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what is sulfate of zinc and acidulated water and saturated copper sulfate crystals ?

what is sulfate of zinc and acidulated water and saturated copper sulfate crystals ?

2017-01-16 by Rob

what is sulfate of zinc and acidulated water and saturated copper 
sulfate crystals ?
Do we have any chemists out there?

I found an old time article how to make a battery and it specified

  sulfate of zinc and acidulated water and saturated copper sulfate crystals

http://www.learnmorsecode.com/regen2/battery02.jpg

The article said to use ZINC SULFATE
or
ACIDULATED water.

So I got look up ZINC SULFATE on the web and is says we can buy 220mg 
zinc sulfate capsules...to eat.
huh?!!??
edible batteries?

Zinc Sulfate (220mg) - 100 Capsules
Zinc sulfate is an inorganic compound and dietary supplement. As a 
supplement it is used to treat zinc deficiency


but hey...it did say "OR"
and when I look up acidulated water it said

wiki:
Acidulated water is water that an acid has been added to it, usually 
lemon juice, lime juice or vinegar. Citric acid and ascorbic acid can 
also be used.

  Acidulated water can be made by combining 1.5 tablespoons vinegar or 3 
tablespoons lemon juice.

sooooo...... OK... this doesn't sound real toxic or dangerous to show 
and tell kids battery chemistry....

AND THEN
there is the saturated copper sulfate....
which is readily available at th eharware store
  ROOT KILL copper sulfate pentahydrate 99%
and instructions on the web say:

First, you need a saturated copper sulfate solution so the crystals can 
form as the liquid evaporates. All you need to do to make the solution 
is to stir copper sulfate into very hot water until no more will 
dissolve. There are two ways to grow the crystals.Apr 26, 2014
How To Grow Blue Copper Sulfate Crystals - Science Notes and Projects
https://sciencenotes.org/how-to-grow-blue-copper-sulfate-crystals/

OR
just buy 10 pounds of crystals from a seed supply house for $32.

So is this feasible or would parents be pissed if they knew their kids 
were near these chemicals?

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] what is sulfate of zinc and acidulated water and saturated copper sulfate crystals ?

2017-01-16 by Harvey Altstadter

Rob,

For a battery demonstration, stick to the lemon juice.

You might want to stay away from the copper sulfate- 
http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/carbaryl-dicrotophos/copper-sulfate-ext.html

Harvey
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 1/16/2017 12:22 AM, Rob roomberg@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:
>
> what is sulfate of zinc and acidulated water and saturated copper 
> sulfate crystals ?
> Do we have any chemists out there?
>
> I found an old time article how to make a battery and it specified
>
>  sulfate of zinc and acidulated water and saturated copper sulfate 
> crystals
>
> http://www.learnmorsecode.com/regen2/battery02.jpg
>
> The article said to use ZINC SULFATE
> or
> ACIDULATED water.
>
> So I got look up ZINC SULFATE on the web and is says we can buy 220mg 
> zinc sulfate capsules...to eat.
> huh?!!??
> edible batteries?
>
> Zinc Sulfate (220mg) - 100 Capsules
> Zinc sulfate is an inorganic compound and dietary supplement. As a 
> supplement it is used to treat zinc deficiency
>
>
> but hey...it did say "OR"
> and when I look up acidulated water it said
>
> wiki:
> Acidulated water is water that an acid has been added to it, usually 
> lemon juice, lime juice or vinegar. Citric acid and ascorbic acid can 
> also be used.
>
>  Acidulated water can be made by combining 1.5 tablespoons vinegar or 
> 3 tablespoons lemon juice.
>
> sooooo...... OK... this doesn't sound real toxic or dangerous to show 
> and tell kids battery chemistry....
>
> AND THEN
> there is the saturated copper sulfate....
> which is readily available at th eharware store
>  ROOT KILL copper sulfate pentahydrate 99%
> and instructions on the web say:
>
> First, you need a saturated copper sulfate solution so the crystals 
> can form as the liquid evaporates. All you need to do to make the 
> solution is to stir copper sulfate into very hot water until no more 
> will dissolve. There are two ways to grow the crystals.Apr 26, 2014
> How To Grow Blue Copper Sulfate Crystals - Science Notes and Projects
> https://sciencenotes.org/how-to-grow-blue-copper-sulfate-crystals/
>
> OR
> just buy 10 pounds of crystals from a seed supply house for $32.
>
> So is this feasible or would parents be pissed if they knew their kids 
> were near these chemicals?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] what is sulfate of zinc and acidulated water and saturated copper sulfate crystals ?

2017-01-16 by Rob

Thanks for the link.
What this says to me is that if I build this battery and seal it as the 
instructions described then its not
a big toxic hazard waiting to explode.
BUT
it does say it is pretty darn toxic stuff than can kill you if you eat it.
So don't eat it.

Wear gloves and goggles to handle it.




On 01/16/2017 02:28 AM, Harvey Altstadter hrconsult@... 
[Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Rob,
>
> For a battery demonstration, stick to the lemon juice.
>
> You might want to stay away from the copper sulfate- 
> http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/carbaryl-dicrotophos/copper-sulfate-ext.html
>
> Harvey
> On 1/16/2017 12:22 AM, Rob roomberg@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:
>>
>> what is sulfate of zinc and acidulated water and saturated copper 
>> sulfate crystals ?
>> Do we have any chemists out there?
>>
>> I found an old time article how to make a battery and it specified
>>
>>  sulfate of zinc and acidulated water and saturated copper sulfate 
>> crystals
>>
>> http://www.learnmorsecode.com/regen2/battery02.jpg
>>
>> The article said to use ZINC SULFATE
>> or
>> ACIDULATED water.
>>
>> So I got look up ZINC SULFATE on the web and is says we can buy 220mg 
>> zinc sulfate capsules...to eat.
>> huh?!!??
>> edible batteries?
>>
>> Zinc Sulfate (220mg) - 100 Capsules
>> Zinc sulfate is an inorganic compound and dietary supplement. As a 
>> supplement it is used to treat zinc deficiency
>>
>>
>> but hey...it did say "OR"
>> and when I look up acidulated water it said
>>
>> wiki:
>> Acidulated water is water that an acid has been added to it, usually 
>> lemon juice, lime juice or vinegar. Citric acid and ascorbic acid can 
>> also be used.
>>
>>  Acidulated water can be made by combining 1.5 tablespoons vinegar or 
>> 3 tablespoons lemon juice.
>>
>> sooooo...... OK... this doesn't sound real toxic or dangerous to show 
>> and tell kids battery chemistry....
>>
>> AND THEN
>> there is the saturated copper sulfate....
>> which is readily available at th eharware store
>>  ROOT KILL copper sulfate pentahydrate 99%
>> and instructions on the web say:
>>
>> First, you need a saturated copper sulfate solution so the crystals 
>> can form as the liquid evaporates. All you need to do to make the 
>> solution is to stir copper sulfate into very hot water until no more 
>> will dissolve. There are two ways to grow the crystals.Apr 26, 2014
>> How To Grow Blue Copper Sulfate Crystals - Science Notes and Projects
>> https://sciencenotes.org/how-to-grow-blue-copper-sulfate-crystals/
>>
>> OR
>> just buy 10 pounds of crystals from a seed supply house for $32.
>>
>> So is this feasible or would parents be pissed if they knew their 
>> kids were near these chemicals?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] what is sulfate of zinc and acidulated water and saturated copper sulfate crystals ?

2017-01-16 by keith printy

I remember my younger days where we had a kit from remco called electro chemistry. They sold others also but they had containers,zinc strips and copper strips  but used salt water for electrolyte and only produced about .3 volt
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] 
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 3:25 AM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] what is sulfate of zinc and acidulated water and saturated copper sulfate crystals ?

 

  

Thanks for the link.
What this says to me is that if I build this battery and seal it as the instructions described then its not
a big toxic hazard waiting to explode.
BUT
it does say it is pretty darn toxic stuff than can kill you if you eat it.
So don't eat it.

Wear gloves and goggles to handle it.
  




On 01/16/2017 02:28 AM, Harvey Altstadter hrconsult@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:

  

Rob,

For a battery demonstration, stick to the lemon juice.

You might want to stay away from the copper sulfate- http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/carbaryl-dicrotophos/copper-sulfate-ext.html

Harvey

On 1/16/2017 12:22 AM, Rob roomberg@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:

  

what is sulfate of zinc and acidulated water and saturated copper sulfate crystals ?
Do we have any chemists out there?

I found an old time article how to make a battery and it specified

 sulfate of zinc and acidulated water and saturated copper sulfate crystals

http://www.learnmorsecode.com/regen2/battery02.jpg

The article said to use ZINC SULFATE 
or
ACIDULATED water.

So I got look up ZINC SULFATE on the web and is says we can buy 220mg zinc sulfate capsules...to eat.
huh?!!??
edible batteries?

Zinc Sulfate (220mg) - 100 Capsules
Zinc sulfate is an inorganic compound and dietary supplement. As a supplement it is used to treat zinc deficiency 


but hey...it did say "OR"
and when I look up acidulated water it said

wiki:
Acidulated water is water that an acid has been added to it, usually lemon juice, lime juice or vinegar. Citric acid and ascorbic acid can also be used.

 Acidulated water can be made by combining 1.5 tablespoons vinegar or 3 tablespoons lemon juice.

sooooo...... OK... this doesn't sound real toxic or dangerous to show and tell kids battery chemistry....

AND THEN
there is the saturated copper sulfate....
which is readily available at th eharware store
 ROOT KILL copper sulfate pentahydrate 99%
and instructions on the web say:

First, you need a saturated copper sulfate solution so the crystals can form as the liquid evaporates. All you need to do to make the solution is to stir copper sulfate into very hot water until no more will dissolve. There are two ways to grow the crystals.Apr 26, 2014
How To Grow Blue Copper Sulfate Crystals - Science Notes and Projects
https://sciencenotes.org/how-to-grow-blue-copper-sulfate-crystals/

OR 
just buy 10 pounds of crystals from a seed supply house for $32.

So is this feasible or would parents be pissed if they knew their kids were near these chemicals?

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] what is sulfate of zinc and acidulated water and saturated copper sulfate crystals ?

2017-01-16 by Jean-Paul Louis

Hi Rob,

Beside having fun experimenting, what would be the use of such awfully low performance battery? the article claims high internal resistance and 0.25V capabilty.

It looks like this battery uses zinc and copper ions to work. I think that there are other ways to make a much better battery with these parameters. But picking those two metallic ions does not explain the low voltage of said battery. 
According to the website at http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/electrode-potential-d_482.html, Zinc potential is -0.76V and Copper is +0.34V, so a good battery with those elements should have a max of 1.1V, with an average probably around 1V, which is a lot better than the 0.25V advertized.

Just because you find articles on the Internet, that’s not a proof of good engineering practices.
There is a lot of garbage in the Internet, but there is also a lot of good stuff. It is just not easy to find the right ones.

As a side note, you can see on the table that lithium has a potential of -3.04V, which explains why lithium ion batteries are the hot topic.

Just a few thoughts,
Jean-Paul
N1JPL
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> On Jan 16, 2017, at 2:22 AM, Rob roomberg@... [Homebrew_PCBs] <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> what is sulfate of zinc and acidulated water and saturated copper sulfate crystals ?
> Do we have any chemists out there?
> 
> I found an old time article how to make a battery and it specified
> 
>  sulfate of zinc and acidulated water and saturated copper sulfate crystals
> 
> http://www.learnmorsecode.com/regen2/battery02.jpg
> 
> The article said to use ZINC SULFATE 
> or
> ACIDULATED water.
> 
> So I got look up ZINC SULFATE on the web and is says we can buy 220mg zinc sulfate capsules...to eat.
> huh?!!??
> edible batteries?
> 
> Zinc Sulfate (220mg) - 100 Capsules
> Zinc sulfate is an inorganic compound and dietary supplement. As a supplement it is used to treat zinc deficiency 
> 
> 
> but hey...it did say "OR"
> and when I look up acidulated water it said
> 
> wiki:
> Acidulated water is water that an acid has been added to it, usually lemon juice, lime juice or vinegar. Citric acid and ascorbic acid can also be used.
> 
>  Acidulated water can be made by combining 1.5 tablespoons vinegar or 3 tablespoons lemon juice.
> 
> sooooo...... OK... this doesn't sound real toxic or dangerous to show and tell kids battery chemistry....
> 
> AND THEN
> there is the saturated copper sulfate....
> which is readily available at th eharware store
>  ROOT KILL copper sulfate pentahydrate 99%
> and instructions on the web say:
> 
> First, you need a saturated copper sulfate solution so the crystals can form as the liquid evaporates. All you need to do to make the solution is to stir copper sulfate into very hot water until no more will dissolve. There are two ways to grow the crystals.Apr 26, 2014
> How To Grow Blue Copper Sulfate Crystals - Science Notes and Projects
> https://sciencenotes.org/how-to-grow-blue-copper-sulfate-crystals/
> 
> OR 
> just buy 10 pounds of crystals from a seed supply house for $32.
> 
> So is this feasible or would parents be pissed if they knew their kids were near these chemicals?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

what is sulfate of zinc and acidulated water and saturated copper sulfate crystals ? the net

2017-01-17 by Rob

RE:
Just because you find articles on the Internet, that\u2019s not a proof of 
good engineering practices.
There is a lot of garbage in the Internet, but there is also a lot of 
good stuff. It is just not easy to find the right ones.


I do agree that the internet is full of lots of unworthy projects 
described in detail.
BUT
I built a radio for $7 that heard France CW ... and I would NEVER have 
done that if I
had not sumbled across HOW to do that on the internet.

So
finding this battery article and asking the chemistry questions is just 
my way of
getting a few opinions and hopefully some facts or suggestions HOW to 
build a
battery that can actually be used to run a tube radio using readily 
available and
not so exotic materials.













On 01/16/2017 02:04 PM, Jean-Paul Louis louijp@... [Homebrew_PCBs] 
wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Hi Rob,
>
> Beside having fun experimenting, what would be the use of such awfully 
> low performance battery? the article claims high internal resistance 
> and 0.25V capabilty.
>
> It looks like this battery uses zinc and copper ions to work. I think 
> that there are other ways to make a much better battery with these 
> parameters. But picking those two metallic ions does not explain the 
> low voltage of said battery.
> According to the website at 
> http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/electrode-potential-d_482.html, Zinc 
> potential is -0.76V and Copper is +0.34V, so a good battery with those 
> elements should have a max of 1.1V, with an average probably around 
> 1V, which is a lot better than the 0.25V advertized.
>
> Just because you find articles on the Internet, that\u2019s not a proof of 
> good engineering practices.
> There is a lot of garbage in the Internet, but there is also a lot of 
> good stuff. It is just not easy to find the right ones.
>
> As a side note, you can see on the table that lithium has a potential 
> of -3.04V, which explains why lithium ion batteries are the hot topic.
>
> Just a few thoughts,
> Jean-Paul
> N1JPL
>
> > On Jan 16, 2017, at 2:22 AM, Rob roomberg@... [Homebrew_PCBs] 
> <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> >
> > what is sulfate of zinc and acidulated water and saturated copper 
> sulfate crystals ?
> > Do we have any chemists out there?
> >
> > I found an old time article how to make a battery and it specified
> >
> > sulfate of zinc and acidulated water and saturated copper sulfate 
> crystals
> >
> > http://www.learnmorsecode.com/regen2/battery02.jpg
> >
> > The article said to use ZINC SULFATE
> > or
> > ACIDULATED water.
> >
> > So I got look up ZINC SULFATE on the web and is says we can buy 
> 220mg zinc sulfate capsules...to eat.
> > huh?!!??
> > edible batteries?
> >
> > Zinc Sulfate (220mg) - 100 Capsules
> > Zinc sulfate is an inorganic compound and dietary supplement. As a 
> supplement it is used to treat zinc deficiency
> >
> >
> > but hey...it did say "OR"
> > and when I look up acidulated water it said
> >
> > wiki:
> > Acidulated water is water that an acid has been added to it, usually 
> lemon juice, lime juice or vinegar. Citric acid and ascorbic acid can 
> also be used.
> >
> > Acidulated water can be made by combining 1.5 tablespoons vinegar or 
> 3 tablespoons lemon juice.
> >
> > sooooo...... OK... this doesn't sound real toxic or dangerous to 
> show and tell kids battery chemistry....
> >
> > AND THEN
> > there is the saturated copper sulfate....
> > which is readily available at th eharware store
> > ROOT KILL copper sulfate pentahydrate 99%
> > and instructions on the web say:
> >
> > First, you need a saturated copper sulfate solution so the crystals 
> can form as the liquid evaporates. All you need to do to make the 
> solution is to stir copper sulfate into very hot water until no more 
> will dissolve. There are two ways to grow the crystals.Apr 26, 2014
> > How To Grow Blue Copper Sulfate Crystals - Science Notes and Projects
> > https://sciencenotes.org/how-to-grow-blue-copper-sulfate-crystals/
> >
> > OR
> > just buy 10 pounds of crystals from a seed supply house for $32.
> >
> > So is this feasible or would parents be pissed if they knew their 
> kids were near these chemicals?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] what is sulfate of zinc and acidulated water and saturated copper sulfate crystals ?

2017-01-17 by Rob

I stumbled on this perfect answer:

What Happens in a Battery if Zinc Sulfate Is Mixed With Copper Sulfate?
by Serm Murmson

Chemical reactions can generate electrical energy from the exchange of 
electrons. A cell that uses the electrical current from a spontaneous 
chemical reaction is called a galvanic or voltaic cell. A battery is an 
example of such a cell. A battery is specifically constructed to ensure 
that its chemical reactions occur in a controlled and reliable manner.

The Nature of the Chemical Reaction
Batteries generate electrical current due to the exchange of electrons 
in a spontaneous reduction-oxidation, or redox, reaction. In a redox 
reaction, one element loses electrons: it is oxidized. Another element 
gains these electrons: it is reduced. The elements used in a battery are 
selected due to the difference in their oxidation and reduction 
potentials. For example, zinc loses electrons more readily than copper. 
A redox reaction will be spontaneous if the difference in the relevant 
cell potentials is positive: the system will move to release energy.
The Construction of a Battery

The cathode is the site at which reduction occurs in a battery. The 
anode is the site at which oxidation occurs. In many voltaic cells, the 
cathode and anode are made of the respective solid metals involved in 
the redox reaction. In order to provide ions necessary for the chemical 
reaction to take place, the anode and cathode are suspended in solutions 
containing the respective metal ions. These two solutions, called 
electrolytes, are connected via a membrane or barrier. In some cells 
this is called a salt bridge. The function of the salt bridge is to 
allow some ions to move while keeping others isolated in the respective 
electrolytic solutions. Once the anode and cathode are connected via a 
wire, the electrical potential difference will cause the reaction to 
occur. Electrons will flow over the wire.
The Zinc and Copper Battery

In a zinc-and-copper battery, the chemical reaction involves the 
transfer of electrons from solid zinc to copper ions. The zinc is 
therefore the anode; solid zinc is oxidized. The copper is the cathode; 
copper ions are reduced. The electrolytic solutions can be zinc sulfate 
and copper sulfate. When the zinc is oxidized, new zinc ions fall into 
the solution. When the copper is reduced, copper ions are displaced out 
of the solution onto the cathode. The negative sulfate ions in the 
copper sulfate solution can flow across the bridge to account for the 
creation of positive zinc ions.
The Importance of the Salt Bridge

If the salt bridge were not present, copper ions could come into contact 
with solid zinc. If this were to happen, both reduction and oxidation 
would take place at the solid zinc. Copper would build up at the anode, 
and the electrons would not be able to be harnessed for electrical work. 
Depending on the extent of the mixture of electrolytes, this could 
diminish the life of the battery, or even make it completely unusable 
for electrical work.


On 01/16/2017 02:04 PM, Jean-Paul Louis louijp@... [Homebrew_PCBs] 
wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Hi Rob,
>
> Beside having fun experimenting, what would be the use of such awfully 
> low performance battery? the article claims high internal resistance 
> and 0.25V capabilty.
>
> It looks like this battery uses zinc and copper ions to work. I think 
> that there are other ways to make a much better battery with these 
> parameters. But picking those two metallic ions does not explain the 
> low voltage of said battery.
> According to the website at 
> http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/electrode-potential-d_482.html, Zinc 
> potential is -0.76V and Copper is +0.34V, so a good battery with those 
> elements should have a max of 1.1V, with an average probably around 
> 1V, which is a lot better than the 0.25V advertized.
>
> Just because you find articles on the Internet, that\u2019s not a proof of 
> good engineering practices.
> There is a lot of garbage in the Internet, but there is also a lot of 
> good stuff. It is just not easy to find the right ones.
>
> As a side note, you can see on the table that lithium has a potential 
> of -3.04V, which explains why lithium ion batteries are the hot topic.
>
> Just a few thoughts,
> Jean-Paul
> N1JPL
>
> > On Jan 16, 2017, at 2:22 AM, Rob roomberg@... [Homebrew_PCBs] 
> <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> >
> > what is sulfate of zinc and acidulated water and saturated copper 
> sulfate crystals ?
> > Do we have any chemists out there?
> >
> > I found an old time article how to make a battery and it specified
> >
> > sulfate of zinc and acidulated water and saturated copper sulfate 
> crystals
> >
> > http://www.learnmorsecode.com/regen2/battery02.jpg
> >
> > The article said to use ZINC SULFATE
> > or
> > ACIDULATED water.
> >
> > So I got look up ZINC SULFATE on the web and is says we can buy 
> 220mg zinc sulfate capsules...to eat.
> > huh?!!??
> > edible batteries?
> >
> > Zinc Sulfate (220mg) - 100 Capsules
> > Zinc sulfate is an inorganic compound and dietary supplement. As a 
> supplement it is used to treat zinc deficiency
> >
> >
> > but hey...it did say "OR"
> > and when I look up acidulated water it said
> >
> > wiki:
> > Acidulated water is water that an acid has been added to it, usually 
> lemon juice, lime juice or vinegar. Citric acid and ascorbic acid can 
> also be used.
> >
> > Acidulated water can be made by combining 1.5 tablespoons vinegar or 
> 3 tablespoons lemon juice.
> >
> > sooooo...... OK... this doesn't sound real toxic or dangerous to 
> show and tell kids battery chemistry....
> >
> > AND THEN
> > there is the saturated copper sulfate....
> > which is readily available at th eharware store
> > ROOT KILL copper sulfate pentahydrate 99%
> > and instructions on the web say:
> >
> > First, you need a saturated copper sulfate solution so the crystals 
> can form as the liquid evaporates. All you need to do to make the 
> solution is to stir copper sulfate into very hot water until no more 
> will dissolve. There are two ways to grow the crystals.Apr 26, 2014
> > How To Grow Blue Copper Sulfate Crystals - Science Notes and Projects
> > https://sciencenotes.org/how-to-grow-blue-copper-sulfate-crystals/
> >
> > OR
> > just buy 10 pounds of crystals from a seed supply house for $32.
> >
> > So is this feasible or would parents be pissed if they knew their 
> kids were near these chemicals?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

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