Homebrew PCBs

I heard from a chemist.  Veterinarians use hydrogen
peroxide at 35% strength for animal use.  This should
be available for purchase easily rather than the 3%
at the drug store.

Quick google turned up this: 

"35% PEROX-AID® is a 35% Aquaculture grade hydrogen peroxide product that received FDA approval for use in aquaculture in January 2007."


However finding small bottles might be a problem (instead
of 55 gallon drums or 1 gallon bottles).  The tip is, check 
the local vet store.

I have not tried this, just an idea.

On Mon, 2009-07-06 at 21:54 +0000, jc805sb wrote:
> I heard from a chemist. Veterinarians use hydrogen
> peroxide at 35% strength for animal use. This should
> be available for purchase easily rather than the 3%
> at the drug store.


My sister is veterinarian and told me the same. It is used to wash/clean
big animals foots. Like horses or cows (i think already said this here).
But asking in a supplier got 'that's too acidic, don't have'. Maybe
asking to a veterinarian that only treats horses.


Also from jj_winkel on 26 apr 09 
"Here in France it is easy and cheap enough to get "masonry" grade H202
(35% in weight or 130 in volume) used for wood bleaching and stains
removal"


Calling to the companies that package the acids, acetone, caustic soda
and so that i buy at the drug/hardware store (indicated in the package)
is one thing i never tried.

In the USA, I purchased some 30-volume (I think that's 15%) H2O2 from Sally 
Beauty Supply.  The sales people thought it was funny that a 55+ year-old guy 
was buying hydrogen peroxide at a beautician supply store, but when I explained 
what I was going to do with it, they thought it was "cute."

Donald.

Simao Cardoso wrote:

> On Mon, 2009-07-06 at 21:54 +0000, jc805sb wrote:
>> I heard from a chemist. Veterinarians use hydrogen
>> peroxide at 35% strength for animal use. This should
>> be available for purchase easily rather than the 3%
>> at the drug store.
> 
> 
> My sister is veterinarian and told me the same. It is used to wash/clean
> big animals foots. Like horses or cows (i think already said this here).
> But asking in a supplier got 'that's too acidic, don't have'. Maybe
> asking to a veterinarian that only treats horses.
> 
> 
> Also from jj_winkel on 26 apr 09 
> "Here in France it is easy and cheap enough to get "masonry" grade H202
> (35% in weight or 130 in volume) used for wood bleaching and stains
> removal"
> 
> 
> Calling to the companies that package the acids, acetone, caustic soda
> and so that i buy at the drug/hardware store (indicated in the package)
> is one thing i never tried. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>

I had a similar experience. but accompanied by a very strange look.
Myc

On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 9:50 PM, Donald H Locker <dhlocker@...>wrote:

>
>
> In the USA, I purchased some 30-volume (I think that's 15%) H2O2 from Sally
>
> Beauty Supply. The sales people thought it was funny that a 55+ year-old
> guy
> was buying hydrogen peroxide at a beautician supply store, but when I
> explained
> what I was going to do with it, they thought it was "cute."
>
> Donald.
>
>
> Simao Cardoso wrote:
> > On Mon, 2009-07-06 at 21:54 +0000, jc805sb wrote:
> >> I heard from a chemist. Veterinarians use hydrogen
> >> peroxide at 35% strength for animal use. This should
> >> be available for purchase easily rather than the 3%
> >> at the drug store.
> >
> >
> > My sister is veterinarian and told me the same. It is used to wash/clean
> > big animals foots. Like horses or cows (i think already said this here).
> > But asking in a supplier got 'that's too acidic, don't have'. Maybe
> > asking to a veterinarian that only treats horses.
> >
> >
> > Also from jj_winkel on 26 apr 09
> > "Here in France it is easy and cheap enough to get "masonry" grade H202
> > (35% in weight or 130 in volume) used for wood bleaching and stains
> > removal"
> >
> >
> > Calling to the companies that package the acids, acetone, caustic soda
> > and so that i buy at the drug/hardware store (indicated in the package)
> > is one thing i never tried.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
> Photos:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Mon, 2009-07-06 at 21:50 -0400, Donald H Locker wrote:
> In the USA, I purchased some 30-volume (I think that's 15%) H2O2
> 

30 volume is 9%.
In a pharmacy they said can mix the thing. But charge 20eur for mixing
(plus the product) and that's more than i will pay for the thing. But i
forget to ask if they have 'pure'.

It also seems to exist some vacuum distillation process for 90% grade
rocket fuel.
http://www.tecaeromex.com/ingles/destilai.html

How is Hydrogen Peroxide manufactured?  Most chemicals don't have
a hugely complicated manufacturing process.  We might be able to
duplicate it at home with relative safety for small (1L to 10L or a gallon
or two) quantities.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Be very careful with the high strength H2O2. It can cause very serious
burns.
High strength H2O2 is used as a sterilizing solution in the manufacutering
and filling of food and milk cartons. A few drops is sprayed into the carton
to sterilize it and then the carton is flash heated to convert the H2O2 to
water, the the carton is filled and sealed

The H2O2 purchased at beauty supply stores for bleaching hair is about the
safe limit. In the US, 50 volume H2O2 requires a beautician's license to
purchase.

30 volume is excellent for pcb use.

Myc


On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 10:17 AM, Simao Cardoso <simaocardoso@...>wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, 2009-07-06 at 21:50 -0400, Donald H Locker wrote:
> > In the USA, I purchased some 30-volume (I think that's 15%) H2O2
> >
>
> 30 volume is 9%.
> In a pharmacy they said can mix the thing. But charge 20eur for mixing
> (plus the product) and that's more than i will pay for the thing. But i
> forget to ask if they have 'pure'.
>
> It also seems to exist some vacuum distillation process for 90% grade
> rocket fuel.
> http://www.tecaeromex.com/ingles/destilai.html
>
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Tue, 2009-07-07 at 09:49 -0500, Jack Coats wrote:
> 
> 
> How is Hydrogen Peroxide manufactured? Most chemicals don't have
> a hugely complicated manufacturing process. We might be able to
> duplicate it at home with relative safety for small (1L to 10L or a
> gallon
> or two) quantities.
> 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_peroxide
Is complicated. You can search for books, papers and patents about it
either. Is simpler to buy 35-50% in high quantity.

Dj Deloire said 'I wonder if it would be simpler to just buy a small
bottle of oxygen from the local pharmacy or welding supply store.'

Based on the cost of H2O2 and Muriatic (HCl) acid is is not worth the time
and effort to "homebrew" it.

On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 10:49 AM, Jack Coats <jack@...> wrote:

>
>
> How is Hydrogen Peroxide manufactured? Most chemicals don't have
> a hugely complicated manufacturing process. We might be able to
> duplicate it at home with relative safety for small (1L to 10L or a gallon
> or two) quantities.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

High strength H2O2 is also used in ROCKET FUEL.  Purified up to 98%
it's a VERY efficient oxidizer.

Then the solution is obvious. We must all get involved with model
reocketry and H2O2 motors, then the complications purchasing 30% H2O2
will look insignificant compared to purchasing the 98% stuff. Problem
solved!

ST

On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 5:33 PM, DJ Delorie<dj@...> wrote:
>
> High strength H2O2 is also used in ROCKET FUEL.  Purified up to 98%
> it's a VERY efficient oxidizer.
>

My Dad worked for Bell Helicopter when Bell Aerospace came out with
the initial 'rocket belt'.  If I remember right it was propelled by a little
bit of
compressed nitrogen pushing H2O2 out of the 'jet' nozzles where it was
pressed through some platinum screen that caused the H2O2 to disassociate
into H2O and H2 along with enough heat to ensure the water was flashed into
steam.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jack:
Where do you live?

Roland F. Harriston, P.D.
*****************



Jack Coats wrote:

>
>
> How is Hydrogen Peroxide manufactured? Most chemicals don't have
> a hugely complicated manufacturing process. We might be able to
> duplicate it at home with relative safety for small (1L to 10L or a gallon
> or two) quantities.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

Hi all,

I know personally members of the GEA, a rocketry club in belgium, they buy H2O2 at 30% that they have to distillate to get it above 80%, it is used in hybrid engine.

--- On Tue, 7/7/09, Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:

From: Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...>
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] alternative to 3% hydrogen peroxide: 35%  animal-grade hydrogen peroxide
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, July 7, 2009, 4:15 PM











    
            
            


      
      Then the solution is obvious. We must all get involved with model

reocketry and H2O2 motors, then the complications purchasing 30% H2O2

will look insignificant compared to purchasing the 98% stuff. Problem

solved!



ST



On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 5:33 PM, DJ Delorie<dj@...> wrote:

>

> High strength H2O2 is also used in ROCKET FUEL.  Purified up to 98%

> it's a VERY efficient oxidizer.

>


 

      

    
    
	
	 
	
	








	


	
	


      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I haven't used this site but it looks cheap.  1 quart of 35% for $20
or 1 gallon for $30:

http://www.dfwx.com/h2o2.htm?gclid=CNanheiu3poCFQEeDQodIH6CzQ

On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 10:33 PM, Michel Baguet<bagmik@...> wrote:
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I know personally members of the GEA, a rocketry club in belgium, they buy
> H2O2 at 30% that they have to distillate to get it above 80%, it is used in
> hybrid engine.
>
> --- On Tue, 7/7/09, Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
>
> From: Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...>
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] alternative to 3% hydrogen peroxide: 35%
> animal-grade hydrogen peroxide
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, July 7, 2009, 4:15 PM
>
> Then the solution is obvious. We must all get involved with model
>
> reocketry and H2O2 motors, then the complications purchasing 30% H2O2
>
> will look insignificant compared to purchasing the 98% stuff. Problem
>
> solved!
>
> ST
>
> On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 5:33 PM, DJ Delorie<dj@...> wrote:
>
>>
>
>> High strength H2O2 is also used in ROCKET FUEL.  Purified up to 98%
>
>> it's a VERY efficient oxidizer.
>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Henry Liu <henryjliu@...> wrote:
>
> I haven't used this site but it looks cheap.  1 quart of 35% for $20
> or 1 gallon for $30:
> 
> http://www.dfwx.com/h2o2.htm?gclid=CNanheiu3poCFQEeDQodIH6CzQ
> 


I buy mine from the local 'health' food store for about that price.  It works well. I have no idea why they sell 35% H2O2.  I probably don't want to know.
  

As this link warns there are *lots* of scammers out there, and probably even more who wouldn't know  a weight/volume percentage from a volume/volume percent, molar percentage, percent normal, or any of the other things that a 'percent' solution might represent.


Fortunately, this is not a particularly twitchy application, and a range of concentrations can work.


-- Dave

On Tue, 2009-07-07 at 18:15 +0200, Stefan Trethan wrote:
> Then the solution is obvious. We must all get involved with model
> reocketry and H2O2 motors, then the complications purchasing 30% H2O2
> will look insignificant compared to purchasing the 98% stuff. Problem
> solved!


Humorous and realistic approach. 

For CuCl 3% H2O2 do super fine to initiate it, and even 100% grade will
be little stupid to regenerate since you will be always increasing and
diluting the solution.

I try to buy it for H2SO4 based etchant only, in  minor grade can only
be used as micro etch. In high grade H2O2 can be more stable, but is
dangerous as etchant, copper catalyze H2O2 decomposition, like silver in
rocketry. ThinkTink sell an mandatory stabilizer for this purpose. But
getting 35% H2O2 should be as easy as asking to a chemical supplier.

But still H2O2 as oxygen source always increase solution volume. The
best approach will be using a chemical addictive that, when  bubbling
oxygen will retain it on solution. My low skills chemistry thinks on
benzene but will not work. And a top-bottom approach can work for Steve
Jobs because is software, this is chemistry.


On Tue, 2009-07-07 at 12:18 -0500, Jack Coats wrote: 
> compressed nitrogen pushing H2O2 out of the 'jet' nozzles where it was
> pressed through some platinum screen that caused the H2O2 to
> disassociate into H2O and H2 along with enough heat to ensure the
> water was flashed into steam.
> 

Isn't decomposition in O2 and H20 steam? On a silver catalyst?

I've been told that cosmetologists use
the strong stuff for bleaching hair.
Women have this done used to be
called "Peroxide Blonds".

Roland F. Harriston, P.D.
***********************



pork_u_pine2000 wrote:

>
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>, Henry Liu <henryjliu@...> wrote:
> >
> > I haven't used this site but it looks cheap. 1 quart of 35% for $20
> > or 1 gallon for $30:
> >
> > http://www.dfwx.com/h2o2.htm?gclid=CNanheiu3poCFQEeDQodIH6CzQ 
> <http://www.dfwx.com/h2o2.htm?gclid=CNanheiu3poCFQEeDQodIH6CzQ>
> >
>
> I buy mine from the local 'health' food store for about that price. It 
> works well. I have no idea why they sell 35% H2O2. I probably don't 
> want to know.
>
>
> As this link warns there are *lots* of scammers out there, and 
> probably even more who wouldn't know a weight/volume percentage from a 
> volume/volume percent, molar percentage, percent normal, or any of the 
> other things that a 'percent' solution might represent.
>
> Fortunately, this is not a particularly twitchy application, and a 
> range of concentrations can work.
>
> -- Dave
>
>

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Henry Liu <henryjliu@...> wrote:
>
> I haven't used this site but it looks cheap.  1 quart of 35% for $20
> or 1 gallon for $30:
> 
> http://www.dfwx.com/h2o2.htm?gclid=CNanheiu3poCFQEeDQodIH6CzQ

What I saw on that site is $35.13/Gal. + 17.41 S&H.

Just started my Tank about 6 weeks ago with this doing the 2 to 1 mix using the 3% Hydrogen peroxide, did several 8" x 12" boards pumping air into it, then had found a old copper grounding bus bar at work and put into it which might have been more than was needed as it turned very dark, even with air being pumped into it, never weighed the copper bus bar. So far just pumping air into it and have added some acid.  Still looks dark green in the tank but still seems to be etching good.  Think it etches better right now than the first run of boards I did in it.  If I put a sample in a small glass cup it does not look so dark.  Need to get me some things together to test it.

Right now I don't see that much need for a lot of Hydrogen Peroxide, just lots of air.

Use to use the Dark Brown Stuff everyone seems to hate so much, which I did not mind so much as some people seem too, just did not like it when it came time to change it and get rid of it as I had a tank that I could etch upto (4) 8" x 12" boards at a time in it so was a lot to get rid of at one time.  So now I don't have to get rid of it and don't need to heat it either, so it is much better and lots cheaper.  Even if I had to change it out would be Lots Cheaper.  Right now I am etching one board at a time floating it face down with air pumping into the tank.

Ben

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Simao Cardoso <simaocardoso@...>
wrote:
>
> Also from jj_winkel on 26 apr 09
> "Here in France it is easy and cheap enough to get "masonry" grade
H202
> (35% in weight or 130 in volume) used for wood bleaching and stains
> removal"


Handle with great care and solid rubber gloves.

http://z1.zod.fr/z/h2o2-bouteille-NZM.jpg
<http://z1.zod.fr/z/h2o2-bouteille-NZM.jpg>

http://z1.zod.fr/z/h2o2-etiquette-OZM.jpg
<http://z1.zod.fr/z/h2o2-etiquette-OZM.jpg>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Wow.  Handle with GREAT care, please.  I'm impressed!

Donald.

jj_winkel wrote:

> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Simao Cardoso <simaocardoso@...>
> wrote:
>> Also from jj_winkel on 26 apr 09
>> "Here in France it is easy and cheap enough to get "masonry" grade
> H202
>> (35% in weight or 130 in volume) used for wood bleaching and stains
>> removal"
> 
> 
> Handle with great care and solid rubber gloves.
> 
> http://z1.zod.fr/z/h2o2-bouteille-NZM.jpg
> <http://z1.zod.fr/z/h2o2-bouteille-NZM.jpg>
> 
> http://z1.zod.fr/z/h2o2-etiquette-OZM.jpg
> <http://z1.zod.fr/z/h2o2-etiquette-OZM.jpg>
>