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State-side glass

State-side glass

2002-06-21 by Jeff Caraway

Hi All,
The thought of getting the Marcos glass made stateside has been
mentioned and I think it deserves a little exploration.
I talked to Hayes at Wire Wheel about this with mixed results. He has
gotten Polycarbonate rear windows made in the past and would be willing
to get some more if that's what everyone wants. He also echoed the same
sentiments about the glass rears that Tad brought up. (Glass rears will
be harder to fit to every car, since you can't trim them)
I think we could still get glass ones made over here, but it seems to me
that we will have to supply the company of choice with an example of
both front and back class that is out of the car as patterns. 
Does anyone have the glass out of their car right now? 
And would anyone be willing to let their glass be the pattern?
Could a glass company possibly use "installed" glass as patterns?
 
Anyone care to add????
 
 
Jeff
#8052

RE: [MarcosManiacs] State-side glass

2002-06-21 by pauldransfield@iname.com

Hi Jeff,
 
Way back in 1976 when my car was first shipped over from England, the
windscreen was broken as the car was being offloaded from the ship when the
crane operator was a little clumsy. It was covered by insurance so I looked
into the cost of having a new one shipped over against having a local
manufacturer make one for me. At that time, the costs were comparable , so I
provided my car to the glass company and they used the existing glass to
make a mould. They made a few extra windscreens at the same time expecting
future sales but unfortunately there was never a call for one. A few years
ago, the company were reorganizing or something and they decided to get rid
of the mould and glass because they figured no-one would have any use for
them. Shortly thereafter, a local owner tried to source a windscreen and
discovered the tragedy. The cost of making a new mould for a one-off was
considered impractical and too costly and the idea died right there. 
 
Considering the number of screens now required, a glass manufacturer might
be persuaded to take on the task, but they would undoubtedly need to have
front and rear screens to use as templates. The trick would be in persuading
someone to loan their car for the purpose.
 
For what it's worth.
 
Paul Dransfield
3 litre Volvo
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Caraway [mailto:DovenWolf@...]
Sent: June 21, 2002 10:10 AM
To: MarcosManiacs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [MarcosManiacs] State-side glass


Hi All,
The thought of getting the Marcos glass made stateside has been mentioned
and I think it deserves a little exploration.
I talked to Hayes at Wire Wheel about this with mixed results. He has gotten
Polycarbonate rear windows made in the past and would be willing to get some
more if that's what everyone wants. He also echoed the same sentiments about
the glass rears that Tad brought up. (Glass rears will be harder to fit to
every car, since you can't trim them)
I think we could still get glass ones made over here, but it seems to me
that we will have to supply the company of choice with an example of both
front and back class that is out of the car as patterns. 
Does anyone have the glass out of their car right now? 
And would anyone be willing to let their glass be the pattern?
Could a glass company possibly use "installed" glass as patterns?
 
Anyone care to add????
 
 
Jeff
#8052
 
 
 


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RE: [MarcosManiacs] State-side glass

2002-06-21 by Jeff Caraway

Hi Paul,
Do you think that they would be more interested in doing a batch for us?
We can even add the local owner you mentioned in with us to beef up our
numbers.
I'm currently calling most of my local resources, but most Auto glass
guys here can only cut glass (which isn't going to work).
 
Jeff
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: pauldransfield@... [mailto:pauldransfield@...] 
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 10:34 AM
To: MarcosManiacs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [MarcosManiacs] State-side glass
 
Hi Jeff,
 
Way back in 1976 when my car was first shipped over from England, the
windscreen was broken as the car was being offloaded from the ship when
the crane operator was a little clumsy. It was covered by insurance so I
looked into the cost of having a new one shipped over against having a
local manufacturer make one for me. At that time, the costs were
comparable , so I provided my car to the glass company and they used the
existing glass to make a mould. They made a few extra windscreens at the
same time expecting future sales but unfortunately there was never a
call for one. A few years ago, the company were reorganizing or
something and they decided to get rid of the mould and glass because
they figured no-one would have any use for them. Shortly thereafter, a
local owner tried to source a windscreen and discovered the tragedy. The
cost of making a new mould for a one-off was considered impractical and
too costly and the idea died right there. 
 
Considering the number of screens now required, a glass manufacturer
might be persuaded to take on the task, but they would undoubtedly need
to have front and rear screens to use as templates. The trick would be
in persuading someone to loan their car for the purpose.
 
For what it's worth.
 
Paul Dransfield
3 litre Volvo
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Caraway [mailto:DovenWolf@carolina.rr.com]
Sent: June 21, 2002 10:10 AM
To: MarcosManiacs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [MarcosManiacs] State-side glass
Hi All,
The thought of getting the Marcos glass made stateside has been
mentioned and I think it deserves a little exploration.
I talked to Hayes at Wire Wheel about this with mixed results. He has
gotten Polycarbonate rear windows made in the past and would be willing
to get some more if that's what everyone wants. He also echoed the same
sentiments about the glass rears that Tad brought up. (Glass rears will
be harder to fit to every car, since you can't trim them)
I think we could still get glass ones made over here, but it seems to me
that we will have to supply the company of choice with an example of
both front and back class that is out of the car as patterns. 
Does anyone have the glass out of their car right now? 
And would anyone be willing to let their glass be the pattern?
Could a glass company possibly use "installed" glass as patterns?
 
Anyone care to add????
 
 
Jeff
#8052
 
 
 
 


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RE: [MarcosManiacs] State-side glass

2002-06-21 by pauldransfield@iname.com

Hi Jeff,
 
I could speak to the glass company to see if they would be willing to
undertake the task but, as my dad and his wife arrive from England today, I
won't have time to persue it further until the middle of July. In the
meantime, you should continue persuing the sourcing of the screens from
England so you know what the full range of options are.
 
Regards,
                Paul 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Caraway [mailto:DovenWolf@...]
Sent: June 21, 2002 11:00 AM
To: MarcosManiacs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [MarcosManiacs] State-side glass


Hi Paul,
Do you think that they would be more interested in doing a batch for us? We
can even add the local owner you mentioned in with us to beef up our
numbers.
I'm currently calling most of my local resources, but most Auto glass guys
here can only cut glass (which isn't going to work).
 
Jeff
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: pauldransfield@... [mailto:pauldransfield@...] 
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 10:34 AM
To: MarcosManiacs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [MarcosManiacs] State-side glass
 
Hi Jeff,
 
Way back in 1976 when my car was first shipped over from England, the
windscreen was broken as the car was being offloaded from the ship when the
crane operator was a little clumsy. It was covered by insurance so I looked
into the cost of having a new one shipped over against having a local
manufacturer make one for me. At that time, the costs were comparable , so I
provided my car to the glass company and they used the existing glass to
make a mould. They made a few extra windscreens at the same time expecting
future sales but unfortunately there was never a call for one. A few years
ago, the company were reorganizing or something and they decided to get rid
of the mould and glass because they figured no-one would have any use for
them. Shortly thereafter, a local owner tried to source a windscreen and
discovered the tragedy. The cost of making a new mould for a one-off was
considered impractical and too costly and the idea died right there. 
 
Considering the number of screens now required, a glass manufacturer might
be persuaded to take on the task, but they would undoubtedly need to have
front and rear screens to use as templates. The trick would be in persuading
someone to loan their car for the purpose.
 
For what it's worth.
 
Paul Dransfield
3 litre Volvo
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Caraway [mailto:DovenWolf@...]
Sent: June 21, 2002 10:10 AM
To: MarcosManiacs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [MarcosManiacs] State-side glass
Hi All,
The thought of getting the Marcos glass made stateside has been mentioned
and I think it deserves a little exploration.
I talked to Hayes at Wire Wheel about this with mixed results. He has gotten
Polycarbonate rear windows made in the past and would be willing to get some
more if that's what everyone wants. He also echoed the same sentiments about
the glass rears that Tad brought up. (Glass rears will be harder to fit to
every car, since you can't trim them)
I think we could still get glass ones made over here, but it seems to me
that we will have to supply the company of choice with an example of both
front and back class that is out of the car as patterns. 
Does anyone have the glass out of their car right now? 
And would anyone be willing to let their glass be the pattern?
Could a glass company possibly use "installed" glass as patterns?
 
Anyone care to add????
 
 
Jeff
#8052
 
 
 
 


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Re: [MarcosManiacs] State-side glass

2002-06-21 by Don Lattimer

The "new" owner I just located in southern CA told me if we had a glass
rear window that could be used as a mould that he knew of someone who
would make us plastic ones.  His feeling was that the weight of the
polycarbonate was an advantage (he's a racer).  He also stated that as a
racer he has used the newer poly type for all his windows.  He has found
that the newer polymers, etc. that comprise the windows are far superior
to what was available in the 60's and 70's.

In my case I would rather go with the poly in the rear just to be on the
safe side.  If we had them made in the states they would probably be
less expensive and could be replaced more often.  With glass it would
almost be a one-time deal and if it was broken upon
installation......then what?  I kinda like the flexibility (no pun
intended) of having the poly.

My $.02 for today.

Don Lattimer
#3m5759
Willits, CA
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Caraway" <DovenWolf@...>
To: <MarcosManiacs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 7:09 AM
Subject: [MarcosManiacs] State-side glass


Hi All,
The thought of getting the Marcos glass made stateside has been
mentioned and I think it deserves a little exploration.
I talked to Hayes at Wire Wheel about this with mixed results. He has
gotten Polycarbonate rear windows made in the past and would be willing
to get some more if that's what everyone wants. He also echoed the same
sentiments about the glass rears that Tad brought up. (Glass rears will
be harder to fit to every car, since you can't trim them)
I think we could still get glass ones made over here, but it seems to me
that we will have to supply the company of choice with an example of
both front and back class that is out of the car as patterns.
Does anyone have the glass out of their car right now?
And would anyone be willing to let their glass be the pattern?
Could a glass company possibly use "installed" glass as patterns?

Anyone care to add????


Jeff
#8052

RE: [MarcosManiacs] State-side glass

2002-06-21 by Ronald McLeod

Jeff . . .
Forget the glass installers. What you need is a glass manufacturer. If you can get hold of an industrial directory, they are usually listed there. Paul Dransfield and I looked into this a couple of years ago, but for 1 windscreen it wasn't cost-effective.

Regards . . . Ron McLeod
1970 Marcos Mantis P8/5858

-----Original Message-----
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Jeff Caraway [mailto:DovenWolf@...]
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 11:00 AM
To: MarcosManiacs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [MarcosManiacs] State-side glass

Hi Paul,

Do you think that they would be more interested in doing a batch for us? We can even add the local owner you mentioned in with us to beef up our numbers.

I'm currently calling most of my local resources, but most Auto glass guys here can only cut glass (which isn't going to work).

Jeff

-----Original Message-----
From: pauldransfield@... [mailto:pauldransfield@...]
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 10:34 AM
To: MarcosManiacs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [MarcosManiacs] State-side glass

Hi Jeff,

Way back in 1976 when my car was first shipped over from England, the windscreen was broken as the car was being offloaded from the ship when the crane operator was a little clumsy. It was covered by insurance so I looked into the cost of having a new one shipped over against having a local manufacturer make one for me. At that time, the costs were comparable , so I provided my car to the glass company and they used the existing glass to make a mould. They made a few extra windscreens at the same time expecting future sales but unfortunately there was never a call for one. A few years ago, the company were reorganizing or something and they decided to get rid of the mould and glass because they figured no-one would have any use for them. Shortly thereafter, a local owner tried to source a windscreen and discovered the tragedy. The cost of making a new mould for a one-off was considered impractical and too costly and the idea died right there.

Considering the number of screens now required, a glass manufacturer might be persuaded to take on the task, but they would undoubtedly need to have front and rear screens to use as templates. The trick would be in persuading someone to loan their car for the purpose.

For what it's worth.

Paul Dransfield

3 litre Volvo

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Caraway [mailto:DovenWolf@...]
Sent: June 21, 2002 10:10 AM
To: MarcosManiacs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [MarcosManiacs] State-side glass

Hi All,

The thought of getting the Marcos glass made stateside has been mentioned and I think it deserves a little exploration.

I talked to Hayes at Wire Wheel about this with mixed results. He has gotten Polycarbonate rear windows made in the past and would be willing to get some more if that's what everyone wants. He also echoed the same sentiments about the glass rears that Tad brought up. (Glass rears will be harder to fit to every car, since you can't trim them)

I think we could still get glass ones made over here, but it seems to me that we will have to supply the company of choice with an example of both front and back class that is out of the car as patterns.

Does anyone have the glass out of their car right now?

And would anyone be willing to let their glass be the pattern?

Could a glass company possibly use "installed" glass as patterns?

Anyone care to add????

Jeff

#8052



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RE: [MarcosManiacs] State-side glass

2002-06-21 by Jeff Caraway

Hi Don,
If everyone if agreeable to the Polycarbonate (which I have in my car
and really can't tell that it isn't glass until I thump it), then we
could source these through Hayes.
I kind of agree that the flexibility might be better since these cars
are so "individual".
 
Jeff
#8052
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Lattimer [mailto:donlattimer@...] 
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 11:09 AM
To: MarcosManiacs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MarcosManiacs] State-side glass
 
The "new" owner I just located in southern CA told me if we had a glass
rear window that could be used as a mould that he knew of someone who
would make us plastic ones.  His feeling was that the weight of the
polycarbonate was an advantage (he's a racer).  He also stated that as a
racer he has used the newer poly type for all his windows.  He has found
that the newer polymers, etc. that comprise the windows are far superior
to what was available in the 60's and 70's.

In my case I would rather go with the poly in the rear just to be on the
safe side.  If we had them made in the states they would probably be
less expensive and could be replaced more often.  With glass it would
almost be a one-time deal and if it was broken upon
installation......then what?  I kinda like the flexibility (no pun
intended) of having the poly.

My $.02 for today.

Don Lattimer
#3m5759
Willits, CA


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Caraway" <DovenWolf@...>
To: <MarcosManiacs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 7:09 AM
Subject: [MarcosManiacs] State-side glass


Hi All,
The thought of getting the Marcos glass made stateside has been
mentioned and I think it deserves a little exploration.
I talked to Hayes at Wire Wheel about this with mixed results. He has
gotten Polycarbonate rear windows made in the past and would be willing
to get some more if that's what everyone wants. He also echoed the same
sentiments about the glass rears that Tad brought up. (Glass rears will
be harder to fit to every car, since you can't trim them)
I think we could still get glass ones made over here, but it seems to me
that we will have to supply the company of choice with an example of
both front and back class that is out of the car as patterns.
Does anyone have the glass out of their car right now?
And would anyone be willing to let their glass be the pattern?
Could a glass company possibly use "installed" glass as patterns?

Anyone care to add????


Jeff
#8052










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Re: State-side glass

2002-06-21 by mark_saxby

A flexible rear screen would also be more original as I'm 99% sure 
glass was never offered on the pre-80 cars. Certainly virtually every 
road test I've seen makes specific comment on the perspex rear screen.

Cheers,

Mark

--- In MarcosManiacs@y..., "Jeff Caraway" <DovenWolf@c...> wrote:
> Hi Don,
> If everyone if agreeable to the Polycarbonate (which I have in my 
car
> and really can't tell that it isn't glass until I thump it), then we
> could source these through Hayes.
> I kind of agree that the flexibility might be better since these 
cars
> are so "individual".
>  
> Jeff
> #8052
>  
>  
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Don Lattimer [mailto:donlattimer@p...] 
> Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 11:09 AM
> To: MarcosManiacs@y...
> Subject: Re: [MarcosManiacs] State-side glass
>  
> The "new" owner I just located in southern CA told me if we had a 
glass
> rear window that could be used as a mould that he knew of someone 
who
> would make us plastic ones.  His feeling was that the weight of the
> polycarbonate was an advantage (he's a racer).  He also stated that 
as a
> racer he has used the newer poly type for all his windows.  He has 
found
> that the newer polymers, etc. that comprise the windows are far 
superior
> to what was available in the 60's and 70's.
> 
> In my case I would rather go with the poly in the rear just to be 
on the
> safe side.  If we had them made in the states they would probably be
> less expensive and could be replaced more often.  With glass it 
would
> almost be a one-time deal and if it was broken upon
> installation......then what?  I kinda like the flexibility (no pun
> intended) of having the poly.
> 
> My $.02 for today.
> 
> Don Lattimer
> #3m5759
> Willits, CA
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Caraway" <DovenWolf@c...>
> To: <MarcosManiacs@y...>
> Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 7:09 AM
> Subject: [MarcosManiacs] State-side glass
> 
> 
> Hi All,
> The thought of getting the Marcos glass made stateside has been
> mentioned and I think it deserves a little exploration.
> I talked to Hayes at Wire Wheel about this with mixed results. He 
has
> gotten Polycarbonate rear windows made in the past and would be 
willing
> to get some more if that's what everyone wants. He also echoed the 
same
> sentiments about the glass rears that Tad brought up. (Glass rears 
will
> be harder to fit to every car, since you can't trim them)
> I think we could still get glass ones made over here, but it seems 
to me
> that we will have to supply the company of choice with an example of
> both front and back class that is out of the car as patterns.
> Does anyone have the glass out of their car right now?
> And would anyone be willing to let their glass be the pattern?
> Could a glass company possibly use "installed" glass as patterns?
> 
> Anyone care to add????
> 
> 
> Jeff
> #8052
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> 
> 
> ADVERTISEMENT
>  
> 
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07
> 490552:HM/A=979989/R=0/*http:/www.fastweb.com/ib/yahoo-79f> 
> 
>  
> <http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?
M=178320.2150041.3600347.1829184/D=egrou
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RE: [MarcosManiacs] State-side glass

2002-06-21 by David Skora

I have installed the rear window on my 66 myself. I am so glad it's
plastic. If it were glass, I wouldn't try it. Also, I am afraid it would
be very hard to find a professional to install a glass one. I had a hard
time finding an installer to put both front and rear glass into my 70
XJ6. 
Dave (5006).
BTW I would be interested in a Poly rear window.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Lattimer [mailto:donlattimer@...] 
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 8:09 AM
To: MarcosManiacs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MarcosManiacs] State-side glass

The "new" owner I just located in southern CA told me if we had a glass
rear window that could be used as a mould that he knew of someone who
would make us plastic ones.  His feeling was that the weight of the
polycarbonate was an advantage (he's a racer).  He also stated that as a
racer he has used the newer poly type for all his windows.  He has found
that the newer polymers, etc. that comprise the windows are far superior
to what was available in the 60's and 70's.

In my case I would rather go with the poly in the rear just to be on the
safe side.  If we had them made in the states they would probably be
less expensive and could be replaced more often.  With glass it would
almost be a one-time deal and if it was broken upon
installation......then what?  I kinda like the flexibility (no pun
intended) of having the poly.

My $.02 for today.

Don Lattimer
#3m5759
Willits, CA


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Caraway" <DovenWolf@...>
To: <MarcosManiacs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 7:09 AM
Subject: [MarcosManiacs] State-side glass


Hi All,
The thought of getting the Marcos glass made stateside has been
mentioned and I think it deserves a little exploration.
I talked to Hayes at Wire Wheel about this with mixed results. He has
gotten Polycarbonate rear windows made in the past and would be willing
to get some more if that's what everyone wants. He also echoed the same
sentiments about the glass rears that Tad brought up. (Glass rears will
be harder to fit to every car, since you can't trim them)
I think we could still get glass ones made over here, but it seems to me
that we will have to supply the company of choice with an example of
both front and back class that is out of the car as patterns.
Does anyone have the glass out of their car right now?
And would anyone be willing to let their glass be the pattern?
Could a glass company possibly use "installed" glass as patterns?

Anyone care to add????


Jeff
#8052








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Re: [MarcosManiacs] State-side glass

2002-06-22 by mikeyrog@aol.com

Dave,

You are absolutely correct.  I did install a glass rear window in my 69.  It 
was a nightmare.  The glass was ordered from England.  I was unable to find 
anyone who would install it locally so I tried it with a little help from my 
friends.  The glass didn't fit well so we had to do some fiberglass buildup 
to fill in the gaps.  Even after careful measurements and alot of fiberglass 
work, installing the glass was very difficult.  It went OK installing the 
rubber seal, but when we put the spreader in to tighten the glass the lower 
left corner of the glass cracked.  Too much thumb pressure I quess.  It is 
not very noticable from a distance so I just left it alone.    

The polycarbonate glass would be alot more forgiving.  I have to ask if there 
are different sizes for different models or years?

Michael Rogers
1969 1600 GT #5241

RE: [MarcosManiacs] State-side glass

2002-06-24 by Jeff Caraway

Hi Michael,
Thanks for your insights here!
From what we have learned so far, there is only one size of rear for all
the different models.
 
Jeff
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: mikeyrog@... [mailto:mikeyrog@...] 
Sent: Saturday, June 22, 2002 12:53 PM
To: MarcosManiacs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MarcosManiacs] State-side glass
 
Dave, 

You are absolutely correct.  I did install a glass rear window in my 69.
It was a nightmare.  The glass was ordered from England.  I was unable
to find anyone who would install it locally so I tried it with a little
help from my friends.  The glass didn't fit well so we had to do some
fiberglass buildup to fill in the gaps.  Even after careful measurements
and alot of fiberglass work, installing the glass was very difficult.
It went OK installing the rubber seal, but when we put the spreader in
to tighten the glass the lower left corner of the glass cracked.  Too
much thumb pressure I quess.  It is not very noticable from a distance
so I just left it alone.     

The polycarbonate glass would be alot more forgiving.  I have to ask if
there are different sizes for different models or years? 

Michael Rogers 
1969 1600 GT #5241 
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State-side glass - update

2002-06-24 by Jeff Caraway

Hi All,
I received a reply from Hayes.
He can't source the headlight covers as I thought he could. SORRY! That
was my fault for getting hopes up there!
He can source the polycarbonate rears though, and I have him checking
prices for us.
 
He also made a point that I thought was well worth passing along:
 
"For your consideration:  Alot of the Marcos' in the US may have their
original plastic rear windows which are clouded and scratched with age,
(25+ years). These cars were probably used as "real" cars in their early
life and sat outside without the care that they receive now. Marcos are
now collector cars and are more pampered and stored inside. We can
expect the polycarbonate rear windows to hold up much better and longer
in this new perspective."
 
Please LMK what everyone thinks.
 
Jeff

Re: State-side glass - update

2002-06-24 by dbarton62

Hi Jeff,
    I have no problem with the poly rear window as my car when 
finished will be in a garage whenever it is not being driven......
    Also if the rear "glass" windows are as far out in shape compared
 to the frame as my front glass is then using poly is a more "prudent" 
way to go.....as far as the light covers go "Heritage" has them in 
stock.
        Cheers Dave#5577 






--- In MarcosManiacs@y..., "Jeff Caraway" <DovenWolf@c...> wrote:
> Hi All,
> I received a reply from Hayes.
> He can't source the headlight covers as I thought he could. SORRY! 
That
> was my fault for getting hopes up there!
> He can source the polycarbonate rears though, and I have him 
checking
> prices for us.
>  
> He also made a point that I thought was well worth passing along:
>  
> "For your consideration:  Alot of the Marcos' in the US may have 
their
> original plastic rear windows which are clouded and scratched with 
age,
> (25+ years). These cars were probably used as "real" cars in their 
early
> life and sat outside without the care that they receive now. Marcos 
are
> now collector cars and are more pampered and stored inside. We can
> expect the polycarbonate rear windows to hold up much better and 
longer
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> in this new perspective."
>  
> Please LMK what everyone thinks.
>  
> Jeff

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