat.demon.co.uk/tron/

> > Where did they get the Birotron from?
>
> The documentation doesn't say, but there must be at least a few
> still kicking around.

There were seventeen of these made, were there not? Where are they all,
I wonder.

> My only experience with sound of the Bitotron (which was developed
> about a 20 minute drive from my house) is the M-Tron. I just assumed
> all Bitotrons sounded that bad.

Not at all. The one that Streetly had renovated sounded absolutely
brilliant. Weighed a fucking ton, but it sounded absolutely brilliant.
Had keys that seemed to be on leaf springs, but it sounded absolutely
brilliant. Clattered from the rear like a Morris 1000, but it sounded
absolutely brilliant.

> > Tangerine Dream? Interesting. Didn't Radiohead use TD's original
> tapes on 'Exit Music'?
>
> ???

I think they did, now that I think about it. I'm sure this is a bit of
Tronnic Lore given to me by M Smith.

Mike Dickson (tron@...) M400 #996
The Official Cynic of Streetly Electronics
Streetly Sample Library http://www.blackcat.demon.co.uk/tron/

In a message dated 22/11/2006 21:57:38 GMT Standard Time,  
tron@... writes:

That's  a good point. When anyone round here hears the Mk II violins, do
they  really think of the sound of violins or do they think of the sound
of a  Mellotron?



We think of your buttocks flapping in the cool Edinburgh air.
 
STREETLY ELECTRONICS - All Things Mellotronic

_www.mellotronics.co.uk_ (http://www.mellotronics.co.uk/) 
_www.mellotronics.com_ (http://www.mellotronics.com/) 
US  East Coast Agent - Jimmy Moore _jmoore6397@..._ 
(http://jmoore6397@.../) 
US West  Coast Agent - Paul Cox _pjc56@..._ 
(http://pjc56@.../)

YIKES!!! Now that's COLD man..

 

  _____  

From: Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of tronbros@...
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 2:01 PM
To: tron@...; Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Mellotronists] Re: GMedia M-Tron

 

In a message dated 22/11/2006 21:57:38 GMT Standard Time,
tron@... writes:

That's a good point. When anyone round here hears the Mk II violins, do
they really think of the sound of violins or do they think of the sound
of a Mellotron?

We think of your buttocks flapping in the cool Edinburgh air.

 

STREETLY ELECTRONICS - All Things Mellotronic
www.mellotronics. <http://www.mellotronics.co.uk/> co.uk
www.mellotronics. <http://www.mellotronics.com/> com
US East Coast Agent - Jimmy Moore jmoore6397@aol.
<http://jmoore6397@.../> com
US West Coast Agent - Paul Cox pjc56@earthlink.
<http://pjc56@.../> net

In a message dated 22/11/2006 22:42:39 GMT Standard Time,  jonesalley@... 
writes:

Martin - what do you think #127 will end up selling  for?


It's hard to say but it is pristine and in a rock memorabilia  sale so 
probably a lot plus the commission of 22% plus a full service.  Not  cheap but a 
gem.  I think there are some wealthy lookers!
 
Martin
 
STREETLY ELECTRONICS - All Things Mellotronic

_www.mellotronics.co.uk_ (http://www.mellotronics.co.uk/) 
_www.mellotronics.com_ (http://www.mellotronics.com/) 
US  East Coast Agent - Jimmy Moore _jmoore6397@..._ 
(http://jmoore6397@.../) 
US West  Coast Agent - Paul Cox _pjc56@..._ 
(http://pjc56@.../)

In a message dated 11/22/2006 4:57:41 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
tron@... writes:

That's  a good point. When anyone round here hears the Mk II violins, do
they  really think of the sound of violins or do they think of the sound
of a  Mellotron?



I think of a pillow case full of cats thrown into a tub full of cold water.  
Especially in the upper end. Anyone else? And God knows how much I love the  
sound.

In a message dated 11/22/2006 5:21:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
tron@... writes:

The St  Peters Choirs are magnificent. They were obviously made from
separately  recorded male and female choirs (like the M400 choir) as the
start times  are a bit wonky in places, but the sound is really good.

I'm not about  to sell up #996, but it's a substantial improvement on
their first efforts,  though.

Mike Dickson (_tron@...@blactr_ (mailto:tron@...) 
)  M400 #996



Mike has been drinking  so forgive him.

Frank,
 
 You make me laugh.
 
 fritz 

 -----Original Message-----
 From: lsf5275@...
 To: tron@...; Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com
 Sent: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 8:11 PM
 Subject: Re: [Mellotronists] Re: GMedia M-Tron
 
        In a message dated 11/22/2006 4:57:41 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, tron@... writes: That's a good point. When anyone round here hears the Mk II violins, do
 they really think of the sound of violins or do they think of the sound
 of a Mellotron?
   I think of a pillow case full of cats thrown into a tub full of cold water. Especially in the upper end. Anyone else? And God knows how much I love the sound.          
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL.  Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.

Interesting - I have the combined (full, or whatever) version, and it
doesn't specify of the expansion discs each sample set originally came
in, it's all just in one big folder.  I did notice that there are 2
different versions of the "watcher" sound, one of which is OK, one of
which is terrible.

Which sample sets would have been on the third disc?

On 11/22/06, tron@... <tron@...> wrote:

>  Turns out I was wrong - I didn't have the third 'tape' set. I now do and
>  can report that they are *much* better, with a clearly revised Mk II
>  flute (less noisy and with all the screechy, whistly, warbliness thrown
>  in) and *far* better strings. They also do a few hybrids that are *sort
>  of interesting* but which sound a little cluttered. They also still
>  insist on adding some utter rubbish like SFX and 'violin and viola' (or
>  similar) which is absolutely horrible.
>
>  The St Peters Choirs are magnificent. They were obviously made from
>  separately recorded male and female choirs (like the M400 choir) as the
>  start times are a bit wonky in places, but the sound is really good.

The original sets are here, along with their stories:

http://www.gmediamusic.com/gforce/m-tron/M-Tron.html
http://www.gmediamusic.com/gforce/m-tron/vol1/nutronsound.html
http://www.gmediamusic.com/gforce/m-tron/vol2/nutronsound2.html
http://www.gmediamusic.com/gforce/m-tron/vol3/vol3.html

Unfortunately, many of the names of the sounds don't accurately 
describe what they are. 

Two different versions of the Watcher sound? I bought the sets 
individually a few years ago and only got one Watcher sound.

Bernie

--- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, "Norman Fay" <vietgrove@...> 
wrote:
>
> Interesting - I have the combined (full, or whatever) version, and 
it
> doesn't specify of the expansion discs each sample set originally 
came
> in, it's all just in one big folder.  I did notice that there are 2
> different versions of the "watcher" sound, one of which is OK, one 
of
> which is terrible.
> 
> Which sample sets would have been on the third disc?
> 
> 
> On 11/22/06, tron@... <tron@...> wrote:
> 
> >  Turns out I was wrong - I didn't have the third 'tape' set. I 
now do and
> >  can report that they are *much* better, with a clearly revised 
Mk II
> >  flute (less noisy and with all the screechy, whistly, 
warbliness thrown
> >  in) and *far* better strings. They also do a few hybrids that 
are *sort
> >  of interesting* but which sound a little cluttered. They also 
still
> >  insist on adding some utter rubbish like SFX and 'violin and 
viola' (or
> >  similar) which is absolutely horrible.
> >
> >  The St Peters Choirs are magnificent. They were obviously made 
from
> >  separately recorded male and female choirs (like the M400 
choir) as the
> >  start times are a bit wonky in places, but the sound is really 
good.
>