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"Microwaving" Ferric Chloride

"Microwaving" Ferric Chloride

2007-05-19 by Roland F. Harriston

I really don't see a lot of cast-off microwave ovens in my neck of the 
woods.
Not many junk shops here or thrift stores, etc. And I don't think I'd 
want to
spend time schlepping around old microwave ovens just to heat up ferric
chloride! There better methods that are less "brute force".

Additionally, I know that I would not like to have ferric chloride or 
any of its
constituents wafting around in my home or workshop.

Heating the stuff in a domestic microwave oven might be marginally 
acceptable
if one had positive means for controlling temperature and ventilation.

Heating ferric chloride to some temperature slightly above ambient to 
speed up
the etch process is certainly acceptable, and is a common feature of most
professional PCB etch equipment.

If I recall correctly, the Kepro systems that I used during my heyday had
stainless steel encased heating elements in the spray etch tank, and we
used the etch tanks in a room that had a specially designed ventilation 
system.

Nowadays, I use the peroxide/muriatic acid formulation. I use it 
outdoors only.
I heat the etchant very slightly with a heat gun similar to the ones used to
apply heatshrink insulation tubing on wires. Just a slight increase in the
temperature of the etchant does speed up the etch process.

I would never use any of the "popular" etchants inside my home or shop,
and not ever where there are kids, or pets.

Please take note of the "Health Rating" that Mallinckrodt/J.T. Baker, Inc.
has assigned to ferric chloride, along with their other caveats regarding
the use of this stuff, especially the "vent hood" recommendation.

Roland F. Harriston
********************


MSDS Number: *F1060* * * * * * /Effective Date:* 01/19/06* * * * * * 
Supercedes:* 05/07/03*/
------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------------------------------------


  FERRIC CHLORIDE

------------------------------------------------------------------------


    1. Product Identification

    *Synonyms:* Iron chloride hexahydrate; ferric trichloride hexahydrate
    *CAS No.:* 7705-08-0 Anhydrous; (10025-77-1 Hexahydrate)
    *Molecular Weight:* 270.30
    *Chemical Formula:* FeCl3 6H2O
    *Product Codes:*
    J.T. Baker: 1996, 2000
    Mallinckrodt: 5029 

------------------------------------------------------------------------


    2. Composition/Information on Ingredients


  Ingredient                                CAS No         Percent        Hazardous                                  
  ---------------------------------------   ------------   ------------   ---------   
 
  Ferric Chloride                           7705-08-0        90 - 100%       Yes                                                                    
 

------------------------------------------------------------------------


    3. Hazards Identification

    *Emergency Overview*
    --------------------------
    *DANGER! CORROSIVE. CAUSES BURNS TO ANY AREA OF CONTACT. HARMFUL IF
    SWALLOWED OR INHALED. AFFECTS THE LIVER.*

    *SAF-T-DATA^(tm) * Ratings (Provided here for your convenience)
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Health Rating: 3 - Severe (Life)
    Flammability Rating: 0 - None
    Reactivity Rating: 2 - Moderate
    Contact Rating: 3 - Severe (Corrosive)
    Lab Protective Equip: GOGGLES & SHIELD; LAB COAT & APRON; VENT HOOD;
    PROPER GLOVES
    Storage Color Code: White (Corrosive)
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    *Potential Health Effects*
    ----------------------------------

    *Inhalation:*
    Extremely destructive to tissues of the mucous membranes and upper
    respiratory tract. Symptoms may include burning sensation, coughing,
    wheezing, laryngitis, shortness of breath, headache, nausea and
    vomiting.
    *Ingestion:*
    Corrosive. Swallowing can cause severe burns of the mouth, throat,
    and stomach. Can cause sore throat, vomiting, diarrhea. Low toxicity
    in small quantities but larger doses (30 mg/kg) may cause nausea,
    vomiting and diarrhea. Pink urine discoloration is a strong
    indicator of iron poisoning. Liver damage, coma and death may
    follow, sometimes delayed as long as three days.
    *Skin Contact:*
    Corrosive. Symptoms of redness, pain, and severe burn can occur.
    *Eye Contact:*
    Corrosive. Contact can cause blurred vision, redness, pain and
    severe tissue burns.
    *Chronic Exposure:*
    Repeated ingestion may cause liver damage. Prolonged exposure of the
    eyes may cause discoloration.
    *Aggravation of Pre-existing Conditions:*
    No information found. 

------------------------------------------------------------------------


    4. First Aid Measures

    *Inhalation:*
    Remove to fresh air. If not breathing, give artificial respiration.
    If breathing is difficult, give oxygen. Get medical attention
    immediately.
    *Ingestion:*
    If swallowed, DO NOT INDUCE VOMITING. Give large quantities of
    water. Never give anything by mouth to an unconscious person. Get
    medical attention immediately.
    *Skin Contact:*
    Immediately flush skin with plenty of water for at least 15 minutes
    while removing contaminated clothing and shoes. Get medical
    attention immediately. Wash clothing before reuse. Thoroughly clean
    shoes before reuse.
    *Eye Contact:*
    Immediately flush eyes with plenty of water for at least 15 minutes,
    lifting lower and upper eyelids occasionally. Get medical attention
    immediately.

------------------------------------------------------------------------


    5. Fire Fighting Measures

    *Fire:*
    Not considered to be a fire hazard. Irritating hydrogen chloride
    fumes may form in fire.
    *Explosion:*
    Not considered to be an explosion hazard.
    *Fire Extinguishing Media:*
    Water, dry chemical, foam or carbon dioxide. Do not allow water
    runoff to enter sewers or waterways.
    *Special Information:*
    In the event of a fire, wear full protective clothing and
    NIOSH-approved self-contained breathing apparatus with full
    facepiece operated in the pressure demand or other positive pressure
    mode. 

------------------------------------------------------------------------


    6. Accidental Release Measures

    Ventilate area of leak or spill. Keep unnecessary and unprotected
    people away from area of spill. Wear appropriate personal protective
    equipment as specified in Section 8. Spills: Pick up and place in a
    suitable container for reclamation or disposal, using a method that
    does not generate dust. US Regulations (CERCLA) require reporting
    spills and releases to soil, water and air in excess of reportable
    quantities. The toll free number for the US Coast Guard National
    Response Center is (800) 424-8802.


------------------------------------------------------------------------


    7. Handling and Storage

    Keep in a tightly closed container, stored in a cool, dry,
    ventilated area. Protect against physical damage. Isolate from
    incompatible substances. Containers of this material may be
    hazardous when empty since they retain product residues (dust,
    solids); observe all warnings and precautions listed for the product. 

------------------------------------------------------------------------


    8. Exposure Controls/Personal Protection

    *Airborne Exposure Limits:*
    -ACGIH Threshold Limit Value (TLV):
    1 mg/m3 (TWA) soluble iron salt as Fe
    *Ventilation System:*
    A system of local and/or general exhaust is recommended to keep
    employee exposures below the Airborne Exposure Limits. Local exhaust
    ventilation is generally preferred because it can control the
    emissions of the contaminant at its source, preventing dispersion of
    it into the general work area. Please refer to the ACGIH document,
    /Industrial Ventilation, A Manual of Recommended Practices/, most
    recent edition, for details.
    *Personal Respirators (NIOSH Approved):*
    If the exposure limit is exceeded and engineering controls are not
    feasible, a half facepiece particulate respirator (NIOSH type N95 or
    better filters) may be worn for up to ten times the exposure limit
    or the maximum use concentration specified by the appropriate
    regulatory agency or respirator supplier, whichever is lowest.. A
    full-face piece particulate respirator (NIOSH type N100 filters) may
    be worn up to 50 times the exposure limit, or the maximum use
    concentration specified by the appropriate regulatory agency, or
    respirator supplier, whichever is lowest. If oil particles (e.g.
    lubricants, cutting fluids, glycerine, etc.) are present, use a
    NIOSH type R or P filter. For emergencies or instances where the
    exposure levels are not known, use a full-facepiece
    positive-pressure, air-supplied respirator. WARNING: Air-purifying
    respirators do not protect workers in oxygen-deficient atmospheres.
    *Skin Protection:*
    Wear protective gloves and clean body-covering clothing.
    *Eye Protection:*
    Maintain eye wash fountain and quick-drench facilities in work area.
    Use chemical safety goggles and/or full face shield where dusting or
    splashing of solutions is possible.

------------------------------------------------------------------------


    9. Physical and Chemical Properties

    *Appearance:*
    Yellow brown deliquescent crystals.
    *Odor:*
    Slight odor of hydrochloric acid.
    *Solubility:*
    Soluble in water.
    *Density:*
    2.90 @ 25C/4C
    *pH:*
    No information found.
    *% Volatiles by volume @ 21C (70F):*
    0
    *Boiling Point:*
    No information found.
    *Melting Point:*
    37C (99F)
    *Vapor Density (Air=1):*
    No information found.
    *Vapor Pressure (mm Hg):*
    1.1 @ 194C (381F)
    *Evaporation Rate (BuAc=1):*
    No information found.

------------------------------------------------------------------------


    10. Stability and Reactivity

    *Stability:*
    Stable under ordinary conditions of use and storage.
    *Hazardous Decomposition Products:*
    Emits toxic fumes of chloride when heated to decomposition.
    *Hazardous Polymerization:*
    This substance does not polymerize.
    *Incompatibilities:*
    Metals, allyl chloride, sodium, potassium. Will react with water to
    produce toxic and corrosive fumes.
    *Conditions to Avoid:*
    Incompatibles. 

------------------------------------------------------------------------


    11. Toxicological Information


    Oral rat LD50: 316 mg/kg (anhydrous); investigated as a mutagen,
    reproductive effector.

  --------\Cancer Lists\------------------------------------------------------
                                         ---NTP Carcinogen---
  Ingredient                             Known    Anticipated    IARC Category
  ------------------------------------   -----    -----------    -------------
  Ferric Chloride (7705-08-0)             No          No            None

------------------------------------------------------------------------


    12. Ecological Information

    *Environmental Fate:*
    No information found.
    *Environmental Toxicity:*
    24 Hr LC50 striped bass (fingerling): 6 mg/L (static);
    24 Hr LC50 striped bass (larvae): 4 mg/L (static) 

------------------------------------------------------------------------


    13. Disposal Considerations

    Whatever cannot be saved for recovery or recycling should be managed
    in an appropriate and approved waste facility. Although not a listed
    RCRA hazardous waste, this material may exhibit one or more
    characteristics of a hazardous waste and require appropriate
    analysis to determine specific disposal requirements. Processing,
    use or contamination of this product may change the waste management
    options. State and local disposal regulations may differ from
    federal disposal regulations. Dispose of container and unused
    contents in accordance with federal, state and local requirements. 

------------------------------------------------------------------------


    14. Transport Information

    *Domestic (Land, D.O.T.)*
    -----------------------
    *Proper Shipping Name:* CORROSIVE SOLID, ACIDIC, INORGANIC, N.O.S.
    (FERRIC CHLORIDE, 6-HYDRATE)
    *Hazard Class:* 8
    *UN/NA:* UN3260
    Packing Group: III
    *Information reported for product/size:* 220LB

    *International (Water, I.M.O.)*
    -----------------------------
    *Proper Shipping Name:* CORROSIVE SOLID, ACIDIC, INORGANIC, N.O.S.
    (FERRIC CHLORIDE, 6-HYDRATE)
    *Hazard Class:* 8
    *UN/NA:* UN3260
    Packing Group: III
    *Information reported for product/size:* 220LB

    *International (Air, I.C.A.O.)*
    -----------------------------
    *Proper Shipping Name:* CORROSIVE SOLID, ACIDIC, INORGANIC, N.O.S.
    (FERRIC CHLORIDE, 6-HYDRATE)
    *Hazard Class:* 8
    *UN/NA:* UN3260
    Packing Group: III
    *Information reported for product/size:* 220LB

------------------------------------------------------------------------


    15. Regulatory Information

  --------\Chemical Inventory Status - Part 1\---------------------------------
  Ingredient                                       TSCA  EC   Japan  Australia
  -----------------------------------------------  ----  ---  -----  ---------
  Ferric Chloride (7705-08-0)                       Yes  Yes   Yes      Yes                                      
 
  --------\Chemical Inventory Status - Part 2\---------------------------------
                                                          --Canada--
  Ingredient                                       Korea  DSL   NDSL  Phil.
  -----------------------------------------------  -----  ---   ----  -----
  Ferric Chloride (7705-08-0)                       Yes   Yes   No     Yes        
 
  --------\Federal, State & International Regulations - Part 1\----------------
                                             -SARA 302-    ------SARA 313------
  Ingredient                                 RQ    TPQ     List  Chemical Catg.
  -----------------------------------------  ---   -----   ----  --------------
  Ferric Chloride (7705-08-0)                No    No      No         No
 
  --------\Federal, State & International Regulations - Part 2\----------------
                                                        -RCRA-    -TSCA-
  Ingredient                                 CERCLA     261.33     8(d) 
  -----------------------------------------  ------     ------    ------
  Ferric Chloride (7705-08-0)                1000       No         No      
 
 
Chemical Weapons Convention:  No     TSCA 12(b):  No     CDTA:  No
SARA 311/312:  Acute: Yes      Chronic: No   Fire: No  Pressure: No
Reactivity: No          (Pure / Solid) 



    *Australian Hazchem Code:* 2R
    * Poison Schedule:* None allocated.
    *WHMIS:*
    This MSDS has been prepared according to the hazard criteria of the
    Controlled Products Regulations (CPR) and the MSDS contains all of
    the information required by the CPR.

------------------------------------------------------------------------


    16. Other Information

*NFPA Ratings:* Health:* 2* Flammability: * 0* Reactivity: * 0*
*Label Hazard Warning:*
DANGER! CORROSIVE. CAUSES BURNS TO ANY AREA OF CONTACT. HARMFUL IF 
SWALLOWED OR INHALED. AFFECTS THE LIVER.
*Label Precautions:*
Do not get in eyes, on skin, or on clothing.
Do not breathe dust.
Keep container closed.
Use only with adequate ventilation.
Wash thoroughly after handling.
*Label First Aid:*
In case of contact, immediately flush eyes or skin with plenty of water 
for at least 15 minutes while removing contaminated clothing and shoes. 
Wash clothing before reuse. If inhaled, remove to fresh air. If not 
breathing, give artificial respiration. If breathing is difficult, give 
oxygen. If swallowed, DO NOT INDUCE VOMITING. Give large quantities of 
water. Never give anything by mouth to an unconscious person. In all 
cases get medical attention immediately.
*Product Use:*
Laboratory Reagent.
*Revision Information:*
MSDS Section(s) changed since last revision of document include: 3, 11, 12.
*Disclaimer:*
************************************************************************************************ 

*Mallinckrodt Baker, Inc. provides the information contained herein in 
good faith but makes no representation as to its comprehensiveness or 
accuracy. This document is intended only as a guide to the appropriate 
precautionary handling of the material by a properly trained person 
using this product. Individuals receiving the information must exercise 
their independent judgment in determining its appropriateness for a 
particular purpose. MALLINCKRODT BAKER, INC. MAKES NO REPRESENTATIONS OR 
WARRANTIES, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION ANY 
WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE WITH 
RESPECT TO THE INFORMATION SET FORTH HEREIN OR THE PRODUCT TO WHICH THE 
INFORMATION REFERS. ACCORDINGLY, MALLINCKRODT BAKER, INC. WILL NOT BE 
RESPONSIBLE FOR DAMAGES RESULTING FROM USE OF OR RELIANCE UPON THIS 
INFORMATION.*
************************************************************************************************ 

*Prepared by: *Environmental Health & Safety
Phone Number: (314) 654-1600 (


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] "Microwaving" Ferric Chloride

2007-05-19 by Stefan Trethan

On Sat, 19 May 2007 17:45:08 +0200, Roland F. Harriston  
<rolohar@...> wrote:

> I really don't see a lot of cast-off microwave ovens in my neck of the
> woods.
> Not many junk shops here or thrift stores, etc. And I don't think I'd
> want to
> spend time schlepping around old microwave ovens just to heat up ferric
> chloride! There better methods that are less "brute force".


There is no real difference between heating FeCl in a microwave and with  
other means. The heat can be exactly controlled in a microwave because the  
heating power is constant. It's just operator preference as i see it.

I bet it would last all your life (or at least not fail from fume induced  
corrosion) even if FeCl is heated every now and then.

That's not to say that i would like to do it, moving around etchant in  
some container is not the best way IMO.
It ought to stay in a permanent etching tank that is placed in a safe  
location and ready to use. Much less hassle.
Heating can be achieved with an immersion heater (aquarium), or possibly a  
heating foil stuck to the side, or possibly a hose with hot water  
circulated through it immersed in the etchant. But then, i wouldn't want  
to use FeCl myself anyway, and CuCl doesn't really need heating because  
only a very small increase in temperature is reasonable which doesn't make  
much difference.

ST

Re: "Microwaving" Ferric Chloride

2007-05-20 by Richard

THANK you so much for that ENTIRE document; completely
unedited....including all the useless/irrelevant disclaimers,
etc, etc..

Next time, just post a link, ok?  That's how it's done on groups
like this.

thanks

--
============================
Please do NOT attach pictures without contacting me FIRST.
DSL isn't available here.  Do not add address to any lists.
============================

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: "Microwaving" Ferric Chloride

2007-05-21 by kevinmwolf@aol.com

Hey-
Lets keep the attitude professional here. 
Incensere comments are unnecessary.
Thanks and best regards,
-Kevin Wolf
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: metal@...
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, 20 May 2007 11:42 AM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: "Microwaving" Ferric Chloride




THANK you so much for that ENTIRE document; completely
unedited....including all the useless/irrelevant disclaimers,
etc, etc..

Next time, just post a link, ok? That's how it's done on groups
like this.

thanks

--
============================
Please do NOT attach pictures without contacting me FIRST.
DSL isn't available here. Do not add address to any lists.
============================


 
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone.  Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: "Microwaving" Ferric Chloride

2007-05-21 by Tony Smith

Oh, I think his comments were sincere, a little sarcastic perhaps.
Unfortunately sarcasm tends to be lost on pedantic douches who post huge
slabs of crap no-one - not me, not you, not Richard, and not even the bloke
who posted it - is ever going to read.  Kudos to Richard for deleting the
"huge slab of crap no-one is ever going to read" from his reply.  Those on
digest mode will thank you from the depths of their uncluttered inbox.

"Boiling FeCl is probably bad, m'kay" would have done.

Heating is heating, whether it's in a microwave or in your teapot.  The
"huge slab of crap no-one is ever going to read" probably leaves out the
real reason you don't microwave FeCl, and that's your wife will kill you
when you spill it all over the kitchen floor.  She'd kill you even if it
were cold, but that's besides the point.

Tony
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kevinmwolf@...
> Sent: Monday, 21 May 2007 10:42 AM
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: "Microwaving" Ferric Chloride
> 
> Hey-
> Lets keep the attitude professional here. 
> Incensere comments are unnecessary.
> Thanks and best regards,
> -Kevin Wolf
>  
>  
> -----Original Message-----
> From: metal@...
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sun, 20 May 2007 11:42 AM
> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: "Microwaving" Ferric Chloride
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THANK you so much for that ENTIRE document; completely 
> unedited....including all the useless/irrelevant disclaimers, 
> etc, etc..
> 
> Next time, just post a link, ok? That's how it's done on 
> groups like this.
> 
> thanks
> 
> --
> ============================
> Please do NOT attach pictures without contacting me FIRST.
> DSL isn't available here. Do not add address to any lists.
> ============================
> 
> 
>  
> ______________________________________________________________
> __________
> AOL now offers free email to everyone.  Find out more about 
> what's free from AOL at AOL.com.
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, 
> Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> 
> If Files or Photos are running short of space, post them here:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: "Microwaving" Ferric Chloride

2007-05-21 by kevinmwolf@aol.com

Now- I thought I might share my insights on microwaving FeCl.. I no longer use FeCl for obvious reasons. But when I did, I would etch my boards in a shallow pyrex dish. I had great success with microwaving the entire setup- dish, board and all in the microwave. No sparks, fires or splashes. Usually cooked for ~1 min. to get reasonably hot. One thing to watch out for is the caustic gas (esp. when opening micro door)- I personally use a 3M gas mask from home depot whenever I etch to avoid lung injury (hey- I'm 19- I plan to live for a while :)
-k
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: ajsmith@...
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 21 May 2007 8:36 AM
Subject: RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: "Microwaving" Ferric Chloride


Oh, I think his comments were sincere, a little sarcastic perhaps.
Unfortunately sarcasm tends to be lost on pedantic douches who post huge
slabs of crap no-one - not me, not you, not Richard, and not even the bloke
who posted it - is ever going to read. Kudos to Richard for deleting the
"huge slab of crap no-one is ever going to read" from his reply. Those on
digest mode will thank you from the depths of their uncluttered inbox.

"Boiling FeCl is probably bad, m'kay" would have done.

Heating is heating, whether it's in a microwave or in your teapot. The
"huge slab of crap no-one is ever going to read" probably leaves out the
real reason you don't microwave FeCl, and that's your wife will kill you
when you spill it all over the kitchen floor. She'd kill you even if it
were cold, but that's besides the point.

Tony


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kevinmwolf@...
> Sent: Monday, 21 May 2007 10:42 AM
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: "Microwaving" Ferric Chloride
> 
> Hey-
> Lets keep the attitude professional here. 
> Incensere comments are unnecessary.
> Thanks and best regards,
> -Kevin Wolf
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: metal@...
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sun, 20 May 2007 11:42 AM
> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: "Microwaving" Ferric Chloride
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THANK you so much for that ENTIRE document; completely 
> unedited....including all the useless/irrelevant disclaimers, 
> etc, etc..
> 
> Next time, just post a link, ok? That's how it's done on 
> groups like this.
> 
> thanks
> 
> --
> ============================
> Please do NOT attach pictures without contacting me FIRST.
> DSL isn't available here. Do not add address to any lists.
> ============================
> 
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________________
> __________
> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about 
> what's free from AOL at AOL.com.
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, 
> Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> 
> If Files or Photos are running short of space, post them here:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 


 
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone.  Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: "Microwaving" Ferric Chloride

2007-05-21 by Dale Chatham

So much of this depends on the electronics in the microwave oven as well.

Putting large pieces of metals in a microwave tends to create standing 
waves, which if the microwave isn't designed to handle it might destroy 
the microwave.  Or, one size PCB may have no problems, but another is 
just the right size for resonance.

I wouldn't do this on a bad bet.  It's just so much easier to put the 
whole thing into a plastic container and float the container in a hot 
water bath.

And, I certainly wouldn't suggest that a newbie try this for fear of 
having the dickens sued out of me if it causes problems or injury.

If you "gas mask" is one of the filter types, chances are it does 
nothing for the fumes.  You'd have to have an activated charcoal filter 
to do any good and those things absorb even when you aren't wearing 
them, meaning that if you don't replace the carbon frequently, you don't 
really have a mask.  Your fumes are molecular in size and will only be 
taken out with chemical filtration such as activated charcoal.

I say this only to try to get the seriousness of what I see are the 
consequences.  If you really do want to be around a while, this is a 
really bad idea for oh, so many reasons.

kevinmwolf@... wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Now- I thought I might share my insights on microwaving FeCl.. I no longer use FeCl for obvious reasons. But when I did, I would etch my boards in a shallow pyrex dish. I had great success with microwaving the entire setup- dish, board and all in the microwave. No sparks, fires or splashes. Usually cooked for ~1 min. to get reasonably hot. One thing to watch out for is the caustic gas (esp. when opening micro door)- I personally use a 3M gas mask from home depot whenever I etch to avoid lung injury (hey- I'm 19- I plan to live for a while :)
> -k
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: "Microwaving" Ferric Chloride

2007-05-21 by JanRwl@AOL.COM

In a message dated 5/21/2007 8:38:11 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
ajsmith@... writes:

Heating is heating, whether it's in a microwave or in your teapot.  


Not so!  The microwave is merely a "radio transmitter"  which is supposed to 
cause slightly-conductive molecules to "jiggle", the  friction thereof causing 
the heat.  This doesn't work well with a  concentrated FeCl solution simply 
because the solution is HIGHLY conductive, so  the first couple mm. of stuff, 
hit by the RF first, SHIELD the rest from this  energy.  This DOES heat that 
couple mm. mightily.  So, the only way to  heat FeCl properly in a microwave is 
ten seconds at the time, and then STIR the  container between each 10 sec. 
nuking.  This DOES mean opening the  door and fiddling with it six to ten times 
to heat up 100 ml. or so, but it is  the ONLY way to prevent boiling of the 
"edges" and poor heating of the "inside"  of the container of stuff.
 
Do NOT do it with a copper board, etched or not, inside the  microwave!  This 
will simply RUIN things!  Just don't do  it!
 
Been there; DONE  that!            Jan  Rowland



************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: "Microwaving" Ferric Chloride

2007-05-22 by kevinmwolf@aol.com

BTw- Yes, it is one containing the activated charcoal filters. And I do appreciate that extra info.
-k 
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-----Original Message-----
From: dale@...
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 21 May 2007 1:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: "Microwaving" Ferric Chloride


So much of this depends on the electronics in the microwave oven as well.

Putting large pieces of metals in a microwave tends to create standing 
waves, which if the microwave isn't designed to handle it might destroy 
the microwave. Or, one size PCB may have no problems, but another is 
just the right size for resonance.

I wouldn't do this on a bad bet. It's just so much easier to put the 
whole thing into a plastic container and float the container in a hot 
water bath.

And, I certainly wouldn't suggest that a newbie try this for fear of 
having the dickens sued out of me if it causes problems or injury.

If you "gas mask" is one of the filter types, chances are it does 
nothing for the fumes. You'd have to have an activated charcoal filter 
to do any good and those things absorb even when you aren't wearing 
them, meaning that if you don't replace the carbon frequently, you don't 
really have a mask. Your fumes are molecular in size and will only be 
taken out with chemical filtration such as activated charcoal.

I say this only to try to get the seriousness of what I see are the 
consequences. If you really do want to be around a while, this is a 
really bad idea for oh, so many reasons.

kevinmwolf@... wrote:
> Now- I thought I might share my insights on microwaving FeCl.. I no longer use FeCl for obvious reasons. But when I did, I would etch my boards in a shallow pyrex dish. I had great success with microwaving the entire setup- dish, board and all in the microwave. No sparks, fires or splashes. Usually cooked for ~1 min. to get reasonably hot. One thing to watch out for is the caustic gas (esp. when opening micro door)- I personally use a 3M gas mask from home depot whenever I etch to avoid lung injury (hey- I'm 19- I plan to live for a while :)
> -k
> 


 
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: "Microwaving" Ferric Chloride

2007-05-22 by Roland F. Harriston

Also consider the fact that the microwave oven "cooking chamber"
if you want to call it that, is like a waveguide which has
the magnetron sitting at one end. By putting pieces of metal in the
waveguide, reflected power can travel back to the magnetron and wreak havoc.
VSWR goes up and all that kind of stuff. Ferric chloride is, and the 
name implies
"ferrous".

Roland F. Harriston
"The Pedantic Douche"
*************************



kevinmwolf@... wrote:
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>
> BTw- Yes, it is one containing the activated charcoal filters. And I 
> do appreciate that extra info.
> -k
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dale@... <mailto:dale%40chatham.org>
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Mon, 21 May 2007 1:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: "Microwaving" Ferric Chloride
>
> So much of this depends on the electronics in the microwave oven as well.
>
> Putting large pieces of metals in a microwave tends to create standing
> waves, which if the microwave isn't designed to handle it might destroy
> the microwave. Or, one size PCB may have no problems, but another is
> just the right size for resonance.
>
> I wouldn't do this on a bad bet. It's just so much easier to put the
> whole thing into a plastic container and float the container in a hot
> water bath.
>
> And, I certainly wouldn't suggest that a newbie try this for fear of
> having the dickens sued out of me if it causes problems or injury.
>
> If you "gas mask" is one of the filter types, chances are it does
> nothing for the fumes. You'd have to have an activated charcoal filter
> to do any good and those things absorb even when you aren't wearing
> them, meaning that if you don't replace the carbon frequently, you don't
> really have a mask. Your fumes are molecular in size and will only be
> taken out with chemical filtration such as activated charcoal.
>
> I say this only to try to get the seriousness of what I see are the
> consequences. If you really do want to be around a while, this is a
> really bad idea for oh, so many reasons.
>
> kevinmwolf@... <mailto:kevinmwolf%40aol.com> wrote:
> > Now- I thought I might share my insights on microwaving FeCl.. I no 
> longer use FeCl for obvious reasons. But when I did, I would etch my 
> boards in a shallow pyrex dish. I had great success with microwaving 
> the entire setup- dish, board and all in the microwave. No sparks, 
> fires or splashes. Usually cooked for ~1 min. to get reasonably hot. 
> One thing to watch out for is the caustic gas (esp. when opening micro 
> door)- I personally use a 3M gas mask from home depot whenever I etch 
> to avoid lung injury (hey- I'm 19- I plan to live for a while :)
> > -k
> >
>
> __________________________________________________________
> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free 
> from AOL at AOL.com.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: "Microwaving" Ferric Chloride

2007-05-24 by Adam Seychell

kevinmwolf@... wrote:
> 
> 
But when I did, I would etch my
> boards in a shallow pyrex dish. I had great success with microwaving the 
> entire setup- dish, board and all in the microwave. No sparks, fires or 
> splashes. Usually cooked for ~1 min. to get reasonably hot.
 > ...

I've had the same experience, no sparks , boiling, or fizzing of any 
description when microwaving concentrated ferric chloride, in a open 
plastic ice-cream container. My only concern is having my head too close 
above the container of steaming etchant while stroking a paint brush 
over the PCB. I've done the same with ammonium persulfate.
Gloves are mandatory.

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: "Microwaving" Ferric Chloride

2007-05-24 by lists

In article <46560B1A.1060401@...>,
   Adam Seychell <a_seychell@...> wrote:
> 've had the same experience, no sparks , boiling, or fizzing of any 
> description when microwaving concentrated ferric chloride, in a open 
> plastic ice-cream container. My only concern is having my head too close 
> above the container of steaming etchant while stroking a paint brush 
> over the PCB. I've done the same with ammonium persulfate.
> Gloves are mandatory.

I've not used or looked into the properties of Ammonium persulphate but I
have used Ferric Chloride and I'd rate eye protection more important than
gloves any day.

Re: "Microwaving" Ferric Chloride

2007-05-25 by D

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, lists <stuart.winsor.lists@...>
wrote:
>
> I've not used or looked into the properties of Ammonium persulphate
but I
> have used Ferric Chloride and I'd rate eye protection more important
than
> gloves any day.

Definitely!  It burns like H*LL if you splash it in your eye (This is
the voice of experience speaking here!)!

One of the nice things about making boards in your bathroom is that
you can quickly turn the shower on and stick your face in the stream
of water.  Of course, it can be quite embarrassing when your 
significant other comes to check on you (when she hears the shower
running) and finds you showering with your clothes on.  :*)

Dave

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