Yahoo Groups archive

Homebrew PCBs

Index last updated: 2026-04-13 23:21 UTC

Thread

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] what is sulfate of zinc and acidulated water andsaturated copper sulfate crystals ?

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] what is sulfate of zinc and acidulated water andsaturated copper sulfate crystals ?

2017-01-17 by chuck richards

>See Daniel Cell and Gravity Cell.
They are great cells to make and to experiment with.
As a young boy, I was at home in the basement making
wet cells of all various kinds, while the rest of the
children were still coloring with crayons.
>
>
>---- Original Message ----
>From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] what is sulfate of zinc and acidulated
>water andsaturated copper sulfate crystals ?
>Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 21:13:18 -0500
>
>>I stumbled on this perfect answer:
>>
>>What Happens in a Battery if Zinc Sulfate Is Mixed With Copper
>Sulfate?
>>by Serm Murmson
>>
>>Chemical reactions can generate electrical energy from the exchange
>of 
>>electrons. A cell that uses the electrical current from a
>spontaneous 
>>chemical reaction is called a galvanic or voltaic cell. A battery is
>an 
>>example of such a cell. A battery is specifically constructed to
>ensure 
>>that its chemical reactions occur in a controlled and reliable
>manner.
>>
>>The Nature of the Chemical Reaction
>>Batteries generate electrical current due to the exchange of
>electrons 
>>in a spontaneous reduction-oxidation, or redox, reaction. In a redox
>
>>reaction, one element loses electrons: it is oxidized. Another
>element 
>>gains these electrons: it is reduced. The elements used in a battery
>are 
>>selected due to the difference in their oxidation and reduction 
>>potentials. For example, zinc loses electrons more readily than
>copper. 
>>A redox reaction will be spontaneous if the difference in the
>relevant 
>>cell potentials is positive: the system will move to release energy.
>>The Construction of a Battery
>>
>>The cathode is the site at which reduction occurs in a battery. The 
>>anode is the site at which oxidation occurs. In many voltaic cells,
>the 
>>cathode and anode are made of the respective solid metals involved
>in 
>>the redox reaction. In order to provide ions necessary for the
>chemical 
>>reaction to take place, the anode and cathode are suspended in
>solutions 
>>containing the respective metal ions. These two solutions, called 
>>electrolytes, are connected via a membrane or barrier. In some cells
>
>>this is called a salt bridge. The function of the salt bridge is to 
>>allow some ions to move while keeping others isolated in the
>respective 
>>electrolytic solutions. Once the anode and cathode are connected via
>a 
>>wire, the electrical potential difference will cause the reaction to
>
>>occur. Electrons will flow over the wire.
>>The Zinc and Copper Battery
>>
>>In a zinc-and-copper battery, the chemical reaction involves the 
>>transfer of electrons from solid zinc to copper ions. The zinc is 
>>therefore the anode; solid zinc is oxidized. The copper is the
>cathode; 
>>copper ions are reduced. The electrolytic solutions can be zinc
>sulfate 
>>and copper sulfate. When the zinc is oxidized, new zinc ions fall
>into 
>>the solution. When the copper is reduced, copper ions are displaced
>out 
>>of the solution onto the cathode. The negative sulfate ions in the 
>>copper sulfate solution can flow across the bridge to account for
>the 
>>creation of positive zinc ions.
>>The Importance of the Salt Bridge
>>
>>If the salt bridge were not present, copper ions could come into
>contact 
>>with solid zinc. If this were to happen, both reduction and
>oxidation 
>>would take place at the solid zinc. Copper would build up at the
>anode, 
>>and the electrons would not be able to be harnessed for electrical
>work. 
>>Depending on the extent of the mixture of electrolytes, this could 
>>diminish the life of the battery, or even make it completely
>unusable 
>>for electrical work.
>>
>>
>>On 01/16/2017 02:04 PM, Jean-Paul Louis louijp@yahoo.com
>[Homebrew_PCBs] 
>>wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Rob,
>>>
>>> Beside having fun experimenting, what would be the use of such
>awfully 
>>> low performance battery? the article claims high internal
>resistance 
>>> and 0.25V capabilty.
>>>
>>> It looks like this battery uses zinc and copper ions to work. I
>think 
>>> that there are other ways to make a much better battery with these
>
>>> parameters. But picking those two metallic ions does not explain
>the 
>>> low voltage of said battery.
>>> According to the website at 
>>> http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/electrode-potential-d_482.html,
>Zinc 
>>> potential is -0.76V and Copper is +0.34V, so a good battery with
>those 
>>> elements should have a max of 1.1V, with an average probably
>around 
>>> 1V, which is a lot better than the 0.25V advertized.
>>>
>>> Just because you find articles on the Internet, thatÂ’s not a proof
>of 
>>> good engineering practices.
>>> There is a lot of garbage in the Internet, but there is also a lot
>of 
>>> good stuff. It is just not easy to find the right ones.
>>>
>>> As a side note, you can see on the table that lithium has a
>potential 
>>> of -3.04V, which explains why lithium ion batteries are the hot
>topic.
>>>
>>> Just a few thoughts,
>>> Jean-Paul
>>> N1JPL
>>>
>>> > On Jan 16, 2017, at 2:22 AM, Rob roomberg@...
>[Homebrew_PCBs] 
>>> <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > what is sulfate of zinc and acidulated water and saturated
>copper 
>>> sulfate crystals ?
>>> > Do we have any chemists out there?
>>> >
>>> > I found an old time article how to make a battery and it
>specified
>>> >
>>> > sulfate of zinc and acidulated water and saturated copper
>sulfate 
>>> crystals
>>> >
>>> > http://www.learnmorsecode.com/regen2/battery02.jpg
>>> >
>>> > The article said to use ZINC SULFATE
>>> > or
>>> > ACIDULATED water.
>>> >
>>> > So I got look up ZINC SULFATE on the web and is says we can buy 
>>> 220mg zinc sulfate capsules...to eat.
>>> > huh?!!??
>>> > edible batteries?
>>> >
>>> > Zinc Sulfate (220mg) - 100 Capsules
>>> > Zinc sulfate is an inorganic compound and dietary supplement. As
>a 
>>> supplement it is used to treat zinc deficiency
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > but hey...it did say "OR"
>>> > and when I look up acidulated water it said
>>> >
>>> > wiki:
>>> > Acidulated water is water that an acid has been added to it,
>usually 
>>> lemon juice, lime juice or vinegar. Citric acid and ascorbic acid
>can 
>>> also be used.
>>> >
>>> > Acidulated water can be made by combining 1.5 tablespoons
>vinegar or 
>>> 3 tablespoons lemon juice.
>>> >
>>> > sooooo...... OK... this doesn't sound real toxic or dangerous to
>
>>> show and tell kids battery chemistry....
>>> >
>>> > AND THEN
>>> > there is the saturated copper sulfate....
>>> > which is readily available at th eharware store
>>> > ROOT KILL copper sulfate pentahydrate 99%
>>> > and instructions on the web say:
>>> >
>>> > First, you need a saturated copper sulfate solution so the
>crystals 
>>> can form as the liquid evaporates. All you need to do to make the 
>>> solution is to stir copper sulfate into very hot water until no
>more 
>>> will dissolve. There are two ways to grow the crystals.Apr 26,
>2014
>>> > How To Grow Blue Copper Sulfate Crystals - Science Notes and
>Projects
>>> >
>https://sciencenotes.org/how-to-grow-blue-copper-sulfate-crystals/
>>> >
>>> > OR
>>> > just buy 10 pounds of crystals from a seed supply house for $32.
>>> >
>>> > So is this feasible or would parents be pissed if they knew
>their 
>>> kids were near these chemicals?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>> 
>>
>>



$4.95/mo. National Dialup, Anti-Spam, Anti-Virus, 5mb personal web space. 5x faster dialup for only $9.95/mo. No contracts, No fees, No Kidding! See http://www.All2Easy.net for more details!

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] what is sulfate of zinc and acidulated water andsaturated copper sulfate crystals ?

2017-01-17 by Malcolm Parker-Lisberg

Why stop it, who knows where it may lead, even to a simple way of plating the copper tracks.

Malcolm

I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it! 
Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin 
The writing is on the wall. 
Ha-ktovet al ha-kir

--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 1/17/17, 'David C. Partridge' david.partridge@... [Homebrew_PCBs] <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 Subject: RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] what is sulfate of zinc and acidulated water andsaturated copper sulfate crystals ?
 To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Tuesday, January 17, 2017, 10:20 AM
 
 
  
 
 
 
   
 
 
     
       
       
       Can we stop this off-topic discussion please
 
 
 
 
 
     
      
 
     
     
 
 
 
 #yiv4306559338 #yiv4306559338 --

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] what is sulfate of zinc and acidulated water andsaturated copper sulfate crystals ?

2017-01-17 by Rob

I was\ufffd asking a chemistry question here on HOMEBREW_PCBs because we have a number of VERY toxic
processess that we use to etch PCBs and we often had chemists drop in and give us directions and safety advice.

I use the off the shelf hardware store muriactic acid for etching.
I believe it is 30% hydrochloric acid mixed with 70% water

and
I use the off the shelf drug store hydrogen peroxide which is 3% peroxide and 97% water.

So when I mix 100 millileters of peroxide with 50 millileters of muriactic acid I end up with a lot of water
and a pretty safe chmical that has successfully etch 50 PCBs for me so far without any toxic incident.

I would never have learned that here if it were not for the chemists.

Thank you chemists. \ufffd
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 01/17/2017 05:20 AM, 'David C. Partridge' david.partridge@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:
\ufffd

Can we stop this off-topic discussion please

Posted by: "David C. Partridge"










Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] what is sulfate of zinc and acidulated water andsaturated copper sulfate crystals ?

2017-01-17 by Jean-Paul Louis

I agree with Rob,

There are no stupid questions, only stupid answers sometimes.
I do not understand why David want to stop this conversation. If he does not like it, he can skip it or delete it on his mailbox.

Jean-Paul
N1JPL
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> On Jan 17, 2017, at 11:37 AM, Rob roomberg@... [Homebrew_PCBs] <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> I was  asking a chemistry question here on HOMEBREW_PCBs because we have a number of VERY toxic
> processess that we use to etch PCBs and we often had chemists drop in and give us directions and safety advice.
> 
> I use the off the shelf hardware store muriactic acid for etching.
> I believe it is 30% hydrochloric acid mixed with 70% water
> 
> and 
> I use the off the shelf drug store hydrogen peroxide which is 3% peroxide and 97% water.
> 
> So when I mix 100 millileters of peroxide with 50 millileters of muriactic acid I end up with a lot of water
> and a pretty safe chmical that has successfully etch 50 PCBs for me so far without any toxic incident.
> 
> I would never have learned that here if it were not for the chemists.
> 
> Thank you chemists.   
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 01/17/2017 05:20 AM, 'David C. Partridge' david.partridge@perdrix.co.uk [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:
>>  
>> Can we stop this off-topic discussion please
>> 
>> 
>> Posted by: "David C. Partridge" <david.partridge@perdrix.co.uk>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
>

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] what is sulfate of zinc and acidulated water andsaturated copper sulfate crystals ?

2017-01-18 by chuck richards

We could stop, but for some reason now I want to continue it.
I wonder why that might be?
Show quoted textHide quoted text
---- Original Message ----
From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] what is sulfate of zinc and acidulated
water andsaturated copper sulfate crystals ?
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 10:20:38 -0000

>Can we stop this off-topic discussion please
>



$4.95/mo. National Dialup, Anti-Spam, Anti-Virus, 5mb personal web space. 5x faster dialup for only $9.95/mo. No contracts, No fees, No Kidding! See http://www.All2Easy.net for more details!

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] what is sulfate of zinc and acidulated water andsaturated copper sulfate crystals ?

2017-01-18 by Malcolm Parker-Lisberg

No good for high impedance or high voltage PCBs as it leaves a high resistance conductive film on the non track areas.
It is OK for logic level boards, but beware if the chip has an A-D converter.


Malcolm

I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it! 
Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin 
The writing is on the wall. 
Ha-ktovet al ha-kir

--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 1/18/17, roylowenthal@... [Homebrew_PCBs] <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
 Subject: RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] what is sulfate of zinc and acidulated water andsaturated copper sulfate crystals ?
 To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Wednesday, January 18, 2017, 3:12 AM
 
 
  
 
 
 
   
 
 
     
       
       
       If you want to tin plate existing copper tracks,
 there's an easy way:
  <
 http://www.parts-express.com/tinnit-tin-plate--340-188
 >
 Roy 
 
     
      
 
     
     
 
 
 
 #yiv1870771340 #yiv1870771340 --

Move to quarantaine

This moves the raw source file on disk only. The archive index is not changed automatically, so you still need to run a manual refresh afterward.