Digital BW, The Print

I am looking to find out what the GSM thickness rating is. How does
the GSM rating compare to mm thickness. For example, how many mm is a
paper with a GSM of 255? How many GSM is a paper that is 1.3 mm? I am
also interested in finding out the maximum thickness of papre an Epson
2200 will handle. Thanks a lot and I appreciate any response. Steve

Steve,

I am no expert but I think the equation relies on a third component:  
density

Different papers have differing density. I expect you could obtain  
this information from the relevant manufacturer if you state the  
types of paper you would be using.

Drew

On 15 Mar 2006, at 05:10, deandadin wrote:

> I am looking to find out what the GSM thickness rating is. How does
> the GSM rating compare to mm thickness. For example, how many mm is a
> paper with a GSM of 255? How many GSM is a paper that is 1.3 mm? I am
> also interested in finding out the maximum thickness of papre an Epson
> 2200 will handle. Thanks a lot and I appreciate any response. Steve

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "deandadin"
<deandadin@...> wrote:
>
> I am looking to find out what the GSM thickness rating is. How does
> the GSM rating compare to mm thickness. For example, how many mm is a
> paper with a GSM of 255? How many GSM is a paper that is 1.3 mm? I am
> also interested in finding out the maximum thickness of papre an Epson
> 2200 will handle. Thanks a lot and I appreciate any response. Steve
>
The answer to both of your questions depends on the density of the
paper material. A dense paper which is 0.5mm thick may be heavier (in
GSM, grams per square metre) than a less dense paper 0.6mm thick.

In addition to this, an inkjet paper will in general be made up of
several layers of different materials with different densities and
thicknesses. So a thicker version of the same paper may simply have
one of the layers thicker but the other layers the same thickness. In
this case the weight would not be directly proportional to the
thickness but be something like (a + bx) where a and b are constants
and x is thickness.

In terms of the Epson 2200, I believe the manual tells you somewhere
what thicknesses are possible, and what the criteria are for using the
paper thickness lever and/or the rear feed slot. I've also found that
paper _stiffness_ is an issue when using the normal paper feed path on
the 2100/2200: if the paper is hard to bend, the take-up rollers can
slip on the paper & leave skid marks while trying to drag the paper
through the normal (bent) path.

Regards,

Alan

GSM is a measure of density - grams per square meter.
Paper of the same thickness can have different density depending on the
fiber composition and sheet formation. An alpha cellulose (wood based) sheet
will usually have a higher GSM per mil (1/1000 inch) caliper than a cotton
based paper.
For example: our Grayhawk (high alpha cellulose) paper is 12 mil caliper and
235 GSM. Our Merlin (100% cotton) paper is 15 mil and 255 GSM and our Condor
(100% cotton) paper is 20 mil and 325 GSM while our Kestrel (100% cotton
heavily textured) paper is 25 mil and 325 GSM. Kestrel is manufactured on an
entirely different paper machine with a different fiber length and
composition than Merlin and Condor.
Clear as mud -right <G>!

Diana York  mailto:diana@...
Hawk Mtn Papers www.hawkmtnartpapers.com
888-807-2248

-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
deandadin
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 12:10 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Regarding paper thickness


I am looking to find out what the GSM thickness rating is. How does
the GSM rating compare to mm thickness. For example, how many mm is a
paper with a GSM of 255? How many GSM is a paper that is 1.3 mm? I am
also interested in finding out the maximum thickness of paper an Epson
2200 will handle. Thanks a lot and I appreciate any response. Steve

Thanks Diana,

for Sharing that..you just saved me from writing a lengthly email.. You
couldnt have said it any better..



Cheers
Jim Doyle


J. Doyle Enterprises LLC
114 Old Orchard Rd
Cherry Hill, NJ 08003
856-424-8660
http://www.shadesofpaper.com
AOL IM: Brokerup99

  -----Original Message-----
  From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Diana
York~Hawk Mtn Papers
  Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 7:37 AM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Regarding paper thickness


  GSM is a measure of density - grams per square meter.
  Paper of the same thickness can have different density depending on the
  fiber composition and sheet formation. An alpha cellulose (wood based)
sheet
  will usually have a higher GSM per mil (1/1000 inch) caliper than a cotton
  based paper.
  For example: our Grayhawk (high alpha cellulose) paper is 12 mil caliper
and
  235 GSM. Our Merlin (100% cotton) paper is 15 mil and 255 GSM and our
Condor
  (100% cotton) paper is 20 mil and 325 GSM while our Kestrel (100% cotton
  heavily textured) paper is 25 mil and 325 GSM. Kestrel is manufactured on
an
  entirely different paper machine with a different fiber length and
  composition than Merlin and Condor.
  Clear as mud -right <G>!

  Diana York  mailto:diana@...
  Hawk Mtn Papers www.hawkmtnartpapers.com
  888-807-2248

  -----Original Message-----
  From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
  deandadin
  Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 12:10 AM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [Digital BW] Regarding paper thickness


  I am looking to find out what the GSM thickness rating is. How does
  the GSM rating compare to mm thickness. For example, how many mm is a
  paper with a GSM of 255? How many GSM is a paper that is 1.3 mm? I am
  also interested in finding out the maximum thickness of paper an Epson
  2200 will handle. Thanks a lot and I appreciate any response. Steve



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> On 15 Mar 2006, at 05:10, deandadin wrote:
  how many mm is a
> > paper with a GSM of 255? How many GSM is a paper that is 1.3 mm? I am
>   maximum thickness of papre an Epson
> > 2200 will handle.  

GSM isn't thickness, it's weight... though thicker papers usually are
higher GSM. 

I use 300 GSM Moab Entrada sometimes, 205 GSM Moab Kayenta a lot
(instead of Epson Enhanced Matte). Neither feeds fully properly
through the top but both are trouble-free through the back. The 300
can be MADE to work from the top by bending it, breaking its spine,
but it's easier simply to feed from the back. The 205 feeds fairly
reliably as single sheets from the top, but I want 100% reliability so
I feed it from the back as well. 

It'd be nice if we could use the top feeder with every sort of paper,
irrespective GSM and thickness, saving desktop space...but that's not
the way the 2200 was designed. 

For stacking paper in the top feeder, paper surface friction also
becomes a challenge, in addition to issues of GSM and thickness...

Hello Diana, I am trying to send you mail and I can't get the mail out to 
you. I am interested in finding out about your papers. Is there another address 
to E mail you. Thanks Steve


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Diana York~Hawk
Mtn Papers" <diana@...> wrote:
<snip>
> For example: our Grayhawk (high alpha cellulose) paper is 12 mil
caliper and
> 235 GSM. Our Merlin (100% cotton) paper is 15 mil and 255 GSM and
our Condor
> (100% cotton) paper is 20 mil and 325 GSM while our Kestrel (100% cotton
> heavily textured) paper is 25 mil and 325 GSM. Kestrel is
manufactured on an
> entirely different paper machine with a different fiber length and
> composition than Merlin and Condor.
> Clear as mud -right <G>!
> 
> Diana York  mailto:diana@...
> Hawk Mtn Papers www.hawkmtnartpapers.com
> 888-807-2248

Further to Diana's detailed info, there is some more data about paper
weights and thicknesses on Keith Cooper's excellent web site:
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/article_pages/imageprint_media_settings.html

HTH

Alan

Thank you for posting that informative link! I have printed the charts and
added to my paper info file for future reference.
If you really want to get confused, add basis weight into the mix - I had a
lengthy phone conversation with someone yesterday regarding that subject as
they were trying to equate papers to offset print paper values of pounds.
But you need to know which reference basis weight you are speaking of, and
there are a few.
Thanks again!

Diana York ~ Hawk Mountain Papers
Professional Inkjet Photo & Fine Art Papers
toll free 888-807-2248
www.hawkmtnartpapers.com <http://www.hawkmtnartpapers.com>

-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
alanrew42
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 8:13 AM
Further to Diana's detailed info, there is some more data about paper
weights and thicknesses on Keith Cooper's excellent web site:
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/article_pages/imageprint_media_settings.h
tml

HTH

Alan

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Diana York~Hawk
Mtn Papers" <diana@...> wrote:
>
> Thank you for posting that informative link! I have printed the
charts and
> added to my paper info file for future reference.
> If you really want to get confused, add basis weight into the mix -
I had a
> lengthy phone conversation with someone yesterday regarding that
subject as
> they were trying to equate papers to offset print paper values of
pounds.
> But you need to know which reference basis weight you are speaking
of, and
> there are a few.
> Thanks again!
> 
> Diana York ~ Hawk Mountain Papers
> Professional Inkjet Photo & Fine Art Papers
> toll free 888-807-2248
> www.hawkmtnartpapers.com <http://www.hawkmtnartpapers.com>

There's a good link for explaining the metric paper size system (A3,
A4 etc) here

http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/iso-paper.html

This covers A, B and C series paper sizes as well as envelope sizes,
the history of the ISO system and some 'Hints for North American paper
users'.

Regards,

Alan