2001-12-07 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2001-12-08 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2001-12-08 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2001-12-08 by Steve Greenfield
Is this shareware, freeware, or a crack?
Just a caution to everyone, always run your virus
checker on anything you download and remember that you
still run them at your own risk.
And if anyone ever uploads
"FamousTennisPlayer.jpg.vbs", do -not- click on it.
;')
Steve
---
Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> This email message is a notification to let you know
> that
> a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the
> Homebrew_PCBs
> group.
>
> File : /PCB Software/PC Logic/manual.pdf
> Uploaded by : hightechsystems1
> <hightechsystems@...>
> Description : Manual
>
> You can access this file at the URL
>
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/files/PCB%20Software/PC%20Logic/manual.pdf
>
> Regards,
>
> hightechsystems1 <hightechsystems@...>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com2001-12-08 by victor Faria
And if it's a demo what's the limitations?
is it crippled in any way?
I think we should know this before we waste our time to download and then
see that it's not of any use to us.
regards
victor
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Greenfield" <alienrelics@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 4:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] New file uploaded to Homebrew_PCBs
> Is this shareware, freeware, or a crack?
>
> Just a caution to everyone, always run your virus
> checker on anything you download and remember that you
> still run them at your own risk.
>
> And if anyone ever uploads
> "FamousTennisPlayer.jpg.vbs", do -not- click on it.
> ;')
>
> Steve
>
> --- Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > This email message is a notification to let you know
> > that
> > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the
> > Homebrew_PCBs
> > group.
> >
> > File : /PCB Software/PC Logic/manual.pdf
> > Uploaded by : hightechsystems1
> > <hightechsystems@...>
> > Description : Manual
> >
> > You can access this file at the URL
> >
> >
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/files/PCB%20Software/PC%20Logic/
manual.pdf
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > hightechsystems1 <hightechsystems@...>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
> http://greetings.yahoo.com
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
2001-12-08 by High Tech
I don't do crack. It is a demo the only limit is no save but you can print,
export to cam, metafile, bmp. Has auto router, easy to use interface, will
export nc file and Gerber and many more features. It is also cheap to buy if
you like it. I am not affiliated with these people but I like their product.
I found it while searching on the internet. I have been using one of there
first versions for years. If you need more info go to
http://members.aol.com/atpclogic/index.html
Derek B.
-----Original Message-----
From: victor Faria [mailto:
victorf@...]
Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 3:10 PM
To:
Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] New file uploaded to Homebrew_PCBs
And if it's a demo what's the limitations?
is it crippled in any way?
I think we should know this before we waste our time to download and then
see that it's not of any use to us.
regards
victor
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Greenfield" <alienrelics@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 4:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] New file uploaded to Homebrew_PCBs
> Is this shareware, freeware, or a crack?
>
> Just a caution to everyone, always run your virus
> checker on anything you download and remember that you
> still run them at your own risk.
>
> And if anyone ever uploads
> "FamousTennisPlayer.jpg.vbs", do -not- click on it.
> ;')
>
> Steve
>
> --- Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > This email message is a notification to let you know
> > that
> > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the
> > Homebrew_PCBs
> > group.
> >
> > File : /PCB Software/PC Logic/manual.pdf
> > Uploaded by : hightechsystems1
> > <hightechsystems@...>
> > Description : Manual
> >
> > You can access this file at the URL
> >
> >
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/files/PCB%20Software/PC%20Logic/
manual.pdf
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > hightechsystems1 <hightechsystems@...>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
> http://greetings.yahoo.com
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
2001-12-08 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2001-12-09 by JanRwl@AOL.COM
In a message dated 08-Dec-01 16:20:28 Central Standard Time,
victorf@...
writes:
> is it crippled in any way?
> I think we should know this before we waste our time to download and then
> see that it's not of any use to us.
>
AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2002-01-08 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2002-01-09 by Steve Greenfield
So... tell us about this. Freeware, shareware, crack?
BTW, no one here should -ever- need to feel offended
if I ask you this. It is akin to being asked for your
picture ID when paying by check- it is for all our
protection.
I'd prefer a version of this in English. Where is this
from? IE, do you have a weblink?
Steve, moderator
---
Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> This email message is a notification to let you know
> that
> a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the
> Homebrew_PCBs
> group.
>
> File : /PCB Software/TC1-3/tcizip.exe
> Uploaded by : hightechsystems1
> <hightechsystems@...>
> Description : Free PCB layout Software in French
> not crippled has gerber too
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!
http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/2002-01-09 by High Tech
Steve
The web link is in the bookmarks. It is Freeware from the author Bruno
Urbani's web site
http://b.urbani.free.fr/
Derek
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Greenfield [mailto:
alienrelics@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 8:53 PM
To:
Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] New file uploaded to Homebrew_PCBs
So... tell us about this. Freeware, shareware, crack?
BTW, no one here should -ever- need to feel offended
if I ask you this. It is akin to being asked for your
picture ID when paying by check- it is for all our
protection.
I'd prefer a version of this in English. Where is this
from? IE, do you have a weblink?
Steve, moderator
---
Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> This email message is a notification to let you know
> that
> a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the
> Homebrew_PCBs
> group.
>
> File : /PCB Software/TC1-3/tcizip.exe
> Uploaded by : hightechsystems1
> <hightechsystems@...>
> Description : Free PCB layout Software in French
> not crippled has gerber too
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!
http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2002-01-09 by High Tech
Here is the manual us English speaking people have to use the Babel fish to
convert it.
http://etronics.free.fr/dossiers/softs/soft03.htm
Babel fish web trans:
http://world.altavista.com/tr
Derek
-----Original Message-----
From: High Tech [mailto:
hightechsystems@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 9:47 PM
To:
Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] New file uploaded to Homebrew_PCBs
Steve
The web link is in the bookmarks. It is Freeware from the author Bruno
Urbani's web site
http://b.urbani.free.fr/
Derek
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Greenfield [mailto:
alienrelics@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 8:53 PM
To:
Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] New file uploaded to Homebrew_PCBs
So... tell us about this. Freeware, shareware, crack?
BTW, no one here should -ever- need to feel offended
if I ask you this. It is akin to being asked for your
picture ID when paying by check- it is for all our
protection.
I'd prefer a version of this in English. Where is this
from? IE, do you have a weblink?
Steve, moderator
---
Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> This email message is a notification to let you know
> that
> a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the
> Homebrew_PCBs
> group.
>
> File : /PCB Software/TC1-3/tcizip.exe
> Uploaded by : hightechsystems1
> <hightechsystems@...>
> Description : Free PCB layout Software in French
> not crippled has gerber too
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!
http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2002-01-09 by Alan Marconett KM6VV
2002-01-09 by High Tech
I didn't find Eagle that user friendly but that was a few version back. I
will give it a shot again but the French program and the PcLogic, which I
purchased, are simple to use and generate very good boards. Both have Gerber
274x for sending in if you want someone else to make your board.
One of the nice features of PcLogic is you can throw some pads down in the
middle of your drawing.Then you can draw the outline of the part and with a
few clicks make that a part and name it. For $25 you can't beat it for the
lite version if you don't need autorouter.
The French program is for people getting started and need something simple
and free. Everyone knows where the File is at the top, all windows programs
are the same in general and numbers are numbers a Lm339 is a Lm339 in
French.
Derek
-----Original Message-----
From: Alan Marconett KM6VV [mailto:
KM6VV@...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 11:44 AM
To:
Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] New file uploaded to Homebrew_PCBs
Hi Derek,
For English, why not just use Eagle? There are board size restrictions.
Alan KM6VV
High Tech wrote:
>
> Here is the manual us English speaking people have to use the Babel fish
to
> convert it.
> http://etronics.free.fr/dossiers/softs/soft03.htm
> Babel fish web trans:
> http://world.altavista.com/tr
> Derek
> -----Original Message-----
> From: High Tech [mailto:hightechsystems@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 9:47 PM
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] New file uploaded to Homebrew_PCBs
>
> Steve
> The web link is in the bookmarks. It is Freeware from the author Bruno
> Urbani's web site
> http://b.urbani.free.fr/
>
> Derek
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2002-01-09 by Alan Marconett KM6VV
Hi Derek,
I did a quick search for PcLogic, got a .dk, do you have a URL? Or is
it just in French/German?
Alan KM6VV
High Tech wrote:
>
> I didn't find Eagle that user friendly but that was a few version back. I
> will give it a shot again but the French program and the PcLogic, which I
> purchased, are simple to use and generate very good boards. Both have Gerber
> 274x for sending in if you want someone else to make your board.
>
> One of the nice features of PcLogic is you can throw some pads down in the
> middle of your drawing.Then you can draw the outline of the part and with a
> few clicks make that a part and name it. For $25 you can't beat it for the
> lite version if you don't need autorouter.
>
> The French program is for people getting started and need something simple
> and free. Everyone knows where the File is at the top, all windows programs
> are the same in general and numbers are numbers a Lm339 is a Lm339 in
> French.
>
> Derek
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alan Marconett KM6VV [mailto:KM6VV@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 11:44 AM
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] New file uploaded to Homebrew_PCBs
>
> Hi Derek,
>
> For English, why not just use Eagle? There are board size restrictions.
>
> Alan KM6VV
>
> High Tech wrote:
> >
> > Here is the manual us English speaking people have to use the Babel fish
> to
> > convert it.
> > http://etronics.free.fr/dossiers/softs/soft03.htm
> > Babel fish web trans:
> > http://world.altavista.com/tr
> > Derek
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: High Tech [mailto:hightechsystems@...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 9:47 PM
> > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] New file uploaded to Homebrew_PCBs
> >
> > Steve
> > The web link is in the bookmarks. It is Freeware from the author Bruno
> > Urbani's web site
> > http://b.urbani.free.fr/
> >
> > Derek
2002-01-10 by High Tech
Alan
They are in the group bookmarks I have to say Steve did a very good job of
making the bookmarks.
Everyone should take a look in there, lots of info.
If you can't get to it here is the URL you wanted.
http://members.aol.com/atpclogic/index.html
Derek
-----Original Message-----
From: Alan Marconett KM6VV [mailto:
KM6VV@...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 2:53 PM
To:
Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] New file uploaded to Homebrew_PCBs
Hi Derek,
I did a quick search for PcLogic, got a .dk, do you have a URL? Or is
it just in French/German?
Alan KM6VV
High Tech wrote:
>
> I didn't find Eagle that user friendly but that was a few version back.
I
> will give it a shot again but the French program and the PcLogic, which
I
> purchased, are simple to use and generate very good boards. Both have
Gerber
> 274x for sending in if you want someone else to make your board.
>
> One of the nice features of PcLogic is you can throw some pads down in
the
> middle of your drawing.Then you can draw the outline of the part and
with a
> few clicks make that a part and name it. For $25 you can't beat it for
the
> lite version if you don't need autorouter.
>
> The French program is for people getting started and need something
simple
> and free. Everyone knows where the File is at the top, all windows
programs
> are the same in general and numbers are numbers a Lm339 is a Lm339 in
> French.
>
> Derek
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alan Marconett KM6VV [mailto:KM6VV@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 11:44 AM
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] New file uploaded to Homebrew_PCBs
>
> Hi Derek,
>
> For English, why not just use Eagle? There are board size
restrictions.
>
> Alan KM6VV
>
> High Tech wrote:
> >
> > Here is the manual us English speaking people have to use the Babel
fish
> to
> > convert it.
> > http://etronics.free.fr/dossiers/softs/soft03.htm
> > Babel fish web trans:
> > http://world.altavista.com/tr
> > Derek
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: High Tech [mailto:hightechsystems@...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 9:47 PM
> > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] New file uploaded to Homebrew_PCBs
> >
> > Steve
> > The web link is in the bookmarks. It is Freeware from the author
Bruno
> > Urbani's web site
> > http://b.urbani.free.fr/
> >
> > Derek
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2002-01-10 by Alan Marconett KM6VV
Thanks Derek,
I have looked at the Yahoo groups for a while, and never before did I
notice bookmarks (and I'm on several lists)! Well, ya learn something
every day! At least I try to!
Alan KM6VV
High Tech wrote:
>
> Alan
> They are in the group bookmarks I have to say Steve did a very good job of
> making the bookmarks.
> Everyone should take a look in there, lots of info.
> If you can't get to it here is the URL you wanted.
> http://members.aol.com/atpclogic/index.html
>
> Derek
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alan Marconett KM6VV [mailto:KM6VV@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 2:53 PM
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] New file uploaded to Homebrew_PCBs
>
> Hi Derek,
>
> I did a quick search for PcLogic, got a .dk, do you have a URL? Or is
> it just in French/German?
>
> Alan KM6VV
2002-01-10 by Steve Greenfield
Really? I think most people don't notice them, many
groups have no bookmarks.
I love 'em- look in my group, Mad Scientist, and I've
put dozens of them up.
Steve
--- Alan Marconett KM6VV <
KM6VV@...> wrote:
> Thanks Derek,
>
> I have looked at the Yahoo groups for a while, and
> never before did I
> notice bookmarks (and I'm on several lists)! Well,
> ya learn something
> every day! At least I try to!
__________________________________________________
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Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!
http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/2002-03-03 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2002-03-06 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2002-03-22 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2002-04-16 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2002-04-16 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2002-04-18 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2002-05-01 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2002-05-01 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2002-05-02 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2002-05-03 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2002-05-28 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2002-05-30 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2002-05-30 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2002-05-30 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2002-08-02 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2003-05-26 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2003-05-26 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2003-05-26 by Steve Greenfield
2003-05-26 by John Myszkowski
Thanks Steve,
That was dumb of me.
I knew about the spaces, but it just slipped my mind. Thanks
again... :)
John M...
===============
--- In
Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Steve Greenfield
<alienrelics@y...> wrote:
> Very nice!
>
> I seem to have problems at times viewing files when the directory
> or file names have spaces in them. I've changed your directory name
> to use underscores in place of spaces.
>
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/files/A_direct_Hot_Foil_me
thod/
>
> Steve
>
2003-05-26 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2003-05-26 by JanRwl@AOL.COM
2003-05-26 by JanRwl@AOL.COM
2003-05-26 by Dave Hylands
2003-05-27 by John Myszkowski
2003-07-11 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2003-07-11 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Hello,
This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the Homebrew_PCBs
group.
File : /booster/booster.gif
Uploaded by : farnell_mark <
farnell_mark@...>
Description : a simple booster. I suspect the positive TxD signal from an ATX motherboard fails to drive the positive side of the transistors. Do you think that this can be solved by swapping the signal transistor with the 390R on both side, as in booster2.gif?
You can access this file at the URL
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/files/booster/booster.gif
To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
Regards,
farnell_mark <
farnell_mark@...>
2003-07-11 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2003-07-11 by Zoran A. Scepanovic
Hello Steve,
SG> Steve, the moderator
The group OWNER!
--
Best Regards,
Zoran
mailto:
zasto@...2003-07-11 by Steve Greenfield
This would be On Topic on Electronics_101 or Advanced_Electronics.
It is Off Topic here.
Steve, the moderator
--- Yahoo! Groups Notification <
notify@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> This email message is a notification to let you know that
> a file has been uploaded to the Files area of your Homebrew_PCBs
> group.
>
> File : /booster/booster.gif
> Uploaded by : farnell_mark <farnell_mark@...>
> Description : a simple booster. I suspect the positive TxD
> signal from an ATX motherboard fails to drive the positive side
> of the transistors. Do you think that this can be solved by
> swapping the signal transistor with the 390R on both side, as in
> booster2.gif?
>
> You can access the file at the URL
>
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/files/booster/booster.gif
>
>
> Your group is currently configured to send you email
> notification whenever a member uploads a file. To turn off
> notification, visit
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/join
>
> Thank you for choosing Yahoo! Groups as your email group
> service for the Homebrew_PCBs group.
>
> Regards,
>
> Yahoo! Groups Customer Care
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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>
>
>
>
>
>
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http://sbc.yahoo.com2003-07-11 by Stefan Trethan
come on steve...
did you delete the scematic or isn't it working because of some other
reason?
i really wanted to see this train thingy....
but you are right, off topic it maybe is..
st
2003-07-12 by Steve
It is gone. Sorry, I'm quick on the draw 'cause I'm set to Digest
mode, so I don't see anything until a day has passed, usually. I admin
a dozen lists and am on about 80 or 100 lists total so I don't waste
time. ;')
I was serious, and not meaning it in a harsh way, that Electronics_101
or Advanced_Electronics groups are a much better place to ask those
questions.
Steve, too much coffee moderator.
--- In
Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Trethan
<stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:
> come on steve...
>
> did you delete the scematic or isn't it working because of some other
> reason?
> i really wanted to see this train thingy....
>
> but you are right, off topic it maybe is..
>
> st
2003-07-12 by Steve
--- In
Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Zoran A. Scepanovic"
<zasto@y...> wrote:
> Hello Steve,
>
> SG> Steve, the moderator
>
> The group OWNER!
> --
> Best Regards,
> Zoran
> mailto:zasto@y...
I try to be a moderate owner.
Steve
2003-07-12 by JanRwl@AOL.COM
Mark:
It STILL doesn't "show".
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2003-07-12 by JanRwl@AOL.COM
Mark:
I continue to get THIS message whenever I try any of your repeated attempts
to announce the contribution:
> The requested file or directory is not found on the server.
Jan Rowland
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2003-07-12 by Steve
That is because I deleted them. I think he should upload them to
Electronics_101 and ask there.
No offense, just off topic.
Steve
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, JanRwl@A... wrote:
> Mark:
>
> I continue to get THIS message whenever I try any of your repeated
attempts
> to announce the contribution:
>
>
> > The requested file or directory is not found on the server.
>
> Jan Rowland
2003-08-03 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2003-08-04 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2003-11-08 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2003-11-08 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2003-11-12 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2003-11-15 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2003-12-01 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2003-12-02 by roel_cnc
depending on the strengt of the chems you should ad the fallue from
sulfuric acid (even car battery acid is per country different)
instead of a volumic messure you could use grams i think :)
anyway thanks for the recepy :)
Roel
--- In
Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com,
Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> This email message is a notification to let you know that
> a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the Homebrew_PCBs
> group.
>
> File : /Plating/ElectrolessTinPlate.txt
> Uploaded by : alienrelics <alienrelics@y...>
> Description : Making your own electroless tin plate solution by
Marvin Dickens
>
> You can access this file at the URL
>
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/files/Plating/ElectrolessT
inPlate.txt
>
> To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit
>
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
>
> Regards,
>
> alienrelics <alienrelics@y...>
2003-12-12 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2003-12-14 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2004-01-29 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2004-01-29 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2004-01-29 by Steve
2004-01-31 by jagjot singh
Hi friends ,
I am looking for some very basic information about pcb designing like all about 90 or 45 bend , where 2 put corners , what should be the thickness of the trace . Can you suggest a book or a link where i find all this info . You see the problem is that i have designed a board layout of a circuit in autotrax in which i have done manual routing ( this is my first design ) so i just want to verify if my design is correct .
Thanking you ,
sunny
Yahoo! India Mobile: Ringtones, Wallpapers, Picture Messages and more.Download now.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2004-01-31 by Stefan Trethan
On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 14:39:40 +0000 (GMT), jagjot singh
<
mundasocute2000@...> wrote:
> Hi friends ,
> I am looking for some very basic information about pcb
> designing sunny
>
ALWAYS CHANGE THE SUBJECT LINE OR NOBODY WILL ANSWER!
I have no url or book for you (sorry) because i learned that in school but
i want to add the following:
These "rules" like 90/45 degree bend etc. sometimes come from only very
special methods of
manufacturing the pcb (like "acid traps" occur only with tin plating as a
resist).
Or they are only true for certain applications (like very high frequency).
Always think yourself why you should do things a certain way, and if
someone says "do it that
way" always ask him why. This also greatly increases the chance that you
remember it.
Always ask why.
To add some information that may be of use for you:
Track with (minimum) is either determined by the current carrying capacity
or minimum
track with of pcb manufacturing process, whichever is more.
I use only 45degree bends, because it looks better, but on a pcb are so
many 90degree edges
(like when 3 tracks join or at each solder pad) that there is not really a
good reason
for not using 90 degree bends.
Keep the track spacing (and spacing to pads) in mind, it is determined by
maximum voltage
or manufacturing process, whichever is more.
where to put corners you asked, well, i would say whenever your track has
to change direction ;-).
Make the solder pads large enough (they have to mechanically carry the
component),
and make the board "look good". I wrote before, i think routing (and
placing) is an art.
some disagreed, but i still think so.
If you have questions, feel free to ask, and i hope somebody suggest a
book or a url.
You may also upload your autotrax design (as a picture) in the files
section and
maybe some will have a look on it and suggest changes if needed.
We are no "layout verifiers" here but i think this is ok.
Stefan
Oh, yes, if it was not clear above:
ALWAYS CHANGE THE SUBJECT LINE TO SOMETHING MAKING SENSE!
2004-01-31 by Stefan Trethan
Hi all,
I have a question about TT.
The today's board i had to transfer twice, and even the second time was
not perfect.
The toner did not stick in places, and was very brittle. it came off in
hard "plates".
I had this effect a week ago with the last pcb too, but only very light.
this week the first transfer was not useable at all.
I have not changed anything and several boards worked very well before.
WHY? HELP?
I do not want to be placed back to the starting line again, it worked so
well already.
I did the cleaning as always, very fine sanding paper and then degreasing
with solvent.
Any ideas welcome. If it does stay that bad i have to go back to
experimenting again.
(changing one variable at the time and checking)
I would like to avoid this, if i can pinpoint the source of the problem in
another way.
I did not change the toner, or the paper, or anything. the toner is so
brittle
if you correct spots with a ohp pen it scratches off the adjacent toner.
With my previous boards the toner appeared more like plastic, flexible.
Thanks for any hint..
ST
2004-01-31 by Dave Mucha
>
> > Hi friends ,
> > I am looking for some very basic information about pcb
> > designing...
> > sunny
> >
>
> ALWAYS CHANGE THE SUBJECT LINE OR NOBODY WILL ANSWER!
I agree, changing the subject line makes understanding the post much
easier and if there has been a thread of some duration, many people
do not read all the responses is they have no interest in the topic.
That loses 3/4 of the readers. Second, it can rarely be found in a
search. Again, not good.
So,
always change the subject line.
As for corners, for home brew espically, the time in the etching
solution will undercut the resist and 90 degree corners are the most
suseptable to being reduced in size to the point of being too small
to carry the load.
In CAD programs, one can often have a auto-champher that will take
those 90 degree and make them 45 deg. If you are concerned, create a
triangle and just paste it into each corner.
My other rules of making traces is that they can never be too big,
but can be too small !
Start larger than you need and only reduce when you need to.
Avoid running between pads if the routing is not too much trouble.
If you have room, put elongated pads by your chips. It is often
possible to come back and drill a tiny hole for a resistor or cap
to 'fix' an oversite.
Dave
ps: the following is good advise, just in case no one else mentioned
it.....
> ALWAYS CHANGE THE SUBJECT LINE TO SOMETHING MAKING SENSE!
2004-02-02 by Tony Smith
90 degrees bends are bad as the trace will act as a mini antenna. You might
think you won't have a problem since you not doing radio or high frequency
stuff, but you will.
The trace will both radiate & receive RF. It may sound odd, but low-speed
switch can contain high-speed noise, leading to glitches.
10, 20, 40 MHz speeds are becoming common in hobby apps.
You won't get bitten often, but you will get 'odd' problems, such as 'my
board fails when I breathe on it!' (capacitance problem) and 'fails outside
my house' (local transmitter interference).
Whatever happened to the groovy curved traces from years back (old
calculators, etc). Well, apart from no hand layout!
Tony
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 16:45:21 +0100
From: Stefan Trethan <
stefan_trethan@...>
Subject: Re: Sunny making his first PCB
On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 14:39:40 +0000 (GMT), jagjot singh
<
mundasocute2000@...> wrote:
> Hi friends ,
> I am looking for some very basic information about pcb
> designing sunny
>
ALWAYS CHANGE THE SUBJECT LINE OR NOBODY WILL ANSWER!
I have no url or book for you (sorry) because i learned that in school but
i want to add the following:
These "rules" like 90/45 degree bend etc. sometimes come from only very
special methods of
manufacturing the pcb (like "acid traps" occur only with tin plating as a
resist).
Or they are only true for certain applications (like very high frequency).
Always think yourself why you should do things a certain way, and if
someone says "do it that
way" always ask him why. This also greatly increases the chance that you
remember it.
...
I use only 45degree bends, because it looks better, but on a pcb are so
many 90degree edges
(like when 3 tracks join or at each solder pad) that there is not really a
good reason
for not using 90 degree bends.
...
2004-02-02 by Leon Heller
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Smith" <ajsmith@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 5:11 PM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Sunny making his first PCB
> 90 degrees bends are bad as the trace will act as a mini antenna. You
might
> think you won't have a problem since you not doing radio or high frequency
> stuff, but you will.
>
> The trace will both radiate & receive RF. It may sound odd, but low-speed
> switch can contain high-speed noise, leading to glitches.
>
> 10, 20, 40 MHz speeds are becoming common in hobby apps.
>
> You won't get bitten often, but you will get 'odd' problems, such as 'my
> board fails when I breathe on it!' (capacitance problem) and 'fails
outside
> my house' (local transmitter interference).
>
> Whatever happened to the groovy curved traces from years back (old
> calculators, etc). Well, apart from no hand layout!
I can do curved tracks with the PCB software I use (Pulsonix).
Leon
--
Leon Heller, G1HSM
Email: aqzf13@...
My low-cost Philips LPC210x ARM development system:
http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller/lpc2104.html
2004-02-02 by dkesterline
--- In
Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Tony Smith" <ajsmith@r...>
wrote:
> 90 degrees bends are bad as the trace will act as a mini antenna.
You might
> think you won't have a problem since you not doing radio or high
frequency
> stuff, but you will.
>
> The trace will both radiate & receive RF. It may sound odd, but
low-speed
> switch can contain high-speed noise, leading to glitches.
>
> 10, 20, 40 MHz speeds are becoming common in hobby apps.
>
> You won't get bitten often, but you will get 'odd' problems, such
as 'my
> board fails when I breathe on it!' (capacitance problem) and 'fails
outside
> my house' (local transmitter interference).
>
> Whatever happened to the groovy curved traces from years back (old
> calculators, etc). Well, apart from no hand layout!
>
> Tony
>trim<
The new version of Eagle can do curves. I recently built a PCB for a
PLD programmer with curves. (looks prety cool too :-)
-Denny
2004-02-03 by Ben H. Lanmon
>
> I can do curved tracks with the PCB software I use (Pulsonix).
>
I use Ivex WinBoard, can be set to 90, 45, any angle and arc. I
normally use the 45 deg. angle setting for traces. When designing
modules of compontents then I use all the above settings depending
on what shape I want.
Ben
2004-02-26 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2004-02-26 by Stefan Trethan
Nice Image.
It seems there is some "shorting out the HV" to be seen.
which end went through first?
the section with the crossing lines is interesting. suddenly it seems it
worked on one place.
This is not useable at all like it is, that is clear.
But it shows it even works a bit without modifications.
I think if we can manage to move the copper close enough past the drum
(which means enveloping the edges in tape and letting this touch the drum)
and if further the voltages are correct it must work.
The image is already on the drum correctly, with the right amount of
toner. all left
to do is to transfer it to copper instead of paper.
I had the following thought:
the drum is aluminium, right? and there is only this thin layer of
"plastic".
if we simply connect the corona wire voltage to the pcb surface wouldn't
that spark
through the photosensitive layer?
ST
On 26 Feb 2004 03:52:20 -0000, <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> This email message is a notification to let you know that
> a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the Homebrew_PCBs
> group.
>
> File : /LaserOnCopper.jpg
> Uploaded by : superintendent_god_botherer2000 <bfp@...>
> Description : direct laser print on copper foil test
>
> You can access this file at the URL
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/files/LaserOnCopper.jpg
>
> To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit
>
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
>
> Regards,
>
> superintendent_god_botherer2000 <bfp@...>
>
2004-02-26 by Jan Kok
I recall seeing an article about printing directly onto thin copper
sheets using ordinary laser printers. This was in some popular
(British? or American) electronics hobby magazine around 1994. There is
some sort of copper sheet with plastic backing that could be obtained
for $100 (maybe much less, my memory is fuzzy) for 10 sheets or so. The
sheets could be printed, etched, drilled and used.
The article mentioned printing your pattern on a regular sheet of paper,
then cutting out a piece of the copper sheet, taping it over the printed
pattern on the paper (copper side facing out :-), and running it through
the printer again so that the pattern is printed onto the copper sheet.
I remember thinking, "I won't do that with MY laser printer!" But it
occurs to me now, that if all four edges of the copper are flat and
covered with tape, it should be reasonably safe for the printer.
There is a kind of cellophane tape used by people who work with
photographic film (for example printing shops). The tape is thinner
than most tape, adheres strongly, and tends to not leave adhesive behind
when removed. That might be a good tape to use for taping copper sheets
to paper for laser printing.
There has been discussion in other threads about whether printing
directly to copper in a laser printer can work, given that copper is
conductive. I don't know why it apparently works, but maybe it has to
do with the paper or plastic insulating backing.
Cheers,
- Jan
2004-02-26 by Phil
this sounds more like using the fuser in the LP to do the toner
transfer.
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Jan Kok" <kok@s...> wrote:
> I recall seeing an article about printing directly onto thin copper
> sheets using ordinary laser printers. This was in some popular
> (British? or American) electronics hobby magazine around 1994.
There is
> some sort of copper sheet with plastic backing that could be
obtained
> for $100 (maybe much less, my memory is fuzzy) for 10 sheets or
so. The
> sheets could be printed, etched, drilled and used.
>
> The article mentioned printing your pattern on a regular sheet of
paper,
> then cutting out a piece of the copper sheet, taping it over the
printed
> pattern on the paper (copper side facing out :-), and running it
through
> the printer again so that the pattern is printed onto the copper
sheet.
>
> I remember thinking, "I won't do that with MY laser printer!" But
it
> occurs to me now, that if all four edges of the copper are flat and
> covered with tape, it should be reasonably safe for the printer.
>
> There is a kind of cellophane tape used by people who work with
> photographic film (for example printing shops). The tape is thinner
> than most tape, adheres strongly, and tends to not leave adhesive
behind
> when removed. That might be a good tape to use for taping copper
sheets
> to paper for laser printing.
>
> There has been discussion in other threads about whether printing
> directly to copper in a laser printer can work, given that copper is
> conductive. I don't know why it apparently works, but maybe it has
to
> do with the paper or plastic insulating backing.
>
> Cheers,
> - Jan
2004-02-26 by Stefan Trethan
On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 15:43:49 -0000, Phil <
phil1960us@...> wrote:
> this sounds more like using the fuser in the LP to do the toner
> transfer.
>
No, i think it is more like "on which spot should i place the copper".
I do that regularly with the photo paper for toner transfer.
i print on paper, check one last time, and then tape a small piece of
photo paper
just over the spot. then i feed the sheet through again and print on the
photo paper this time.
i never noticed any sticking/transfer between the sheet of paper and the
back of the
photo paper. i think the fusing is too fast to bring the heat that far
into the paper.
transferring with one pass in a standard speed standard heat fuser is
impossible in my opinion.
i doubt that even two thin sheets of office paper could be tacked with the
printed sides together
this way.
ST
2004-02-26 by Stefan Trethan
> I don't know why it apparently works, but maybe it has to
> do with the paper or plastic insulating backing.
>
> Cheers,
> - Jan
I can only speak for my IIID and with that printer the top/pritned side is
grounded 1 cm in front of the
corona wire. the paper passes between a metal blade on the top and a
rubber roller on the bottom.
So if the paper is say halfway through the drum the last portion will
still have contace
to the metal blade, while one part is over the corona wire and another
part is already at the drum.
My guess is that it works because some of the toner is transferred from
the drum to the copper
even if there is no corona voltage present (the paper is uncharged).
I wanted to test this yesterday, but the printer refused to work when i
took out the corona wire
assembly.
Just imagine it, you have the drum, with the toner sticking to the charged
portions.
then the copper comes along, touching drum and toner.
when touching the drum is discharged locally, so there is a 50/50 chance
the toner will
stay on the copper.
hmmmm doesn't work this theory. that would mean the charging of the paper
is unnecessary because
the charge will equalize at contact with the drum.
this in turn means the corona wire is useless, which is ridiculus because
they would not have one then.
Damn, i don't know.
How does this really work?
ST
2004-02-26 by Jan Kok
Stefan wrote:
> hmmmm doesn't work this theory. that would mean the charging of the
paper
> is unnecessary because
> the charge will equalize at contact with the drum.
> this in turn means the corona wire is useless, which is ridiculus
because
> they would not have one then.
>
> Damn, i don't know.
>
> How does this really work?
Black magic :-) I understand it took many years of development to get
from idea to working Xerox copier.
For that matter, how does an electrostatic precipitator work? Say a
dust particle picks up a positive charge and is attracted to a negative
electrode. As soon as it touches the electrode, it should get a
negative charge and be repelled from the electrode, right? Why do the
dust particles continue to stick to the electrodes, which are typically
clean bare metal, no glue or anything to hold the dust on the
electrodes?
Cheers,
- Jan
2004-02-26 by Dave Mucha
> Say a
> dust particle picks up a positive charge and is attracted to a
negative
> electrode. As soon as it touches the electrode, it should get a
> negative charge and be repelled from the electrode, right? Why do
the
> dust particles continue to stick to the electrodes, which are
typically
> clean bare metal, no glue or anything to hold the dust on the
> electrodes?
>
> Cheers,
> - Jan
Figure that one out and my wife will remember you forever !
Dave
2004-02-26 by Mike Nash
This is a decent explanation of how a laser printer works:
http://home.att.net/~t.f.cook/tc11.htm
I also seem to remember that in the early days at least, there were two
different types of toner because the laser printers tended to be the reverse
polarities on the coronas than the copiers.
Mike Nash
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jan Kok" <kok@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 12:20 PM
Subject: RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] running copper sheets through laser printer
> Stefan wrote:
> > hmmmm doesn't work this theory. that would mean the charging of the
> paper
> > is unnecessary because
> > the charge will equalize at contact with the drum.
> > this in turn means the corona wire is useless, which is ridiculus
> because
> > they would not have one then.
> >
> > Damn, i don't know.
> >
> > How does this really work?
>
> Black magic :-) I understand it took many years of development to get
> from idea to working Xerox copier.
>
> For that matter, how does an electrostatic precipitator work? Say a
> dust particle picks up a positive charge and is attracted to a negative
> electrode. As soon as it touches the electrode, it should get a
> negative charge and be repelled from the electrode, right? Why do the
> dust particles continue to stick to the electrodes, which are typically
> clean bare metal, no glue or anything to hold the dust on the
> electrodes?
>
> Cheers,
> - Jan
>
>
>
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
2004-02-26 by Alan King
Jan Kok wrote:
> Stefan wrote:
>
>>hmmmm doesn't work this theory. that would mean the charging of the
>
> paper
>
>>is unnecessary because
>>the charge will equalize at contact with the drum.
>>this in turn means the corona wire is useless, which is ridiculus
The drum coating is a high insulator to hold the charge in place and then
have the laser only discharge parts of it. Should be a much better insulator
than the corona wire charge can do by default. Even though the charge
'equalizes' it may still do so by pulling the toner and charge off the drum,
which is clearly how it happens for it to work..
>
> because
>
>>they would not have one then.
>>
>>Damn, i don't know.
>>
>>How does this really work?
Um, DUH, I should have thought of this sooner, I used to use this site quite
a bit for a memory refresher when discussing such topics. Haven't looked at the
site in a while though so forgot. Seems a bit slow right now though. Near the
bottom table of contents the 'Lots more information' looks promising.. :) I
think we could all stand a bit of reading just to clarify, I know it's been a
while since I looked at the process fully. Damn I want to find the printer they
used for their first page drawing now, punch a hole in the back and it's nearly
perfectly straight, could do copper board.
http://computer.howstuffworks.com/laser-printer.htm
Looking more this is a very good page, as are most of their's..
>
>
> Black magic :-) I understand it took many years of development to get
> from idea to working Xerox copier.
>
> For that matter, how does an electrostatic precipitator work? Say a
> dust particle picks up a positive charge and is attracted to a negative
> electrode. As soon as it touches the electrode, it should get a
> negative charge and be repelled from the electrode, right? Why do the
> dust particles continue to stick to the electrodes, which are typically
> clean bare metal, no glue or anything to hold the dust on the
> electrodes?
>
> Cheers,
> - Jan
Remember it's not one atom and many things are highly insulative. You can
easily have it hit, that side charge the other way, and still the whole overall
particle is still attracted by the rest of its charge. The whole reason the
dust has a basic charge in the first place is it's so insulative, and some of
the electrons are stripped away when it seperates. You don't get much of a
charge on metal flakes etc. Even if a few electrons are stripped as it's being
seperated, they move back around through the metal and flake and even out until
the very last point of contact is lost. Most things like paint etc that use
electrostatic processes are good insulators, only the base object being painted
is a conductor.
2004-02-26 by Stefan Trethan
> The drum coating is a high insulator to hold the charge in place and
> then
> have the laser only discharge parts of it. Should be a much better
> insulator
> than the corona wire charge can do by default. Even though the charge
> 'equalizes' it may still do so by pulling the toner and charge off the
> drum,
> which is clearly how it happens for it to work..
>
>
I think very along this lines.
however in one of the recent links provided there is written about this:
if the detach wire would have a dc voltage it would smear the image.
so it has a ac voltage.
Now, i really wonder a lot about this statement....
But my IIID has no detach, and we need none because the copper is flat.
Still, the charge equalizes, and is a dc charge (of course).
so why then should a dc detach smear the image and a dc transfer not?
strange things are happening in there. most likely dark magic really...
I somehow doubt the toner density can be increased so much that there is
enoug
even if only half is transferred. (nice sentence...)
I wonder if the charge needs to be really high, i do not know how much of
the 6kV
of the corona wire is effectively charged onto the paper, or drum.
maybe a lower voltage works?
the second thing is how to charge the pcb, maybe a piece of wire dragging
over
the surface just before the drum may work.
maybe also a piece of aluminium foil taped onto the surface would work...
(I measured aluminium foil and both sides seem to have no oxyde at all.)
All strange and funny things going on here and i do not really know what
is to be
done now. i will look out for a printer and think in the meanwhile..
maybe we should try to convert a printer to get the pcb charged and see if
there
is more toner transferred....
ST
2004-02-26 by Alan King
Stefan Trethan wrote:
>> The drum coating is a high insulator to hold the charge in place and
>>then
>>have the laser only discharge parts of it. Should be a much better
>>insulator
>>than the corona wire charge can do by default. Even though the charge
>>'equalizes' it may still do so by pulling the toner and charge off the
>>drum,
>>which is clearly how it happens for it to work..
>>
>>
>
> I think very along this lines.
> however in one of the recent links provided there is written about this:
>
> if the detach wire would have a dc voltage it would smear the image.
> so it has a ac voltage.
>
> Now, i really wonder a lot about this statement....
>
> But my IIID has no detach, and we need none because the copper is flat.
Hmm maybe that is why the ozone smell and feel on some older laser printers,
no discharge wire.
>
> Still, the charge equalizes, and is a dc charge (of course).
> so why then should a dc detach smear the image and a dc transfer not?
Since you don't know how much image you have exactly, the AC does a better
job of discharging since you don't know exactly how much charge to discharge.
It's just more 'guaranteed to be close to evenly discharged' than an opposite
charge vs not exactly known incoming charge. More less thought in the process
than great advantages I think, although a solid charge might move some toner a
bit etc.
>
> I somehow doubt the toner density can be increased so much that there is
> enoug
> even if only half is transferred. (nice sentence...)
I don't think it's needed, even half of what's on a page is fine to protect
the copper if it's even and well adhered. I've had plenty of prints where parts
had half still stick to the page but still etched fine. I think if we just get
even most of a normal print on the copper it'll be great, no real need to
enhance the amount over that. I'm thinking more towards getting it to print
right than making it more now.
>
> I wonder if the charge needs to be really high, i do not know how much of
> the 6kV
> of the corona wire is effectively charged onto the paper, or drum.
> maybe a lower voltage works?
>
> the second thing is how to charge the pcb, maybe a piece of wire dragging
> over
> the surface just before the drum may work.
> maybe also a piece of aluminium foil taped onto the surface would work...
>
> (I measured aluminium foil and both sides seem to have no oxyde at all.)
>
> All strange and funny things going on here and i do not really know what
> is to be
> done now. i will look out for a printer and think in the meanwhile..
>
> maybe we should try to convert a printer to get the pcb charged and see if
> there
> is more toner transferred....
>
Yep I'm thinking the same things, just a drag contact and maybe even try the
charge well over normal with a seperate supply. Shouldn't take much of a supply
since it's just charging to a static charge. May take some experimenting to see
what actually works but it looks like it should work well.
Alignment for doing double sided on a single board might be a bear though.
But still is no real problem at all. Get the thin laminate stock and print 2
boards, then just drill two corner holes for alignment and glue together and
drill etc as normal with your own laminated board. Should be easy enough, but
much of my stuff is designed single sided surface mount now anyway for ease of
construction.
Alan
2004-02-27 by Russell Shaw
Mike Nash wrote:
> This is a decent explanation of how a laser printer works:
>
> http://home.att.net/~t.f.cook/tc11.htm
This article is crap.
Photosensitve drum has a high voltage that is provided by the high voltage
power supply that charges the drum opposite of what the laser beam is
charged,
Since when have photons had charge?
so that the laser will charge dots on the drum that will form
the image of what is to be printed on the drum and is charged this way by
the primary corona wire.
The laser doesn't charge the drum, and the image forming mechanism of
the drum coating isn't even mentioned.
> I also seem to remember that in the early days at least, there were two
> different types of toner because the laser printers tended to be the reverse
> polarities on the coronas than the copiers.
2004-02-27 by Brian Pitt
the end with the pins and traces was first and that was were it stuck best
for I'm guessing the circumference of the drum after that it started getting
dropouts and low toner density and then picked back up near the end
for some reason
it may have something to do with the density of fill in those areas
the board outline was much darker than the fill area even in the
stripe with the lowest toner density and vertical traces and isolated
doughnuts seemed to do better than horizontal traces or connected fills
(?or that could just be a red herring? :)
Brian
--
"Nemo me impune lacesset"
On Thursday 26 February 2004 04:18 am, Stefan Trethan wrote:
> Nice Image.
>
> It seems there is some "shorting out the HV" to be seen.
> which end went through first?
>
> the section with the crossing lines is interesting. suddenly it seems it
> worked on one place.
>
>
> This is not useable at all like it is, that is clear.
> But it shows it even works a bit without modifications.
>
> I think if we can manage to move the copper close enough past the drum
> (which means enveloping the edges in tape and letting this touch the drum)
> and if further the voltages are correct it must work.
>
> The image is already on the drum correctly, with the right amount of
> toner. all left
> to do is to transfer it to copper instead of paper.
>
> I had the following thought:
> the drum is aluminium, right? and there is only this thin layer of
> "plastic".
> if we simply connect the corona wire voltage to the pcb surface wouldn't
> that spark
> through the photosensitive layer?
>
>
> ST
2004-02-27 by Stefan Trethan
On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 19:00:08 -0800, Brian Pitt <
bfp@...> wrote:
> the end with the pins and traces was first and that was were it stuck
> best
> for I'm guessing the circumference of the drum after that it started
> getting
> dropouts and low toner density and then picked back up near the end
> for some reason
>
> it may have something to do with the density of fill in those areas
> the board outline was much darker than the fill area even in the
> stripe with the lowest toner density and vertical traces and isolated
> doughnuts seemed to do better than horizontal traces or connected fills
> (?or that could just be a red herring? :)
>
> Brian
the filled areas are always not so dense.
My guess is that as the charged drum moves past the developer the "point
charge"
of a thin line gathers up the adjacent toner also. in a filled area it is
more spread.
i thought the working last section might be because then the foil did no
longer contact
metal parts and maybe was charged up a bit, but this is a wild guess, i do
not know
your printer...
ST
2004-03-08 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2004-03-08 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2004-03-11 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2004-03-13 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2004-03-16 by Stefan Trethan
Hi all...
Finally got some minutes to make my new etch tank...
It is a simple tupperware container.
the pcb is held horizontally.
I mounted the pcb holder to the lid directly.
It is a stripe of 4mm thick acrylic glass (80mm wide), the ends are bent
up and back.
these ends have two holes through which they are screwed to the lid of the
container.
(this looks like a big C with the opening upwards to the lid) and a long
flat plane on the bottom.
this strip is located in the center of the container now.
there are two more plastic parts, which are simply two plastic angles.
the two angles are mounted with one leg on the flat of the C, the other
leg pointing
down and holding one end of the pcb.
the downward leg has small strips of 2mm cd box material glued to it to
form a
"groove" for holding the pcb. (you could grind that too).
i cut a lengthwise slot in the bottom of the "C" strip in the center.
the angles and the C hold together with a plastic screw each through the
slit in the C and also a little "knob" to prevent rotating further to the
end of the leg.
(the knob rests in the slit).
For adjusting the width of the pcb you undo the plastic screw and insert
the pcb.
then you slide the angle to firmly grip the pcb and tighten the screw.
If you need a big pcb you rotate the angles so that the downward leg is on
the outside.
if you need a small pcb you rotate them so that the downward legs come
together at the center.
So you can make pcbs from zero to the full length with no lost space in
the container.
I do not know if the above description is understandable, the webcam can
not take a picture
which will be better, especially not of acryl glass parts.
i can make a drawing if required.
the holder allows for viewing through the lid (and the acryl glass) if the
pcb is ready.
you can also look through the sides of the container, and through the
bottom would be possible too.
(mirror etc).
The pcb holder is fully contained within the closed cotnainer, no etchant
or vapor can get
out wile in storage or in use, only at putting the pcb in or out.
you can attach a "wiggling mechanism" to the screws which mount the holder
to the lid, the lid
flexes enough to allow agitation...
the operation will be with the help of a plastic hex (ring-) wrench which
ideally will
be used to both spaning the plastic screw and sliding the angle piece.
If it works out there will be no touching of surfaces exposed to etchant.
this means i do not necessarily need to wash the holder (and waste
etchant, and add water).
just undo the screw while the pcb is a cm above the water conteiner and it
will drop out.
I still have a big problem: i do not have the plastic
screws which hold the angles and the C together.
this need to be 2 M8 or M10 screws with nuts.
plastic, stainless is no good in HCl.
I have the screws which hold the C to the lid, these are plastic screws
used
normally to hold together cabinets/shelfs and such stuff. it are plastic
nuts, but with
a steel screw, however the plastic nut has a sleeve which comes through
the lid and
so no steel is inside the container exposed....
I have no idea where i will find these screws, and i also can not find
round stock
to cut them myself.
I have not tested the holder and i can't say if it is good...
But it was a major design goal for me to allow for 100% useage of
container area
and also to allow very tiny pcbs.
This design goal was reached and i am satisfied with it. i hope it is
useable then.
If ther is interest i will maybe make a drawing and any ideas where i may
find plastic screws are welcome.
ST
2004-03-16 by gk_impala
Hello Stefan,
Nylon nuts and bolts are available for example from Farnell or RS,
www.farnell.com and www.rswww.com
however, they may only sell to company's.
I don't know where you are located, but they are all around the globe.
In the Netherlands they also sell nylon nuts etc in the DIY stores.
Gertjan
--- In
Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Trethan
<stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:
> Hi all...
>
> Finally got some minutes to make my new etch tank...
>
> ..........
>
> If ther is interest i will maybe make a drawing and any ideas where
i may
> find plastic screws are welcome.
>
> ST
2004-03-16 by Stefan Trethan
On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 17:55:56 -0000, gk_impala <
yahoo@...> wrote:
> Hello Stefan,
>
> Nylon nuts and bolts are available for example from Farnell or RS,
>
> www.farnell.com and www.rswww.com
>
> however, they may only sell to company's.
> I don't know where you are located, but they are all around the globe.
> In the Netherlands they also sell nylon nuts etc in the DIY stores.
>
> Gertjan
>
>
i have not seen them at DIY stores here...
But i just checked this minute at my model buildung supplyer and he has
m8x60
screws... he has no nuts but i can make them with a tap.
thanks
ST
2004-03-17 by Ben H. Lanmon
> > If ther is interest i will maybe make a drawing and any ideas
where
> i may
> > find plastic screws are welcome.
I have gotten plastic materials thru U.S. Plastic Corp.
www.usplastic.com
I use the Ferric Chloride which from what I understand does not go
well with Nylon parts. U.S. Plastic carry several different types
of plastic material, parts, nuts, bolts, screws etc.
Ben
2004-03-19 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2004-03-19 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2004-03-26 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2004-03-29 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2004-03-29 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2004-04-12 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2004-04-13 by dkesterline
> Hello,
>
> This email message is a notification to let you know that
> a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the Homebrew_PCBs
> group.
>
> File : /Acid Etching/DrugStoreHardwareStoreEtchant.html
> Uploaded by : alienrelics <alienrelics@y...>
> Description : Proportions using 3% medical Hydrogen Peroxide and
30% Muriatic Acid
>
> You can access this file at the URL
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/files/Acid%
20Etching/DrugStoreHardwareStoreEtchant.html
>
Geezee, if I'd known I was creating somthing that was going to be
kept, I might have put in a little more effort :o)
-Denny
2004-04-23 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2004-04-23 by Stefan Trethan
Nice software, thanks...
I want to suggest using google.
if you search with google for "1 ounce in gram" you get what you want.
you can also make it calculate other equations, with sine/cosine, e^x
etc...
It is helpful to setup your browser to accept "g searchterm" in the url
line for
google search, then you simply enter g 999999/888888*22 etc...
It can also do odd things like "3 fortnights in seconds"
Just wanted to add this, of course the conversion software knows much more
units
but maybe google is faster to use for the simple things.
ST
On 23 Apr 2004 11:53:08 -0000, <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> This email message is a notification to let you know that
> a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the Homebrew_PCBs
> group.
>
> File : /Units.exe
> Uploaded by : vsurducan <vasile@...-cj.ro>
> Description : dos units converter, working under win9x too
>
> You can access this file at the URL
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/files/Units.exe
>
> To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit
>
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
>
> Regards,
>
> vsurducan <vasile@...-cj.ro>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
2004-04-23 by Steve
Please provide a link to where you found this. For a variety of
reasons, I do not like uploading EXEs. Problems of
ownership/copyright, viruses, and why upload it if it can be
downloaded somewhere?
Steve, the moderator
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> This email message is a notification to let you know that
> a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the Homebrew_PCBs
> group.
>
> File : /Units.exe
> Uploaded by : vsurducan <vasile@s...>
> Description : dos units converter, working under win9x too
>
> You can access this file at the URL
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/files/Units.exe
>
> To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit
>
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
>
> Regards,
>
> vsurducan <vasile@s...>
2004-05-07 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2004-05-22 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2004-05-22 by mickeym
2004-05-22 by Stefan Trethan
On Sat, 22 May 2004 13:40:14 -0400, mickeym <
whitemouse@...>
wrote:
>
> I took a swing at entering the "http://sanisis.netfirms.com/" schematic
> in Eagle format.
> I changed only the extra junction at pin 8 of the PIC, and just put test
> pads for the battery and the RX433 module, and used through-hole parts.
>
> mickeym
>
Mickey, I hoped Karega would post here that the work is already assigned,
but
this isn't the case so i have to do it.
There were a changes to the schematic, and the work on the pcb is already
in pogress.
You need not waste your time.
ST
2004-05-22 by Dave Mucha
--- In
Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, mickeym <whitemouse@m...> wrote:
>
> I took a swing at entering the "http://sanisis.netfirms.com/"
schematic
> in Eagle format.
> I changed only the extra junction at pin 8 of the PIC, and just put
test
> pads for the battery and the RX433 module, and used through-hole
parts.
>
> mickeym
>
> Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
> >Hello,
> >
> >This email message is a notification to let you know that
> >a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the Homebrew_PCBs
> >group.
> >
> > File : /MickeyM/orbacle.sch
> > Uploaded by : whitemouse_98 <whitemouse@m...>
> > Description : Orbacle Schematic 1.0
> >
> >You can access this file at the URL
> >
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/files/MickeyM/orbacle.sch
> >
> >To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit
> >
> >http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >whitemouse_98 <whitemouse@m...>
> >
OK,
I have not used Eagle, but have recently downloaded it for some
attempt at learning it.
Can you tell me how to open the file ?
Eagle does not allow browsing to other folders and the extension .sch
is associated with another PCB program I use.
Do I just copy it to a new folder somewhere ?
Dave
2004-05-22 by Dave Mucha
--- In
Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Trethan
<stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:
> On Sat, 22 May 2004 13:40:14 -0400, mickeym <whitemouse@m...>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > I took a swing at entering the "http://sanisis.netfirms.com/"
schematic
> > in Eagle format.
> > I changed only the extra junction at pin 8 of the PIC, and just
put test
> > pads for the battery and the RX433 module, and used through-hole
parts.
> >
> > mickeym
> >
>
> Mickey, I hoped Karega would post here that the work is already
assigned,
> but
> this isn't the case so i have to do it.
>
> There were a changes to the schematic, and the work on the pcb is
already
> in pogress.
>
> You need not waste your time.
>
> ST
I agree that people should acknoledge others and the list when things
change.
Since we have been talking about the schematic and the general
excersize of taking an unknown schematic and turning it into a
workable board, this particular thread does not have to die.
IF, the schematic was done and the basic circuit looked workable to
my general overview, I would considder making the board as a favor to
another hobbiest. Many of us need a board to be made before we can
get a mahcine running that will make boards. The old Catch-22
problem.
Anyway, it is only good manners to inform people that the job has
already been assigned. This need not be the whole group, but
certainly those who have sent direct e-mails.
In the case of this project, I'm curious what it is for and what it
will do.
And, since I already found flaws in the schematic (I have no doubt
whatsoever that Stefan will find them as they were simple) I did not
want to get involved in the enginnering of the project.
But, all that said, if someone does push it forward, I would be
interested in seeing what it looks like, and the errors found.
Dave
2004-05-22 by Ron Amundson
This is sort of a slick discussion as to the engineering of the schematic..... I don't use PIC's, but the process is what interests me.
It would be cool to do the same with the pcb layout as well. Perhaps different versions of the layout could be posted and discussed.
I don't think much of this is off topic either, as long as we can continure the discussions as the pcb takes shape.
I've homebrewed a few RF designs, even did the antenna as a series of traces.... Something practical homebrew wise, where in you can run through 5-10 revs in a couple days pretty quickly. I'm very much interested once the design gets to that stage. What I came up with worked.... but was not the optimum.
Ron
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2004-05-22 by mickeym
Okay, thanks.
BTW, I have been using the "cheap glossy photo paper and a clothes iron"
method with fair results using 0.024 widths. I'll be trying the
"magazine paper in a laminator" method on a couple of designs. I'll post
my results in a week or so.
mickeym
Stefan Trethan wrote:
>On Sat, 22 May 2004 13:40:14 -0400, mickeym <whitemouse@...>
>wrote:
>
>
>
>>I took a swing at entering the "http://sanisis.netfirms.com/" schematic
>>in Eagle format.
>>I changed only the extra junction at pin 8 of the PIC, and just put test
>>pads for the battery and the RX433 module, and used through-hole parts.
>>
>>mickeym
>>
>>
>>
>
>Mickey, I hoped Karega would post here that the work is already assigned,
>but
>this isn't the case so i have to do it.
>
>There were a changes to the schematic, and the work on the pcb is already
>in pogress.
>
>You need not waste your time.
>
>ST
>
>
>
2004-05-22 by mickeym
Dave Mucha wrote:
>--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, mickeym <whitemouse@m...> wrote:
>
>
>>I took a swing at entering the "http://sanisis.netfirms.com/"
>>
>>
>schematic
>
>
>>in Eagle format.
>>I changed only the extra junction at pin 8 of the PIC, and just put
>>
>>
>test
>
>
>>pads for the battery and the RX433 module, and used through-hole
>>
>>
>parts.
>
>
>>mickeym
>>
>>Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Hello,
>>>
>>>This email message is a notification to let you know that
>>>a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the Homebrew_PCBs
>>>group.
>>>
>>> File : /MickeyM/orbacle.sch
>>> Uploaded by : whitemouse_98 <whitemouse@m...>
>>> Description : Orbacle Schematic 1.0
>>>
>>>You can access this file at the URL
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/files/MickeyM/orbacle.sch
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>>To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit
>>>
>>>http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>
>>>whitemouse_98 <whitemouse@m...>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>OK,
>
>I have not used Eagle, but have recently downloaded it for some
>attempt at learning it.
>
>Can you tell me how to open the file ?
>
>Eagle does not allow browsing to other folders and the extension .sch
>is associated with another PCB program I use.
>
>Do I just copy it to a new folder somewhere ?
>
>Dave
>
>
>
>
After eagle is installed, make a new project, it will make a folder,
close eagle then copy the file into that folder and re-open eagle.
mickeym
2004-05-22 by Dave Mucha
> OK,
>
> I have not used Eagle, but have recently downloaded it for some
> attempt at learning it.
>
> Can you tell me how to open the file ?
>
> Eagle does not allow browsing to other folders and the
extension .sch
> is associated with another PCB program I use.
>
> Do I just copy it to a new folder somewhere ?
>
> Dave
FOUND IT !
Creating a new folder in Explorer and pasting the file into it put it
on the navigation window.
Good thing you fixed the crystal. That was required to make it work
and too simple of a mistake.
A question is why the diode on MCLR ?
Another question is why all the shift registers to only light a few
LED's ? And why the transistor on the LED's ? The shift register
can handle 20mA in a drain mode, and each LED can be run at 10mA so
there are lots of unneeded parts. OR... more likely many more parts
that are not shown.
It seems the PIC could easily handle the 6 LED's shown, more easily
than the way shown. Really makes me think things are not shown.
I would think the LED's are 'typical' for stings of 8 or so, like bar
graphs.
Volume, antenna strneght, signal strength.... ?
Very interesting.
Dave
2004-05-22 by millerdl
In Eagle if you don't store the file in a Projects folder you can still
browse to wherever you have stored the file - in the Control Panel
window do a File/Open/Schematic and you will get a standard Open File
dialog window to browse to the file location.
Dennis
Dave Mucha wrote:
>-
>
>
>OK,
>
>I have not used Eagle, but have recently downloaded it for some
>attempt at learning it.
>
>Can you tell me how to open the file ?
>
>Eagle does not allow browsing to other folders and the extension .sch
>is associated with another PCB program I use.
>
>Do I just copy it to a new folder somewhere ?
>
>Dave
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
2004-05-22 by Stefan Trethan
On Sat, 22 May 2004 14:27:38 -0400, mickeym <
whitemouse@...>
wrote:
>
> Okay, thanks.
>
> BTW, I have been using the "cheap glossy photo paper and a clothes iron"
> method with fair results using 0.024 widths.
are that inches?
7mil are well possible with toner transfer, which is the liit of my
printer not the transfer.
i have better results using a copier fuser than a iron.
ST
2004-05-22 by mickeym
I did a 3"X4" 2-layer board drawn with eagle. I had what you might call
a "low yield" process that usually needed touchups. Registration was
done by eye, and I pressed both layers at the same time. I could get
smaller features to transfer sometimes. Text was either patchy or
smeared, but sometimes looked great.
mickeym
Stefan Trethan wrote:
>>BTW, I have been using the "cheap glossy photo paper and a clothes iron"
>>method with fair results using 0.024 widths.
>>
>>
>
>are that inches?
>
>7mil are well possible with toner transfer, which is the liit of my
>printer not the transfer.
>
>i have better results using a copier fuser than a iron.
>
>ST
>
>
2004-05-22 by Leon Heller
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Mucha" <dave_mucha@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 7:39 PM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: New file uploaded to Homebrew_PCBs
>
> Good thing you fixed the crystal. That was required to make it work
> and too simple of a mistake.
>
> A question is why the diode on MCLR ?
Possibly to discharge the capacitor that is often used on MCLR when power is
removed. However, there is no capacitor. 8-)
>
>
> Another question is why all the shift registers to only light a few
> LED's ? And why the transistor on the LED's ? The shift register
> can handle 20mA in a drain mode, and each LED can be run at 10mA so
> there are lots of unneeded parts. OR... more likely many more parts
> that are not shown.
Perhaps the SRs are to minimise the number of outputs from the PIC, enabling
more LEDs to be added without taking up more pins.
>
> It seems the PIC could easily handle the 6 LED's shown, more easily
> than the way shown. Really makes me think things are not shown.
>
> I would think the LED's are 'typical' for stings of 8 or so, like bar
> graphs.
Leon
--
Leon Heller, G1HSM
http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller
2004-05-22 by Dave Mucha
--- In
Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Trethan
<stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:
> On Sat, 22 May 2004 14:27:38 -0400, mickeym <whitemouse@m...>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > Okay, thanks.
> >
> > BTW, I have been using the "cheap glossy photo paper and a
clothes iron"
> > method with fair results using 0.024 widths.
>
> are that inches?
>
> 7mil are well possible with toner transfer, which is the liit of my
> printer not the transfer.
>
> i have better results using a copier fuser than a iron.
>
> ST
I came across a paper that will allow the toner to stay on it as long
as you don't breathe too heavy. It will come off 100% with an iron,
but the questions I have regarding all the reading I have done is as
to pressure.
It seems that I always have open specks in the print. It also seems
that heat and pressure will force the toner together to cover over
those little gaps.
A clothes iron will get the heat, but not the pressure. My next
attempt is to get it hot and transferred and then use a roller to get
the pressure.
I can see why the rollers are gettting high praise.
Dave
2004-05-22 by mickeym
Leon Heller wrote:
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Dave Mucha" <dave_mucha@...>
>To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 7:39 PM
>Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: New file uploaded to Homebrew_PCBs
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>Good thing you fixed the crystal. That was required to make it work
>>and too simple of a mistake.
>>
>>A question is why the diode on MCLR ?
>>
>>
>
>Possibly to discharge the capacitor that is often used on MCLR when power is
>removed. However, there is no capacitor. 8-)
>
>
>
>>Another question is why all the shift registers to only light a few
>>LED's ? And why the transistor on the LED's ? The shift register
>>can handle 20mA in a drain mode, and each LED can be run at 10mA so
>>there are lots of unneeded parts. OR... more likely many more parts
>>that are not shown.
>>
>>
>
>Perhaps the SRs are to minimise the number of outputs from the PIC, enabling
>more LEDs to be added without taking up more pins.
>
>
It looks like it can have three different outputs going at the same
time, each with two led's. The schematic shows PNP transistors for the
led driver, I think they should be NPN, though.
The shift registers are all clocked by the same 555 timer (40KHz ?)
maybe so the on/off times are consistent.
A wireless receiver that can be told to send unique commands to three
other things?
mickeym
2004-05-22 by Stefan Trethan
> I came across a paper that will allow the toner to stay on it as long
> as you don't breathe too heavy. It will come off 100% with an iron,
> but the questions I have regarding all the reading I have done is as
> to pressure.
>
The coming off 100% is NOT a problem.
even with cheap photo paper there is no toner left at the paper here.
> It seems that I always have open specks in the print. It also seems
> that heat and pressure will force the toner together to cover over
> those little gaps.
Yes, pinholes, or more like nailholes ;-).
I have them to if the tracks get too wide.
It is because my printer does very poor toner density, not uniform etc...
solutions:
good printer
thinner paper.
c) manual touchup.
> A clothes iron will get the heat, but not the pressure. My next
> attempt is to get it hot and transferred and then use a roller to get
> the pressure.
Too much pressure is no good, it flattens out the tracks and you get
inconsistent
width. you need uniform pressure.
> I can see why the rollers are gettting high praise.
Because it is uniform and repeatable, not because you get more pressure.
I actually had to reduce the spring pressure quite a high amount to
prevent spreading.
Now you can see the tinyest isolation gap between 2 tracks 2 pixel
(6,66mil) wide,
spaced 7 mils. Before reducing the pressure i had too much spreading.
the pinhole problem was not increased, of course the spreading did lessen
the effect but
it greatly reduces quality.
gentle does the trick, not much pressure is needed
ST
2004-05-22 by Stefan Trethan
>>> Good thing you fixed the crystal. That was required to make it work
>>> and too simple of a mistake.
no crystal is a 3 pin ceramic, the 3rd pin was missing. the caps are
inside.
>>> A question is why the diode on MCLR ?
in circuit programming, was connected wrong, now fixed.
and header for programming added.
>>> Another question is why all the shift registers to only light a few
>>> LED's ? And why the transistor on the LED's ? The shift register
>>> can handle 20mA in a drain mode, and each LED can be run at 10mA so
>>> there are lots of unneeded parts. OR... more likely many more parts
>>> that are not shown.
uses pretty heavy leds with up to 30mA each (res. changed).
Not sure about the shift reg., one could code them into the pic i guess.
maybe it makes code simple. they cost nearly nothing so why not.
> It looks like it can have three different outputs going at the same
> time, each with two led's. The schematic shows PNP transistors for the
> led driver, I think they should be NPN, though.
me too, changed that already.
PNP would work, though better on the high side.
> The shift registers are all clocked by the same 555 timer (40KHz ?)
> maybe so the on/off times are consistent.
Not sure about how it is intended to work. Karega is sure it must be done
this
way, i asked.
ST
2004-05-22 by Dave Mucha
> Before reducing the pressure i had too much spreading.
>
> the pinhole problem was not increased, of course the spreading did
lessen
> the effect but
> it greatly reduces quality.
>
>
> gentle does the trick, not much pressure is needed
>
> ST
I would assume this is from surface tension and the heat does most of
the spreading.
I have had limited success with a clothes iron and am still looking
for an easy way.
I found a paper that just barely holds the toner from the printer so
my next attempt will be with that to see how the paper holds up under
heat.
Dave
2004-05-22 by Stefan Trethan
> I have had limited success with a clothes iron and am still looking
> for an easy way.
I have had ok success with a clothes iron first, at some point it got
worse.
I'm lazy so instead of troubleshooting it i hooked up the fuser unit.
The results were amazing from the second pcb, the first was fused much too
short. since then i have not had one bad pcb with the fuser.
>
> I found a paper that just barely holds the toner from the printer so
> my next attempt will be with that to see how the paper holds up under
> heat.
Well, if you insist on it.
In my opinion a paper holding the toner just barely is no help at all.
the toner will stick good enough that some paper is peeled off with it
with most inkjet paper.
Much more important is heat and uniform pressure.
ST
2004-05-22 by kaytea2k
--- In
Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com,
Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> This email message is a notification to let you know that
> a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the Homebrew_PCBs
> group.
>
Yes I lost track of the thread when the Subject line changed. I
should have e:mailed you directly. But yes the schematic has been
assigned, though your suggestions and comments were helpful.
2004-05-23 by ballendo
Stefan,
Could you detail your fuser unit conversion please? (or point me to
the place where you've already done so?)
Thank you in advance,
Ballendo
P.S. And I would like to hear from anyone else on the same subject,
assuming you are happy with the conversion...
As a former Copier Service Tech, one thing I'm wondering is if fuser
oil is used? (Because without it, our old--early 80's--Minolta fuser
rollers didn't last long at all!)
--- In
Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Trethan
<stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:
> > I have had limited success with a clothes iron and am still
looking
> > for an easy way.
>
> I have had ok success with a clothes iron first, at some point it
got
> worse.
> I'm lazy so instead of troubleshooting it i hooked up the fuser
unit.
> The results were amazing from the second pcb, the first was fused
much too
> short. since then i have not had one bad pcb with the fuser.
>
> >
> > I found a paper that just barely holds the toner from the printer
so
> > my next attempt will be with that to see how the paper holds up
under
> > heat.
>
> Well, if you insist on it.
> In my opinion a paper holding the toner just barely is no help at
all.
> the toner will stick good enough that some paper is peeled off with
it
> with most inkjet paper.
>
> Much more important is heat and uniform pressure.
>
> ST
2004-05-23 by Stefan Trethan
On Sun, 23 May 2004 07:52:09 -0000, ballendo <
ballendo@...> wrote:
> Stefan,
>
> Could you detail your fuser unit conversion please? (or point me to
> the place where you've already done so?)
>
> Thank you in advance,
>
> Ballendo
no much conversion needed.
just add a temperature control circuit (opto an triac, a pot and a
transistor)
and find a way to mechanically drive it.
then loosen the tension springs -> ready.
Tell me if i have to make a web page.
no oil used here, the teflon / silicone does well without.
ST
Esteban in chile has made a conversion with a very fast heating fuser.
He says it works too.
2004-05-23 by Stefan Trethan
Hi, while looking for direct inkjet printing i found:
US 6,709,962 patent (i think one can't link to the page).
Those patent documents are so damn long and i am way too impatient to
read them.
I only wanted to post it here because we had the discussion a while ago.
Anyone seen a direct inkjet patent?
ST
2004-05-23 by Stefan Trethan
On Sun, 23 May 2004 22:48:57 +0200, Stefan Trethan <
stefan_trethan@...>
wrote:
> Hi, while looking for direct inkjet printing i found:
>
> US 6,709,962 patent (i think one can't link to the page).
>
> Those patent documents are so damn long and i am way too impatient to
> read them.
>
> I only wanted to post it here because we had the discussion a while ago.
>
> Anyone seen a direct inkjet patent?
>
> ST
>
>
The doucument says at some point a conventional printer may be used
without much modification.
I haven't seen the corona voltage issue adressed, but i haven't read the
whole of it.
(the writing style makes me really sick...)
There really should be a inkjet priting pcbs patent but i can't find...
ST
2004-05-24 by ballendo
Stefan,
What type of copier/printer did you pull your fuser unit from?
What temperature do you set it to?
I assume you release the tension on the springs so that the thicker
board material gets about the same pressur as the thinner paper did?
Thank you in advance,
Ballendo
--- In
Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Trethan
<stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:
> On Sun, 23 May 2004 07:52:09 -0000, ballendo <ballendo@y...> wrote:
>
> > Stefan,
> >
> > Could you detail your fuser unit conversion please? (or point me
to
> > the place where you've already done so?)
> >
> > Thank you in advance,
> >
> > Ballendo
>
> no much conversion needed.
> just add a temperature control circuit (opto an triac, a pot and a
> transistor)
> and find a way to mechanically drive it.
>
> then loosen the tension springs -> ready.
>
> Tell me if i have to make a web page.
>
> no oil used here, the teflon / silicone does well without.
>
> ST
>
> Esteban in chile has made a conversion with a very fast heating
fuser.
> He says it works too.
2004-05-24 by Stefan Trethan
On Mon, 24 May 2004 05:43:28 -0000, ballendo <
ballendo@...> wrote:
> Stefan,
>
> What type of copier/printer did you pull your fuser unit from?
>
A ricoh unit. any model should work, even printers.
> What temperature do you set it to?
160 degrees C i think
>
> I assume you release the tension on the springs so that the thicker
> board material gets about the same pressur as the thinner paper did?
yes, the original pressure did harm the silicone roller, and spread the
toner.
ST
2004-05-24 by ballendo
Stefan,
That patent IMO is pure BS... It's scary what the patent examiners
allow to be patented these days. I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that
this wouldn't hold up in court. AND wouldn't work in anyones shop. I
thought patents required "reduction to practice" (which is a fancy
way of saying thay have to really work!) It is quite obvious that
the method described doesn't really work, and this is a
shotgun/scattershot attempt to pre-empt anby subsequent similar
method which DOES work... (I'd like to hear from Ed who received the
patent...)
The ONE interesting item (IMO) is the idea that using a dc voltage of
5-300v (applied to the board copper) will allow for direct printing
to the copper on the board. Maybe that part is worth checking out?
Anyway, to answer your question: I used "Avecia" and others in the
INK business as patent search terms to try and find useful info.
There WERE some useful patents going that route, but I didn't save
them once I realised that registration with a laser printer (for 2
sided boards) was not really likely...
Ballendo
P.S. That patent you linked is worth reading just for the BS of it
all<G> (skip the first few claims pages!)
--- In
Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Trethan
<stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:
> On Sun, 23 May 2004 22:48:57 +0200, Stefan Trethan
<stefan_trethan@g...>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi, while looking for direct inkjet printing i found:
> >
> > US 6,709,962 patent (i think one can't link to the page).
> >
> > Those patent documents are so damn long and i am way too
impatient to
> > read them.
> >
> > I only wanted to post it here because we had the discussion a
while ago.
> >
> > Anyone seen a direct inkjet patent?
> >
> > ST
> >
> >
>
>
> The doucument says at some point a conventional printer may be used
> without much modification.
> I haven't seen the corona voltage issue adressed, but i haven't
read the
> whole of it.
> (the writing style makes me really sick...)
>
> There really should be a inkjet priting pcbs patent but i can't
find...
>
> ST
2004-05-24 by ballendo
Thank you.
Ballendo
--- In
Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Trethan
<stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:
> On Mon, 24 May 2004 05:43:28 -0000, ballendo <ballendo@y...> wrote:
>
> > Stefan,
> >
> > What type of copier/printer did you pull your fuser unit from?
> >
> A ricoh unit. any model should work, even printers.
>
> > What temperature do you set it to?
>
> 160 degrees C i think
>
> >
> > I assume you release the tension on the springs so that the
thicker
> > board material gets about the same pressur as the thinner paper
did?
>
> yes, the original pressure did harm the silicone roller, and spread
the
> toner.
>
> ST
2004-05-24 by Stefan Trethan
On Mon, 24 May 2004 06:07:40 -0000, ballendo <
ballendo@...> wrote:
> Stefan,
>
> That patent IMO is pure BS... It's scary what the patent examiners
> allow to be patented these days. I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that
> this wouldn't hold up in court. AND wouldn't work in anyones shop. I
> thought patents required "reduction to practice" (which is a fancy
> way of saying thay have to really work!) It is quite obvious that
> the method described doesn't really work, and this is a
> shotgun/scattershot attempt to pre-empt anby subsequent similar
> method which DOES work... (I'd like to hear from Ed who received the
> patent...)
>
I thought it is necessary to provide a sample of the patented unit, or to
show a certain procedure works with several witnesses watching.
But i slowly get the impression the US patent office allows a used piece
of loo paper.
(i hope saying this is no federal offence in your country ;-) )
> The ONE interesting item (IMO) is the idea that using a dc voltage of
> 5-300v (applied to the board copper) will allow for direct printing
> to the copper on the board. Maybe that part is worth checking out?
>
> Anyway, to answer your question: I used "Avecia" and others in the
> INK business as patent search terms to try and find useful info.
> There WERE some useful patents going that route, but I didn't save
> them once I realised that registration with a laser printer (for 2
> sided boards) was not really likely...
>
> Ballendo
>
> P.S. That patent you linked is worth reading just for the BS of it
> all<G> (skip the first few claims pages!)
2004-05-24 by Stefan Trethan
Hi all,
have fetched the printer.
Have problems installing, anyone knowing how to make a Epson Stylus PRO
(no number)
working with xp?
A few nozzles seem clogged, but some colors are 100% OK so i could use
it to try direct inkjet printing on aluminium foil.
But i can't get it to receive any data from the pc.
ST
2004-05-24 by Esteban Arias
Hi,
I am working with a fuser of a HP 4L printer. Stefan help me to make the
circuit for the fuser control temperature and this is working very good. I
am turning the fuser with a bipolar stepper motor. The working temperatures
is 160º.
next I will send photos of my pcbs
Esteban Arias
earias@...
At 01:52 a.m. 24-05-2004, you wrote:
>On Mon, 24 May 2004 05:43:28 -0000, ballendo <ballendo@...> wrote:
>
> > Stefan,
> >
> > What type of copier/printer did you pull your fuser unit from?
> >
>A ricoh unit. any model should work, even printers.
>
> > What temperature do you set it to?
>
>160 degrees C i think
>
> >
> > I assume you release the tension on the springs so that the thicker
> > board material gets about the same pressur as the thinner paper did?
>
>yes, the original pressure did harm the silicone roller, and spread the
>toner.
>
>ST
>
>
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
2004-05-24 by Dave Mucha
--- In
Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Esteban Arias <earias@v...>
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am working with a fuser of a HP 4L printer. Stefan help me to
make the
> circuit for the fuser control temperature and this is working very
good. I
> am turning the fuser with a bipolar stepper motor. The working
temperatures
> is 160º.
>
> next I will send photos of my pcbs
>
> Esteban Arias
> earias@v...
ummmm... I have a HP LJ-II on the bench ready to pull apart for
parts.
something is broken and the unit was thrown away. Although it was
probably the fuser that is broken, I was wondering what you guys pick
as the basis for a unit ?
Am I better off getting a laminator and then hacking the speed
contorls ?
Dave
2004-05-24 by Stefan Trethan
> ummmm... I have a HP LJ-II on the bench ready to pull apart for
> parts.
>
> something is broken and the unit was thrown away. Although it was
> probably the fuser that is broken, I was wondering what you guys pick
> as the basis for a unit ?
>
> Am I better off getting a laminator and then hacking the speed
> contorls ?
>
> Dave
Depends on what you want to do mechanically.
(I think you have some experience there...)
You will want some sort of motor drive for the fuser.
(although it works fine to directly turn it slowly by hand.).
I have set up the original motor, with heavy gearing...
Until now i was to lazy to build the enclosure for the PSU and motor
controller, so i am still turning the motor by hand (crank).....
If with your fuser the lamp is dead it is a bad thing.
But if only the teflon has a few scratches i assume it does not matter
in this application.
ST
2004-05-24 by Alexandre Souza
> If with your fuser the lamp is dead it is a bad thing.
> But if only the teflon has a few scratches i assume it does not matter
> in this application.
Teflon isn't even necessary in this application, the teflon is used not
to bind the toner to the aluminium cylinder. You can use a completely wasted
fuser roller - it is **even better** for thermal transfering!
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.689 / Virus Database: 450 - Release Date: 21/05/04
2004-05-24 by Stefan Trethan
On Mon, 24 May 2004 13:33:07 -0300, Alexandre Souza
<
alexandre-listas@...> wrote:
>> If with your fuser the lamp is dead it is a bad thing.
>> But if only the teflon has a few scratches i assume it does not matter
>> in this application.
>
> Teflon isn't even necessary in this application, the teflon is used
> not
> to bind the toner to the aluminium cylinder. You can use a completely
> wasted
> fuser roller - it is **even better** for thermal transfering!
>
only problem is maybe uneven surface, but you could sand/polish it all
off..
you get a yellowish stripe where there is no teflon. does not matter here.
ST
2004-05-24 by Stefan Trethan
On Mon, 24 May 2004 17:05:41 +0200, Stefan Trethan <
stefan_trethan@...>
wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> have fetched the printer.
>
> Have problems installing, anyone knowing how to make a Epson Stylus PRO
> (no number)
> working with xp?
>
> A few nozzles seem clogged, but some colors are 100% OK so i could use
> it to try direct inkjet printing on aluminium foil.
>
> But i can't get it to receive any data from the pc.
>
> ST
>
Damn it that *%&&((/&$$ printer does not work!
i have tried with win3.11 and the driver does not work there too.
I'm rather sure it is a hardware fault, as i would expect
the printer to light this data led if i send something through the dos
console.
It also has a 8-pin mini din serial connector.
I will try this.
the clean cartridge and print fonts / test head works, so i do not really
understand
why the normal printing doesn't....
I had a very hard time getting that case apart (wanted to look if i see
something oddd...
Brute force was required ;-).
It would be a good printer for flatbed conversion.
ST
2004-05-24 by Stefan Trethan
> It also has a 8-pin mini din serial connector.
> I will try this.
>
This is rs422 :-( mac type connector.
I have no 422 converter.
I could test the concept by using the "print fonts" on aluminium foil
with proper ink, but if i can't get this interface to work i can never
use the printer.
BAD THING.
ST
2004-05-24 by bsjoelund
Does the self test function?
If not, waste it !
Bengt
2004-05-24 by Stefan Trethan
On Mon, 24 May 2004 17:47:17 -0000, bsjoelund <
tecnoconsult@...>
wrote:
>
> Does the self test function?
>
> If not, waste it !
>
> Bengt
all functions, self test (printing the fonts), cleaning, all ok...
Just never any data beeing received... (how to troubleshoot that???)
tested the very same cable and computer on another printer, all ok.
ST
2004-05-24 by Stefan Trethan
Still dead on the parallel input front...
BUT i have stuck a piece of aluminium foil onto a sheet of paper, run
through the unit
and started the "test head" process.
The ink is still the pelikan ink that came with the printer.
(seems similar to the epson ink to me).
I have made 1 1200 dpi scan of the result.
BIG PICTURE, meant to zoom around, over 1Mb!
<
http://stud4.tuwien.ac.at/~e0225977/alu.jpg>
smaller cutout for those of you still without broadband...
<
http://stud4.tuwien.ac.at/~e0225977/alu_small.jpg>
Look forward to discussion, what do you think, should i flush one
head and use diluted staedtler red?
ST
2004-05-24 by gmanca101
> Look forward to discussion, what do you think, should i flush one
> head and use diluted staedtler red?
>
> ST
Question is whether the Staedtler Ink is Alcohol based. If not, there
could be a sort of oil and water seperation.
2004-05-24 by Stefan Trethan
> Question is whether the Staedtler Ink is Alcohol based. If not, there
> could be a sort of oil and water seperation.
I think it is. the one patent says their dryproof is aquaous but it will
still
mix well with alcohol, won't it?
ST
2004-05-25 by Stefan Trethan
me = stupid....
as you can read on electronics 101 the problem with the
printer was that it was set to serial mode, there is a hidden menu where
you can change it.
it now works fine on lpt.
next: drain one color and fill with staedtler red.
(maybe if the experiment fails i can use it as B/W printer)
thx for the help
ST
2004-05-25 by Stefan Trethan
result of steadtler RED 1:1 mixed with denatured alcohol on alu can be
seen at:
<
http://stud4.tuwien.ac.at/~e0225977/pub/alu_staedtler.jpg>
the X you see are textmode X,
on the left i printed a solid red vertical stripe in a second run.
I'm not sure how to interpret it, any ideas?
I used the yellow head, one or more jets are clogged.
Should i use the black head? has more nozzles and all are clear says the
test head print.
it is a 720DPI printer, and a 1200DPI scan.
looking forward to discussion.
ST
2004-05-25 by mpdickens
--- Stefan Trethan <
stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
> me = stupid....
No, your not. It's a tree verses tree leaves thing.
I used to own that printer years ago and hated it.
There is very little about it that is user friendly
and the config (ie: serial/parallel port) is a well
hidden (Even in the manual). I forgot about it. I
typically don't remember the details of those things I
do not like...
Best
Marvin
=====
Registered Linux User No. 80253
If you use linux, get counted at:
http://www.linuxcounter.org
__________________________________
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http://messenger.yahoo.com/2004-05-26 by crankorgan
> it is a 720DPI printer, and a 1200DPI scan.
>
> looking forward to discussion.
>
> ST
When a dot of ink hits paper it soaks in a little. This holds the
ink in place and helps it dry quicker. The dot of ink also spreads out
a little as it soaks in and dries. The drops of ink hook together
forming better coverage.
Printing onto a metal surface might require smaller dots but denser
coverage. You are very close if the ink is drying? Is it?
John
2004-05-26 by mickeym
I bought a PL2000 laminator and tried a couple of things.
The first was a single sided copper board with a top layer parts
outline, the pcb material was very thin (maybe 0.030) and I used
magazine paper. It actually turned out pretty good, except large fill
areas were weak and a couple of the traces smeared.
The second was thick double sided copper (0.060) using magazine paper.
It seemed to go okay at first, but it started to bind and damaged the
paper. I ran it through a couple of times anyway to see how it might
look, but no toner was transferred at all.
I'll try photo glossy paper next, and will probably modify the case a
little.
MickeyM
2004-05-26 by Stefan Trethan
On Wed, 26 May 2004 14:44:47 -0000, crankorgan <
john@...> wrote:
>> it is a 720DPI printer, and a 1200DPI scan.
>>
>> looking forward to discussion.
>>
>> ST
>
> When a dot of ink hits paper it soaks in a little. This holds the
> ink in place and helps it dry quicker. The dot of ink also spreads out
> a little as it soaks in and dries. The drops of ink hook together
> forming better coverage.
> Printing onto a metal surface might require smaller dots but denser
> coverage. You are very close if the ink is drying? Is it?
>
yes staedtler red is drying quickly...
the epson ink is not.
ST
2004-05-26 by Steve
--- In
Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "crankorgan" <john@k...> wrote:
> > it is a 720DPI printer, and a 1200DPI scan.
> >
> > looking forward to discussion.
> >
> > ST
>
> When a dot of ink hits paper it soaks in a little. This holds the
> ink in place and helps it dry quicker. The dot of ink also spreads out
> a little as it soaks in and dries. The drops of ink hook together
> forming better coverage.
> Printing onto a metal surface might require smaller dots but denser
> coverage. You are very close if the ink is drying? Is it?
Very good points. In addition, using higher DPI means better coverage.
Newer Epson printers will print smaller drops much closer together.
The Epson Stylus II is pretty old.
Steve
2004-05-26 by Stefan Trethan
> I'll try photo glossy paper next, and will probably modify the case a
> little.
>
> MickeyM
>
not glossy, matt. glossy didn't work at all for me.
ST
2004-05-26 by Jeremy Taylor
On the pl 2000 If you are havin binding problems, You can release the "spring" wires on the pull rollers (the back set), and it will run smoother. Becareful cause the gears are plastic and will strip easy, I found setting the heat to 3/4 max, and waitng about 10 minutes worked best, also the palin 24# 94 bright wihite paper worked the best for me. (for toner transfer)
However The PL2000 absolutley sucks at laminating on real photo resist film, I have upraded to a Hotlam 320 works much better at that. Can be had on ebay for a little over $100 on ebay from time to time.
JT
----- Original Message -----
From: mickeym
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 10:58 AM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] PL2000
I bought a PL2000 laminator and tried a couple of things.
The first was a single sided copper board with a top layer parts
outline, the pcb material was very thin (maybe 0.030) and I used
magazine paper. It actually turned out pretty good, except large fill
areas were weak and a couple of the traces smeared.
The second was thick double sided copper (0.060) using magazine paper.
It seemed to go okay at first, but it started to bind and damaged the
paper. I ran it through a couple of times anyway to see how it might
look, but no toner was transferred at all.
I'll try photo glossy paper next, and will probably modify the case a
little.
MickeyM
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2004-05-28 by mickeym
With the lid off, it goes through okay. :)
I used Staples "picture paper" next time, still no transfer. Then, I
preheated the sandwich (top art, doubleclad, bottom art) with a clothes
iron before I ran it through six times, and got a pretty good transfer.
Looks like the doubleclad can't get hot enough in the laminator.
mm
Jeremy Taylor wrote:
>On the pl 2000 If you are havin binding problems, You can release the "spring" wires on the pull rollers (the back set), and it will run smoother. Becareful cause the gears are plastic and will strip easy, I found setting the heat to 3/4 max, and waitng about 10 minutes worked best, also the palin 24# 94 bright wihite paper worked the best for me. (for toner transfer)
> However The PL2000 absolutley sucks at laminating on real photo resist film, I have upraded to a Hotlam 320 works much better at that. Can be had on ebay for a little over $100 on ebay from time to time.
>
>JT
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: mickeym
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 10:58 AM
> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] PL2000
>
>
> I bought a PL2000 laminator and tried a couple of things.
>
> The first was a single sided copper board with a top layer parts
> outline, the pcb material was very thin (maybe 0.030) and I used
> magazine paper. It actually turned out pretty good, except large fill
> areas were weak and a couple of the traces smeared.
>
> The second was thick double sided copper (0.060) using magazine paper.
> It seemed to go okay at first, but it started to bind and damaged the
> paper. I ran it through a couple of times anyway to see how it might
> look, but no toner was transferred at all.
>
> I'll try photo glossy paper next, and will probably modify the case a
> little.
>
> MickeyM
>
>
>
2004-06-03 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2004-06-06 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2004-06-06 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2004-06-06 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2004-06-06 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2004-06-06 by Alexandre Souza
SUCESS!
Yesterday I gave a try on ppdeayal method of thermal transfer.
Got an old Toshiba Pagemaster printer, dismanteled and got the entire
fuser assembly and gear unit. Built it onto a board of wood and a small
circuit to drive the step motor. In my first try, I got so much sucess I'm
really amazed. Here is how it happened:
- Got a Couche paper (time magazine, in Brazil we have "Veja") sheet and
glued it with double sided tape into an A4 sheet. My HP Laserjet 4 plus
cannot feed a paper so thin, so I used the A4 sheet as a carrier.
- Printed the circuit in the darkest mode possible
- Warmed the fuser unit, monitoring temperature in the thermistor (The
IDEAL temperature of the fuser unit is between 190 and 210 degrees. In HP
printers the Thermal Fuse opens in 210 degrees celsius, so keep this
temperature lower!)
- Put the board + paper sandwich in the fuser unit, and ran 4 times in
each direction (my PC program allows me to do that automatically, so I don't
need to take the board from one side to re-insert in the other side of the
laminator)
- Took the board off, and put it on the cold water bath
- The board came WONDERFULLY TRANSFERED. Wow!
My DOs and DON'Ts:
- Fuser units that has plastic bearings on the fuser roller sides are
complicated to work. Mine melted the plastic 2 times while I was looking for
the maximum temperature I can use.
- If you have money for a commercial laminator unit, go for it!
- The board has to be completely clean, of course
- In high temperatures (as you can see in the photos I put on the site)
the ink of the magazine can be transfered to the board. Use a clean sheet of
couche paper, or if you can, the lighest printed page you can find on the
magazine.
- The "secret secret" of the thermal transfer isn't really TEMPERATURE
but EVEN PRESSURE.
Greetz for all!
Alexandre Souza
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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2004-06-06 by Stefan Trethan
On Sun, 6 Jun 2004 12:07:50 -0300, Alexandre Souza
<
alexandre-listas@...> wrote:
>
> SUCESS!
>
> Yesterday I gave a try on ppdeayal method of thermal transfer.
>
that's a nice one for a first try.
you will see the quality will improve even more with experience.
If you want to make a component outline (falsely called "silkscreen") then
make the same transfer, but clean the board with abrasive kitchen cleaner
afterwards.
(the type which gets off really nasty stuff, with tiny abrasive particles)
the cleaner polishes away the white paper residue.
I always thought i don't need that on my boards but the looks are well
worth
the 5 minutes effort.
ST
2004-06-09 by luismoreira_2004
Hi Guys
I have not tryed the method your describing or even understand the
thermal transfer method, but I would like to give it a go in a few
weeks and I do not want to buy a laminator. I came across a HP laser
jet 4 printer which is going in the bin, the question is can I use
the fuser unit from this Printer ? what should I look for ? I have no
problems with building the control board for the stepper motor or the
temperature control board.
best regards
Luis
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Alexandre Souza" <alexandre-
listas@e...> wrote:
>
> SUCESS!
>
> Yesterday I gave a try on ppdeayal method of thermal transfer.
>
> Got an old Toshiba Pagemaster printer, dismanteled and got the
entire
> fuser assembly and gear unit. Built it onto a board of wood and a
small
> circuit to drive the step motor. In my first try, I got so much
sucess I'm
> really amazed. Here is how it happened:
>
> - Got a Couche paper (time magazine, in Brazil we have "Veja")
sheet and
> glued it with double sided tape into an A4 sheet. My HP Laserjet 4
plus
> cannot feed a paper so thin, so I used the A4 sheet as a carrier.
>
> - Printed the circuit in the darkest mode possible
>
> - Warmed the fuser unit, monitoring temperature in the
thermistor (The
> IDEAL temperature of the fuser unit is between 190 and 210 degrees.
In HP
> printers the Thermal Fuse opens in 210 degrees celsius, so keep this
> temperature lower!)
>
> - Put the board + paper sandwich in the fuser unit, and ran 4
times in
> each direction (my PC program allows me to do that automatically,
so I don't
> need to take the board from one side to re-insert in the other side
of the
> laminator)
>
> - Took the board off, and put it on the cold water bath
>
> - The board came WONDERFULLY TRANSFERED. Wow!
>
> My DOs and DON'Ts:
>
> - Fuser units that has plastic bearings on the fuser roller
sides are
> complicated to work. Mine melted the plastic 2 times while I was
looking for
> the maximum temperature I can use.
> - If you have money for a commercial laminator unit, go for it!
> - The board has to be completely clean, of course
> - In high temperatures (as you can see in the photos I put on
the site)
> the ink of the magazine can be transfered to the board. Use a clean
sheet of
> couche paper, or if you can, the lighest printed page you can find
on the
> magazine.
> - The "secret secret" of the thermal transfer isn't really
TEMPERATURE
> but EVEN PRESSURE.
>
> Greetz for all!
> Alexandre Souza
>
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.699 / Virus Database: 456 - Release Date: 05/06/04
2004-06-09 by Stefan Trethan
On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 12:37:07 -0000, luismoreira_2004 <
luis.moreira@...>
wrote:
> Hi Guys
> I have not tryed the method your describing or even understand the
> thermal transfer method, but I would like to give it a go in a few
> weeks and I do not want to buy a laminator. I came across a HP laser
> jet 4 printer which is going in the bin, the question is can I use
> the fuser unit from this Printer ? what should I look for ? I have no
> problems with building the control board for the stepper motor or the
> temperature control board.
> best regards
> Luis
>
>
look how the rollers are suspended, if the thick boards will fit.
look if the bearings are spring-loaded and if you can adjust the pressure.
get the fuser unit itself, and the gears and motor you need.
You should also be able to find a triac and a optocoupler in the fuser
control circuit. you can use this for your control circuit.
If you need help with the temperature control i will finally write
up a quick guide and schematic for the simple control i use.
I was too lazy to fit the original copier motor, i used a chicken grill
rotating
motor with great success.
Next time you are at the paper store look out for matt inkjet photo paper.
if there are several versions get the lightest/thinnest.
In the database section you find different papers and results.
ST
2004-06-11 by Alexandre Souza
> I have not tryed the method your describing or even understand the
> thermal transfer method, but I would like to give it a go in a few
> weeks and I do not want to buy a laminator. I came across a HP laser
> jet 4 printer which is going in the bin, the question is can I use
> the fuser unit from this Printer ? what should I look for ? I have no
> problems with building the control board for the stepper motor or the
> temperature control board.
> best regards
> Luis
Luis, are you in Brazil?
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2004-06-12 by luismoreira_2004
Hi Alexandre
No, I'm Portuguese and I live in England,UK.
Best regards
Luis
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Alexandre Souza" <alexandre-
listas@e...> wrote:
> > I have not tryed the method your describing or even understand
the
> > thermal transfer method, but I would like to give it a go in a
few
> > weeks and I do not want to buy a laminator. I came across a HP
laser
> > jet 4 printer which is going in the bin, the question is can I
use
> > the fuser unit from this Printer ? what should I look for ? I
have no
> > problems with building the control board for the stepper motor or
the
> > temperature control board.
> > best regards
> > Luis
>
> Luis, are you in Brazil?
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.699 / Virus Database: 456 - Release Date: 04/06/04
2004-06-12 by Stefan Trethan
Hi all,
I have found a slightly unusual use for TT component outline printing.
Well, see for yourself:
<
http://st.such.info/tt_number.jpg>
You can make signs, this one is on FR4 but i'm sure metal and anything
heat resistant works too.
--> printed front panels etc.
I polish the white paper residue off with abrasive kitchen cleaner.
As you can see it has a big solid black area, which is not totally opaque
if you hold it against light.
Not a problem here but no good if you want to etch.
I really like TT.
ST
2004-06-22 by joshdewinter
Hey Stefan and everyone.
Long time no talk. I have been going crazy with a number of things
that have kept me away from the group for a while. Now that I'm home
and in front of a PC, I was clicking through messages and came across
this thread that showed a sign you had made. I know you've no doubt
been asked this before, but have you posted the methods and materials
you used for this particular transfer anywhere? I was impressed with
the sharpness and lack of visible pits, and was wondering if maybe
anything had changed in the few months I've been off the group.
Thanks, and nice work.
-Josh
--- In
Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Trethan
<stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I have found a slightly unusual use for TT component outline
printing.
>
> Well, see for yourself:
>
> <http://st.such.info/tt_number.jpg>
>
> You can make signs, this one is on FR4 but i'm sure metal and
anything
> heat resistant works too.
> --> printed front panels etc.
>
>
> I polish the white paper residue off with abrasive kitchen cleaner.
> As you can see it has a big solid black area, which is not totally
opaque
> if you hold it against light.
> Not a problem here but no good if you want to etch.
>
> I really like TT.
>
> ST
2004-06-22 by Stefan Trethan
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 07:05:35 -0000, joshdewinter <
joshdewinter@...>
wrote:
> Hey Stefan and everyone.
> Long time no talk. I have been going crazy with a number of things
> that have kept me away from the group for a while. Now that I'm home
> and in front of a PC, I was clicking through messages and came across
> this thread that showed a sign you had made. I know you've no doubt
> been asked this before, but have you posted the methods and materials
> you used for this particular transfer anywhere? I was impressed with
> the sharpness and lack of visible pits, and was wondering if maybe
> anything had changed in the few months I've been off the group.
>
> Thanks, and nice work.
>
> -Josh
It's just standard transfer, nothing special.
The big black area is slightly see-through, no good for etching.
I plan on writing pages for tt, smd soldering, etc.. as soon as i have
a digital camera for photos.
ST
2004-08-28 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2004-08-28 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2004-08-29 by JanRwl@AOL.COM
2004-08-30 by Cristian
At 01:55 30/08/04, you wrote:
>In a message dated 8/28/2004 9:56:26 AM Central Standard Time,
>Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com writes:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/files/Rd%20to%20Sq%20BMP.bmp
>Yahoo says this is NOT a valid file!
Strange. It was there and valid. I've opened it to check is OK.
For me the answer is: no file there.
I'll upload it again.
Cristian
----------
---
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2004-08-30 by Steve
I deleted this after I downloaded it, converted it to a 4 color GIF,
and reuploaded it. I deleted it again, as if you look in the Files
area you will still find it under this:
RoundOrSquarePCBTracks.gif
by cristianluiza, converted to a 4 color GIF by Steve
There was a notice sent to the list about this.
A BMP is a bad idea for graphics on the web. As a BMP, it was almost
600K. As a 4 color GIF it was only 10K. This saves file space for more
files. Otherwise, eventually I have to start deleting things.
Check out IRFANVIEW, it's free and can do such conversions.
I also took all the spaces out of the file name, as this can cause
strange problems depending on the OS, browser version, phase of the
moon, etc.
Thanks,
Steve the listowner
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Cristian <bip@f...> wrote:
> At 01:55 30/08/04, you wrote:
>
> >In a message dated 8/28/2004 9:56:26 AM Central Standard Time,
> >Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com writes:
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/files/Rd%20to%20Sq%20BMP.bmp
> >Yahoo says this is NOT a valid file!
> Strange. It was there and valid. I've opened it to check is OK.
> For me the answer is: no file there.
> I'll upload it again.
> Cristian
2004-08-30 by Cristian
>
>RoundOrSquarePCBTracks.gif
>by cristianluiza, converted to a 4 color GIF by Steve
Thank you, Steve.
For the future I'll follow the rule.
I'm not so familiar with different format's size.
Cristian
----------
---
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2005-05-29 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2005-05-29 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2005-05-31 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2005-05-31 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2005-05-31 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2005-05-31 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2005-05-31 by Robert Hedan
Sorry,
Resized the 1st three pics, and properly labelled JR folder as plotter.
If the links don't work any more, please refer to the Files section of the
group.
Robert
d'oh!
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2005-07-25 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2005-08-17 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2005-09-08 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2005-11-27 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2005-12-19 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2005-12-19 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2006-01-31 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2006-02-01 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2006-02-01 by whoop@blueyonder.co.uk
> File : /Toner_Transfer/TT-top.jpg
> Uploaded by : mycroft2152 <mycroft2152@...>
Is it just me, or is that picture such bad quality that it doesn't
tell anyone anything?
John
2006-02-01 by Stefan Trethan
On Wed, 01 Feb 2006 22:28:28 +0100, <
whoop@...> wrote:
> Is it just me, or is that picture such bad quality that it doesn't
>
> tell anyone anything?
>
>
> John
me too.
that's jpg for you.
i think a very small section shown a lot larger would show more.
ST
2006-02-02 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2006-02-02 by mycroft2152
I just downloaded a magnified view of the board.
Note: the difference between the text (black) and the components is
due to the software printing the components in color. The laser
printer converts the color to a grey scale.
TANSTAAFL!
Myc
--- In
Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan"
<stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
>
> On Wed, 01 Feb 2006 22:28:28 +0100, <whoop@...> wrote:
>
> > Is it just me, or is that picture such bad quality that it
doesn't
> >
> > tell anyone anything?
> >
> >
> > John
>
>
> me too.
>
> that's jpg for you.
>
> i think a very small section shown a lot larger would show more.
>
> ST
>
2006-02-02 by Steve
--- In
Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mycroft2152" <mycroft2152@...>
wrote:
>
> I just downloaded a magnified view of the board.
Instead of saving space by highly compressing (which I appreciate),
instead don't use such a huge background. Just add enough below the
PCB to contain the text, and use a plain solid color background.
Thanks,
Steve Greenfield
2006-02-03 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2006-02-03 by mycroft2152
Something like this?
<
http://f2.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/kBvjQ47W8i3CcUZ8tE4K31tkOr11LqdXUcluTks
hHb5rQ8xeNIQPQE6sUts3bbOQRyqAYMrR_RxDD8tLwdMxxC1_gnfGgPhonw/Toner_Tra
nsfer/TT-top-2-%28magnified%29.jpg>
Myc
--- In
Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <alienrelics@...>
wrote:
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mycroft2152" <mycroft2152@>
> wrote:
> >
> > I just downloaded a magnified view of the board.
>
> Instead of saving space by highly compressing (which I appreciate),
> instead don't use such a huge background. Just add enough below the
> PCB to contain the text, and use a plain solid color background.
>
> Thanks,
> Steve Greenfield
>
2006-02-03 by Alan King
http://www.modellights.com/images/cnc/inthebag.jpg
The whitish green pile near the tool tip represents about 50" x .04"
worth of ultrafine PCB dust. Much nicer when it's all inside of
something than when not, and beats the heck out of bothering with a
vacuum. Just punched a hole and screwed the flex shaft collar back onto
the tool with the bag.. So clean I did this within a few feet of the
computer, something I'd never do in the open.
Does add some additional risks. Your hand is trapped inside to hold
the board. Tool can grab bag, and wind it in. Etc etc. Must be very
slow and deliberate while moving around with tool on, once in the work
it's not much more danger than any use of a dremel. Much better would
be to build a cardboard or wood board holder, to get your hand away and
outside the bag.. I only needed a few so just took it slow and
careful. Real point is even with CNC or other automated cutting, you
can still bag the mess, and it's very simple and easy to do. Tool, pcb,
and mess on the inside, motor, heat, and easy breathing on the outside..
Was going to take the B&D $25 walmart tool back, but had it in the car
and the other tools were mounted so used it with a .04" diamond cut
router from tools and tunes. Easily cut my cut outs freehand with
around .1" spacing. Could probably do within .07" or less with a little
care and practice. Extremely smooth tool and far more comfortable to
use than the dremel, so much so I cut out 5 by hand instead of the 2 I'd
planned for immediate use. The little thing on top that rotates to lock
the tool also has a rubber pad to put your index finger on for a better
3 point grip of the tool. I didn't like the new shape at first since
the original handi tool shape was comfortable, but now I'd say it's much
better than any other rotary tool I've ever used.
Dremel and flex shaft are attached to the board and inside the bag.
3600 step per rev geared stepper inside too, to round my boards in a
later step.. This will give you the general idea..
http://www.modellights.com/images/temp/assembly4.jpg
Haven't done any video of the end result yet, but the pics in here are
representative, especially the lights.jpg. Note the nice gaping hole in
the middle of the board..
http://www.modellights.com/images/Jupiter2Lights/j2new/
Now to get back on to the CNC..
Alan
2006-02-09 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2006-02-13 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2006-03-16 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2006-04-05 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2006-04-07 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2006-04-07 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2006-05-16 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2006-08-07 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2006-08-07 by Stefan Trethan
On Mon, 07 Aug 2006 21:05:58 +0200, <
Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
> File : /Direct_Inkjet_Resist_Printing/EPSON R220
> Printer/R220-CD-Tray-1.jpg
I see so these trays are not full width....
But still i think you could cut away all those ribs that prevent a square
CD to be printed.
How does the printer adjust the head height so that the head does not
crash into the tray? Is there some lifting mechanism?
ST
2006-08-07 by lcdpublishing
Correct,
The tray is only about 1/2 width. The printer has a clear area from
front to back ONLY in the area where that tray feeds through.
Oddly, it starts out with you feeding the tray in from the front of
the printer unlike paper which goes in the back.
When you open the "Special door" for the CD tray, it lifts the print
head assembly up for the extra clearance.
When I tore mine apart most of the way, I found "Something" blocking
the path for sheet feeding from the back. I didn't have time to dig
deeper to find out what is there though. My plan, if I ever get
time to work on it again, is to NOT use the CD printing functions.
Rather, to remove everything in the way for feeding the stock in
from the back side. I am hoping to trick the printer into thinking
it is printing on regular paper.
--- In
Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan"
<stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
>
> On Mon, 07 Aug 2006 21:05:58 +0200,
<
Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > File : /Direct_Inkjet_Resist_Printing/EPSON R220
> > Printer/R220-CD-Tray-1.jpg
>
>
> I see so these trays are not full width....
>
> But still i think you could cut away all those ribs that prevent a
square
> CD to be printed.
>
> How does the printer adjust the head height so that the head does
not
> crash into the tray? Is there some lifting mechanism?
>
>
> ST
>
2006-08-07 by Stefan Trethan
On Mon, 07 Aug 2006 21:25:32 +0200, lcdpublishing
<
lcdpublishing@...> wrote:
> Correct,
> The tray is only about 1/2 width. The printer has a clear area from
> front to back ONLY in the area where that tray feeds through.
> Oddly, it starts out with you feeding the tray in from the front of
> the printer unlike paper which goes in the back.
> When you open the "Special door" for the CD tray, it lifts the print
> head assembly up for the extra clearance.
> When I tore mine apart most of the way, I found "Something" blocking
> the path for sheet feeding from the back. I didn't have time to dig
> deeper to find out what is there though. My plan, if I ever get
> time to work on it again, is to NOT use the CD printing functions.
> Rather, to remove everything in the way for feeding the stock in
> from the back side. I am hoping to trick the printer into thinking
> it is printing on regular paper.
I see....
but then you end up with a major modification as well, not that it would
bother us mechanically inclined people ;-)
The allure of the CD printer would be that it would work without much
modification.
ST
2006-08-07 by Myc Holmes
Hi Chris,
The R220 was the first priter that I ever saw that moved the printhead in
the Z direction. It also lifts the head off the ink pad for printing. This
probably helps keep the ink moist ands prevents clogging the nozzles.
There are a lot mods possible for the ambious mnded pcb maker, that is
someone who has the money, skills, needs and desire to create a dedicated
pcb printer.
I'm working on a KISS machine, with the minimum mods needed..
Since many people use the free version EAGLE with its 3" x 4" limitation,
the CD tray should be more than adequate. If the only mod is to cut out the
center hub in the cd tray and replace the black cartridge with a yellow MIS
Ink cartridge, then a lot more people will be using the technique. There are
stilll many questions to be anwered including the need to use the black
print head instead of the yellow.
Myc
On 8/7/06, lcdpublishing <lcdpublishing@...> wrote:
>
> Correct,
>
> The tray is only about 1/2 width. The printer has a clear area from
> front to back ONLY in the area where that tray feeds through.
> Oddly, it starts out with you feeding the tray in from the front of
> the printer unlike paper which goes in the back.
>
> When you open the "Special door" for the CD tray, it lifts the print
> head assembly up for the extra clearance.
>
> When I tore mine apart most of the way, I found "Something" blocking
> the path for sheet feeding from the back. I didn't have time to dig
> deeper to find out what is there though. My plan, if I ever get
> time to work on it again, is to NOT use the CD printing functions.
> Rather, to remove everything in the way for feeding the stock in
> from the back side. I am hoping to trick the printer into thinking
> it is printing on regular paper.
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "Stefan Trethan"
>
> <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, 07 Aug 2006 21:05:58 +0200,
> <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > File : /Direct_Inkjet_Resist_Printing/EPSON R220
> > > Printer/R220-CD-Tray-1.jpg
> >
> >
> > I see so these trays are not full width....
> >
> > But still i think you could cut away all those ribs that prevent a
> square
> > CD to be printed.
> >
> > How does the printer adjust the head height so that the head does
> not
> > crash into the tray? Is there some lifting mechanism?
> >
> >
> > ST
> >
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2006-08-07 by Stefan Trethan
I really get the hang of this inkjet printing business now.
Found the clothes iron upside down will work to cure the boards, as long
as i give it time to settle (burned one board with the initial overshoot).
High time to make an oven, but the puny toaster ovens are not nearly fast
enough for a SMD profile. Haven't quite figured out what to do in that
regard yet.
I was kinda hoping someone is going to make a temperature controller with
the atmega-8 so that i don't have to bother designing a circuit, looks
like that's not happening and i'll have to roll my own (without micro!).
One thing though, while i can do "normal" PCBs easily (8mil or even 6mil
no problem) i can't seem to get quite as good results as Volkan. he seems
to have lines below 4mil that come out allright during etching. This may
simply be because he uses FeCl, or because he uses another printer.
Anyway, this is not worrying me because 4 or 6mil is quite enough for me.
I'm also not quite certain about the ink thickness - i must use the
highest setting, he said he uses the lowest setting. I made another test
PCB with all the settings and again it came out that only the highest
works. Maybe it is because he is using several color heads - the sum of
those may be as much as my single head on a higher setting. I will try
this once i own more colors.
BTW, Volkan, how do you get the blasted ink off the PCBs?
That's tough stuff! The only way i could find so far is scrubbing with an
abrasive pad. Any suggestions?
Acetone won't do it once the ink is cured, and i don't particularly want
to use a solvent that makes me grow another head.
ST
2006-08-07 by Stefan Trethan
On Mon, 07 Aug 2006 21:48:36 +0200, Myc Holmes <
mycroft2152y@...>
wrote:
> There are
> stilll many questions to be anwered including the need to use the black
> print head instead of the yellow.
> Myc
This should not be needed with the R220. Google says it has 90 nozzles for
each color.
The c84 has 180 nozzles for black, and 59 nozzles for color, so that's why.
I think one of volkan's printers uses around 90 nozzles too, check..
BTW the 180 nozzles must make it so fast in the text mode. I mean it can
shoot out a page with really only a few passes of the head.
I know i said this before, but i'm just so amazed by it because the last
inkjet i used was a HP deskjet 550C.
Also, i was quite amazed when i noticed that it'll do a nozzle check
without any movement of the paper. Not about the fact that it makes the
check that way, that makes sense if you think about it, but about the
one-inch long row of nozzles needed to create such a thing... Quite
something if you are used to 16 nozzles....
ST
2006-08-07 by lcdpublishing
Not all that sure about how much work it is to modify. Like I said,
that "Something" blocking the path could be "nothing" much too. It
could just be more of that ink pad stuff to soak up the ink to keep
the money flowing ;-)
The back area of the plastic could easily be cut through so that
isn't a "big deal". But won't know till I dig deeper into it.
Chris
--- In
Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan"
<stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
>
> On Mon, 07 Aug 2006 21:25:32 +0200, lcdpublishing
> <lcdpublishing@...> wrote:
>
> > Correct,
> > The tray is only about 1/2 width. The printer has a clear area
from
> > front to back ONLY in the area where that tray feeds through.
> > Oddly, it starts out with you feeding the tray in from the front
of
> > the printer unlike paper which goes in the back.
> > When you open the "Special door" for the CD tray, it lifts the
print
> > head assembly up for the extra clearance.
> > When I tore mine apart most of the way, I found "Something"
blocking
> > the path for sheet feeding from the back. I didn't have time to
dig
> > deeper to find out what is there though. My plan, if I ever get
> > time to work on it again, is to NOT use the CD printing
functions.
> > Rather, to remove everything in the way for feeding the stock in
> > from the back side. I am hoping to trick the printer into
thinking
> > it is printing on regular paper.
>
>
> I see....
> but then you end up with a major modification as well, not that it
would
> bother us mechanically inclined people ;-)
>
> The allure of the CD printer would be that it would work without
much
> modification.
>
>
>
> ST
>
2006-08-07 by Volkan Sahin
I am also scrubbing boards. On the other hand these
inks can not resist high alkaline solutions so you can
try NaOH or ammonia (if you can stay in the same
room):).
Volkan
... how do you get the blasted ink off the PCBs?
2006-08-07 by Stefan Trethan
On Mon, 07 Aug 2006 22:34:53 +0200, Volkan Sahin <
vsahin@...>
wrote:
> I am also scrubbing boards. On the other hand these
> inks can not resist high alkaline solutions so you can
> try NaOH or ammonia (if you can stay in the same
> room):).
> Volkan
Hey good idea, i'll try Steve's special ammonia cleaner (i don't dare open
the bottle with the more concentrated ammonia indoors ;-)).
Indeed - it works! Well, sort of. All the dark ink comes off, but still a
thin much more transparent red film is left on the copper.... Not sure
why. Does only come off with scrubbing, but much less scrubbing!
ST
2006-08-07 by Chris Horne
--- In
Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan"
<stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
>
>
> I really get the hang of this inkjet printing business now.
> Found the clothes iron upside down will work to cure the boards, as
long
> as i give it time to settle (burned one board with the initial
overshoot).
Stefan,
would the kitchen oven not do the job ?
We have a double oven and I already use the top oven to heat plastic
for vacuum forming, the temperature control on mine keeps it to with
20 degrees or so (I checked it with a pyrometer!)
Chris
2006-08-07 by Stefan Trethan
On Mon, 07 Aug 2006 23:01:00 +0200, Chris Horne <
chris@...> wrote:
> Stefan,
> would the kitchen oven not do the job ?
> We have a double oven and I already use the top oven to heat plastic
> for vacuum forming, the temperature control on mine keeps it to with
> 20 degrees or so (I checked it with a pyrometer!)
> Chris
I don't really like the idea.
It's inconvenient and i don't have the place for another full sized oven
for PCBs.
Also, i'm fairly certain the thermostat is far less accurate than yours..
It takes quite a while to heat up too...
Thanks anyways.
ST
2006-08-19 by Michael Neary
Ok,
So I bought the R320 (I needed a $50 printer anyway). Has anything
been discovered about the CD tray? It looks to me on initial
inspection that the printer sees the tray and insists on printing a CD
(100mm diameter).
Any overrides found yet?
(I'll be working on this too, and I'll keep everyone posted if I learn
anything.)
regards,
Mike
2006-09-07 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2006-09-18 by Chris Horne
Stefan,
I haven't yet modified a printer, but I want to try for another source
of ink here in the UK.. I have just sent for a sample...
Would spotting a board with ink, curing and etching it be a good
enough test?
Chris
--- In
Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan"
<stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
>
> On Mon, 07 Aug 2006 23:01:00 +0200, Chris Horne <chris@...> wrote:
>
> > Stefan,
> > would the kitchen oven not do the job ?
> > We have a double oven and I already use the top oven to heat plastic
> > for vacuum forming, the temperature control on mine keeps it to with
> > 20 degrees or so (I checked it with a pyrometer!)
> > Chris
>
>
> I don't really like the idea.
> It's inconvenient and i don't have the place for another full sized
oven
> for PCBs.
> Also, i'm fairly certain the thermostat is far less accurate than
yours..
> It takes quite a while to heat up too...
>
> Thanks anyways.
>
> ST
>
2006-09-19 by Stefan Trethan
On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 01:36:39 +0200, Chris Horne <
chris@...> wrote:
> Stefan,
> I haven't yet modified a printer, but I want to try for another source
> of ink here in the UK.. I have just sent for a sample...
> Would spotting a board with ink, curing and etching it be a good
> enough test?
> Chris
It would show which inks definitely don't work, but not necessarily that
they will work.
ST
2006-11-20 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Hello,
This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the Homebrew_PCBs
group.
File : /PhotoEtching/ScreenPrintEmulsionAsEtchResist.zip
Uploaded by : alienrelics <
alienrelics@...>
Description : by hjf2k2. Photo etching using screen-print photo emulsion as etch resist. Brushed on and dried, exposed by suspending under a fluorescent ceiling fixture. Images cropped by listowner, extraneous images deleted to save file space. 4Meg in a RAR and a JPG turned into 616KB in one ZIP file. Search the archives for "cheap photo etching" and "silk screen emulsion" for the threads.
You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/files/PhotoEtching/ScreenPrintEmulsionAsEtchResist.zip
To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
Regards,
alienrelics <
alienrelics@...>
2007-01-02 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2007-02-22 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2008-07-20 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2008-07-20 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
2008-07-20 by Mike
Remarkable. Congratulations on your achievement.
On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 11:20 PM, <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> This email message is a notification to let you know that
> a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the Homebrew_PCBs
> group.
>
> File : /Epson_inkjet_Volkan/inductor4mil_4mil_1.jpg
> Uploaded by : v_sahin <v_sahin@...>
> Description : Homemade inkjet printer test PCB results
>
> You can access this file at the URL:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/files/Epson_inkjet_Volkan/inductor4mil_4mil_1.jpg
>
> To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
>
> http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.htmlfiles
>
> Regards,
>
> v_sahin <v_sahin@...>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
--
73,
Mike, K4GMH
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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2011-02-28 by Jeff Heiss
2011-02-28 by Boman33
Remember that I bought mine at least 15 years ago but it looks the same.
I never measured the RPM but keep in mind that RPM will also depend on air
pressure and lubrication.
I modified the exhaust and air intake to separate the two. The white hose
on the side is the air supply. I put a muffler on the exhaust pipe to keep
the noise down. The slide is from some equipment I disassembled.
Bertho
From: Jeff Heiss Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 23:12
Is the drill you used the one sold at Harbor Freight and Ebay for about $25?
If so, I have the same drill and I have two comments on it. First it uses a
lot of air. Second, I measured the rpm and it only does 30,000 when the box
says 56,000. Have you noticed these two things? Also what is the white
tube on the side and where did you obtain the linear slide?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2011-02-28 by Jeff Heiss
The exhaust port you put on confirms yours is the same as the Harbor
Freight/Ebay ones. Out of curiosity would you be able to measure the rpm on
yours? Even at 120psi, mine only produces 33,000 rpm.
_____
From:
Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Boman33
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 12:36 AM
To:
Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] New file uploaded to Homebrew_PCBs
Remember that I bought mine at least 15 years ago but it looks the same.
I never measured the RPM but keep in mind that RPM will also depend on air
pressure and lubrication.
I modified the exhaust and air intake to separate the two. The white hose
on the side is the air supply. I put a muffler on the exhaust pipe to keep
the noise down. The slide is from some equipment I disassembled.
Bertho
From: Jeff Heiss Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 23:12
Is the drill you used the one sold at Harbor Freight and Ebay for about $25?
If so, I have the same drill and I have two comments on it. First it uses a
lot of air. Second, I measured the rpm and it only does 30,000 when the box
says 56,000. Have you noticed these two things? Also what is the white
tube on the side and where did you obtain the linear slide?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2011-02-28 by Boman33
Jeff,
Even if the pictures match, they are not necessary the same. The design is
like to have been copied several times by different Chinese companies, often
with small improvements but sometimes with cost reductions that went too
far. So in the end it is very hard to know which one is what brand/model.
Sorry, I have not used it for 15 years and I am not setup right now to do
any testing.
Bertho
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: Jeff Heiss Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 02:13
The exhaust port you put on confirms yours is the same as the Harbor
Freight/Ebay ones. Out of curiosity would you be able to measure the rpm on
yours? Even at 120psi, mine only produces 33,000 rpm.
_____
From: Boman33 Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 12:36 AM
Remember that I bought mine at least 15 years ago but it looks the same.
I never measured the RPM but keep in mind that RPM will also depend on air
pressure and lubrication.
I modified the exhaust and air intake to separate the two. The white hose
on the side is the air supply. I put a muffler on the exhaust pipe to keep
the noise down. The slide is from some equipment I disassembled.
Bertho
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: Jeff Heiss Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 23:12
Is the drill you used the one sold at Harbor Freight and Ebay for about $25?
If so, I have the same drill and I have two comments on it. First it uses a
lot of air. Second, I measured the rpm and it only does 30,000 when the box
says 56,000. Have you noticed these two things? Also what is the white
tube on the side and where did you obtain the linear slide?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2011-03-07 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
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2014-03-27 by <kbyrne10@...>
The link to this message does not work for myself. Why I do not know.
Any ideas out there. Kevin
2014-08-15 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
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2014-08-20 by Mark Lerman
2014-08-20 by Slavko Kocjancic
On 20. 08. 2014 15:13, Mark Lerman
mlerman@... [Homebrew_PCBs]
wrote:
> Slavko,
>
> I cannot open the file - what is a .7Z extension?
>
> Mark
>
It's 7zip. The manual is little over 10M (limit in files section) and if
I use regular zip I cant compres it under 10M, but (new) 7zip (freware)
can compress under 10M...
the program is available for free at:
http://www.7-zip.org/
Slavko.
2014-08-31 by Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
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