Homebrew_PCBs

----- Original Message -----
From: "glasspusher2001" <glasspusher2001@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 6:11 PM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Cleaning PCB without Acetone


>I have difficulty in finding acetone.
> Can the board be cleaned sufficiently with other chemicals like
> isopropyl alchohol?

IPA works very well, I use it all the time.

Leon

> I have difficulty in finding acetone.
>
> Can the board be cleaned sufficiently with other chemicals like
>
> isopropyl alchohol?
>
>
> Don

>
> I have difficulty in finding acetone.
> Can the board be cleaned sufficiently with other chemicals like
> isopropyl alchohol?

>
> I have difficulty in finding acetone.
> Can the board be cleaned sufficiently with other chemicals like
> isopropyl alchohol?

> Hi Don,
>
>
> As Stefan pointed out, isopropyl alcohol can be used for cleaning,
>
> but it won't remove significant amounts of toner. When using
>
> isopropyl alcohol, use the anhydrous variety (99% pure or better).
>
> Rubbing alcohol from drug stores is 30% water and will leave residue.
>
>
> Home improvement stores should carry acetone in quart to gallon
>
> containers. In a pinch, you can use nail polish remover.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Dennis

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Richard <metal@...> wrote:
>
>
> You won't find "anhydrous" or 99% alcohol in a store.
>
> 90% is the highest you'll find isopropyl at.

----- Original Message -----
From: "dl5012" <dl5012@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 8:47 PM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Cleaning PCB without Acetone


> Hi Richard,
>
> I've bought 99% anhydrous isopropyl alcohol at a pharmacy in a
> hospital (special order) and at Frys Electronics. It runs around
> $4/pint. In the tekscopes group, someone said they bought it at
> Albertsons or Safeway...
>
> You can buy mail order from jameco.com -
> <http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?
> langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&productId=263572>
>
> Mail order in larger quantities may hit you with a hazmat charge.
> I've found places that sold it for around $15/gal, but hazmat fee of
> $40. Same with flux removers...
>
> Both IAP and ethanol are hygroscopic. IAP and acetone are highly
> flammable.

Acetone might be difficult to obtain, as it is a constituent of triacetone
triperoxide (TATP). TATP is the explosive of choice for suicide bombers -
easily made and very powerful.

Leon

> Acetone might be difficult to obtain, as it is a constituent of
> triacetone
> triperoxide (TATP).

> If you use HCl and H2O2 for etching, and acetone for cleaning, don't
>
> add the acetone to the etchant for disposal. It might form TATP, which
>
> would be very unstable at room temperature and could explode, although
>
> it is unlikely.
>
>
> Leon

> It never occured to me to use acetone for removing toner, I usually just
>
> scrub it off with a Scotch pad.

----- Original Message -----
From: "leon_heller" <leon.heller@...>


> If you use HCl and H2O2 for etching, and acetone for cleaning, don't
> add the acetone to the etchant for disposal. It might form TATP, which
> would be very unstable at room temperature and could explode, although
> it is unlikely.

So, what are the precise admixtures? I want to avoid combining the chemicals
in that particular dangerous manner.

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "leon_heller" <leon.heller@...>
>
>
>> If you use HCl and H2O2 for etching, and acetone for cleaning, don't
>> add the acetone to the etchant for disposal. It might form TATP, which

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Young" <mikewhy@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 10:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Acetone, HCl and H2O2 warning


> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "leon_heller" <leon.heller@...>
>
>
>> If you use HCl and H2O2 for etching, and acetone for cleaning, don't
>> add the acetone to the etchant for disposal. It might form TATP, which
>> would be very unstable at room temperature and could explode, although
>> it is unlikely.
>
> So, what are the precise admixtures? I want to avoid combining the
> chemicals
> in that particular dangerous manner.

Try Googling for TATP recipes. However, if you are in the USA you might get
the FBI after you as the NSA is monitoring internet traffic for that sort of
thing.

Leon

>
>
> So, what are the precise admixtures? I want to avoid combining the
> chemicals
>
> in that particular dangerous manner.

> MEK is another very effective solvent. VERY effective...<grin>.

>>MEK is another very effective solvent. VERY effective...<grin>.
>>
>>
>
>Has anyone here used MEK to remove toner? It's used to clean tools
>used with epoxy resins (before the resin hardens), so would it harm
>glass epoxy PCB material which is (obviously) already cured?
>
>Anyway, MEK sounds like some really nasty stuff in this post:
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/message/6180
>
>Does anyone here just scrub off the toner after etching using Ajax or
>Comet powder, a green 3M Scotchbrite pad and water? I've used that
>method to clean firmly bonded toner off of test boards used in my
>toner transfer experiments and it manages to get the toner off pretty
>quickly.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
>If Files or Photos are running short of space, post them here:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> I would be VERY careful about using MEK heaps - its an effective solvent
>
> for sure, but it also a recognised carcinogenic here in Australia, and
>
> therefore in the workplace occupational health guys go nuts over
>
> quantities used by individual workers and amospheric systems. But on
>
> the other hand, acetone and IPA are also highly flammable!!!
>
>
> Whichever you use use in a well ventilated area and be careful with
>
> ignition sources!!!
>
>
> Trev

>
> Isn't MEK the stuff that _will_ damage your eyes badly in case of

>
> ST

>
> Isn't MEK the stuff that _will_ damage your eyes badly in case of

>
> ST

>All of these chemicals are irritants so you should avoid getting them
>in your eyes, on your skin, or inhaled.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "dl5012" <dl5012@...> wrote:
>
> All of these chemicals are irritants so you should avoid getting them

> Yes. A link to an incident of such damage:
>
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/message/6180

>
> On Tue, 07 Feb 2006 18:30:06 +0100, wbblair3 <wbblair3@...> wrote:
>
> > Yes. A link to an incident of such damage:
> >
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/message/6180
>
>
> Ah yes, it was your story that made me aware of that, and to stay

> clear of MEK.
>
> As you say, wearing a face shield is best. I found them much more
> comfortable than goggles.
>
> For some reason i don't understand faceshields are very rare 'round

> they are not sold in normal tools shops or DIY stores or even the
> chemcials shop, while you can buy a variety of goggles at those

>
> Not only the vision is better, but it protects a much larger area,

> chippings in your nose or mouth when you cut something.
>
> I also use it for drilling PCBs.
>
> ST
>

> So probably we can't even buy water any more....

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Richard <metal@...> wrote:
>
>
> hi Dennis,
>
> Thanks much for the refs to possible sources.
>
> I was speaking mostly to what one would find with wide
> availability and low price; i.e at the grocery store.
>
> In any case, I've never had a problem using the 90% IPA.
>
> Leon: acetone is trivial to obtain. Just go to the hardware
> store and buy it by the gallon. At least, I've never had the
> slightest trouble finding it. Have not bought any for....4 yrs.
> now tho. Same with MEK. Right there on the shelf next
> to the Acetone, in 1-qt and 1-gal metal cans.
>
> Of course, the anal bureuacrats are making life more difficult
> every day. So probably we can't even buy water any more....
>
> Richard
> --
> ============================
> Please do NOT add or "subscribe" my name to ANY lists/databases.
>

>
> All of these chemicals are irritants so you should avoid getting them
> in your eyes, on your skin, or inhaled.
>
> ethanol - causes skin and eye irritation. Ingestion can cause nausea,
> vomitting, and inebriation. Chronic use can cause sever liver damage.
>
> denatured alcohol - same as ethanal except it can kill you

> IAP - harmful by inhalation, ingestion, or skin absorption. May act
> as an irritant.
>
> acetone - may be harmful by inhalation, ingestion, or skin
> absorption. Irritant - liquid may cause permanent eye damage (corneal
> clouding). Skin contact may cause defatting (always in my case...).
> Also called dimethyl ketone, methyl ketone.

> ferric chloride - corrosive - causes burns. Harmful if swallowed and
> in contact with skin. Prolonged contact may lead to dermatitis.

> Regards,
> Dennis

> There is another solvent that should be considered for cleaning
>
> pcb's, DHMO. I've used it successfully for many years.
>
>
> For further info:
>
>
> http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html
>
>
> TANSTAAFL!
>
>
> Myc

> On Tue, 07 Feb 2006 20:53:41 +0100, mycroft2152
> <mycroft2152@...>
> wrote:
>
> > There is another solvent that should be considered
> for cleaning
> >
> > pcb's, DHMO. I've used it successfully for many
> years.
> >
> >
> > For further info:
> >
> >
> > http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html
> >
> >
> > TANSTAAFL!
> >
> >
> > Myc
>
>
> I don't like that page.
> It is one of the less scientific ones.
>
> ST
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new
> Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
> If Files or Photos are running short of space, post
> them here:
>

>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>
>
>

> Several years ago acetone was the main ingredient in fingernail
>
> polish remover.
>
>
> A few weeks ago in the daily toolbox safety meeting, when grinding
>
> the company requires the use of both safety glasses or goggles and a
>
> full face shield. The face shield will stop most of the sparks and
>
> flying debris. Especially if the wheel should disintegrate. The
>
> safety glasses or goggles are for those small particles that manage
>
> to fly and get in between the face shield and your face.
>
>
> Mike

> What!?! They sell H2O at your place? Are they crazy? Didn't you know how
> dangerous that is? You can die from inhaling it!
> Lotsa people died that way already....

>
> In article <op.s4matst7mg0lsf@tu-x2pj5qeyp2u4>,
> Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
> > What!?! They sell H2O at your place? Are they crazy? Didn't you

> > dangerous that is? You can die from inhaling it!
> > Lotsa people died that way already....
>
> You can also kill yourself by drinking to much of it, that stuff is

>
> (alters the electrolyte balance in the body)
>

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "dl5012" <dl5012@...> wrote:
>
> There was a college kid at the University of Oregon who killed himself
> by trying to drink 5 gallons of water. It was a stupid Frat
> initiation stunt. I tell you, Fraternities can make people real
> stupid... Oh well, purges some undesireable traits out of the Gene
> Pool... <G>
>
> It's really a sad story about stupidity and grave consequences...
>
> Regards,
> Dennis

>
> On Tue, 07 Feb 2006 18:30:06 +0100, wbblair3 <wbblair3@...> wrote:
>
> > Yes. A link to an incident of such damage:
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/message/6180
>
>
> Ah yes, it was your story that made me aware of that, and to stay

>
> ST

>
> On Mon, 06 Feb 2006 22:07:14 +0100, leon_heller
> <leon.heller@...> wrote:
>
> > If you use HCl and H2O2 for etching, and acetone for cleaning, don't
> >
> > add the acetone to the etchant for disposal. It might form TATP, which
> >
> > would be very unstable at room temperature and could explode, although
> >
> > it is unlikely.
> >for a
> >
> > Leon
>
>
> More importantly, don't buy H2O2 together with Acetone and strong acids.
> That might just make them suspicious in some countries.
>
> ST

On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 19:21:25 +0100, wbblair3 <wbblair3@...> wrote:

> Simple fix. I'd suggest mixing your HCL/H2O2 etchant as soon as you
>
> purchase the ingredients. I suspect the resulting mixture would be
>
> either useless or very dangerous to use for creation of the nasty
>
> thing you mentioned.
>
>
> Secondly, don't use acetone to remove toner. Use lacquer thinner
>
> which contains a mix of solvents. Once again, I suspect that the mix
>
> of solvents would likely disrupt its use for nefarious purposes.
>
>
> It's a real shame that there is so very much paranoia about terrorism
>
> that even home PCB makers need to worry about what they buy. To put
>
> it in some rarely heard perspective, the number of Americans killed by
>
> international terrorism since the late 1960s (which is when the State
>
> Department began counting) is about the same as the number of
>
> Americans killed over the same period by lightning, or
>
> accident-causing deer, or severe allergic reaction to peanuts.
>

> The trick is there is only one clerk that insists on this inspection
> (how do you say - "full of piss and vinegar" isn't it?),