Digital BW, The Print

Good Morning All;

I was at the PhotoExpo in NY last week specifically to check out 
alternate inks for b/w printing.

Have had great disappointments with the Cone Piezography system 
especially regards clogging problems and incompatibility with anything 
other than a really flat matte paper.

Have e-mailed/spoken with the MIS people and they at least (unlike 
Cone's group) were very upfront about the limitations of using their 
inks with the paper of my choosing (Epson's Premium Luster, or 
Semi-Gloss are both lovely, and most like the Ilford Pearl surface 
I've been using for years...)

Given the total failure of piezography I've taken to printing b/w 
using the color inkset on an Epson 1270; not a bad way to go, but far 
from perfect.

In any event, I had a long talk with, and eventually ordered supplies 
from the Lyson folks. They have started to sell a Small Gamut inkset; 
it differs from their quad black inkset in that it allows for some 
tonal adjustments, allowing for similar effects to printing on 
portriga rapid, or selenium toning prints for instance.
Moreover, they claim it's archival, and sell a nice semi-gloss paper 
(they call it Satin), is made by Hahnemule (sic) and which they claim 
is fully compatible.

Anybody out there have any experience using this system???
After a full year of frustration in my attempts to standardize b/w 
inkjet printing, reading the forums, talking to others I'm convinced 
that using a system, ie; paper and ink from the same manufacturere is 
the way to go...Though most people seem to be sold on either Cone or 
MIS inks it doesn't really work for me...

I switched from Cones Piezo BW to Lyson Small Gamut in my 1160 due to 
severe clogging problems (although I love the look of the Piezo BW
prints). So 
far no clogging and very good results with Lyson Standard Fine Art
Paper and 
Epson Photo Matte and SG inks; also pretty good with Epson Photo
paper; a 
pretty good glossy print. I tried a few other papers (Arches CP and
HP) but 
was not impressed. For me, I still prefer the tone and depth of
Cone's Piezo 
BW, but for now, I am happy with Lyson SG and no clogs. (I have also
tried 
MIS quad and Lyson neutral quad). I'm thinking of getting Cone's
Piezo BW 
for my 3000 which has larger print head size and larger cartridges. 

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., sturos@m... wrote:
> Good Morning All;
> 
> I was at the PhotoExpo in NY last week specifically to check out 
> alternate inks for b/w printing.
> 
> Have had great disappointments with the Cone Piezography system 
> especially regards clogging problems and incompatibility with
anything 
> other than a really flat matte paper.
> 
> Have e-mailed/spoken with the MIS people and they at least (unlike 
> Cone's group) were very upfront about the limitations of using
their 
> inks with the paper of my choosing (Epson's Premium Luster, or 
> Semi-Gloss are both lovely, and most like the Ilford Pearl surface 
> I've been using for years...)
> 
> Given the total failure of piezography I've taken to printing b/w 
> using the color inkset on an Epson 1270; not a bad way to go, but
far 
> from perfect.
> 
> In any event, I had a long talk with, and eventually ordered
supplies 
> from the Lyson folks. They have started to sell a Small Gamut
inkset; 
> it differs from their quad black inkset in that it allows for some 
> tonal adjustments, allowing for similar effects to printing on 
> portriga rapid, or selenium toning prints for instance.
> Moreover, they claim it's archival, and sell a nice semi-gloss
paper 
> (they call it Satin), is made by Hahnemule (sic) and which they
claim 
> is fully compatible.
> 
> Anybody out there have any experience using this system???
> After a full year of frustration in my attempts to standardize b/w 
> inkjet printing, reading the forums, talking to others I'm
convinced 
> that using a system, ie; paper and ink from the same manufacturere
is 
> the way to go...Though most people seem to be sold on either Cone
or 
> MIS inks it doesn't really work for me...

> Have e-mailed/spoken with the MIS people and they at least (unlike
> Cone's group) were very upfront about the limitations of using their
> inks with the paper of my choosing (Epson's Premium Luster, or
> Semi-Gloss are both lovely, and most like the Ilford Pearl surface
> I've been using for years...)

Funny, I always thought Cone was very upfront about gloss papers...they
don't work!  In fact many of them (ProPhoto Silk, Kodak Ultima Satin, Kodak
Pro Gloss and Satin Roll papers etc)...do work you just need to spray
afterwards to eliminate the bronzing and dusting...its quite simple.

> Given the total failure of piezography I've taken to printing b/w
> using the color inkset on an Epson 1270; not a bad way to go, but far
> from perfect.

Given YOUR total failure with PiezoBW...many of us have printed 1000's of
images with very little trouble.  Typically lists only contain the
problems...they are not reflective of over all success of a product.  I
don't usually, write in to say that I printed another 100 prints today
without a single clog. To date (after 7 months of printing from multiple
1160's) I've only had one time when I actually had to do an OEM flush...and
this was after 2 months without printing. I've gone months at a time without
anything that wouldn't clean with a single cleaning cycle in my 1160's.

I hope that the Lyson inks work for you.
 
Robert

On 11/5/01 10:26 AM, "jeffm@..." <jeffm@...> wrote:

> If you are a Newbie and just go to the IJM website, Piezography is
> touted as miracle. There is noting on the web site to indicate many of
> the products limitations / shortcomings. So you order the expensive
> starter kit and buy a dedicated printer with very high expectations.
> Once you get the kit and fire it up... if you run in to problems, you
> start reading and searching through the Piezography list. On that list
> is where Cone & Co. make there disclosures of the shortcomings /
> limitations of the product / process. It is a set up for potential major
> disappointment... hence customer dissatisfaction in some cases.

You will find the statement about Glossy papers on their website as well as
an extensive list of maintenance issues related to what to do when your
printer clogs.  I read extensive threads on this list (which was clearly
marked on their site) before I bought the inks.  I think there is plenty of
accessible info out there.


I think, if you take a step back, you will realize that you have unrealistic
marketing expectations.

"Ford Rangers are great except that you have to take them in every six
months for servicing and recalls and they won't tow anything over a
wheelbarrow, so hurry out and buy one today!"

Nobody, no matter what they sell, does that...including Epson!  Epson
"Archival" Matte...really!

Robert



----------------------
Robert Morrison
rmorrison@...

310-397-2704

4131 Bledsoe Ave.
Los Angeles, CA 90066

>
> Funny, I always thought Cone was very upfront about gloss papers...they
> don't work!  In fact many of them (ProPhoto Silk, Kodak Ultima Satin,
Kodak
> Pro Gloss and Satin Roll papers etc)...do work you just need to spray
> afterwards to eliminate the bronzing and dusting...its quite simple.
>
 I agree with you here. My sick printer which is now microbanding on PR just
printed two perfect prints on Ultima Satin. These two are for you Nij,
(kiss, and 3 glances) I just can't get decent prints out of PR at the
moment!

Julian

Robert Morrison wrote:

> Funny, I always thought Cone was very upfront about gloss papers...they
> don't work! 

I think the problem with Cone is:  

If you are a Newbie and just go to the IJM website, Piezography is
touted as miracle. There is noting on the web site to indicate many of
the products limitations / shortcomings. So you order the expensive
starter kit and buy a dedicated printer with very high expectations.
Once you get the kit and fire it up... if you run in to problems, you
start reading and searching through the Piezography list. On that list
is where Cone & Co. make there disclosures of the shortcomings /
limitations of the product / process. It is a set up for potential major
disappointment... hence customer dissatisfaction in some cases.

That was my experience.. and that is my 2 cents.

-Jeff

Hi,

I'm sorry to hear that you had such disappointment with Piezography.
However, I think that you are being unfair about them not being up-front
about their inks not being suitable for glossy papers.

Nevertheless... whilst many people are undoubtedly happy with Lyson SG, the
people I have been speaking to are not exactly impressed with them. Perhaps
this is the nature of things, that I should be talking to 'Piezographers'
(or potential ones) who have tried other systems and not been happy -
perhaps for the opposite reasons (don't want to print on glossy papers, no
shadow detail etc). FWIW, I have seen some rather nice prints from either
Lyson Quads or SG (can't remember, sorry) and they did indeed look nice and
shiny and glossy, but they did not have any shadow detail, and they did
suffer from metamerism... etc

All I am saying here is that Lyson SG may be the best system for you, for
your needs / requirements, but it might well come with it's own set of
issues that you may come to consider disadvantages.

And equally, there seem to be plenty of Piezo users out there who print on
Epson Photo paper and Kodak Ultima Satin etc and are very happy, albeit with
the proviso of adding a protective spray coat.

I wish you the best whichever system you choose to use ;)

Nij

> -----Original Message-----
> From: sturos@... [mailto:sturos@...]
> Good Morning All;
>
> I was at the PhotoExpo in NY last week specifically to check out
> alternate inks for b/w printing.
>
> Have had great disappointments with the Cone Piezography system
> especially regards clogging problems and incompatibility with anything
> other than a really flat matte paper.
>
> Have e-mailed/spoken with the MIS people and they at least (unlike
> Cone's group) were very upfront about the limitations of using their
> inks with the paper of my choosing (Epson's Premium Luster, or
> Semi-Gloss are both lovely, and most like the Ilford Pearl surface
> I've been using for years...)
>
> Given the total failure of piezography I've taken to printing b/w
> using the color inkset on an Epson 1270; not a bad way to go, but far
> from perfect.
>
> In any event, I had a long talk with, and eventually ordered supplies
> from the Lyson folks. They have started to sell a Small Gamut inkset;
> it differs from their quad black inkset in that it allows for some
> tonal adjustments, allowing for similar effects to printing on
> portriga rapid, or selenium toning prints for instance.
> Moreover, they claim it's archival, and sell a nice semi-gloss paper
> (they call it Satin), is made by Hahnemule (sic) and which they claim
> is fully compatible.
>
> Anybody out there have any experience using this system???
> After a full year of frustration in my attempts to standardize b/w
> inkjet printing, reading the forums, talking to others I'm convinced
> that using a system, ie; paper and ink from the same manufacturere is
> the way to go...Though most people seem to be sold on either Cone or
> MIS inks it doesn't really work for me...
>

Small gamut made beautiful tone prints, but has a lot of metamerism.
Also not available in bulk, and the price of cartridges is outrageous.
(IMHP). Try 45 Blue in photoshop as  a started point, in a color balance
adjustment layer.

Jerry




sturos@... wrote:

> 
> Good Morning All;
> 
> I was at the PhotoExpo in NY last week specifically to check out
> alternate inks for b/w printing.
> 
> Have had great disappointments with the Cone Piezography system
> especially regards clogging problems and incompatibility with anything
> other than a really flat matte paper.
> 
> Have e-mailed/spoken with the MIS people and they at least (unlike
> Cone's group) were very upfront about the limitations of using their
> inks with the paper of my choosing (Epson's Premium Luster, or
> Semi-Gloss are both lovely, and most like the Ilford Pearl surface
> I've been using for years...)
> 
> Given the total failure of piezography I've taken to printing b/w
> using the color inkset on an Epson 1270; not a bad way to go, but far
> from perfect.
> 
> In any event, I had a long talk with, and eventually ordered supplies
> from the Lyson folks. They have started to sell a Small Gamut inkset;
> it differs from their quad black inkset in that it allows for some
> tonal adjustments, allowing for similar effects to printing on
> portriga rapid, or selenium toning prints for instance.
> Moreover, they claim it's archival, and sell a nice semi-gloss paper
> (they call it Satin), is made by Hahnemule (sic) and which they claim
> is fully compatible.
> 
> Anybody out there have any experience using this system???
> After a full year of frustration in my attempts to standardize b/w
> inkjet printing, reading the forums, talking to others I'm convinced
> that using a system, ie; paper and ink from the same manufacturere is
> the way to go...Though most people seem to be sold on either Cone or
> MIS inks it doesn't really work for me...
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

How nice.... and how odd, respectively ;)

It's as if the printer knew what paper you were using <aaaahhhhhh
smoooooottthhhh>

Nij

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Julian Thomas [mailto:julianthomas@...]
> Sent: 05 November 2001 18:01
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Lyson SG Inks/Piezo Complaining
>
>
> >
> > Funny, I always thought Cone was very upfront about gloss papers...they
> > don't work!  In fact many of them (ProPhoto Silk, Kodak Ultima Satin,
> Kodak
> > Pro Gloss and Satin Roll papers etc)...do work you just need to spray
> > afterwards to eliminate the bronzing and dusting...its quite simple.
> >
>  I agree with you here. My sick printer which is now microbanding
> on PR just
> printed two perfect prints on Ultima Satin. These two are for you Nij,
> (kiss, and 3 glances) I just can't get decent prints out of PR at the
> moment!
>
> Julian
>

Epson 1160 - NOT Designed to print on thick papers! Don't print your wedding
photos with these - your marriage may last 50 years but these won't! etc.

Nij

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert Morrison [mailto:rmorrison@...]
> Sent: 05 November 2001 17:59
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Lyson SG Inks/Piezo Complaining
>
>
> On 11/5/01 10:26 AM, "jeffm@..." <jeffm@...> wrote:
>
> > If you are a Newbie and just go to the IJM website, Piezography is
> > touted as miracle. There is noting on the web site to indicate many of
> > the products limitations / shortcomings. So you order the expensive
> > starter kit and buy a dedicated printer with very high expectations.
> > Once you get the kit and fire it up... if you run in to problems, you
> > start reading and searching through the Piezography list. On that list
> > is where Cone & Co. make there disclosures of the shortcomings /
> > limitations of the product / process. It is a set up for potential major
> > disappointment... hence customer dissatisfaction in some cases.
>
> You will find the statement about Glossy papers on their website
> as well as
> an extensive list of maintenance issues related to what to do when your
> printer clogs.  I read extensive threads on this list (which was clearly
> marked on their site) before I bought the inks.  I think there is
> plenty of
> accessible info out there.
>
>
> I think, if you take a step back, you will realize that you have
> unrealistic
> marketing expectations.
>
> "Ford Rangers are great except that you have to take them in every six
> months for servicing and recalls and they won't tow anything over a
> wheelbarrow, so hurry out and buy one today!"
>
> Nobody, no matter what they sell, does that...including Epson!  Epson
> "Archival" Matte...really!
>
> Robert

Actually, I've been putting Museo 365gm and Eclipse 350gm through my 1160's
regularly without any problems.  Haven't gotten cocky yet with the Fine Art
425gm though.

Robert

On 11/5/01 1:27 PM, "Nij" <nigel@...> wrote:

> Epson 1160 - NOT Designed to print on thick papers! Don't print your wedding
> photos with these - your marriage may last 50 years but these won't! etc.
> 
> Nij
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Robert Morrison [mailto:rmorrison@...]
>> Sent: 05 November 2001 17:59
>> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Lyson SG Inks/Piezo Complaining
>> 
>> 
>> On 11/5/01 10:26 AM, "jeffm@..." <jeffm@...> wrote:
>> 
>>> If you are a Newbie and just go to the IJM website, Piezography is
>>> touted as miracle. There is noting on the web site to indicate many of
>>> the products limitations / shortcomings. So you order the expensive
>>> starter kit and buy a dedicated printer with very high expectations.
>>> Once you get the kit and fire it up... if you run in to problems, you
>>> start reading and searching through the Piezography list. On that list
>>> is where Cone & Co. make there disclosures of the shortcomings /
>>> limitations of the product / process. It is a set up for potential major
>>> disappointment... hence customer dissatisfaction in some cases.
>> 
>> You will find the statement about Glossy papers on their website
>> as well as
>> an extensive list of maintenance issues related to what to do when your
>> printer clogs.  I read extensive threads on this list (which was clearly
>> marked on their site) before I bought the inks.  I think there is
>> plenty of
>> accessible info out there.
>> 
>> 
>> I think, if you take a step back, you will realize that you have
>> unrealistic
>> marketing expectations.
>> 
>> "Ford Rangers are great except that you have to take them in every six
>> months for servicing and recalls and they won't tow anything over a
>> wheelbarrow, so hurry out and buy one today!"
>> 
>> Nobody, no matter what they sell, does that...including Epson!  Epson
>> "Archival" Matte...really!
>> 
>> Robert
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 

----------------------
Robert Morrison
rmorrison@...

310-397-2704

4131 Bledsoe Ave.
Los Angeles, CA 90066

Ahh yes - but I bet if you called Epson tech support and said you were
having problems feeding those papers they would say that or something
similar. And - you are using a paper-support of some type, yes?

You, and I know, that it does it... but if it doesn't (even with a support
sheet) - is that Epson's 'fault' or Piezo for not clearly stating that
whilst heavyweight art papers could be used they were not 'guaranteed' to
feed?????

Sorry, my british sense of humour (sarcasm - the lowest form of wit <but the
funniest>) creeping out ;)

Nij

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert G. Morrison [mailto:rmorrison@...]
> Sent: 06 November 2001 01:44
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Lyson SG Inks/Piezo Complaining
>
>
> Actually, I've been putting Museo 365gm and Eclipse 350gm through
> my 1160's
> regularly without any problems.  Haven't gotten cocky yet with
> the Fine Art
> 425gm though.
>
> Robert
>
> On 11/5/01 1:27 PM, "Nij" <nigel@...> wrote:
>
> > Epson 1160 - NOT Designed to print on thick papers! Don't print
> your wedding
> > photos with these - your marriage may last 50 years but these
> won't! etc.
> >
> > Nij
> >

>Epson 1160 - NOT Designed to print on thick papers! Don't print your wedding
>photos with these - your marriage may last 50 years but these won't! etc.
>
>Nij [snip]

What are good weight and thickness guidelines for reliable use with the 1160?

Sam

Why yes, I'm using the "Antonis Turbo Extreme Paper Feed Chute" custom
fabricated according to Antonis's exacting specifications in my own
fabrication facilities...does that void my waranty, Sir?

:-)

Robert

On 11/5/01 7:45 PM, "Nij" <nigel@...> wrote:

> Ahh yes - but I bet if you called Epson tech support and said you were
> having problems feeding those papers they would say that or something
> similar. And - you are using a paper-support of some type, yes?
> 
> You, and I know, that it does it... but if it doesn't (even with a support
> sheet) - is that Epson's 'fault' or Piezo for not clearly stating that
> whilst heavyweight art papers could be used they were not 'guaranteed' to
> feed?????
> 
> Sorry, my british sense of humour (sarcasm - the lowest form of wit <but the
> funniest>) creeping out ;)
> 
> Nij
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Robert G. Morrison [mailto:rmorrison@...]
>> Sent: 06 November 2001 01:44
>> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Lyson SG Inks/Piezo Complaining
>> 
>> 
>> Actually, I've been putting Museo 365gm and Eclipse 350gm through
>> my 1160's
>> regularly without any problems.  Haven't gotten cocky yet with
>> the Fine Art
>> 425gm though.
>> 
>> Robert
>> 
>> On 11/5/01 1:27 PM, "Nij" <nigel@...> wrote:
>> 
>>> Epson 1160 - NOT Designed to print on thick papers! Don't print
>> your wedding
>>> photos with these - your marriage may last 50 years but these
>> won't! etc.
>>> 
>>> Nij
>>> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 

----------------------
Robert Morrison
rmorrison@...

310-397-2704

4131 Bledsoe Ave.
Los Angeles, CA 90066

As mentioned previously, I'm putting Eclipse 350gm and Museo 365gm through
my 1160's daily.  Once you have used these heavy papers its hard to imagine
using anything else...the prints feel like...well...art...not some flimsy
thing you might have picked up from the photocopy machine. Contrary to my
previous funny post...I don't use a paper feed platform...I just take off
the platform that comes with the printer and give the paper a gentle nudge
when it sucks.  Actually, I have less problem with these two heavy papers
feeding on their own than the 250gm-300gm class papers (German Etching,
Photo Rag, Museo 250gm, etc.).  I was feeding 11x17 sheets of Eclipse and
12x18 sheets of Museo without any encouragement all last weekend.

Robert

On 11/5/01 8:03 PM, "Sam A. McCandless" <samcc@...> wrote:

>> Epson 1160 - NOT Designed to print on thick papers! Don't print your wedding
>> photos with these - your marriage may last 50 years but these won't! etc.
>> 
>> Nij [snip]
> 
> What are good weight and thickness guidelines for reliable use with the 1160?
> 
> Sam
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 

----------------------
Robert Morrison
rmorrison@...

310-397-2704

4131 Bledsoe Ave.
Los Angeles, CA 90066

I print 308gram PR without problems

Julian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam A. McCandless" <samcc@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 5:03 AM
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Lyson SG Inks/Piezo Complaining


> >Epson 1160 - NOT Designed to print on thick papers! Don't print your
wedding
> >photos with these - your marriage may last 50 years but these won't! etc.
> >
> >Nij [snip]
>
> What are good weight and thickness guidelines for reliable use with the
1160?
>
> Sam
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.

>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Sam,

I use a home-brew paper-support made from a plastic corrugated 'envelope
thickener' I received back with some uncut negs... I cut it into an
upside-down capital-T shape to just under the width of the paper I want to
feed, with just a thin vertical bar to support the top of the paper and
reduce weight on the support pushing it away from 'the right angle'.

I regularly feed 310gsm paper, though I typically will hand-hold the loading
process to be sure they go in straight - I'd recommend this with paper that
costs ?2 or more per sheet ;)  I have probably fed a maximmum of 330gsm with
this method, no problem at all. However, I think that if you ask Epson they
would say the upper limit was something like 220gsm, that the paper must be
smooth, etc etc

Sorry to all by the way, it wasn't my intention to make you all wonder if it
was impossible to feed thicker paper sheets - I was just trying to point out
that Epson desktop's are NOT designed for it, so any complaints to Epson
would undoubtedly receive a similar answer to the one I suggested, from tech
support.

But of course, Epson, like any other m'fer is not forced to list all the
things is can't do (or is not designed for) in their advertising. In the
context of the original thread, I think this was an appropriate thing to
point out ;)

Happy paper feeding,

Nij

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sam A. McCandless [mailto:samcc@...]
> Sent: 06 November 2001 04:03
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Lyson SG Inks/Piezo Complaining
>
>
> >Epson 1160 - NOT Designed to print on thick papers! Don't print
> your wedding
> >photos with these - your marriage may last 50 years but these won't! etc.
> >
> >Nij [snip]
>
> What are good weight and thickness guidelines for reliable use
> with the 1160?
>
> Sam

My 1160 takes 300 gsm Eclipse with no problems at all.

Jerry





"Sam A. McCandless" wrote:

> 
> >Epson 1160 - NOT Designed to print on thick papers! Don't print your wedding
> >photos with these - your marriage may last 50 years but these won't! etc.
> >
> >Nij [snip]
> 
> What are good weight and thickness guidelines for reliable use with the 1160?
> 
> Sam
> 
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