Digital BW, The Print

Well, I just setup my 220 for BO printing. (Eboni Black) 

  I have one feedback comment for you Clayton regarding the settings.
With the Gamma set at 1.8 I could not get the prints dark enough to
match my screen, even turning bightness down -20. This was remedied by
turning my gamma to 2.2. Brightness is now set at -7.

 The results are impressinve, I must say. I, too, am an old
photographer who simply adores TriX/HC-110. The look, to me, is
incomparable.
Anyway, that's just me.....many others do not like TX at all.

 I wanted to report what works for me because these settings might
have to be changed for the 220 vs. the 200.

 I also want to thank you for the wonderful series of articles on your
website.

 Best Regards
 Howard

Hello Howard,

>Well, I just setup my 220 for BO printing. (Eboni Black) 
>I have one feedback comment for you Clayton regarding the 
>settings. With the Gamma set at 1.8 I could not get the prints 
>dark enough to match my screen, even turning bightness down -20. 
>This was remedied by turning my gamma to 2.2. Brightness is now 
>set at -7.

The settings can vary among different systems, user settings and
preferences.   DG20 and GG2.2 are both very popular and widely used. 
The whole point of the article is to convey enough information to get
the basic concepts across and help people get started.  It's expected
that people will adapt the system to suit.  I'm glad it's working for
you. 


>The results are impressinve, I must say. I, too, am an old
>photographer who simply adores TriX/HC-110. The look, to me, is
>incomparable.  Anyway, that's just me.....many others do not like 
>TX at all.

I think HC-110 gets in your blood <g>.



>I also want to thank you for the wonderful series of articles 
>on your website.

You're welcome.  I'm glad they are helpful.  

Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

Hello Clayton,
altough I posted in another message, I still did not get any answer
which makes sense.
How do you do BO printing withj the Epson R2400?
In your articles, you mentioned we need a RIP. But which one?
Is there any other trick I can use?
I think BO printing is much closer to a traditional wet print. With
silver halides
you dont get shades of gray. The silver grains are either black or
they have been
washed away by the hypo. You get the grays through the density of the
silver grain vs the white paper. Just as in BO.

Regards
  Daniela



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton Jones"
<cj@...> wrote:

>
> Hello Howard,
> 
> >Well, I just setup my 220 for BO printing. (Eboni Black) 
> >I have one feedback comment for you Clayton regarding the 
> >settings. With the Gamma set at 1.8 I could not get the prints 
> >dark enough to match my screen, even turning bightness down -20. 
> >This was remedied by turning my gamma to 2.2. Brightness is now 
> >set at -7.
> 
> The settings can vary among different systems, user settings and
> preferences.   DG20 and GG2.2 are both very popular and widely used. 
> The whole point of the article is to convey enough information to get
> the basic concepts across and help people get started.  It's expected
> that people will adapt the system to suit.  I'm glad it's working for
> you. 
> 
> 
> >The results are impressinve, I must say. I, too, am an old
> >photographer who simply adores TriX/HC-110. The look, to me, is
> >incomparable.  Anyway, that's just me.....many others do not like 
> >TX at all.
> 
> I think HC-110 gets in your blood <g>.
> 
> 
> 
> >I also want to thank you for the wonderful series of articles 
> >on your website.
> 
> You're welcome.  I'm glad they are helpful.  
> 
> Regards,
> Clayton
> 
> 
> Info on black and white digital printing at    
> http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
>

Howard, could you expand on your methods a bit?  I too am using a r220 
and while the grain and gradations are amazing echoes of triX, my 
prints contain a light blue cast. this cast seems to vary depending on 
the density of the print.  i am absolutely befuddled: i keep double 
and triple checking my settings (from clayton's pages), and giving it 
a new try with a new picture, and so on; i've even scanned the photos 
in color just to double check myself--they are certainly blue in the 
scans. poking around in the epson supports pages, i found that black 
ink only mode still uses some color inks, which seems to be true as my 
color inks are diminishing without use.

i'm not sure where my problem is. i've tried gray-scale and color 
photos in the BO mode, tried letting the printer covert colors, let 
photoshop, or no conversion.  i'm using epson matte heavy and the 
original inks: is this black a true black?  i'd like to see a neutral 
colored print before investing any more in the printer, since i bought 
distinctly for the BO capability.

any help or ideas would be appreciated.
thanks!!

m




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "how786" 
<how786@...> wrote:
>
>   Well, I just setup my 220 for BO printing. (Eboni Black) 
> 
>   I have one feedback comment for you Clayton regarding the 
settings.
> With the Gamma set at 1.8 I could not get the prints dark enough to
> match my screen, even turning bightness down -20. This was remedied 
by
> turning my gamma to 2.2. Brightness is now set at -7.
> 
>  The results are impressinve, I must say. I, too, am an old
> photographer who simply adores TriX/HC-110. The look, to me, is
> incomparable.
> Anyway, that's just me.....many others do not like TX at all.
> 
>  I wanted to report what works for me because these settings might
> have to be changed for the 220 vs. the 200.
> 
>  I also want to thank you for the wonderful series of articles on 
your

> website.
> 
>  Best Regards
>  Howard
>

i know the epsons' typical maintenance uses up its ink; so just to 
clarify what epson's website says:

To keep the print head clear, the printer uses a small amount of ink 
from all the cartridges whenever it prints. Even if you select Black 
Only, some color ink is still being used.



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "mit Kase" 
<mitkase@...> wrote:
>
> Howard, could you expand on your methods a bit?  I too am using a 
r220 
> and while the grain and gradations are amazing echoes of triX, my 
> prints contain a light blue cast. this cast seems to vary depending 
on 
> the density of the print.  i am absolutely befuddled: i keep double 
> and triple checking my settings (from clayton's pages), and giving 
it 
> a new try with a new picture, and so on; i've even scanned the 
photos 
> in color just to double check myself--they are certainly blue in the 
> scans. poking around in the epson supports pages, i found that black 
> ink only mode still uses some color inks, which seems to be true as 
my 
> color inks are diminishing without use.
> 
> i'm not sure where my problem is. i've tried gray-scale and color 
> photos in the BO mode, tried letting the printer covert colors, let 
> photoshop, or no conversion.  i'm using epson matte heavy and the 
> original inks: is this black a true black?  i'd like to see a 
neutral 
> colored print before investing any more in the printer, since i 
bought 
> distinctly for the BO capability.
> 
> any help or ideas would be appreciated.
> thanks!!
> 
> m
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "how786" 
> <how786@> wrote:
> >
> >   Well, I just setup my 220 for BO printing. (Eboni Black) 
> > 
> >   I have one feedback comment for you Clayton regarding the 
> settings.
> > With the Gamma set at 1.8 I could not get the prints dark enough 
to
> > match my screen, even turning bightness down -20. This was 
remedied 

> by
> > turning my gamma to 2.2. Brightness is now set at -7.
> > 
> >  The results are impressinve, I must say. I, too, am an old
> > photographer who simply adores TriX/HC-110. The look, to me, is
> > incomparable.
> > Anyway, that's just me.....many others do not like TX at all.
> > 
> >  I wanted to report what works for me because these settings might
> > have to be changed for the 220 vs. the 200.
> > 
> >  I also want to thank you for the wonderful series of articles on 
> your
> > website.
> > 
> >  Best Regards
> >  Howard
> >
>

Sure. 
1-I  have no cast whatsoever.
2-I am using MIS Eboni Black ink for BO prints.
3-In the driver I have gamma at 2.2, 'black ink only' is checked,
  paper type is 'photo qual. inkjet paper', brightness is -8, contrast
is 0.

 I'm not so sure that in BO color inks are used at all. I think they
may only be used at startup or cartridge changes. I'm sure Clayton
could clarify this.

  I hope this helps.

Regards
Howard


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "mit Kase"
<mitkase@...> wrote:

>
> Howard, could you expand on your methods a bit?  I too am using a r220 
> and while the grain and gradations are amazing echoes of triX, my 
> prints contain a light blue cast. this cast seems to vary depending on 
> the density of the print.  i am absolutely befuddled: i keep double 
> and triple checking my settings (from clayton's pages), and giving it 
> a new try with a new picture, and so on; i've even scanned the photos 
> in color just to double check myself--they are certainly blue in the 
> scans. poking around in the epson supports pages, i found that black 
> ink only mode still uses some color inks, which seems to be true as my 
> color inks are diminishing without use.
> 
> i'm not sure where my problem is. i've tried gray-scale and color 
> photos in the BO mode, tried letting the printer covert colors, let 
> photoshop, or no conversion.  i'm using epson matte heavy and the 
> original inks: is this black a true black?  i'd like to see a neutral 
> colored print before investing any more in the printer, since i bought 
> distinctly for the BO capability.
> 
> any help or ideas would be appreciated.
> thanks!!
> 
> m
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "how786" 
> <how786@> wrote:
> >
> >   Well, I just setup my 220 for BO printing. (Eboni Black) 
> > 
> >   I have one feedback comment for you Clayton regarding the 
> settings.
> > With the Gamma set at 1.8 I could not get the prints dark enough to
> > match my screen, even turning bightness down -20. This was remedied 
> by
> > turning my gamma to 2.2. Brightness is now set at -7.
> > 
> >  The results are impressinve, I must say. I, too, am an old
> > photographer who simply adores TriX/HC-110. The look, to me, is
> > incomparable.
> > Anyway, that's just me.....many others do not like TX at all.
> > 
> >  I wanted to report what works for me because these settings might
> > have to be changed for the 220 vs. the 200.
> > 
> >  I also want to thank you for the wonderful series of articles on 
> your
> > website.
> > 
> >  Best Regards
> >  Howard
> >
>

Hello Daniela,

>How do you do BO printing withj the Epson R2400?
>In your articles, you mentioned we need a RIP. But which one?
>Is there any other trick I can use?

I'm not currently doing BO with the 2400.  I tried it last fall using
QTR and had pretty well worked out a curve, but the dot pattern was
extremely coarse and it looked terrible (tried every possible
setting).  I gave up on it, but Roy has since said that the 2400
handling has improved and maybe I should give it another try.  I hope
to do that but have been so busy the past months I haven't gotten back
to it.  I'll have more time after the end of May and will get the
latest version then and give it a try.  I hope to succeed with it
because right now I'm limited to letter size BO prints on the R200.  

Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

Hello Mit,

>...my prints contain a light blue cast. 
>i'm using...the original inks: is this black a true black? 

No, that's the problem.  The Dye K that comes with it is blue-ish. 
You need to get some refillable carts and a bottle of Eboni from MIS.
 You'll see a huge difference with this ink.


>...black ink only mode still uses some color inks, which seems to 
>be true as my color inks are diminishing without use.

My R200 does not use colors and I'm pretty sure the 220 is the same. 
The colors are slowly used up by the periodic cleanings.


Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

I'm also using the R220 and have done some BO onto letter paper.  I 
tested 6 or 7 papers to see the differences.  I highly recommend 
looking at the paper reviews on Clayton Jones' site and pay 
particular attention to the whiteness of the paper and the warmth of 
the ink.  

In my testing with MIS Eboni ink (seriously consider NOT using the 
Epson ink) the BO prints only come out cool on very cool paper like 
Moab Entrada Bright.  Try a warmer paper like Innova HW Cotton or 
Red River Dourian Art with Eboni and you should be fine.  
If you want a color inkset, try the MIS Pro color pigment inks.

Good luck,
Roger

> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "mit Kase"
> <mitkase@> wrote:
> >
> > Howard, could you expand on your methods a bit?  I too am using 
a r220 
> > and while the grain and gradations are amazing echoes of triX, 
my 
> > prints contain a light blue cast. this cast seems to vary 
depending on 
> > the density of the print.  i am absolutely befuddled: i keep 
double 
> > and triple checking my settings (from clayton's pages), and 
giving it 
> > a new try with a new picture, and so on; i've even scanned the 
photos 
> > in color just to double check myself--they are certainly blue in 
the 
> > scans. poking around in the epson supports pages, i found that 
black 
> > ink only mode still uses some color inks, which seems to be true 
as my 
> > color inks are diminishing without use.
> > 
> > i'm not sure where my problem is. i've tried gray-scale and 
color 
> > photos in the BO mode, tried letting the printer covert colors, 
let 
> > photoshop, or no conversion.  i'm using epson matte heavy and 
the 
> > original inks: is this black a true black?  i'd like to see a 
neutral 
> > colored print before investing any more in the printer, since i 
bought 
> > distinctly for the BO capability.
> > 
> > any help or ideas would be appreciated.
> > thanks!!
> > 
> > m
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "how786" 
> > <how786@> wrote:
> > >
> > >   Well, I just setup my 220 for BO printing. (Eboni Black) 
> > > 
> > >   I have one feedback comment for you Clayton regarding the 
> > settings.
> > > With the Gamma set at 1.8 I could not get the prints dark 
enough to
> > > match my screen, even turning bightness down -20. This was 
remedied 
> > by
> > > turning my gamma to 2.2. Brightness is now set at -7.
> > > 
> > >  The results are impressinve, I must say. I, too, am an old
> > > photographer who simply adores TriX/HC-110. The look, to me, is
> > > incomparable.
> > > Anyway, that's just me.....many others do not like TX at all.
> > > 
> > >  I wanted to report what works for me because these settings 
might
> > > have to be changed for the 220 vs. the 200.
> > > 
> > >  I also want to thank you for the wonderful series of articles 
on 

> > your
> > > website.
> > > 
> > >  Best Regards
> > >  Howard
> > >
> >
>

Good suggestion Roger.
 I forgot to mention that I did my early testing on Innova Smooth
Cotton which has a nice warm tonality to it. It reminds me of the Agfa
Multigrade paper I used in the wet darkroom back in my 'Dektol days'.
  <S>
 The results have been lovely.........
Howard

-- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Roger"
<rsmith02@...> wrote:

>
> I'm also using the R220 and have done some BO onto letter paper.  I 
> tested 6 or 7 papers to see the differences.  I highly recommend 
> looking at the paper reviews on Clayton Jones' site and pay 
> particular attention to the whiteness of the paper and the warmth of 
> the ink.  
> 
> In my testing with MIS Eboni ink (seriously consider NOT using the 
> Epson ink) the BO prints only come out cool on very cool paper like 
> Moab Entrada Bright.  Try a warmer paper like Innova HW Cotton or 
> Red River Dourian Art with Eboni and you should be fine.  
> If you want a color inkset, try the MIS Pro color pigment inks.
> 
> Good luck,
> Roger
> 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "mit Kase"
> > <mitkase@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Howard, could you expand on your methods a bit?  I too am using 
> a r220 
> > > and while the grain and gradations are amazing echoes of triX, 
> my 
> > > prints contain a light blue cast. this cast seems to vary 
> depending on 
> > > the density of the print.  i am absolutely befuddled: i keep 
> double 
> > > and triple checking my settings (from clayton's pages), and 
> giving it 
> > > a new try with a new picture, and so on; i've even scanned the 
> photos 
> > > in color just to double check myself--they are certainly blue in 
> the 
> > > scans. poking around in the epson supports pages, i found that 
> black 
> > > ink only mode still uses some color inks, which seems to be true 
> as my 
> > > color inks are diminishing without use.
> > > 
> > > i'm not sure where my problem is. i've tried gray-scale and 
> color 
> > > photos in the BO mode, tried letting the printer covert colors, 
> let 
> > > photoshop, or no conversion.  i'm using epson matte heavy and 
> the 
> > > original inks: is this black a true black?  i'd like to see a 
> neutral 
> > > colored print before investing any more in the printer, since i 
> bought 
> > > distinctly for the BO capability.
> > > 
> > > any help or ideas would be appreciated.
> > > thanks!!
> > > 
> > > m
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "how786" 
> > > <how786@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >   Well, I just setup my 220 for BO printing. (Eboni Black) 
> > > > 
> > > >   I have one feedback comment for you Clayton regarding the 
> > > settings.
> > > > With the Gamma set at 1.8 I could not get the prints dark 
> enough to
> > > > match my screen, even turning bightness down -20. This was 
> remedied 
> > > by
> > > > turning my gamma to 2.2. Brightness is now set at -7.
> > > > 
> > > >  The results are impressinve, I must say. I, too, am an old
> > > > photographer who simply adores TriX/HC-110. The look, to me, is
> > > > incomparable.
> > > > Anyway, that's just me.....many others do not like TX at all.
> > > > 
> > > >  I wanted to report what works for me because these settings 
> might
> > > > have to be changed for the 220 vs. the 200.
> > > > 
> > > >  I also want to thank you for the wonderful series of articles 
> on 
> > > your
> > > > website.
> > > > 
> > > >  Best Regards
> > > >  Howard
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Clayton--

Thanks!  Your website has been an invaluable resource.  I'm glad to 
hear the problem is with the ink--I had just wanted to make sure it 
was something changeable before I decided to keep the printer.

Interestingly, in Paint Shop Pro, I've discovered that when working in 
'proof' mode, *any* image will have a blue-ish cast to it.  Could this 
be a problem with the r220's stock ICC profile?  I am planning to get 
the MIS color inks w/ Eboni black, but I'd like to be able to use 
these inks for at least color-neutral prints, since I have opened 
them...


Thanks again,
m



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton Jones" 
<cj@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Mit,
> 
> >...my prints contain a light blue cast. 
> >i'm using...the original inks: is this black a true black? 
> 
> No, that's the problem.  The Dye K that comes with it is blue-ish. 
> You need to get some refillable carts and a bottle of Eboni from 
MIS.

>  You'll see a huge difference with this ink.
> 
> 
> >...black ink only mode still uses some color inks, which seems to 
> >be true as my color inks are diminishing without use.
> 
> My R200 does not use colors and I'm pretty sure the 220 is the same. 
> The colors are slowly used up by the periodic cleanings.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Clayton
> 
> 
> Info on black and white digital printing at    
> http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
>