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Pulsar PCB Fab System. Any good?

Pulsar PCB Fab System. Any good?

2010-01-08 by jimofc300

Hi,

While bumbling around the Internet, I ran across a company that sure sounds good for easy PCB fab. It is "Pulsar Professional FX" at http://www.pulsarprofx.com/pcbfx/main_site/pages/start_here/index.html. Has anyone used these products? Are they as good as claimed? Or is it maybe "too good to be true?"

Briefly, their system uses a thin PC board, their special toner transfer paper, a laminator with high/low heat settings, and laser paper for a silk-screen equivalent and a type of solder mask. They also recommend techniques (no cost here) for etching boards with a sponge or a kitchen plastic bag--no etching tank! Use your choice of etchant and laser printer. They offer a 30-day money back gaurantee.

For my needs--one-off production, 1 or 2 layers max, minimal effort and time, and fairly low cost--this sounds ideal. After initial fab, I think I would also use a product called "Liquid Tin" for more corrosion resistance and a translucent green paint which they recommend to make the board look more pro.

Again, I'm looking for any intel you might have about these products.

Thanks,
Jim

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Pulsar PCB Fab System. Any good?

2010-01-08 by Brian Lalor

On Jan 8, 2010, at 2:36 AM, jimofc300 wrote:

> Again, I'm looking for any intel you might have about these products.

It sounds like several people have had success with this system,  
including DJ Delorie, who seems to be the Godfather of DIY PCBs ‘round  
these parts.  I purchased this system and the Liquid Tin a couple of  
weeks ago and am rounding up the final pieces of my home lab (my  
Dremel drill press arrived yesterday, now I just need some acid- 
resistant containers and I think I’m good to go).  The owner of Pulsar  
(and sole proprietor, near as I can tell!) has been helpful to me in  
choosing a laminator and providing some insight into the size of  
traces and pad annulars.  I’m excited to give it a try.

One problem I foresee is that my laser printer isn’t printing very  
black.  I bought a used HP LaserJet 4050TN from Craigslist and it came  
with two off-brand toner cartridges, and it’s possible that it needs  
some other maintenance.  It prints text and schematics beautifully,  
but areas of solid black have some fading.  Long story short, I’m  
hoping that Pulsar’s “toner reactive foil” will be capable of sealing  
this dodgy toner, because I’m certain I wouldn’t be successful with a  
pure-toner method like magazine paper.

--
Brian Lalor / blalor@...
     Humanity is rife with enterprising idiots whose final words may  
well have
     been "hold my beer and watch this."

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Pulsar PCB Fab System. Any good?

2010-01-08 by Harvey White

On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 07:36:21 -0000, you wrote:

>Hi,
>
>While bumbling around the Internet, I ran across a company that sure sounds good for easy PCB fab. It is "Pulsar Professional FX" at http://www.pulsarprofx.com/pcbfx/main_site/pages/start_here/index.html. Has anyone used these products? Are they as good as claimed? Or is it maybe "too good to be true?"
>
>Briefly, their system uses a thin PC board, their special toner transfer paper, a laminator with high/low heat settings, and laser paper for a silk-screen equivalent and a type of solder mask. They also recommend techniques (no cost here) for etching boards with a sponge or a kitchen plastic bag--no etching tank! Use your choice of etchant and laser printer. They offer a 30-day money back gaurantee.
>
>For my needs--one-off production, 1 or 2 layers max, minimal effort and time, and fairly low cost--this sounds ideal. After initial fab, I think I would also use a product called "Liquid Tin" for more corrosion resistance and a translucent green paint which they recommend to make the board look more pro.

You're using essentially what I use, but there are a few caveats....

I'm doing 0.5 mm TQFP packages and 0.010 mm traces.  Still working on
getting that perfect....

Normal 0.012 or larger, through hole parts are no problem, double
sided boards.

Following are my observations:

1) paper is expensive, so I cut pieces, tape them to a carrier, and
run them through the laser printer.  Costs less that way.  Paper is
available only in the 10 sheet packages.  

2) board must be absolutely clean, otherwise you end up repairing
traces.  Especially critical with smaller traces.

3) The paper can stretch a bit, not enough to give you problems, but
with eagle, I make sure that the bottom and top layers are absolutely
congruent when printing.  Print top center only, top layer is both
mirrored and rotated so that the same side of the layer is on the same
side of the printer.

4) toner density is critical, as is toner temperature.  HP products do
well, Brother has a higher temperature toner that does not work well
with the laminator.

5) They optimize for 1/2 ounce copper on thin boards.  That's ok, but
it does depend on what you can find as copper.

6) I make the boards separately on single sided thin PCB material, top
and bottom, then epoxy them together.  That seems to work and gives me
a 0.060 thick board (or thereabouts).

7) I use conventional dip etching.  Their technique for etching seems
to require a very sturdy film....

8) be very careful with the green foil, it can ruin traces if not done
right.

Harvey
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
>Again, I'm looking for any intel you might have about these products.
>
>Thanks,
>Jim
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Pulsar PCB Fab System. Any good?

2010-01-08 by Harvey White

On Fri, 8 Jan 2010 05:54:58 -0500, you wrote:

>On Jan 8, 2010, at 2:36 AM, jimofc300 wrote:
>
>> Again, I'm looking for any intel you might have about these products.
>
>It sounds like several people have had success with this system,  
>including DJ Delorie, who seems to be the Godfather of DIY PCBs \ufffdround  
>these parts.  I purchased this system and the Liquid Tin a couple of  
>weeks ago and am rounding up the final pieces of my home lab (my  
>Dremel drill press arrived yesterday, now I just need some acid- 
>resistant containers and I think I\ufffdm good to go).  The owner of Pulsar  
>(and sole proprietor, near as I can tell!) has been helpful to me in  
>choosing a laminator and providing some insight into the size of  
>traces and pad annulars.  I\ufffdm excited to give it a try.
>
>One problem I foresee is that my laser printer isn\ufffdt printing very  
>black.  I bought a used HP LaserJet 4050TN from Craigslist and it came  
>with two off-brand toner cartridges, and it\ufffds possible that it needs  
>some other maintenance.  It prints text and schematics beautifully,  
>but areas of solid black have some fading.  Long story short, I\ufffdm  
>hoping that Pulsar\ufffds \ufffdtoner reactive foil\ufffd will be capable of sealing  
>this dodgy toner, because I\ufffdm certain I wouldn\ufffdt be successful with a  
>pure-toner method like magazine paper.

It may not work all that well.  I have problems with toner density.
See if you can increase the density of the toner either through a
front panel setting on the printer or the HP printer utility.

Harvey

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Pulsar PCB Fab System. Any good?

2010-01-08 by kabowers@NorthState.net

On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 10:06:06 -0500, you wrote:

>On Fri, 8 Jan 2010 05:54:58 -0500, you wrote:
>
>>On Jan 8, 2010, at 2:36 AM, jimofc300 wrote:
>>
>
>It may not work all that well.  I have problems with toner density.
>See if you can increase the density of the toner either through a
>front panel setting on the printer or the HP printer utility.
>
>Harvey
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
When you are ready to print, look at print quality under printer
properties; set for best quality, highest resolution, etc. All sorts
of things may be hidden under "advanced" settings. 

The kind of paper selected in printer setup may also make a difference
in toner density.

It might also help to stir up the toner. Remove the toner cartridge 
and, while holding it horizontally, roll it back and forth along the long axis. 
Then rock the ends up and down a few times. Then maybe shake it gently 
end-to-end.

Keith Bowers WB4LSJ- Thomasville, NC

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Pulsar PCB Fab System. An y good?

2010-01-08 by Brian Lalor

On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 11:46:46 -0500, kabowers@... wrote:

> When you are ready to print, look at print quality under printer
> properties; set for best quality, highest resolution, etc. All sorts
> of things may be hidden under "advanced" settings. 
> 
> The kind of paper selected in printer setup may also make a difference
> in toner density.
> 
> It might also help to stir up the toner. Remove the toner cartridge 
> and, while holding it horizontally, roll it back and forth along the long
> axis. 
> Then rock the ends up and down a few times. Then maybe shake it gently 
> end-to-end.

Thanks for the info, everyone.  I'll do a little more experimenting before
giving up on the printer, but I'm going to hedge my bet and pick up an HP
P1006 from Staples on the way home and return it if I can get mine working.
 I've got two off-brand cartridges, both of which seem to exhibit the same
quarter-inch-wide stripe down the left third of the page and generally thin
toner density, even with all of the settings properly set up for max
density.  The stripe makes me think that there's something else that needs
maintenance, *on top* of needing a good toner cartridge (probably an
official HP one).  Just a replacement cartridge for this printer is north
of $50 on eBay, which I would gladly do if I thought that was all I needed.

Live and learn.  This printer's still got plenty of life left in it, I
think, just not for PCBs!

-- 
Brian Lalor
blalor@...

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Pulsar PCB Fab System. Any good?

2010-01-08 by DJ Delorie

I don't know if I'm the "godfather" here, I learned a lot from others
too...

Anyway, I've got Pulsar's system and it works just fine, within the
limits of what your laser printer can do.  Mine scatters the toner a
little, which leaves me with bumpy traces and limits me to 8 mil or so
reliably.  Two-sided is a little tricky, but there's ways to make it
work too.  Also, make sure your paper is humid enough - ten seconds
over a sink full of hot water is enough.

The TRF/sponge trick works *very* well.  Heat up the FeCl a bit (I use
a hot water bath), pour it in a cut up milk jug, and use the sponge to
wipe it on the PCB.  Etches in under a minute, and you can control
over-etch by only wiping the parts that need it.  Now if only it
weren't FeCl...  ;-)

Another catch is today's high-temperature toners, like Brother.  I
ended up modding my laminator to be digitally-temperature-controlled
so I could set it hotter for toner and colder for UV film.

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Pulsar PCB Fab System. An y good?

2010-01-08 by Brian Lalor

On 08 Jan 2010 12:20:55 -0500, DJ Delorie <dj@...> wrote:

> The TRF/sponge trick works *very* well.  Heat up the FeCl a bit (I use
> a hot water bath), pour it in a cut up milk jug, and use the sponge to
> wipe it on the PCB.  Etches in under a minute, and you can control
> over-etch by only wiping the parts that need it.  Now if only it
> weren't FeCl...  ;-)

Why don't you use HCl and H2O2?

-- 
Brian Lalor
blalor@...

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Pulsar PCB Fab System. Any good?

2010-01-08 by Stefan Trethan

Off-brand cartridges never worked for me, but the stripe could be bad,
maybe something on the mirror/laser assembly?
Try taking the cartridge out and shake it to spread the toner evenly
over the width, then print a couple of pages all black.

I also buy toner on ebay, with a little patience I've always found
genuine brand toner well below the normal price. This comes from
people who don't have the printer any more and stuff like that, expiry
date doesn't seem to matter but brand does.

ST
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 6:15 PM, Brian Lalor <blalor@...> wrote:

> Thanks for the info, everyone.  I'll do a little more experimenting before
> giving up on the printer, but I'm going to hedge my bet and pick up an HP
> P1006 from Staples on the way home and return it if I can get mine working.
>  I've got two off-brand cartridges, both of which seem to exhibit the same
> quarter-inch-wide stripe down the left third of the page and generally thin
> toner density, even with all of the settings properly set up for max
> density.  The stripe makes me think that there's something else that needs
> maintenance, *on top* of needing a good toner cartridge (probably an
> official HP one).  Just a replacement cartridge for this printer is north
> of $50 on eBay, which I would gladly do if I thought that was all I needed.
>
> Live and learn.  This printer's still got plenty of life left in it, I
> think, just not for PCBs!
>
> --
> Brian Lalor
> blalor@...
>
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Pulsar PCB Fab System. An y good?

2010-01-08 by Brian Lalor

On Fri, 8 Jan 2010 18:28:28 +0100, Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...>
wrote:

> Off-brand cartridges never worked for me, but the stripe could be bad,
> maybe something on the mirror/laser assembly?
> Try taking the cartridge out and shake it to spread the toner evenly
> over the width, then print a couple of pages all black.

I've shaken, rattled, and rolled those cartridges to within an inch of
their lives!  I'll give it one more go before giving up.

> I also buy toner on ebay, with a little patience I've always found
> genuine brand toner well below the normal price. This comes from
> people who don't have the printer any more and stuff like that, expiry
> date doesn't seem to matter but brand does.

New 27X cartridges are around $125, and new 27A cartridges are about $100. 
The 27X goes for 50-60 on eBay with free shipping for an official HP one,
but if I still have other problems I'm just throwing good money after bad. 
This was intended to be a cheap purchase... :-)

-- 
Brian Lalor
blalor@...

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Pulsar PCB Fab System. Any good?

2010-01-08 by Stefan Trethan

Well if all else fails I would see if there is a glass slot on the
laser assembly (usually near the top/front, black thing) and try
cleaning that slot.

ST
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 6:43 PM, Brian Lalor <blalor@...> wrote:
>
> On Fri, 8 Jan 2010 18:28:28 +0100, Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@gmx.at>
> wrote:
>
>> Off-brand cartridges never worked for me, but the stripe could be bad,
>> maybe something on the mirror/laser assembly?
>> Try taking the cartridge out and shake it to spread the toner evenly
>> over the width, then print a couple of pages all black.
>
> I've shaken, rattled, and rolled those cartridges to within an inch of
> their lives!  I'll give it one more go before giving up.
>
>> I also buy toner on ebay, with a little patience I've always found
>> genuine brand toner well below the normal price. This comes from
>> people who don't have the printer any more and stuff like that, expiry
>> date doesn't seem to matter but brand does.
>
> New 27X cartridges are around $125, and new 27A cartridges are about $100.
> The 27X goes for 50-60 on eBay with free shipping for an official HP one,
> but if I still have other problems I'm just throwing good money after bad.
> This was intended to be a cheap purchase... :-)
>
> --
> Brian Lalor
> blalor@...
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Pulsar PCB Fab System. Any good?

2010-01-08 by DJ Delorie

Brian Lalor <blalor@...> writes:
> Why don't you use HCl and H2O2?

I do, but I have a gallon tank of that, easier to just swish the board
around in it.  Not sure I want to stick my hand into an acid bath,
even with rubber gloves on.

I suppose I could *try* wiping, but I tend to use UV film and I've
wiped that off before if I don't get the lamination just right.

Re: Pulsar PCB Fab System. Any good?

2010-01-08 by awakephd

The stripe that you are describing sounds like a bad drum to me. The good thing about HP toner cartridges is that they include the drum -- so a new cartridge = new drum. I'd be surprised if you didn't solve the problem with a new HP toner. As other have suggested, off-brands can bite you when it comes to toner-transfer.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Brian Lalor <blalor@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
>
> On Fri, 8 Jan 2010 18:28:28 +0100, Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...>
> wrote:
> 
> > Off-brand cartridges never worked for me, but the stripe could be bad,
> > maybe something on the mirror/laser assembly?
> > Try taking the cartridge out and shake it to spread the toner evenly
> > over the width, then print a couple of pages all black.
> 
> I've shaken, rattled, and rolled those cartridges to within an inch of
> their lives!  I'll give it one more go before giving up.
> 
> > I also buy toner on ebay, with a little patience I've always found
> > genuine brand toner well below the normal price. This comes from
> > people who don't have the printer any more and stuff like that, expiry
> > date doesn't seem to matter but brand does.
> 
> New 27X cartridges are around $125, and new 27A cartridges are about $100. 
> The 27X goes for 50-60 on eBay with free shipping for an official HP one,
> but if I still have other problems I'm just throwing good money after bad. 
> This was intended to be a cheap purchase... :-)
> 
> -- 
> Brian Lalor
> blalor@...
>

Re:Pulsar PCB Fab System. Any good?

2010-01-09 by Buddy

I use Pulsar's products with very good success. The decal making process
that they have is also very good and makes very fine looking decals.
I use a couple of different drawing programs (mostly Microsoft
Publisher)
to a Laser printer for the decals.
Buddy - N5BUD


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Homebrew_PCBs] Pulsar PCB Fab System. Any good?

2010-01-09 by Andrew Mathison

Dear Brian Lalor 

  the stripe is most likely to be something wrong with the printer. Its MOST unlikely to come from any toner cartridge, let alone 2 of them
  Probably it uses LEDs to discharge the drum before printing, or its the LEDs for printing (I don't know exactly what technology is used on this printer) that are defective in that area, or a paper wreck left a piece of paper in the path or the LEDs are really dirty from toner and the light is blocked (thats a very long shot!!)......if it was a scanning laser printer, then it could be a piece of paper torn off and blocking as well....

  regards

  Andy
  ---------------------------------------------------------
  On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 11:46:46 -0500, kabowers@... wrote:

  > When you are ready to print, look at print quality under printer
  > properties; set for best quality, highest resolution, etc. All sorts
  > of things may be hidden under "advanced" settings. 
  > 
  > The kind of paper selected in printer setup may also make a difference
  > in toner density.
  > 
  > It might also help to stir up the toner. Remove the toner cartridge 
  > and, while holding it horizontally, roll it back and forth along the long
  > axis. 
  > Then rock the ends up and down a few times. Then maybe shake it gently 
  > end-to-end.

  Thanks for the info, everyone. I'll do a little more experimenting before
  giving up on the printer, but I'm going to hedge my bet and pick up an HP
  P1006 from Staples on the way home and return it if I can get mine working.
  I've got two off-brand cartridges, both of which seem to exhibit the same
  quarter-inch-wide stripe down the left third of the page and generally thin
  toner density, even with all of the settings properly set up for max
  density. The stripe makes me think that there's something else that needs
  maintenance, *on top* of needing a good toner cartridge (probably an
  official HP one). Just a replacement cartridge for this printer is north
  of $50 on eBay, which I would gladly do if I thought that was all I needed.

  Live and learn. This printer's still got plenty of life left in it, I
  think, just not for PCBs!

  -- 
  Brian Lalor
  blalor@...

  



Greetings from

Andy Mathison

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Pulsar PCB Fab System. Any good?

2010-01-10 by awakephd

Andy,

I hate to disagree with someone who has such an excellent name, but I am 99% sure it is the light-sensitive drum that is contained in the HP toner cartridge, especially since Brian reported above that the second cartridge did not show this stripe.

Note -- you are right the the problem is not the *toner*, but rather it is the drum in the toner cartridge that is at fault. I have seen this problem again and again when the drum begins to go bad. On printers with separate toner and separate drum, that is very bad news, because the drum often costs more than a new printer. On HP's, however, you replace the drum every time you replace the toner cartridge. The problem you can run into with a low-cost recycled cartridge is that they only replace the toner. That's fine if the drum is still good, but doesn't help at all if the drum has gone bad.

FWIW, I am pretty sure the HP 4050 is a true laser printer, not LED or LCD.

Regards,

Andy Wakefield


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Mathison" <andrewdavid.mathison@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
>   Dear Brian Lalor 
> 
>   the stripe is most likely to be something wrong with the printer. Its MOST unlikely to come from any toner cartridge, let alone 2 of them
>   Probably it uses LEDs to discharge the drum before printing, or its the LEDs for printing (I don't know exactly what technology is used on this printer) that are defective in that area, or a paper wreck left a piece of paper in the path or the LEDs are really dirty from toner and the light is blocked (thats a very long shot!!)......if it was a scanning laser printer, then it could be a piece of paper torn off and blocking as well....
> 
>   regards
> 
>   Andy
>   ---------------------------------------------------------
>   On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 11:46:46 -0500, kabowers@... wrote:
> 
>   > When you are ready to print, look at print quality under printer
>   > properties; set for best quality, highest resolution, etc. All sorts
>   > of things may be hidden under "advanced" settings. 
>   > 
>   > The kind of paper selected in printer setup may also make a difference
>   > in toner density.
>   > 
>   > It might also help to stir up the toner. Remove the toner cartridge 
>   > and, while holding it horizontally, roll it back and forth along the long
>   > axis. 
>   > Then rock the ends up and down a few times. Then maybe shake it gently 
>   > end-to-end.
> 
>   Thanks for the info, everyone. I'll do a little more experimenting before
>   giving up on the printer, but I'm going to hedge my bet and pick up an HP
>   P1006 from Staples on the way home and return it if I can get mine working.
>   I've got two off-brand cartridges, both of which seem to exhibit the same
>   quarter-inch-wide stripe down the left third of the page and generally thin
>   toner density, even with all of the settings properly set up for max
>   density. The stripe makes me think that there's something else that needs
>   maintenance, *on top* of needing a good toner cartridge (probably an
>   official HP one). Just a replacement cartridge for this printer is north
>   of $50 on eBay, which I would gladly do if I thought that was all I needed.
> 
>   Live and learn. This printer's still got plenty of life left in it, I
>   think, just not for PCBs!
> 
>   -- 
>   Brian Lalor
>   blalor@...
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
> Greetings from
> 
> Andy Mathison
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Pulsar PCB Fab System. Any good?

2010-01-10 by Andrew Mathison

Hi awakephd 

  sorry, I thought he said that both cartridges showed the same problem.......if that was not true,  please accept my apology.

  I will re-read what was posted again.

  regards

  Andy

  PS Great name you have!!!
   ---------------------------------- 
  Andy,

  I hate to disagree with someone who has such an excellent name, but I am 99% sure it is the light-sensitive drum that is contained in the HP toner cartridge, especially since Brian reported above that the second cartridge did not show this stripe.

  Note -- you are right the the problem is not the *toner*, but rather it is the drum in the toner cartridge that is at fault. I have seen this problem again and again when the drum begins to go bad. On printers with separate toner and separate drum, that is very bad news, because the drum often costs more than a new printer. On HP's, however, you replace the drum every time you replace the toner cartridge. The problem you can run into with a low-cost recycled cartridge is that they only replace the toner. That's fine if the drum is still good, but doesn't help at all if the drum has gone bad.

  FWIW, I am pretty sure the HP 4050 is a true laser printer, not LED or LCD.

  Regards,

  Andy Wakefield

  --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Mathison" <andrewdavid.mathison@...> wrote:
  >
  > Dear Brian Lalor 
  > 
  > the stripe is most likely to be something wrong with the printer. Its MOST unlikely to come from any toner cartridge, let alone 2 of them
  > Probably it uses LEDs to discharge the drum before printing, or its the LEDs for printing (I don't know exactly what technology is used on this printer) that are defective in that area, or a paper wreck left a piece of paper in the path or the LEDs are really dirty from toner and the light is blocked (thats a very long shot!!)......if it was a scanning laser printer, then it could be a piece of paper torn off and blocking as well....
  > 
  > regards
  > 
  > Andy
  > ---------------------------------------------------------
  > On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 11:46:46 -0500, kabowers@... wrote:
  > 
  > > When you are ready to print, look at print quality under printer
  > > properties; set for best quality, highest resolution, etc. All sorts
  > > of things may be hidden under "advanced" settings. 
  > > 
  > > The kind of paper selected in printer setup may also make a difference
  > > in toner density.
  > > 
  > > It might also help to stir up the toner. Remove the toner cartridge 
  > > and, while holding it horizontally, roll it back and forth along the long
  > > axis. 
  > > Then rock the ends up and down a few times. Then maybe shake it gently 
  > > end-to-end.
  > 
  > Thanks for the info, everyone. I'll do a little more experimenting before
  > giving up on the printer, but I'm going to hedge my bet and pick up an HP
  > P1006 from Staples on the way home and return it if I can get mine working.
  > I've got two off-brand cartridges, both of which seem to exhibit the same
  > quarter-inch-wide stripe down the left third of the page and generally thin
  > toner density, even with all of the settings properly set up for max
  > density. The stripe makes me think that there's something else that needs
  > maintenance, *on top* of needing a good toner cartridge (probably an
  > official HP one). Just a replacement cartridge for this printer is north
  > of $50 on eBay, which I would gladly do if I thought that was all I needed.
  > 
  > Live and learn. This printer's still got plenty of life left in it, I
  > think, just not for PCBs!
  > 
  > -- 
  > Brian Lalor
  > blalor@...
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > Greetings from
  > 
  > Andy Mathison
  > 
  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  >



  



Greetings from

Andy Mathison

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Pulsar PCB Fab System. Any good?

2010-01-10 by Andrew Mathison

Hi awakephd 

  I was right, he posted the following (which I replied to AND it was also included in my reply), what do you say now Andy? At best it was totally missleading what he wrote or GIGO?:-

  Thanks for the info, everyone. I'll do a little more experimenting before giving up on the printer, but I'm going to hedge my bet and pick up an HP
  P1006 from Staples on the way home and return it if I can get mine working.
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  I've got two off-brand cartridges, both of which seem to exhibit the same quarter-inch-wide stripe down the left third of the page and generally thin
  toner density, even with all of the settings properly set up for max density. 
  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  The stripe makes me think that there's something else that needs
  maintenance, *on top* of needing a good toner cartridge (probably an official HP one). Just a replacement cartridge for this printer is north
  of $50 on eBay, which I would gladly do if I thought that was all I needed.

  Live and learn. This printer's still got plenty of life left in it, I
  think, just not for PCBs!

  --
  Brian Lalor
  blalor@...
  ---------------------------------------------------------  
  Andy,

  I hate to disagree with someone who has such an excellent name, but I am 99% sure it is the light-sensitive drum that is contained in the HP toner cartridge, especially since Brian reported above that the second cartridge did not show this stripe.

  Note -- you are right the the problem is not the *toner*, but rather it is the drum in the toner cartridge that is at fault. I have seen this problem again and again when the drum begins to go bad. On printers with separate toner and separate drum, that is very bad news, because the drum often costs more than a new printer. On HP's, however, you replace the drum every time you replace the toner cartridge. The problem you can run into with a low-cost recycled cartridge is that they only replace the toner. That's fine if the drum is still good, but doesn't help at all if the drum has gone bad.

  FWIW, I am pretty sure the HP 4050 is a true laser printer, not LED or LCD.

  Regards,

  Andy Wakefield


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Pulsar PCB Fab System. Any good?

2010-01-10 by Brian Lalor

On Jan 10, 2010, at 12:18 PM, Andrew Mathison wrote:

>  I was right, he posted the following (which I replied to AND it was  
> also included in my reply), what do you say now Andy? At best it was  
> totally missleading what he wrote or GIGO?:-

I corrected myself later.  The stripe was only showing up on one  
cartridge, not both. I’ve since purchased an official HP toner  
cartridge.  I’m getting much darker toner, now.  I’ll post my results  
later today, hopefully.

--
    __   ____
   / /  / __/ Brian Lalor           "If you still have gas, you're not  
lost."
  / _ \/__ \  blalor@...             -- Jacques Strappe
/_.__/____/  http://bravo5.org/

Re: [?? Probable Spam] Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Pulsar PCB Fab System. Any good?

2010-01-10 by Andrew Mathison

Dear Brian Lalor 

  thanks for clearing that (totally misleading) infos up!!

  Happy 2010

  regards

  Andy
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------

  On Jan 10, 2010, at 12:18 PM, Andrew Mathison wrote:

  >  I was right, he posted the following (which I replied to AND it was  
  > also included in my reply), what do you say now Andy? At best it was  
  > totally missleading what he wrote or GIGO?:-

  I corrected myself later.  The stripe was only showing up on one  
  cartridge, not both. I�ve since purchased an official HP toner  
  cartridge.  I�m getting much darker toner, now.  I�ll post my results  
  later today, hopefully.

  --
      __   ____
     / /  / __/ Brian Lalor           "If you still have gas, you're not  
  lost."
    / _ \/__ \  blalor@...             -- Jacques Strappe
  /_.__/____/  http://bravo5.org/





  ------------------------------------

  Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links







Greetings from

Andy Mathison

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Pulsar PCB Fab System. Any good?

2010-01-11 by awakephd

Hi, Andy,

Yes, I should have remembered that his original post said that both cartridges were doing it. I was going on the basis of the more recent post that corrected the information.

To be honest, though, I have seen this exact problem so many times that even if both of his cartridges had shown it, I would still have suspected the drums -- since both cartridges were off-brand recycled types. For some reason, an awful lot of the drums I've seen go bad produce nearly identical looking streaks down one side of the output.

Of course, the down-side of my diagnosis is, if I'm wrong, you've just invested $50-$100 in a new cartridge, while in the case of your diagnosis, all you've done is spend a few minutes looking for stray paper. In retrospect, might be better to look for the paper first! Though come to think of it, the only time I ever saw anything like this symptom caused by stray paper was way back in the "early days" of laser printers, when a client had run some labels through -- one of the labels had peeled up and gotten gummed up in the works. It was quite fun to get it all cleaned out ... !

Regards,

Andy Wakefield

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Mathison" <andrewdavid.mathison@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
>   Hi awakephd 
> 
>   I was right, he posted the following (which I replied to AND it was also included in my reply), what do you say now Andy? At best it was totally missleading what he wrote or GIGO?:-
> 
>   Thanks for the info, everyone. I'll do a little more experimenting before giving up on the printer, but I'm going to hedge my bet and pick up an HP
>   P1006 from Staples on the way home and return it if I can get mine working.
>   ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   I've got two off-brand cartridges, both of which seem to exhibit the same quarter-inch-wide stripe down the left third of the page and generally thin
>   toner density, even with all of the settings properly set up for max density. 
>   ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   The stripe makes me think that there's something else that needs
>   maintenance, *on top* of needing a good toner cartridge (probably an official HP one). Just a replacement cartridge for this printer is north
>   of $50 on eBay, which I would gladly do if I thought that was all I needed.
> 
>   Live and learn. This printer's still got plenty of life left in it, I
>   think, just not for PCBs!
> 
>   --
>   Brian Lalor
>   blalor@
>   ---------------------------------------------------------  
>   Andy,
> 
>   I hate to disagree with someone who has such an excellent name, but I am 99% sure it is the light-sensitive drum that is contained in the HP toner cartridge, especially since Brian reported above that the second cartridge did not show this stripe.
> 
>   Note -- you are right the the problem is not the *toner*, but rather it is the drum in the toner cartridge that is at fault. I have seen this problem again and again when the drum begins to go bad. On printers with separate toner and separate drum, that is very bad news, because the drum often costs more than a new printer. On HP's, however, you replace the drum every time you replace the toner cartridge. The problem you can run into with a low-cost recycled cartridge is that they only replace the toner. That's fine if the drum is still good, but doesn't help at all if the drum has gone bad.
> 
>   FWIW, I am pretty sure the HP 4050 is a true laser printer, not LED or LCD.
> 
>   Regards,
> 
>   Andy Wakefield
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Pulsar PCB Fab System. Any good?

2010-01-11 by Andrew Mathison

Dear awakephd 

  it sounds like we have both had the same/similar experiences!!!

  Nice to "meet" you, we need people like us!!

  regards

  Andy
    ---------------------------------------------- 
  Hi, Andy,

  Yes, I should have remembered that his original post said that both cartridges were doing it. I was going on the basis of the more recent post that corrected the information.

  To be honest, though, I have seen this exact problem so many times that even if both of his cartridges had shown it, I would still have suspected the drums -- since both cartridges were off-brand recycled types. For some reason, an awful lot of the drums I've seen go bad produce nearly identical looking streaks down one side of the output.

  Of course, the down-side of my diagnosis is, if I'm wrong, you've just invested $50-$100 in a new cartridge, while in the case of your diagnosis, all you've done is spend a few minutes looking for stray paper. In retrospect, might be better to look for the paper first! Though come to think of it, the only time I ever saw anything like this symptom caused by stray paper was way back in the "early days" of laser printers, when a client had run some labels through -- one of the labels had peeled up and gotten gummed up in the works. It was quite fun to get it all cleaned out ... !

  Regards,

  Andy Wakefield

  --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Mathison" <andrewdavid.mathison@...> wrote:
  >
  > Hi awakephd 
  > 
  > I was right, he posted the following (which I replied to AND it was also included in my reply), what do you say now Andy? At best it was totally missleading what he wrote or GIGO?:-
  > 
  > Thanks for the info, everyone. I'll do a little more experimenting before giving up on the printer, but I'm going to hedge my bet and pick up an HP
  > P1006 from Staples on the way home and return it if I can get mine working.
  > ----------------------------------------------------------
  > I've got two off-brand cartridges, both of which seem to exhibit the same quarter-inch-wide stripe down the left third of the page and generally thin
  > toner density, even with all of the settings properly set up for max density. 
  > ----------------------------------------------------------
  > The stripe makes me think that there's something else that needs
  > maintenance, *on top* of needing a good toner cartridge (probably an official HP one). Just a replacement cartridge for this printer is north
  > of $50 on eBay, which I would gladly do if I thought that was all I needed.
  > 
  > Live and learn. This printer's still got plenty of life left in it, I
  > think, just not for PCBs!
  > 
  > --
  > Brian Lalor
  > blalor@
  > --------------------------------------------------------- 
  > Andy,
  > 
  > I hate to disagree with someone who has such an excellent name, but I am 99% sure it is the light-sensitive drum that is contained in the HP toner cartridge, especially since Brian reported above that the second cartridge did not show this stripe.
  > 
  > Note -- you are right the the problem is not the *toner*, but rather it is the drum in the toner cartridge that is at fault. I have seen this problem again and again when the drum begins to go bad. On printers with separate toner and separate drum, that is very bad news, because the drum often costs more than a new printer. On HP's, however, you replace the drum every time you replace the toner cartridge. The problem you can run into with a low-cost recycled cartridge is that they only replace the toner. That's fine if the drum is still good, but doesn't help at all if the drum has gone bad.
  > 
  > FWIW, I am pretty sure the HP 4050 is a true laser printer, not LED or LCD.
  > 
  > Regards,
  > 
  > Andy Wakefield
  > 
  > 
  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  >



  



Greetings from

Andy Mathison

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Pulsar PCB Fab System. Any good?

2010-01-12 by awakephd

Indeed -- but alas, so few people have the right name ... :)

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Mathison" <andrewdavid.mathison@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
>   Dear awakephd 
> 
>   it sounds like we have both had the same/similar experiences!!!
> 
>   Nice to "meet" you, we need people like us!!
> 
>   regards
> 
>   Andy
>     ---------------------------------------------- 
>   Hi, Andy,
> 
>   Yes, I should have remembered that his original post said that both cartridges were doing it. I was going on the basis of the more recent post that corrected the information.
> 
>   To be honest, though, I have seen this exact problem so many times that even if both of his cartridges had shown it, I would still have suspected the drums -- since both cartridges were off-brand recycled types. For some reason, an awful lot of the drums I've seen go bad produce nearly identical looking streaks down one side of the output.
> 
>   Of course, the down-side of my diagnosis is, if I'm wrong, you've just invested $50-$100 in a new cartridge, while in the case of your diagnosis, all you've done is spend a few minutes looking for stray paper. In retrospect, might be better to look for the paper first! Though come to think of it, the only time I ever saw anything like this symptom caused by stray paper was way back in the "early days" of laser printers, when a client had run some labels through -- one of the labels had peeled up and gotten gummed up in the works. It was quite fun to get it all cleaned out ... !
> 
>   Regards,
> 
>   Andy Wakefield
> 
>   --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Mathison" <andrewdavid.mathison@> wrote:
>   >
>   > Hi awakephd 
>   > 
>   > I was right, he posted the following (which I replied to AND it was also included in my reply), what do you say now Andy? At best it was totally missleading what he wrote or GIGO?:-
>   > 
>   > Thanks for the info, everyone. I'll do a little more experimenting before giving up on the printer, but I'm going to hedge my bet and pick up an HP
>   > P1006 from Staples on the way home and return it if I can get mine working.
>   > ----------------------------------------------------------
>   > I've got two off-brand cartridges, both of which seem to exhibit the same quarter-inch-wide stripe down the left third of the page and generally thin
>   > toner density, even with all of the settings properly set up for max density. 
>   > ----------------------------------------------------------
>   > The stripe makes me think that there's something else that needs
>   > maintenance, *on top* of needing a good toner cartridge (probably an official HP one). Just a replacement cartridge for this printer is north
>   > of $50 on eBay, which I would gladly do if I thought that was all I needed.
>   > 
>   > Live and learn. This printer's still got plenty of life left in it, I
>   > think, just not for PCBs!
>   > 
>   > --
>   > Brian Lalor
>   > blalor@
>   > --------------------------------------------------------- 
>   > Andy,
>   > 
>   > I hate to disagree with someone who has such an excellent name, but I am 99% sure it is the light-sensitive drum that is contained in the HP toner cartridge, especially since Brian reported above that the second cartridge did not show this stripe.
>   > 
>   > Note -- you are right the the problem is not the *toner*, but rather it is the drum in the toner cartridge that is at fault. I have seen this problem again and again when the drum begins to go bad. On printers with separate toner and separate drum, that is very bad news, because the drum often costs more than a new printer. On HP's, however, you replace the drum every time you replace the toner cartridge. The problem you can run into with a low-cost recycled cartridge is that they only replace the toner. That's fine if the drum is still good, but doesn't help at all if the drum has gone bad.
>   > 
>   > FWIW, I am pretty sure the HP 4050 is a true laser printer, not LED or LCD.
>   > 
>   > Regards,
>   > 
>   > Andy Wakefield
>   > 
>   > 
>   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>   >
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
> Greetings from
> 
> Andy Mathison
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Pulsar PCB Fab System. Any good?

2010-01-12 by Andrew Mathison

Dear Andy

  two of us are enough surely?

  regards

  Andy
  --------------------------------------------
  Indeed -- but alas, so few people have the right name ... :)

  --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Mathison" <andrewdavid.mathison@...> wrote:
  >
  > Dear awakephd 
  > 
  > it sounds like we have both had the same/similar experiences!!!
  > 
  > Nice to "meet" you, we need people like us!!
  > 
  > regards
  > 
  > Andy

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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